Re: old mens disease

[Guest guest]

Hi Laurel,

First of all, let me apologize to Dan

Fogleberg's widow and any other widows who might have been upset by my post. I

certainly did not mean to upset them, but regrettably, if we are to discuss the

consequences of this disease, we have to accept the fact that some of us are

going to die from the disease, no matter what road we take. And since death is

the end point of any diagnosis, I felt it was important to discuss that

eventuality for once – after all it is the fear of death that drives the

decision to choose what appears to be the best treatment.

We cannot escape the fact that, no matter

at what age men are diagnosed (and that is what the data to which you refer

summarizes) the majority of men who die from PCa are men who would be

considered old – with more than 90% of deaths occurring in men over 70. I

did not say that men under this age did not die from the disease – they do,

and from what you say Dan Fogleberg was one of these unfortunate men. But very

few men die at that early age and those who do usually have a form of the

disease that is identifiably aggressive, unlike the majority of men who have a

form of the disease that some doctors regard as a chronic disease that need not

be treated immediately..

I think it is important for people to know

this as part of their decision making process. My apologies again if speaking

plainly has caused upset. It seemed to me from what was being said in the

thread that plain talking was being encouraged.

All the best

Terry Herbert

I have no medical

qualifications but I was diagnosed in ‘96: and have learned a bit since

then.

My sites are at www.yananow.net and www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

Dr

“Snuffy” Myers : " As a physician, I am painfully aware that most of

the decisions we make with regard to prostate cancer are made with inadequate

data "

From:

ProstateCancerSupport

[mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Laurel

Sent: Friday, 1 August 2008 12:25

PM

To:

ProstateCancerSupport

Subject:

old mens disease

Hi Terry, I really don't want to quibble with you. I

consider you a

friend, and support your advocacy of active surveillance. You said,

prostate cancer is an old mens disease, It is in fact - at least as

far as killing men is concerned. The median age for death from the

disease is still in the mid-80s as it was before the PSA era began.

In other words more than half the men who die from PCa are over 80

years of age – and I think most people (other than men over 80) would

regard men of 80 as old men. The disease specific mortality rate only

really starts climbing after age 70. PCa death under the age of 40 is

statistically zero. Check out the SEER site for more detailed

information.

I say,

Having a disease is not the same as dying from a disease. I went to

the protonbob site where one can categorize the charts using

different criteria. There are now over 4,000 prostate cancer patients

who have joined. There is no requirement to join if one has been

treated at Loma . I checked on the membership by age when

treated.

I estimated that there are 900 members who were treated, in the age

group of 40-60. I stopped checking at age 60.

Dan Fogleberg's widow would probably take exception to your

statements about prostate cancer being an old mens disease. The well

known singer died a short time ago at the age of 56.

Laurel()

[Guest guest]

Laurel,As one of the youngster's around here (I'm 45) I would argue and do argue that PCa ISan old man's disease. This, in my opinion, is one of the reasons we as a community struggle

to gain major momentum, like the breast cancer community.Another point I was hoping you could clarify, you stated " PCa death under the age of 40 is

statistically zero " . This must mean 'of all men in their 40's, those that die of PCa is statistically zero'? Because I know I have read a number of places that 'of those men in their 40's with PCa, those that die from it is statistically higher than other age groups'?

It make sense, since those in their 40's usually get more aggressive PCa, generally speaking.[sorry to hi-jack the thread]

Hi Laurel,

First of all, let me apologize to Dan

Fogleberg's widow and any other widows who might have been upset by my post. I

certainly did not mean to upset them, but regrettably, if we are to discuss the

consequences of this disease, we have to accept the fact that some of us are

going to die from the disease, no matter what road we take. And since death is

the end point of any diagnosis, I felt it was important to discuss that

eventuality for once – after all it is the fear of death that drives the

decision to choose what appears to be the best treatment.

We cannot escape the fact that, no matter

at what age men are diagnosed (and that is what the data to which you refer

summarizes) the majority of men who die from PCa are men who would be

considered old – with more than 90% of deaths occurring in men over 70. I

did not say that men under this age did not die from the disease – they do,

and from what you say Dan Fogleberg was one of these unfortunate men. But very

few men die at that early age and those who do usually have a form of the

disease that is identifiably aggressive, unlike the majority of men who have a

form of the disease that some doctors regard as a chronic disease that need not

be treated immediately..

I think it is important for people to know

this as part of their decision making process. My apologies again if speaking

plainly has caused upset. It seemed to me from what was being said in the

thread that plain talking was being encouraged.

All the best

Terry Herbert

I have no medical

qualifications but I was diagnosed in '96: and have learned a bit since

then.

My sites are at www.yananow.net and www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

Dr

"Snuffy" Myers : " As a physician, I am painfully aware that most of

the decisions we make with regard to prostate cancer are made with inadequate

data "

From:

ProstateCancerSupport

[mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Laurel

Sent: Friday, 1 August 2008 12:25

PM

To:

ProstateCancerSupport

Subject:

old mens disease

Hi Terry, I really don't want to quibble with you. I

consider you a

friend, and support your advocacy of active surveillance. You said,

prostate cancer is an old mens disease, It is in fact - at least as

far as killing men is concerned. The median age for death from the

disease is still in the mid-80s as it was before the PSA era began.

In other words more than half the men who die from PCa are over 80

years of age – and I think most people (other than men over 80) would

regard men of 80 as old men. The disease specific mortality rate only

really starts climbing after age 70. PCa death under the age of 40 is

statistically zero. Check out the SEER site for more detailed

information.

I say,

Having a disease is not the same as dying from a disease. I went to

the protonbob site where one can categorize the charts using

different criteria. There are now over 4,000 prostate cancer patients

who have joined. There is no requirement to join if one has been

treated at Loma . I checked on the membership by age when

treated.

I estimated that there are 900 members who were treated, in the age

group of 40-60. I stopped checking at age 60.

Dan Fogleberg's widow would probably take exception to your

statements about prostate cancer being an old mens disease. The well

known singer died a short time ago at the age of 56.

Laurel()

-- Emersonwww.flhw.org

[Guest guest]

Laurel D here, I too am shocked about the lack of information urging men to get yearly PSAs. We wouldn't be so scared now if Don had ever been informed that he needed a yearly test. I know that with mammograms, if I don't get a yearly one my hospital sends me two reminders of their importance. Why isn't there any system like that in place for men?

