Re: steps AA's moral inventory is a crock.

[Guest guest]

I've heard that introverted people are overstimulated or stressed out or

have their energy drained by crowds, while extroverted people are energized

by them. I know that sometimes solitude is better than chocolate... but I'm

not getting rid of my chocolate any time soon. Why not have both?

Judith

> I think most of our accomplishments are done alone, not in groups. That's

not to say I don't need people. After a period of isolation it feels good

to get out amongst the folks again. But then that's part of the idea of

the isolation to begin with.>

_______________________________________________________

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------------------------------------------------------------------------

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- Simplifying group communications

[Guest guest]

I've heard that introverted people are overstimulated or stressed out or

have their energy drained by crowds, while extroverted people are energized

by them. I know that sometimes solitude is better than chocolate... but I'm

not getting rid of my chocolate any time soon. Why not have both?

Judith

> I think most of our accomplishments are done alone, not in groups. That's

not to say I don't need people. After a period of isolation it feels good

to get out amongst the folks again. But then that's part of the idea of

the isolation to begin with.>

_______________________________________________________

Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

- Simplifying group communications

[Guest guest]

I've heard that introverted people are overstimulated or stressed out or

have their energy drained by crowds, while extroverted people are energized

by them. I know that sometimes solitude is better than chocolate... but I'm

not getting rid of my chocolate any time soon. Why not have both?

Judith

> I think most of our accomplishments are done alone, not in groups. That's

not to say I don't need people. After a period of isolation it feels good

to get out amongst the folks again. But then that's part of the idea of

the isolation to begin with.>

_______________________________________________________

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------------------------------------------------------------------------

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- Simplifying group communications

[Guest guest]

I was remembering in my first rehab when they actually gave us a WORKBOOK to

do the fearless moral inventory. It was sort of a multiple choice, then essay

type thing, then we would bring it to group and exchange it with the person

sitting next to us. Then we all would sit for a while a demoralize and

unvalidate each others true feeling and tell each other what we really meant

, and later make fun of people spelling. Very healthy

Jen

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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- Simplifying group communications

[Guest guest]

I was remembering in my first rehab when they actually gave us a WORKBOOK to

do the fearless moral inventory. It was sort of a multiple choice, then essay

type thing, then we would bring it to group and exchange it with the person

sitting next to us. Then we all would sit for a while a demoralize and

unvalidate each others true feeling and tell each other what we really meant

, and later make fun of people spelling. Very healthy

Jen

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

- Simplifying group communications

[Guest guest]

I agree. I left America after leaving AA and lived in the Japanese

country side where I didn't even understand a word anyone was saying,

watch TV ,or even read a newspaper for a long, long time. The isolation

or pleasurable seclusion was the basis for some significant discoveries

and breakthroughs in my own personal development. It also confirmed that

I was out of the group loop. Now if I could just quit talking to myself

in public I would appear pretty normal.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

from: " Rebekah "

You know that " isolation " concept that is bantered

about in meetings....if you isolate and listen to your own thoughts

really

bad things are supposed to happen? I decided to take that to an extreme.

My

creativity just took off.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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- Simplifying group communications

[Guest guest]

> Anybody here ever take the Meyers-Briggs?

> It's a sort of personality inventory...a lot more beneficial to me than

the AA type...focussing on faults. I am an INFP...and I do get a lot of

energy from being alone. >

I took one of those maybe 10 years ago; I remember that I'm an I, not sure

about the rest. I like being around people but not crowds of strangers so

much. Although I can do it for a good reason.

> That whole moral inventory thing is such poison to me. When I stopped

drinking, I needed more than anything to get an ego.>

> I had to have a good laugh at myself yesterday. ... I guess I am human

all along. I am my own worst critic on some days. It's a lot more

interesting to find the humor in this than to find some hidden moral or

psychological reason. >

I'm so much more pleasant to be around when I treat myself the way I'd like

to be treated.

