Re: Normal range

June 2, 2005

Hi Harry,

I'll admit the only study I've read is the DCCT so I haven't seen those

studies saying an A1c below 6.5% reduces the risk for complications even

more. It makes sense, though. So far I've had no complications at all so I'm

of course interested in keeping it that way.

Thanks for correcting me about the Humalog. I thought it peaked at two hours

but you are right, it starts working in ten to fifteen minutes, peaks at

thirty to sixty minutes and is all gone by four hours. I found a nice chart

comparing the action times of all the insulins online.

I think you may be right about the Lantus causing my blood sugars to drop.

I've already cut it back by one unit because I was having frequent lows

during the afternoon and mornings when I woke up, and many times after a low

I will be high at the next meal (probably from overtreating it) so that's

not good. I'm no longer going low now but my blood sugar still drops a bit

between the two-hour reading and the next meal. Last night overnight it

dropped from 6.2 to 4.3 and that was with a 12g carb snack, and the night

before last it dropped from 7.7 to 6.3. There have been other nights I

haven't dropped significanty and some nights I've even gone up (i.e., one

night I went from 6.4 to 7.6) so I'm going to give it a few more nights and

see what the trend is and then maybe cut back another unit or two.

It definitely is like walking a tightrope, but it pays off. Looking at my

readings today compared to six months ago shows an incredible difference

(the difference between staying between 6.2 and 6.7 all day yesterday and

six months ago often being 2.4 and 20.4 in the same day).

Jen

June 2, 2005

Thanks Jen,

Keep us posted on your progress. BTW how much Lantus do you dose at night?

I ask because a type 1 is a lot more sensitive to insulin compared to a type

2, which I am. Presently, I dose 38 units of Lantus at night.

Re: Normal range

> Hi Harry,

>

> I'll admit the only study I've read is the DCCT so I haven't seen those

> studies saying an A1c below 6.5% reduces the risk for complications even

> more. It makes sense, though. So far I've had no complications at all so

> I'm

> of course interested in keeping it that way.

>

> Thanks for correcting me about the Humalog. I thought it peaked at two

> hours

> but you are right, it starts working in ten to fifteen minutes, peaks at

> thirty to sixty minutes and is all gone by four hours. I found a nice

> chart

> comparing the action times of all the insulins online.

>

> I think you may be right about the Lantus causing my blood sugars to drop.

> I've already cut it back by one unit because I was having frequent lows

> during the afternoon and mornings when I woke up, and many times after a

> low

> I will be high at the next meal (probably from overtreating it) so that's

> not good. I'm no longer going low now but my blood sugar still drops a bit

> between the two-hour reading and the next meal. Last night overnight it

> dropped from 6.2 to 4.3 and that was with a 12g carb snack, and the night

> before last it dropped from 7.7 to 6.3. There have been other nights I

> haven't dropped significanty and some nights I've even gone up (i.e., one

> night I went from 6.4 to 7.6) so I'm going to give it a few more nights

> and

> see what the trend is and then maybe cut back another unit or two.

>

> It definitely is like walking a tightrope, but it pays off. Looking at my

> readings today compared to six months ago shows an incredible difference

> (the difference between staying between 6.2 and 6.7 all day yesterday and

> six months ago often being 2.4 and 20.4 in the same day).

>

> Jen

>

June 2, 2005

Hi Harry,

Right now I take 21 units of Lantus at night, but as I said that will

probably go down to 19 or 20 soon if my blood sugar keeps dropping

overnight. I just started on Lantus about a month ago so am still

fine-tuning the dose. When I started on Lantus my endocrinologist gave me 24

units because he said that's what he'd give a newly-diagnosed diabetic and

there was no formula he knew of for transitioning from NPH to Lantus, so he

said to just keep decreasing it until we've found what I need.

Overall my TDD (total daily dose, short- and long-acting together) of

insulin has been decreasing dramatically as I get in control again. It's

gone from being about 85+ units a day six months ago to being 40 units (and

dropping) right now.

I am curious, if you are type 2 and take insulin, does that mean your beta

cells are no longer able to produce it? Does it make you insulin-dependent,

like a type 1?

