Guest guest Posted September 16, 1999 Report Share Posted September 16, 1999 > Full text available at: > http://www.mentalhealth.com/fr20.html Interesting website. I liked the American and European descriptions of conditions. > Tonight's plan? I'm meeting Rebekah and L. from this list for dinner. Should be groovy cool! > See ya! > Apple > from Portland OR hey have a grand old time greetings to Rebekah and Judith ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 1999 Report Share Posted September 16, 1999 > Full text available at: > http://www.mentalhealth.com/fr20.html Interesting website. I liked the American and European descriptions of conditions. > Tonight's plan? I'm meeting Rebekah and L. from this list for dinner. Should be groovy cool! > See ya! > Apple > from Portland OR hey have a grand old time greetings to Rebekah and Judith ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 1999 Report Share Posted September 16, 1999 appledtp@... writes: > Full text available at: > http://www.mentalhealth.com/fr20.html Which article from all those available on the site is the article from? Do you recall? Have fun at dinner! Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 1999 Report Share Posted September 16, 1999 appledtp@... writes: > Full text available at: > http://www.mentalhealth.com/fr20.html Which article from all those available on the site is the article from? Do you recall? Have fun at dinner! Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 1999 Report Share Posted September 16, 1999 Hey Apple! Portland is kewl.....and do you know you are two blocks from my house? and I both live in those lovely Park Blocks you are so close to. I live right across the street from Shemanski Park and the " " statue. Pretty neat to live right above Coffee People! See you tonight. Rebekah At 14:13 9/16/99 -0700, you wrote: >I love America! Here I sit in the County Public Library in Portland >Oregon, checking the 12-step-free list, and also my deprogramming >e-mail. Ahhhh.... I love technology. > >In response to the dialogue on the effectiveness of AA, please check >out the following link: Here's an excerpt: > >But there were differences in the relapse rate. Although the average >daily number of drinks and the number of drinking days a month declined >equally (and substantially) in all groups, more than 37 percent of the >men who were originally hospitalized remained abstinent for the entire >two years, as compared with 17 percent and 16 percent in the other two >groups; only >23 percent required additional hospitalization, as compared with 63 >percent of the AA group and 38 percent of the men who chose their own >treatment. Men in the AA group who also abused other drugs (mainly >cocaine) did especially poorly. > >Full text available at: >http://www.mentalhealth.com/fr20.html > >Tonight's plan? I'm meeting Rebekah and L. from this list for >dinner. Should be groovy cool! > >See ya! >Apple >from Portland OR > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >It pays to be early to class…then you can watch the CUTE ones come in. >Find out what's hot at Talk City's back to school site. >Chat, games, fashion, prizes. http://clickhere./click/900 > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > ><{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< <o}}}}}>< ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ " Human beings were invented by water as a device for transporting itself from one place to another. " (from EVEN COWGIRLS GET THE BLUES / Tom Robbins) ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ <o}}}}}>< <{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< WATER IS LIFE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 1999 Report Share Posted September 16, 1999 Hey Apple! Portland is kewl.....and do you know you are two blocks from my house? and I both live in those lovely Park Blocks you are so close to. I live right across the street from Shemanski Park and the " " statue. Pretty neat to live right above Coffee People! See you tonight. Rebekah At 14:13 9/16/99 -0700, you wrote: >I love America! Here I sit in the County Public Library in Portland >Oregon, checking the 12-step-free list, and also my deprogramming >e-mail. Ahhhh.... I love technology. > >In response to the dialogue on the effectiveness of AA, please check >out the following link: Here's an excerpt: > >But there were differences in the relapse rate. Although the average >daily number of drinks and the number of drinking days a month declined >equally (and substantially) in all groups, more than 37 percent of the >men who were originally hospitalized remained abstinent for the entire >two years, as compared with 17 percent and 16 percent in the other two >groups; only >23 percent required additional hospitalization, as compared with 63 >percent of the AA group and 38 percent of the men who chose their own >treatment. Men in the AA group who also abused other drugs (mainly >cocaine) did especially poorly. > >Full text available at: >http://www.mentalhealth.com/fr20.html > >Tonight's plan? I'm meeting Rebekah and L. from this list for >dinner. Should be groovy cool! > >See ya! >Apple >from Portland OR > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >It