Guest guest Posted June 28, 1999 Report Share Posted June 28, 1999 Ok .... Thanks for answering, and I will spill what is on my heart... I am an alocholic, and was in that life style for more years than I care to remember, it destroyed my life, over and over. I have been sober 18 months *today*...and was attending AA everyday, or twice a day, until about 4 weeks ago. I can not force myself to sit through a whole meeting when I do bother going now, which is seldom. I have many things that AA has given me that I am grateful for. But there are other things that I do not like AT ALL, and am tired of those things being forced down my throat and being told I am " not giving back what I have received " , and I am ungrateful, selfish, self-centered, etc. if I do not to exactly what they tell me to do. I am not " working my program " etc. Where we really started having a run in, was about 4 months ago. I had been nominated into a service position that I did not want. I am a single mother, and have to work two jobs frequently. When I told them I did not have time for daily meetings or this position, I was told that I was on my way to a relapse, that I needed to make time for daily meetings, that I was not spiritual..etc.I walked into our service work meeting 4 months ago and erased my name from the position I held, They all started saying, " hey, you can't do that " ,and I said, " I did " ....and walked out. My heart is really hurting ....it has been my outlet and my strength for the last 18 months, so now where do I turn? Since I seldom go anymore, I am treated like I have no sense, and that I am full of it when I do speak... I don't want to drink again, I miss my friends, and the whole thing has hurt me more than I can say. I feel completely lost...no, that is not true. I do believe in God, and know he is here, but my friends are gone.... >Hi ; > >Yeah me too on the coffee, just forgot to mention the thermos of >coffee as it's practically an extension of my arm. > >My AA books are all boxed up, don't know what I'm going to do >with them. They are out in the shop. I noticed them on my >bookshelf out there and took them down and boxed them. I don't >even recall putting them on that shelf to begin with. > >Takes time to get out of the AA habit. I haven't been to a meeting >in seven years and nearly introduced myself as an alcoholic to a >customer last week. > >Old habits die hard. > >Glad you're with us > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Don't let the next virus knock you out! Special Offer to eGroups members >Install @Backup by June 30th and win a $100 Gift Certificate from Amazon >.com and @Backup free for a year! http://clickhere./click/363 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 1999 Report Share Posted June 28, 1999 Hi Jan; Proverbs covers a lot more ground than the preacher. I think The Preacher hangs together better, has a continuity to it that's sort of lacking in proverbs. I don't believe I've read a bible in the last ten years. Last I remember for sure, I taught Vacation Bible School in 1981 in Des Moines. Boy was I a sight, out playing softball with the kids and I was in a body cast. It was fun though. I remember running for a pop fly and as I reached out, the cast overbalanced me. I caught it, but was I a mess 8-) You've never lived till you've had infield dust inside a body cast! I'm scratchin' just remembering it. At the time I was about a month out of prison and being with the kids was great. I hated to see the 9 days end. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 1999 Report Share Posted June 28, 1999 Hi ; Yeah me too on the coffee, just forgot to mention the thermos of coffee as it's practically an extension of my arm. My AA books are all boxed up, don't know what I'm going to do with them. They are out in the shop. I noticed them on my bookshelf out there and took them down and boxed them. I don't even recall putting them on that shelf to begin with. Takes time to get out of the AA habit. I haven't been to a meeting in seven years and nearly introduced myself as an alcoholic to a customer last week. Old habits die hard. Glad you're with us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 1999 Report Share Posted June 28, 1999 Your friends are not your friends if they desert you. We are all outhere many and many. Connect with people of new passions and enjoy whatever you like. The world is a candystore and there are so many better things to do than to go to meetings where they concentrate on what it is that they will not do. Join night school, take time for yourself long walks, exercise, volunteer work, movies, astronomy, politics..., whatever. There is a fabulous world out there. Carol 0At 05:51 PM 6/28/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Ok .... > >Thanks for answering, and I will spill what is on my heart... > >I am an alocholic, and was in that life style for more years than I care to >remember, it destroyed my life, over and over. I have been sober 18 months >*today*...and was attending AA everyday, or twice a day, until about 4 weeks >ago. I can not force myself to sit through a whole meeting when I do bother >going now, which is seldom. > >I have many things that AA has given me that I am grateful for. But there >are other things that I do not like AT ALL, and am tired of those things >being forced down my throat and being told I am " not giving back what I have >received " , and I am ungrateful, selfish, self-centered, etc. if I do not to >exactly what they tell me to do. I am not " working my program " etc. > >Where we really started having a run in, was about 4 months ago. I had been >nominated into a service position that I did not want. I am a single mother, >and have to work two jobs frequently. When I told them I did not have time >for daily meetings or this position, I was told that I was on my way to a >relapse, that I needed to make time for daily meetings, that I was not >spiritual..etc.I walked into our service work meeting 4 months ago and >erased my name from the position I held, They all started saying, " hey, you >can't do that " ,and I said, " I did " ....and walked out. > >My heart is really hurting ....it has been my outlet and my strength for the >last 18 months, so now where do I turn? Since I seldom go anymore, I am >treated like I have no sense, and that I am full of it when I do speak... > >I don't want to drink again, I miss my friends, and the whole thing has hurt >me more than I can say. I feel completely lost...no, that is not true. I do >believe in God, and know he is here, but my friends are gone.... > > > > >>Hi ; >> >>Yeah me too on the coffee, just forgot to mention the thermos of >>coffee as it's practically an extension of my arm. >> >>My AA books are all boxed up, don't know what I'm going to do >>with them. They are out in the shop. I noticed them on my >>bookshelf out there and took them down and boxed them. I don't >>even recall putting them on that shelf to begin with. >> >>Takes time to get out of the AA habit. I haven't been to a meeting >>in seven years and nearly introduced myself as an alcoholic to a >>customer last week. >> >>Old habits die hard. >> >>Glad you're with us >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>Don't let the next virus knock you out! Special Offer to eGroups members >>Install @Backup by June 30th and win a $100 Gift Certificate from Amazon >>.com and @Backup free for a year! http://clickhere./click/363 >> >> >>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free >> - Simplifying group communications >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! >Try something new and find out how you could win two round-trip tickets >anywhere in the U.S.! http://clickhere./click/368 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > --- Up With People! Visit: Information on recovery alternatives at Http:\\www.BCRecovernet.