Re: it's a selective disease

[Guest guest]

My " disease " supposedly kicks in if I get Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired,

Anxious, Argumemtative, impatient ,bored, depressed, want something done " My

Way " , indulge in wishful thinking, or start to think that things are

" OK " . It's also dangerous for me to want to be by myself, go to a place that

sells liquor,see ads for liquor or a hundred other things that " Normies "

can do but I can't.

In a message dated 10/2/99 7:57:52 PM Central Daylight Time,

vomiticus@... writes:

> I guess my " disease " was one of not being able to think for myself.

> I needed a group of sickos who liked to control and manipulate...they

> provided the antidote for my disease.

> Just think about it. A disease arrested by a group who have the same

> disease.

> What power!!!

> Probably I also have a little bit of the disease of masochism. For 5

> years I seemed to have needed to be told the following:

> 1. I was powerless

> 2. I needed to shutup and listen

> 3. I didn't deserve to be angry

> 4. I shouldn't think for myself

> 5. Feelings meant danger

>

> And remember: I must be doomed for life because I cannot possibly

> recover. This is chronic and nasty.

> All this actually contributed to a REAL disease I have called

> depression. Ever noticed all the depressed people in AA? I know AA

> behavior does not cause depression, but in my case, it certainly added

> to it.

>

[Guest guest]

lets see hmmm.. my favorite disease is one in which their is absolutley

no medical test which can be used to determine you have it.. a disease

in which you suffer from when you cease to be denial of its

existence... a disease which its advocates proclaim must genetic , yet

its symptoms are symbolic bottles and its roots are defects of

charatcer, ego and willfulness. finally a dsiease that if you were

denounce the above attributes would be a sure sign that you had it.

wow, thats teh disease for me!

kim rh wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8411

>

> Hmn- funny how my so called disease usually " made "

> me drink Coors Light beer and not another brand.

> Although at times I also had bouts of Molson Export

> disease. You would think though that if a person had

> an " uncontrollable " " disease " , that this " disease "

> would force them to drink booze they didn't like, or

> do drugs they didn't want to do. Funny how that

> doesn't happen, hmm!

>

> So some people have coke disease ( this disease

> actually has several strains- freebase disease, line

> disease, intravenous disease,etc),hash disease(not to

> be confused with hash OIL disease- a different disease

> altogether).

> Similarly, a potential OA member may " suffer " (? Is

> it suffering if you partly enjoy it, and you bring it

> on yourself?!) from chocolate donut disease (there are

> a large number of donut related diseases. Many strains

> of the virus- or " flavours " as sufferers call them).

>

> What's your favorite disease?!!(Rhetorical question).

>

> Kim.

>

> =====

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

lets see hmmm.. my favorite disease is one in which their is absolutley

no medical test which can be used to determine you have it.. a disease

in which you suffer from when you cease to be denial of its

existence... a disease which its advocates proclaim must genetic , yet

its symptoms are symbolic bottles and its roots are defects of

charatcer, ego and willfulness. finally a dsiease that if you were

denounce the above attributes would be a sure sign that you had it.

wow, thats teh disease for me!

kim rh wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8411

>

> Hmn- funny how my so called disease usually " made "

> me drink Coors Light beer and not another brand.

> Although at times I also had bouts of Molson Export

> disease. You would think though that if a person had

> an " uncontrollable " " disease " , that this " disease "

> would force them to drink booze they didn't like, or

> do drugs they didn't want to do. Funny how that

> doesn't happen, hmm!

>

> So some people have coke disease ( this disease

> actually has several strains- freebase disease, line

> disease, intravenous disease,etc),hash disease(not to

> be confused with hash OIL disease- a different disease

> altogether).

> Similarly, a potential OA member may " suffer " (? Is

> it suffering if you partly enjoy it, and you bring it

> on yourself?!) from chocolate donut disease (there are

> a large number of donut related diseases. Many strains

> of the virus- or " flavours " as sufferers call them).

>

> What's your favorite disease?!!(Rhetorical question).

>

> Kim.

>

> =====

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/2/99 1:34:50 PM Central Daylight Time,

kimrh67@... writes:

> What's your favorite disease?!!(Rhetorical question).

