Re: Nitrates - help please !!!

[Guest guest]

I buy ham and turkey at Costco that is nitrate free, they also have nitrate

free bacon. I can't remember the names of them right now (I'm out or I'd check

on the name for you) I usually find it in the meat section, not in frozen

foods. You can buy a turkey breast or small ham and then slice it for

sandwiches.

[Guest guest]

I buy Applegate Farms, when I do, on occasion, consume deli meat. I've

found it in the standard deli section in Wegmans, in the nature's corner

market in Foodtown and I can get it at my local HFS.

-Lana

On 1/4/07, toreadpeoplehealthinfo@... <

toreadpeoplehealthinfo@...> wrote:

>

> Went to several of my local supermarkets to see what I could pick up to

> substitute this awful crap with and found nothing, NOTHING that had no

> nitrates in it.

>

[Guest guest]

We cook a big roast and slice it for sandwiches. Would something like

that work for them?

Am trying to find a tasty recipe for making my own balogna without the

" curing salts " but not having any luck.

Belinda

>

> I buy Applegate Farms, when I do, on occasion, consume deli meat. I've

> found it in the standard deli section in Wegmans, in the nature's corner

> market in Foodtown and I can get it at my local HFS.

>

> -Lana

>

> On 1/4/07, toreadpeoplehealthinfo@... <

> toreadpeoplehealthinfo@...> wrote:

> >

> > Went to several of my local supermarkets to see what I could pick

up to

> > substitute this awful crap with and found nothing, NOTHING that had no

> > nitrates in it.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I usually buy Applegate Farms as well, but was recently surprised to

read on the package something about the " natural nitrates that occur

from celery juice " or something like that. I was prompted to read the

package because of a thread (I'm pretty sure it was on this list) on

nitrates in hot dogs, and how infuriated people were at Applegate

Farms for including the substances that lead to nitrate consumption.

Sorry I can't be more specific; I just wanted to throw this out there

in case someone else knows more...to keep us all informed.

By the way, now that I'm becoming a mom, I was planning on buying

myself a meat slicer, then baking roasts/turkeys/chickens and slicing

them up myself. This might be overkill for a babysitting situation

unless you happen to like coldcuts yourself!!

-Tamara

>

> I buy Applegate Farms, when I do, on occasion, consume deli meat. I've

> found it in the standard deli section in Wegmans, in the nature's corner

> market in Foodtown and I can get it at my local HFS.

>

> -Lana

[Guest guest]

Thank you ALL angels for your advice, I'm heading out TOMORROW first thing,

hitting Costco and all the other stores, I'm buying ALL the brands you are

recommending and surely at least some of them will be liked by these kids!

But meanwhile I was doing some sleuthing on the web and found out that Nitrates,

which turn to Nitrites and then Nitrosamines - actually exist in almost every

thing we consume! Tap water ! Bottled water ! All veggies ! Some Fruits!

Ketchup! Soy sauce! Geez! You can't win for losing ! I'm a little mixed up

now. Gotta do more sleuthing, but thank you for all your advice on different

brands!

Angel

[Guest guest]

I just thought it might be helpful to point out that " Nitrate-free " is

a bit misleading, since what it really means is no nitrates were

added. Nitrates occur naturally as part of the curing process. The

problems that most people are trying to avoid are actually from the

development of nitrasamines, which is carcinogenic when food is cooked

at high temperatures. Nitrasamine content is lower with foods that

have been processed less, or use natural curing techniques (ie, no

added nitrates).

Here, check out this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curing_%28food_preservation%29

Ken

> >

> > I buy Applegate Farms, when I do, on occasion, consume deli meat.

I've

> > found it in the standard deli section in Wegmans, in the nature's

corner

> > market in Foodtown and I can get it at my local HFS.

> >

> > -Lana

>

[Guest guest]

Actually, they add nitrates in the curing process of " uncured " meats in

the " natural " form of celery juice, beets, and sea salt. The meat still

undertakes a " curing process " where the natural nitrates convert to

nitrites in enough quantity to prohibit the growth of certain bacteria,

in addition to sodiun-lactate, potasium-lactate, or a

lactate-starter-culture, which is added to prohibit the growth of

listeria.

These products by law cannot be labeled " cured " because no synthetic

nitrates were added, only the " naturally occuring " ones.