[Guest guest]

Yesterday I went to the VA clinic for the first time since I have always used private doctors for my treatment. I went to the physician assistant first and talked with her for two hours. I was having anxiety problems from grieving over my dad's recent death. It was nice to actually to talk with someone for so long, usually my GP sees me for ten minutes tops and rushes me out. Anyway I got sent up to the mental health physician assistant and talked with him for awhile. To make a long story short his nurse started talking about prostate cancer and asking me if I saw the show last night about some celebrity who was in his 70's and found out he had prostate cancer and they told him he would die from something else not cancer. She said you don''t have to worry about prostate cancer it can't kill you. All I could say was I will die from prostate cancer because mine is not the slow growing kind. If we have nurses relaying this information to men how in

the world can we expect for all men to get tested. dittman wrote: Laurel D here, I too am shocked about the lack of information urging men to get yearly PSAs. We wouldn't be so scared now if Don had ever been informed that he needed a yearly test. I know that with mammograms, if I don't get a yearly one my hospital sends me two reminders of their importance. Why isn't there any system like that in place for men?

[Guest guest]

Yesterday I went to the VA clinic for the first time since I have always used private doctors for my treatment. I went to the physician assistant first and talked with her for two hours. I was having anxiety problems from grieving over my dad's recent death. It was nice to actually to talk with someone for so long, usually my GP sees me for ten minutes tops and rushes me out. Anyway I got sent up to the mental health physician assistant and talked with him for awhile. To make a long story short his nurse started talking about prostate cancer and asking me if I saw the show last night about some celebrity who was in his 70's and found out he had prostate cancer and they told him he would die from something else not cancer. She said you don''t have to worry about prostate cancer it can't kill you. All I could say was I will die from prostate cancer because mine is not the slow growing kind. If we have nurses relaying this information to men how in

the world can we expect for all men to get tested. dittman wrote: Laurel D here, I too am shocked about the lack of information urging men to get yearly PSAs. We wouldn't be so scared now if Don had ever been informed that he needed a yearly test. I know that with mammograms, if I don't get a yearly one my hospital sends me two reminders of their importance. Why isn't there any system like that in place for men?

[Guest guest]

As the saying has it there are lies damned lies and statistics.

I would guess that a higher proportion of young men with PCA die of it than is

the case for older men diagnosed. But young men represent a such tiny fraction

of the total number of men diagnosed with PCa that the number of young men

dieing of cancer as opposed to motor accidents etc is very small.

This doesn't alter the fact that once diagnosed PCa is a much more serious

illness for a young man as the prognosis is worse and the side effects of

treament likely to be more disruptive to ones life.

I was diagnosed at 60 so fall between the 40 year olds and the 80 year olds. I

would much prefer to have been diagnosed at 80. Still I'm nearly half way there

and still enjoying life.

Best wishes

Everard

In message <919277da0808010513p9447092jee00686885aafc18@...>

ProstateCancerSupport writes:

> Laurel,

> As one of the youngster's around here (I'm 45) I would argue and do argue

> that PCa IS

> an old man's disease. This, in my opinion, is one of the reasons we as a

> community struggle

> to gain major momentum, like the breast cancer community.

>

> Another point I was hoping you could clarify, you stated " PCa death under

> the age of 40 is

> statistically zero " . This must mean 'of all men in their 40's, those that

> die of PCa is statistically zero'?

> Because I know I have read a number of places that 'of those men in their

> 40's with PCa, those that die from it is statistically higher than other age

> groups'?

>

> It make sense, since those in their 40's usually get more aggressive PCa,

> generally speaking.

>

> [sorry to hi-jack the thread]

>

>

>

>

> On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 12:05 AM, Terry Herbert

> wrote:

>

> > Hi Laurel,

> >

> >

> >

> > First of all, let me apologize to Dan Fogleberg's widow and any other

> > widows who might have been upset by my post. I certainly did not mean to

> > upset them, but regrettably, if we are to discuss the consequences of this

> > disease, we have to accept the fact that some of us are going to die from

> > the disease, no matter what road we take. And since death is the end point

> > of any diagnosis, I felt it was important to discuss that eventuality for

> > once – after all it is the fear of death that drives the decision to choose

> > what appears to be the best treatment.

> >

> >

> >

> > We cannot escape the fact that, no matter at what age men are diagnosed

> > (and that is what the data to which you refer summarizes) the majority of

> > men who die from PCa are men who would be considered old – with more than

> > 90% of deaths occurring in men over 70. I did not say that men under this

> > age did not die from the disease – they do, and from what you say Dan

> > Fogleberg was one of these unfortunate men. But very few men die at that

> > early age and those who do usually have a form of the disease that is

> > identifiably aggressive, unlike the majority of men who have a form of the

> > disease that some doctors regard as a chronic disease that need not be

> > treated immediately..

> >

> >

> >

> > I think it is important for people to know this as part of their decision

> > making process. My apologies again if speaking plainly has caused upset. It

> > seemed to me from what was being said in the thread that plain talking was

> > being encouraged.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > All the best

> >

> >

> >

> > Terry Herbert

> >

> > I have no medical qualifications but I was diagnosed in '96: and have

> > learned a bit since then.

> >

> > My sites are at www.yananow.net and

> > www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

> >

> > *Dr " Snuffy " Myers** **: " As a physician, I am painfully aware

> > that most of the decisions we make with regard to prostate cancer are made

> > with inadequate data** " *

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------

> >

> > *From:* ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:

> > ProstateCancerSupport ] *On Behalf Of *Laurel

> > *Sent:* Friday, 1 August 2008 12:25 PM

> > *To:* ProstateCancerSupport

> > *Subject:* old mens disease

> >

> >

> >

> > Hi Terry, I really don't want to quibble with you. I consider you a

> > friend, and support your advocacy of active surveillance. You said,

> >

> > prostate cancer is an old mens disease, It is in fact - at least as

> > far as killing men is concerned. The median age for death from the

> > disease is still in the mid-80s as it was before the PSA era began.

> > In other words more than half the men who die from PCa are over 80

> > years of age – and I think most people (other than men over 80) would

> > regard men of 80 as old men. The disease specific mortality rate only

> > really starts climbing after age 70. PCa death under the age of 40 is

> > statistically zero. Check out the SEER site for more detailed

> > information.

> >

> > I say,

> > Having a disease is not the same as dying from a disease. I went to

> > the protonbob site where one can categorize the charts using

> > different criteria. There are now over 4,000 prostate cancer patients

> > who have joined. There is no requirement to join if one has been

> > treated at Loma . I checked on the membership by age when

> > treated.

> >

> > I estimated that there are 900 members who were treated, in the age

> > group of 40-60. I stopped checking at age 60.

> >

> > Dan Fogleberg's widow would probably take exception to your

> > statements about prostate cancer being an old mens disease. The well

> > known singer died a short time ago at the age of 56.

> >

> > Laurel()

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

>

> Emerson

> www.flhw.org

[Guest guest]

This is incredible!!!

I knew men could very well die from it before my husband was diagnosed! One

reason why I went into such a panic!!! Where are some of these people-on a

different planet?

 

In regards to mammograms-yes, I receive a yearly reminder from the hospital and

if you don't respond within a certain amount of time they will send another one.

My husband went about 6 years between PSA's and went to doc for totally

unrelated problem and got script for routine blood work; including PSA.  He

never received any reminders from the last time he had PSA checked. It should be

done just like mammograms.