> I also made a contract with myself to tie up and gag " the critic " for

the remainder of the term in my writing class. I'm gonna write whatever I

want, and actually do a public reading. This should be a real fun month. An

oppurtunity to write and read whatever outrageous thing that comes to

me....sans censor!!! I am just in a evil and cynical mood today. >

Somehow I just don't think Bill W. had this in mind as one of the evil

consequences of leaving AA (stop going to meetings and you'll write in an

original and fresh style!) Seriously, that sounds like fun. If it helps

you deal with an evil and cynical mood, and you get credit for it, then all

the better

>I also had an old friend from AA thats been living across country call me

up today. I can't wait to see the worried and concerned look on her face

when she finds out I haven't been to a meeting in over 5 years.

This has the potential to be really fun. She is also into " A Course in

Miracles " and I notice she didn't even think about inviting me. The whole

" goodness and light " thing just annoys me. I feel so " BAD " today I can

hardly stand it. I feel like I am playing " Eddie Haskell " in an old Leave it

to Beaver re-run. >

gee mrs cleaver thats a lovely dress....

Judith

_______________________________________________________

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------------------------------------------------------------------------

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- Simplifying group communications

[Guest guest]

> Anybody here ever take the Meyers-Briggs?

> It's a sort of personality inventory...a lot more beneficial to me than

the AA type...focussing on faults. I am an INFP...and I do get a lot of

energy from being alone. >

I took one of those maybe 10 years ago; I remember that I'm an I, not sure

about the rest. I like being around people but not crowds of strangers so

much. Although I can do it for a good reason.

> That whole moral inventory thing is such poison to me. When I stopped

drinking, I needed more than anything to get an ego.>

> I had to have a good laugh at myself yesterday. ... I guess I am human

all along. I am my own worst critic on some days. It's a lot more

interesting to find the humor in this than to find some hidden moral or

psychological reason. >

I'm so much more pleasant to be around when I treat myself the way I'd like

to be treated.

> I also made a contract with myself to tie up and gag " the critic " for

the remainder of the term in my writing class. I'm gonna write whatever I

want, and actually do a public reading. This should be a real fun month. An

oppurtunity to write and read whatever outrageous thing that comes to

me....sans censor!!! I am just in a evil and cynical mood today. >

Somehow I just don't think Bill W. had this in mind as one of the evil

consequences of leaving AA (stop going to meetings and you'll write in an

original and fresh style!) Seriously, that sounds like fun. If it helps

you deal with an evil and cynical mood, and you get credit for it, then all

the better

>I also had an old friend from AA thats been living across country call me

up today. I can't wait to see the worried and concerned look on her face

when she finds out I haven't been to a meeting in over 5 years.

This has the potential to be really fun. She is also into " A Course in

Miracles " and I notice she didn't even think about inviting me. The whole

" goodness and light " thing just annoys me. I feel so " BAD " today I can

hardly stand it. I feel like I am playing " Eddie Haskell " in an old Leave it

to Beaver re-run. >

gee mrs cleaver thats a lovely dress....

Judith

_______________________________________________________

Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

- Simplifying group communications

[Guest guest]

> Anybody here ever take the Meyers-Briggs?

> It's a sort of personality inventory...a lot more beneficial to me than

the AA type...focussing on faults. I am an INFP...and I do get a lot of

energy from being alone. >

I took one of those maybe 10 years ago; I remember that I'm an I, not sure

about the rest. I like being around people but not crowds of strangers so

much. Although I can do it for a good reason.

> That whole moral inventory thing is such poison to me. When I stopped

drinking, I needed more than anything to get an ego.>

> I had to have a good laugh at myself yesterday. ... I guess I am human

all along. I am my own worst critic on some days. It's a lot more

interesting to find the humor in this than to find some hidden moral or

psychological reason. >

I'm so much more pleasant to be around when I treat myself the way I'd like

to be treated.