Jen

June 2, 2005

In August of 2003 I came back to this list serve after several years of

absence. I came back because I was desperate. My A1C was 9.2, and I felt

like I was dieing. My doctor was ignorant about the treatment of diabetics,

since four months before August I had an A1C of 7.2, but he said I was doing

okay, and I just took his word for it. That was a big mistake. The folks

here got me on the right path, and I have stayed on it pretty much since

August of 2003, and in a four month span of time I brought that 9.2 down to

less than 6.0. Most type 2 diabetics in the past usually become insulin

dependent in 10 to 15 years after being initially diagnosed as being a type

2 diabetic. In my case my pancrease finally played out after 16 years after

I was diagnosed as a type 2 diabetic. I was using the oral medication of

Diabeta or the generic name is glyburide. It is an oral medication that

stimulates the pancrease to produce insulin. Well, after 16 years of using

this oral med, the pancrease just finally played out. I do not know the

longevity of type 2 diabetics lasting with the newer oral medications like

metformin, glucotrol, starlix and the like, since they have a different

action on the body, but I hope type 2 diabetics can remain a lot longer

period of time as a type 2 diabetic rather than becoming insulin dependent,

as I am today.

If you are a type 1 diabetic starting off at 24 units of Lantus, I would

think this is a very dangerous dose for any type 1 to start out with. One

unit of Lantus can account for any where to up to a 50 point drop in the bs

for a single unit of Lantus. For a type 1 diabetic it would be much safer,

I think, for the diabetic to start at the recommended dose of 5 units and

work upwards instead of working downwards, but the doctor is God, you know,

and we cannot doubt his word, can we? When it comes to dosing short-acting

insulin like Humalog and Novalog, it is recommended to start out for a type

1 diabetic at a dose of 1 unit per 15 grams of carbs consumed and work

upward to the proper dose, but only the doctor knows for sure <grin>.

Re: Normal range

> Hi Harry,

>

> Right now I take 21 units of Lantus at night, but as I said that will

> probably go down to 19 or 20 soon if my blood sugar keeps dropping

> overnight. I just started on Lantus about a month ago so am still

> fine-tuning the dose. When I started on Lantus my endocrinologist gave me

> 24

> units because he said that's what he'd give a newly-diagnosed diabetic and

> there was no formula he knew of for transitioning from NPH to Lantus, so

> he

> said to just keep decreasing it until we've found what I need.

>

> Overall my TDD (total daily dose, short- and long-acting together) of

> insulin has been decreasing dramatically as I get in control again. It's

> gone from being about 85+ units a day six months ago to being 40 units

> (and

> dropping) right now.

>

> I am curious, if you are type 2 and take insulin, does that mean your beta

> cells are no longer able to produce it? Does it make you

> insulin-dependent,

> like a type 1?

>

> Jen

>

June 2, 2005

Harry:

What you say makes sense. I have only one bone to pick with you -- that

of your hoping people can stay " Type 2 " and not become

insulin-dependent.

As I've said on another list, what's the matter with being

insulin-dependent? Almost every Type 2 I know who has switched from oral

meds to insulin says he/she feels a thousand times better now that

he/she is on insulin. I wouldn't know in that I am that rarity of Type

2's -- one who had a normal fasting glucose and A1C level last summer

(not even pre-diabetic) (2004) and landed in the hospital with HHNS in

March. NO oral meds for me; I was placed immediately on insulin and,

like all the others I know, feel a thousand times better than I did in

February.

Mike Freeman

> In August of 2003 I came back to this list serve after several years of

> absence. I came back because I was desperate. My A1C was 9.2, and I felt

> like I was dieing. My doctor was ignorant about the treatment of diabetics,

> since four months before August I had an A1C of 7.2, but he said I was doing

> okay, and I just took his word for it. That was a big mistake. The folks

> here got me on the right path, and I have stayed on it pretty much since

> August of 2003, and in a four month span of time I brought that 9.2 down to

> less than 6.0. Most type 2 diabetics in the past usually become insulin

> dependent in 10 to 15 years after being initially diagnosed as being a type

> 2 diabetic. In my case my pancrease finally played out after 16 years after

> I was diagnosed as a type 2 diabetic. I was using the oral medication of

> Diabeta or the generic name is glyburide. It is an oral medication that

> stimulates the pancrease to produce insulin. Well, after 16 years of using

> this oral med, the pancrease just finally played out. I do not know the

> longevity of type 2 diabetics lasting with the newer oral medications like

> metformin, glucotrol, starlix and the like, since they have a different

> action on the body, but I hope type 2 diabetics can remain a lot longer

> period of time as a type 2 diabetic rather than becoming insulin dependent,

> as I am today.