>

> Kim.

Rhetorical? I'll answer anyway.

I prefer Merlot Disease, though I occasionally lean toward Pizza Disease.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/2/99 1:34:50 PM Central Daylight Time,

kimrh67@... writes:

> What's your favorite disease?!!(Rhetorical question).

>

> Kim.

Rhetorical? I'll answer anyway.

I prefer Merlot Disease, though I occasionally lean toward Pizza Disease.

[Guest guest]

I guess my " disease " was one of not being able to think for myself.

I needed a group of sickos who liked to control and manipulate...they

provided the antidote for my disease.

Just think about it. A disease arrested by a group who have the same

disease.

What power!!!

Probably I also have a little bit of the disease of masochism. For 5

years I seemed to have needed to be told the following:

1. I was powerless

2. I needed to shutup and listen

3. I didn't deserve to be angry

4. I shouldn't think for myself

5. Feelings meant danger

And remember: I must be doomed for life because I cannot possibly

recover. This is chronic and nasty.

All this actually contributed to a REAL disease I have called

depression. Ever noticed all the depressed people in AA? I know AA

behavior does not cause depression, but in my case, it certainly added

to it.

kim rh wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8411

>

> Hmn- funny how my so called disease usually " made "

> me drink Coors Light beer and not another brand.

> Although at times I also had bouts of Molson Export

> disease. You would think though that if a person had

> an " uncontrollable " " disease " , that this " disease "

> would force them to drink booze they didn't like, or

> do drugs they didn't want to do. Funny how that

> doesn't happen, hmm!

>

> So some people have coke disease ( this disease

> actually has several strains- freebase disease, line

> disease, intravenous disease,etc),hash disease(not to

> be confused with hash OIL disease- a different disease

> altogether).

> Similarly, a potential OA member may " suffer " (? Is

> it suffering if you partly enjoy it, and you bring it

> on yourself?!) from chocolate donut disease (there are

> a large number of donut related diseases. Many strains

> of the virus- or " flavours " as sufferers call them).

>

> What's your favorite disease?!!(Rhetorical question).

>

> Kim.

>

> =====

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

> Hmn- funny how my so called disease usually " made "

> me drink Coors Light beer and not another brand.

> Although at times I also had bouts of Molson Export

> disease. You would think though that if a person had

> an " uncontrollable " " disease " , that this " disease "

> would force them to drink booze they didn't like, or

> do drugs they didn't want to do. Funny how that

> doesn't happen, hmm!

Yeah, tell me about it! My progressive, uncontrollable

disease allowed me to drink Irish Whiskey and Scotch, but gin

was simply too vile--I left a gathering at a friend's house

once because all he had left after I drank the last glass of

decent Cabernet was a choice between gin or pink wine from a

box <shudder>

<snipped>

> What's your favorite disease?!!(Rhetorical question).

>

> Kim.

Biblioholism, no doubt about it.

My mother's car broke down one Sunday afternoon and

she needed a ride; when she couldn't reach me at home

she called all of the bookstores in town until she

found out which one I was at. It wasn't the fact that

her hunch turned out to be right that struck her as odd;

it was that every person she talked to knew exactly who

I was and which bookstore I was headed to next.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/3/99 2:41:24 AM Central Daylight Time,

babystrange@... writes:

<< Biblioholism, no doubt about it. >>

Bibliophilism?

" Huggy Bear " hangin' at the bookstore. Hmmmm.

I recently found a book with a 1 " hole drilled in the back cover. Maybe it

was once used by a " sneaky " informant...

M. Yriondo

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/3/99 2:41:24 AM Central Daylight Time,

babystrange@... writes:

<< Biblioholism, no doubt about it. >>

Bibliophilism?

" Huggy Bear " hangin' at the bookstore. Hmmmm.

I recently found a book with a 1 " hole drilled in the back cover. Maybe it

was once used by a " sneaky " informant...

M. Yriondo

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/3/99 2:37:11 PM Central Daylight Time,

jkling@... writes:

> He said the " disease " of alcoholism was not a moral or

> matter of weak character but a medical problem like other diseases which we

> have no control. Though this man presented a good verbal case, like so

many

> in AA, I hold firm that addiction is a behavioral problem and a behavior

we

> can change.