> I also made a contract with myself to tie up and gag " the critic " for

the remainder of the term in my writing class. I'm gonna write whatever I

want, and actually do a public reading. This should be a real fun month. An

oppurtunity to write and read whatever outrageous thing that comes to

me....sans censor!!! I am just in a evil and cynical mood today. >

Somehow I just don't think Bill W. had this in mind as one of the evil

consequences of leaving AA (stop going to meetings and you'll write in an

original and fresh style!) Seriously, that sounds like fun. If it helps

you deal with an evil and cynical mood, and you get credit for it, then all

the better

>I also had an old friend from AA thats been living across country call me

up today. I can't wait to see the worried and concerned look on her face

when she finds out I haven't been to a meeting in over 5 years.

This has the potential to be really fun. She is also into " A Course in

Miracles " and I notice she didn't even think about inviting me. The whole

" goodness and light " thing just annoys me. I feel so " BAD " today I can

hardly stand it. I feel like I am playing " Eddie Haskell " in an old Leave it

to Beaver re-run. >

gee mrs cleaver thats a lovely dress....

Judith

_______________________________________________________

Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

- Simplifying group communications

[Guest guest]

Hi , Rebekah and List;

Isolation is just something I do on occasion. And , I get

caught talking to myself in the shop all the time. Here's a pearl a

friend's mother threw on me one time.

It's ok to talk to yourself and it's ok to answer yourself, but you are

in trouble if you start saying Huh? "

I think most of our accomplishments are done alone, not in groups.

That's not to say I don't need people. After a period of isolation it

feels good to get out amongst the folks again. But then that's part

of the idea of the isolation to begin with.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

- Simplifying group communications

[Guest guest]

Hi , Rebekah and List;

Isolation is just something I do on occasion. And , I get

caught talking to myself in the shop all the time. Here's a pearl a

friend's mother threw on me one time.

It's ok to talk to yourself and it's ok to answer yourself, but you are

in trouble if you start saying Huh? "

I think most of our accomplishments are done alone, not in groups.

That's not to say I don't need people. After a period of isolation it

feels good to get out amongst the folks again. But then that's part

of the idea of the isolation to begin with.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

- Simplifying group communications

[Guest guest]

I agree, never try isolation without an abundant supply of chocolate on hand.

Anybody here ever take the Meyers-Briggs?

It's a sort of personality inventory...a lot more beneficial to me than the AA type...focussing on faults. I am an INFP...and I do get a lot of energy from

being alone.

That whole moral inventory thing is such poison to me. When I stopped drinking, I needed more than anything to get an ego.

I had to have a good laugh at myself yesterday. I have spent the last few days frantically trying to find the disks for a manuscript I am helping to get published for the Anthropology department....was convinced I was well on the way to screwing up the whole project....only to be reminded I gave the disks back to a faculty member last week. I guess I am human all along. I am my own worst critic on some days. It's a lot more interesting to find the humor in this than to find some hidden moral or psychological reason.

I also made a contract with myself to tie up and gag " the critic " for the remainder of the term in my writing class.

I'm gonna write whatever I want, and actually do a public reading. This should be a real fun month. An oppurtunity to write and read whatever outrageous thing that comes to me....sans censor!!! I am just in a evil and cynical mood today. I also had an old friend from AA thats been living across country call me up today. I can't wait to see the worried and concerned look on her face when she finds out I haven't been to a meeting in over 5 years.

This has the potential to be really fun. She is also into " A Course in Miracles " and I notice she didn't even think about inviting me. The whole " goodness and light " thing just annoys me. I feel so " BAD " today

I can hardly stand it. I feel like I am playing " Eddie Haskell " in an old Leave it to Beaver re-run. Rebekah

----------

To: 12-step-freeegroups

Subject: Re: steps AA's moral inventory is a crock.

Date: Tue, Jul 20, 1999, 9:00 AM

I've heard that introverted people are overstimulated or stressed out or

have their energy drained by crowds, while extroverted people are energized

by them. I know that sometimes solitude is better than chocolate... but I'm

not getting rid of my chocolate any time soon. Why not have both?

