Re: Depressed -- what to do? - go back to armour?

[Guest guest]

Let's do some digging... you said that the tests showed low Free T4 and high Free T3.. that suggests an imbalance BUT.. how long before you had the blood draw did you take your meds? The labs may have been reading the free T3 that was still in your system from dosing and not the Free T3 in your system due to conversion.... that would mean that your dose is still too low (low Free T4) and not knowing for sure if your natural conversion is adequate.

Tell me about when you are taking stuff...

When do you take the thyroid, how many times per day? Do you swallow, empty stomach or not? Or do you take it sublingually?

When are you taking adrenal, once or more per day? Do you swallow it or take it sublingually?

When do you take the iron in relation to the thyroid?

You don't actually want the Frees to 'balance' most folks seem to feel the best with the TSH around 1.0 or a bit less, Free T4 about mid range or a tad higher.... Free T3 at the high end of the range or a tad higher...

The bottle of 1 1/2 grain will have an expiration date on them, check it - the manufacturer's exp. date, not the pharmacy's.... as long as the bottle has been closed tightly and kept at room temp, out of sun light... they should be good at least until the expiration date. If prescription was rebottled by the pharmacist and put in a new bottle with a label, the expiration date will automatically be 1 year from the date the prescription was filled. So then we'd be guessing.

Don't worry about being long.. the more info you give the better.

There are some things that some of us have found we need to do.. it varies from person to person you just have to find out what works for you...

Sublingual dosing (placing the tab under your tongue) increases your absorption rate and leaves a lot more flexibility with meals and other supplements.

Multiple dosing throughout the day evens out the T3 that hits your body at any one time, keeping levels from dropping low or spiking high. T3 is 95% used up 4 hours after you take it (either as Cytomel or natural thyroid) So by dosing all at once you get the great surge of T3 and then drop down to only your body's conversion the rest of the day... If you heart is ailing.. that can be a greater strain on it.. Personally... I find that multidosing through the day makes me feel MUCH better.

Have you been able to track your basals ( www.thyrophoenix.com/self_monitor.htm ) to see how your body is doing? Before the synthetics came to be and the testing, patients were treated based on symptoms and basals. It's a great way to keep track of how your metabolic rate is doing, so a great way to see how your body is reacting to your meds, and in adjusting your meds. You can monitor yourself between labs.

You had a jump from 1 1/2 grains to 2 1/4, was that jump made all at once? It's possible that that was too great a jump for you all at once... your body can react badly to increases that are too high (and also to increases that are done too close together)

How soon are your next labs?

I've been self medicating for over two years now.. It was the scariest thing I ever did, but it was the only choice that I had (no insurance, no money for docs and labs - needed over a grand) so I just did it... Now I feel it was absolutely the BEST thing I have done for myself. I self-monitored and slowly adjusted my dosage up. I started out with increases about 6 weeks apart... a couple of times it was 12 weeks, I listened to what my body was telling me. I had a bit of trouble getting up to 3 grain, got hyper twice and backed off, the third time I did just fine... I'm now considering trying 3 1/4 grain... not sure though. My basals are fine, I'm still improving.... I may not rock the boat. I take mine sublingually, 1/2 grain doses, six times a day... That seems to be what my body wants.. that may change... I don't know, but for now it's what my body needs. I had RAI to kill my gland 15 years ago... so I'm totally dependant on what I'm taking...

What ever you decide to do.. we're here to help... As far as the Armour that you have... I'd check the dates on the larger pills and use those up first... keep filling the prescription on time and stock pile the pills.. With splitting and such you'll be able to use them and will not be wasting money. Money is scarce for many of us...

For splitting, you can get a pill splitter... or, what I do, is use a single edged razor blade... I quarter most of my pills for multi-dosing.. and cut my multi-vitamins in to eights.. so I can take a piece every time I eat...