~Jan

www.blackberryridgellc.com <http://www.blackberryridgellc.com>

> > >

> > > I buy Applegate Farms, when I do, on occasion, consume deli meat.

> I've

> > > found it in the standard deli section in Wegmans, in the nature's

> corner

> > > market in Foodtown and I can get it at my local HFS.

> > >

> > > -Lana

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello again!

About the Nitrates...

This is for the girl who recommended a ham or turkey lunchmeat from Costco - I

couldn't find it !

You said it wasn't in the frozen foods section, but in the meats section and I'm

not sure if I just didn't see it or if my Costco doesn't carry it. You offered

to tell me which brand it is, if I needed to know - and I do, I would be

grateful if you would tell me the name.

I DID find some turkey breast cold cuts in the freezer section, by Butterball,

that does not show Nitrates/ites in the ingredients list but does say " other

ingredients equaling less than 2% added for taste. " Would anyone know if

Nitrates/ites are/could be considered additives for " taste " ?

I couldn't find any other brands in my local Trader Joe's or Safeway market

either ! Totally shocking since I don't exactly live out in the boonies and

should have a pretty extensive offering in these stores!

Thank you for all your help and suggestions so far!

Angel

[Guest guest]

Absolutely, Nitrates are also added to deli meats for taste and looks.

The 'pink' color comes from nitrates; one of the biggest problems in

'uncured' meats was getting a pink color instead of grey. They achieved

this with the addition of beet powder first. The beet powder added

color and some nitrates. Then found that there was enough naturally

occurring nitrates in some vegetables, especially celery juice/seed that

when combined with sea salt(another high nitrate substance) that it

would indeed create some of the 'pink' color we are used to with

synthetic nitrates. When that isn't enough they will add beet powder,

but more for the extra nitrates than color at this point.

So synthetic nitrates can be additives for taste or color.

~Jan

www.blackberryridgellc.com <http://www.blackberryridgellc.com>

--- In , <toreadpeoplehealthinfo@...>

wrote:

>

> Hello again!

>

> About the Nitrates...

>

> I DID find some turkey breast cold cuts in the freezer section, by

Butterball, that does not show Nitrates/ites in the ingredients list but

does say " other ingredients equaling less than 2% added for taste. "

Would anyone know if Nitrates/ites are/could be considered additives for

" taste " ?

> ...

>

> Thank you for all your help and suggestions so far!

>

> Angel

>

[Guest guest]

Angel,

Sorry you couldn't find the ham and turkey. I'm afraid I've sliced and packed

the meat for the freezer and don't have the packages any more. SORRY!

Although I know it's not what you were looking for, I do still have the pkg. to

the

bacon, it's Natural and I found the ham and turkey in the same section

as the bacon. At our Costco the meat is on the far back wall and in front of

it are other big coolers that hold chicken and fish, next to that is another

cooler with the bacon, ham, turkey and other specialty type prepackaged meats.

(These are the refrigerator sections that are open and do not have doors)

[Guest guest]

Thanks ,

I'll check one more time and see if I perhaps missed it.

Angel

Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:30 am (PST)

Angel,

Sorry you couldn't find the ham and turkey. I'm afraid I've sliced and packed

the meat for the freezer and don't have the packages any more. SORRY!

Although I know it's not what you were looking for, I do still have the pkg.

to the

bacon, it's Natural and I found the ham and turkey in the same section

as the bacon. At our Costco the meat is on the far back wall and in front of

it are other big coolers that hold chicken and fish, next to that is another

cooler with the bacon, ham, turkey and other specialty type prepackaged meats.

(These are the refrigerator sections that are open and do not have doors)

[Guest guest]

On 1/10/07, bellasol.organics <bellasol.organics@...> wrote:

> Absolutely, Nitrates are also added to deli meats for taste and looks.

The principal reason, however, that the nitrates are added is to

prevent botulism.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

On 1/8/07, Reitzig <kenneth.reitzig@...> wrote:

> I just thought it might be helpful to point out that " Nitrate-free " is

> a bit misleading, since what it really means is no nitrates were

> added. Nitrates occur naturally as part of the curing process. The

> problems that most people are trying to avoid are actually from the

> development of nitrasamines, which is carcinogenic when food is cooked

> at high temperatures.

It's my understanding that this conversion happens in the intestines,

regardless of what may happen in the food during cooking. Vitamin C

and various compounds in berries inhibit it.