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 1999 Report Share Posted June 28, 1999 At 11:08 PM 6/28/99 -0700, you wrote: >HOw do I put my pic in the vault? > >P. You need to have the picture in digital form as a jpg file of 20-50 k in size. Then you can upload it automatically from your machine while you are looking at the e-groups web site following the instructions Apple posted earlier under the subject line " Vault " . If you want to bring over a negative I can scan it in my film scanner, but I haven't got a flatbed scanner so I can't scan prints (yet). Or you can get a picture scanned by a variety of commercial outfits- for a price. However you arrange it, you need to have the picture as a digital file in jpg format on a machine that is connectable to the net and where you can access the e-groups web site. Joe Berenbaum mailto:joe-b@... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 1999 Report Share Posted June 28, 1999 At 11:13 PM 6/28/99 -0700, you wrote: >Hey Joe, > >Well I bet you do a better pic than the photo-booth one I >have at present! > >P. Indeed. And you can elect to have partial visual anonymity if you like and be looking over the top of a book or whatever. We can be creative. I have a Big Book you might like to pose with. Or maybe something else would appeal... Joe Berenbaum mailto:joe-b@... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 1999 Report Share Posted June 28, 1999 Hi - A small part of my deprogramming is for me to bash AA any time I can!!!! In public when I visit some of my so called friends at the club. My phone does not ring off the hook, thats for sure. And that is OK. There are 6 billion people on this planet and AA is not the only social outlet. I feels good to vent verbally. I too have lost my so called " friends " in AA but they are trash now that I can see it for what it is and I'm simply NOT trash. I have a dose of PTSD due to sexual molestation as a small boy but that did not count while I attended AA. Like they allow the current sexual molestor in the Alano Club in Salt Lake without supervision. Fuck those people. I had to slowly learn that it was not my fault that things happened to me as a child, but AA brained washed my into believing that I was the cause. What Horseshit. It may take the rest of my life to get back on track but, I have no other choice but to be healthy now. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 1999 Report Share Posted June 28, 1999 Hi ; Your " Friends " sound like my neighbor. He's a city policeman here and when we moved in he and I got acquained and had some nice talks. Since he has a riding mower and we have to push our mower and due to my heart Rose does nearly all the mowing, well he mowed the big open back yard for me once in a while. Then one day he learned I was an exconvict. He has nothing but criticism, gripes about us. Complains about our night light instead of pulling his shade. Where our yards join, he mows no where near his lot line and forces us to mow an extra 6 feet x 100 feet. In other words he's a petty sick old man. He liked me untill he learned about something that happened 22 years ago. Friend? hardly. The tug of the group is compelling, but how much of myself do I have to compromise to have them? Is it worth it to give up my life to have them? Not for me, not anymore. I suckered and went back after a year away and it ended in disaster. I didn't drink, but there's worse things than that by far. Like you I got elected, I was GSR, Rose was Alateen sponsor. A Counsellor and her husband attacked Rose visciously and that was the end of my AA experience. None of my " Friends " stood up to be counted while Rose was under attack. Truth was in AA there are no friends, there is just The Program, vary from it and they turn on you like a bunch of hungry wolves. Like all cults AA brooks no dissent or opinion that's not approved of in advance. Anyone who disagrees is a heretic and will be shouted down by the group in one way or another. AA is full of narrow minded old men who are 30 years old. I'm just glad I finally got out. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 1999 Report Share Posted June 28, 1999 , I feel so sad reading your story. I think I know how you feel. I too lost virtually my entire social network and many people from AA won't talk to me anymore. It takes time to rebuild, but it's better to lose them, and rebuild from scratch than to buy into a fraud for the sake of having a support system. This group was very valuable to me. The longer I stay away, the more I can see that I made the right decision. don't give up! Apple > > Ok .... > > Thanks for answering, and I will spill what is on my heart... > > I am an alocholic, and was in that life style for more years than I care to > remember, it destroyed my life, over and over. I have been sober 18 months > *today*...and was attending AA everyday, or twice a day, until about 4 weeks > ago. I can not force myself to sit through a whole meeting when I do bother > going now, which is seldom. > > I have many things that AA has given me that I am grateful for. But there > are other things that I do not like AT ALL, and am tired of those things > being forced down my throat and being told I am " not giving back what I have > received " , and I am ungrateful, selfish, self-centered, etc. if I do not to > exactly what they tell me to do. I am not " working my program " etc. > > Where we really started having a run in, was about 4 months ago. I had been > nominated into a service position that I did not want. I am a single mother, > and have to work two jobs frequently. When I told them I did not have time > for daily meetings or this position, I was told that I was on my way to a > relapse, that I needed to make time for daily meetings, that I was not > spiritual..etc.I walked into our service work meeting 4 months ago and > erased my name from the position I held, They all started saying, " hey, you > can't do that " ,and I said, " I did " ....and walked out. > > My heart is really hurting ....it has been my outlet and my strength for the > last 18 months, so now where do I turn? Since I seldom go anymore, I am > treated like I have no sense, and that I am full of it when I do speak... > > I don't want to drink again, I miss my friends, and the whole thing has hurt > me more than I can say. I feel completely lost...no, that is not true. I do > believe in God, and know he is here, but my friends are gone.... > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 