 

dw

Laurel D here, I too am shocked about the lack of information urging men to get

yearly PSAs. We wouldn't be so scared now if Don had ever been informed that he

needed a yearly test. I know that with mammograms, if I don't get a yearly one

my hospital sends me two reminders of their importance. Why isn't there any

system like that in place for men?

[Guest guest]

Unfortunately the trials on PSA have not

been completed that show that screening saves lives so screening is not

currently endorsed by the government. There are many men with slow growing

disease who may be treated who have cancer that may never kill them. They

suffer side effects that may cause major problems.

The trials for mammograms have been

completed and show a benefit.

Kathy

From:

ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ]

On Behalf Of dittman

Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 9:54

AM

To:

ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: Re:

old mens disease

Laurel D here, I too am shocked about the lack of

information urging men to get yearly PSAs. We wouldn't be so scared now if Don

had ever been informed that he needed a yearly test. I know that with

mammograms, if I don't get a yearly one my hospital sends me two reminders of

their importance. Why isn't there any system like that in place for men?

[Guest guest]

The CDC and ACS do not recommend screening

but they do recommend that men talk to their doctors about the risks and benefits

of being screened. The association for Family Physicians takes a slightly

stronger stance and I think they are recommending against screening now. I may

be wrong there though. There are very vocal and respected medical people who

are opposed to screening. I have had a female family practice physician come up

to me at a large health fair and scream at me that I am responsible for maiming

men just for handing out educational material. I spend as much time working to

educate professionals as I do men. Need more advocates out there doing the same

thing. I have sources for material if anyone is interested.

Kathy

From: ProstateCancerSupport

[mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of JOHN LERCH

Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008

11:05 AM

To:

ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: Re:

old mens disease

Yesterday I went to the VA clinic for the first time since I have

always used private doctors for my treatment. I went to the physician assistant

first and talked with her for two hours. I was having anxiety problems from

grieving over my dad's recent death. It was nice to actually to talk with

someone for so long, usually my GP sees me for ten minutes tops and rushes me

out.

Anyway I got sent up to the mental health physician assistant and

talked with him for awhile.

To make a long story short his nurse started talking about prostate

cancer and asking me if I saw the show last night about some celebrity who was

in his 70's and found out he had prostate cancer and they told him he would die

from something else not cancer. She said you don''t have to worry about

prostate cancer it can't kill you. All I could say was I will die from prostate

cancer because mine is not the slow growing kind. If we have nurses relaying

this information to men how in the world can we expect for all men to

get tested.

dittman

<ddittmanvelocity (DOT) net> wrote:

Laurel D here, I too am shocked about the lack of

information urging men to get yearly PSAs. We wouldn't be so scared now if Don

had ever been informed that he needed a yearly test. I know that with

mammograms, if I don't get a yearly one my hospital sends me two reminders of

their importance. Why isn't there any system like that in place for men?

[Guest guest]

Guess I will chime in here, and I apologize in advance for the length

of this post:

The real problem is that which was highlighted by the VA nurse. It

is ignorance.

Statistics (not lies this time) show that each year about 200,000 men

are diagnosed with the disease. About 30,000 men a year die because

they either did not discover the cancer until it had metastasized, or

they waited too long to take any action.

It is a fact that as a man gets older, the chance of developing

prostate cancer increases. But it can and does strike adult men of

almost every age. One factor that leads to the possibility of simply

ignoring any warning signs is that prostate cancer usually does not

start to evidence itself until after the age of about forty.

It is probably true that the most dangerous period—in so far as

prostate cancer is concerned—in most men's lives, is between the age

of 40 and 60. In my opinion, this is due to the fact that this is the

time of life that is the busiest and most productive in terms of our

daily lives, and working at our jobs.

Many men are " too busy " to take the time out of their active

schedules to have their yearly physicals. Most men are at the peak of

their physical and mental capabilities, and maturity. If they are

reasonably healthy, the last thing that they are thinking about is

the " remote " possibility that some disease may be lurking—or perhaps

already growing and doing its dirty work on them. You may say: " I

don't feel sick, so why worry? "

Also there is the ignorance on the part of the patient AND the doctor

of the real importance of PSA and " doubling time. " Many docs,

including my " ex-GP " firmly believe that any PSA less than 4.0 is an

indication that prostate cancer is NOT to be suspected (in my case

even eith a nodule found on DRE!!!. We all know that that is

certainly incorrect!

Adding to this is the reluctance on the part of the " macho "

individual to have someone probing his rectum with a finger.

Ignorance again.

But sometimes there are NO early symptoms of prostate cancer! It is

a " stealth invader! " Even with low PSA and no nodules or lumps found

on DRE the PCa can be there! Which is why careful monitoring of rises

in PSA at whatever level, high or low, is so important.

Prostate cancer is slow to develop in most cases. However, this is

not always true. Some prostate tumors develop comparatively rapidly,

and this is why PSA checks and digital rectal examinations (DRE's)

should be a mandatory part of every man's yearly physical exam. And

why the yearly exam itself should be mandatory after the age of

forty. And why we need to be educated about PSA rises, doubling time,

and what nodules lumps or " hard spots " may portend.

Our women folk have been educated about lumps and breast cancer, the

need for yearly mammograms, and pap smear tests. It is high time

that men realize that they can no longer afford to be uneducated

idiots about prostate cancer and how to watch out for it!

And both men and women need to be aware of the need to have a

colonsocopy every five years after the age of forty. Turns out there

is an ignorance also that colon cancer is so common.

Here are my " talking points: "

THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING that one must understand about cancer

is that early detection is the key to survival. If detected early

many forms of cancer are treatable. Many times, a cure, or stopping

(or at least slowing) the progress of the disease is possible.

The earlier that cancer of any form is detected, the better the

chances for successful treatment and survival.

Some additional facts about cancer that are important for the reader

to recognize are as follows: See

<http://www.cancer.org/downloads/STT/Cancer_Statistics_2008.ppt>

· Over 500,000 people die of cancer in the United States every

year; that is more than 1,300 each day.

· Cancer causes more deaths than anything else except heart

disease.

· Lung cancer is the leading cause of cancer-related death in

the United States for both men and women.

· Prostate cancer is the second leading cause of cancer-related

death in men.

· Breast cancer is the second leading cause of cancer-related

death in women.

· Colorectal cancers are the third most frequent cause of death

in both men and women.

· Cancer is the second leading cause of death in children, even

though it is relatively rare. Accidents are the first.

Education is the key! And this especially applies to misinformed and

uneducated people like the VA nurse, my doctor, me back two years

ago, and all those men with PCa that have not yet been diagnosed!

Fuller

> Laurel D here, I too am shocked about the lack of

information urging men to get yearly PSAs. We wouldn't be so scared

now if Don had ever been informed that he needed a yearly test. I

know that with mammograms, if I don't get a yearly one my hospital

sends me two reminders of their importance. Why isn't there any

system like that in place for men?