By the way, I was just reading a blurb on Fuhrman's site about some

study suggesting that naturally occuring nitrates in vegetables are

responsible for a blood pressure lowering effect via nitric oxide

production.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

--- Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> By the way, I was just reading a blurb on Fuhrman's site about some

> study suggesting that naturally occurring nitrates in vegetables are

> responsible for a blood pressure lowering effect via nitric oxide

> production.

Would this include nitrates in green leafy vegetables like spinach?

How about processed meats with nitrates from celery juice?

And where do nitrites fit into this picture?

Are nitrites more prone to form nitrosamines than nitrates?

I guess Furhman's got at least a few good ideas [:-)

OK, just pass the meat and saturated fat, he'll never get it!

As far as NO, maybe all that NO I breath from the traffic driving into

work will help lower my blood pressure to counter-balance the rising

blood pressure caused by the crazy drivers out there

<driving may be hazardous to your health>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/13/2007 8:41:47 AM Central Standard Time,

chrismasterjohn@... writes:

> According to the above article, vegetables are a much better source of

> nitrate. Moreover, all the meats that are likely to be cured with

> nitrate -- bacon, deli meats, etc -- are the ones that are associated

> with cancer and are often totally or primarily responsible for

> associations observed with " red meat. "

A question comes to mind. Potassium nitrate was once widely used to

cure meats. I think that sodium nitrate is now used commercially instead. My

question, do vegetables have high potassium nitrate levels? What risks are there

if so, and which vegetables are most likely? Thanks. CR

[Guest guest]

,

> Would this include nitrates in green leafy vegetables like spinach?

> How about processed meats with nitrates from celery juice?

I don't know. I didn't look too deeply but it just caught my eye

while I was looking for something else. Here's the article:

http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/healthy-food-leafy-greens-and-blood-pressur\

e.html

According to this article below, nitrates primarily come from vegetables anyway:

==========

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/nutrition/DJ0974.html

It has been reported that people normally consume more nitrates from

their vegetable intake than from the cured meat products they eat.

Spinach, beets, radishes, celery, and cabbages are among the

vegetables that generally contain very high concentrations of nitrates

(J. Food Sci., 52:1632). The nitrate content of vegetables is affected

by maturity, soil conditions, fertilizer, variety, etc. It has been

estimated that 10 percent of the human exposure to nitrite in the

digestive tract comes from cured meats and 90 percent comes from

vegetables and other sources. Nitrates can be reduced to nitrites by

certain microorganisms present in foods and in the gastrointestinal

tract. This has resulted in nitrite toxicity in infants fed vegetables

with a high nitrate level. No evidence currently exists implicating

nitrite itself as a carcinogen.

===========

I cannot vouch for the objectivity of the above article, which seems

very pro-nitrate (perhaps justifiably so, perhaps not).

> And where do nitrites fit into this picture?

> Are nitrites more prone to form nitrosamines than nitrates?

I think it is nitrites that form nitrosamines, but nitrates can be

converted to nitrites by microorganisms in food or in the gut.

> I guess Furhman's got at least a few good ideas [:-)

> OK, just pass the meat and saturated fat, he'll never get it!

According to the above article, vegetables are a much better source of

nitrate. Moreover, all the meats that are likely to be cured with

nitrate -- bacon, deli meats, etc -- are the ones that are associated

with cancer and are often totally or primarily responsible for

associations observed with " red meat. "

Whether that's from nitrosamines or not is an open question I suppose.

Most of these meats are usually smoked, which introduces a plethora

of carcinogens.

So, I think there are much better sources of nitrate, meat, and

saturated fat than processed meats.

I would say, though, that if it's true that most nitrate comes from

vegetables it would seem prudent to risk an increase in nitrate

exposure rather than an increase in botulism toxin exposure.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

Yes, but the question was if they could be added for " taste " :

<toreadpeoplehealthinfo@...> wrote:

" I DID find some turkey breast cold cuts in the freezer section, by

Butterball,

that does not show Nitrates/ites in the ingredients list but does

say " other

ingredients equaling less than 2% added for taste. " Would anyone know

if

Nitrates/ites are/could be considered additives for " taste " ? "

>

> > Absolutely, Nitrates are also added to deli meats for taste and

looks.