1999 Report Share Posted June 28, 1999 Apple, When I do go, they act like I am not " ok " ....that I have headed toward a relapse, that I have lost my spirituality, that I am not " good enough " anymore. The few that bothered calling when I first started NOT showing up, would ask me if I had relapsed....and when I said, no, they warned me off all the dangers of not attending, and that I was fooling myself, and I had to remember that " my own best thinking got me into AA " . The " Are you OK? " when I do go is so sanctimonious that it's artificialness reeks to high heaven. It is as if, they are doing so " well " compared to " me " .... sigh....I will still attend at times, but part of my healing is taking care of myself. And if we disagree on what " I " think I need for my healing, so be it. I am an introvert by nature, it takes alot to get me to open up. If I had not known Pete from another list, I would still not be talking. One of the things that horrified me was, after I received my one-year chip, I was SO pressured to get up in front of the group and tell " my story " . I flat could NOT do this. This was the horror of horrors for me, I have avoidant personality disorder and am also borderline. Me, getting up in front of a room full of people is NOT part of my eternal make-up. They refused to believe this in me. One night at birthday night, there were several minutes left in the meeting. One of the men who was so adamant that I do " my story " called me to the podium and told me to talk about what AA had done for me. I made such as ass out of myself, out of TOTAL terror, that the whole room was uncomfortable and embarrassed for me. It was a nightmare.... it was very aparent after that, that I could not do public speaking...but what is sad here, was *I* knew that and had tried to explain this before. No one would take my feelings or thoughts on the matter into hand, until after I had embarrassed myself so much, that others were embarrassed also. That is quite an experience to remember:( I usually sat back against the walls, not at the table with others. That in itself should have told them that I have great difficulty in crowds...but again, my feelings and my personality was over-ruled by the gods of AA who thought they knew what was best for me, better than I knew. I feel quilty, like I am bashing AA and my friends?? I have some very good memories from there, and did learn alot about myself...it did teach me how to look inside and see what was there...for having a personality disorder, it was hard to see there, in fact, I had never looked there:) I hope this hasn't been to open....but I didn't know how else to get out where I was coming from without mentioning the disorders... , I feel so sad reading your story. I think I know how you feel. I too lost virtually my entire social network and many people from AA won't talk to me anymore. It takes time to rebuild, but it's better to lose them, and rebuild from scratch than to buy into a fraud for the sake of having a support system. This group was very valuable to me. The longer I stay away, the more I can see that I made the right decision. don't give up! Apple > > Ok .... > > Thanks for answering, and I will spill what is on my heart... > > I am an alocholic, and was in that life style for more years than I care to > remember, it destroyed my life, over and over. I have been sober 18 months > *today*...and was attending AA everyday, or twice a day, until about 4 weeks > ago. I can not force myself to sit through a whole meeting when I do bother > going now, which is seldom. > > I have many things that AA has given me that I am grateful for. But there > are other things that I do not like AT ALL, and am tired of those things > being forced down my throat and being told I am " not giving back what I have > received " , and I am ungrateful, selfish, self-centered, etc. if I do not to > exactly what they tell me to do. I am not " working my program " etc. > > Where we really started having a run in, was about 4 months ago. I had been > nominated into a service position that I did not want. I am a single mother, > and have to work two jobs frequently. When I told them I did not have time > for daily meetings or this position, I was told that I was on my way to a > relapse, that I needed to make time for daily meetings, that I was not > spiritual..etc.I walked into our service work meeting 4 months ago and > erased my name from the position I held, They all started saying, " hey, you > can't do that " ,and I said, " I did " ....and walked out. > > My heart is really hurting ....it has been my outlet and my strength for the > last 18 months, so now where do I turn? Since I seldom go anymore, I am > treated like I have no sense, and that I am full of it when I do speak... > > I don't want to drink again, I miss my friends, and the whole thing has hurt > me more than I can say. I feel completely lost...no, that is not true. I do > believe in God, and know he is here, but my friends are gone.... > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! 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Guest guest Posted June 28, 1999 Report Share Posted June 28, 1999 At 05:51 PM 6/28/99 -0500, wrote: > >Ok .... > >Thanks for answering, and I will spill what is on my heart... > >I am an alocholic, and was in that life style for more years than I care to I drank my way through my 20's, 'stepped' my way through my 30's, and now with 11 years without a drink, I haven't been to an AA meeting in about a year and a half. I hardly think of myself with the label 'alcoholic' anymore - I just don't drink alcoholic beverages. >Where we really started having a run in, was about 4 months ago. I had been >nominated into a service position that I did not want. I am a single mother, >and have to work two jobs frequently. When I told them I did not have time >for daily meetings or this position, I was told that I was on my way to a >relapse, that I needed to make time for daily meetings, that I was not 'Required' DAILY meetings for someone with over a year without a drink sounds even worse than where I went to meetings. There was the 90 meetings in 90 days thing, then 'several' per week (for most people, about 3), though I voluntarily (?) went to a meeting every day for two years (trying to 'get it', so I could be as outgoing [i. e. arrogant] as those with all that humility). But I'm jumping ahead... >spiritual..etc.I walked into our service work meeting 4 months ago and >erased my name from the position I held, They all started saying, " hey, you >can't do that " ,and I said, " I did " ....and walked out. Congratulations. What I hear them saying (sort of subconsciously) is " You can't leave, because if you do we'll have to nominate and elect someone else to do service work (if I understand this the way things were in the meetings I went to), and that someone else is going to be one of us, and well, we'd hate to do it, but when The Program asks you to do something it is 'suggested' that you do it, so we couldn't say no. " >My heart is really hurting ....it has been my outlet and my strength for the >last 18 months, so now where do I turn? Since