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 04:38:47 -0000 "Debbie" writes:

My whole system is so messed up, I'm not even sure what to do next.Am hypo due to RAI for Graves 8 years ago. 4 years ago, I addedcytomel to the synthroid and immediately noticed the difference andfelt better for a few months. Dr. adjusted dosage based on TSH anddropped me to .112 synthroid + 10 cytomel. Continued to have problems so switched to 1.5 of armour -- within amonth, all symptoms were resolved. But of course it wouldn't last. Upped to 2.25 grains and felt great for 2 months, then had lots ofproblems. Tests showed low FT4 and high FT3. Went with the advice of someothers and tried to get both #s more in balance. Since I was havinghorrible hair loss (which I'd previously only had with low FT4) andheart palps (assuming due to the high FT3), we thought this was theright direction.It has been a nightmare over the past two years of these adjustments.Numbers finally got good, but I still felt like crap. Testedadrenals and they were messed up, so have been taking nutri-meds on myown for about a month, altho I don't know if at the right amt. Alsotaking iron for low ferritin. I am so depressed, still having hair loss, still no sex drive, stillno ability to really feel any joy or happiness, still no feeling in mymuscles, plus heart palps.I want to go back to all armour, but am scared because that is when somany of the problems really kicked in. I'm supposed to go back formore blood tests soon (am currently on .137 T4 + 1 grain armour), butdon't see the point. Already have wasted so much money on these teststhat we make adjustments based on -- and feel no better. Plus if Idon't feel better this time, my dr wants to refer me on to an endobecause of my suppressed TSH which I certainly don't want to do.I counted up and I should have 194 1 grain tablets available until myprescription runs out. Also have 36 1 1/2 grains from April of 03,but wonder if they would still be as potent. How should I go about this if I take the plunge? (None of my otherself-treating decisions have worked out so I don't have a lot ofconfidence!) Should I up to 2 grains and up from there? I'm prettylost and so tired of living this way.I'm sorry it's so long -- it seems I try to put my whole life historyin one little post. Thanks for any input - Debbie

[Guest guest]

Topper - Thanks for your very indepth reply.

2 years ago when I took those tests on armour, I took the armour 2-3

hours before the test. I've learned a lot since then and have been

taking my armour after the bloodwork. So I know what you mean about

the Ft3 # probably not being accurate back then.

I'd always swallowed my armour, but about 3-4 weeks ago -- since

reading all the posts here -- have switched to sublingual. I split my

dose and do one about 9:00 am and one about 3:00. (I've been taking

the synthroid at 9:00 too, but hopefully won't be on synthroid much

longer!!)

I've been taking 1 nutri-med adrenal when I get up, but then have

breakfast right after. Then I've been taking another at lunchtime.

For some reason, I haven't switched to sublingual yet with these --

tried it once, but there was something about the flavor. Perhaps I

just need to try it again!

I've been taking one iron pill at lunch and one at supper. Supper is

also when I take my multi-vitamin. Also have been taking extra

Vitamin C and B5 for my adrenals.

My husband and I did a lot of talking today and we're both really

ready to try the armour again. It's been hard for me to get over the

" can't let the FT3 get over the range " philosophy -- But I think I'm

there!

Since RAI, my TSH has pretty much always been suppressed on meds so I

know that's never been accurate as far as how I felt. So what's the

chance that the Free #s are accurate as far as showing how my body's

actually using the thyroid hormone. I'm so tired of wasting money on

labs and adjusting based on them, and never feeling any better. Doing

this little juggling game of armour and synthroid, trying to get a

good combo, is wearing me out.

So at this point, I'm ready to chuck the thyroid blood tests, switch

back to armour and go by symptoms and temp. When I was originally on

armour and started having so many problems, I had no idea about

adrenals or iron. I'm hoping that addressing these problems will help

me tolerate the increases in the armour.

Yes, back when I went from 1.5 to 2.25 grains of armour, it was in one

big jump. So that very possibly was too big of a change at one time

and my body reacted negatively.

I've been trying to do the temp with a regular digital thermometer we

had, but I don't know if it's very accurate. I couldn't find a

mercury thermometer, but did find a " basal digital thermometer " today.

It says it measures the basal body temp to identify ovulation, etc.

Would this work?

The 1 1/2 grains I still have were rebottled so I don't know what the

expiration would be. I got them in April 03, so I'm definetely over a

year later. Don't know if I should chance it, but if I don't use

them, it would really shorten the time I'd have to try this before I'd

need to find a dr or try ordering from Mexico.