pays to be early to class…then you can watch the CUTE ones come in. >Find out what's hot at Talk City's back to school site. >Chat, games, fashion, prizes. http://clickhere./click/900 > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > ><{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< <o}}}}}>< ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ " Human beings were invented by water as a device for transporting itself from one place to another. " (from EVEN COWGIRLS GET THE BLUES / Tom Robbins) ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ <o}}}}}>< <{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< WATER IS LIFE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 1999 Report Share Posted September 16, 1999 Have fun!!! Try to stay away from meetings. I'd love to be a fly on the wall of a meeting you three invaded! Makes me smile. kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 1999 Report Share Posted September 16, 1999 Have fun!!! Try to stay away from meetings. I'd love to be a fly on the wall of a meeting you three invaded! Makes me smile. kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 1999 Report Share Posted September 17, 1999 Hi all, We went to a Thai restaurant. After we walked down to the Alano club for a meeting, but drats, it was closed. Apple will be back through town and we are all going to crash a meeting. We are appraoching it like an Anthropological study. We will have a group report to give you! and I were totally impressed by Apple.....she is one smart and likable lady. We had a very fun time. WE gave her directions and sent her off to find her Bed and Breakfast all exhausted. Rebekah At 21:44 9/16/99 EDT, you wrote: >Have fun!!! Try to stay away from meetings. I'd love to be a fly on the >wall of a meeting you three invaded! Makes me smile. kathy > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >250 FREE HOURS are waiting for you on AOL! >Try AOL *risk free* for 250 HOURS! >CLICK HERE http://clickhere./click/915 > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > ><{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< <o}}}}}>< ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ " Human beings were invented by water as a device for transporting itself from one place to another. " (from EVEN COWGIRLS GET THE BLUES / Tom Robbins) ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ <o}}}}}>< <{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< WATER IS LIFE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 1999 Report Share Posted September 17, 1999 Hi all, We went to a Thai restaurant. After we walked down to the Alano club for a meeting, but drats, it was closed. Apple will be back through town and we are all going to crash a meeting. We are appraoching it like an Anthropological study. We will have a group report to give you! and I were totally impressed by Apple.....she is one smart and likable lady. We had a very fun time. WE gave her directions and sent her off to find her Bed and Breakfast all exhausted. Rebekah At 21:44 9/16/99 EDT, you wrote: >Have fun!!! Try to stay away from meetings. I'd love to be a fly on the >wall of a meeting you three invaded! Makes me smile. kathy > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >250 FREE HOURS are waiting for you on AOL! >Try AOL *risk free* for 250 HOURS! >CLICK HERE http://clickhere./click/915 > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > ><{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< <o}}}}}>< ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ " Human beings were invented by water as a device for transporting itself from one place to another. " (from EVEN COWGIRLS GET THE BLUES / Tom Robbins) ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ <o}}}}}>< <{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< WATER IS LIFE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 1999 Report Share Posted September 17, 1999 rebekah wrote: This really wierd. You mention Shemanski Park. My fiance's last name is Schamanski-butchered at Ellis Island in the late 1800's. The correct spelling is actually ZYMOYSKI (and I probably didn't spell it right, either!)- probably a relative. A rose by any other name. At any rate, the Zymoyski my fiance is related to was royalty; cam to the states in the late 1700s, didn't like it and went back to Poland! I always thought it was a funny story because you just never hear of immigrant GOING BACK! And Apple, ladies: Hope you three had a great time last night. That is so neat you dined together. I can just picture the three of you engrossed in conversation most of the night. I love sitting up talking to friends/lover. Nothing warms the heart and promotes a sense of well-being (or a good night's sleep, too!) like that does. I think a lot of us in the group want to hear about how it went if you'd like to share it. original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8072 > Hey Apple! Portland is kewl.....and do you know you are two blocks from my > house? > and I both live in those lovely Park Blocks you are so close to. I > live right across the street from Shemanski Park and the " " statue. > Pretty neat to live right above Coffee People! See you