>

> The principal reason, however, that the nitrates are added is to

> prevent botulism.

>

> Chris

> --

> The Truth About Cholesterol

> Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

> http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

>

[Guest guest]

Regarding the bacon - I talked to the buyers and they are not carrying

it anymore - at least in my area of Georgia. They had promised to keep it

through the winter months - but I guess the sales were insufficient and too much

was wasted. There is such a short shelf life on it. You may find this brand of

sausage still though.

My best bet for the bacon is Trader Joe's.

Carol S.

[Guest guest]

I have studied the curing process extensively. I have taken the

UW-cured meats and sausage course and am a UW Extension Master Food

Preserver. To provide the healthiest meat from my farm, I am in the

process of building a micro USDA meat processing plant on my farm. I am

not a meat scientist, and there is much more to learn. I have put

together the following information for you, all documented off the web,

where you can learn more. I tried to put the curing process in

chronological order so it is easier to follow, and answered a few

questions.

First, here is a quote from Sally Fallon's Article " Nasty,

Brutish and Short " off the WAPF site:

" Normally, according to Stefansson, the diet consisted of dried or

cured meat " eaten with fat, " namely the highly saturated cavity and back

slab fat that could be easily separated from the animal " .

Perhaps the answer to our nitrate concerns is to eat enough super

healthy fat along with our traditional cured meats for a protective

effect.

>> Would this include nitrates in green leafy vegetables like spinach?

>I don't know. I didn't look too deeply but it just caught my eye

>while I was looking for something else. Here's the article:

>http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/healthy-food-leafy-greens-and-bloo\

d-pressur\

e.html

<http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/healthy-food-leafy-greens-and-bloo\

d-pressur\e.html>

Something to note:

In the above mentioned article, the sodium nitrate was not consumed from

vegetables, but as " dietary supplements of sodium nitrate " . In

fact, they later said: " there isn't all that much nitrate in those

vegetables. " Too get as much nitrate as was given in the study, you

would have to eat about half a pound of spinach, " he said. " As a

practical issue, it's hard to ingest 250 grams of nitrate-rich foods. "

Although it wouldn't be hard for me to eat a half a pound of spinach;

the point is the research used Sodium Nitrate.

> How about processed meats with nitrates from celery juice?

From an Italian processor:

" Chr Hansen has now developed a new natural cure for manufacturers

to achieve the traditional flavour, colour, and stability of cured meats

without adding synthetic nitrates or nitrites. The company's natural

ingredient and meat culture can be used in place of nitrite to naturally

cure meats.

Naturally occurring nitrates are converted by the culture to nitrite and

thus naturally cure the meat. Since this curing process utilises

naturally occurring nitrates, the label declaration becomes consumer

friendly.

In the US for example, the finished product can be labelled as 'uncured'

in accordance with labelling regulations from the USDA. If nitrites and

nitrates are not added to a traditional cured meat product, the product

must be labelled as 'uncured' (9CFR317.17).

" These natural ingredients offer the same functionality as traditional

curing methods, and provides consumers with a natural choice, " said

Supnet-, regional industry manager for meat and prepared

foods at Chr Hansen " .

http://www.foodnavigator.com/news/ng.asp?id=67304

<http://www.foodnavigator.com/news/ng.asp?id=67304>

And from Niman Ranch:

" Despite USDA regulations, it's probably more accurate to say that

our uncured products are naturally cured. Instead of adding nitrate or

nitrite chemicals, we use celery juice, a source of naturally occurring

sodium nitrate. During processing, the nitrate in celery juice is

consumed by lacto bacteria, anaerobic organisms similar to the friendly

bacteria in yogurt that like a salty environment. As the natural curing

process occurs, the nitrate in celery juice is consumed by the lacto

bacteria and converted, first to nitrite, then to nitrous oxide,

dissipating into the atmosphere. As a result, only minute amounts of

nitrate remain in the meat. But the nitrate has done its job: inhibiting

bacteria, helping meat to retain its pink color, and adding depth of

flavor " .

http://www.nimanranch.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/NimanRanch-Niman\

