Guest guest Posted June 28, 1999 Report Share Posted June 28, 1999 EAP = Employee Assistance Program; carried by the bigger U.S. corporations, and probably if you dig deep enough, it was thought up by lawyers to protect their corporate butts somehow or another. Jan Re: AA/Medical treatment? What is EAP?I'm not sure what to say but I feel I need to reply. My experience with an EAP hurt me. The only other thing that has happenedto me as an adult which hurt me as badly was dealing with infertility. I didn't share my experience as a personal slam against or anyoneelse. I shared it because...that's what people do here, they share storiesabout how they've been hurt by the 12 steps. judith> Hello People- > I used to be an EAP with the UAW. I got thought of as a Narc and treatedas an outsider. I hated it. I just wanted to help people with theirproblems. Granted, being the Big Book thumper I was at the time, thatcertainly played a humongous part!! The only thing I gained in my yearsserving was a feeling that I had helped a fellow human being. In the UAW,they don't pay you extra for following up on people when you visit them atthe treatment center or hospital after hours, but I wanted to do it. (Theydidn't encourage it, either). I'm not really tooting my own horn, here.Just thought I'd share another side of it.> > > _______________________________________________________Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/------------------------------------------------------------------------FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals!Try something new and find out how you could win two round-trip tickets anywhere in the U.S.! http://clickhere./click/368eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Click Here! eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-freewww. - Simplifying group communications ___________=_ADZZXXH eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free www. - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 1999 Report Share Posted June 28, 1999 cool. I read that too but in a self help manual being more effective than treatment. Through Addiction Research Foundation. CF At 11:48 PM 6/28/99 -0700, you wrote: > >On Mon, 28 Jun 1999 16:39:15 -0600 D Hall > wrote: >> When I talk to someone who is using heavily, I try to sell them on >> medical detox, not treatment. After medical detox, they are back >> in charge and can make their own decision. >> >> I've had no success, but nobody has been hurt by my efforts either. >> I think I would have a hard time if someone did it my way and the >> results were really bad. > >Hi > >In one study I heard of, they found that weeks of intensive >therapy was no better than detox and a single hours >counselling. > >The counsellor might have been a " Mrs Cromibe " - famous in >the annals of addiction medicine with her ability, in one >hour of telling intemperate men to think of their mother, >to match what was supposed to be amongst the very best of >what alcohol treatment had to offer. > >Pete > >Owner >PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm >PD Personality Disorders Discussion > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > --- Up With People! Visit: Information on recovery alternatives at Http:\\www.BCRecovernet.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 On Mon, 28 Jun 1999 16:39:15 -0600 D Hall wrote: > When I talk to someone who is using heavily, I try to sell them on > medical detox, not treatment. After medical detox, they are back > in charge and can make their own decision. > > I've had no success, but nobody has been hurt by my efforts either. > I think I would have a hard time if someone did it my way and the > results were really bad. Hi In one study I heard of, they found that weeks of intensive therapy was no better than detox and a single hours counselling. The counsellor might have been a " Mrs Cromibe " - famous in the annals of addiction medicine with her ability, in one hour of telling intemperate men to think of their mother, to match what was supposed to be amongst the very best of what alcohol treatment had to offer. Pete Owner PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm PD Personality Disorders Discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 Hi I live on Long Island Ny, and in Nassau county alone thre are 45 detox programs I called all of them and meetings are mandatory. Any suggestions on where to find a stricktly Medical detox? My husband was also a raving crackhead, put it down five years ago and has not thought of it since. That makes me question that is there such a thing as medically detoxing at all? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 Hi ! I saw your post and just had to respond. I have thought of myself as a " saver " most of my life-even when I was drinking. I needed to develop distance between myself and people who were not growing in the same direction. It caused a great upheaval in my life-but I am far better off taking care of myself. I'm the most valuable asset I have! The other thing that came to my attention in the years I have been recovering is that if a drug addict or alcoholic wants to get high , THEY WILL. Period. Nobody worried about getting me straight, that's for sure! I had to help myself. It's the only way it does work. Take care. peace... wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=4986 > When I finished " AA Cult Or Cure " I just wanted to go to every known AA > meeting in my area and drag people out by their hair. > But instead, I made the fool hardy mistake of trying to tell my parents, who > right away bolted their doors in fear that I was looking for an excuse to go > off the wagon. > I have a close friend who smokes crack until he has a seizure, then goes to > an AA meeting. They all say welcome back and snicker, I have SEEN them. > He is their reference point of how well they work their programs. And when he > dies from this which he will soon, they will show up at his funeral talking > that bullshit about if he was only capable of getting honest. I have tried to > talk about all of this with him, but i'm sorry to say that he is fried. > I have this overwhelming urge to out and try to save some lives, any > suggestions on my state of mind?? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 Re: AA/Medical treatment? >Hi >I live on Long Island Ny, and in Nassau county alone thre are 45 detox >programs I called all of them and meetings are mandatory. Any suggestions on >where to find a stricktly Medical detox? My husband was also a raving >crackhead, put it down five years ago and has not thought of it since. That >makes me question that is there such a thing as medically detoxing at all? > Hi For medical detox, just see your doctor. Any doctor can prescribe drugs that will alleviate withdrawal, and of course would also be able to put someone in a hospital if they were having serious problems. There are also drugs now (so I hear) that reduce cravings. Of course any particular physician might turn out to be a twit and refuse to treat drug or alcohol withdrawal, or might claim not to know what to do, so you might have to make a few phone calls. There definitely is such a thing as medically detoxing, at least from alcohol, because withdrawal can be fatal, as well as unpleasant. Most of the time it isn't necessary, though the treatment centers like to make a big deal out of it in order to collect mucho $$. -- wally ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 Hi ; What Wally Said! He's right on, any MD can and will do it for you. If you have a regular primary care physician, just see him or her, tell them what you want and why. Medical detox for alcohol is four days. Might be longer for cocaine and also depends on age. Usually if you have insurance they will be glad to cover it. Also most Docs take the opportunity to do a full general health work up while a person is there. Many of us users have undiagnosed hypertension and other ailments which show right up during detox. That is a service you won't get in a 12step based treatment facility. Also in a hospital a person always has the option of setting up psychotherapy for after detox, if they want it. I would recomend it because psychotherapy kept me straight. I realize it's not everyones cup of tea, but it turned the trick for me, so from where I sit, it looks GREAT! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 To me, the word " anal " implies " nitpicking. " And it's not nitpicking to insist that the language be used correctly. One of the reasons AA gets away with so much is that they have perverted words like " powerlessness " and " spirituality, " so that they are bland enough to be acceptable to society at large, but at the same time, become fairly meaningless. I am quite sure that people talk about spirituality all the time without realizing that they are not talking about the same thing. I'm all for language evolving in interesting ways, but taking all the meaning out of words makes them useless. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >Don't worry. You'll toughen up! > >I used to be told I wore my heart on my sleeve, but I think I was just so >afraid of being rejected I kissed butt all over the place when I didn't have >to! It takes time, practice and learning respect for yourself instead if >humiliation......er, I mean Humility...just kidding! I used to hear >comparisons about humiliation and humility and it used to piss me off that >people thought there was a similarity in meaning. I was an English major in >college and I get really anal sometimes!! > >Take it easy!!! > >Love, > > > >> >>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >>To: 12-step-freeegroups >>Subject: Re: AA/Medical treatment? >>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 08:00:12 PDT >> >> >> >> > No offense taken, Judith. That was a long time ago. Sorry to hear you >>were damaged by your experience. That is not the intented result. >> >>Thanks . I guess I'm a little defensive about that whole >>experience... >> >>Judith >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________________ >>Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>eGroups Spotlight: >> " Lucid Dreaming " - Tips, techniques, and discussion of any >>topic related to lucid dreaming. >>http://clickhere./click/112 >> >> >> >>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free >> - Simplifying group communications >> >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! >Try something new and discover more ways to save! >http://clickhere./click/381 > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 Where I was in treatment they insisted that we wouldn't learn anything if we were comfortable, so they made the inmates take the uncomfortable chairs. I was thinking so much about my back pain that I missed 3/4 of what they were saying, which in retrospect is probably just as well. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >Hi Pete; > >It was Harold all right, though your simile is on time also. > >He and the fellow whose campaign for president he managed >pushed that National Sub Abuse Act through. One of those little >fine print subsections made about 30 million bucks available and > got it all, in a loan for TX centers, then his pals in the >senate forgave the loan. Instant millionaire. > >That's one of the many problems with AA sobriety. It's still OK to >steal and run scams if your AA. The sponsor that messed with my >second wife told me how much he respected the guy for pulling it >off. Stealing seems to be an honorable way of making money in >AA as well as adultery to satisfy the libido. What a bunch of sick >jerks. > >I suppose when AA starts visibly going down there will be real >trouble for anyone who visibly opposes them. Fella' will wake up >one day with all his credit cards over their limits, no money in the >bank and the papers carrying a story about him being some guys >gay lover when he is straight. Anything reachable by computer is >unsafe if a hacker is after you. AA swings enough money to give a >few folks a hard way to go. I hope it dies slowly and they don't >catch on until their reserves are too low to really hurt anyone. >Otherwise they will raise hell on the way down. > >I think all of the large TX centers are gone from Iowa and we had >about 35 with 40 or more beds. I think they have all closed. Here >the insurance companies will pay for outpatient, but will only pay >inpatient after outpatient failure. Also inpatient treatments are >limited to two under most insurers. That makes slim pickins for >the TX centers. Most 40 bed units had the same 200 or so >patients just repeating, it was a gold mine. The insurance >companies got wise and stopped it. > >With the new cases saying 12steps=religion, I look for insurance >companies to quit paying for 12steps completely in the near future > >I was in Brother Harolds Center in March of 1990. Cheap screw >had the temp inside at 60 degrees, everybody running around with >sweats over their clothes. The staff had a small electric heater in >the nursing office and even that got taken away. I checked out and >hit the first bar. I got sober in October. > >Harold came and gave a talk. Said he wanted everyone to take the >first step over their cigarettes because in two days the whole >center would be non smoking. That was the real last straw. >Several of us left. Also he took out TV and all literature except AA >aproved and bibles. No newspapers no books no tv or radio. >Fountain Lake did the same thing so that didn't bother me. >Besides I had my station wagon there and we smuggled my two >accoustic guitars up and shut up my room and played and grinned. > >I think TX Centers here in Iowa were feeling the pinch even then. >That 60 degree temperature in a modern building was uncalled for. >My hands were cold all the time I was there. We were too busy >keeping warm to do any real treatment stuff. I may have been >there five days in all, not sure. It was overall pretty terrible. > >That was the last one I was ever in and am I glad. I hated being >ordered around by some guy I considered a cut below a prison >guard and prison guards average high 80's in IQ, many can't read or >write. > >AA stuff can hang on and grab me when I least expect it. Man had >dropped his tv in my shop when I wasn't there. He'd left his name >and address on a note on the tv. Couple of days later he walked in >stuck out his hand and said " Hi I'm Ted, I shook his hand and said > " Hi I'm and " I almost said I'm an alcoholic. I haven't been in >a meeting for seven years. Damn that stuff is insidious. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Just Tell Us What You Want... >Respond.com - Shopping the World for You! >http://clickhere./click/390 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 At 07:37 PM 6/29/99 -0700, Kayleigh S wrote: >To me, the word " anal " implies " nitpicking. " And it's not nitpicking to insist that the language be used correctly. One of the reasons AA gets away with so much is that they have perverted words like " powerlessness " and " spirituality, " so that they are bland enough to be acceptable to society at large, but at the same time, become fairly meaningless. I am quite sure that people talk about spirituality all the time without realizing that they are not talking about the same thing. > >I'm all for language evolving in interesting ways, but taking all the meaning out of words makes them useless. As is documented in several books on cults, loading the language is one of the main features of a cult. When non-alcoholics get drunk, they get sober overnight, but it takes months or years for alcoholics in AA to get 'sober'. An uninitiated person (not knowing the AA meaning of sober) might think, alcoholics can stay drunk for MONTHS after they quit drinking? ----- http://listen.to/benbradley ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 A hospital without a TC would probably do medical detox. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >Hi >I live on Long Island Ny, and in Nassau county alone thre are 45 detox >programs I called all of them and meetings are mandatory. Any suggestions on >where to find a stricktly Medical detox? My husband was also a raving >crackhead, put it down five years ago and has not thought of it since. That >makes me question that is there such a thing as medically detoxing at all? > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! >Try something new and find out how you could win two round-trip tickets >anywhere in the U.S.! http://clickhere./click/368 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 1999 Report Share Posted June 30, 1999 As A last resort of the courts I was sent to A 12 month facility in Saranac Ny, called St. phs. It was run by Nuns and Priests, or so they would have you believe. Most of the Priests that were their had been in trouble with their order, so they were technically on punishment of some kind. The Nuns worked in the office. So you had your regular uneducated bunch of CAC people telling you how to run your life. They took away all your clothes and made you go to a thrift shop and buy old ugly stuff. It was a Catholic Facility and you could not have your Bible!!! I was Bulemic by that time and they made me show men my puke to shame me. After that did not work, I had to eat it. Finally, I got busted with an eyelash curler, so I was given a bowl haircut. My hair was below my belt. Now you must realize I was looking at Prison time, but I was so angry and lost, I could not even use the phone! The last straw to them was when in a confrontational group everyone had hopped the bandwagon about my selfish self centeredness and I pointed out to the counselor that she wore enough makeup to shame Tammy Faye Baker. I got a bus ticket the next day. Where is the Medical Treatment??? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 1999 Report Share Posted June 30, 1999 At 07:42 PM 6/29/99 -0700, you wrote: >Where I was in treatment they insisted that we wouldn't learn anything if we were comfortable, so they made the inmates take the uncomfortable chairs. I was thinking so much about my back pain that I missed 3/4 of what they were saying, which in retrospect is probably just as well. > >--- >Kayleigh I think the stupidity of that theory is astounding. If that were true, this would be a well known fact about learning and students would be buying specially designed chairs that were scientifically designed to be uncomfortable, and getting first class degrees, and we would all be at it. I would have a 3 " childs wooden brick taped to my left buttock so that I could not sit comfortably anywhere, and I would be known for my remarkable retention of information. It is bollocks, and based on puritanical ideas about pleasure and punishment. " No, I'm not a real counsellor, I just trained here in this treatment centre and was trained by other counsellors who weren't real counsellors either, but yes, we have an advanced system here- you've been bad and now you have to suffer on bad chairs. " Joe Berenbaum mailto:joe-b@... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 1999 Report Share Posted June 30, 1999 Java, did they *really* do this to you??? Joe, I'm glad cricket is here because I want her to see the dark side of XA. This is not with particular reference to this post. Pete > As A last resort of the courts I was sent to A 12 month facility in Saranac > Ny, called St. phs. It was run by Nuns and Priests, or so they would have > you believe. Most of the Priests that were their had been in trouble with > their order, so they were technically on punishment of some kind. The Nuns > worked in the office. So you had your regular uneducated bunch of CAC people > telling you how to run your life. They took away all your clothes and made > you go to a thrift shop and buy old ugly stuff. It was a Catholic Facility > and you could not have your Bible!!! I was Bulemic by that time and they made > me show men my puke to shame me. After that did not work, I had to eat it. > Finally, I got busted with an eyelash curler, so I was given a bowl haircut. > My hair was below my belt. Now you must realize I was looking at Prison time, > but I was so angry and lost, I could not even use the phone! The last straw > to them was when in a confrontational group everyone had hopped the bandwagon > about my selfish self centeredness and I pointed out to the counselor that > she wore enough makeup to shame Tammy Faye Baker. I got a bus ticket the next > day. > Where is the Medical Treatment??? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! > Try something new and find out how you could win two round-trip tickets > anywhere in the U.S.! http://clickhere./click/368 > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Pete Watts Owner PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm PD Personality Disorders Discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 1999 Report Share Posted June 30, 1999 Touche, Kaleigh! I agree with you. And thanks! I have a 20 year old daughter that has been in AA for almost 3 years-about the time I've been out. To listen to the twisting of definition and meaning, not to mention the regurgitation of quotes affects me with more impact the longer I'm away from it. I consider myself spiritual, but it's not god-based-it's human-based. My philosophy right now is to simply love myself and treat others well. Period. " Spirituality " is a broad term, to be sure. Things got way too complicated during the years I spent in AA and even before in my search for a belief system. Right now, I'm working to unclutter the mind! wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5069 > To me, the word " anal " implies " nitpicking. " And it's not nitpicking to insist that the language be used correctly. One of the reasons AA gets away with so much is that they have perverted words like " powerlessness " and " spirituality, " so that they are bland enough to be acceptable to society at large, but at the same time, become fairly meaningless. I am quite sure that people talk about spirituality all the time without realizing that they are not talking about the same thing. > > I'm all for language evolving in interesting ways, but taking all the meaning out of words makes them useless. > > --- > Kayleigh > > Zz > zZ > |\ z _,,,---,,_ > /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ > |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) > > > > > >Don't worry. You'll toughen up! > > > >I used to be told I wore my heart on my sleeve, but I think I was just so > >afraid of being rejected I kissed butt all over the place when I didn't have > >to! It takes time, practice and learning respect for yourself instead if > >humiliation......er, I mean Humility...just kidding! I used to hear > >comparisons about humiliation and