>

> If you are a type 1 diabetic starting off at 24 units of Lantus, I would

> think this is a very dangerous dose for any type 1 to start out with. One

> unit of Lantus can account for any where to up to a 50 point drop in the bs

> for a single unit of Lantus. For a type 1 diabetic it would be much safer,

> I think, for the diabetic to start at the recommended dose of 5 units and

> work upwards instead of working downwards, but the doctor is God, you know,

> and we cannot doubt his word, can we? When it comes to dosing short-acting

> insulin like Humalog and Novalog, it is recommended to start out for a type

> 1 diabetic at a dose of 1 unit per 15 grams of carbs consumed and work

> upward to the proper dose, but only the doctor knows for sure <grin>.

> Re: Normal range

>

>> Hi Harry,

>>

>> Right now I take 21 units of Lantus at night, but as I said that will

>> probably go down to 19 or 20 soon if my blood sugar keeps dropping

>> overnight. I just started on Lantus about a month ago so am still

>> fine-tuning the dose. When I started on Lantus my endocrinologist gave me

>> 24

>> units because he said that's what he'd give a newly-diagnosed diabetic and

>> there was no formula he knew of for transitioning from NPH to Lantus, so

>> he

>> said to just keep decreasing it until we've found what I need.

>>

>> Overall my TDD (total daily dose, short- and long-acting together) of

>> insulin has been decreasing dramatically as I get in control again. It's

>> gone from being about 85+ units a day six months ago to being 40 units

>> (and

>> dropping) right now.

>>

>> I am curious, if you are type 2 and take insulin, does that mean your beta

>> cells are no longer able to produce it? Does it make you

>> insulin-dependent,

>> like a type 1?

>>

>> Jen

>>

June 2, 2005

Hi Harry,

I personally think 24 units was a good dose for me to start out at, because

at the time I was taking 62 units of NPH daily (divided into two shots). I

have not had any serious hypos (in fact I've had far fewer hypos with the

Lantus than I have with the NPH), and I think had I started with a dose of 5

units of Lantus my sugars would have skyrocketed. I've read that the basal

insulin in most type 1 diabetics usually makes up 40-60% of the total dose.

Right now I am taking 21 units of Lantus and a total of 19 units of Humalog

most days, so it is pretty even. My doctor did warn me when switching to

test more often and watch for high or low sugars, and he did admit that he

didn't know if this dose would be good. I've been seeing him more often

lately as I find what dose will ultimately work. The other type 1 diabetic I

know takes about 16 units of Lantus a day and from what I have heard other

type 1 diabetics have similar doses (15-20 units). For someone who was newly

diagnosed and in a honeymoon period where the pancreas is still producing

some insulin, 5 units might be good.

I think the amount the blood sugar drops from insulin depends much more on

an individual than on any set rule. I know type 1 diabetics who have a 1:20

insulin-to-carb ratio. My ratio right now seems to be 1:11, though I'm still

fine-tuning that and it may end up being a bit higher. It seems to be going

up as I get better control, because even as of a few weeks ago it was more

like 1:8. When I learned about carb counting at the diabetes clinic I was

given, as you said, the starting point of 1:15 for an insulin-to-carb ratio

and was told to modify it up or down depending on what my readings after

meals were. I've also heard of people not having to eat a bedtime snack with

Lantus because their sugars stay totaly stable overnight. Although this

would be great, I definitely wouldn't go to bed without eating something

right now!

I'm still confused if it's Humalog or Lantus causing my blood sugar to drop

between meals. Maybe it's a combination of both right now. Today two hours

after breakfast I was 7.1 and three hours after I was 4.0, and the next meal

I was 4.1, so this makes me think it's the last of the Humalog causing it

before it stops working, perhaps in combination with the Lantus. Usually if

I have a low blood sugar it occurs about three hours after a meal as well

(assuming it's not from exercise). I should probably note here that I

usually eat the same thing, and thus the same amount of carbs, at most meals

right now as I'm testing the insulin-to-carb ratios (plus I tend to stick

with the same or similar meals when at home anyway). I discovered very

quickly that I do not need snacks with Lantus as I did with NPH. The first

two times I ate an afternoon snack after switching to Lantus I shot up to 15

the first time and 19 the second! I now take a bolus of a unit of Humalog if

I want to eat something above above 10g carbs between meals, and this seems

to work well.