The medical community also knows that it is behavioral. The term

" Behavioral Health Center " is common today. Calling it a disease lets them

bill insurance companies for far more many days than the 3-5 days of detox.

[Guest guest]

kim rh wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8411

> What's your favorite disease?!!(Rhetorical question).

It's not rhetorical at all. It begs to be answered, and goes to the

very heart of the " disease " theory which is underlying the whole

premise of XA and subsequently 12sf.

I had a video poker disease. But I didn't have a sports betting disease

or a slot disease, or a craps or blackjack disease. If I had a

gambling disease, anyone of the games should have been good enough.

[Guest guest]

kim rh wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8411

> What's your favorite disease?!!(Rhetorical question).

It's not rhetorical at all. It begs to be answered, and goes to the

very heart of the " disease " theory which is underlying the whole

premise of XA and subsequently 12sf.

I had a video poker disease. But I didn't have a sports betting disease

or a slot disease, or a craps or blackjack disease. If I had a

gambling disease, anyone of the games should have been good enough.

[Guest guest]

PS: This also goes to the question of the hierarchy mentioned by

someone a few days ago at NA about the ex-cons who shot heroin at the

top and the lowly pot smokers at the bottom, and the coke/meth people

struggling for better recognition.

At GA, It was the sports betters, and table game losers at the top and

the slot video poker losers at the bottom.

[Guest guest]

PS: This also goes to the question of the hierarchy mentioned by

someone a few days ago at NA about the ex-cons who shot heroin at the

top and the lowly pot smokers at the bottom, and the coke/meth people

struggling for better recognition.

At GA, It was the sports betters, and table game losers at the top and

the slot video poker losers at the bottom.

[Guest guest]

At 10:21 AM 03/10/99 -0700, you wrote:

>PS: This also goes to the question of the hierarchy mentioned by

>someone a few days ago at NA about the ex-cons who shot heroin at the

>top and the lowly pot smokers at the bottom, and the coke/meth people

>struggling for better recognition.

>

>At GA, It was the sports betters, and table game losers at the top and

>the slot video poker losers at the bottom.

Re NA, I always thought that the ex-cons and heroin addictswho stressed the

credentials a lot only THOUGHT they were at the top. Bragging about how bad

an addict you were and then almost in the same breath saying how glad you

are for all the god-given humility and especially stressing how " it doesn't

matter what or how much you used " - it just doesn't fit together. The

braggers were embarrassing to many. It is like saying- " look how BAD a road

accident victim I am. Look how long I behaved stupidly, and how really

seriously stupid I was. Look how much I walked in the road in front of

moving traffic. This makes me someone to be reckoned with. " It is nonsense.

I think the reaosn is to get some feeling of being a worthwhile person and

cashing in on one's addiction career and trying to use that to be " better "

is the nearest some people get to that.

[Guest guest]

I once viewed a video per the request of a psychologist regarding the

disease concept of addiction. This MD went on and on from the first

declaration that addiction was a disease in 19xx to the present and

" undisputed " medical position that addiction is indeed a disease. The MD

cited medical etiology that supposedly validates this concept by telling

about and showing examples of addiction disease to other diseases like

cancer and diabetes. He said the " disease " of alcoholism was not a moral or

matter of weak character but a medical problem like other diseases which we

have no control. Though this man presented a good verbal case, like so many

in AA, I hold firm that addiction is a behavioral problem and a behavior we

can change. In meetings I have told men to " grab themselves up by their

balls " and start changing their behavior but they tell me they have no

control because they have a disease. Someone told me a couple of years ago,

" if long hair was a disease, would a hair cut be the cure? I think about

that sometimes. I also believe its a conspiracy among many mental health

workers when they tell their clients they are powerless of a fictious

disease. For sure, steppism is a corruption between psychology and religion

for a personal economical advantage. I have " selected " myself and have

committed myself to our human capacity to change. I choose not to

erroneously declare myself " diseased " because of a behavior that can be

changed. It is wrong to erode someones self-esteem with labeling through

coercion.