Judith

> I think most of our accomplishments are done alone, not in groups. That's

not to say I don't need people. After a period of isolation it feels good

to get out amongst the folks again. But then that's part of the idea of

the isolation to begin with.>

_______________________________________________________

Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/

Click Here!

eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free </group/12-step-free>

www. <> - Simplifying group communications

___________=_ADZZXXH

eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

www. - Simplifying group communications

[Guest guest]

I agree, never try isolation without an abundant supply of chocolate on hand.

Anybody here ever take the Meyers-Briggs?

It's a sort of personality inventory...a lot more beneficial to me than the AA type...focussing on faults. I am an INFP...and I do get a lot of energy from

being alone.

That whole moral inventory thing is such poison to me. When I stopped drinking, I needed more than anything to get an ego.

I had to have a good laugh at myself yesterday. I have spent the last few days frantically trying to find the disks for a manuscript I am helping to get published for the Anthropology department....was convinced I was well on the way to screwing up the whole project....only to be reminded I gave the disks back to a faculty member last week. I guess I am human all along. I am my own worst critic on some days. It's a lot more interesting to find the humor in this than to find some hidden moral or psychological reason.

I also made a contract with myself to tie up and gag " the critic " for the remainder of the term in my writing class.

I'm gonna write whatever I want, and actually do a public reading. This should be a real fun month. An oppurtunity to write and read whatever outrageous thing that comes to me....sans censor!!! I am just in a evil and cynical mood today. I also had an old friend from AA thats been living across country call me up today. I can't wait to see the worried and concerned look on her face when she finds out I haven't been to a meeting in over 5 years.

This has the potential to be really fun. She is also into " A Course in Miracles " and I notice she didn't even think about inviting me. The whole " goodness and light " thing just annoys me. I feel so " BAD " today

I can hardly stand it. I feel like I am playing " Eddie Haskell " in an old Leave it to Beaver re-run. Rebekah

----------

To: 12-step-freeegroups

Subject: Re: steps AA's moral inventory is a crock.

Date: Tue, Jul 20, 1999, 9:00 AM

I've heard that introverted people are overstimulated or stressed out or

have their energy drained by crowds, while extroverted people are energized

by them. I know that sometimes solitude is better than chocolate... but I'm

not getting rid of my chocolate any time soon. Why not have both?

Judith

> I think most of our accomplishments are done alone, not in groups. That's

not to say I don't need people. After a period of isolation it feels good

to get out amongst the folks again. But then that's part of the idea of

the isolation to begin with.>

_______________________________________________________

Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/

Click Here!

eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free </group/12-step-free>

www. <> - Simplifying group communications

___________=_ADZZXXH

eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

www. - Simplifying group communications

[Guest guest]

I agree, never try isolation without an abundant supply of chocolate on hand.

Anybody here ever take the Meyers-Briggs?

It's a sort of personality inventory...a lot more beneficial to me than the AA type...focussing on faults. I am an INFP...and I do get a lot of energy from

being alone.

That whole moral inventory thing is such poison to me. When I stopped drinking, I needed more than anything to get an ego.

I had to have a good laugh at myself yesterday. I have spent the last few days frantically trying to find the disks for a manuscript I am helping to get published for the Anthropology department....was convinced I was well on the way to screwing up the whole project....only to be reminded I gave the disks back to a faculty member last week. I guess I am human all along. I am my own worst critic on some days. It's a lot more interesting to find the humor in this than to find some hidden moral or psychological reason.

I also made a contract with myself to tie up and gag " the critic " for the remainder of the term in my writing class.

I'm gonna write whatever I want, and actually do a public reading. This should be a real fun month. An oppurtunity to write and read whatever outrageous thing that comes to me....sans censor!!! I am just in a evil and cynical mood today. I also had an old friend from AA thats been living across country call me up today. I can't wait to see the worried and concerned look on her face when she finds out I haven't been to a meeting in over 5 years.