>

[Guest guest]

Guess I will chime in here, and I apologize in advance for the length

of this post:

The real problem is that which was highlighted by the VA nurse. It

is ignorance.

Statistics (not lies this time) show that each year about 200,000 men

are diagnosed with the disease. About 30,000 men a year die because

they either did not discover the cancer until it had metastasized, or

they waited too long to take any action.

It is a fact that as a man gets older, the chance of developing

prostate cancer increases. But it can and does strike adult men of

almost every age. One factor that leads to the possibility of simply

ignoring any warning signs is that prostate cancer usually does not

start to evidence itself until after the age of about forty.

It is probably true that the most dangerous period—in so far as

prostate cancer is concerned—in most men's lives, is between the age

of 40 and 60. In my opinion, this is due to the fact that this is the

time of life that is the busiest and most productive in terms of our

daily lives, and working at our jobs.

Many men are " too busy " to take the time out of their active

schedules to have their yearly physicals. Most men are at the peak of

their physical and mental capabilities, and maturity. If they are

reasonably healthy, the last thing that they are thinking about is

the " remote " possibility that some disease may be lurking—or perhaps

already growing and doing its dirty work on them. You may say: " I

don't feel sick, so why worry? "

Also there is the ignorance on the part of the patient AND the doctor

of the real importance of PSA and " doubling time. " Many docs,

including my " ex-GP " firmly believe that any PSA less than 4.0 is an

indication that prostate cancer is NOT to be suspected (in my case

even eith a nodule found on DRE!!!. We all know that that is

certainly incorrect!

Adding to this is the reluctance on the part of the " macho "

individual to have someone probing his rectum with a finger.

Ignorance again.

But sometimes there are NO early symptoms of prostate cancer! It is

a " stealth invader! " Even with low PSA and no nodules or lumps found

on DRE the PCa can be there! Which is why careful monitoring of rises

in PSA at whatever level, high or low, is so important.

Prostate cancer is slow to develop in most cases. However, this is

not always true. Some prostate tumors develop comparatively rapidly,

and this is why PSA checks and digital rectal examinations (DRE's)

should be a mandatory part of every man's yearly physical exam. And

why the yearly exam itself should be mandatory after the age of

forty. And why we need to be educated about PSA rises, doubling time,

and what nodules lumps or " hard spots " may portend.

Our women folk have been educated about lumps and breast cancer, the

need for yearly mammograms, and pap smear tests. It is high time

that men realize that they can no longer afford to be uneducated

idiots about prostate cancer and how to watch out for it!

And both men and women need to be aware of the need to have a

colonsocopy every five years after the age of forty. Turns out there

is an ignorance also that colon cancer is so common.

Here are my " talking points: "

THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING that one must understand about cancer

is that early detection is the key to survival. If detected early

many forms of cancer are treatable. Many times, a cure, or stopping

(or at least slowing) the progress of the disease is possible.

The earlier that cancer of any form is detected, the better the

chances for successful treatment and survival.

Some additional facts about cancer that are important for the reader

to recognize are as follows: See

<http://www.cancer.org/downloads/STT/Cancer_Statistics_2008.ppt>

· Over 500,000 people die of cancer in the United States every

year; that is more than 1,300 each day.

· Cancer causes more deaths than anything else except heart

disease.

· Lung cancer is the leading cause of cancer-related death in

the United States for both men and women.

· Prostate cancer is the second leading cause of cancer-related

death in men.

· Breast cancer is the second leading cause of cancer-related

death in women.

· Colorectal cancers are the third most frequent cause of death

in both men and women.

· Cancer is the second leading cause of death in children, even

though it is relatively rare. Accidents are the first.

Education is the key! And this especially applies to misinformed and

uneducated people like the VA nurse, my doctor, me back two years

ago, and all those men with PCa that have not yet been diagnosed!

Fuller

> Laurel D here, I too am shocked about the lack of

information urging men to get yearly PSAs. We wouldn't be so scared

now if Don had ever been informed that he needed a yearly test. I

know that with mammograms, if I don't get a yearly one my hospital

sends me two reminders of their importance. Why isn't there any

system like that in place for men?

>

[Guest guest]

Kathy wrote: "The CDC and ACS do not recommend screening but they do recommend that men talk to their doctors about the risks and benefits of being screened."

This is not accurate. The American Cancer Society (ACS) on their Web site says:

See: http://www.cancer.org/docroot/ped/content/ped_2_3x_acs_cancer_detection_guidelines_36.asp

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Prostate cancer

Both the prostate-specific antigen (PSA) blood test and digital rectal examination (DRE) should be offered annually, beginning at age 50, to men who have at least a 10-year life expectancy. Men at high risk (African-American men and men with a strong family of one or more first-degree relatives [father, brothers] diagnosed before age 65) should begin testing at age 45. Men at even higher risk, due to multiple first-degree relatives affected at an early age, could begin testing at age 40. Depending on the results of this initial test, no further testing might be needed until age 45.

Information should be provided to all men about what is known and what is uncertain about the benefits, limitations, and harms of early detection and treatment of prostate cancer so that they can make an informed decision about testing.

Men who ask their doctor to make the decision on their behalf should be tested. Discouraging testing is not appropriate. Also, not offering testing is not appropriate. " [Emphasis added]

The CDC (Center for Disease Control) is not as positive, but does say the following on their Web site:

"Should I be screened for prostate cancer?The decision is up to you and your doctor. Know your risk factors for prostate cancer and the pros and cons of screening.

Pros: "I will take the screening tests because they will give me peace of mind. It could mean finding a problem, taking further tests, and treating a potentially serious prostate cancer. And because there's no way to tell if the prostate cancer will cause problems in the future, I want it found early when treatments might be more effective."

Cons: "I will not take the screening tests until medical experts agree that finding and treating prostate cancer in its early stages reduce the chance of dying from it. Screening tests could lead to further tests and treatment of a prostate cancer that may never cause problems. And treatment can have serious side effects." "

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The site outlines what the dangers of prostate cancer are, and some of the risks in not being screened, as well as some of the rationale for not screening, which I find misguided to a great degree.

Fuller

>> The CDC and ACS do not recommend screening but they do recommend that men> talk to their doctors about the risks and benefits of being screened. The> association for Family Physicians takes a slightly stronger stance and I...

[Guest guest]

Kathy wrote: "The CDC and ACS do not recommend screening but they do recommend that men talk to their doctors about the risks and benefits of being screened."

This is not accurate. The American Cancer Society (ACS) on their Web site says:

See: http://www.cancer.org/docroot/ped/content/ped_2_3x_acs_cancer_detection_guidelines_36.asp

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Prostate cancer

Both the prostate-specific antigen (PSA) blood test and digital rectal examination (DRE) should be offered annually, beginning at age 50, to men who have at least a 10-year life expectancy. Men at high risk (African-American men and men with a strong family of one or more first-degree relatives [father, brothers] diagnosed before age 65) should begin testing at age 45. Men at even higher risk, due to multiple first-degree relatives affected at an early age, could begin testing at age 40. Depending on the results of this initial test, no further testing might be needed until age 45.