I seldom go anymore, I am >treated like I have no sense, and that I am full of it when I do speak... There's a saying about people who are drunk and say or do stupid, crazy, or insulting things - it's not the person talking, it's " the liquor talking " . In a similar way, you can think of this as not these people talking, but rather " it's The Program talking. " These people would not say these things were they not under the influence of " The Program. " >I don't want to drink again, I miss my friends, and the whole thing has hurt >me more than I can say. I feel completely lost...no, that is not true. I do >believe in God, and know he is here, but my friends are gone.... > > As you may have seen at http://www.aadeprogramming.com and elsewhere, there are several 'alternative' sobriety programs. I've been associated with SOS for many years - my first meeting was when I was three years into AA (and intellectually already on my way out of AA). I haven't been going to SOS or any meetings recently (I no longer feel the need for a support group/system to stay sober), but I've been on the SOS email list for the past couple of years. Fair warning - While SOS is 'secular' and theoretically 'has no opinion' on the beliefs of its members, most are atheists and agnostics, though I dare say you will be more comfortable with it than with AA. And also, Pete has mentioned that he was not allowed to subscribe to the list for food addiction (did I get that right?). Pete would fit in SOSmail a lot better than the current troll that's been posting the last few days. :-( I'm sorry about your losing your friends in AA, but my experiences were that they were not quite real friends anyway. Real friends have always been very hard to find for me, but AA'ers tended to be 'my friends' whether I wanted them to be or not. My real best friends in AA actually quit going to meetings before I did. ----- http://listen.to/benbradley ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 Funny you should say that Kayleigh, now that I am put on 'moderated' on the list where I met for dissing AA! P. On Sun, 27 Jun 1999 21:36:08 -0700 Kayleigh S wrote: > Now Pete can be kind of intimidating at times.... :-) > --- > Kayleigh > > Zz > zZ > |\ z _,,,---,,_ > /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ > |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) > > > > > >(Twilight Zone Music) Don't worry , Pete is here, he is among us. He > >is our Higher Power! > > > >Jan > > > >(Hope Pete and know I'm trying to be funny) > > > > hello.. > > > > > >>Hello, > >> > >>I am new here... > >> > >>(looking for Pete so I won't feel as lost) > >> > >> > >> > >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! > >>Try something new and discover more ways to save! > >>http://clickhere./click/381 > >> > >> > >> > >>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > >> - Simplifying group communications > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- > Share what you know. Learn what you don't. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! > Try something new and find out how you could win two round-trip tickets > anywhere in the U.S.! http://clickhere./click/368 > > > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Pete Watts Owner PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm PD Personality Disorders Discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 HOw do I put my pic in the vault? P. On Sun, 27 Jun 1999 21:40:10 -0700 Kayleigh S wrote: > Put it in the vault! > --- > Kayleigh > > Zz > zZ > |\ z _,,,---,,_ > /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ > |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) > > > > > >At 07:02 PM 6/27/99 -0700, you wrote: > >>Yes , we're not sinister at all. Just ordinary fools. My pic is in > >the " vault " on the e-groups web site. How much more foolish can a person > >look? Not much. > >>Joe: I had no idea you wore a monocle. How absolutely suave! > >>Apple > > > >Well I don't _really_ wear a monocle- that is my cyber-self, where I can be > >whatever I want to be. There are, however, a number of important > >similarities between that description and reality. The smoking jacket and > >moncle were props. But I am indeed in my late forties, my hair is greying, > >and I do have a small scar below one eye, but it is so small you'd never > >notice it! And I am an interesting and worldly (whatever that means) > >person. FWIW I have found a picture I took of myself where I don't hate the > >picture and I scanned it today. I can send you a copy by email if you are > >curious! > > > >Joe Berenbaum > >mailto:joe-b@... > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! > >Try something new and find out how you could win two round-trip tickets > >anywhere in the U.S.! http://clickhere./click/368 > > > > > > > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- > Share what you know. Learn what you don't. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! > Try something new and find out how you could win two round-trip tickets > anywhere in the U.S.! http://clickhere./click/368 > > > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Pete Watts Owner PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm PD Personality Disorders Discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 Hey Joe, Well I bet you do a better pic than the photo-booth one I have at present! P. On Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:51:09 +0100 Joe Berenbaum wrote: > Oh no, I get it now- you ALREADy checked the vault and my self-portrait > isn't there. If it is going to be put there that would be up to Apple. > Meanwhile I can also take pictures of any other UK personnel who want to > appear there, if anyone, Pete for instance, wants to come over here for a > cup of tea and some literary allusions. Or would it be illusions? Pete, > come over and be photographed to enhance your net prescence! Pete Watts Owner PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm PD Personality Disorders Discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 ! Lock your doors and change your phone number!! You have a chance to get YOURSELF back!! These people are not your friends!!! Now all you are to them is a way to measure their own pathetic recovery success rate. Go find friends else where!! Go to a book discussion group, go whereever the 12 steps are never ever mentioned. Go to a Fair go to the movies go live your life, not the life they " suggest " that you live. You are a adult woman in your right mind, don't ever give power of that to anyone again ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 Sounds like the old AA constructs at work... negatively labeling non-hyper-devoted members. Well, the longer you stay away, the more ridiculous it will seem. AA has thousands upon thousands of people booby trapped into thinking that something horrible will happen if they leave. Freedom from alcohol has been exchanged for captivity to meetings. It's not healthy! Ever read about Plato's allegory of the cave? The AA members are the cave dwellers. They always face the wall of the cave, all looking in one direction only. Behind them is a fire, and in front of