This has the potential to be really fun. She is also into " A Course in Miracles " and I notice she didn't even think about inviting me. The whole " goodness and light " thing just annoys me. I feel so " BAD " today

I can hardly stand it. I feel like I am playing " Eddie Haskell " in an old Leave it to Beaver re-run. Rebekah

----------

To: 12-step-freeegroups

Subject: Re: steps AA's moral inventory is a crock.

Date: Tue, Jul 20, 1999, 9:00 AM

I've heard that introverted people are overstimulated or stressed out or

have their energy drained by crowds, while extroverted people are energized

by them. I know that sometimes solitude is better than chocolate... but I'm

not getting rid of my chocolate any time soon. Why not have both?

Judith

> I think most of our accomplishments are done alone, not in groups. That's

not to say I don't need people. After a period of isolation it feels good

to get out amongst the folks again. But then that's part of the idea of

the isolation to begin with.>

_______________________________________________________

Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/

Click Here!

eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free </group/12-step-free>

www. <> - Simplifying group communications

___________=_ADZZXXH

eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

www. - Simplifying group communications

[Guest guest]

Hey, it's a lot cheaper than having a cell phone! You can buy one of those toy phones and just walk around having conversations with all those voices up there. Nobody would even notice. Rebekah

----------

To: " 12-step-freeegroups " <12-step-freeegroups>

Subject: Re: steps AA's moral inventory is a crock.

Date: Tue, Jul 20, 1999, 4:38 AM

I agree. I left America after leaving AA and lived in the Japanese

country side where I didn't even understand a word anyone was saying,

watch TV ,or even read a newspaper for a long, long time. The isolation

or pleasurable seclusion was the basis for some significant discoveries

and breakthroughs in my own personal development. It also confirmed that

I was out of the group loop. Now if I could just quit talking to myself

in public I would appear pretty normal.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

from: " Rebekah "

You know that " isolation " concept that is bantered

about in meetings....if you isolate and listen to your own thoughts

really

bad things are supposed to happen? I decided to take that to an extreme.

My

creativity just took off.

Click Here!

eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free </group/12-step-free>

www. <> - Simplifying group communications

___________=_ADZZXXH

eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

www. - Simplifying group communications

[Guest guest]

It's a lot more fun spending time with people because you want to, not because you are afraid to be alone with yourself. I really enjoy people, but I am selective.

Rebekah

----------

To: 12-step-freeegroups

Subject: Re: steps AA's moral inventory is a crock.

Date: Tue, Jul 20, 1999, 9:46 AM

Hi , Rebekah and List;

Isolation is just something I do on occasion. And , I get

caught talking to myself in the shop all the time. Here's a pearl a

friend's mother threw on me one time.

It's ok to talk to yourself and it's ok to answer yourself, but you are

in trouble if you start saying Huh? "

I think most of our accomplishments are done alone, not in groups.

That's not to say I don't need people. After a period of isolation it

feels good to get out amongst the folks again. But then that's part

of the idea of the isolation to begin with.

Click Here!

eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free </group/12-step-free>

www. <> - Simplifying group communications

___________=_ADZZXXH

eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

www. - Simplifying group communications

[Guest guest]

It's a lot more fun spending time with people because you want to, not because you are afraid to be alone with yourself. I really enjoy people, but I am selective.

Rebekah

----------

To: 12-step-freeegroups

Subject: Re: steps AA's moral inventory is a crock.

Date: Tue, Jul 20, 1999, 9:46 AM

Hi , Rebekah and List;

Isolation is just something I do on occasion. And , I get

caught talking to myself in the shop all the time. Here's a pearl a

friend's mother threw on me one time.

It's ok to talk to yourself and it's ok to answer yourself, but you are

in trouble if you start saying Huh? "

I think most of our accomplishments are done alone, not in groups.

That's not to say I don't need people. After a period of isolation it

feels good to get out amongst the folks again. But then that's part

of the idea of the isolation to begin with.