humility and it used to piss me off that > >people thought there was a similarity in meaning. I was an English major in > >college and I get really anal sometimes!! > > > >Take it easy!!! > > > >Love, > > > > > > > >> > >>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups > >>To: 12-step-freeegroups > >>Subject: Re: AA/Medical treatment? > >>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 08:00:12 PDT > >> > >> > >> > >> > No offense taken, Judith. That was a long time ago. Sorry to hear you > >>were damaged by your experience. That is not the intented result. > >> > >>Thanks . I guess I'm a little defensive about that whole > >>experience... > >> > >>Judith > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________________ > >>Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ > >> > >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>eGroups Spotlight: > >> " Lucid Dreaming " - Tips, techniques, and discussion of any > >>topic related to lucid dreaming. > >>http://clickhere./click/112 > >> > >> > >> > >>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > >> - Simplifying group communications > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >_______________________________________________________________ > >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! > >Try something new and discover more ways to save! > >http://clickhere./click/381 > > > > > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- > Share what you know. Learn what you don't. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 1999 Report Share Posted June 30, 1999 Hi J; If that stuff were done to you in prison, any Federal Court I've ever known would have labled it Cruel and Unusual Punishment. Yet under the guise of treatment they get away with it. What a bunch of twisted minds it took to devise that. Most folks would think you were talking about something that happened in the middle ages. Glad you survived the torture. Shows the Marquis de Sade is alive and well and living in churches doctrine. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 1999 Report Share Posted June 30, 1999 are you sure the name was saranac? or sardonic? At 08:10 AM 6/30/99 EDT, you wrote: >As A last resort of the courts I was sent to A 12 month facility in Saranac >Ny, called St. phs. It was run by Nuns and Priests, or so they would have >you believe. Most of the Priests that were their had been in trouble with >their order, so they were technically on punishment of some kind. The Nuns >worked in the office. So you had your regular uneducated bunch of CAC people >telling you how to run your life. They took away all your clothes and made >you go to a thrift shop and buy old ugly stuff. It was a Catholic Facility >and you could not have your Bible!!! I was Bulemic by that time and they made >me show men my puke to shame me. After that did not work, I had to eat it. >Finally, I got busted with an eyelash curler, so I was given a bowl haircut. >My hair was below my belt. Now you must realize I was looking at Prison time, >but I was so angry and lost, I could not even use the phone! The last straw >to them was when in a confrontational group everyone had hopped the bandwagon >about my selfish self centeredness and I pointed out to the counselor that >she wore enough makeup to shame Tammy Faye Baker. I got a bus ticket the next >day. >Where is the Medical Treatment??? > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! >Try something new and find out how you could win two round-trip tickets >anywhere in the U.S.! http://clickhere./click/368 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > --- Life is a candy store. Visit: Information on recovery alternatives at Http:\\www.BCRecovernet.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 1999 Report Share Posted June 30, 1999 Hi Joe; A for real teacher once told me that " The mind will only absorb as long as the butt will endure. " It's amazing the punishment and shame base of treatment for a disease. I can't every recall a doctor telling me he wanted me to be uncomfortable so I'd get well quicker. I guess it makes as much sense as anything AA does. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 1999 Report Share Posted June 30, 1999 This is totally disgraceful, and I'm so sorry to hear what you went through. This kind of spirit crushing is as sick as it gets... Apple > As A last resort of the courts I was sent to A 12 month facility in Saranac > Ny, called St. phs. It was run by Nuns and Priests, or so they would have > you believe. Most of the Priests that were their had been in trouble with > their order, so they were technically on punishment of some kind. The Nuns > worked in the office. So you had your regular uneducated bunch of CAC people > telling you how to run your life. They took away all your clothes and made > you go to a thrift shop and buy old ugly stuff. It was a Catholic Facility > and you could not have your Bible!!! I was Bulemic by that time and they made > me show men my puke to shame me. After that did not work, I had to eat it. > Finally, I got busted with an eyelash curler, so I was given a bowl haircut. > My hair was below my belt. Now you must realize I was looking at Prison time, > but I was so angry and lost, I could not even use the phone! The last straw > to them was when in a confrontational group everyone had hopped the bandwagon > about my selfish self centeredness and I pointed out to the counselor that > she wore enough makeup to shame Tammy Faye Baker. I got a bus ticket the next > day. > Where is the Medical Treatment??? > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 1999 Report Share Posted June 30, 1999 Well, I don't buy into it either, as I didn't buy into most of what they told me. I also learned early on that criticism was a no-no. I went around in a daze for months after that, astounded that not only these otherwise intelligent people, but also most of the outside world, believed this BS. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >At 07:42 PM 6/29/99 -0700, you wrote: >>Where I was in treatment they insisted that we wouldn't learn anything if >we were comfortable, so they made the inmates take the uncomfortable >chairs. I was thinking so much about my back pain that I missed 3/4 of >what they were saying, which in retrospect is probably just as well. >> >>--- >>Kayleigh > >I think the stupidity of that theory is astounding. If that were true, this >would be a well known fact about learning and students would be buying >specially designed chairs that were scientifically designed to be >uncomfortable, and getting first class degrees, and we would all be at it. >I would have a 3 " childs wooden brick taped to my left buttock so that I >could not sit comfortably anywhere, and I would be known for my remarkable >retention of information. It is bollocks, and based on puritanical ideas >about pleasure and punishment. " No, I'm not a real counsellor, I just >trained here in this treatment centre and was trained by other counsellors >who weren't real counsellors either, but yes, we have an advanced system >here- you've been bad and now you have to suffer on bad chairs. " > >Joe Berenbaum >mailto:joe-b@... > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! >Try something new and discover more ways to save! >http://clickhere./click/381 > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 1999 Report Share Posted June 30, 1999 At 01:20 PM 6/30/99 -0700, you wrote: >This is totally disgraceful, and I'm so sorry to hear what you went through. This kind of spirit crushing is as sick as it gets... >Apple > > >> As A last resort of the courts I was sent to A 12 month facility in Saranac >> Ny, called St. phs. It was run by Nuns and Priests, or so they would have >> you believe. <much snipped> This is an amazing story. The nuns who made someone eat their own vomit are really on the cutting edge aren't they. I suppose if they were (heaven forbid) looking after a heart transplant patient who started to reject the new heart, they'd get a croquet mallet and try to bash it back in again. Joe Berenbaum mailto:joe-b@... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 1999 Report Share Posted June 30, 1999 At 01:20 PM 6/30/99 -0700, you wrote: >This is totally disgraceful, and I'm so sorry to hear what you went through. This kind of spirit crushing is as sick as it gets... >Apple > > >> As A last resort of the courts I was sent to A 12 month facility in Saranac >> Ny, called St. phs. It was run by Nuns and Priests, or so they would have >> you believe. <much snipped> This is an amazing story. The nuns who made someone eat their own vomit are really on the cutting edge aren't they. I suppose if they were (heaven forbid) looking after a heart transplant patient who started to reject the new heart, they'd get a croquet mallet and try to bash it back in again. Joe Berenbaum mailto:joe-b@... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 1999 Report Share Posted June 30, 1999 At 01:20 PM 6/30/99 -0700, you wrote: >This is totally disgraceful, and I'm so sorry to hear what you went through. This kind of spirit crushing is as sick as it gets... >Apple > > >> As A last resort of the courts I was sent to A 12 month facility in Saranac >> Ny, called St. phs. It was run by Nuns and Priests, or so they would have >> you believe. <much snipped> This is an amazing story. The nuns who made someone eat their own vomit are really on the cutting edge aren't they. I suppose if they were (heaven forbid) looking after a heart transplant patient who started to reject the new heart, they'd get a croquet mallet and try to bash it back in again. Joe Berenbaum mailto:joe-b@... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 1999 Report Share Posted June 30, 1999 I knew a woman who was sent to this place. She was a nun, and her order sent her there. She couldn't stand it. I no longer remember the horror stories she told me. One was that there was no feedback, no real treatment, no indication of when you would be able to leave or had met the goals of the program. She ran away. I thought that was pretty nifty, a nun standing up to the church-run institution. Apparently the order was aghast when they learned what it was like, it having been highly recommended, but they sent her someplace afterwards. Whether that was necessary, I don't know. I do know that she left the order almost immediately afterwards. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >At 01:20 PM 6/30/99 -0700, you wrote: >>This is totally disgraceful, and I'm so sorry to hear what you went >through. This kind of spirit crushing is as sick as it gets... >>Apple >> >> >>> As A last resort of the courts I was sent to A 12 month facility in >Saranac >>> Ny, called St. phs. It was run by Nuns and Priests, or so they would >have >>> you believe. > ><much snipped> > >This is an amazing story. The nuns who made someone eat their own vomit are >really on the cutting edge aren't they. I suppose if they were (heaven >forbid) looking after a heart transplant patient who started to reject the >new heart, they'd get a croquet mallet and try to bash it back in again. > >Joe Berenbaum >mailto:joe-b@... > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! >Try something new and discover more ways to save! >http://clickhere./click/381 > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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