Guest guest Posted August 15, 1999 Report Share Posted August 15, 1999 In a message dated 8/15/99 6:01:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, flicka1@... writes: << OK pretend I'm a newcomer. Let me get this straight, I'm sitting in my 5th meeting and they are talking about thinking about drinking means I've still got that obsession and if I still have that obsession I need more meetings to hear talk about drinking so I don't think about drinking. >> Exactamente. It is also quite evident that you are not " working your program " , that you are not " in these rooms " enough, that " God is not working in your life today " . And you better hook up with your sponsor pronto. Post that you are thinking about drinking on the AA Boards, if you can stomach the idea. You poor chipless fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 1999 Report Share Posted August 15, 1999 In a message dated 8/15/99 6:01:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, flicka1@... writes: << OK pretend I'm a newcomer. Let me get this straight, I'm sitting in my 5th meeting and they are talking about thinking about drinking means I've still got that obsession and if I still have that obsession I need more meetings to hear talk about drinking so I don't think about drinking. >> Exactamente. It is also quite evident that you are not " working your program " , that you are not " in these rooms " enough, that " God is not working in your life today " . And you better hook up with your sponsor pronto. Post that you are thinking about drinking on the AA Boards, if you can stomach the idea. You poor chipless fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 1999 Report Share Posted August 15, 1999 In a message dated 8/15/99 6:01:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, flicka1@... writes: << OK pretend I'm a newcomer. Let me get this straight, I'm sitting in my 5th meeting and they are talking about thinking about drinking means I've still got that obsession and if I still have that obsession I need more meetings to hear talk about drinking so I don't think about drinking. >> Exactamente. It is also quite evident that you are not " working your program " , that you are not " in these rooms " enough, that " God is not working in your life today " . And you better hook up with your sponsor pronto. Post that you are thinking about drinking on the AA Boards, if you can stomach the idea. You poor chipless fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 1999 Report Share Posted August 15, 1999 I too have heard similar statements and would have to say they are bare arsed lies based on denial of ones own thoughts. A result right out of ritualized brainwashing. It is follows along the lines of the same AA mysticism that god is the one who has removed the obsession rather than the individaul human being dealing with their own desire to drink. AA flat out denies that being responsible to deal with ones own desire is possible. So the logic in AA is that the desire comes from the individual but the individaul is not responsible for the desire. So denial of ones real thoughts plays right into this. The AA'ers think about drinking it just sounds good in meetings to say they don't; and many do very well believe this. This also points to how the program cultivates self deception about what one actually thinks about as an asset to working the program. For example, thinking aout drinking is bad so I didn't think about it. Thinking about drinking is only a thought. I try to be as clear as possible with myself about what I think. I want to be as aware as possible about what I am really thinking, then, as far as what I do in my behavior it is my choice and another matter. One of the scariest things about the way AA'ers deal with desires and thoughts is they truly believe that god not they are responsible. Has anyone ever heard such things as, I am an alcoholic and drinking is what I do but I haven't had a drink today and that is evidence of god working in my life. Pass the hat, time to barf. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd often heard this in AA meetings, and through most of my going to AA it was true for me too - this is not a slogan, but an observation that is sometimes made in AA meetings: " Nowadays, with a little time sober, the only time I even think about drinking is when I'm in an AA meeting. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 1999 Report Share Posted August 15, 1999 , OK pretend I'm a newcomer. Let me get this straight, I'm sitting in my 5th meeting and they are talking about thinking about drinking means I've still got that obsession and if I still have that obsession I need more meetings to hear talk about drinking so I don't think about drinking. HELP, GET ME OUTTA HERE Jan those aa thoughts >I too have heard similar statements and would have to say they are bare >arsed lies based on denial of ones own thoughts. A result right out of >ritualized brainwashing. It is follows along the lines of the same AA >mysticism that god is the one who has removed the obsession rather than >the individaul human being dealing with their own desire to drink. AA >flat out denies that being responsible to deal with ones own desire is >possible. So the logic in AA is that the desire comes from the >individual but the individaul is not responsible for the desire. So >denial of ones real thoughts plays right into this. The AA'ers think >about drinking it just sounds good in meetings to say they don't; and >many do very well believe this. This also points to how the program >cultivates self deception about what one actually thinks about as an >asset to working the program. For example, thinking aout drinking is bad >so I didn't think about it. Thinking about drinking is only a thought. I >try to be as clear as possible with myself about what I think. I want to >be as aware as possible about what I am really thinking, then, as far >as what I do in my behavior it is my choice and another matter. >One of the scariest things about the way AA'ers deal with desires and >thoughts is they truly believe that god not they are responsible. Has >anyone ever heard such things as, I am an alcoholic and drinking is what >I do but I haven't had a drink today and that is evidence of god working >in my life. Pass the hat, time to barf. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >I'd often heard this in AA meetings, and through most of my going to >AA it was true for me too - this is not a slogan, but an observation >that >is sometimes made in AA meetings: " Nowadays, with a little time sober, >the >only time I even think about drinking is when I'm in an AA meeting. " > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >ebates.com. Earn up to 25% cash back for shopping online at 75 stores >like Borders, CDNow and Beyond.com. Refer a friend and earn even more! >http://clickhere./click/690 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 1999 Report Share Posted August 15, 1999 I always thought AA seemed just like an Amway meeting. Ever been to one of those? Rebekah ---------- > >To: <12-step-freeegroups> >Subject: Re: those aa thoughts >Date: Sun, Aug 15, 1999, 5:58 AM > >, > >OK pretend I'm a newcomer. Let me get this straight, I'm sitting in my 5th >meeting and they are talking about thinking about drinking means I've still >got that obsession and if I still have that obsession I need more meetings >to hear talk about drinking so I don't think about drinking. > >HELP, GET ME OUTTA HERE > >Jan > > > those aa thoughts > > >>I too have heard similar statements and would have to say they are bare >>arsed lies based on denial of ones own thoughts. A result right out of >>ritualized brainwashing. It is follows along the lines of the same AA >>mysticism that god is the one who has removed the obsession rather than >>the individaul human being dealing with their own desire to drink. AA >>flat out denies that being responsible to deal with ones own desire is >>possible. So the logic in AA is that the desire comes from the >>individual but the individaul is not responsible for the desire. So >>denial of ones real thoughts plays right into this. The AA'ers think >>about drinking it just sounds good in meetings to say they don't; and >>many do very well believe this. This also points to how the program >>cultivates self deception about what one actually thinks about as an >>asset to working the program. For example, thinking aout drinking is bad >>so I didn't think about it. Thinking about drinking is only a thought. I >>try to be as clear as possible with myself about what I think. I want to >>be as aware as possible about what I am really thinking, then, as far >>as what I do in my behavior it is my choice and another matter. >>One of the scariest things about the way AA'ers deal with desires and >>thoughts is they truly believe that god not they are responsible. Has >>anyone ever heard such things as, I am an alcoholic and drinking is what >>I do but I haven't had a drink today and that is evidence of god working >>in my life. Pass the hat, time to barf. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>I'd often heard this in AA meetings, and through most of my going to >>AA it was true for me too - this is not a slogan, but an observation >>that >>is sometimes made in AA meetings: " Nowadays, with a little time sober, >>the >>only time I even think about drinking is when I'm in an AA meeting. " >> >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>ebates.com. Earn up to 25% cash back for shopping online at 75 stores >>like Borders, CDNow and Beyond.com. Refer a friend and earn even more! >>http://clickhere./click/690 >> >> >>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free >> - Simplifying group communications >> >> >> >> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Click here for 4 FREE TRIAL ISSUES of Sports Illustrated! If you're >satisfied, your subscription will continue at the guaranteed lowest rate >of $.75 an issue for 52 issues! http://clickhere./click/678 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 1999 Report Share Posted August 15, 1999 I always thought AA seemed just like an Amway meeting. Ever been to one of those? Rebekah ---------- > >To: <12-step-freeegroups> >Subject: Re: those aa thoughts >Date: Sun, Aug 15, 1999, 5:58 AM > >, > >OK pretend I'm a newcomer. Let me get this straight, I'm sitting in my 5th >meeting and they are talking about thinking about drinking means I've still >got that obsession and if I still have that obsession I need more meetings >to hear talk about drinking so I don't think about drinking. > >HELP, GET ME OUTTA HERE > >Jan > > > those aa thoughts > > >>I too have heard similar statements and would have to say they are bare >>arsed lies based on denial of ones own thoughts. A result right out of >>ritualized brainwashing. It is follows along the lines of the same AA >>mysticism that god is the one who has removed the obsession rather than >>the individaul human being dealing with their own desire to drink. AA >>flat out denies that being responsible to deal with ones own desire is >>possible. So the logic in AA is that the desire comes from the >>individual but the individaul is not responsible for the desire. So >>denial of ones real thoughts plays right into this. The AA'ers think >>about drinking it just sounds good in meetings to say they don't; and >>many do very well believe this. This also points to how the program >>cultivates self deception about what one actually thinks about as an >>asset to working the program. For example, thinking aout drinking is bad >>so I didn't think about it. Thinking about drinking is only a thought. I >>try to be as clear as possible with myself about what I think. I want to >>be as aware as possible about what I am really thinking, then, as far >>as what I do in my behavior it is my choice and another matter. >>One of the scariest things about the way AA'ers deal with desires and >>thoughts is they truly believe that god not they are responsible. Has >>anyone ever heard such things as, I am an alcoholic and drinking is what >>I do but I haven't had a drink today and that is evidence of god working >>in my life. Pass the hat, time to barf. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>I'd often heard this in AA meetings, and through most of my going to >>AA it was true for me too - this is not a slogan, but an observation >>that >>is sometimes made in AA meetings: " Nowadays, with a little time sober, >>the >>only time I even think about drinking is when I'm in an AA meeting. " >> >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>ebates.com. Earn up to 25% cash back for shopping online at 75 stores >>like Borders, CDNow and Beyond.com. Refer a friend and earn even more! >>http://clickhere./click/690 >> >> >>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free >> - Simplifying group communications >> >> >> >> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Click here for 4 FREE TRIAL ISSUES of Sports Illustrated! If you're >satisfied, your subscription will continue at the guaranteed lowest rate >of $.75 an issue for 52 issues! http://clickhere./click/678 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 1999 Report Share Posted August 15, 1999 I always thought AA seemed just like an Amway meeting. Ever been to one of those? Rebekah ---------- > >To: <12-step-freeegroups> >Subject: Re: those aa thoughts >Date: Sun, Aug 15, 1999, 5:58 AM > >, > >OK pretend I'm a newcomer. Let me get this straight, I'm sitting in my 5th >meeting and they are talking about thinking about drinking means I've still >got that obsession and if I still have that obsession I need more meetings >to hear talk about drinking so I don't think about drinking. > >HELP, GET ME OUTTA HERE > >Jan > > > those aa thoughts > > >>I too have heard similar statements and would have to say they are bare >>arsed lies based on denial of ones own thoughts. A result right out of >>ritualized brainwashing. It is follows along the lines of the same AA >>mysticism that god is the one who has removed the obsession rather than >>the individaul human being dealing with their own desire to drink. AA >>flat out denies that being responsible to deal with ones own desire is >>possible. So the logic in AA is that the desire comes from the >>individual but the individaul is not responsible for the desire. So >>denial of ones real thoughts plays right into this. The AA'ers think >>about drinking it just sounds good in meetings to say they don't; and >>many do very well believe this. This also points to how the program >>cultivates self deception about what one actually thinks about as an >>asset to working the program. For example, thinking aout drinking is bad >>so I didn't think about it. Thinking about drinking is only a thought. I >>try to be as clear as possible with myself about what I think. I want to >>be as aware as possible about what I am really thinking, then, as far >>as what I do in my behavior it is my choice and another matter. >>One of the scariest things about the way AA'ers deal with desires and >>thoughts is they truly believe that god not they are responsible. Has >>anyone ever heard such things as, I am an alcoholic and drinking is what >>I do but I haven't had a drink today and that is evidence of god working >>in my life. Pass the hat, time to barf. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>I'd often heard this in AA meetings, and through most of my going to >>AA it was true for me too - this is not a slogan, but an observation >>that >>is sometimes made in AA meetings: " Nowadays, with a little time sober, >>the >>only time I even think about drinking is when I'm in an AA meeting. " >> >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>ebates.com. Earn up to 25% cash back for shopping online at 75 stores >>like Borders, CDNow and Beyond.com. Refer a friend and earn even more! >>http://clickhere./click/690 >> >> >>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free >> - Simplifying group communications >> >> >> >> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Click here for 4 FREE TRIAL ISSUES of Sports Illustrated! If you're >satisfied, your subscription will continue at the guaranteed lowest rate >of $.75 an issue for 52 issues! http://clickhere./click/678 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 1999 Report Share Posted August 15, 1999 Hi , It blows my mind sometimes when I think of all the ritualized delusion we practiced. Their nonstop magical thinking and preoccupation with a Tzar of the universe who is at their beck and call to procure parking spaces and supplying. rational thoughts to a mind that is constantly immersed in fantasy. I went to the movies with a very good AA friend, and told him of my born again moderate drinker status. He was a friend and didn't bury me under a mound of slogans and platitudes. He was very cool. Concerned but respectful. What gave me the creeps is that we ran into 2 other AA's outside the multiplex. Inside the the theater the only decent seats available were next to 2 completely different AA's, a couple of real water walkers. So here I am watching a movie about ghosts(Sixth Sense) sandwiched in between 3 pod people. What a magical thinking opportunity. I have journals