Re: it's a selective disease

> In a message dated 10/3/99 2:41:24 AM Central Daylight Time,

> babystrange@... writes:

>

> << Biblioholism, no doubt about it. >>

>

> Bibliophilism?

>

> " Huggy Bear " hangin' at the bookstore. Hmmmm.

>

> I recently found a book with a 1 " hole drilled in the back cover. Maybe

it

> was once used by a " sneaky " informant...

>

> M. Yriondo

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online.

> Start with up to 150 Points for joining!

> http://clickhere./click/805

>

>

> eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

kim rh wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8411

>

> Hmn- funny how my so called disease usually " made "

> me drink Coors Light beer and not another brand.

> Although at times I also had bouts of Molson Export

> disease. You would think though that if a person had

> an " uncontrollable " " disease " , that this " disease "

> would force them to drink booze they didn't like, or

> do drugs they didn't want to do. Funny how that

> doesn't happen, hmm!

>

> So some people have coke disease ( this disease

> actually has several strains- freebase disease, line

> disease, intravenous disease,etc),hash disease(not to

> be confused with hash OIL disease- a different disease

> altogether).

> Similarly, a potential OA member may " suffer " (? Is

> it suffering if you partly enjoy it, and you bring it

> on yourself?!) from chocolate donut disease (there are

> a large number of donut related diseases. Many strains

> of the virus- or " flavours " as sufferers call them).

>

> What's your favorite disease?!!(Rhetorical question).

>

> Kim.

>

> =====

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Interestingly, At the IOP (intensive outpatient program) which was 1/2

12step and 1/2 pop psychology, we were taught that the table game and

sportsbetting players took on average 15-20 years to seek help, and the

video poker players managed to get dragged to their bottom in an

average of 3 years.

Having never been a drinker, my inquiring mind wants to know, is there

a substance hierarchy at AA such as beer drinkers at the bottom and

Scotch Drinkers at the top?

I can imagine the following scenarios:

1)At an actual meeting---Time of abstinance rules

2)Aftermeeting coffee, everyone with some abstinance---lowest bottom

rules:

3)All other things being equal---Scotch rules!

Tell me if I'm wrong.

> >

> >At GA, It was the sports betters, and table game losers at the top

and

> >the slot video poker losers at the bottom.

>

> Re NA, I always thought that the ex-cons and heroin addictswho

stressed the

> credentials a lot only THOUGHT they were at the top. Bragging about

how bad

> an addict you were and then almost in the same breath saying how glad

you

> are for all the god-given humility and especially stressing how " it

doesn't

> matter what or how much you used " - it just doesn't fit together. The

> braggers were embarrassing to many. It is like saying- " look how BAD

a road

> accident victim I am. Look how long I behaved stupidly, and how really

> seriously stupid I was. Look how much I walked in the road in front of

> moving traffic. This makes me someone to be reckoned with. " It is

nonsense.

>

> I think the reaosn is to get some feeling of being a worthwhile

person and

> cashing in on one's addiction career and trying to use that to be

" better "

> is the nearest some people get to that.

>

[Guest guest]

Interestingly, At the IOP (intensive outpatient program) which was 1/2

12step and 1/2 pop psychology, we were taught that the table game and

sportsbetting players took on average 15-20 years to seek help, and the

video poker players managed to get dragged to their bottom in an

average of 3 years.

Having never been a drinker, my inquiring mind wants to know, is there

a substance hierarchy at AA such as beer drinkers at the bottom and

Scotch Drinkers at the top?

I can imagine the following scenarios:

1)At an actual meeting---Time of abstinance rules

2)Aftermeeting coffee, everyone with some abstinance---lowest bottom

rules:

3)All other things being equal---Scotch rules!

Tell me if I'm wrong.

> >

> >At GA, It was the sports betters, and table game losers at the top

and

> >the slot video poker losers at the bottom.