Information should be provided to all men about what is known and what is uncertain about the benefits, limitations, and harms of early detection and treatment of prostate cancer so that they can make an informed decision about testing.

Men who ask their doctor to make the decision on their behalf should be tested. Discouraging testing is not appropriate. Also, not offering testing is not appropriate. " [Emphasis added]

The CDC (Center for Disease Control) is not as positive, but does say the following on their Web site:

"Should I be screened for prostate cancer?The decision is up to you and your doctor. Know your risk factors for prostate cancer and the pros and cons of screening.

Pros: "I will take the screening tests because they will give me peace of mind. It could mean finding a problem, taking further tests, and treating a potentially serious prostate cancer. And because there's no way to tell if the prostate cancer will cause problems in the future, I want it found early when treatments might be more effective."

Cons: "I will not take the screening tests until medical experts agree that finding and treating prostate cancer in its early stages reduce the chance of dying from it. Screening tests could lead to further tests and treatment of a prostate cancer that may never cause problems. And treatment can have serious side effects." "

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The site outlines what the dangers of prostate cancer are, and some of the risks in not being screened, as well as some of the rationale for not screening, which I find misguided to a great degree.

Fuller

>> The CDC and ACS do not recommend screening but they do recommend that men> talk to their doctors about the risks and benefits of being screened. The> association for Family Physicians takes a slightly stronger stance and I...

[Guest guest]

I was started on PSA screening by a public health nurse practitioner in Pasco County in Florida.

Louis. . . .

RE: old mens disease

The CDC and ACS do not recommend screening but they do recommend that men talk to their doctors about the risks and benefits of being screened. The association for Family Physicians takes a slightly stronger stance and I think they are recommending against screening now. I may be wrong there though. There are very vocal and respected medical people who are opposed to screening. I have had a female family practice physician come up to me at a large health fair and scream at me that I am responsible for maiming men just for handing out educational material. I spend as much time working to educate professionals as I do men. Need more advocates out there doing the same thing. I have sources for material if anyone is interested.

Kathy

From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of JOHN LERCHSent: Friday, August 01, 2008 11:05 AMTo: ProstateCancerSupport Subject: Re: old mens disease

Yesterday I went to the VA clinic for the first time since I have always used private doctors for my treatment. I went to the physician assistant first and talked with her for two hours. I was having anxiety problems from grieving over my dad's recent death. It was nice to actually to talk with someone for so long, usually my GP sees me for ten minutes tops and rushes me out.

Anyway I got sent up to the mental health physician assistant and talked with him for awhile.

To make a long story short his nurse started talking about prostate cancer and asking me if I saw the show last night about some celebrity who was in his 70's and found out he had prostate cancer and they told him he would die from something else not cancer. She said you don''t have to worry about prostate cancer it can't kill you. All I could say was I will die from prostate cancer because mine is not the slow growing kind. If we have nurses relaying this information to men how in the world can we expect for all men to get tested.

dittman <ddittmanvelocity (DOT) net> wrote:

Laurel D here, I too am shocked about the lack of information urging men to get yearly PSAs. We wouldn't be so scared now if Don had ever been informed that he needed a yearly test. I know that with mammograms, if I don't get a yearly one my hospital sends me two reminders of their importance. Why isn't there any system like that in place for men?

[Guest guest]

Laurel D,I applaud your insight. We men tend to want to maintain a "macho" image. We ain't afraid of PCa! Sincerely, I come from ta family with PCa in its lineage. I KNOW the value of the DRE and PSA. I told my 36 year old son that he needed to get one done soon and get it done annually for his family's benefit. He works several jobs including selling insurance and it scares him. It would take a man getting into the system just like the ladies do with their "Mam and Pap" every year.Go for it!Steve S in Arkansas Re: old mens diseaseLaurel D here, I too am shocked about the lack of information urging men to get yearly PSAs. We wouldn't be so scared now if Don had ever been informed that he needed a yearly test. I know that with mammograms, if I don't get a yearly one my hospital sends me two reminders of their importance. Why isn't there any system like that in place for men?

[Guest guest]

This discussion reminds me of a piece in Gilbert and Sullivan's comic operetta "The Mikado".

The chorus of which says "he is right and she is right as right as right can be."

True most who get PCa late are diagnosed in later years and die with it.

Also true too many men have PCa in their 40s, 50s or 60s and quite a few of these die of it.

How we long for an approved and proven tests to separate the tigers (agressive and likely to kill) from the sleepy cats that can be left without laying the patient open to the side effects of radical treatment.

Until then the many who are now diagnosed early and tests indicate an organ confined disease of low Gleason score should be offered active surveillance (AS). I suppose the understanding is that if AS is taken up treatment would be undertaken if progression is indicated.

B

[Guest guest]

This discussion reminds me of a piece in Gilbert and Sullivan's comic operetta "The Mikado".

The chorus of which says "he is right and she is right as right as right can be."

True most who get PCa late are diagnosed in later years and die with it.

Also true too many men have PCa in their 40s, 50s or 60s and quite a few of these die of it.

How we long for an approved and proven tests to separate the tigers (agressive and likely to kill) from the sleepy cats that can be left without laying the patient open to the side effects of radical treatment.

Until then the many who are now diagnosed early and tests indicate an organ confined disease of low Gleason score should be offered active surveillance (AS). I suppose the understanding is that if AS is taken up treatment would be undertaken if progression is indicated.

B

[Guest guest]

Hi , (First a disclaimer the below is wrote by a guy 60 year young man on ADT3 whose side effects might be altering my thinking. me) Just needed to give another 2-cents worth. I am a member of CancerCare support group. In the two years of being a member , we have four sessions a year and have maybe 6 to 12 men in the group. I would have to say us prostate cancer guys usually outnumber the other cancers because they are open to all different cancers. Right now we have eight prostate cancers, two esophageal cancers, one rectal cancer, one pancreas cancer . I am the oldest at age 60. We have lost two members this year alone and they were 56 and 57 I believe. Another guy is 54 and his psa is now 1200 he has gone from germany, to mexico, to california, and now tulsa oklahoma for treatment which has failed again. He is currently pondering going to either back to germany ,

korea, or some other places. He went from stage 1 and they thought they got it all to stage 4. We have another member in the same boat and he says the bad news I am stage 4 the good news is I am stage 4 I did not have to go through all those other stages you guys are going through. Maybe we are just a minority of people but we are just as important. I never understand when people argue on these sites that " my opinion is better than yours " . Our members live life to it fullest and never and I mean never argue about treatments. We talk about cancer but mostly we talk about living and we tell jokes to each other. When one member is not participating for just a few days everyone is asking about him. My father just passed and they made a folder just for him and everyone felt he was a member because I talked about him so much. Anyway to get back on the subject, if all of us young members would have known more about aggressive cancers and if my doctor had not