I just know that I've never felt as good as I did for those 2 months

on 2.25 grains and I think I then blamed the armour dose for some

other problems I had. I am so ready to be feeling good again. I have

to really watch myself to go slow. Patience isn't my best virtue, but

I don't want to backslide any more than I have.

Thank you for all your help. I so appreciate it.

Debbie

> Let's do some digging... you said that the tests showed low Free T4 and

> high Free T3.. that suggests an imbalance BUT.. how long before you had

> the blood draw did you take your meds? The labs may have been

reading the

> free T3 that was still in your system from dosing and not the Free T3 in

> your system due to conversion.... that would mean that your dose is

still

> too low (low Free T4) and not knowing for sure if your natural

conversion

> is adequate.

>

> Tell me about when you are taking stuff...

> When do you take the thyroid, how many times per day? Do you swallow,

> empty stomach or not? Or do you take it sublingually?

> When are you taking adrenal, once or more per day? Do you swallow it or

> take it sublingually?

> When do you take the iron in relation to the thyroid?

>

> You don't actually want the Frees to 'balance' most folks seem to feel

> the best with the TSH around 1.0 or a bit less, Free T4 about mid range

> or a tad higher.... Free T3 at the high end of the range or a tad

> higher...

>

> The bottle of 1 1/2 grain will have an expiration date on them, check it

> - the manufacturer's exp. date, not the pharmacy's.... as long as the

> bottle has been closed tightly and kept at room temp, out of sun

light...

> they should be good at least until the expiration date. If prescription

> was rebottled by the pharmacist and put in a new bottle with a

label, the

> expiration date will automatically be 1 year from the date the

> prescription was filled. So then we'd be guessing.

>

> Don't worry about being long.. the more info you give the better.

>

> There are some things that some of us have found we need to do.. it

> varies from person to person you just have to find out what works for

> you...

>

> Sublingual dosing (placing the tab under your tongue) increases your

> absorption rate and leaves a lot more flexibility with meals and other

> supplements.

> Multiple dosing throughout the day evens out the T3 that hits your body

> at any one time, keeping levels from dropping low or spiking high. T3 is

> 95% used up 4 hours after you take it (either as Cytomel or natural

> thyroid) So by dosing all at once you get the great surge of T3 and then

> drop down to only your body's conversion the rest of the day... If you

> heart is ailing.. that can be a greater strain on it.. Personally... I

> find that multidosing through the day makes me feel MUCH better.

> Have you been able to track your basals (

> www.thyrophoenix.com/self_monitor.htm ) to see how your body is doing?

> Before the synthetics came to be and the testing, patients were treated

> based on symptoms and basals. It's a great way to keep track of how your

> metabolic rate is doing, so a great way to see how your body is reacting

> to your meds, and in adjusting your meds. You can monitor yourself

> between labs.

>

>

> You had a jump from 1 1/2 grains to 2 1/4, was that jump made all at

> once? It's possible that that was too great a jump for you all at

once...

> your body can react badly to increases that are too high (and also to

> increases that are done too close together)

>

> How soon are your next labs?

>

> I've been self medicating for over two years now.. It was the scariest

> thing I ever did, but it was the only choice that I had (no

insurance, no

> money for docs and labs - needed over a grand) so I just did it... Now I

> feel it was absolutely the BEST thing I have done for myself. I

> self-monitored and slowly adjusted my dosage up. I started out with

> increases about 6 weeks apart... a couple of times it was 12 weeks, I

> listened to what my body was telling me. I had a bit of trouble getting

> up to 3 grain, got hyper twice and backed off, the third time I did just

> fine... I'm now considering trying 3 1/4 grain... not sure though. My

> basals are fine, I'm still improving.... I may not rock the boat. I take

> mine sublingually, 1/2 grain doses, six times a day... That seems to be

> what my body wants.. that may change... I don't know, but for now it's

> what my body needs. I had RAI to kill my gland 15 years ago... so I'm

> totally dependant on what I'm taking...

>

> What ever you decide to do.. we're here to help... As far as the Armour

> that you have... I'd check the dates on the larger pills and use

those up

> first... keep filling the prescription on time and stock pile the

pills..

> With splitting and such you'll be able to use them and will not be

> wasting money. Money is scarce for many of us...

