Guest guest Posted October 17, 1999 Report Share Posted October 17, 1999 Hi Matt, Pleased to meet you. As one of the crowd mentioned, there are a host of other psycho tropics in the sorotonin reuptake inhibitor class of medications. I found Prozac and Paxil to be a bit on the potent side. However Zoloft(often classified as Prozac lite) was quite effective at lifting me out of the hideous post-cocaine, early 12 step quandary I found myself in. In fact I was taking half the therapeutic dosage and still achieving great results. It really is a bit of an inexact science, and tends to boil down to a process of elimination. It tends to be different for everybody. Some need the meds for life. I just needed a boost out of the pit I was in, and I have been off them for six years now. It can be disheartening experimenting with various meds but most people end up finding a viable regimen with a little patience. I also understand how patience can get worn a little thin by the unpleasant side effects of some of these medications. Hang in there buddy, they're a lot easier to take than the side effects of 10 years of AA. MD Matt wrote: > > Hi all! Thanks for your responses to my multiple postings Friday night. I > feel a lot a better today. Looking back, I was just having a bad night. By > bad I mean pretty scary. I've come to realize that the prozac is making me > feel better. And that scares the crap out of me. For about a year I've > been in so much physical and mental anguish I couldn't see straight. Now, > I'm feeling better. And I don't know what to do with myself! > That's the scary thing about depression or misery. I've almost > become dependent on my life being hell. So, in my post where I lashed out > at prozac and the world I was trying to go back. I wanted to go back to > what was familiar for me: feeling awful. Really, last night, I'd decided I > was going to stop prozac and return to AA, find a really mean sponsor and > just shut my mouth! Luckily, I realized tonight that I would be selling > myself short. > Anyway, thanks for being understanding. My hard work has just > begun. But I really want to fight for my happiness. I know its not gonna > be easy keeping with my meds and therapy. But I've got to stick with it. > Unless I want to be miserable forever. Matt > > ______________________________________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Power, 3D graphics, and fun! Experience for yourself why Sega Dreamcast > is the most talked about video game system of the year. Order yours > today! Visit KBkids.com at: http://clickhere./click/1178 > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 1999 Report Share Posted October 17, 1999 Hi Matt, Pleased to meet you. As one of the crowd mentioned, there are a host of other psycho tropics in the sorotonin reuptake inhibitor class of medications. I found Prozac and Paxil to be a bit on the potent side. However Zoloft(often classified as Prozac lite) was quite effective at lifting me out of the hideous post-cocaine, early 12 step quandary I found myself in. In fact I was taking half the therapeutic dosage and still achieving great results. It really is a bit of an inexact science, and tends to boil down to a process of elimination. It tends to be different for everybody. Some need the meds for life. I just needed a boost out of the pit I was in, and I have been off them for six years now. It can be disheartening experimenting with various meds but most people end up finding a viable regimen with a little patience. I also understand how patience can get worn a little thin by the unpleasant side effects of some of these medications. Hang in there buddy, they're a lot easier to take than the side effects of 10 years of AA. MD Matt wrote: > > Hi all! Thanks for your responses to my multiple postings Friday night. I > feel a lot a better today. Looking back, I was just having a bad night. By > bad I mean pretty scary. I've come to realize that the prozac is making me > feel better. And that scares the crap out of me. For about a year I've > been in so much physical and mental anguish I couldn't see straight. Now, > I'm feeling better. And I don't know what to do with myself! > That's the scary thing about depression or misery. I've almost > become dependent on my life being hell. So, in my post where I lashed out > at prozac and the world I was trying to go back. I wanted to go back to > what was familiar for me: feeling awful. Really, last night, I'd decided I > was going to stop prozac and return to AA, find a really mean sponsor and > just shut my mouth! Luckily, I realized tonight that I would be selling > myself short. > Anyway, thanks for being understanding. My hard work has just > begun. But I really want to fight for my happiness. I know its not gonna > be easy keeping with my meds and therapy. But I've got to stick with it. > Unless I want to be miserable forever. Matt > > ______________________________________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Power, 3D graphics, and fun! Experience for yourself why Sega Dreamcast > is the most talked about video game system of the year. Order yours > today! Visit KBkids.com at: http://clickhere./click/1178 > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 1999 Report Share Posted October 18, 1999 Hi, Matt-- Glad to hear things are going a little better for you. I tried Prozac several years ago, had a lousy time with it, and then tried Zoloft for a while--it was very helpful, but eventually I elected to quit taking it. I think it helped me get through a rough time of being very depressed and full of self-doubt; it was the boost I needed to get over the depressive paralysis that kept me from changing my life. I'm definitely depressive, and still have my black moods, some of them pretty severe, but I'm functional in spite of them. By the time I got off Zoloft I had managed to build up at least a basic sense of competency and self-esteem, and was a lot less likely to throw my hands up and say " what's the use? " when faced with changing my life. It's odd, though--that dependency on misery. I used to let the darkness in my head do its thing, despite the mess it was making of my life. It seemed so much easier to just give myself over to it than to get out of bed and out into the world; I was miserable, but I knew what to expect from it--there was a certain safety in that. AA intensified the focus on failure and powerlessness I already held, and encouraged the obsessive negativity that kept me endlessly running over the hopelessness of my life. But I was sober! Blaaaggghhh! Yeah, feeling good for the first time can be scary--but I don't think anyone here will smugly inform you that you're merely on a " pink cloud " . You sound like you're on the right track, and you may be surprised at how quickly the AA crap starts to fall away now that you're not around it all the time. Taking up an activity that you always wanted to try but never thought you could helps a lot, and depending on what you do, it's also a good way to meet non-AA people. Seeing your progress and watching yourself get good at something does wonders, too, hokey as it sounds. I wish you all the best-- Take care, . > Hi all! Thanks for your responses to my multiple postings Friday night. I > feel a lot a better today. Looking back, I was just having a bad night. By > bad I mean pretty scary. I've come to realize that the prozac is making