filled with the shit. You know that Christian slogan WWJD(what would Jesus do?) I made up another one for me. WWCSD(what would Carl Sagan do?) I'm going to reread THE DEMON HAUNTED WORLD by SAGAN again and hopefully stave off a full blown relapse into AA's delusional mindset. wrote: > > I too have heard similar statements and would have to say they are bare > arsed lies based on denial of ones own thoughts. A result right out of > ritualized brainwashing. It is follows along the lines of the same AA > mysticism that god is the one who has removed the obsession rather than > the individaul human being dealing with their own desire to drink. AA > flat out denies that being responsible to deal with ones own desire is > possible. So the logic in AA is that the desire comes from the > individual but the individaul is not responsible for the desire. So > denial of ones real thoughts plays right into this. The AA'ers think > about drinking it just sounds good in meetings to say they don't; and > many do very well believe this. This also points to how the program > cultivates self deception about what one actually thinks about as an > asset to working the program. For example, thinking aout drinking is bad > so I didn't think about it. Thinking about drinking is only a thought. I > try to be as clear as possible with myself about what I think. I want to > be as aware as possible about what I am really thinking, then, as far > as what I do in my behavior it is my choice and another matter. > One of the scariest things about the way AA'ers deal with desires and > thoughts is they truly believe that god not they are responsible. Has > anyone ever heard such things as, I am an alcoholic and drinking is what > I do but I haven't had a drink today and that is evidence of god working > in my life. Pass the hat, time to barf. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > I'd often heard this in AA meetings, and through most of my going to > AA it was true for me too - this is not a slogan, but an observation > that > is sometimes made in AA meetings: " Nowadays, with a little time sober, > the > only time I even think about drinking is when I'm in an AA meeting. " > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ebates.com. Earn up to 25% cash back for shopping online at 75 stores > like Borders, CDNow and Beyond.com. Refer a friend and earn even more! > http://clickhere./click/690 > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 1999 Report Share Posted August 15, 1999 Hi , It blows my mind sometimes when I think of all the ritualized delusion we practiced. Their nonstop magical thinking and preoccupation with a Tzar of the universe who is at their beck and call to procure parking spaces and supplying. rational thoughts to a mind that is constantly immersed in fantasy. I went to the movies with a very good AA friend, and told him of my born again moderate drinker status. He was a friend and didn't bury me under a mound of slogans and platitudes. He was very cool. Concerned but respectful. What gave me the creeps is that we ran into 2 other AA's outside the multiplex. Inside the the theater the only decent seats available were next to 2 completely different AA's, a couple of real water walkers. So here I am watching a movie about ghosts(Sixth Sense) sandwiched in between 3 pod people. What a magical thinking opportunity. I have journals filled with the shit. You know that Christian slogan WWJD(what would Jesus do?) I made up another one for me. WWCSD(what would Carl Sagan do?) I'm going to reread THE DEMON HAUNTED WORLD by SAGAN again and hopefully stave off a full blown relapse into AA's delusional mindset. wrote: > > I too have heard similar statements and would have to say they are bare > arsed lies based on denial of ones own thoughts. A result right out of > ritualized brainwashing. It is follows along the lines of the same AA > mysticism that god is the one who has removed the obsession rather than > the individaul human being dealing with their own desire to drink. AA > flat out denies that being responsible to deal with ones own desire is > possible. So the logic in AA is that the desire comes from the > individual but the individaul is not responsible for the desire. So > denial of ones real thoughts plays right into this. The AA'ers think > about drinking it just sounds good in meetings to say they don't; and > many do very well believe this. This also points to how the program > cultivates self deception about what one actually thinks about as an > asset to working the program. For example, thinking aout drinking is bad > so I didn't think about it. Thinking about drinking is only a thought. I > try to be as clear as possible with myself about what I think. I want to > be as aware as possible about what I am really thinking, then, as far > as what I do in my behavior it is my choice and another matter. > One of the scariest things about the way AA'ers deal with desires and > thoughts is they truly believe that god not they are responsible. Has > anyone ever heard such things as, I am an alcoholic and drinking is what > I do but I haven't had a drink today and that is evidence of god working > in my life. Pass the hat, time to barf. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > I'd often heard this in AA meetings, and through most of my going to > AA it was true for me too - this is not a slogan, but an observation > that > is sometimes made in AA meetings: " Nowadays, with a little time sober, > the > only time I even think about drinking is when I'm in an AA meeting. " > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ebates.com. Earn up to 25% cash back for shopping online at 75 stores > like Borders, CDNow and Beyond.com. Refer a friend and earn even more! > http://clickhere./click/690 > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 1999 Report Share Posted August 15, 1999 No I haven't, but I have a friend who is in AA and also sells Amway. My sister too is in Amway, she & her fiance are doing very well (GO DIAMOND!). I e-mailed her some cautionary URLs concerning Amway & multi-level marketing schemes, but she pooh-poohed them away... she told me to focus on the positive. (sound familiar?) Actually Amway also has filled in the need for socialization that humans have.. I see some of the literature they're reading laying around their house. Motivational, inspirational, mass-market spiritual stuff. But you know, I do use Amway laundry detergent, and my whites are so very bright... I only buy the stuff to subsidise my sister & her boyfriend who are wonderful people. My father is a very good schmoozer, and Amway had tried to suck him in many times. Various Amway members would schedule a business meeting with him and try to get him into the " business " without telling him what the " business " was... But it was obvious by the second sentence. But you know, they've come up with front names for the Amway business, so when someone suspects by the second sentence that they're being lured into an MLM scheme and are confronted with a point-blank question " Is this Amway " they can say " noooooooo this is Quixtar " . Apple > I always thought AA seemed just like an Amway meeting. > Ever been to one of those? Rebekah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 1999 Report Share Posted August 15, 1999 >... I made up another one for me. WWCSD(what would Carl >Sagan do?) I'm going to reread THE DEMON HAUNTED WORLD by SAGAN again >and hopefully stave off a full blown relapse into AA's delusional mindset. > Hi , I found the 'paranormal debunking' literature to be somewhat helpful in shaking off the AA demons. Subscribed to 'Skeptical Inquirer.' Read books on faith healing, e. g. 'The Faith Healers' by Randi, and 'Healing' by Nolen. The sheer variety and commonness of paranormal & alternative-medicine frauds and delusions is mindboggling. Some familiarity with this stuff makes AA seem less exceptional. -- wally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 A Scot asks: What is Armway? Re: those aa thoughts >No I haven't, but I have a friend who is in AA and also sells Amway. My >sister too is in Amway, she & her fiance are doing very well (GO >DIAMOND!). I e-mailed her some cautionary URLs concerning Amway & >multi-level marketing schemes, but she pooh-poohed them away... she >told me to focus on the positive. (sound familiar?) Actually Amway >also has filled in the need for socialization that humans have.. I see >some of the literature they're reading laying around their house. >Motivational, inspirational, mass-market spiritual stuff. > >But you know, I do use Amway laundry detergent, and my whites are so >very bright... I only buy the stuff to subsidise my sister & her >boyfriend who are wonderful people. My father is a very good >schmoozer, and Amway had tried to suck him in many times. Various Amway >members would schedule a business meeting with him and try to get him >into the " business " without telling him what the " business " was... But >it was obvious by the second sentence. But you know, they've come up >with front names for the Amway business, so when someone suspects by >the second sentence that they're being lured into an MLM scheme and are >confronted with a point-blank question " Is this Amway " they can say > " noooooooo this is Quixtar " . >Apple > >> I always thought AA seemed just like an Amway meeting. >> Ever been to one of those? Rebekah > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, >NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today! >http://clickhere./click/606 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 A Scot asks: What is Armway? Re: those aa thoughts >No I haven't, but I have a friend who is in AA and also sells Amway. My >sister too is in Amway, she & her fiance are doing very well (GO >DIAMOND!). I e-mailed her some cautionary URLs concerning Amway & >multi-level marketing schemes, but she pooh-poohed them away... she >told me to focus on the positive. (sound familiar?) Actually Amway >also has filled in the need for socialization that humans have.. I see >some of the literature they're reading laying around their house. >Motivational, inspirational, mass-market spiritual stuff. > >But you know, I do use Amway laundry detergent, and my whites are so >very bright... I only buy the stuff to subsidise my sister & her >boyfriend who are wonderful people. My father is a very good >schmoozer, and Amway had tried to suck him in many times. Various Amway >members would schedule a business meeting with him and try to get him >into the " business " without telling him what the " business " was... But >it was obvious by the second sentence. But you know, they've come up >with front names for the Amway business, so when someone suspects by >the second sentence that they're being lured into an MLM scheme and are >confronted with a point-blank question " Is this Amway " they can say > " noooooooo this is Quixtar " . >Apple > >> I always thought AA seemed just like an Amway meeting. >> Ever been to one of those? Rebekah > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, >NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today! >http://clickhere./click/606 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 A Scot asks: What is Armway? Re: those aa thoughts >No I haven't, but I have a friend who is in AA and also sells Amway. My >sister too is in Amway, she & her fiance are doing very well (GO >DIAMOND!). I e-mailed her some cautionary URLs concerning Amway & >multi-level marketing