>

> For splitting, you can get a pill splitter... or, what I do, is use a

> single edged razor blade... I quarter most of my pills for

multi-dosing..

> and cut my multi-vitamins in to eights.. so I can take a piece every

time

> I eat...

>

>

>

> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 04:38:47 -0000 " Debbie " <sdlentz2@y...> writes:

>

> My whole system is so messed up, I'm not even sure what to do next.

>

> Am hypo due to RAI for Graves 8 years ago. 4 years ago, I added

> cytomel to the synthroid and immediately noticed the difference and

> felt better for a few months. Dr. adjusted dosage based on TSH and

> dropped me to .112 synthroid + 10 cytomel.

>

> Continued to have problems so switched to 1.5 of armour -- within a

> month, all symptoms were resolved. But of course it wouldn't last.

> Upped to 2.25 grains and felt great for 2 months, then had lots of

> problems.

>

> Tests showed low FT4 and high FT3. Went with the advice of some

> others and tried to get both #s more in balance. Since I was having

> horrible hair loss (which I'd previously only had with low FT4) and

> heart palps (assuming due to the high FT3), we thought this was the

> right direction.

>

> It has been a nightmare over the past two years of these adjustments.

> Numbers finally got good, but I still felt like crap. Tested

> adrenals and they were messed up, so have been taking nutri-meds on my

> own for about a month, altho I don't know if at the right amt. Also

> taking iron for low ferritin.

>

> I am so depressed, still having hair loss, still no sex drive, still

> no ability to really feel any joy or happiness, still no feeling in my

> muscles, plus heart palps.

>

> I want to go back to all armour, but am scared because that is when so

> many of the problems really kicked in. I'm supposed to go back for

> more blood tests soon (am currently on .137 T4 + 1 grain armour), but

> don't see the point. Already have wasted so much money on these tests

> that we make adjustments based on -- and feel no better. Plus if I

> don't feel better this time, my dr wants to refer me on to an endo

> because of my suppressed TSH which I certainly don't want to do.

>

> I counted up and I should have 194 1 grain tablets available until my

> prescription runs out. Also have 36 1 1/2 grains from April of 03,

> but wonder if they would still be as potent.

>

> How should I go about this if I take the plunge? (None of my other

> self-treating decisions have worked out so I don't have a lot of

> confidence!) Should I up to 2 grains and up from there? I'm pretty

> lost and so tired of living this way.

>

> I'm sorry it's so long -- it seems I try to put my whole life history

> in one little post.

>

> Thanks for any input - Debbie

[Guest guest]

Topper - Thanks for your very indepth reply.

2 years ago when I took those tests on armour, I took the armour 2-3

hours before the test. I've learned a lot since then and have been

taking my armour after the bloodwork. So I know what you mean about

the Ft3 # probably not being accurate back then.

I'd always swallowed my armour, but about 3-4 weeks ago -- since

reading all the posts here -- have switched to sublingual. I split my

dose and do one about 9:00 am and one about 3:00. (I've been taking

the synthroid at 9:00 too, but hopefully won't be on synthroid much

longer!!)

I've been taking 1 nutri-med adrenal when I get up, but then have

breakfast right after. Then I've been taking another at lunchtime.

For some reason, I haven't switched to sublingual yet with these --

tried it once, but there was something about the flavor. Perhaps I

just need to try it again!

I've been taking one iron pill at lunch and one at supper. Supper is

also when I take my multi-vitamin. Also have been taking extra

Vitamin C and B5 for my adrenals.

My husband and I did a lot of talking today and we're both really

ready to try the armour again. It's been hard for me to get over the

" can't let the FT3 get over the range " philosophy -- But I think I'm

there!

Since RAI, my TSH has pretty much always been suppressed on meds so I

know that's never been accurate as far as how I felt. So what's the

chance that the Free #s are accurate as far as showing how my body's

actually using the thyroid hormone. I'm so tired of wasting money on

labs and adjusting based on them, and never feeling any better. Doing

this little juggling game of armour and synthroid, trying to get a

good combo, is wearing me out.

So at this point, I'm ready to chuck the thyroid blood tests, switch

back to armour and go by symptoms and temp. When I was originally on

armour and started having so many problems, I had no idea about

adrenals or iron. I'm hoping that addressing these problems will help

me tolerate the increases in the armour.