me > feel better. And that scares the crap out of me. For about a year I've > been in so much physical and mental anguish I couldn't see straight. Now, > I'm feeling better. And I don't know what to do with myself! > That's the scary thing about depression or misery. I've almost > become dependent on my life being hell. So, in my post where I lashed out > at prozac and the world I was trying to go back. I wanted to go back to > what was familiar for me: feeling awful. Really, last night, I'd decided I > was going to stop prozac and return to AA, find a really mean sponsor and > just shut my mouth! Luckily, I realized tonight that I would be selling > myself short. > Anyway, thanks for being understanding. My hard work has just > begun. But I really want to fight for my happiness. I know its not gonna > be easy keeping with my meds and therapy. But I've got to stick with it. > Unless I want to be miserable forever. Matt > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 1999 Report Share Posted October 18, 1999 Hi, Matt-- Glad to hear things are going a little better for you. I tried Prozac several years ago, had a lousy time with it, and then tried Zoloft for a while--it was very helpful, but eventually I elected to quit taking it. I think it helped me get through a rough time of being very depressed and full of self-doubt; it was the boost I needed to get over the depressive paralysis that kept me from changing my life. I'm definitely depressive, and still have my black moods, some of them pretty severe, but I'm functional in spite of them. By the time I got off Zoloft I had managed to build up at least a basic sense of competency and self-esteem, and was a lot less likely to throw my hands up and say " what's the use? " when faced with changing my life. It's odd, though--that dependency on misery. I used to let the darkness in my head do its thing, despite the mess it was making of my life. It seemed so much easier to just give myself over to it than to get out of bed and out into the world; I was miserable, but I knew what to expect from it--there was a certain safety in that. AA intensified the focus on failure and powerlessness I already held, and encouraged the obsessive negativity that kept me endlessly running over the hopelessness of my life. But I was sober! Blaaaggghhh! Yeah, feeling good for the first time can be scary--but I don't think anyone here will smugly inform you that you're merely on a " pink cloud " . You sound like you're on the right track, and you may be surprised at how quickly the AA crap starts to fall away now that you're not around it all the time. Taking up an activity that you always wanted to try but never thought you could helps a lot, and depending on what you do, it's also a good way to meet non-AA people. Seeing your progress and watching yourself get good at something does wonders, too, hokey as it sounds. I wish you all the best-- Take care, . > Hi all! Thanks for your responses to my multiple postings Friday night. I > feel a lot a better today. Looking back, I was just having a bad night. By > bad I mean pretty scary. I've come to realize that the prozac is making me > feel better. And that scares the crap out of me. For about a year I've > been in so much physical and mental anguish I couldn't see straight. Now, > I'm feeling better. And I don't know what to do with myself! > That's the scary thing about depression or misery. I've almost > become dependent on my life being hell. So, in my post where I lashed out > at prozac and the world I was trying to go back. I wanted to go back to > what was familiar for me: feeling awful. Really, last night, I'd decided I > was going to stop prozac and return to AA, find a really mean sponsor and > just shut my mouth! Luckily, I realized tonight that I would be selling > myself short. > Anyway, thanks for being understanding. My hard work has just > begun. But I really want to fight for my happiness. I know its not gonna > be easy keeping with my meds and therapy. But I've got to stick with it. > Unless I want to be miserable forever. Matt > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 1999 Report Share Posted October 18, 1999 Hi, Matt-- Glad to hear things are going a little better for you. I tried Prozac several years ago, had a lousy time with it, and then tried Zoloft for a while--it was very helpful, but eventually I elected to quit taking it. I think it helped me get through a rough time of being very depressed and full of self-doubt; it was the boost I needed to get over the depressive paralysis that kept me from changing my life. I'm definitely depressive, and still have my black moods, some of them pretty severe, but I'm functional in spite of them. By the time I got off Zoloft I had managed to build up at least a basic sense of competency and self-esteem, and was a lot less likely to throw my hands up and say " what's the use? " when faced with changing my life. It's odd, though--that dependency on misery. I used to let the darkness in my head do its thing, despite the mess it was making of my life. It seemed so much easier to just give myself over to it than to get out of bed and out into the world; I was miserable, but I knew what to expect from it--there was a certain safety in that. AA intensified the focus on failure and powerlessness I already held, and encouraged the obsessive negativity that kept me endlessly running over the hopelessness of my life. But I was sober! Blaaaggghhh! Yeah, feeling good for the first time can be scary--but I don't think anyone here will smugly inform you that you're merely on a " pink cloud " . You sound like you're on the right track, and you may be surprised at how quickly the AA crap starts to fall away now that you're not around it all the time. Taking up an activity that you always wanted to try but never thought you could helps a lot, and depending on what you do, it's also a good way to meet non-AA people. Seeing your progress and watching yourself get good at something does wonders, too, hokey as it sounds. I wish you all the best-- Take care, . > Hi all! Thanks for your responses to my multiple postings Friday night. I > feel a lot a better today. Looking back, I was just having a bad night. By > bad I mean pretty scary. I've come to realize that the prozac is making me > feel better. And that scares the crap out of me. For about a year I've > been in so much physical and mental anguish I couldn't see straight. Now, > I'm feeling better. And I don't know what to do with myself! > That's the scary thing about depression or misery. I've almost > become dependent on my life being hell. So, in my post where I lashed out > at prozac and the world I was trying to go back. I wanted to go back to > what was familiar for me: feeling awful. Really, last night, I'd decided I > was going to stop prozac and return to AA, find a really mean sponsor and > just shut my mouth! Luckily, I realized tonight that I would be selling > myself short. > Anyway, thanks for being understanding. My hard work has just > begun. But I really want to fight for my happiness. I know its not gonna > be easy keeping with my meds and therapy. But I've got to stick with it. > Unless I want to be miserable forever. Matt > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 1999 Report Share Posted October 18, 1999 Hi Matt. It sounds like you are really suffering. When I was on Prozac I would go through