them are their own shadows. If only they'd turn around and see, that the world is not made up of shadows against a wall, but there is fire which produces light, and an exit to the cave in which they dwell, their world would expand wouldn't it... Don't feel guilty about expressing your true feelings! It's very freeing. In fact, one of the most freeing therapeutic experiences I've had was expressing my true feelings about my family, instead of saying " they were so nice, everything was so nice " . I do love them, but in therapy, I broke the " fantasy bond " and the truth has indeed set me free, as it always does. Apple > Apple, > > When I do go, they act like I am not " ok " ....that I have headed toward a > relapse, that I have lost my spirituality, that I am not " good enough " > anymore. > The few that bothered calling when I first started NOT showing up, would ask > me if I had relapsed....and when I said, no, they warned me off all the > dangers of not attending, and that I was fooling myself, and I had to > remember that " my own best thinking got me into AA " . > > The " Are you OK? " when I do go is so sanctimonious that it's artificialness > reeks to high heaven. It is as if, they are doing so " well " compared to > " me " .... > > sigh....I will still attend at times, but part of my healing is taking care > of myself. And if we disagree on what " I " think I need for my healing, so be > it. I am an introvert by nature, it takes alot to get me to open up. If I > had not known Pete from another list, I would still not be talking. > > One of the things that horrified me was, after I received my one-year chip, > I was SO pressured to get up in front of the group and tell " my story " . I > flat could NOT do this. This was the horror of horrors for me, I have > avoidant personality disorder and am also borderline. Me, getting up in > front of a room full of people is NOT part of my eternal make-up. They > refused to believe this in me. One night at birthday night, there were > several minutes left in the meeting. One of the men who was so adamant that > I do " my story " called me to the podium and told me to talk about what AA > had done for me. I made such as ass out of myself, out of TOTAL terror, that > the whole room was uncomfortable and embarrassed for me. > > It was a nightmare.... it was very aparent after that, that I could not do > public speaking...but what is sad here, was *I* knew that and had tried to > explain this before. No one would take my feelings or thoughts on the matter > into hand, until after I had embarrassed myself so much, that others were > embarrassed also. That is quite an experience to remember:( > > I usually sat back against the walls, not at the table with others. That in > itself should have told them that I have great difficulty in crowds...but > again, my feelings and my personality was over-ruled by the gods of AA who > thought they knew what was best for me, better than I knew. > > I feel quilty, like I am bashing AA and my friends?? I have some very good > memories from there, and did learn alot about myself...it did teach me how > to look inside and see what was there...for having a personality disorder, > it was hard to see there, in fact, I had never looked there:) > > I hope this hasn't been to open....but I didn't know how else to get out > where I was coming from without mentioning the disorders... > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 Hi - Good to see your post-you and are a trip! Here I am, all dressed up in a culotte suit, coiffed, Blonde-my stepdaughter tells me I look like Marilyn Monroe, but I think it's closer to Doris Day, although my hairdresser swears I'm a dead ringer for Locklear, But I tip big... I'm wearing pantyhose even, wishing I were barefoot, outside and in the sun!!! Due to the amount of hours my fiance works and a few other events that have occurred lately, he hasn't found the time to hook up one of our computers to the internet. He's a Civil Engineer, Supervisor for skilled trades and I'm a Facilities Analyst for one of the Big 3. So I write when I'm at work. Sometimes I stay late just to do so. One of these days, I'll be able to do this at home. I'm surrounded by papers-move request forms, Shippers, my coffee cup (ever present before noon) and radio's going. I couldn't tell you where my AA literature is-don't care!! And I just turned 44. Can you send me a cookie??? Welcome to our group! Love, wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5000 > Hi , > > Nice to meet you... > > I am 43, live in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, have my computer on the dining > room table also, and sitting here with cut offs and a red and white tank top > on...Oh, and barefoot:)...Texas is nice and warm, so I get to go barefoot > alot. I have my cigarettes right here, and a cup of coffee just about every > minute I am at this computer:) > > There aer numerous books scattered about, mostly about personality > disorders:)...won't go there yet:)... > > And the cookies? Well, they are little tiny chocolate brown bears...not bad, > but have had much better. Oh, and the pens and pencils..oh yes! > > Shucks if I lost 40 pounds, almost half of me would be gone... > > There is also a book of poetry sitting here...and a fly swatter:)...and tons > of AA devotionals that I haven't read in several days:)... > > > > > Hi ; > > Stick a toe in the water as you can. You'll find it's not cold. > > I'm 61 and have my computer on our dining room table, along with > three detective novels a carton of smokes a cup of pens and > pencils and a half eaten box of sweet crispers. > > I'm wearing work pants and no shirt since we've got the air running, > my " Dunlop " is obvious(That's where my belly Dunloped over my > belt) even though I've lost over 40 pounds. Hair is combed straight > back and I haven't shaved yet today. > > Not a very imposing figure as you might imagine. 8-) > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Just Tell Us What You Want... > Respond.com - Shopping the World for You! > http://clickhere./click/390 > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 , check my previous posts in conversation with if you haven't done so already. I went through a lot of what you are going through. I found those people were not my friends and had no clue as to what was best for me. Remember how they would say you had to change your whole life? I had to do it when I left after 15 years of being very much involved. The guilt over leaving has been the hardest for me. I thought I had SO MANY friends. How wrong I was. It was like being one the Titanic-we shared the same experience, but that was it. I was every man for himself in the end, with some betrayal thrown in for good measure. I know I can do better on my own than with that bunch-and I'm banking that you'll do fine as well! You will love not having to waste hours every week at meetings-there are so many other things to do that are more constructive (or not )and fun!! Good luck-we're here if you need us! Love, wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5004 > > Ok .... > > Thanks for answering, and I will spill what is on my heart... > > I am