RanchStore-Site/en_US/-/USD/ViewApplication-DisplayStaticContent;pgid=xK\

vgm0fCG5o00087wRNcTivc0000RubVhlY4;sid=kDp2c6RVtHV2YuHNkTC2264UmULCjq0tJ\

Mc=?Page=content%2FFAQs & Light=#Q23

<http://www.nimanranch.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/NimanRanch-Nima\

nRanchStore-Site/en_US/-/USD/ViewApplication-DisplayStaticContent;pgid=x\

Kvgm0fCG5o00087wRNcTivc0000RubVhlY4;sid=kDp2c6RVtHV2YuHNkTC2264UmULCjq0t\

JMc=?Page=content%2FFAQs & Light=#Q23>

How much nitrite or nitrous oxide is actually dissipated into the

atmosphere, and how much remains in the product is not known. Or, is it

the same amount that dissipates into the atmosphere when sodium nitrite

is added, with out the celery? BTW, Sodium lactate is being added to

most `cured' meat for the listeria control. Some of this is a

labeling issue. Nitrates and nitrites are still doing the work, but

they are labeled differently. So if you don't add synthetic sodium

nitrate,or nitrite, you must label it 'uncured'. What we don't have

is a study showing what the different residual nitrite and nitrous-oxide

levels are in the two different types of curing.

>> And where do nitrites fit into this picture?

>> Are nitrites more prone to form nitrosamines than nitrates?

>I think it is nitrites that form nitrosamines, but nitrates can be

>converted to nitrites by microorganisms in food or in the gut.

Actually, Nitrates (NaNO3) convert to nitrites (NaNO2): " When

nitrate is used, it must be first converted to nitrite by microorganisms

present in the meat "

http://www.uwex.edu/ces/flp/meatscience/sausage.html#ingred

<http://www.uwex.edu/ces/flp/meatscience/sausage.html#ingred>

" Nitrites are the more active form. In processed meats, nitrites are

reduced to nitric oxides, which in turn react with heme pigments in

muscle tissue, forming a stable red color (i.e. they keep cured meats

pink rather than turning brown). Nitrites also give rise to some of the

cured meat flavors " . http://food.oregonstate.edu/c/nitrite.html

<http://food.oregonstate.edu/c/nitrite.html>

" In a series of normal reactions, nitrite is converted to nitric

oxide. Nitric oxide combines with myoglobin, the pigment responsible for

the natural red color of uncured meat. They form nitric oxide myoglobin,

which is a deep red color (as in uncooked dry sausage) that changes to

the characteristic bright pink normally associated with cured and smoked

meat (such as wieners and ham) when heated during the smoking

process " .

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/nutrition/DJ0974.html

<http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/nutrition/DJ0974.html>

" Nitrite exerts its antibotulinal effect in two different ways: it

can form undissociated nitrous acid (HNO2), which is able to pass the

ion barrier of bacterial cell wall and disrupt the function of iron and

sulfur containing enzymes (Pierson and Smoot, 1987). In heat treated

products, nitrite forms the Perigo Type factor (PTF) which is inhibitory

to C. botulinum (Perigo et al., 1967; Christiansen et al., 1973). The

antibotulinal effect of nitrite is enhanced by an increase in NaCl

concentration and a decrease in pH " .

http://ethesis.helsinki.fi/julkaisut/ela/elint/vk/hyytia-trees/2luku.htm\

l

<http://ethesis.helsinki.fi/julkaisut/ela/elint/vk/hyytia-trees/2luku.ht\

ml>

When subjected to intense heat, and in the presence of (especially

secondary) amines, nitrites decompose to form n-nitrosamines. A classic

example of formation of nitrosamines is in the frying of bacon.

http://food.oregonstate.edu/c/nitrite.html

<http://food.oregonstate.edu/c/nitrite.html>

" Not all cured meat products contain nitrosamines; when present,

they usually are in very minute amounts

The effects of heating meat products cured with nitrite have been

investigated. The previously cited study, " Effect of Frying and Other

Cooking Conditions on Nitrosopyrrolidine Formation in Bacon, " by J.W.

Pensabene, et al., indicated that when bacon was fried at 210 degrees F

for 10 minutes (raw), 210 degrees F for 105 minutes (medium well), 275

degrees F for 10 minutes (very light), or 275 degrees F for 30 minutes

(medium well), no conclusive evidence of nitrosopyrrolidine could be

found. But when bacon was fried at 350 degrees F for 6 minutes (medium

well), 400 degrees F for 4 minutes (medium well), or 400 degrees F for

10 minutes (burned), nitrosopyrrolidine formation was conclusively found

at 10, 17, and 19 parts per billion.