I do not see my doctor as God. *grin* In fact I see him as more of a

consultant and someone I can bounce ideas off of and get ideas from, rather

than someone who dictates what I must do. He is an endocrinologist so more

specialized in diabetes than a regular doctor would be, so I respect that

he's seen dozens of people with diabetes and might spot patterns or issues I

had missed. But I see his advice as just that--advice, not orders. I have

always had this attitude towards doctors and diabetes, probably passed down

from my mom. She recently told me that when I was a kid we'd go to a

pediatrician, and she would often leave thinking that he didn't know what he

was talking about, and we'd go home and totally ignore his advice about

insulin doses and just do our own thing. *grin* I'm enjoying this list,

though, and it's making me think of things I hadn't before, such as my blood

sugar dropping significantly between meals when it perhaps shouldn't be.

Jen

June 2, 2005

I have nothing against a person shooting insulin for the rest of their

lives. I had to get over the fear of injecting a syringe into my body, and

it is still something I don't like, but considering the alternatives, I will

stick to it, no pun intended. Tell me what is HHNS. Apparently when you

wound up in the hospital they did a c-peptide test on you and saw that your

pancrease was producing no insulin or other wise, I doubt they would have

put you on insulin right away. However if they saw that your pancrease was

not living up to its end of the bargain, then they had very little choice

but to do so.

Now when it comes to me injecting insulin, I can say without a doubt I went

from feeling tired, exhausted and absolutely having no energy to feeling

just fine in a matter of a few weeks once I started using insulin.

Re: Normal range

>>

>>> Hi Harry,

>>>

>>> Right now I take 21 units of Lantus at night, but as I said that will

>>> probably go down to 19 or 20 soon if my blood sugar keeps dropping

>>> overnight. I just started on Lantus about a month ago so am still

>>> fine-tuning the dose. When I started on Lantus my endocrinologist gave

>>> me

>>> 24

>>> units because he said that's what he'd give a newly-diagnosed diabetic

>>> and

>>> there was no formula he knew of for transitioning from NPH to Lantus, so

>>> he

>>> said to just keep decreasing it until we've found what I need.

>>>

>>> Overall my TDD (total daily dose, short- and long-acting together) of

>>> insulin has been decreasing dramatically as I get in control again. It's

>>> gone from being about 85+ units a day six months ago to being 40 units

>>> (and

>>> dropping) right now.

>>>

>>> I am curious, if you are type 2 and take insulin, does that mean your

>>> beta

>>> cells are no longer able to produce it? Does it make you

>>> insulin-dependent,

>>> like a type 1?

>>>

>>> Jen

>>>

June 2, 2005

It sounds like you are being very wise and sticking to a fixed Carb intake

while adjusting your Humalog dose. I wish I could convince another person

here to do that. That is always the wisest thing to do. When it comes to

medications of any type, the rule of thumb for safety is always to work

upwards in the dose rather than downwards. When it comes to insulin one is

less likely to die immediately of an underdose of insulin rather than an

overdose, which can in rare cases cause instant death. A smart person

learns from his own mistakes. A wise person learns from the mistakes of

others.

What is your bedtime bs reading? How does it compare with your fasting bs

in the morning? This would be good information for you to know about your

body. If your bs is around 8 or so at bedtime and you do not consume any

carbs, then the morning fasting bs is primarily caused by the Lantus dose,

and this will give you a pretty good idea as to how Lantus is affecting your

body.

Re: Normal range

> Hi Harry,

>

> I personally think 24 units was a good dose for me to start out at,

> because

> at the time I was taking 62 units of NPH daily (divided into two shots). I

> have not had any serious hypos (in fact I've had far fewer hypos with the

> Lantus than I have with the NPH), and I think had I started with a dose of

> 5

> units of Lantus my sugars would have skyrocketed. I've read that the basal

> insulin in most type 1 diabetics usually makes up 40-60% of the total

> dose.

> Right now I am taking 21 units of Lantus and a total of 19 units of

> Humalog

> most days, so it is pretty even. My doctor did warn me when switching to

> test more often and watch for high or low sugars, and he did admit that he

> didn't know if this dose would be good. I've been seeing him more often

> lately as I find what dose will ultimately work. The other type 1 diabetic

> I

> know takes about 16 units of Lantus a day and from what I have heard other

> type 1 diabetics have similar doses (15-20 units). For someone who was

> newly

> diagnosed and in a honeymoon period where the pancreas is still producing

> some insulin, 5 units might be good.

>

> I think the amount the blood sugar drops from insulin depends much more on

> an individual than on any set rule. I know type 1 diabetics who have a

> 1:20

> insulin-to-carb ratio. My ratio right now seems to be 1:11, though I'm

> still

> fine-tuning that and it may end up being a bit higher. It seems to be

> going

> up as I get better control, because even as of a few weeks ago it was more

> like 1:8. When I learned about carb counting at the diabetes clinic I was

> given, as you said, the starting point of 1:15 for an insulin-to-carb

> ratio

> and was told to modify it up or down depending on what my readings after

> meals were. I've also heard of people not having to eat a bedtime snack

> with

> Lantus because their sugars stay totaly stable overnight. Although this

> would be great, I definitely wouldn't go to bed without eating something

> right now!