>

> Re NA, I always thought that the ex-cons and heroin addictswho

stressed the

> credentials a lot only THOUGHT they were at the top. Bragging about

how bad

> an addict you were and then almost in the same breath saying how glad

you

> are for all the god-given humility and especially stressing how " it

doesn't

> matter what or how much you used " - it just doesn't fit together. The

> braggers were embarrassing to many. It is like saying- " look how BAD

a road

> accident victim I am. Look how long I behaved stupidly, and how really

> seriously stupid I was. Look how much I walked in the road in front of

> moving traffic. This makes me someone to be reckoned with. " It is

nonsense.

>

> I think the reaosn is to get some feeling of being a worthwhile

person and

> cashing in on one's addiction career and trying to use that to be

" better "

> is the nearest some people get to that.

>

[Guest guest]

Interestingly, At the IOP (intensive outpatient program) which was 1/2

12step and 1/2 pop psychology, we were taught that the table game and

sportsbetting players took on average 15-20 years to seek help, and the

video poker players managed to get dragged to their bottom in an

average of 3 years.

Having never been a drinker, my inquiring mind wants to know, is there

a substance hierarchy at AA such as beer drinkers at the bottom and

Scotch Drinkers at the top?

I can imagine the following scenarios:

1)At an actual meeting---Time of abstinance rules

2)Aftermeeting coffee, everyone with some abstinance---lowest bottom

rules:

3)All other things being equal---Scotch rules!

Tell me if I'm wrong.

> >

> >At GA, It was the sports betters, and table game losers at the top

and

> >the slot video poker losers at the bottom.

>

> Re NA, I always thought that the ex-cons and heroin addictswho

stressed the

> credentials a lot only THOUGHT they were at the top. Bragging about

how bad

> an addict you were and then almost in the same breath saying how glad

you

> are for all the god-given humility and especially stressing how " it

doesn't

> matter what or how much you used " - it just doesn't fit together. The

> braggers were embarrassing to many. It is like saying- " look how BAD

a road

> accident victim I am. Look how long I behaved stupidly, and how really

> seriously stupid I was. Look how much I walked in the road in front of

> moving traffic. This makes me someone to be reckoned with. " It is

nonsense.

>

> I think the reaosn is to get some feeling of being a worthwhile

person and

> cashing in on one's addiction career and trying to use that to be

" better "

> is the nearest some people get to that.

>

[Guest guest]

from my experince at aa, you hit nail on head. those with worst war

stories (and for some reason they are the most pig headed abusive ones

i knew) seemed to dominate (aka: bully) post meeting life.

jackandj-@... wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8435

> Interestingly, At the IOP (intensive outpatient program) which was 1/2

> 12step and 1/2 pop psychology, we were taught that the table game and

> sportsbetting players took on average 15-20 years to seek help, and

the

> video poker players managed to get dragged to their bottom in an

> average of 3 years.

>

> Having never been a drinker, my inquiring mind wants to know, is there

> a substance hierarchy at AA such as beer drinkers at the bottom and

> Scotch Drinkers at the top?

>

> I can imagine the following scenarios:

> 1)At an actual meeting---Time of abstinance rules

> 2)Aftermeeting coffee, everyone with some abstinance---lowest bottom

> rules:

> 3)All other things being equal---Scotch rules!

>

> Tell me if I'm wrong.

>

>

> > >

> > >At GA, It was the sports betters, and table game losers at the top

> and

> > >the slot video poker losers at the bottom.

> >

> > Re NA, I always thought that the ex-cons and heroin addictswho

> stressed the

> > credentials a lot only THOUGHT they were at the top. Bragging about

> how bad

> > an addict you were and then almost in the same breath saying how

glad

> you

> > are for all the god-given humility and especially stressing how " it

> doesn't

> > matter what or how much you used " - it just doesn't fit together. The

> > braggers were embarrassing to many. It is like saying- " look how BAD

> a road

> > accident victim I am. Look how long I behaved stupidly, and how

really

> > seriously stupid I was. Look how much I walked in the road in front

of

> > moving traffic. This makes me someone to be reckoned with. " It is

> nonsense.