Yes, back when I went from 1.5 to 2.25 grains of armour, it was in one

big jump. So that very possibly was too big of a change at one time

and my body reacted negatively.

I've been trying to do the temp with a regular digital thermometer we

had, but I don't know if it's very accurate. I couldn't find a

mercury thermometer, but did find a " basal digital thermometer " today.

It says it measures the basal body temp to identify ovulation, etc.

Would this work?

The 1 1/2 grains I still have were rebottled so I don't know what the

expiration would be. I got them in April 03, so I'm definetely over a

year later. Don't know if I should chance it, but if I don't use

them, it would really shorten the time I'd have to try this before I'd

need to find a dr or try ordering from Mexico.

I just know that I've never felt as good as I did for those 2 months

on 2.25 grains and I think I then blamed the armour dose for some

other problems I had. I am so ready to be feeling good again. I have

to really watch myself to go slow. Patience isn't my best virtue, but

I don't want to backslide any more than I have.

Thank you for all your help. I so appreciate it.

Debbie

> Let's do some digging... you said that the tests showed low Free T4 and

> high Free T3.. that suggests an imbalance BUT.. how long before you had

> the blood draw did you take your meds? The labs may have been

reading the

> free T3 that was still in your system from dosing and not the Free T3 in

> your system due to conversion.... that would mean that your dose is

still

> too low (low Free T4) and not knowing for sure if your natural

conversion

> is adequate.

>

> Tell me about when you are taking stuff...

> When do you take the thyroid, how many times per day? Do you swallow,

> empty stomach or not? Or do you take it sublingually?

> When are you taking adrenal, once or more per day? Do you swallow it or

> take it sublingually?

> When do you take the iron in relation to the thyroid?

>

> You don't actually want the Frees to 'balance' most folks seem to feel

> the best with the TSH around 1.0 or a bit less, Free T4 about mid range

> or a tad higher.... Free T3 at the high end of the range or a tad

> higher...

>

> The bottle of 1 1/2 grain will have an expiration date on them, check it

> - the manufacturer's exp. date, not the pharmacy's.... as long as the

> bottle has been closed tightly and kept at room temp, out of sun

light...

> they should be good at least until the expiration date. If prescription

> was rebottled by the pharmacist and put in a new bottle with a

label, the

> expiration date will automatically be 1 year from the date the

> prescription was filled. So then we'd be guessing.

>

> Don't worry about being long.. the more info you give the better.

>

> There are some things that some of us have found we need to do.. it

> varies from person to person you just have to find out what works for

> you...

>

> Sublingual dosing (placing the tab under your tongue) increases your

> absorption rate and leaves a lot more flexibility with meals and other

> supplements.

> Multiple dosing throughout the day evens out the T3 that hits your body

> at any one time, keeping levels from dropping low or spiking high. T3 is

> 95% used up 4 hours after you take it (either as Cytomel or natural

> thyroid) So by dosing all at once you get the great surge of T3 and then

> drop down to only your body's conversion the rest of the day... If you

> heart is ailing.. that can be a greater strain on it.. Personally... I

> find that multidosing through the day makes me feel MUCH better.

> Have you been able to track your basals (

> www.thyrophoenix.com/self_monitor.htm ) to see how your body is doing?

> Before the synthetics came to be and the testing, patients were treated

> based on symptoms and basals. It's a great way to keep track of how your

> metabolic rate is doing, so a great way to see how your body is reacting

> to your meds, and in adjusting your meds. You can monitor yourself

> between labs.

>

>

> You had a jump from 1 1/2 grains to 2 1/4, was that jump made all at

> once? It's possible that that was too great a jump for you all at

once...

> your body can react badly to increases that are too high (and also to

> increases that are done too close together)

>

> How soon are your next labs?