stages where I could not, absolutely could not, leave the house. So they upped the dosage. At the end, I was on 80 mgs. I was suicidal, etc. So I for what it's worth, I am out here sympathizing my heart out for you. Hang in there. Kathy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 1999 Report Share Posted October 18, 1999 Matt, , group etc. Having been prescribed many various psychactive pharmacological drugs in past years and experiencing the many side-effects that are present when on these drug maintenance programs, I sought out other substances that would allow me relief from my depression and anxiety. Two natural and more body friendly natural compounds that have had few to none side-effects are kava kava, valerian root or their combination. They have taken the edge off many of my self-imposed temporary situational psychological problems that I have struggled with in the past and have given me the time that I needed to gain a different perspective on an often irrational issue. Although the drugs like prozac (SSRI'S) work for many people, they do have some rather undisirable side-effects that rendered me somewhat dysfunctional or " space out " . Problem is with kava and valerian is that you have to take a handful of the damn things to benefit! Re: A Better Day > Hi, Matt-- > Glad to hear things are going a little better for you. I tried Prozac > several years ago, had a lousy time with it, and then tried Zoloft for > a while--it was very helpful, but eventually I elected to quit taking > it. I think it helped me get through a rough time of being very > depressed > and full of self-doubt; it was the boost I needed to get over the > depressive paralysis that kept me from changing my life. I'm > definitely > depressive, and still have my black moods, some of them pretty severe, > but > I'm functional in spite of them. By the time I got off Zoloft I had > managed > to build up at least a basic sense of competency and self-esteem, and > was a > lot less likely to throw my hands up and say " what's the use? " when > faced > with changing my life. > > It's odd, though--that dependency on misery. I used to let the darkness > in my head do its thing, despite the mess it was making of my life. It > seemed so much easier to just give myself over to it than to get out of > bed > and out into the world; I was miserable, but I knew what to expect from > it--there was a certain safety in that. AA intensified the focus on > failure > and powerlessness I already held, and encouraged the obsessive > negativity > that kept me endlessly running over the hopelessness of my life. But I > was > sober! Blaaaggghhh! > > Yeah, feeling good for the first time can be scary--but I don't think > anyone > here will smugly inform you that you're merely on a " pink cloud " . You > sound > like you're on the right track, and you may be surprised at how quickly > the AA > crap starts to fall away now that you're not around it all the time. > Taking > up an activity that you always wanted to try but never thought you > could helps > a lot, and depending on what you do, it's also a good way to meet non-AA > people. Seeing your progress and watching yourself get good at > something > does wonders, too, hokey as it sounds. > > I wish you all the best-- > > Take care, > . > > > Hi all! Thanks for your responses to my multiple postings Friday > night. I > > feel a lot a better today. Looking back, I was just having a bad > night. By > > bad I mean pretty scary. I've come to realize that the prozac is > making me > > feel better. And that scares the crap out of me. For about a year > I've > > been in so much physical and mental anguish I couldn't see straight. > Now, > > I'm feeling better. And I don't know what to do with myself! > > That's the scary thing about depression or misery. I've > almost > > become dependent on my life being hell. So, in my post where I > lashed out > > at prozac and the world I was trying to go back. I wanted to go back > to > > what was familiar for me: feeling awful. Really, last night, I'd > decided I > > was going to stop prozac and return to AA, find a really mean sponsor > and > > just shut my mouth! Luckily, I realized tonight that I would be > selling > > myself short. > > Anyway, thanks for being understanding. My hard work has > just > > begun. But I really want to fight for my happiness. I know its not > gonna > > be easy keeping with my meds and therapy. But I've got to stick with > it. > > Unless I want to be miserable forever. Matt > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 1999 Report Share Posted October 18, 1999 Matt, , group etc. Having been prescribed many various psychactive pharmacological drugs in past years and experiencing the many side-effects that are present when on these drug maintenance programs, I sought out other substances that would allow me relief from my depression and anxiety. Two natural and more body friendly natural compounds that have had few to none side-effects are kava kava, valerian root or their combination. They have taken the edge off many of my self-imposed temporary situational psychological problems that I have struggled with in the past and have given me the time that I needed to gain a different perspective on an often irrational issue. Although the drugs like prozac (SSRI'S) work for many people, they do have some rather undisirable side-effects that rendered me somewhat dysfunctional or " space out " . Problem is with kava and valerian is that you have to take a handful of the damn things to benefit! Re: A Better Day > Hi, Matt-- > Glad to hear things are going a little better for you. I tried Prozac > several years ago, had a lousy time with it, and then tried Zoloft for > a while--it was very helpful, but eventually I elected to quit taking > it. I think it helped me get through a rough time of being very > depressed > and full of self-doubt; it was the boost I needed to get over the > depressive paralysis that kept me from changing my life. I'm > definitely > depressive, and still have my black moods, some of them pretty severe, > but > I'm functional in spite of them. By the time I got off Zoloft I had > managed > to build up at least a basic sense of competency and self-esteem, and > was a > lot less likely to throw my hands up and say " what's the use? " when > faced > with changing my life. > > It's odd, though--that dependency on misery. I used to let the darkness > in my head do its thing, despite the mess it was making of my life. It > seemed so much easier to just give myself over to it than to get out of > bed > and out into the world; I was miserable, but I knew what to expect from > it--there was a certain safety in that. AA intensified the focus on > failure > and powerlessness I already held, and encouraged the obsessive > negativity > that kept me endlessly running over the hopelessness of my life. But I > was > sober! Blaaaggghhh! > > Yeah, feeling good for the first time can be scary--but I don't think > anyone > here will smugly inform you that you're merely on a " pink cloud " . You > sound > like you're on the right track, and you may be surprised at how quickly > the AA > crap starts to fall away now that you're not around it all the time. > Taking > up an activity that you always wanted to try but never thought you > could helps > a lot, and depending on what you do, it's also a good way to meet non-AA > people. Seeing your