tonight. Rebekah > > > At 14:13 9/16/99 -0700, you wrote: > >I love America! Here I sit in the County Public Library in Portland > >Oregon, checking the 12-step-free list, and also my deprogramming > >e-mail. Ahhhh.... I love technology. > > > >In response to the dialogue on the effectiveness of AA, please check > >out the following link: Here's an excerpt: > > > >But there were differences in the relapse rate. Although the average > >daily number of drinks and the number of drinking days a month declined > >equally (and substantially) in all groups, more than 37 percent of the > >men who were originally hospitalized remained abstinent for the entire > >two years, as compared with 17 percent and 16 percent in the other two > >groups; only > >23 percent required additional hospitalization, as compared with 63 > >percent of the AA group and 38 percent of the men who chose their own > >treatment. Men in the AA group who also abused other drugs (mainly > >cocaine) did especially poorly. > > > >Full text available at: > >http://www.mentalhealth.com/fr20.html > > > >Tonight's plan? I'm meeting Rebekah and L. from this list for > >dinner. Should be groovy cool! > > > >See ya! > >Apple > >from Portland OR > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 1999 Report Share Posted September 17, 1999 HI Portlanders! Perhaps I can Fed Ex you some of my aadeprogramming cards for the meeting! Re: Update from Portland > > Hi all, > We went to a Thai restaurant. After we walked down to the Alano club for a > meeting, but drats, it was closed. Apple will be back through town and we > are all > going to crash a meeting. We are appraoching it like an Anthropological study. > We will have a group report to give you! > > and I were totally impressed by Apple.....she is one smart and > likable lady. > We had a very fun time. WE gave her directions and sent her off to find her > Bed and Breakfast all exhausted. Rebekah > > > At 21:44 9/16/99 EDT, you wrote: > >Have fun!!! Try to stay away from meetings. I'd love to be a fly on the > >wall of a meeting you three invaded! Makes me smile. kathy > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >250 FREE HOURS are waiting for you on AOL! > >Try AOL *risk free* for 250 HOURS! > >CLICK HERE http://clickhere./click/915 > > > > > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ><{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< <o}}}}}>< > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > " Human beings were invented by water > as a device for transporting itself > from one place to another. " > > (from EVEN COWGIRLS GET THE BLUES / Tom Robbins) > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > <o}}}}}>< <{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< > > WATER IS LIFE > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 250 FREE HOURS are waiting for you on AOL! > Try AOL *risk free* for 250 HOURS! > CLICK HERE http://clickhere./click/915 > > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 1999 Report Share Posted September 17, 1999 HI Portlanders! Perhaps I can Fed Ex you some of my aadeprogramming cards for the meeting! Re: Update from Portland > > Hi all, > We went to a Thai restaurant. After we walked down to the Alano club for a > meeting, but drats, it was closed. Apple will be back through town and we > are all > going to crash a meeting. We are appraoching it like an Anthropological study. > We will have a group report to give you! > > and I were totally impressed by Apple.....she is one smart and > likable lady. > We had a very fun time. WE gave her directions and sent her off to find her > Bed and Breakfast all exhausted. Rebekah > > > At 21:44 9/16/99 EDT, you wrote: > >Have fun!!! Try to stay away from meetings. I'd love to be a fly on the > >wall of a meeting you three invaded! Makes me smile. kathy > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >250 FREE HOURS are waiting for you on AOL! > >Try AOL *risk free* for 250 HOURS! > >CLICK HERE http://clickhere./click/915 > > > > > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ><{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< <o}}}}}>< > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > " Human beings were invented by water > as a device for transporting itself > from one place to another. " > > (from EVEN COWGIRLS GET THE BLUES / Tom Robbins) > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > <o}}}}}>< <{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< > > WATER IS LIFE > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 250 FREE HOURS are waiting for you on AOL! > Try AOL *risk free* for 250 HOURS! > CLICK HERE http://clickhere./click/915 > > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 1999 Report Share Posted September 17, 1999 HI Portlanders! Perhaps I can Fed Ex you some of my aadeprogramming cards for the meeting! Re: Update from Portland > > Hi all, > We went to a Thai restaurant. After we walked down to the Alano club for a > meeting, but drats, it was closed. Apple will be back through town and we > are all > going to crash a meeting. We are appraoching it like an Anthropological study. > We will have a group report to give you! > > and I were totally impressed by Apple.....she