Re: Does TSH have a role other than thyroid regulation?

[Guest guest]

I've been pondering on this... I'd like you guys to go for a walk with me...

TSH... stimulates the thyroid into producing more hormone... Set that aside for a bit... if the thyroid is not producing enough hormone for the body to function correctly and the TSH isn't providing it with the instruction it needs to produce more (regardless of the reason) would the person still not benefit from increasing the thyroid hormones through supplementation ?

I'm kinda linking it to me... I have genetically flawed TSH receptors.. so even though my TSH was way low, trying to reduce output... my thyroid just kept pumping away... it didn't know what it was supposed to do and as years went by it just kept putting out more and more and more until I was in thyroid storm...

What if you take the reverse of that... not enough TSH to simulate.. the gland not knowing that it needs to put out more and so does not?

Sooo... if the fatigue, memory issues, lack of libido are still symptoms of thyroid hormone levels being insufficient.. but for whatever reason the TSH isn't being produced ... would the addition of more thyroid hormone, dosing based on symptoms and basals (like they did for half a century before the synthetics became the cash cows they are)...

I'm just wondering about this... When you consider that as long as folks were being treated by symptoms we didn't have Fibromyalgia, or Chronic Fatigue or the epidemic of over weight and depression... is there more to the concept of treating by symptoms and not to that TSH level that the Synthroid makers came up with?

Sorry for this coming out like a bash against synthetics... I didn't mean it to be... but, well.. so much of this revolves around their patent and new procedures...

What comes to mind for you guys with this? I'm I just thinking inside out or does this make some sense? Is it worth bantering around for a while and seeing if we can come up with something logical?

Oh.. Deb.. I tend to replay the hormones and tests a lot to help everyone remember and for the newbies to be exposed to the differences... some of the base stuff is kinda hard to understand.. and when your brain has the farts and you lose what you learn... you need to have someone tell it again... It helps me to remember stuff too.. to repeat... my brain often gets the farts!!! hehehehehehehe

Topper ()

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 17:45:35 -0000 "dbora67" writes:

Thanks, Topper;Yup, I know about the differences between TSH, T4, T3 etc - thanks. The fact that the TSH is not "shouting louder" is part of why the endo says I am not hypothyroid, that the low T4 levels I have are normal for me. And I'd buy that, except for the fact that I was very symptomatic before the Synthroid dose was upped! I feel "okay", have some remaining fatigue, memory problems and lack of libido, plus the new female problems. I don't blame the thyroid for my current symptoms, necessarily - I thoght that since my TSH indicated a likely secondary cause, I wondered if some of my symptoms *might* be a result of some other pituitary deficiency. The endo thinks no. And no, I am not taking any vitamin or mineral supplements at the moment -the Chinese doc had told me to stop a while back.Remaining puzzled,Deb

[Guest guest]

I've been pondering on this... I'd like you guys to go for a walk with me...

TSH... stimulates the thyroid into producing more hormone... Set that aside for a bit... if the thyroid is not producing enough hormone for the body to function correctly and the TSH isn't providing it with the instruction it needs to produce more (regardless of the reason) would the person still not benefit from increasing the thyroid hormones through supplementation ?

I'm kinda linking it to me... I have genetically flawed TSH receptors.. so even though my TSH was way low, trying to reduce output... my thyroid just kept pumping away... it didn't know what it was supposed to do and as years went by it just kept putting out more and more and more until I was in thyroid storm...

What if you take the reverse of that... not enough TSH to simulate.. the gland not knowing that it needs to put out more and so does not?

Sooo... if the fatigue, memory issues, lack of libido are still symptoms of thyroid hormone levels being insufficient.. but for whatever reason the TSH isn't being produced ... would the addition of more thyroid hormone, dosing based on symptoms and basals (like they did for half a century before the synthetics became the cash cows they are)...

I'm just wondering about this... When you consider that as long as folks were being treated by symptoms we didn't have Fibromyalgia, or Chronic Fatigue or the epidemic of over weight and depression... is there more to the concept of treating by symptoms and not to that TSH level that the Synthroid makers came up with?

Sorry for this coming out like a bash against synthetics... I didn't mean it to be... but, well.. so much of this revolves around their patent and new procedures...

What comes to mind for you guys with this? I'm I just thinking inside out or does this make some sense? Is it worth bantering around for a while and seeing if we can come up with something logical?

Oh.. Deb.. I tend to replay the hormones and tests a lot to help everyone remember and for the newbies to be exposed to the differences... some of the base stuff is kinda hard to understand.. and when your brain has the farts and you lose what you learn... you need to have someone tell it again... It helps me to remember stuff too.. to repeat... my brain often gets the farts!!! hehehehehehehe

Topper ()

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 17:45:35 -0000 "dbora67" writes:

Thanks, Topper;Yup, I know about the differences between TSH, T4, T3 etc - thanks. The fact that the TSH is not "shouting louder" is part of why the endo says I am not hypothyroid, that the low T4 levels I have are normal for me. And I'd buy that, except for the fact that I was very symptomatic before the Synthroid dose was upped! I feel "okay", have some remaining fatigue, memory problems and lack of libido, plus the new female problems. I don't blame the thyroid for my current symptoms, necessarily - I thoght that since my TSH indicated a likely secondary cause, I wondered if some of my symptoms *might* be a result of some other pituitary deficiency. The endo thinks no. And no, I am not taking any vitamin or mineral supplements at the moment -the Chinese doc had told me to stop a while back.Remaining puzzled,Deb

[Guest guest]

I've been pondering on this... I'd like you guys to go for a walk with me...