progress and watching yourself get good at > something > does wonders, too, hokey as it sounds. > > I wish you all the best-- > > Take care, > . > > > Hi all! Thanks for your responses to my multiple postings Friday > night. I > > feel a lot a better today. Looking back, I was just having a bad > night. By > > bad I mean pretty scary. I've come to realize that the prozac is > making me > > feel better. And that scares the crap out of me. For about a year > I've > > been in so much physical and mental anguish I couldn't see straight. > Now, > > I'm feeling better. And I don't know what to do with myself! > > That's the scary thing about depression or misery. I've > almost > > become dependent on my life being hell. So, in my post where I > lashed out > > at prozac and the world I was trying to go back. I wanted to go back > to > > what was familiar for me: feeling awful. Really, last night, I'd > decided I > > was going to stop prozac and return to AA, find a really mean sponsor > and > > just shut my mouth! Luckily, I realized tonight that I would be > selling > > myself short. > > Anyway, thanks for being understanding. My hard work has > just > > begun. But I really want to fight for my happiness. I know its not > gonna > > be easy keeping with my meds and therapy. But I've got to stick with > it. > > Unless I want to be miserable forever. Matt > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 1999 Report Share Posted October 18, 1999 Thanks . I tried St. 's Wart for a few months before I went back on antidepressants. The SJW made me very high strung. I had a lot of trouble sleeping and calming down. I like to call it a " natural amphetamine. " It definetely gave me more energy, unfortunately I just wasn't sleeping on it. I'd have to take Tylenol PM to sleep and then SJW to get up again!! Felt like a natural junkie!! I'm trying to stick with the prozac. I think my main problem is I am so disconnected from people. My natural instinct is to isolate. Even though I feel better around other people. Its like I forget that I need to make the first move with people. I keep waiting for my family or someone to pull me out of my isolation. To invite me out. I've finally realized that most people just assume I like to be alone so they don't bother inviting me out. This is the main dilemma of my life. The main paradox that has come close to killing me in the past and we'll challenge me the rest of my days. I desperately need people to survive, like oxygen. I get very confused by myself. But I've always felt more natural being alone or isolating. It makes no sense. And no pill is going to fix that. If anything, the pills make my problems easier to see. Like an old dog whose set in his ways, I am in a routine. A routine of being alone. And it terrifies me, at age 27, to be trying to break that routine. And to become more comfortable around people than alone. I think one of the three things is going to happen to me: a) I'll do nothing and the pain of being on antidepressants and alone will make me chuck the pills. I'll actually move on this thing and try to connect to others. C) someone else will decide this for me. Meaning, my employer who fires me, my body that shuts down, my debtors who collect from me, the courts who I get entagled with, etc..Meaning I'll be forced to get better through AA or rehab. I'd rather go with B. Thanks, matt > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: <12-step-freeegroups> >Subject: Re: A Better Day >Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:44:29 -0600 > >Matt, , group etc. > >Having been prescribed many various psychactive pharmacological drugs in >past years and experiencing the many side-effects that are present when on >these drug maintenance programs, I sought out other substances that would >allow me relief from my depression and anxiety. Two natural and more body >friendly natural compounds that have had few to none side-effects are kava >kava, valerian root or their combination. They have taken the edge off >many >of my self-imposed temporary situational psychological problems that I have >struggled with in the past and have given me the time that I needed to gain >a different perspective on an often irrational issue. Although the drugs >like prozac (SSRI'S) work for many people, they do have some rather >undisirable side-effects that rendered me somewhat dysfunctional or " space >out " . Problem is with kava and valerian is that you have to take a handful >of the damn things to benefit! > > > Re: A Better Day > > > > Hi, Matt-- > > Glad to hear things are going a little better for you. I tried Prozac > > several years ago, had a lousy time with it, and then tried Zoloft for > > a while--it was very helpful, but eventually I elected to quit taking > > it. I think it helped me get through a rough time of being very > > depressed > > and full of self-doubt; it was the boost I needed to get over the > > depressive paralysis that kept me from changing my life. I'm > > definitely > > depressive, and still have my black moods, some of them pretty severe, > > but > > I'm functional in spite of them. By the time I got off Zoloft I had > > managed > > to build up at least a basic sense of competency and self-esteem, and > > was a > > lot less likely to throw my hands up and say " what's the use? " when > > faced > > with changing my life. > > > > It's odd, though--that dependency on misery. I used to let the darkness > > in my head do its thing, despite the mess it was making of my life. It > > seemed so much easier to just give myself over to it than to get out of > > bed > > and out into the world; I was miserable, but I knew what to expect from > > it--there was a certain safety in that. AA intensified the focus on > > failure > > and powerlessness I already held, and encouraged the obsessive > > negativity > > that kept me endlessly running over the hopelessness of my life. But I > > was > > sober! Blaaaggghhh! > > > > Yeah, feeling good for the first time can be scary--but I don't think > > anyone > > here will smugly inform you that you're merely on a " pink cloud " . You > > sound > > like you're on the right track, and you may be surprised at how quickly > > the AA > > crap starts to fall away now that you're not around it all the time. > > Taking > > up an activity that you always wanted to try but never thought you > > could helps > > a lot, and depending on what you do, it's also a good way to meet non-AA > > people. Seeing your progress and watching yourself get good at > > something > > does wonders, too, hokey as it sounds. > > > > I wish you all the best-- > > > > Take care, > > . > > > > > Hi all! Thanks for your responses to my multiple postings Friday > > night. I > > > feel a lot a better today. Looking back, I was just having a bad > > night. By > > > bad I mean pretty scary. I've come to realize that the prozac is > > making me > > > feel better. And that scares the crap out of me. For about a year > > I've > > > been in so much physical and mental anguish I couldn't see straight. > > Now, > > > I'm feeling better. And I don't know what to do with myself! > > > That's the scary thing about depression or misery. I've > > almost > > > become dependent on my life being hell. So, in my post where I > > lashed out > > > at prozac and the world I was trying to go back. I wanted to go back > > to > > > what was familiar for me: feeling awful. Really, last night, I'd > > decided I > > > was going to stop prozac and return to AA, find a really mean sponsor > > and > > > just shut my mouth! Luckily, I realized tonight that I would be > > selling > > > myself short. > > > Anyway, thanks for being understanding. My hard work has > > just > > > begun. But I really want to fight for my happiness. I know its not > > gonna > > > be easy keeping with my meds and therapy. But I've got to stick with > > it. > > > Unless I want to be miserable forever. Matt > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 1999 Report Share Posted October 18, 1999 Thanks . I tried St. 