>

> I've been self medicating for over two years now.. It was the scariest

> thing I ever did, but it was the only choice that I had (no

insurance, no

> money for docs and labs - needed over a grand) so I just did it... Now I

> feel it was absolutely the BEST thing I have done for myself. I

> self-monitored and slowly adjusted my dosage up. I started out with

> increases about 6 weeks apart... a couple of times it was 12 weeks, I

> listened to what my body was telling me. I had a bit of trouble getting

> up to 3 grain, got hyper twice and backed off, the third time I did just

> fine... I'm now considering trying 3 1/4 grain... not sure though. My

> basals are fine, I'm still improving.... I may not rock the boat. I take

> mine sublingually, 1/2 grain doses, six times a day... That seems to be

> what my body wants.. that may change... I don't know, but for now it's

> what my body needs. I had RAI to kill my gland 15 years ago... so I'm

> totally dependant on what I'm taking...

>

> What ever you decide to do.. we're here to help... As far as the Armour

> that you have... I'd check the dates on the larger pills and use

those up

> first... keep filling the prescription on time and stock pile the

pills..

> With splitting and such you'll be able to use them and will not be

> wasting money. Money is scarce for many of us...

>

> For splitting, you can get a pill splitter... or, what I do, is use a

> single edged razor blade... I quarter most of my pills for

multi-dosing..

> and cut my multi-vitamins in to eights.. so I can take a piece every

time

> I eat...

>

>

>

> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 04:38:47 -0000 " Debbie " <sdlentz2@y...> writes:

>

> My whole system is so messed up, I'm not even sure what to do next.

>

> Am hypo due to RAI for Graves 8 years ago. 4 years ago, I added

> cytomel to the synthroid and immediately noticed the difference and

> felt better for a few months. Dr. adjusted dosage based on TSH and

> dropped me to .112 synthroid + 10 cytomel.

>

> Continued to have problems so switched to 1.5 of armour -- within a

> month, all symptoms were resolved. But of course it wouldn't last.

> Upped to 2.25 grains and felt great for 2 months, then had lots of

> problems.

>

> Tests showed low FT4 and high FT3. Went with the advice of some

> others and tried to get both #s more in balance. Since I was having

> horrible hair loss (which I'd previously only had with low FT4) and

> heart palps (assuming due to the high FT3), we thought this was the

> right direction.

>

> It has been a nightmare over the past two years of these adjustments.

> Numbers finally got good, but I still felt like crap. Tested

> adrenals and they were messed up, so have been taking nutri-meds on my

> own for about a month, altho I don't know if at the right amt. Also

> taking iron for low ferritin.

>

> I am so depressed, still having hair loss, still no sex drive, still

> no ability to really feel any joy or happiness, still no feeling in my

> muscles, plus heart palps.

>

> I want to go back to all armour, but am scared because that is when so

> many of the problems really kicked in. I'm supposed to go back for

> more blood tests soon (am currently on .137 T4 + 1 grain armour), but

> don't see the point. Already have wasted so much money on these tests

> that we make adjustments based on -- and feel no better. Plus if I

> don't feel better this time, my dr wants to refer me on to an endo

> because of my suppressed TSH which I certainly don't want to do.

>

> I counted up and I should have 194 1 grain tablets available until my

> prescription runs out. Also have 36 1 1/2 grains from April of 03,

> but wonder if they would still be as potent.

>

> How should I go about this if I take the plunge? (None of my other

> self-treating decisions have worked out so I don't have a lot of

> confidence!) Should I up to 2 grains and up from there? I'm pretty

> lost and so tired of living this way.

>

> I'm sorry it's so long -- it seems I try to put my whole life history

> in one little post.

>

> Thanks for any input - Debbie

[Guest guest]

Topper - Thanks for your very indepth reply.

2 years ago when I took those tests on armour, I took the armour 2-3

hours before the test. I've learned a lot since then and have been

taking my armour after the bloodwork. So I know what you mean about

the Ft3 # probably not being accurate back then.

I'd always swallowed my armour, but about 3-4 weeks ago -- since

reading all the posts here -- have switched to sublingual. I split my

dose and do one about 9:00 am and one about 3:00. (I've been taking

the synthroid at 9:00 too, but hopefully won't be on synthroid much

longer!!)

I've been taking 1 nutri-med adrenal when I get up, but then have

breakfast right after. Then I've been taking another at lunchtime.

For some reason, I haven't switched to sublingual yet with these --

tried it once, but there was something about the flavor. Perhaps I

just need to try it again!