Click Here!

eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free </group/12-step-free>

www. <> - Simplifying group communications

___________=_ADZZXXH

eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

www. - Simplifying group communications

[Guest guest]

The way I've heard it is that extroverts draw their energy from other

people, introverts draw their energy from within, or from themselves.

I score about equally on the introvert/extrovert scale of the Meyers

Briggs Test and I can honestly say that sometimes it works one way for

me, sometimes the other. Seems to me that each of us needs both

solitude and contact with others, though proportions may differ by the

individual.

wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6111

> I've heard that introverted people are overstimulated or stressed out

or

> have their energy drained by crowds, while extroverted people are

energized

> by them. I know that sometimes solitude is better than chocolate...

but I'm

> not getting rid of my chocolate any time soon. Why not have both?

>

> Judith

>

>

>

>

> > I think most of our accomplishments are done alone, not in groups.

That's

> not to say I don't need people. After a period of isolation it

feels good

> to get out amongst the folks again. But then that's part of the

idea of

> the isolation to begin with.>

>

>

>

>

> _______________________________________________________

> Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/

>

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[Guest guest]

Judith,

You are so right about introverted people. After I quit drinking, I

eventually realized that much of the drinking was to help me be a social

butterfly. In our culture, the extroverted people are the ones who are

" OK " ; us introverted ones have some sort of psychological problems. I don't

force myself to go to every event or social function or try to stay busy,

busy, busy anymore. I love my time alone, I feel drained if I am out at a

social event too long. My mouth starts hurting from going hour after hour

with a social smile on my face. I get frustrated when I'm talking to

someone and we get interrupted over and over. And usually the person I'm

talking to is looking all over the place and making sure he/she responds to

all the interruptions which means I'm usually saying something and no one is

listening or the other one never finishes a sentence. I really don't like

small talk. Drinking helped me get over my basic introverted nature. I

prefer my time alone and am comfortable enough now that I know instinctively

that I need to get out with other people for a spell. This is part of what

being true to myself is. Shy people - unite!!!

Jan

Re: steps AA's moral inventory is a crock.

>I've heard that introverted people are overstimulated or stressed out or

>have their energy drained by crowds, while extroverted people are energized

>by them. I know that sometimes solitude is better than chocolate... but

I'm

>not getting rid of my chocolate any time soon. Why not have both?

>

>Judith

>

>

>

>

>> I think most of our accomplishments are done alone, not in groups.

That's

>not to say I don't need people. After a period of isolation it feels good

>to get out amongst the folks again. But then that's part of the idea of

>the isolation to begin with.>

>

>

>

>

>_______________________________________________________

>Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online.

>Start with up to 150 Points for joining!

>http://clickhere./click/475

>

>

>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Judith,

You are so right about introverted people. After I quit drinking, I

eventually realized that much of the drinking was to help me be a social

butterfly. In our culture, the extroverted people are the ones who are

" OK " ; us introverted ones have some sort of psychological problems. I don't

force myself to go to every event or social function or try to stay busy,

busy, busy anymore. I love my time alone, I feel drained if I am out at a

social event too long. My mouth starts hurting from going hour after hour

with a social smile on my face. I get frustrated when I'm talking to

someone and we get interrupted over and over. And usually the person I'm

talking to is looking all over the place and making sure he/she responds to

all the interruptions which means I'm usually saying something and no one is

listening or the other one never finishes a sentence. I really don't like

small talk. Drinking helped me get over my basic introverted nature. I

prefer my time alone and am comfortable enough now that I know instinctively

that I need to get out with other people for a spell. This is part of what

being true to myself is. Shy people - unite!!!

Jan

Re: steps AA's moral inventory is a crock.

>I've heard that introverted people are overstimulated or stressed out or

>have their energy drained by crowds, while extroverted people are energized

>by them. I know that sometimes solitude is better than chocolate... but

I'm

>not getting rid of my chocolate any time soon. Why not have both?

>

>Judith

>

>

>

>

>> I think most of our accomplishments are done alone, not in groups.