>

> I'm still confused if it's Humalog or Lantus causing my blood sugar to

> drop

> between meals. Maybe it's a combination of both right now. Today two hours

> after breakfast I was 7.1 and three hours after I was 4.0, and the next

> meal

> I was 4.1, so this makes me think it's the last of the Humalog causing it

> before it stops working, perhaps in combination with the Lantus. Usually

> if

> I have a low blood sugar it occurs about three hours after a meal as well

> (assuming it's not from exercise). I should probably note here that I

> usually eat the same thing, and thus the same amount of carbs, at most

> meals

> right now as I'm testing the insulin-to-carb ratios (plus I tend to stick

> with the same or similar meals when at home anyway). I discovered very

> quickly that I do not need snacks with Lantus as I did with NPH. The first

> two times I ate an afternoon snack after switching to Lantus I shot up to

> 15

> the first time and 19 the second! I now take a bolus of a unit of Humalog

> if

> I want to eat something above above 10g carbs between meals, and this

> seems

> to work well.

>

> I do not see my doctor as God. *grin* In fact I see him as more of a

> consultant and someone I can bounce ideas off of and get ideas from,

> rather

> than someone who dictates what I must do. He is an endocrinologist so more

> specialized in diabetes than a regular doctor would be, so I respect that

> he's seen dozens of people with diabetes and might spot patterns or issues

> I

> had missed. But I see his advice as just that--advice, not orders. I have

> always had this attitude towards doctors and diabetes, probably passed

> down

> from my mom. She recently told me that when I was a kid we'd go to a

> pediatrician, and she would often leave thinking that he didn't know what

> he

> was talking about, and we'd go home and totally ignore his advice about

> insulin doses and just do our own thing. *grin* I'm enjoying this list,

> though, and it's making me think of things I hadn't before, such as my

> blood

> sugar dropping significantly between meals when it perhaps shouldn't be.

>

> Jen

>

June 2, 2005

<<BIG GRIN>>

Here's the definition of HHNS from the Spring, 2005, deition of NFB's

" Voice of the Diabetic " :

*****

Hyperglycemic Hyperosmolar Nonketotic Syndrome (HHNS): a

condition

that starts when the blood glucose is high over a long time in someone

with type 2 diabetes. The person does not have any ketones in the

blood, because there is still some insulin in the system. But the

person has very high blood sugar (in the 800s or even higher), has

lost a lot of fluid, and is dehydrated. Therefore, the blood is very

concentrated. This is a medical emergency, and can be fatal. The

person should go to a hospital for treatment.

*****

Elsewhere, I have read that one of the symptoms of HHNS is severe leg

cramps and I had them before 911 was called and I was whizzed off to the

hospital. I could walk fine for a few steps, then my left leg would

collapse in a seizure-like fashion although I wasn't having a seizure.

By the time I got to the hhospital, I believe that I was going into

diabetic ketoacidosis as one could smell the acitone on my breath -- but

I wasn't nauseated as many people are. So I suspect you're correct in

that I was tested and my pancreas had said " Uncle! " . I was immediately

slapped on an intravenous insulin drip for two days and then switched to

injections and told: " Fella! You're on insulin from now on! "

I count myself *very* lucky in that I progressed so fast that I have no

diabetic complications and statins (I was already on an ACE-inhibitor

for high blood pressure) have brought all measurements well within the

normal range. I get my first A1C results by this weekend.

Incidentally, although the definition above quotes bG readings of as

high as 1000 mg/dl with HHNS (divice by 18 to get the moles), I was down

for the count at something over 500. My body just doesn't dig them high

blood glucose levels!

Mike Freeman

> I have nothing against a person shooting insulin for the rest of their

> lives. I had to get over the fear of injecting a syringe into my body, and

> it is still something I don't like, but considering the alternatives, I will

> stick to it, no pun intended. Tell me what is HHNS. Apparently when you

> wound up in the hospital they did a c-peptide test on you and saw that your

> pancrease was producing no insulin or other wise, I doubt they would have

> put you on insulin right away. However if they saw that your pancrease was

> not living up to its end of the bargain, then they had very little choice

> but to do so.