missed my diagnosis since my psa never went higher than 1.8 then maybe we could be like the old men and die of something else instead of prostate cancer. some of our slogans are enjoying life with a big cup of awe. and CCKMA ( cancer can kiss my ass ) I apologize for the profanity. Just my thoughts, Laurel wrote: Hi Terry, I really don't want to quibble with you. I consider you a friend, and support

your advocacy of active surveillance. You said,prostate cancer is an old mens disease, It is in fact - at least as far as killing men is concerned. The median age for death from the disease is still in the mid-80s as it was before the PSA era began. In other words more than half the men who die from PCa are over 80 years of age – and I think most people (other than men over 80) would regard men of 80 as old men. The disease specific mortality rate only really starts climbing after age 70. PCa death under the age of 40 is statistically zero. Check out the SEER site for more detailed information.I say,Having a disease is not the same as dying from a disease. I went to the protonbob site where one can categorize the charts using different criteria. There are now over 4,000 prostate cancer patients who have joined. There is no requirement to join if one has been treated at Loma . I checked on the

membership by age when treated.I estimated that there are 900 members who were treated, in the age group of 40-60. I stopped checking at age 60. Dan Fogleberg's widow would probably take exception to your statements about prostate cancer being an old mens disease. The well known singer died a short time ago at the age of 56.Laurel()

[Guest guest]

Hi , (First a disclaimer the below is wrote by a guy 60 year young man on ADT3 whose side effects might be altering my thinking. me) Just needed to give another 2-cents worth. I am a member of CancerCare support group. In the two years of being a member , we have four sessions a year and have maybe 6 to 12 men in the group. I would have to say us prostate cancer guys usually outnumber the other cancers because they are open to all different cancers. Right now we have eight prostate cancers, two esophageal cancers, one rectal cancer, one pancreas cancer . I am the oldest at age 60. We have lost two members this year alone and they were 56 and 57 I believe. Another guy is 54 and his psa is now 1200 he has gone from germany, to mexico, to california, and now tulsa oklahoma for treatment which has failed again. He is currently pondering going to either back to germany ,

korea, or some other places. He went from stage 1 and they thought they got it all to stage 4. We have another member in the same boat and he says the bad news I am stage 4 the good news is I am stage 4 I did not have to go through all those other stages you guys are going through. Maybe we are just a minority of people but we are just as important. I never understand when people argue on these sites that " my opinion is better than yours " . Our members live life to it fullest and never and I mean never argue about treatments. We talk about cancer but mostly we talk about living and we tell jokes to each other. When one member is not participating for just a few days everyone is asking about him. My father just passed and they made a folder just for him and everyone felt he was a member because I talked about him so much. Anyway to get back on the subject, if all of us young members would have known more about aggressive cancers and if my doctor had not

missed my diagnosis since my psa never went higher than 1.8 then maybe we could be like the old men and die of something else instead of prostate cancer. some of our slogans are enjoying life with a big cup of awe. and CCKMA ( cancer can kiss my ass ) I apologize for the profanity. Just my thoughts, Laurel wrote: Hi Terry, I really don't want to quibble with you. I consider you a friend, and support

your advocacy of active surveillance. You said,prostate cancer is an old mens disease, It is in fact - at least as far as killing men is concerned. The median age for death from the disease is still in the mid-80s as it was before the PSA era began. In other words more than half the men who die from PCa are over 80 years of age – and I think most people (other than men over 80) would regard men of 80 as old men. The disease specific mortality rate only really starts climbing after age 70. PCa death under the age of 40 is statistically zero. Check out the SEER site for more detailed information.I say,Having a disease is not the same as dying from a disease. I went to the protonbob site where one can categorize the charts using different criteria. There are now over 4,000 prostate cancer patients who have joined. There is no requirement to join if one has been treated at Loma . I checked on the

membership by age when treated.I estimated that there are 900 members who were treated, in the age group of 40-60. I stopped checking at age 60. Dan Fogleberg's widow would probably take exception to your statements about prostate cancer being an old mens disease. The well known singer died a short time ago at the age of 56.Laurel()

[Guest guest]

said:

"Anyway to get back on the subject, if all of us young members would have known more about aggressive cancers and if my doctor had not missed my diagnosis since my psa never went higher than 1.8 then maybe we could be like the old men and die of something else instead of prostate cancer."

Right on Broher! Let us all continue to try to educate and inform others,,including the dumb docs that think PSA of up to 4 is "OK" -- I "educated mine with a two page letter including the medical references, and "firing" him after he had been my GP for 30 someodd years!

And please press for early screening! And CCKMA!!!!!

Fuller> Hi Terry, I really don't want to quibble with you. I consider you a > friend, and support your advocacy of active surveillance. You said,> > prostate cancer is an old mens disease, It is in fact - at least as > far as killing men is concerned. The median age for death from the > disease is still in the mid-80s as it was before the PSA era began. > In other words more than half the men who die from PCa are over 80 > years of age – and I think most people (other than men over 80) would > regard men of 80 as old men. The disease specific mortality rate only > really starts climbing after age 70. PCa death under the age of 40 is > statistically zero. Check out the SEER site for more detailed > information.> > I say,> Having a disease is not the same as dying from a disease. I went to > the protonbob site where one can categorize the charts using > different criteria. There are now over 4,000 prostate cancer patients > who have joined. There is no requirement to join if one has been > treated at Loma . I checked on the membership by age when > treated.> > I estimated that there are 900 members who were treated, in the age > group of 40-60. I stopped checking at age 60. > > Dan Fogleberg's widow would probably take exception to your > statements about prostate cancer being an old mens disease. The well > known singer died a short time ago at the age of 56.> > Laurel()>

[Guest guest]

said:

"Anyway to get back on the subject, if all of us young members would have known more about aggressive cancers and if my doctor had not missed my diagnosis since my psa never went higher than 1.8 then maybe we could be like the old men and die of something else instead of prostate cancer."

Right on Broher! Let us all continue to try to educate and inform others,,including the dumb docs that think PSA of up to 4 is "OK" -- I "educated mine with a two page letter including the medical references, and "firing" him after he had been my GP for 30 someodd years!

And please press for early screening! And CCKMA!!!!!