I've been taking one iron pill at lunch and one at supper. Supper is

also when I take my multi-vitamin. Also have been taking extra

Vitamin C and B5 for my adrenals.

My husband and I did a lot of talking today and we're both really

ready to try the armour again. It's been hard for me to get over the

" can't let the FT3 get over the range " philosophy -- But I think I'm

there!

Since RAI, my TSH has pretty much always been suppressed on meds so I

know that's never been accurate as far as how I felt. So what's the

chance that the Free #s are accurate as far as showing how my body's

actually using the thyroid hormone. I'm so tired of wasting money on

labs and adjusting based on them, and never feeling any better. Doing

this little juggling game of armour and synthroid, trying to get a

good combo, is wearing me out.

So at this point, I'm ready to chuck the thyroid blood tests, switch

back to armour and go by symptoms and temp. When I was originally on

armour and started having so many problems, I had no idea about

adrenals or iron. I'm hoping that addressing these problems will help

me tolerate the increases in the armour.

Yes, back when I went from 1.5 to 2.25 grains of armour, it was in one

big jump. So that very possibly was too big of a change at one time

and my body reacted negatively.

I've been trying to do the temp with a regular digital thermometer we

had, but I don't know if it's very accurate. I couldn't find a

mercury thermometer, but did find a " basal digital thermometer " today.

It says it measures the basal body temp to identify ovulation, etc.

Would this work?

The 1 1/2 grains I still have were rebottled so I don't know what the

expiration would be. I got them in April 03, so I'm definetely over a

year later. Don't know if I should chance it, but if I don't use

them, it would really shorten the time I'd have to try this before I'd

need to find a dr or try ordering from Mexico.

I just know that I've never felt as good as I did for those 2 months

on 2.25 grains and I think I then blamed the armour dose for some

other problems I had. I am so ready to be feeling good again. I have

to really watch myself to go slow. Patience isn't my best virtue, but

I don't want to backslide any more than I have.

Thank you for all your help. I so appreciate it.

Debbie

> Let's do some digging... you said that the tests showed low Free T4 and

> high Free T3.. that suggests an imbalance BUT.. how long before you had

> the blood draw did you take your meds? The labs may have been

reading the

> free T3 that was still in your system from dosing and not the Free T3 in

> your system due to conversion.... that would mean that your dose is

still

> too low (low Free T4) and not knowing for sure if your natural

conversion

> is adequate.

>

> Tell me about when you are taking stuff...

> When do you take the thyroid, how many times per day? Do you swallow,

> empty stomach or not? Or do you take it sublingually?

> When are you taking adrenal, once or more per day? Do you swallow it or

> take it sublingually?

> When do you take the iron in relation to the thyroid?

>

> You don't actually want the Frees to 'balance' most folks seem to feel

> the best with the TSH around 1.0 or a bit less, Free T4 about mid range

> or a tad higher.... Free T3 at the high end of the range or a tad

> higher...

>

> The bottle of 1 1/2 grain will have an expiration date on them, check it

> - the manufacturer's exp. date, not the pharmacy's.... as long as the

> bottle has been closed tightly and kept at room temp, out of sun

light...

> they should be good at least until the expiration date. If prescription

> was rebottled by the pharmacist and put in a new bottle with a

label, the

> expiration date will automatically be 1 year from the date the

> prescription was filled. So then we'd be guessing.

>

> Don't worry about being long.. the more info you give the better.

>

> There are some things that some of us have found we need to do.. it

> varies from person to person you just have to find out what works for

> you...

>

> Sublingual dosing (placing the tab under your tongue) increases your

> absorption rate and leaves a lot more flexibility with meals and other

> supplements.

> Multiple dosing throughout the day evens out the T3 that hits your body

> at any one time, keeping levels from dropping low or spiking high. T3 is

> 95% used up 4 hours after you take it (either as Cytomel or natural

> thyroid) So by dosing all at once you get the great surge of T3 and then

> drop down to only your body's conversion the rest of the day... If you

> heart is ailing.. that can be a greater strain on it.. Personally... I

> find that multidosing through the day makes me feel MUCH better.

> Have you been able to track your basals (

> www.thyrophoenix.com/self_monitor.htm ) to see how your body is doing?