> >

> > I think the reaosn is to get some feeling of being a worthwhile

> person and

> > cashing in on one's addiction career and trying to use that to be

> " better "

> > is the nearest some people get to that.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

from my experince at aa, you hit nail on head. those with worst war

stories (and for some reason they are the most pig headed abusive ones

i knew) seemed to dominate (aka: bully) post meeting life.

jackandj-@... wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8435

> Interestingly, At the IOP (intensive outpatient program) which was 1/2

> 12step and 1/2 pop psychology, we were taught that the table game and

> sportsbetting players took on average 15-20 years to seek help, and

the

> video poker players managed to get dragged to their bottom in an

> average of 3 years.

>

> Having never been a drinker, my inquiring mind wants to know, is there

> a substance hierarchy at AA such as beer drinkers at the bottom and

> Scotch Drinkers at the top?

>

> I can imagine the following scenarios:

> 1)At an actual meeting---Time of abstinance rules

> 2)Aftermeeting coffee, everyone with some abstinance---lowest bottom

> rules:

> 3)All other things being equal---Scotch rules!

>

> Tell me if I'm wrong.

>

>

> > >

> > >At GA, It was the sports betters, and table game losers at the top

> and

> > >the slot video poker losers at the bottom.

> >

> > Re NA, I always thought that the ex-cons and heroin addictswho

> stressed the

> > credentials a lot only THOUGHT they were at the top. Bragging about

> how bad

> > an addict you were and then almost in the same breath saying how

glad

> you

> > are for all the god-given humility and especially stressing how " it

> doesn't

> > matter what or how much you used " - it just doesn't fit together. The

> > braggers were embarrassing to many. It is like saying- " look how BAD

> a road

> > accident victim I am. Look how long I behaved stupidly, and how

really

> > seriously stupid I was. Look how much I walked in the road in front

of

> > moving traffic. This makes me someone to be reckoned with. " It is

> nonsense.

> >

> > I think the reaosn is to get some feeling of being a worthwhile

> person and

> > cashing in on one's addiction career and trying to use that to be

> " better "

> > is the nearest some people get to that.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

from my experince at aa, you hit nail on head. those with worst war

stories (and for some reason they are the most pig headed abusive ones

i knew) seemed to dominate (aka: bully) post meeting life.

jackandj-@... wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8435

> Interestingly, At the IOP (intensive outpatient program) which was 1/2

> 12step and 1/2 pop psychology, we were taught that the table game and

> sportsbetting players took on average 15-20 years to seek help, and

the

> video poker players managed to get dragged to their bottom in an

> average of 3 years.

>

> Having never been a drinker, my inquiring mind wants to know, is there

> a substance hierarchy at AA such as beer drinkers at the bottom and

> Scotch Drinkers at the top?

>

> I can imagine the following scenarios:

> 1)At an actual meeting---Time of abstinance rules

> 2)Aftermeeting coffee, everyone with some abstinance---lowest bottom

> rules:

> 3)All other things being equal---Scotch rules!

>

> Tell me if I'm wrong.

>

>

> > >

> > >At GA, It was the sports betters, and table game losers at the top

> and

> > >the slot video poker losers at the bottom.

> >

> > Re NA, I always thought that the ex-cons and heroin addictswho

> stressed the

> > credentials a lot only THOUGHT they were at the top. Bragging about

> how bad

> > an addict you were and then almost in the same breath saying how

glad

> you

> > are for all the god-given humility and especially stressing how " it

> doesn't

> > matter what or how much you used " - it just doesn't fit together. The

> > braggers were embarrassing to many. It is like saying- " look how BAD

> a road

> > accident victim I am. Look how long I behaved stupidly, and how

really

> > seriously stupid I was. Look how much I walked in the road in front

of

> > moving traffic. This makes me someone to be reckoned with. " It is

> nonsense.

> >

> > I think the reaosn is to get some feeling of being a worthwhile

> person and

> > cashing in on one's addiction career and trying to use that to be

> " better "

> > is the nearest some people get to that.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

--- dmarcoot@... wrote:

> from my experince at aa, you hit nail on head. those

> with worst war

> stories (and for some reason they are the most pig

> headed abusive ones

> i knew) seemed to dominate (aka: bully) post meeting

> life.

>

> jackandj-@... wrote:

> original

>

article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8435

> > Interestingly, At the IOP (intensive outpatient

> program) which was 1/2

> > 12step and 1/2 pop psychology, we were taught that

> the table game and

> > sportsbetting players took on average 15-20 years

> to seek help, and

> the

> > video poker players managed to get dragged to

> their bottom in an

> > average of 3 years.