> Now when it comes to me injecting insulin, I can say without a doubt I went

> from feeling tired, exhausted and absolutely having no energy to feeling

> just fine in a matter of a few weeks once I started using insulin.

> Re: Normal range

>>>

>>>> Hi Harry,

>>>>

>>>> Right now I take 21 units of Lantus at night, but as I said that will

>>>> probably go down to 19 or 20 soon if my blood sugar keeps dropping

>>>> overnight. I just started on Lantus about a month ago so am still

>>>> fine-tuning the dose. When I started on Lantus my endocrinologist gave

>>>> me

>>>> 24

>>>> units because he said that's what he'd give a newly-diagnosed diabetic

>>>> and

>>>> there was no formula he knew of for transitioning from NPH to Lantus, so

>>>> he

>>>> said to just keep decreasing it until we've found what I need.

>>>>

>>>> Overall my TDD (total daily dose, short- and long-acting together) of

>>>> insulin has been decreasing dramatically as I get in control again. It's

>>>> gone from being about 85+ units a day six months ago to being 40 units

>>>> (and

>>>> dropping) right now.

>>>>

>>>> I am curious, if you are type 2 and take insulin, does that mean your

>>>> beta

>>>> cells are no longer able to produce it? Does it make you

>>>> insulin-dependent,

>>>> like a type 1?

>>>>

>>>> Jen

>>>>

June 3, 2005

Hi Harry,

For the past few nights I've gone from 6.4 to 7.6, from 7.7 to 6.3,

and from 6.2 to 4.3, so overall it seems like I'm dropping overnight.

I eat a 12g carb snack before bed. I'm still having a few lows between

meals, and when I go low I'm often high at the next meal. If my blood

sugar drops overnight again tonight I will reduce my Lantus tomorrow

night and also talk to my doctor when I go next week.

Jen

June 3, 2005

Your bedtime snack is almost equivalent to one of my regular meal time carb

consumptions, since I strive to consume 15 grams of carbs at each meal. If

your fasting bs are that low in the morning, then it may be a good thing you

are consuming all that carbs. ly, I would think reducing the Lantus

would be a better strategy and dosing short-acting insulin for carb

consumption. Until you have a better Lantus dose figured out, I don't blame

you for eating carbs at bedtime, since going into a diabetic coma during the

night is not a good thing to experience.

Re: Normal range

> Hi Harry,

>

> For the past few nights I've gone from 6.4 to 7.6, from 7.7 to 6.3,

> and from 6.2 to 4.3, so overall it seems like I'm dropping overnight.

> I eat a 12g carb snack before bed. I'm still having a few lows between

> meals, and when I go low I'm often high at the next meal. If my blood

> sugar drops overnight again tonight I will reduce my Lantus tomorrow

> night and also talk to my doctor when I go next week.

>

> Jen

>

June 3, 2005

Thanks Mike,

Your message is a keeper, since I never heard of HHSN or is that HHNS before

now. It is a new one on me. The amazing thing about life is for some

reason I learn something new practically every day. Of course at my age I

forget two things for every new thing I learn. By the time I die, I figure

out that things will be just about even.<smile>

How long have you been using statin drugs? Have you suffered with leg

cramps for a long time? What is your cholesterol level? Do you take

niacin?

Well, I understand how you feel, since you are having to say goodbye to all

that ice cream, cakes, pies and cookies plus all that beer, which is one of

my loves, but on this diet I am on, I cannot drink a decent beer. One thing

for sure; you are going to feel a lot better when it stops hurting.

Re: Normal range

>>>>

>>>>> Hi Harry,

>>>>>

>>>>> Right now I take 21 units of Lantus at night, but as I said that will

>>>>> probably go down to 19 or 20 soon if my blood sugar keeps dropping

>>>>> overnight. I just started on Lantus about a month ago so am still

>>>>> fine-tuning the dose. When I started on Lantus my endocrinologist gave

>>>>> me

>>>>> 24

>>>>> units because he said that's what he'd give a newly-diagnosed diabetic

>>>>> and

>>>>> there was no formula he knew of for transitioning from NPH to Lantus,

>>>>> so

>>>>> he

>>>>> said to just keep decreasing it until we've found what I need.

>>>>>

>>>>> Overall my TDD (total daily dose, short- and long-acting together) of

>>>>> insulin has been decreasing dramatically as I get in control again.

>>>>> It's

>>>>> gone from being about 85+ units a day six months ago to being 40 units

>>>>> (and

>>>>> dropping) right now.