schemes, but she pooh-poohed them away... she >told me to focus on the positive. (sound familiar?) Actually Amway >also has filled in the need for socialization that humans have.. I see >some of the literature they're reading laying around their house. >Motivational, inspirational, mass-market spiritual stuff. > >But you know, I do use Amway laundry detergent, and my whites are so >very bright... I only buy the stuff to subsidise my sister & her >boyfriend who are wonderful people. My father is a very good >schmoozer, and Amway had tried to suck him in many times. Various Amway >members would schedule a business meeting with him and try to get him >into the " business " without telling him what the " business " was... But >it was obvious by the second sentence. But you know, they've come up >with front names for the Amway business, so when someone suspects by >the second sentence that they're being lured into an MLM scheme and are >confronted with a point-blank question " Is this Amway " they can say > " noooooooo this is Quixtar " . >Apple > >> I always thought AA seemed just like an Amway meeting. >> Ever been to one of those? Rebekah > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, >NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today! >http://clickhere./click/606 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 That really strikes a chord with me! I has gone to meetings here and there in my drinking and drugging career and my first impression was they were really weird. I didn't stick around until I was desperate. Desperation doesn't lay a good groundwork for making decisions. In the meetings they talked about desperation like it was a good thing! Anyone can change their perception of " normal " . Growing up in a whacked out family with physical/emotional abuse or being in a violent relationship can also seem " normal " if you don't know another way. I had an immense amount of shame and guilt when I started trying to leave, but luckily I had already been through that with my family and could see it for what it was. When I finally got away from my family, the world began to seem like a completely different place. My best friend in AA was a rage-aholic. I always thought I deserved her anger and lousy treatment....thought it was my fault.....looked for my part in it just like I was taught in AA. I have worked very hard to improve my self-concept and change what I think I deserve. The times I have gone back to meetings, I was shocked to find myself surrounded by some very damaged people living some very sick and unhealthy lives. Why would I want to spend so much time in the company of these people? I prefer to seek out the company of people who I consider to be functional and healthy. I can be supportive and friendly to people I meet who are committed to changing their lives, but I no longer feel the need to rescue them. That's the big difference. Growing up, our house was filled with alcoholics, mental patients, and assorted others my mother was trying to " save " with her particular brand of christian ideals and whacked-out philosophy of suffering for others. It's no wonder I ended up in AA. Jeez...I've spent a majority of my life in the noble " sufferng club " . I resign! Rebekah ---------- >From: rashley@... >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Subject: Re: those aa thoughts >Date: Mon, Aug 16, 1999, 3:17 AM > >Hello , > >Yes that is it. Our behavior with drinking took us to a bad place and >we became weak of mind and indecisive so we accepted help from a >resourse contaminated with mumbo jumbo rituals of made up mystical >connections. We were friggin desperate and that is a common precusor to >AA entry. The rest becomes history unless we get a hold of our senses. >Senses which led us to seek a solution to our alcohol dependence in the >first place. Ironic that out our own good sense led us to AA then as we >learned more the same good sense led us back to our own thinking. > > > > >> Hi , >> It blows my mind sometimes when I think of all the ritualized delusion >> we practiced. Their nonstop magical thinking and preoccupation with a >> Tzar of the universe who is at their beck and call to procure parking >> spaces and supplying. rational thoughts to a mind that is constantly >> immersed in fantasy. >> >> I went to the movies with a very good AA friend, and told him of my >born >> again moderate drinker status. He was a friend and didn't bury me >under >> a mound of slogans and platitudes. He was very cool. Concerned but >> respectful. What gave me the creeps is that we ran into 2 other AA's >> outside the multiplex. Inside the the theater the only decent seats >> available were next to 2 completely different AA's, a couple of real >> water walkers. >> >> So here I am watching a movie about ghosts(Sixth Sense) sandwiched in >> between 3 pod people. What a magical thinking opportunity. I have >> journals filled with the shit. You know that Christian slogan >WWJD(what >> would Jesus do?) I made up another one for me. WWCSD(what would Carl >> Sagan do?) I'm going to reread THE DEMON HAUNTED WORLD by SAGAN again >> and hopefully stave off a full blown relapse into AA's delusional >mindset. >> >> >> wrote: >> > >> > I too have heard similar statements and would have to say they are >bare >> > arsed lies based on denial of ones own thoughts. A result right out >of >> > ritualized brainwashing. It is follows along the lines of the same >AA >> > mysticism that god is the one who has removed the obsession rather >than >> > the individaul human being dealing with their own desire to drink. >AA >> > flat out denies that being responsible to deal with ones own desire >is >> > possible. So the logic in AA is that the desire comes from the >> > individual but the