is one smart and > likable lady. > We had a very fun time. WE gave her directions and sent her off to find her > Bed and Breakfast all exhausted. Rebekah > > > At 21:44 9/16/99 EDT, you wrote: > >Have fun!!! Try to stay away from meetings. I'd love to be a fly on the > >wall of a meeting you three invaded! Makes me smile. kathy > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >250 FREE HOURS are waiting for you on AOL! > >Try AOL *risk free* for 250 HOURS! > >CLICK HERE http://clickhere./click/915 > > > > > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ><{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< <o}}}}}>< > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > " Human beings were invented by water > as a device for transporting itself > from one place to another. " > > (from EVEN COWGIRLS GET THE BLUES / Tom Robbins) > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > <o}}}}}>< <{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< > > WATER IS LIFE > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 250 FREE HOURS are waiting for you on AOL! > Try AOL *risk free* for 250 HOURS! > CLICK HERE http://clickhere./click/915 > > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 1999 Report Share Posted September 17, 1999 Hi , WE did have one weird incident. We were waiting for a bus back to Apple's car, and we were approacched by this man inquiring about the bus. I told him where the bus stopped, and no, that I couldn't promise him when the bus would arrive because they never seemed to run on schedule. He was very belligerant.....got all huffy and noticed we were very engossed in conversation. He obviously thought we would be so impressed with him that we would immediatly stop our conversation and want to talk with him about something other than the bus. I think he was drunk, and obviously some renegade from a 12 step group. Turns out he was.....was known to another woman on the bus that works for a downtown sociol service agency in the Chemical Dependency field. It just seems to prove my point that AA is filled with so many con artists and predators. Not always a real healthy environment for women. That is one of the leading reasons I left AA. I didn't want to spend anymore time with so many people who had so many sick behaviors. Everything was always dismissed with.....they are sober...or they are trying to get sober. Drinking or using drugs has ceased to be an issue in my life. The whacked-out, shame-based rhetoric and concepts contained in the steps makes my stomach knot up. Going to a meeting seems just as repulsive as wandering into some sleazy bar. It might be enlightening to wander into a meeting after years of recovery from them in the safe company of Apple and . I am ashamed to say that I remember a time where I thought the whole world should be in a 12 step group. I guess I was just caught up in the evangelical zeal of the cult. It seems like a lifetime ago. Rebekah > >And Apple, ladies: Hope you three had a great time last night. That >is so neat you dined together. I can just picture the three of you >engrossed in conversation most of the night. I love sitting up talking >to friends/lover. Nothing warms the heart and promotes a sense of >well-being (or a good night's sleep, too!) like that does. > >I think a lot of us in the group want to hear about how it went if >you'd like to share it. > > >original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8072 >> Hey Apple! Portland is kewl.....and do you know you are two blocks >from my >> house? >> and I both live in those lovely Park Blocks you are so close >to. I >> live right across the street from Shemanski Park and the " " >statue. >> Pretty neat to live right above Coffee People! See you tonight. >Rebekah >> >> >> At 14:13 9/16/99 -0700, you wrote: >> >I love America! Here I sit in the County Public Library in Portland >> >Oregon, checking the 12-step-free list, and also my deprogramming >> >e-mail. Ahhhh.... I love technology. >> > >> >In response to the dialogue on the effectiveness of AA, please check >> >out the following link: Here's an excerpt: >> > >> >But there were differences in the relapse rate. Although the average >> >daily number of drinks and the number of drinking days a month >declined >> >equally (and substantially) in all groups, more than 37 percent of >the >> >men who were originally hospitalized remained abstinent for the >entire >> >two years, as compared with 17 percent and 16 percent in the other >two >> >groups; only >> >23 percent required additional hospitalization, as compared with 63 >> >percent of the AA group and 38 percent of the men who chose their own >> >treatment. Men in the AA group who also abused other drugs (mainly >> >cocaine) did especially poorly. >> > >> >Full text available at: >> >http://www.mentalhealth.com/fr20.html >> > >> >Tonight's plan? I'm meeting Rebekah and L. from this list for >> >dinner. Should be groovy cool! >> > >> >See ya! >> >Apple >> >from Portland OR >> > >> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >250 FREE HOURS are waiting for you on AOL! >Try AOL *risk free* for 250 HOURS! >CLICK HERE http://clickhere./click/915 > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > ><{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< <o}}}}}>< ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ " Human beings were invented by water as a device for transporting itself from one place to another. " (from EVEN COWGIRLS GET THE BLUES / Tom Robbins) ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ <o}}}}}>< <{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< WATER IS LIFE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 1999 Report Share Posted September 17, 1999 Hi , WE did have one weird incident. We were waiting for a bus back to Apple's car, and we were approacched by this man inquiring about the bus. I told him where the bus stopped, and no, that I couldn't promise him when the bus would arrive because they never seemed to run on schedule. He was very belligerant.....got all huffy and noticed we were very engossed in conversation. He obviously thought we would be so impressed with him that we would immediatly stop our conversation and want to talk with him about something other than the bus. I think he was drunk, and obviously some renegade from a 12 step group. Turns out he was.....was known to another woman on the bus that works for a downtown sociol service agency in the Chemical Dependency field. It just seems to prove my point that AA is filled with so many con artists and predators. Not always a real healthy environment for women. That is one of the leading reasons I left AA. I didn't want to spend anymore time with so many people who had so many sick behaviors. Everything was always dismissed with.....they are sober...or they are trying to get sober. Drinking or using drugs has ceased to be an issue in my life. The whacked-out, shame-based rhetoric and concepts contained in the steps makes my stomach knot up. Going to a meeting seems just as repulsive as wandering into some sleazy bar. It might be enlightening to wander into a meeting after years of recovery from them in the safe company of Apple and . I am ashamed to say that I remember a time where I thought the whole world should be in a 12 step group. I guess I was just caught up in the evangelical zeal of the cult. It seems like a lifetime ago. Rebekah > >And Apple, ladies: Hope you three had a great time last night. That >is so neat you dined together. I can just picture the three of you >engrossed in conversation most of the night. I love sitting up talking >to friends/lover. Nothing warms the heart and promotes a sense of >well-being (or a good night's sleep, too!) like that does. > >I think a lot of us in the group want to hear about how it went if >you'd like to share it. > > >original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8072 >> Hey Apple! Portland is kewl.....and do you know you are two blocks >from my >> house? >> and I both live in those lovely Park Blocks you are so close >to. I >> live right across the street from Shemanski Park and the " " >statue. >> Pretty neat to live right above Coffee People! See you tonight. >Rebekah >> >> >> At 14:13 9/16/99 -0700, you wrote: >> >I love America! Here I sit in the County Public Library in Portland >> >Oregon, checking the 12-step-free list, and also my deprogramming >> >e-mail. Ahhhh.... I love technology. >> > >> >In response to the dialogue on the effectiveness of AA, please check >> >out the following link: Here's an excerpt: >> > >> >But there were differences in the relapse rate. Although the average >> >daily number of drinks and the number of drinking days a month >declined >> >equally (and substantially) in all groups, more than 37 percent of >the >> >men who were originally hospitalized remained abstinent for the >entire >> >two years, as compared with 17 percent and 16 percent in the other >two >> >groups; only >> >23 percent required additional hospitalization, as compared with 63 >> >percent of the AA group and 38 percent of the men who chose their own >> >treatment. Men in the AA group who also abused other drugs (mainly >> >cocaine) did especially poorly. >> > >> >Full text available at: >> >http://www.mentalhealth.com/fr20.html >> > >> >Tonight's plan? I'm meeting Rebekah and L. from this list for >> >dinner. Should be groovy cool! >> > >> >See ya! >> >Apple >> >from Portland OR >> > >> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >250 FREE HOURS are waiting for you on AOL! >Try AOL *risk free* for 250 HOURS! >CLICK HERE http://clickhere./click/915 > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > ><{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< <o}}}}}>< ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ " Human beings were invented by water as a device for transporting itself from one place to another. " (from EVEN COWGIRLS GET THE BLUES / Tom Robbins) ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ <o}}}}}>< <{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< WATER IS LIFE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 1999 Report Share Posted September 17, 1999 Hi , WE did have one weird incident. We were waiting for a bus back to Apple's car, and we were approacched by this man inquiring about the bus. I told him where the bus stopped, and no, that I couldn't promise him when the bus would arrive because they never seemed