>>>>>

>>>>> I am curious, if you are type 2 and take insulin, does that mean your

>>>>> beta

>>>>> cells are no longer able to produce it? Does it make you

>>>>> insulin-dependent,

>>>>> like a type 1?

>>>>>

>>>>> Jen

>>>>>

June 3, 2005

Thanks Mike,

Your message is a keeper, since I never heard of HHSN or is that HHNS before

now. It is a new one on me. The amazing thing about life is for some

reason I learn something new practically every day. Of course at my age I

forget two things for every new thing I learn. By the time I die, I figure

out that things will be just about even.<smile>

How long have you been using statin drugs? Have you suffered with leg

cramps for a long time? What is your cholesterol level? Do you take

niacin?

Well, I understand how you feel, since you are having to say goodbye to all

that ice cream, cakes, pies and cookies plus all that beer, which is one of

my loves, but on this diet I am on, I cannot drink a decent beer. One thing

for sure; you are going to feel a lot better when it stops hurting.

Re: Normal range

>>>>

>>>>> Hi Harry,

>>>>>

>>>>> Right now I take 21 units of Lantus at night, but as I said that will

>>>>> probably go down to 19 or 20 soon if my blood sugar keeps dropping

>>>>> overnight. I just started on Lantus about a month ago so am still

>>>>> fine-tuning the dose. When I started on Lantus my endocrinologist gave

>>>>> me

>>>>> 24

>>>>> units because he said that's what he'd give a newly-diagnosed diabetic

>>>>> and

>>>>> there was no formula he knew of for transitioning from NPH to Lantus,

>>>>> so

>>>>> he

>>>>> said to just keep decreasing it until we've found what I need.

>>>>>

>>>>> Overall my TDD (total daily dose, short- and long-acting together) of

>>>>> insulin has been decreasing dramatically as I get in control again.

>>>>> It's

>>>>> gone from being about 85+ units a day six months ago to being 40 units

>>>>> (and

>>>>> dropping) right now.

>>>>>

>>>>> I am curious, if you are type 2 and take insulin, does that mean your

>>>>> beta

>>>>> cells are no longer able to produce it? Does it make you

>>>>> insulin-dependent,

>>>>> like a type 1?

>>>>>

>>>>> Jen

>>>>>

June 3, 2005

Hi there!

Would you believe I've forgotten the cholesterol and triglyceride levels at

the moment; they're in a file I keep for lab reports. But they were well

into the " normal " range. My BP was 120/70.

I was put on statins at the same time I went on insulin as my triglycerides

were off the map.

I only had leg cramps just before I went into the hospital and for the first

couple hours till they gave me a muscle relaxant. When I went in, my BP was

off the map, too, with dyastolic pressure around 100. I had seen my own

physician just two days before; at that time, I was not in ketoacidosis and

my lab reports were due that Monday. But it all caught up with me while I

was on a trip to Seattle, 180 miles away from home (Vancouver, Washington).

Haven't taken any vitamin suppliments yet.

As for forgetting as much as goes in, brother, I hear you! (grin) And I

sorely miss bourbon! Yee ha!

Mike

Re: Normal range

>>>>>

>>>>>> Hi Harry,

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Right now I take 21 units of Lantus at night, but as I said that will

>>>>>> probably go down to 19 or 20 soon if my blood sugar keeps dropping

>>>>>> overnight. I just started on Lantus about a month ago so am still

>>>>>> fine-tuning the dose. When I started on Lantus my endocrinologist

>>>>>> gave

>>>>>> me

>>>>>> 24

>>>>>> units because he said that's what he'd give a newly-diagnosed

>>>>>> diabetic

>>>>>> and

>>>>>> there was no formula he knew of for transitioning from NPH to Lantus,

>>>>>> so

>>>>>> he

>>>>>> said to just keep decreasing it until we've found what I need.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Overall my TDD (total daily dose, short- and long-acting together) of

>>>>>> insulin has been decreasing dramatically as I get in control again.

>>>>>> It's

>>>>>> gone from being about 85+ units a day six months ago to being 40

>>>>>> units

>>>>>> (and

>>>>>> dropping) right now.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I am curious, if you are type 2 and take insulin, does that mean your

>>>>>> beta

>>>>>> cells are no longer able to produce it? Does it make you

>>>>>> insulin-dependent,

>>>>>> like a type 1?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Jen

>>>>>>

June 3, 2005

How long had you been taking statin drugs before you experienced leg cramps?