> Before the synthetics came to be and the testing, patients were treated

> based on symptoms and basals. It's a great way to keep track of how your

> metabolic rate is doing, so a great way to see how your body is reacting

> to your meds, and in adjusting your meds. You can monitor yourself

> between labs.

>

>

> You had a jump from 1 1/2 grains to 2 1/4, was that jump made all at

> once? It's possible that that was too great a jump for you all at

once...

> your body can react badly to increases that are too high (and also to

> increases that are done too close together)

>

> How soon are your next labs?

>

> I've been self medicating for over two years now.. It was the scariest

> thing I ever did, but it was the only choice that I had (no

insurance, no

> money for docs and labs - needed over a grand) so I just did it... Now I

> feel it was absolutely the BEST thing I have done for myself. I

> self-monitored and slowly adjusted my dosage up. I started out with

> increases about 6 weeks apart... a couple of times it was 12 weeks, I

> listened to what my body was telling me. I had a bit of trouble getting

> up to 3 grain, got hyper twice and backed off, the third time I did just

> fine... I'm now considering trying 3 1/4 grain... not sure though. My

> basals are fine, I'm still improving.... I may not rock the boat. I take

> mine sublingually, 1/2 grain doses, six times a day... That seems to be

> what my body wants.. that may change... I don't know, but for now it's

> what my body needs. I had RAI to kill my gland 15 years ago... so I'm

> totally dependant on what I'm taking...

>

> What ever you decide to do.. we're here to help... As far as the Armour

> that you have... I'd check the dates on the larger pills and use

those up

> first... keep filling the prescription on time and stock pile the

pills..

> With splitting and such you'll be able to use them and will not be

> wasting money. Money is scarce for many of us...

>

> For splitting, you can get a pill splitter... or, what I do, is use a

> single edged razor blade... I quarter most of my pills for

multi-dosing..

> and cut my multi-vitamins in to eights.. so I can take a piece every

time

> I eat...

>

>

>

> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 04:38:47 -0000 " Debbie " <sdlentz2@y...> writes:

>

> My whole system is so messed up, I'm not even sure what to do next.

>

> Am hypo due to RAI for Graves 8 years ago. 4 years ago, I added

> cytomel to the synthroid and immediately noticed the difference and

> felt better for a few months. Dr. adjusted dosage based on TSH and

> dropped me to .112 synthroid + 10 cytomel.

>

> Continued to have problems so switched to 1.5 of armour -- within a

> month, all symptoms were resolved. But of course it wouldn't last.

> Upped to 2.25 grains and felt great for 2 months, then had lots of

> problems.

>

> Tests showed low FT4 and high FT3. Went with the advice of some

> others and tried to get both #s more in balance. Since I was having

> horrible hair loss (which I'd previously only had with low FT4) and

> heart palps (assuming due to the high FT3), we thought this was the

> right direction.

>

> It has been a nightmare over the past two years of these adjustments.

> Numbers finally got good, but I still felt like crap. Tested

> adrenals and they were messed up, so have been taking nutri-meds on my

> own for about a month, altho I don't know if at the right amt. Also

> taking iron for low ferritin.

>

> I am so depressed, still having hair loss, still no sex drive, still

> no ability to really feel any joy or happiness, still no feeling in my

> muscles, plus heart palps.

>

> I want to go back to all armour, but am scared because that is when so

> many of the problems really kicked in. I'm supposed to go back for

> more blood tests soon (am currently on .137 T4 + 1 grain armour), but

> don't see the point. Already have wasted so much money on these tests

> that we make adjustments based on -- and feel no better. Plus if I

> don't feel better this time, my dr wants to refer me on to an endo

> because of my suppressed TSH which I certainly don't want to do.

>

> I counted up and I should have 194 1 grain tablets available until my

> prescription runs out. Also have 36 1 1/2 grains from April of 03,

> but wonder if they would still be as potent.

>

> How should I go about this if I take the plunge? (None of my other

> self-treating decisions have worked out so I don't have a lot of

> confidence!) Should I up to 2 grains and up from there? I'm pretty

> lost and so tired of living this way.

>

> I'm sorry it's so long -- it seems I try to put my whole life history

> in one little post.

>

> Thanks for any input - Debbie