Thus, ***well done or burned bacon probably is potentially more

hazardous than less well done bacon***. Bacon cooked by microwave has

less nitrosamine than fried bacon. Consumers should cook bacon properly.

The same study and one by W. Fiddler, et al. (J. Food Sci., 39:1070,

1974) have shown that fat cook-out or drippings usually contain more

nitrosopyrrolidine than the bacon contains.

It is unknown at what levels, if any, nitrosamines are formed in humans

after they eat cured meat products, or what constitutes a dangerous

level in meat or in humans. Nitrosamines are found very infrequently in

all cured products except overcooked bacon, as discussed above " .

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/nutrition/DJ0974.html

<http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/nutrition/DJ0974.html> (I

added the *** above)

" Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is also added to bacon, along with

nitrites, to serve as an antioxidant (to prevent the nitrites oxidizing

to nitrosamines) " . http://food.oregonstate.edu/c/nitrite.html

<http://food.oregonstate.edu/c/nitrite.html>

NOTE: BEER sometimes has detectable nitrosamines formed during roasting

of barley malt (Havery, 1985) http://food.oregonstate.edu/c/nitrite.html

<http://food.oregonstate.edu/c/nitrite.html>

Although there is some evidence that n-nitrosamines can form

spontaneously in the body, it is generally accepted that processed meat

(source of free amines) that is subjected to intense heat is the main

risk. (Nitrate that comes in your spinach is not likely to be a

significant source of nitrosamines.)

http://food.oregonstate.edu/c/nitrite.html

<http://food.oregonstate.edu/c/nitrite.html>

The Meat Smoking and Curing FAQ11: Some prepared baby food vegetables

contain large (>250 ppm) concentrations of nitrates (2), which may be a

significant exposure (see below).3453 (6)718speculation without heating,

nitrosamines are generally not recovered from foods that have not been

fried (1) 9(link to http://www.aob.org/aob/glossary.html

<http://www.aob.org/aob/glossary.html> )

http://food.oregonstate.edu/c/nitrite.html

<http://food.oregonstate.edu/c/nitrite.html>

I hope this was helpful!

Jan

[Guest guest]

On 1/13/07, craicker@... <craicker@...> wrote:

> A question comes to mind. Potassium nitrate was once widely used to

> cure meats. I think that sodium nitrate is now used commercially instead. My

> question, do vegetables have high potassium nitrate levels? What risks are

> there

> if so, and which vegetables are most likely? Thanks. CR

I don't know anything more than I've posted, although the active

factor is the nitrate, and the sodium and/or potasium I think is just

a tagalong. If you put either in solution, the sodium and potassium

just dissociate.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

--- Jan <bellasol.organics@...> wrote:

> I have studied the curing process extensively...

Jan,

Thanks for sharing your time and good knowledge on this subject.

I don't eat much processed meat, but I do like bacon, hot dogs, and

sausage once in a while. Sounds like the key to minimize any

potential harm from possible nitrosamine formation is to consume these

foods with other foods that have vitamin C or other antioxidants -

such as sausage with sauerkraut or hot dogs with mustard. And when

cooking bacon, use low heat and don't cook it to a crisp - though I

must admit to liking crispy bacon, which probably also has loads of

nasty heterocyclic amines as well

How can our taste buds be so wrong?

Hmmm.... maybe crispy bacon with some goji berries on the side

.... just once in a while.

<we don't live forever>

<craving some crispy bacon now>

[Guest guest]

> Sounds like the key to minimize any

> potential harm from possible nitrosamine formation is to consume these

> foods with other foods that have vitamin C or other antioxidants -

> such as sausage with sauerkraut or hot dogs with mustard. And when

> cooking bacon, use low heat and don't cook it to a crisp - though I

> must admit to liking crispy bacon, which probably also has loads of

> nasty heterocyclic amines as well

>

> How can our taste buds be so wrong?

>

> Hmmm.... maybe crispy bacon with some goji berries on the side

> ... just once in a while.

> <we don't live forever>

>

> <craving some crispy bacon now>

>

, isn't it interesting how again, the mainstream has it backwards?