's Wart for a few months before I went back on antidepressants. The SJW made me very high strung. I had a lot of trouble sleeping and calming down. I like to call it a " natural amphetamine. " It definetely gave me more energy, unfortunately I just wasn't sleeping on it. I'd have to take Tylenol PM to sleep and then SJW to get up again!! Felt like a natural junkie!! I'm trying to stick with the prozac. I think my main problem is I am so disconnected from people. My natural instinct is to isolate. Even though I feel better around other people. Its like I forget that I need to make the first move with people. I keep waiting for my family or someone to pull me out of my isolation. To invite me out. I've finally realized that most people just assume I like to be alone so they don't bother inviting me out. This is the main dilemma of my life. The main paradox that has come close to killing me in the past and we'll challenge me the rest of my days. I desperately need people to survive, like oxygen. I get very confused by myself. But I've always felt more natural being alone or isolating. It makes no sense. And no pill is going to fix that. If anything, the pills make my problems easier to see. Like an old dog whose set in his ways, I am in a routine. A routine of being alone. And it terrifies me, at age 27, to be trying to break that routine. And to become more comfortable around people than alone. I think one of the three things is going to happen to me: a) I'll do nothing and the pain of being on antidepressants and alone will make me chuck the pills. I'll actually move on this thing and try to connect to others. C) someone else will decide this for me. Meaning, my employer who fires me, my body that shuts down, my debtors who collect from me, the courts who I get entagled with, etc..Meaning I'll be forced to get better through AA or rehab. I'd rather go with B. Thanks, matt > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: <12-step-freeegroups> >Subject: Re: A Better Day >Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:44:29 -0600 > >Matt, , group etc. > >Having been prescribed many various psychactive pharmacological drugs in >past years and experiencing the many side-effects that are present when on >these drug maintenance programs, I sought out other substances that would >allow me relief from my depression and anxiety. Two natural and more body >friendly natural compounds that have had few to none side-effects are kava >kava, valerian root or their combination. They have taken the edge off >many >of my self-imposed temporary situational psychological problems that I have >struggled with in the past and have given me the time that I needed to gain >a different perspective on an often irrational issue. Although the drugs >like prozac (SSRI'S) work for many people, they do have some rather >undisirable side-effects that rendered me somewhat dysfunctional or " space >out " . Problem is with kava and valerian is that you have to take a handful >of the damn things to benefit! > > > Re: A Better Day > > > > Hi, Matt-- > > Glad to hear things are going a little better for you. I tried Prozac > > several years ago, had a lousy time with it, and then tried Zoloft for > > a while--it was very helpful, but eventually I elected to quit taking > > it. I think it helped me get through a rough time of being very > > depressed > > and full of self-doubt; it was the boost I needed to get over the > > depressive paralysis that kept me from changing my life. I'm > > definitely > > depressive, and still have my black moods, some of them pretty severe, > > but > > I'm functional in spite of them. By the time I got off Zoloft I had > > managed > > to build up at least a basic sense of competency and self-esteem, and > > was a > > lot less likely to throw my hands up and say " what's the use? " when > > faced > > with changing my life. > > > > It's odd, though--that dependency on misery. I used to let the darkness > > in my head do its thing, despite the mess it was making of my life. It > > seemed so much easier to just give myself over to it than to get out of > > bed > > and out into the world; I was miserable, but I knew what to expect from > > it--there was a certain safety in that. AA intensified the focus on > > failure > > and powerlessness I already held, and encouraged the obsessive > > negativity > > that kept me endlessly running over the hopelessness of my life. But I > > was > > sober! Blaaaggghhh! > > > > Yeah, feeling good for the first time can be scary--but I don't think > > anyone > > here will smugly inform you that you're merely on a " pink cloud " . You > > sound > > like you're on the right track, and you may be surprised at how quickly > > the AA > > crap starts to fall away now that you're not around it all the time. > > Taking > > up an activity that you always wanted to try but never thought you > > could helps > > a lot, and depending on what you do, it's also a good way to meet non-AA > > people. Seeing your progress and watching yourself get good at > > something > > does wonders, too, hokey as it sounds. > > > > I wish you all the best-- > > > > Take care, > > . > > > > > Hi all! Thanks for your responses to my multiple postings Friday > > night. I > > > feel a lot a better today. Looking back, I was just having a bad > > night. By > > > bad I mean pretty scary. I've come to realize that the prozac is > > making me > > > feel better. And that scares the crap out of me. For about a year > > I've > > > been in so much physical and mental anguish I couldn't see straight. > > Now, > > > I'm feeling better. And I don't know what to do with myself! > > > That's the scary thing about depression or misery. I've > > almost > > > become dependent on my life being hell. So, in my post where I > > lashed out > > > at prozac and the world I was trying to go back. I wanted to go back > > to > > > what was familiar for me: feeling awful. Really, last night, I'd > > decided I > > > was going to stop prozac and return to AA, find a really mean sponsor > > and > > > just shut my mouth! Luckily, I realized tonight that I would be > > selling > > > myself short. > > > Anyway, thanks for being understanding. My hard work has > > just > > > begun. But I really want to fight for my happiness. I know its not > > gonna > > > be easy keeping with my meds and therapy. But I've got to stick with > > it. > > > Unless I want to be miserable forever. Matt > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 1999 Report Share Posted October 18, 1999 <snippage> Problem is with kava and valerian is that you have to take a handful > of the damn things to benefit! > > Thanks, -- I tried valerian last year (though not in conjunction with kava kava) and didn't notice any effect at all--then again I probably wasn't taking near enough. Still haven't tried hypericum--there was so much hype surrounding it a couple of years ago that I became automatically skeptical of it. I may give it a whirl come February, when the cumulative effects of a wet, gray Pacific Northwest winter exacerbate my black moods. I read Matt's acount of how it made him hyper--I'm already a java junkie, so the experiment may be short-lived--I want to feel better, not launch into orbit...! :^) Cheers, . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 1999 Report Share Posted October 18, 1999 <snippage> Problem is with kava and valerian is that you have to take a handful > of the damn things to benefit! > > Thanks, -- I tried valerian last year (though not in conjunction with kava kava) and didn't notice any effect at all--then again I probably wasn't taking near enough. Still haven't tried hypericum--there was so much hype surrounding it a couple of years ago that I became automatically skeptical of it. I may give it a whirl come February, when the cumulative effects of a wet, gray Pacific Northwest winter exacerbate my black moods. I read Matt's acount of how it made him hyper--I'm already a java junkie, so the experiment may be short-lived--I want to feel better, not launch into orbit...! :^) Cheers, . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 1999 Report Share Posted October 18, 1999 > I'm trying to stick with the prozac. I think my main problem is I am > so disconnected from people. My natural instinct is to isolate. Even > though I feel better around other people. Its like I forget that I need to > make the first move with people. I keep waiting for my family or someone to > pull me out of my isolation. To invite me out. I've finally realized that > most people just assume I like to be alone so they don't bother inviting me > out. That isolation instinct is something I can identify with really well--I spent the entire weekend at home alone, and didn't talk to anyone, didn't call anybody, just worked on a research paper and read books. I tend to use books as substitutes for people, and since most of what I read is history I can get into a rut of feeling more connected with the dead than the living. Sure, I had a great time Saturday night curled up on the couch with and 's journals, but it might have been healthier for me to go talk to people. I usually have to force myself to go out, or to call friends, even when I'm feeling just fine (which is actually the majority of the time). I do identify myself as an introvert; I need a lot of time alone. When I left AA it was a very lonely time, despite the fact that I never called people in the Program even while I was a member. AA gave me a reliable " people fix " , but once I left I had almost no social life. It's a funny thing, but when I have a reliable social network I don't have such a great need to be around people. If anything, I'm more prone to isolating now that I have a number of very close friends who share my academic interests and understand my eccentricities--I know they are there and I can go see them when I really want company and they won't hold it against me that I haven't called in six months. It sounds oddly detatched, but I'm actually very close to these people--without the dependency/superiority dynamic that pervades AA, I have room to be. But it took a couple of years to build up those friendships, and I probably wouldn't have met any of these people if I hadn't forced myself to at least get out into public places. Hanging out at the same coffee house every Saturday morning worked for me, because I'm not good at initiating contact. I checked out the regulars, they checked me out, and eventually I drifted into conversations with some of them. I was active in a local arts organization, which intro- duced me to other artists in the area. I worked in bookstores for a few years, because that was what I was interested in, and made friends with a number of my customers. And as a 32-year-old returning student (who is often the only one in any given class to show genuine interest in the subject at hand), I've made friends with some of my professors, two of whom have been valuable mentors, as well. I think developing new friendships and bringing healthy people into your life starts by asking yourself " what kind of people do I want to be around? " --you yourself brought this up in a post awhile back, as I recall, and you're right. I wanted to be around bookish people who were curious about how the world worked and got their ideas from somewhere other than the TV, so I hung out where they did, worked in a place where I was sure to meet them, and went back to school. So what kind of people do you want to be around, Matt? And more important, what kind of person do you want to be? Now that you've left the Program, you have to find something to replace the " diseased alcoholic " image that they implanted, and that can be tough--but the cool part is that you can choose what you want to become. I won't tell you any of it's easy--there's no " simple program " here--but I swear it gets better. I was 26 when I left AA after 4-1/2 years in the Program; six years later it's pretty amazing how my life has changed just by taking full responsibility for it and not giving up, no matter what. Sick with your Plan B! :>) Cheers, . > This is the main dilemma of my life. The main paradox that has come > close to killing me in the past and we'll challenge me the rest of my days. > I desperately need people to survive, like oxygen. I get very confused by > myself. But I've always felt more natural being alone or isolating. It > makes no sense. And no pill is going to fix that. If anything, the pills > make my problems easier to see. > Like an old dog whose set in his ways, I am in a routine. A routine > of being alone. And it terrifies me, at age 27, to be trying to break that > routine. And to become more comfortable around people than alone. I think > one of the three things is going to happen to me: > a) I'll do nothing and the pain of being on antidepressants and alone > will make me chuck the pills. > I'll actually move on this thing and try to connect to others. > C) someone else will decide this for me. Meaning, my employer who > fires me, my body that shuts down, my debtors who collect from me, the > courts who I get entagled with, etc..Meaning I'll be forced to get better > through AA or rehab. > I'd rather go with B. Thanks, matt > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 1999 Report Share Posted October 18, 1999 I tried Hypericum (St. s Wort) Boy did it work. I got the tincture in alcohol suspension, and not the pills. Made me euphoric. It was too weird. I was too happy, breathing deeply and drinking in the joy of living. Gave me acne on my face though which was Yucko! Apple > > > > Thanks, -- > > I tried valerian last year (though not in conjunction with > kava kava) and didn't notice any effect at all--then again > I probably wasn't taking near enough. Still haven't tried > hypericum--there was so much hype surrounding it a couple of > years ago that I became automatically skeptical of it. I may > give it a whirl come February, when the cumulative effects of > a wet, gray Pacific Northwest winter exacerbate my black moods. > I read Matt's acount of how it made him hyper--I'm already > a java junkie, so the experiment may be short-lived--I > want to feel better, not launch into orbit...! :^) > > Cheers, > . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 1999 Report Share Posted October 18, 1999 I tried Hypericum (St. s Wort) Boy did it work. I got the tincture in alcohol suspension, and not the pills. Made me euphoric. It was too weird. I was too happy, breathing deeply and drinking in the joy of living. Gave me acne on my face though which was Yucko! Apple > > > > Thanks, -- > > I tried valerian last year (though not in conjunction with > kava kava) and didn't notice any effect at all--then again > I probably wasn't taking near enough. Still haven't tried > hypericum--there was so much hype surrounding it a couple of > years ago that I became automatically skeptical of it. I may > give it a whirl come February, when the cumulative effects of > a wet, gray Pacific Northwest winter exacerbate my black moods. > I read Matt's acount of how it made him hyper--I'm already > a java junkie, so the experiment may be short-lived--I > want to feel better, not launch into orbit...! :^) > > Cheers, > . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 1999 Report Share Posted October 18, 1999 Hi Apple: After reading your post describing the reaction that you had with herb St. s Wart, I remembered a reaction that I once had with alcohol and a major trank. I woke up the next day after taking both these substances and I could not straighten my head. It wanted to move involuntarily move to the right and then left. My tongue shot out of my mouth as well. I made it to my friends house down the street and he took me to the hospital where the doctor (a rather humorous sort) said to me " , what are you doing with that pickle in your mouth " referring to my tongue. WOW, I'll never forget that one. It took a handful of xanax to bring me out of it. Re: A Better Day > I tried Hypericum (St. s Wort) Boy did it work. I got the tincture > in alcohol suspension, and not the pills. Made me euphoric. It was too > weird. I was too happy, breathing deeply and drinking in the joy of > living. Gave me acne on my face though which was Yucko! > Apple > > > > > > > > > Thanks, -- > > > > I tried valerian last year (though not in conjunction with > > kava kava) and didn't notice any effect at all--then again > > I probably wasn't taking near enough. Still haven't tried > > hypericum--there was so much hype surrounding it a couple of > > years ago that I became automatically skeptical of it. I may > > give it a whirl come February, when the cumulative effects of > > a wet, gray Pacific Northwest winter exacerbate my black moods. > > I read Matt's acount of how it made him hyper--I'm already > > a java junkie, so the experiment may be short-lived--I > > want to feel better, not launch into orbit...! :^) > > > > Cheers, > > . > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 1999 Report Share Posted October 18, 1999 appledt-@... wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8698 > I tried Hypericum (St. s Wort) Boy did it work. I got the tincture > in alcohol suspension, Whoa! Did you change your sobriety date? Raise your hand as a newcomer? <laugh, shudder> Cheers, . and not the pills. Made me euphoric. It was too > weird. I was too happy, breathing deeply and drinking in the joy of > living. Gave me acne on my face though which was Yucko! > Apple > > > > > > > > > Thanks, -- > > > > I tried valerian last year (though not in conjunction with > > kava kava) and didn't notice any effect at all--then again > > I probably wasn't taking near enough. Still haven't tried > > hypericum--there was so much hype surrounding it a couple of > > years ago that I became automatically skeptical of it. I may > > give it a whirl come February, when the cumulative effects of > > a wet, gray Pacific Northwest winter exacerbate my black moods. > > I read Matt's acount of how it made him hyper--I'm already > > a java junkie, so the experiment may be short-lived--I > > want to feel better, not launch into orbit...! :^) > > > > Cheers, > > . > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 1999 Report Share Posted October 18, 1999 appledt-@... wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8698 > I tried Hypericum (St. s Wort) Boy did it work. I got the tincture > in alcohol suspension, Whoa! Did you change your sobriety date? Raise your hand as a newcomer? <laugh, shudder> Cheers, . and not the pills. Made me euphoric. It was too > weird. I was too happy, breathing deeply and drinking in the joy of > living. Gave me acne on my face though which was Yucko! > Apple > > > > > > > > > Thanks, -- > > > > I tried valerian last year (though not in conjunction with > > kava kava) and didn't notice any effect at all--then again > > I probably wasn't taking near enough. Still haven't tried > > hypericum--there was so much hype surrounding it a couple of > > years ago that I became automatically skeptical of it. I may > > give it a whirl come February, when the cumulative effects of > > a wet, gray Pacific Northwest winter exacerbate my black moods. > > I read Matt's acount of how it made him hyper--I'm already > > a java junkie, so the experiment may be short-lived--I > > want to feel better, not launch into orbit...! :^) > > > > Cheers, > > . > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 1999 Report Share Posted October 19, 1999 Sounds like extrapyramidal effects. I once abused Haldol, which is supposed to be taken with a drug to counter the resulting extrapyramidal effects. In effect, your body and face controrts and there's nothing you can do about it. I remember having taken some Haldol, and while I was driving my face got stuck in an expression of amazement and awe. There was NOTHING I could do about it. Eyes wiiiide open. Eyebrows arched to the max. Mouth open in a McCorey Caulkin " Home Alone " expression. I have safer hobbies today than playing with Haldol. Apple > Hi Apple: > > After reading your post describing the reaction that you had with herb St. > s Wart, I remembered a reaction that I once had with alcohol and a major > trank. I woke up the next day after taking both these substances and I > could not straighten my head. It wanted to move involuntarily move to the > right and then left. My tongue shot out of my mouth as well. I made it to > my friends house down the street and he took me to the hospital where the > doctor (a rather humorous sort) said to me " , what are you doing with > that pickle in your mouth " referring to my tongue. WOW, I'll never forget > that one. It took a handful of xanax to bring me out of it. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 1999 Report Share Posted October 19, 1999 Hell no. The alcohol didn't do crap to me. I didn't have an overwhelming urge to land in an institution. I never understood those folks who would avoid mouthwash and salad dressing or fish dishes with wine in it. It never bothered me. I saw one old timer from our club get de-Timed for taking a swig of cooking wine while preparing dinner at home. The " group conscience " (lynch mob) decided he would be sending the wrong message to newcomers. The guy had 12 years or so, and the group de-frocked his old timer status right in front of everyone! Apple > > I tried Hypericum (St. s Wort) Boy did it work. I got the > tincture > > in alcohol suspension, > > Whoa! Did you change your sobriety date? Raise your hand > as a newcomer? > <laugh, shudder> > > Cheers, > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 1999 Report Share Posted October 19, 1999 Hell no. The alcohol didn't do crap to me. I didn't have an overwhelming urge to land in an institution. I never understood those folks who would avoid mouthwash and salad dressing or fish dishes with wine in it. It never bothered me. I saw one old timer from our club get de-Timed for taking a swig of cooking wine while preparing dinner at home. The " group conscience " (lynch mob) decided he would be sending the wrong message to newcomers. The guy had 12 years or so, and the group de-frocked his old timer status right in front of everyone! Apple > > I tried Hypericum (St. s Wort) Boy did it work. I got the > tincture > > in alcohol suspension, > > Whoa! Did you change your sobriety date? Raise your hand > as a newcomer? > <laugh, shudder> > > Cheers, > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 1999 Report Share Posted October 19, 1999 Apple: Haldol was the drug and you describe the reaction (extrapyramidal) effects well. I have been told that some people react this way and NEVER come out of it. Can you imagine going through life with the Caulkin " Home Alone " look on your face! I have seen such people. These are indeed dangerous drugs (to some people) Re: A Better Day > Sounds like extrapyramidal effects. I once abused Haldol, which is > supposed to be taken with a drug to counter the resulting > extrapyramidal effects. In effect, your body and face controrts and > there's nothing you can do about it. I remember having taken some > Haldol, and while I was driving my face got stuck in an expression of > amazement and awe. There was NOTHING I could do about it. Eyes wiiiide > open. Eyebrows arched to the max. Mouth open in a McCorey Caulkin > " Home Alone " expression. I have safer hobbies today than playing with > Haldol. > Apple > > > Hi Apple: > > > > After reading your post describing the reaction that you had with > herb St. > > s Wart, I remembered a reaction that I once had with alcohol and > a major > > trank. I woke up the next day after taking both these substances and > I > > could not straighten my head. It wanted to move involuntarily move > to the > > right and then left. My tongue shot out of my mouth as well. I made > it to > > my friends house down the street and he took me to the hospital where > the > > doctor (a rather humorous sort) said to me " , what are you doing > with > > that pickle in your mouth " referring to my tongue. WOW, I'll never > forget > > that one. It took a handful of xanax to bring me out of it. > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 1999 Report Share Posted October 19, 1999 Apple: Haldol was the drug and you describe the reaction (extrapyramidal) effects well. I have been told that some people react this way and NEVER come out of it. Can you imagine going through life with the Caulkin " Home Alone " look on your face! I have seen such people. These are indeed dangerous drugs (to some people) Re: A Better Day > Sounds like extrapyramidal effects. I once abused Haldol, which is > supposed to be taken with a drug to counter the resulting > extrapyramidal effects. In effect, your body and face controrts and > there's nothing you can do about it. I remember having taken some > Haldol, and while I was driving my face got stuck in an expression of > amazement and awe. There was NOTHING I could do about it. Eyes wiiiide > open. Eyebrows arched to the max. Mouth open in a McCorey Caulkin > " Home Alone " expression. I have safer hobbies today than playing with > Haldol. > Apple > > > Hi Apple: > > > > After reading your post describing the reaction that you had with > herb St. > > s Wart, I remembered a reaction that I once had with alcohol and > a major > > trank. I woke up the next day after taking both these substances and > I > > could not straighten my head. It wanted to move involuntarily move > to the > > right and then left. My tongue shot out of my mouth as well. I made > it to > > my friends house down the street and he took me to the hospital where > the > > doctor (a rather humorous sort) said to me " , what are you doing > with > > that pickle in your mouth " referring to my tongue. WOW, I'll never > forget > > that one. It took a handful of xanax to bring me out of it. > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 1999 Report Share Posted October 19, 1999 Apple: Haldol was the drug and you describe the reaction (extrapyramidal) effects well. I have been told that some people react this way and NEVER come out of it. Can you imagine going through life with the Caulkin " Home Alone " look on your face! I have seen such people. These are indeed dangerous drugs (to some people) Re: A Better Day > Sounds like extrapyramidal effects. I once abused Haldol, which is > supposed to be taken with a drug to counter the resulting > extrapyramidal effects. In effect, your body and face controrts and > there's nothing you can do about it. I remember having taken some > Haldol, and while I was driving my face got stuck in an expression of > amazement and awe. There was NOTHING I could do about it. Eyes wiiiide > open. Eyebrows arched to the max. Mouth open in a McCorey Caulkin > " Home Alone " expression. I have safer hobbies today than playing with > Haldol. > Apple > > > Hi Apple: > > > > After reading your post describing the reaction that you had with > herb St. > > s Wart, I remembered a reaction that I once had with alcohol and > a major > > trank. I woke up the next day after taking both these substances and > I > > could not straighten my head. It wanted to move involuntarily move > to the > > right and then left. My tongue shot out of my mouth as well. I made > it to > > my friends house down the street and he took me to the hospital where > the > > doctor (a rather humorous sort) said to me " , what are you doing > with > > that pickle in your mouth " referring to my tongue. WOW, I'll never > forget > > that one. It took a handful of xanax to bring me out of it. > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 1999 Report Share Posted October 19, 1999 I lived with a 17-year old-timer for a few months when I was coming up on a year sober. The guy was a real purist--no booze, no drugs, no caffeine, no sugar (though honey didn't seem to count). He wouldn't use real vanilla extract when cooking because it contained alcohol, and he predicted my doom for eating a Grand Marnier truffle--but he used Listerine twice a day during his obsessive dental-hygeine rituals. Go figure. Cheers, . > Hell no. The alcohol didn't do crap to me. I didn't have an > overwhelming urge to land in an institution. I never understood those > folks who would avoid mouthwash and salad dressing or fish dishes with > wine in it. It never bothered me. I saw one old timer from our club > get de-Timed for taking a swig of cooking wine while preparing dinner > at home. The " group conscience " (lynch mob) decided he would be > sending the wrong message to newcomers. The guy had 12 years or so, > and the group de-frocked his old timer status right in front of > everyone! > Apple > > > I tried Hypericum (St. s Wort) Boy did it work. I got the > > tincture > > > in alcohol suspension, > > > > Whoa! Did you change your sobriety date? Raise your hand > > as a newcomer? > > <laugh, shudder> > > > > Cheers, > > . > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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