an alocholic, and was in that life style for more years than I care to > remember, it destroyed my life, over and over. I have been sober 18 months > *today*...and was attending AA everyday, or twice a day, until about 4 weeks > ago. I can not force myself to sit through a whole meeting when I do bother > going now, which is seldom. > > I have many things that AA has given me that I am grateful for. But there > are other things that I do not like AT ALL, and am tired of those things > being forced down my throat and being told I am " not giving back what I have > received " , and I am ungrateful, selfish, self-centered, etc. if I do not to > exactly what they tell me to do. I am not " working my program " etc. > > Where we really started having a run in, was about 4 months ago. I had been > nominated into a service position that I did not want. I am a single mother, > and have to work two jobs frequently. When I told them I did not have time > for daily meetings or this position, I was told that I was on my way to a > relapse, that I needed to make time for daily meetings, that I was not > spiritual..etc.I walked into our service work meeting 4 months ago and > erased my name from the position I held, They all started saying, " hey, you > can't do that " ,and I said, " I did " ....and walked out. > > My heart is really hurting ....it has been my outlet and my strength for the > last 18 months, so now where do I turn? Since I seldom go anymore, I am > treated like I have no sense, and that I am full of it when I do speak... > > I don't want to drink again, I miss my friends, and the whole thing has hurt > me more than I can say. I feel completely lost...no, that is not true. I do > believe in God, and know he is here, but my friends are gone.... > > > > > >Hi ; > > > >Yeah me too on the coffee, just forgot to mention the thermos of > >coffee as it's practically an extension of my arm. > > > >My AA books are all boxed up, don't know what I'm going to do > >with them. They are out in the shop. I noticed them on my > >bookshelf out there and took them down and boxed them. I don't > >even recall putting them on that shelf to begin with. > > > >Takes time to get out of the AA habit. I haven't been to a meeting > >in seven years and nearly introduced myself as an alcoholic to a > >customer last week. > > > >Old habits die hard. > > > >Glad you're with us > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Don't let the next virus knock you out! Special Offer to eGroups members > >Install @Backup by June 30th and win a $100 Gift Certificate from Amazon > >.com and @Backup free for a year! http://clickhere./click/363 > > > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 Great analogy, Carol-a candystore...I'll remember that! Wonderful post! wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5005 > Your friends are not your friends if they desert you. We are all outhere > many and many. Connect with people of new passions and enjoy whatever you > like. The world is a candystore and there are so many better things to do > than to go to meetings where they concentrate on what it is that they will > not do. Join night school, take time for yourself long walks, exercise, > volunteer work, movies, astronomy, politics..., whatever. There is a > fabulous world out there. > Carol > > 0At 05:51 PM 6/28/99 -0500, you wrote: > > > >Ok .... > > > >Thanks for answering, and I will spill what is on my heart... > > > >I am an alocholic, and was in that life style for more years than I care to > >remember, it destroyed my life, over and over. I have been sober 18 months > >*today*...and was attending AA everyday, or twice a day, until about 4 weeks > >ago. I can not force myself to sit through a whole meeting when I do bother > >going now, which is seldom. > > > >I have many things that AA has given me that I am grateful for. But there > >are other things that I do not like AT ALL, and am tired of those things > >being forced down my throat and being told I am " not giving back what I have > >received " , and I am ungrateful, selfish, self-centered, etc. if I do not to > >exactly what they tell me to do. I am not " working my program " etc. > > > >Where we really started having a run in, was about 4 months ago. I had been > >nominated into a service position that I did not want. I am a single mother, > >and have to work two jobs frequently. When I told them I did not have time > >for daily meetings or this position, I was told that I was on my way to a > >relapse, that I needed to make time for daily meetings, that I was not > >spiritual..etc.I walked into our service work meeting 4 months ago and > >erased my name from the position I held, They all started saying, " hey, you > >can't do that " ,and I said, " I did " ....and walked out. > > > >My heart is really hurting ....it has been my outlet and my strength for the > >last 18 months, so now where do I turn? Since I seldom go anymore, I am > >treated like I have no sense, and that I am full of it when I do speak... > > > >I don't want to drink again, I miss my friends, and the whole thing has hurt > >me more than I can say. I feel completely lost...no, that is not true. I do > >believe in God, and know he is here, but my friends are gone.... > > > > > > > > > >>Hi ; > >> > >>Yeah me too on the coffee, just forgot to mention the thermos of > >>coffee as it's practically an extension of my arm. > >> > >>My AA books are all boxed up, don't know what I'm going to do > >>with them. They are out in the shop. I noticed them on my > >>bookshelf out there and took them down and boxed them. I don't > >>even recall putting them on that shelf to begin with. > >> > >>Takes time to get out of the AA habit. I haven't been to a meeting > >>in seven years and nearly introduced myself as an alcoholic to a > >>customer last week. > >> > >>Old habits die hard. > >> > >>Glad you're with us > >> > >> > >> > >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>Don't let the next virus knock you out! Special Offer to eGroups members > >>Install @Backup by June 30th and win a $100 Gift Certificate from Amazon > >>.com and @Backup free for a year! http://clickhere./click/363 > > >> > >> > >>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > >> - Simplifying group communications > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! > >Try something new and find out how you could win two round-trip tickets > > >anywhere in the U.S.! http://clickhere./click/368 > > > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > Up With People! > > Visit: Information on recovery alternatives at > Http:\\www.BCRecovernet.org > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 , What if you went to a college and the professor taught you the wrong information and you went out into the world with this false belief? Once your started realizing that this guy had been feeding you a line, you would be angry and you would let people know that the guy was lying or misinformed-and you would try to find a better college and/or professor. At least I would! I really like the idea here that I am now a FREE THINKER. You can belive in GOD or not...I gave up on that belief a while back myself. And