TSH... stimulates the thyroid into producing more hormone... Set that aside for a bit... if the thyroid is not producing enough hormone for the body to function correctly and the TSH isn't providing it with the instruction it needs to produce more (regardless of the reason) would the person still not benefit from increasing the thyroid hormones through supplementation ?

I'm kinda linking it to me... I have genetically flawed TSH receptors.. so even though my TSH was way low, trying to reduce output... my thyroid just kept pumping away... it didn't know what it was supposed to do and as years went by it just kept putting out more and more and more until I was in thyroid storm...

What if you take the reverse of that... not enough TSH to simulate.. the gland not knowing that it needs to put out more and so does not?

Sooo... if the fatigue, memory issues, lack of libido are still symptoms of thyroid hormone levels being insufficient.. but for whatever reason the TSH isn't being produced ... would the addition of more thyroid hormone, dosing based on symptoms and basals (like they did for half a century before the synthetics became the cash cows they are)...

I'm just wondering about this... When you consider that as long as folks were being treated by symptoms we didn't have Fibromyalgia, or Chronic Fatigue or the epidemic of over weight and depression... is there more to the concept of treating by symptoms and not to that TSH level that the Synthroid makers came up with?

Sorry for this coming out like a bash against synthetics... I didn't mean it to be... but, well.. so much of this revolves around their patent and new procedures...

What comes to mind for you guys with this? I'm I just thinking inside out or does this make some sense? Is it worth bantering around for a while and seeing if we can come up with something logical?

Oh.. Deb.. I tend to replay the hormones and tests a lot to help everyone remember and for the newbies to be exposed to the differences... some of the base stuff is kinda hard to understand.. and when your brain has the farts and you lose what you learn... you need to have someone tell it again... It helps me to remember stuff too.. to repeat... my brain often gets the farts!!! hehehehehehehe

Topper ()

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 17:45:35 -0000 "dbora67" writes:

Thanks, Topper;Yup, I know about the differences between TSH, T4, T3 etc - thanks. The fact that the TSH is not "shouting louder" is part of why the endo says I am not hypothyroid, that the low T4 levels I have are normal for me. And I'd buy that, except for the fact that I was very symptomatic before the Synthroid dose was upped! I feel "okay", have some remaining fatigue, memory problems and lack of libido, plus the new female problems. I don't blame the thyroid for my current symptoms, necessarily - I thoght that since my TSH indicated a likely secondary cause, I wondered if some of my symptoms *might* be a result of some other pituitary deficiency. The endo thinks no. And no, I am not taking any vitamin or mineral supplements at the moment -the Chinese doc had told me to stop a while back.Remaining puzzled,Deb

[Guest guest]

Hmmm, interesting... This has puzzled me for a while... and how the thyroid itself reacts to TSH ..... Mine slowly increased production (remember, I've got crippled TSH receptors) and when my endo and I started charting stuff out from when I was a wee one on up to when I stormed... we pinpointed puberty as then time when I started going hyper, slowly at first. I had my first period before I was ten. That's also when I started getting compulsive about activity... I started running.. I ran ALL the time! By mid teens I got into biking... 100 to 150 miles everyday.. that is how I wrecked my knees, the bike I rode was too small and I peddled pigeon kneed, destroying the cartilage... The list goes on.... the point, I was involved with almost manic physical activity in an attempt to use up energy, my eating patterns were already showing that I was hyper metabolic, but my folks thought I was fat... showing those pics to the doc she pointed out that I was not fat... indicating prominent bone and muscle formations that everyone else saw as 'bigger than other kids' and called fat.

Back to the subject... with no TSH instruction... why did my thyroid continue to increase production and go on into storm? Why did two of my sibs only get uncomfortable hyper (or did they just get a better doc that spotted it sooner?)?

So one had a partial thyroidectomy, the other medication to slow and 'retrain'.. now both are doing great with only a small amount of T4...

..... the mystery continues....

Even though it won't do a thing to help me anymore.. I wonder if the answer to this might help others...

*shrug*

Topper ()

On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 21:07:52 -0500 " " writes:

Remember last yr, when we kind of knocked around something about what a doctor said about the pituitary (TSH) taking up to even 9 months or so to get the message that there was some thyroid hormone going on? This interested me, but I sort of let it fall by the wayside. Why would it take that long for it to get the message, and could that be the reason that TSH is not a good momentary indicator of what's going on within a shorter amt of given time?