That's

>not to say I don't need people. After a period of isolation it feels good

>to get out amongst the folks again. But then that's part of the idea of

>the isolation to begin with.>

>

>

>

>

>_______________________________________________________

>Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/

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[Guest guest]

Judith,

You are so right about introverted people. After I quit drinking, I

eventually realized that much of the drinking was to help me be a social

butterfly. In our culture, the extroverted people are the ones who are

" OK " ; us introverted ones have some sort of psychological problems. I don't

force myself to go to every event or social function or try to stay busy,

busy, busy anymore. I love my time alone, I feel drained if I am out at a

social event too long. My mouth starts hurting from going hour after hour

with a social smile on my face. I get frustrated when I'm talking to

someone and we get interrupted over and over. And usually the person I'm

talking to is looking all over the place and making sure he/she responds to

all the interruptions which means I'm usually saying something and no one is

listening or the other one never finishes a sentence. I really don't like

small talk. Drinking helped me get over my basic introverted nature. I

prefer my time alone and am comfortable enough now that I know instinctively

that I need to get out with other people for a spell. This is part of what

being true to myself is. Shy people - unite!!!

Jan

Re: steps AA's moral inventory is a crock.

>I've heard that introverted people are overstimulated or stressed out or

>have their energy drained by crowds, while extroverted people are energized

>by them. I know that sometimes solitude is better than chocolate... but

I'm

>not getting rid of my chocolate any time soon. Why not have both?

>

>Judith

>

>

>

>

>> I think most of our accomplishments are done alone, not in groups.

That's

>not to say I don't need people. After a period of isolation it feels good

>to get out amongst the folks again. But then that's part of the idea of

>the isolation to begin with.>

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Hey ,

I thought as it is taught in AA that staying close to the center of the

herd was where the whiners, oops winners are. Man maybe they meant

weiners and life is a picnic. I dunno I goota go talk to meself some

moe. Huh. what..BAA. BAA, BAAAAA ,

wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6109

> Hi , Rebekah and List;

>

> Isolation is just something I do on occasion. And , I get

> caught talking to myself in the shop all the time. Here's a pearl a

> friend's mother threw on me one time.

>

> It's ok to talk to yourself and it's ok to answer yourself, but you

are

> in trouble if you start saying Huh? "

>

> I think most of our accomplishments are done alone, not in groups.

> That's not to say I don't need people. After a period of isolation

it

> feels good to get out amongst the folks again. But then that's part

> of the idea of the isolation to begin with.

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Recently there have been a few docs abt the mercifully few

UK 12-step rehabs. In one of them , there was a

" shopaholic " . When she did her " Step 1 " talking abt

clocking up vast debts buying luxury clothes that put her

family in severe financial jeopardy, afterward everybody

laid into her telling her what a greedy, selfish woman she

was. Now some ppl reading this might agree - if alcoholism

isnt a disease, shopalism certainly aint, you will think.

Be that as it may (*) what I thought odd was after this

ritual humiliation, everybody HUGGED her. After they'd just

told her what a shit she was? And of course, she would be

told it wasnt her, it was her disease. So what's with all

the humiliation? This isnt just neurotic, this is psychotic.

Another thing abt these programs is they never mention the

12 step program of these rehabs, even so much as mention

needing a " higher power " to recover. Why do neither the

presenters, or the staff and patients they interview, ever

mention such the very kingpin of the therapeutic approach?

The closest one got was showing a shot of a 12-step wall

chart, viewed from BELOW, so that the full text was almost

illegible, for just a few seconds, so someone might even

not notice the references to God - or only get them

subliminally.

The truth is, that the 12sp is " insider doctrine " that

they'd rather the punter didnt know abt till they're

booked in, and the incredibly reverential reporters dont

want to subject the same scrutiny as they would to any

other cult, especially one making *medical* claims -

especially in these days when New Age religions and

" Alternative Medicine " are so ascendant.