to run on schedule. He was very belligerant.....got all huffy and noticed we were very engossed in conversation. He obviously thought we would be so impressed with him that we would immediatly stop our conversation and want to talk with him about something other than the bus. I think he was drunk, and obviously some renegade from a 12 step group. Turns out he was.....was known to another woman on the bus that works for a downtown sociol service agency in the Chemical Dependency field. It just seems to prove my point that AA is filled with so many con artists and predators. Not always a real healthy environment for women. That is one of the leading reasons I left AA. I didn't want to spend anymore time with so many people who had so many sick behaviors. Everything was always dismissed with.....they are sober...or they are trying to get sober. Drinking or using drugs has ceased to be an issue in my life. The whacked-out, shame-based rhetoric and concepts contained in the steps makes my stomach knot up. Going to a meeting seems just as repulsive as wandering into some sleazy bar. It might be enlightening to wander into a meeting after years of recovery from them in the safe company of Apple and . I am ashamed to say that I remember a time where I thought the whole world should be in a 12 step group. I guess I was just caught up in the evangelical zeal of the cult. It seems like a lifetime ago. Rebekah > >And Apple, ladies: Hope you three had a great time last night. That >is so neat you dined together. I can just picture the three of you >engrossed in conversation most of the night. I love sitting up talking >to friends/lover. Nothing warms the heart and promotes a sense of >well-being (or a good night's sleep, too!) like that does. > >I think a lot of us in the group want to hear about how it went if >you'd like to share it. > > >original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8072 >> Hey Apple! Portland is kewl.....and do you know you are two blocks >from my >> house? >> and I both live in those lovely Park Blocks you are so close >to. I >> live right across the street from Shemanski Park and the " " >statue. >> Pretty neat to live right above Coffee People! See you tonight. >Rebekah >> >> >> At 14:13 9/16/99 -0700, you wrote: >> >I love America! Here I sit in the County Public Library in Portland >> >Oregon, checking the 12-step-free list, and also my deprogramming >> >e-mail. Ahhhh.... I love technology. >> > >> >In response to the dialogue on the effectiveness of AA, please check >> >out the following link: Here's an excerpt: >> > >> >But there were differences in the relapse rate. Although the average >> >daily number of drinks and the number of drinking days a month >declined >> >equally (and substantially) in all groups, more than 37 percent of >the >> >men who were originally hospitalized remained abstinent for the >entire >> >two years, as compared with 17 percent and 16 percent in the other >two >> >groups; only >> >23 percent required additional hospitalization, as compared with 63 >> >percent of the AA group and 38 percent of the men who chose their own >> >treatment. Men in the AA group who also abused other drugs (mainly >> >cocaine) did especially poorly. >> > >> >Full text available at: >> >http://www.mentalhealth.com/fr20.html >> > >> >Tonight's plan? I'm meeting Rebekah and L. from this list for >> >dinner. Should be groovy cool! >> > >> >See ya! >> >Apple >> >from Portland OR >> > >> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >250 FREE HOURS are waiting for you on AOL! >Try AOL *risk free* for 250 HOURS! >CLICK HERE http://clickhere./click/915 > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > ><{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< <o}}}}}>< ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ " Human beings were invented by water as a device for transporting itself from one place to another. " (from EVEN COWGIRLS GET THE BLUES / Tom Robbins) ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ <o}}}}}>< <{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< WATER IS LIFE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 1999 Report Share Posted September 17, 1999 When I was at Oxford in the 1960s there was a bay at Queen's College by the name of Count Adam Zamoyski (Count is a title, not a name as in Basie). He was, as you might expect, very aristocratic and refined in a Chopinesque sort of way. The next time I saw his name was on a bottle of Vodka as Zamoyski is now a brand name like Smirnoff; same kind of Vodka I think. I imagine the vodka and the Count are related. Re: Update from Portland >rebekah wrote: > >This really wierd. You mention Shemanski Park. My fiance's last name >is Schamanski-butchered at Ellis Island in the late 1800's. The >correct spelling is actually ZYMOYSKI (and I probably didn't spell it >right, either!)