Fuller> Hi Terry, I really don't want to quibble with you. I consider you a > friend, and support your advocacy of active surveillance. You said,> > prostate cancer is an old mens disease, It is in fact - at least as > far as killing men is concerned. The median age for death from the > disease is still in the mid-80s as it was before the PSA era began. > In other words more than half the men who die from PCa are over 80 > years of age – and I think most people (other than men over 80) would > regard men of 80 as old men. The disease specific mortality rate only > really starts climbing after age 70. PCa death under the age of 40 is > statistically zero. Check out the SEER site for more detailed > information.> > I say,> Having a disease is not the same as dying from a disease. I went to > the protonbob site where one can categorize the charts using > different criteria. There are now over 4,000 prostate cancer patients > who have joined. There is no requirement to join if one has been > treated at Loma . I checked on the membership by age when > treated.> > I estimated that there are 900 members who were treated, in the age > group of 40-60. I stopped checking at age 60. > > Dan Fogleberg's widow would probably take exception to your > statements about prostate cancer being an old mens disease. The well > known singer died a short time ago at the age of 56.> > Laurel()>

[Guest guest]

,Keep your chin up, man. You shouldn't be so depressed (only kidding). When I had back surgery in December, the doctor told me that I should not have been able to walk, crawl, or even do anything but complain. When I walked into his office pain free a month after surgery, he could not believe it. I tell him, "You were a good doctor, but the Great Physician helps me get through all of this." A month later, I started peeing blood (indicative of a lot of things). Stay strong and keep the faith!Steve S in Arkansas Re: old mens diseaseHi , (First a disclaimer the below is wrote by a guy 60 year young man on ADT3 whose side effects might be altering my thinking. me) Just needed to give another 2-cents worth. I am a member of CancerCare support group. In the two years of being a member , we have four sessions a year and have maybe 6 to 12 men in the group. I would have to say us prostate cancer guys usually outnumber the other cancers because they are open to all different cancers. Right now we

have eight prostate cancers, two esophageal cancers, one rectal cancer, one pancreas cancer . I am the oldest at age 60. We have lost two members this year alone and they were 56 and 57 I believe. Another guy is 54 and his psa is now 1200 he has gone from germany, to mexico, to california, and now tulsa oklahoma for treatment which has failed again. He is currently pondering going to

either back to germany ,

korea, or some other places. He went from stage 1 and they thought they got it all to stage 4. We have another member in the same boat and he says the bad news I am stage 4 the good news is I am stage 4 I did not have to go through all those other stages you guys are going through. Maybe we are just a minority of people but we are just as important. I never understand when people argue on these sites that " my opinion is better than yours " . Our members live life to it fullest and never and I mean never argue about treatments. We talk about cancer but mostly we talk about living and we tell jokes to each other. When one member is not participating for just a few days everyone is asking about him. My father just passed and they made a folder just for him and everyone felt he was a member because I talked about him so much.Anyway to get back on the subject, if all of us young members would have known more about aggressive cancers and if

my doctor had not

missed my diagnosis since my psa never went higher than 1.8 then maybe we could be like the old men and die of something else instead of prostate cancer. some of our slogans are enjoying life with a big cup of awe. and CCKMA ( cancer can kiss my ass ) I apologize for the profanity. Just my thoughts, Laurel <LaurelFaceaol (DOT) com> wrote:Hi Terry, I really don't want to quibble with you. I consider you a friend, and support

your advocacy of active surveillance. You said,prostate cancer is an old mens disease, It is in fact - at least as far as killing men is concerned. The median age for death from the disease is still in the mid-80s as it was before the PSA era began. In other words more than half the men who die from PCa are over 80 years of age – and I think most people (other than men over 80) would regard men of 80 as old men. The disease specific mortality rate only really starts climbing after age 70. PCa death under the age of 40 is statistically zero. Check out the SEER site for more detailed information.I say,Having a disease is not the same as dying from a disease. I went to the protonbob site where one can categorize the charts using different criteria. There are now over 4,000 prostate cancer patients who have joined. There is no requirement to join if one has been treated at Loma . I

checked on the

membership by age when treated.I estimated that there are 900 members who were treated, in the age group of 40-60. I stopped checking at age 60. Dan Fogleberg's widow would probably take exception to your statements about prostate cancer being an old mens disease. The well known singer died a short time ago at the age of 56.Laurel()

[Guest guest]

,Keep your chin up, man. You shouldn't be so depressed (only kidding). When I had back surgery in December, the doctor told me that I should not have been able to walk, crawl, or even do anything but complain. When I walked into his office pain free a month after surgery, he could not believe it. I tell him, "You were a good doctor, but the Great Physician helps me get through all of this." A month later, I started peeing blood (indicative of a lot of things). Stay strong and keep the faith!Steve S in Arkansas Re: old mens diseaseHi , (First a disclaimer the below is wrote by a guy 60 year young man on ADT3 whose side effects might be altering my thinking. me) Just needed to give another 2-cents worth. I am a member of CancerCare support group. In the two years of being a member , we have four sessions a year and have maybe 6 to 12 men in the group. I would have to say us prostate cancer guys usually outnumber the other cancers because they are open to all different cancers. Right now we

have eight prostate cancers, two esophageal cancers, one rectal cancer, one pancreas cancer . I am the oldest at age 60. We have lost two members this year alone and they were 56 and 57 I believe. Another guy is 54 and his psa is now 1200 he has gone from germany, to mexico, to california, and now tulsa oklahoma for treatment which has failed again. He is currently pondering going to

either back to germany ,

korea, or some other places. He went from stage 1 and they thought they got it all to stage 4. We have another member in the same boat and he says the bad news I am stage 4 the good news is I am stage 4 I did not have to go through all those other stages you guys are going through. Maybe we are just a minority of people but we are just as important. I never understand when people argue on these sites that " my opinion is better than yours " . Our members live life to it fullest and never and I mean never argue about treatments. We talk about cancer but mostly we talk about living and we tell jokes to each other. When one member is not participating for just a few days everyone is asking about him. My father just passed and they made a folder just for him and everyone felt he was a member because I talked about him so much.Anyway to get back on the subject, if all of us young members would have known more about aggressive cancers and if

my doctor had not

missed my diagnosis since my psa never went higher than 1.8 then maybe we could be like the old men and die of something else instead of prostate cancer. some of our slogans are enjoying life with a big cup of awe. and CCKMA ( cancer can kiss my ass ) I apologize for the profanity. Just my thoughts, Laurel <LaurelFaceaol (DOT) com> wrote:Hi Terry, I really don't want to quibble with you. I consider you a friend, and support

your advocacy of active surveillance. You said,prostate cancer is an old mens disease, It is in fact - at least as far as killing men is concerned. The median age for death from the disease is still in the mid-80s as it was before the PSA era began. In other words more than half the men who die from PCa are over 80 years of age – and I think most people (other than men over 80) would regard men of 80 as old men. The disease specific mortality rate only really starts climbing after age 70. PCa death under the age of 40 is statistically zero. Check out the SEER site for more detailed information.I say,Having a disease is not the same as dying from a disease. I went to the protonbob site where one can categorize the charts using different criteria. There are now over 4,000 prostate cancer patients who have joined. There is no requirement to join if one has been treated at Loma . I

checked on the

membership by age when treated.I estimated that there are 900 members who were treated, in the age group of 40-60. I stopped checking at age 60. Dan Fogleberg's widow would probably take exception to your statements about prostate cancer being an old mens disease. The well known singer died a short time ago at the age of 56.Laurel()

[Guest guest]

CCKMA?I bought htis about a month after being diagnosed....I wear it proudly!http://t-shirts.cafepress.com/design/4993436

,Keep your chin up, man. You shouldn't be so depressed (only kidding). When I had back surgery in December, the doctor told me that I should not have been able to walk, crawl, or even do anything but complain. When I walked into his office pain free a month after surgery, he could not believe it. I tell him, " You were a good doctor, but the Great Physician helps me get through all of this. " A month later, I started peeing blood (indicative of a lot of things). Stay strong and keep the faith!