Pete

(*) Arguably, there need be no need to hypothesise a

disease to explain addiction to an intoxicating substance,

such as alcohol, but inability to regulate normal behavior

(shopping within one's needs and resources) might suggest

some kind of behavioral dysregulation that could be part of

a psychological disorder - in other words, the credibility

of these 'diseases' may be the reverse of their actual

validity.

> I was remembering in my first rehab when they actually gave us a WORKBOOK to

> do the fearless moral inventory. It was sort of a multiple choice, then essay

> type thing, then we would bring it to group and exchange it with the person

> sitting next to us. Then we all would sit for a while a demoralize and

> unvalidate each others true feeling and tell each other what we really meant

> , and later make fun of people spelling. Very healthy

> Jen

[Guest guest]

At 11:59 PM 7/22/99 +0100, Pete Watts wrote:

>Recently there have been a few docs abt the mercifully few

>UK 12-step rehabs. In one of them , there was a

> " shopaholic " . When she did her " Step 1 " talking abt

>clocking up vast debts buying luxury clothes that put her

>family in severe financial jeopardy, afterward everybody

>laid into her telling her what a greedy, selfish woman she

>was. Now some ppl reading this might agree - if alcoholism

>isnt a disease, shopalism certainly aint, you will think.

>Be that as it may (*) what I thought odd was after this

>ritual humiliation, everybody HUGGED her.

Yes, I've seen it, that kind of thing happens a lot -

" I love you, so it's my obligation to not hold back on

telling you everything that's wrong with your life. " It's

a double message - " You're a piece of shit, but you should

be grateful because we love you anyway. Honestly telling you

what a piece of shit you are is the most loving thing we can

do for you. " And for the people who speak it, there's a grain

of truth to it - the best they know how to treat others is to

put them down.

> After they'd just

>told her what a shit she was? And of course, she would be

>told it wasnt her, it was her disease. So what's with all

>the humiliation? This isnt just neurotic, this is psychotic.

Yes, precisely. This kind of message DOES drive a person crazy,

makes one question reality, at least on some level, and question

one's own rational thinking. This makes for excellent cult

indoctrination. There's also many-against-one, measuring the

importance of one's own opinion and beliefs against a group's

different opinion - 'How can I be right and all these other

people be wrong? maybe it's me that's wrong.'

Of course the people doing this don't have a clue that's what

they're doing, they're just acting on their feelings. At one of

my most recent AA meetings about three years ago there was an

attractive young woman I had been aquainted with (she was the

daughter of an Alanon friend) who had a drinking experience that

took her to jail. She picked up a white chip at the meeting. I

noticed I had a remarkable desire to hug her, and not solely

because she was attractive. It was the AA programming, " You've

been a bad girl, but now you're finally doing the Right Thing,

so welcome to The Group. " I saw where my desire to hug her went

along with indoctrination into the group ONLY because I had

read lots of books on cults, didn't want to be in AA, and could

look critially at my desires and actions, especially when they

were like everyone else's in AA.

>Another thing abt these programs is they never mention the

>12 step program of these rehabs, even so much as mention

>needing a " higher power " to recover. Why do neither the

>presenters, or the staff and patients they interview, ever

>mention such the very kingpin of the therapeutic approach?

>The closest one got was showing a shot of a 12-step wall

>chart, viewed from BELOW, so that the full text was almost

>illegible, for just a few seconds, so someone might even

>not notice the references to God - or only get them

>subliminally.

And the AA movie " My name is Bill W. " was very low-key on

God, perhaps not even mentioning anything of a religious or

'spiritual' nature, and the 12 steps didn't show up in it

either. In the AA meetings I attended at the time, people said

how this was a good thing, because too much talk of god would

have scared too many people away from AA.

If I recall there was a 'bait and switch' message critical

of AA on the SOS list recently. It looked like a really good

calling-AA-on-its-shit message. I may invite the poster to this

list or ask permission to repost it.

-----

<http://listen.to/benbradley> New and Improved!

[Guest guest]

Hi Ben;

posted a Bait and Switch post about the levels of

indoctrination into AA.