- probably a relative. A rose by any other name. At >any rate, the Zymoyski my fiance is related to was royalty; cam to the >states in the late 1700s, didn't like it and went back to Poland! I >always thought it was a funny story because you just never hear of >immigrant GOING BACK! > >And Apple, ladies: Hope you three had a great time last night. That >is so neat you dined together. I can just picture the three of you >engrossed in conversation most of the night. I love sitting up talking >to friends/lover. Nothing warms the heart and promotes a sense of >well-being (or a good night's sleep, too!) like that does. > >I think a lot of us in the group want to hear about how it went if >you'd like to share it. > > >original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8072 >> Hey Apple! Portland is kewl.....and do you know you are two blocks >from my >> house? >> and I both live in those lovely Park Blocks you are so close >to. I >> live right across the street from Shemanski Park and the " " >statue. >> Pretty neat to live right above Coffee People! See you tonight. >Rebekah >> >> >> At 14:13 9/16/99 -0700, you wrote: >> >I love America! Here I sit in the County Public Library in Portland >> >Oregon, checking the 12-step-free list, and also my deprogramming >> >e-mail. Ahhhh.... I love technology. >> > >> >In response to the dialogue on the effectiveness of AA, please check >> >out the following link: Here's an excerpt: >> > >> >But there were differences in the relapse rate. Although the average >> >daily number of drinks and the number of drinking days a month >declined >> >equally (and substantially) in all groups, more than 37 percent of >the >> >men who were originally hospitalized remained abstinent for the >entire >> >two years, as compared with 17 percent and 16 percent in the other >two >> >groups; only >> >23 percent required additional hospitalization, as compared with 63 >> >percent of the AA group and 38 percent of the men who chose their own >> >treatment. Men in the AA group who also abused other drugs (mainly >> >cocaine) did especially poorly. >> > >> >Full text available at: >> >http://www.mentalhealth.com/fr20.html >> > >> >Tonight's plan? I'm meeting Rebekah and L. from this list for >> >dinner. Should be groovy cool! >> > >> >See ya! >> >Apple >> >from Portland OR >> > >> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >250 FREE HOURS are waiting for you on AOL! >Try AOL *risk free* for 250 HOURS! >CLICK HERE http://clickhere./click/915 > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 1999 Report Share Posted September 17, 1999 I mean " boy " , not " bay " - a young man, not a young horse, of course ..... Re: Update from Portland > > >>rebekah wrote: >> >>This really wierd. You mention Shemanski Park. My fiance's last name >>is Schamanski-butchered at Ellis Island in the late 1800's. The >>correct spelling is actually ZYMOYSKI (and I probably didn't spell it >>right, either!)- probably a relative. A rose by any other name. At >>any rate, the Zymoyski my fiance is related to was royalty; cam to the >>states in the late 1700s, didn't like it and went back to Poland! I >>always thought it was a funny story because you just never hear of >>immigrant GOING BACK! >> >>And Apple, ladies: Hope you three had a great time last night. That >>is so neat you dined together. I can just picture the three of you >>engrossed in conversation most of the night. I love sitting up talking >>to friends/lover. Nothing warms the heart and promotes a sense of >>well-being (or a good night's sleep, too!) like that does. >> >>I think a lot of us in the group want to hear about how it went if >>you'd like to share it. >> >> >>original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8072 >>> Hey Apple! Portland is kewl.....and do you know you are two blocks >>from my >>> house? >>> and I both live in those lovely Park Blocks you are so close >>to. I >>> live right across the street from Shemanski Park and the " " >>statue. >>> Pretty neat to live right above Coffee People! See you tonight. >>Rebekah >>> >>> >>> At 14:13 9/16/99 -0700, you wrote: >>> >I love America! Here I sit in the County Public Library in Portland >>> >Oregon, checking the 12-step-free list, and also my deprogramming >>> >e-mail. Ahhhh.... I love technology. >>> > >>> >In response to the dialogue on the effectiveness of AA, please check >>> >out the following link: Here's an excerpt: >>> > >>> >But there were differences in the relapse rate. Although the average >>> >daily number of drinks and the number of drinking days a month >>declined >>> >equally (and substantially) in all groups, more than 37 percent of >>the >>> >men who were originally hospitalized remained abstinent for the >>entire >>> >two years, as compared with 17 percent and 16 percent in the other >>two >>> >groups; only >>> >23 percent required additional hospitalization, as compared with 63 >>> >percent of the AA group and 38 percent of the men who chose their own >>> >treatment. Men in the AA group who also abused other drugs (mainly >>> >cocaine) did especially poorly. >>> > >>> >Full text available at: >>> >http://www.mentalhealth.com/fr20.html >>> > >>> >Tonight's plan? I'm meeting Rebekah and L. from this list for >>> >dinner. Should be groovy cool! >>> > >>> >See ya! >>> >Apple >>> >from Portland OR >>> > >>> > >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>250 FREE HOURS are waiting for you on AOL! >>Try AOL *risk free* for 250 HOURS! >>CLICK HERE http://clickhere./click/915 >> >> >> >>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free >> - Simplifying group communications >> >> >> >> >> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >BETTER THAN EVER: 250 HOURS FREE on AOL! Find out why 18 MM >people have chosen AOL as their ISP! Click here NOW! for >250 Free HOURS http://clickhere./click/914 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 1999 Report Share Posted September 17, 1999 Oh, I don't remember... but the title sort of gives it away. I like that Menatal health site, it's a good one. Apple > > > Full text available at: > > http://www.mentalhealth.com/fr20.html > > Which article from all those available on the site is the article from? Do > you recall? > > Have fun at dinner! > > Regards, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 1999 Report Share Posted September 17, 1999 Actually, & Rebekah are planning a meeting outing. The three of us will head to the Alano club. It's in a friggin' mansion! Beautiful. Mahvelous. They told me that the upstairs is kushy couches and lawyers & doctors, and the basement is winos and bikers. We will prepare a full report and post it. hee hee hee. Apple balihai33-@... wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8074 > Have fun!!! Try to stay away from meetings. I'd love to be a fly on the > wall of a meeting you three invaded! Makes me smile. kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 1999 Report Share Posted September 17, 1999 awwww.... It was kewl to meet you two as well! Groovy Portland chicks. Don't forget the nice man we met at the bus stop. Now people like that DO belong in AA. Better that than public streets. Apple > > Hi all, > We went to a Thai restaurant. After we walked down to the Alano club for a > meeting, but drats, it was closed. Apple will be back through town and we > are all > going to crash a meeting. We are appraoching it like an Anthropological study. > We will have a group report to give you! > > and I were totally impressed by Apple.....she is one smart and > likable lady. > We had a very fun time. WE gave her directions and sent her off to find her > Bed and Breakfast all exhausted. Rebekah > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 1999 Report Share Posted September 17, 1999 , it might be cheaper if we just made them. But I definitely will send decals to & Rebekah to " decorate " the Alano club. I think that the decals should be put in strange places, so they keep finding them. Like on the reverse side of couch cushions, inside books & literature, all over the place. It'll be like a treasure hunt to find them all. yuk yuk Apple > HI Portlanders! > > Perhaps I can Fed Ex you some of my aadeprogramming cards for the meeting! > > > Re: Update from Portland > > > > > > Hi all, > > We went to a Thai restaurant. After we walked down to the Alano club for a > > meeting, but drats, it was closed. Apple will be back through town and we > > are all > > going to crash a meeting. We are appraoching it like an Anthropological > study. > > We will have a group report to give you! > > > > and I were totally impressed by Apple.....she is one smart and > > likable lady. > > We had a very fun time. WE gave her directions and sent her off to find > her > > Bed and Breakfast all exhausted. Rebekah > > > > > > At 21:44 9/16/99 EDT, you wrote: > > >Have fun!!! Try to stay away from meetings. I'd love to be a fly on the > > >wall of a meeting you three invaded! Makes me smile. kathy > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ > > >250 FREE HOURS are waiting for you on AOL! > > >Try AOL *risk free* for 250 HOURS! > > >CLICK HERE http://clickhere./click/915 > > > > > > > > > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ><{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< <o}}}}}>< > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > " Human beings were invented by water > > as a device for transporting itself > > from one place to another. " > > > > (from EVEN COWGIRLS GET THE BLUES / Tom Robbins) > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > <o}}}}}>< <{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< > > > > WATER IS LIFE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 1999 Report Share Posted September 17, 1999 I WANT TO GO TOO! Wow the first time I've wanted to go to a meeting EVER!!!! How fun! Still want a booth in Hawaii at the AA Convention in October. How about same time next year. I have friends a few of us could stay with on the beach in Waimanalo. I mean, in a house on the beach in Waimanalo. Well, try not to create too much of a disturbance at the meeting. Oh, never mind. Kick up your heels! Jealous in New Mexico.... Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 1999 Report Share Posted September 17, 1999 I WANT TO GO TOO! Wow the first time I've wanted to go to a meeting EVER!!!! How fun! Still want a booth in Hawaii at the AA Convention in October. How about same time next year. I have friends a few of us could stay with on the beach in Waimanalo. I mean, in a house on the beach in Waimanalo. Well, try not to create too much of a disturbance at the meeting. Oh, never mind. Kick up your heels! Jealous in New Mexico.... Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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