Instead of crisping the bacon to get rid of every drop of fat, we find

out it's better to leave it on there! I too, got used to nice crunchy

bacon. Once we started using our own, I was concerned about the

nutrients in the fat, like Vitamin A, D, E, and K(?), going down the

drain. Now I'll really make an effort to keep it less crisp. At least

with pastured, organic bacon you're getting a nutrient dense food that

we've had for at least two thousand years! How about that morning OJ

for the vitamin C? Also, I've been wondering about the Vitamin C

content of the meat. I know horses make their own vitamin C until they

get older (that's the secret ingredient in " Senior " horse feed), but

where do they store it?, and do the other animals store it similarly?

I'm still searching for these answers.

Jan

[Guest guest]

Thanks Chris. CR

In a message dated 1/13/2007 1:32:26 PM Central Standard Time,

chrismasterjohn@... writes:

> On 1/13/07, craicker@... <craicker@...> wrote:

>

> > A question comes to mind. Potassium nitrate was once widely used to

> > cure meats. I think that sodium nitrate is now used commercially instead.

> My

> > question, do vegetables have high potassium nitrate levels? What risks are

> > there

> > if so, and which vegetables are most likely? Thanks. CR

>

> I don't know anything more than I've posted, although the active

> factor is the nitrate, and the sodium and/or potasium I think is just

> a tagalong. If you put either in solution, the sodium and potassium

> just dissociate.

>

> Chris

[Guest guest]

--- Jan <bellasol.organics@...> wrote:

> , isn't it interesting how again, the mainstream has it

> backwards? Instead of crisping the bacon to get rid of every drop of

> fat, we find out it's better to leave it on there! I too, got used

> to nice crunchy bacon. Once we started using our own, I was

> concerned about the nutrients in the fat, like Vitamin A, D, E, and

> K(?), going down the drain.

Jan,

The computers ate my reply yesterday, so I'll try again.

The few times I've made bacon over the last several months, I cooked

the bacon at low heat to maybe medium well done and then scrambled

some eggs in the left-over bacon grease. I like the eggs that way,

but all that extra fat in the eggs seems to give my 9 yo daughter a

tummy ache. And now she won't eat the eggs that way. You can also

pour off the bacon grease and save it for use with cooking other

foods, like beans (Southern cooking style - but you probably know this

already).

> Now I'll really make an effort to keep it less crisp. At least

> with pastured, organic bacon you're getting a nutrient dense food

> that we've had for at least two thousand years!

> How about that morning OJ for the vitamin C?

I like OJ, but I don't drink it because of the high fructose dose.

I'd still like to loose another 20 pounds (I've lost about 30 pounds

over the last year and a half) - so I try to eat fairly low carb.

However, a little bit of OJ - maybe half a cup - shouldn't be too bad

on the fructose dose and would provide about 62 mg of vitamin C

according to the USDA (and about 10 g of sugars).

Adding foods with vitamin C and other antioxidants to compliment bacon

and scrambled eggs should also help to minimize problems from eating

oxidized fats from the cooked bacon fat and eggs. Diced peppers and

onions in the eggs and melons and/or citrus on the side should be good

in this respect.

> Also, I've been wondering about the Vitamin C content of the meat.

> I know horses make their own vitamin C until they get older (that's

> the secret ingredient in " Senior " horse feed), but where do they

> store it?, and do the other animals store it similarly?

>

> I'm still searching for these answers.

The only meat that made the WHF vitamin C list was calf's liver, which

they rate as a " very good " source and show 35 mg from a 4 oz serving:

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient & dbid=109

Ground lamb and beef show O mg of vitamin C per 100 g according to the

USDA - although these measurements are likely to be from

grain-finished animals. You might have to go to France to check on

the horse meat. (where's Furbish when we need him?

[Guest guest]

,

> > How about that morning OJ for the vitamin C?

> I like OJ, but I don't drink it because of the high fructose dose.

> I'd still like to loose another 20 pounds (I've lost about 30 pounds

> over the last year and a half) - so I try to eat fairly low carb.

> However, a little bit of OJ - maybe half a cup - shouldn't be too bad

> on the fructose dose and would provide about 62 mg of vitamin C

> according to the USDA (and about 10 g of sugars).

How about an orange instead? An orange is much more nutritious than a

glass of orange juice, has much less fructose, and will, unlike orange

juice, contribute a little bit to the satiety value of your meal. If

you're watching your weight, you'd be much better off with the orange.

Chris

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