individaul is not responsible for the desire. So >> > denial of ones real thoughts plays right into this. The AA'ers think >> > about drinking it just sounds good in meetings to say they don't; >and >> > many do very well believe this. This also points to how the program >> > cultivates self deception about what one actually thinks about as an >> > asset to working the program. For example, thinking aout drinking >is bad >> > so I didn't think about it. Thinking about drinking is only a >thought. I >> > try to be as clear as possible with myself about what I think. I >want to >> > be as aware as possible about what I am really thinking, then, as >far >> > as what I do in my behavior it is my choice and another matter. >> > One of the scariest things about the way AA'ers deal with desires >and >> > thoughts is they truly believe that god not they are responsible. >Has >> > anyone ever heard such things as, I am an alcoholic and drinking is >what >> > I do but I haven't had a drink today and that is evidence of god >working >> > in my life. Pass the hat, time to barf. >> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > I'd often heard this in AA meetings, and through most of my going to >> > AA it was true for me too - this is not a slogan, but an observation >> > that >> > is sometimes made in AA meetings: " Nowadays, with a little time >sober, >> > the >> > only time I even think about drinking is when I'm in an AA meeting. " >> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Click here for 4 FREE TRIAL ISSUES of Sports Illustrated! If you're >satisfied, your subscription will continue at the guaranteed lowest rate >of $.75 an issue for 52 issues! http://clickhere./click/678 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 Apple, I think the hardest part isn't the fear of regression into the AA modality. A couple of months of 12 Step Free has created a viable antibody in me to the AA Flu. What I find most perplexing is trying to talk with AA people who are unaware of my spiritual debunking. I have little in common with them anymore and find myself at a loss as to what to say. Also I find myself feeling nervous the way one does when one has a lot of people coughing around them. I just don't want to catch what they've got. I am convinced that the 12 Steps depress the immune systems of unbelievers. AppleDTP@... wrote: > > Wow , glad you survived. I know how easy it could be to get swayed > back, but I also know how important it is that there are people alive, > living well and rejecting it rationally. I tried to find such folks > years ago, and couldn't. Do the water walkers know who you are and what > you've done? Do they know that you are the child of satan now? > Apple > > > Hi , > > It blows my mind sometimes when I think of all the ritualized delusion > > we practiced. Their nonstop magical thinking and preoccupation with a > > Tzar of the universe who is at their beck and call to procure parking > > spaces and supplying. rational thoughts to a mind that is constantly > > immersed in fantasy. > > > > I went to the movies with a very good AA friend, and told him of my > born > > again moderate drinker status. He was a friend and didn't bury me > under > > a mound of slogans and platitudes. He was very cool. Concerned but > > respectful. What gave me the creeps is that we ran into 2 other AA's > > outside the multiplex. Inside the the theater the only decent seats > > available were next to 2 completely different AA's, a couple of real > > water walkers. > > > > So here I am watching a movie about ghosts(Sixth Sense) sandwiched in > > between 3 pod people. What a magical thinking opportunity. I have > > journals filled with the shit. You know that Christian slogan > WWJD(what > > would Jesus do?) I made up another one for me. WWCSD(what would Carl > > Sagan do?) I'm going to reread THE DEMON HAUNTED WORLD by SAGAN again > > and hopefully stave off a full blown relapse into AA's delusional > mindset. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, > NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today! > http://clickhere./click/606 > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 Apple, I think the hardest part isn't the fear of regression into the AA modality. A couple of months of 12 Step Free has created a viable antibody in me to the AA Flu. What I find most perplexing is trying to talk with AA people who are unaware of my spiritual debunking. I have little in common with them anymore and find myself at a loss as to what to say. Also I find myself feeling nervous the way one does when one has a lot of people coughing around them. I just don't want to catch what they've got. I am convinced that the 12 Steps depress the immune systems of unbelievers. AppleDTP@... wrote: > > Wow , glad you survived. I know how easy it could be to get swayed > back, but I also know how important it is that there are people alive, > living well and rejecting it rationally. I tried to find such folks > years ago, and couldn't. Do the water walkers know who you are and what > you've done? Do they know that you are the child of satan now? > Apple > > > Hi , > > It blows my mind sometimes when I think of all the ritualized delusion > > we practiced. Their nonstop magical thinking and preoccupation with a > > Tzar of the universe who is at their beck and call to procure parking > > spaces and supplying. rational thoughts to a mind that is constantly > > immersed in fantasy. > > > > I went to the movies with a very good AA friend, and told him of my > born > > again moderate drinker status. He was a friend and didn't bury me > under > > a mound of slogans and platitudes. He was very cool. Concerned but > > respectful. What gave me the creeps is that we ran into 2 other AA's > > outside the multiplex. Inside the the theater the only decent seats > > available were next to 2 completely different AA's, a couple of real > > water walkers. > > > > So here I am watching a movie about ghosts(Sixth Sense) sandwiched in > > between 3 pod people. What a magical thinking opportunity. I have > > journals filled with the shit. You know that Christian slogan > WWJD(what > > would Jesus do?) I made up another one for me. WWCSD(what would Carl > > Sagan do?) I'm going to reread THE DEMON HAUNTED WORLD by SAGAN again > > and hopefully stave off a full blown relapse into AA's delusional > mindset. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, > NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today! > http://clickhere./click/606 > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 Apple, I think the hardest part isn't the fear of regression into the AA modality. A couple of months of 12 Step Free has created a viable antibody in me to the AA Flu. What I find most perplexing is trying to talk with AA people who are unaware of my spiritual debunking. I have little in common with them anymore and find myself at a loss as to what to say. Also I find myself feeling nervous the way one does when one has a lot of people coughing around them. I just don't want to catch what they've got. I am convinced that the 12 Steps depress the immune systems of unbelievers. AppleDTP@... wrote: > > Wow , glad you survived. I know how easy it could be to get swayed > back, but I also know how important it is that there are people alive, > living well and rejecting it rationally. I tried to find such folks > years ago, and couldn't. Do the water walkers know who you are and what > you've done? Do they know that you are the child of satan now? > Apple > > > Hi , > > It blows my mind sometimes when I think of all the ritualized delusion > > we practiced. Their nonstop magical thinking and preoccupation with a > > Tzar of the universe who is at their beck and call to procure parking > > spaces and supplying. rational thoughts to a mind that is constantly > > immersed in fantasy. > > > > I went to the movies with a very good AA friend, and told him of my > born > > again moderate drinker status. He was a friend and didn't bury me > under > > a mound of slogans and platitudes. He was very cool. Concerned but > > respectful. What gave me the creeps is that we ran into 2 other AA's > > outside the multiplex. Inside the the theater the only decent seats > > available were next to 2 completely different AA's, a couple of real > > water walkers. > > > > So here I am watching a movie about ghosts(Sixth Sense) sandwiched in > > between 3 pod people. What a magical thinking opportunity. I have > > journals filled with the shit. You know that Christian slogan > WWJD(what > > would Jesus do?) I made up another one for me. WWCSD(what would Carl > > Sagan do?) I'm going to reread THE DEMON HAUNTED WORLD by SAGAN again > > and hopefully stave off a full blown relapse into AA's delusional > mindset. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, > NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today! > http://clickhere./click/606 > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 Uhoh. Amway, here they come. Downlines up the ying yang. Watch out, Scotland!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 Uhoh. Amway, here they come. Downlines up the ying yang. Watch out, Scotland!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 Uhoh. Amway, here they come. Downlines up the ying yang. Watch out, Scotland!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 THANKS WALLY " Wally T. " wrote: > > > > >... I made up another one for me. WWCSD(what would Carl > >Sagan do?) I'm going to reread THE DEMON HAUNTED WORLD by SAGAN again > >and hopefully stave off a full blown relapse into AA's delusional mindset. > > > > Hi , > > I found the 'paranormal debunking' literature to be somewhat helpful in > shaking off the AA demons. Subscribed to 'Skeptical Inquirer.' Read books on > faith healing, e. g. 'The Faith Healers' by Randi, and 'Healing' by > Nolen. > > The sheer variety and commonness of paranormal & alternative-medicine frauds > and delusions is mindboggling. Some familiarity with this stuff makes AA > seem less exceptional. > > -- wally > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Click here for 4 FREE TRIAL ISSUES of Sports Illustrated! If you're > satisfied, your subscription will continue at the guaranteed lowest rate > of $.75 an issue for 52 issues! http://clickhere./click/678 > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 At 12:12 PM 8/16/1999 +0100, Krakatoa wrote: >A Scot asks: > >What is Armway? It's one of the oldest (? I first heard of it in early 1970's) and largest (as far as I know) " Multi-Level Marketing " companies. It's almost, but not quite, like a pyramid scam (there's actual product - laundry detergent, home cleaning pruoducts and such, but what they really try to sell is the idea of selling the Amway idea). Type Amway at yahoo.com and you'll see more than you wanted to know... ----- <http://listen.to/benbradley> New and Improved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 At 12:12 PM 8/16/1999 +0100, Krakatoa wrote: >A Scot asks: > >What is Armway? It's one of the oldest (? I first heard of it in early 1970's) and largest (as far as I know) " Multi-Level Marketing " companies. It's almost, but not quite, like a pyramid scam (there's actual product - laundry detergent, home cleaning pruoducts and such, but what they really try to sell is the idea of selling the Amway idea). Type Amway at yahoo.com and you'll see more than you wanted to know... ----- <http://listen.to/benbradley> New and Improved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.