> >

> > Having never been a drinker, my inquiring mind

> wants to know, is there

> > a substance hierarchy at AA such as beer drinkers

> at the bottom and

> > Scotch Drinkers at the top?

> >

> > I can imagine the following scenarios:

> > 1)At an actual meeting---Time of abstinance rules

> > 2)Aftermeeting coffee, everyone with some

> abstinance---lowest bottom

> > rules:

> > 3)All other things being equal---Scotch rules!

> >

> > Tell me if I'm wrong.

> >

> >

> > > >

> > > >At GA, It was the sports betters, and table

> game losers at the top

> > and

> > > >the slot video poker losers at the bottom.

> > >

> > > Re NA, I always thought that the ex-cons and

> heroin addictswho

> > stressed the

> > > credentials a lot only THOUGHT they were at the

> top. Bragging about

> > how bad

> > > an addict you were and then almost in the same

> breath saying how

> glad

> > you

> > > are for all the god-given humility and

> especially stressing how " it

> > doesn't

> > > matter what or how much you used " - it just

> doesn't fit together. The

> > > braggers were embarrassing to many. It is like

> saying- " look how BAD

> > a road

> > > accident victim I am. Look how long I behaved

> stupidly, and how

> really

> > > seriously stupid I was. Look how much I walked

> in the road in front

> of

> > > moving traffic. This makes me someone to be

> reckoned with. " It is

> > nonsense.

> > >

> > > I think the reaosn is to get some feeling of

> being a worthwhile

> > person and

> > > cashing in on one's addiction career and trying

> to use that to be

> > " better "

> > > is the nearest some people get to that.

> > >

> >

>

>

>

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>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

--- dmarcoot@... wrote:

> from my experince at aa, you hit nail on head. those

> with worst war

> stories (and for some reason they are the most pig

> headed abusive ones

> i knew) seemed to dominate (aka: bully) post meeting

> life.

>

> jackandj-@... wrote:

> original

>

article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8435

> > Interestingly, At the IOP (intensive outpatient

> program) which was 1/2

> > 12step and 1/2 pop psychology, we were taught that

> the table game and

> > sportsbetting players took on average 15-20 years

> to seek help, and

> the

> > video poker players managed to get dragged to

> their bottom in an

> > average of 3 years.

> >

> > Having never been a drinker, my inquiring mind

> wants to know, is there

> > a substance hierarchy at AA such as beer drinkers

> at the bottom and

> > Scotch Drinkers at the top?

> >

> > I can imagine the following scenarios:

> > 1)At an actual meeting---Time of abstinance rules

> > 2)Aftermeeting coffee, everyone with some

> abstinance---lowest bottom

> > rules:

> > 3)All other things being equal---Scotch rules!

> >

> > Tell me if I'm wrong.

> >

> >

> > > >

> > > >At GA, It was the sports betters, and table

> game losers at the top

> > and

> > > >the slot video poker losers at the bottom.

> > >

> > > Re NA, I always thought that the ex-cons and

> heroin addictswho

> > stressed the

> > > credentials a lot only THOUGHT they were at the

> top. Bragging about

> > how bad

> > > an addict you were and then almost in the same

> breath saying how

> glad

> > you

> > > are for all the god-given humility and

> especially stressing how " it

> > doesn't

> > > matter what or how much you used " - it just

> doesn't fit together. The

> > > braggers were embarrassing to many. It is like

> saying- " look how BAD

> > a road

> > > accident victim I am. Look how long I behaved

> stupidly, and how

> really

> > > seriously stupid I was. Look how much I walked

> in the road in front

> of

> > > moving traffic. This makes me someone to be

> reckoned with. " It is

> > nonsense.

> > >

> > > I think the reaosn is to get some feeling of

> being a worthwhile

> > person and

> > > cashing in on one's addiction career and trying

> to use that to be

> > " better "

> > > is the nearest some people get to that.

> > >

> >

>

>

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> eGroups.com home:

> /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group

> communications

>

>

>

>

>

=====

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