Steve S in Arkansas

Re: old mens diseaseHi , (First a disclaimer the below is wrote by a guy 60 year young man on ADT3 whose side effects might be altering my thinking. me)

Just needed to give another 2-cents worth. I am a member of CancerCare support group. In the two years of being a member , we have four sessions a year and have maybe 6 to 12 men in the group. I would have to say us prostate cancer guys usually outnumber the other cancers because they are open to all different cancers. Right now we

have eight prostate cancers, two esophageal cancers, one rectal cancer, one pancreas cancer . I am the oldest at age 60. We have lost two members this year alone and they were 56 and 57 I believe. Another guy is 54 and his psa is now 1200 he has gone from germany, to mexico, to california, and now tulsa oklahoma for treatment which has failed again. He is currently pondering going to

either back to germany ,

korea, or some other places. He went from stage 1 and they thought they got it all to stage 4. We have another member in the same boat and he says the bad news I am stage 4 the good news is I am stage 4 I did not have to go through all those other stages you guys are going through. Maybe we are just a minority of people but we are just as important. I never understand when people argue on these sites that " my opinion is better than yours " . Our members live life to it fullest and never and I mean never argue about treatments. We talk about cancer but mostly we talk about living and we tell jokes to each other. When one member is not participating for just a few days everyone is asking about him. My father just passed and they made a folder just for him and everyone felt he was a member because I talked about him so much.

Anyway to get back on the subject, if all of us young members would have known more about aggressive cancers and if

my doctor had not

missed my diagnosis since my psa never went higher than 1.8 then maybe we could be like the old men and die of something else instead of prostate cancer. some of our slogans are enjoying life with a big cup of awe. and CCKMA ( cancer can kiss my ass ) I apologize for the profanity.

Just my thoughts, Laurel <LaurelFaceaol (DOT) com> wrote:

Hi Terry, I really don't want to quibble with you. I consider you a friend, and support

your advocacy of active surveillance. You said,prostate cancer is an old mens disease, It is in fact - at least as far as killing men is concerned. The median age for death from the disease is still in the mid-80s as it was before the PSA era began.

In other words more than half the men who die from PCa are over 80 years of age – and I think most people (other than men over 80) would regard men of 80 as old men. The disease specific mortality rate only really starts climbing after age 70. PCa death under the age of 40 is

statistically zero. Check out the SEER site for more detailed information.I say,Having a disease is not the same as dying from a disease. I went to the protonbob site where one can categorize the charts using

different criteria. There are now over 4,000 prostate cancer patients who have joined. There is no requirement to join if one has been treated at Loma . I

checked on the

membership by age when treated.I estimated that there are 900 members who were treated, in the age group of 40-60. I stopped checking at age 60. Dan Fogleberg's widow would probably take exception to your

statements about prostate cancer being an old mens disease. The well known singer died a short time ago at the age of 56.Laurel()

-- Emersonwww.flhw.org

[Guest guest]

CCKMA?I bought htis about a month after being diagnosed....I wear it proudly!http://t-shirts.cafepress.com/design/4993436

,Keep your chin up, man. You shouldn't be so depressed (only kidding). When I had back surgery in December, the doctor told me that I should not have been able to walk, crawl, or even do anything but complain. When I walked into his office pain free a month after surgery, he could not believe it. I tell him, " You were a good doctor, but the Great Physician helps me get through all of this. " A month later, I started peeing blood (indicative of a lot of things). Stay strong and keep the faith!

Steve S in Arkansas

Re: old mens diseaseHi , (First a disclaimer the below is wrote by a guy 60 year young man on ADT3 whose side effects might be altering my thinking. me)

Just needed to give another 2-cents worth. I am a member of CancerCare support group. In the two years of being a member , we have four sessions a year and have maybe 6 to 12 men in the group. I would have to say us prostate cancer guys usually outnumber the other cancers because they are open to all different cancers. Right now we

have eight prostate cancers, two esophageal cancers, one rectal cancer, one pancreas cancer . I am the oldest at age 60. We have lost two members this year alone and they were 56 and 57 I believe. Another guy is 54 and his psa is now 1200 he has gone from germany, to mexico, to california, and now tulsa oklahoma for treatment which has failed again. He is currently pondering going to

either back to germany ,

korea, or some other places. He went from stage 1 and they thought they got it all to stage 4. We have another member in the same boat and he says the bad news I am stage 4 the good news is I am stage 4 I did not have to go through all those other stages you guys are going through. Maybe we are just a minority of people but we are just as important. I never understand when people argue on these sites that " my opinion is better than yours " . Our members live life to it fullest and never and I mean never argue about treatments. We talk about cancer but mostly we talk about living and we tell jokes to each other. When one member is not participating for just a few days everyone is asking about him. My father just passed and they made a folder just for him and everyone felt he was a member because I talked about him so much.

Anyway to get back on the subject, if all of us young members would have known more about aggressive cancers and if

my doctor had not

missed my diagnosis since my psa never went higher than 1.8 then maybe we could be like the old men and die of something else instead of prostate cancer. some of our slogans are enjoying life with a big cup of awe. and CCKMA ( cancer can kiss my ass ) I apologize for the profanity.

Just my thoughts, Laurel <LaurelFaceaol (DOT) com> wrote:

Hi Terry, I really don't want to quibble with you. I consider you a friend, and support

your advocacy of active surveillance. You said,prostate cancer is an old mens disease, It is in fact - at least as far as killing men is concerned. The median age for death from the disease is still in the mid-80s as it was before the PSA era began.

In other words more than half the men who die from PCa are over 80 years of age – and I think most people (other than men over 80) would regard men of 80 as old men. The disease specific mortality rate only really starts climbing after age 70. PCa death under the age of 40 is

statistically zero. Check out the SEER site for more detailed information.I say,Having a disease is not the same as dying from a disease. I went to the protonbob site where one can categorize the charts using

different criteria. There are now over 4,000 prostate cancer patients who have joined. There is no requirement to join if one has been treated at Loma . I

checked on the

membership by age when treated.I estimated that there are 900 members who were treated, in the age group of 40-60. I stopped checking at age 60. Dan Fogleberg's widow would probably take exception to your

statements about prostate cancer being an old mens disease. The well known singer died a short time ago at the age of 56.Laurel()

-- Emersonwww.flhw.org