I ask because I have had leg cramps for over 50 years, and it has caused

many a night of walking the floors, but rarely now. I know the secret for

keeping them away. All you need is a doctor who will write the prescription

for you.

Re: Normal range

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Hi Harry,

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Right now I take 21 units of Lantus at night, but as I said that

>>>>>>> will

>>>>>>> probably go down to 19 or 20 soon if my blood sugar keeps dropping

>>>>>>> overnight. I just started on Lantus about a month ago so am still

>>>>>>> fine-tuning the dose. When I started on Lantus my endocrinologist

>>>>>>> gave

>>>>>>> me

>>>>>>> 24

>>>>>>> units because he said that's what he'd give a newly-diagnosed

>>>>>>> diabetic

>>>>>>> and

>>>>>>> there was no formula he knew of for transitioning from NPH to

>>>>>>> Lantus,

>>>>>>> so

>>>>>>> he

>>>>>>> said to just keep decreasing it until we've found what I need.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Overall my TDD (total daily dose, short- and long-acting together)

>>>>>>> of

>>>>>>> insulin has been decreasing dramatically as I get in control again.

>>>>>>> It's

>>>>>>> gone from being about 85+ units a day six months ago to being 40

>>>>>>> units

>>>>>>> (and

>>>>>>> dropping) right now.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I am curious, if you are type 2 and take insulin, does that mean

>>>>>>> your

>>>>>>> beta

>>>>>>> cells are no longer able to produce it? Does it make you

>>>>>>> insulin-dependent,

>>>>>>> like a type 1?

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Jen

>>>>>>>

June 3, 2005

How long had you been taking statin drugs before you experienced leg cramps?

I ask because I have had leg cramps for over 50 years, and it has caused

many a night of walking the floors, but rarely now. I know the secret for

keeping them away. All you need is a doctor who will write the prescription

for you.

Re: Normal range

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Hi Harry,

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Right now I take 21 units of Lantus at night, but as I said that

>>>>>>> will

>>>>>>> probably go down to 19 or 20 soon if my blood sugar keeps dropping

>>>>>>> overnight. I just started on Lantus about a month ago so am still

>>>>>>> fine-tuning the dose. When I started on Lantus my endocrinologist

>>>>>>> gave

>>>>>>> me

>>>>>>> 24

>>>>>>> units because he said that's what he'd give a newly-diagnosed

>>>>>>> diabetic

>>>>>>> and

>>>>>>> there was no formula he knew of for transitioning from NPH to

>>>>>>> Lantus,

>>>>>>> so

>>>>>>> he

>>>>>>> said to just keep decreasing it until we've found what I need.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Overall my TDD (total daily dose, short- and long-acting together)

>>>>>>> of

>>>>>>> insulin has been decreasing dramatically as I get in control again.

>>>>>>> It's

>>>>>>> gone from being about 85+ units a day six months ago to being 40

>>>>>>> units

>>>>>>> (and

>>>>>>> dropping) right now.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I am curious, if you are type 2 and take insulin, does that mean

>>>>>>> your

>>>>>>> beta

>>>>>>> cells are no longer able to produce it? Does it make you

>>>>>>> insulin-dependent,

>>>>>>> like a type 1?

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Jen

>>>>>>>

June 3, 2005

My bedtime snack now is actually smaller than the one I ate when I was

on NPH. I do think my Lantus will end up at a lower dose than I am

taking now. I'm just glad I'm not having anymore hypos in the middle

of the night. Luckily I always wake up for them, but waking up at 2.1

or so isn't fun. My morning readings were also all over the place with

NPH with no rhyme nor reason to them. When I was on NPH I also went

low a lot if I tried skipping a snack or eating a late meal, so

overall the past month with Lantus has been a lot more stable even if

it's not the correct dose yet. When I switched from Regular to Humalog

in 1996 or '97 the same thing happened with weird readings for the

first month or two until the dose was right. As long as I am not

having serious lows I'm going to cut back slowly a unit or two every

couple of days so I can find exactly what a good dose is.

With Lantus is the ultimate goal to be able to go to bed at say 5.4

and wake up with something like 5.5, without a snack? Some people I

know eat bedtime snacks and some do not, my doctor said that I should

for at least the first while until I know exactly how it affects me

overnight.

Are you on a low-carb diet? Do you take insulin (Humalog/NovoLog) at

meals when they are so few carbs? 15g carbs for me is usually

considered a snack, and I take 1 unit of Humalog to cover those if I

eat a snack like that. Most of my meals are 30-50g carbs, depending on

what I eat, and some are more if I eat out.

Jen

June 3, 2005