another thing I have discovered is that the people who have quit going to meetings and not necessarily get drunk like I used to think-they may have found a better way-like we did. And I feel SO MUCH BETTER introducing myself as a person, and not verbally barfing about being an alcoholic and survivor and intimate details of my life. I feel so much better knowing I can meet new people and present myself as a human being- and have people like me as a person. It takes a while like Apple said, but it's a vast improvement to the 15 years I spent in AA degrading myself! Love, wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5022 > Apple, > > When I do go, they act like I am not " ok " ....that I have headed toward a > relapse, that I have lost my spirituality, that I am not " good enough " > anymore. > The few that bothered calling when I first started NOT showing up, would ask > me if I had relapsed....and when I said, no, they warned me off all the > dangers of not attending, and that I was fooling myself, and I had to > remember that " my own best thinking got me into AA " . > > The " Are you OK? " when I do go is so sanctimonious that it's artificialness > reeks to high heaven. It is as if, they are doing so " well " compared to > " me " .... > > sigh....I will still attend at times, but part of my healing is taking care > of myself. And if we disagree on what " I " think I need for my healing, so be > it. I am an introvert by nature, it takes alot to get me to open up. If I > had not known Pete from another list, I would still not be talking. > > One of the things that horrified me was, after I received my one-year chip, > I was SO pressured to get up in front of the group and tell " my story " . I > flat could NOT do this. This was the horror of horrors for me, I have > avoidant personality disorder and am also borderline. Me, getting up in > front of a room full of people is NOT part of my eternal make-up. They > refused to believe this in me. One night at birthday night, there were > several minutes left in the meeting. One of the men who was so adamant that > I do " my story " called me to the podium and told me to talk about what AA > had done for me. I made such as ass out of myself, out of TOTAL terror, that > the whole room was uncomfortable and embarrassed for me. > > It was a nightmare.... it was very aparent after that, that I could not do > public speaking...but what is sad here, was *I* knew that and had tried to > explain this before. No one would take my feelings or thoughts on the matter > into hand, until after I had embarrassed myself so much, that others were > embarrassed also. That is quite an experience to remember:( > > I usually sat back against the walls, not at the table with others. That in > itself should have told them that I have great difficulty in crowds...but > again, my feelings and my personality was over-ruled by the gods of AA who > thought they knew what was best for me, better than I knew. > > I feel quilty, like I am bashing AA and my friends?? I have some very good > memories from there, and did learn alot about myself...it did teach me how > to look inside and see what was there...for having a personality disorder, > it was hard to see there, in fact, I had never looked there:) > > I hope this hasn't been to open....but I didn't know how else to get out > where I was coming from without mentioning the disorders... > > > > > > > , I feel so sad reading your story. I think I know how you feel. I too > lost virtually my entire social network and many people from AA won't talk > to me anymore. It takes time to rebuild, but it's better to lose them, and > rebuild from scratch than to buy into a fraud for the sake of having a > support system. This group was very valuable to me. The longer I stay away, > the more I can see that I made the right decision. don't give up! > Apple > > > > Ok .... > > > > Thanks for answering, and I will spill what is on my heart... > > > > I am an alocholic, and was in that life style for more years than I care to > > remember, it destroyed my life, over and over. I have been sober 18 months > > *today*...and was attending AA everyday, or twice a day, until about 4 weeks > > ago. I can not force myself to sit through a whole meeting when I do bother > > going now, which is seldom. > > > > I have many things that AA has given me that I am grateful for. But there > > are other things that I do not like AT ALL, and am tired of those things > > being forced down my throat and being told I am " not giving back what I have > > received " , and I am ungrateful, selfish, self-centered, etc. if I do not to > > exactly what they tell me to do. I am not " working my program " etc. > > > > Where we really started having a run in, was about 4 months ago. I had been > > nominated into a service position that I did not want. I am a single mother, > > and have to work two jobs frequently. When I told them I did not have time > > for daily meetings or this position, I was told that I was on my way to a > > relapse, that I needed to make time for daily meetings, that I was not > > spiritual..etc.I walked into our service work meeting 4 months ago and > > erased my name from the position I held, They all started saying, " hey, you > > can't do that " ,and I said, " I did " ....and walked out. > > > > My heart is really hurting ....it has been my outlet and my strength for the > > last 18 months, so now where do I turn? Since I seldom go anymore, I am > > treated like I have no sense, and that I am full of it when I do speak... > > > > I don't want to drink again, I miss my friends, and the whole thing has hurt > > me more than I can say. I feel completely lost...no, that is not true. I do > > believe in God, and know he is here, but my friends are gone.... > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! > Try something new and discover more ways to save! > http://clickhere./click/381 > > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 Hi ; I have PTSD and no tolerance for crowds. When I was in one of those " Circled Chairs " type meetings I'd find myself scooting my chair backwards out of the circle because it felt like any minute I wouldn't be able to breathe for the closeness of it. If I'd go to the bathroom, some idiot would pull my chair back where they wanted it. I finally got to where I'd hit the door if I saw the chairs in a circle. My leaving came all at once. I thought about going back as recently as two years ago. I called a guy I knew and after 5 minutes he started telling me about my 6years of drydrunk and that quickly evaporated the idea of going back. It brought back the memory of guys with very serious mental problems looking down their noses at me. He and I ended our conversation on an unpleasant note. After he criticised me for a while I had to say something. I told him " Well at least I can clean my room and do my laundry " He's 42 and his retired mother does those things for him. I just couldn't allow a guy I consider somewhat less than a man to dump on me. After being away seven years, guys like him can't make me tuck my tail and run anymore. True friends don't try to make me feel bad! If my best friends Larry or Roy think I'm screwing up, they'll tell me so, but not in front of anyone! They do it privately and I accept it because they don't embarrass me in front of other people. Besides which they are really trying to help, not make me feel badly. If I tell one of them I just absolutely can't do something, they accept it, they don't start in lecturing me. But they are my friends, the people in AA mostly weren't capable of being friends because they don't know how. Circumstances forced me into a total break with AA. Not everyone does it that way. I had trouble making new friends because I was always reclusive anyway. The PTSD kept me reclusive, never knowing when I'd have a panic attack and be incapacitated. I no longer have the attacks, but still am somewhat reclusive, just out of habit. Larry and I met in prison and have been friends since and Roy was a neighbor in the last town we lived in. I made acquaintences in AA, none turned out to be friends. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 Hey Bob; You sound like you're doing OK to me. When I started getting damned good and mad at the folks that screwed me over, my family included, I started getting better. My Father had no right to give me concussions or break my bones and AA had no right to emotionally abuse me on top of that. AA taught me I was insane, they lied! They acted like authorities and didn't have a clue. Most of those guys can't even chalk my cue, let alone think of playing the game with me. However, I had to get some separation from them to realize it. It's a real bummer to realize most of the folks in AA I looked up to are really worthless slugs. They all have the same life and it isn't even their life. It comes out of a book, chapter and verse. Harder still is to realize I was just like them for a lot of years. As The Jews say " Never Again! " In some subtle ways AA is even more abusive to intelligent women who want a carreer. AA would have them being baby machines and nothing more. Men, The Program emasculates if we buy in. I think that's why so many young married guys in AA get wierd. They start gambling heavily, seeing prostitutes, 13 stepping etc. My God what a risk to wife and family in this day of HIV! Yet they consider themselves good men, YUUUCK! A good family man just does not do that crap, period. I get to play the lotto this week. I got a free ticket in the mail. How could I afford to gamble, we have bills to pay and things we want to do. Tell you what I feel like. It's good to have a life and have it be my life. Not everyone wants what I want or will go about getting it the way I do, but that's OK they can do it their way. I never did quite fit in AA because I don't take orders well. When someone says " Do this or else " I always immediately think " What's or else? " If Or Else is too tough for me, I'll go along until I can find a way out. I suppose that refusal to truly accept things in AA was why I never stayed sober while in AA. Oh, I could and did say the words. Do Chapter 5 from memory, but I just couldn't quite accept things the AA way. Yet I was convinced it was the only way to stay sober and that I was a failure. AA is one size fits none. I've raved enough(For now) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 Hi ; I mentioned my two best friends and I'd like to tell you a story and all the better cause it's true. I went through a lot of self doubt breaking away from AA. Even though I had stayed sober my first year without it and 5 or 6 months in it brought disaster. I had no internet connection and no modern computer, I did have an old 8088 computer with a 20 meg hard drive MASS storage they called it. Anyway, beside Rose I had only my two friends and Larry lived over a hundred miles away. I called Larry and told him I had broke with AA and was feeling ansy about it. Maybe I should try a different group? Heres what transpired. LARRY " Do you remember in the joint how we laughed at those guys carrying around AA books trying to impress the parole board? " GARY " Yeah what a bunch of fakes " LARRY " Who are you trying to impress? " It threw me for a minute, who was I trying to impress? Folks in AA? They seemed to be the only ones that really cared if I went and a lot of them I didn't particularly like or respect. Why would I have to impress them of all people? Larry never had a substance problem but his 1st wife did and so he knew AA and had a low opinion. I didn't know how low until that day. He went on to ask me what I didn't know that some old drunk could tell me and then we just made catching up conversation. It was the right thing at the time I finally decided that when I went to AA I was saying some things I didn't really believe to please folks I didn't like. In that context it's almost funny, but it wasn't really. Rose and I have visited some of our old AA pals from other towns. After being at Rose's old Alanon Sponsor's house for two hours we left. As we were driving away Rose asked " Was I ever that bad? " I told her no. She used to think this woman was a paragon of wellness. She spent two hours telling us how much trouble she was having with her kids finances, kids 36 and 41 and married and she still doing their checkbooks and trying to make excuses for her 41 year old son's compulsive gambling and trying to cover his debts. Her 18 year sober husband sat in the living room watching porn videos he'd picked up on the road while we talked in the kitchen and they had called and invited us. That was one of the most uneasy times I've had in someone's house. I had to sit on my hands and tongue to keep quiet. The reason he stayed in the living room was not the porn videos. I'll explain. Rose and Marie met in the mental health unit at a hospital. Her husband pretends she was never there. When Rose and she are together the mental health thing might come up and he leaves the room. So he stays away when they are together so he can continue to pretend it never happened. AA has done wonders for him hasn't it? He's one that believes psyche drugs are a relapse and is the president of the AA group there. Marie is regional Alanon rep. Scary isn't it? These folks are not atypical. For me I had to have more than just abstinence and listening to you I believe you feel that way too. I want to LIVE and I couldn't in AA. I tried long and hard, but I just couldn't. I used to think AA's were unintentionally abusive, now I'm not so sure. They had to know that some of the things they did were hurtful and dead wrong, yet they continue to do them. The folks that pushed you into going in front of an audience after you told them you couldn't, were abusing you for their own reasons, they aren't friends. That's just my opinion, they might have meant no harm, still they didn't respect your right to make decisions for yourself. Do keep in mind that nothing I say is holy writ either. The right to reject it belongs to everyone, just as the right to change one's mind belongs to everyone. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 OK - I got a good baseball (softball) story for you. I worked for a large company about 10 years ago in the now famous town of Littleton, Colorado and we had a girls softball team. I'd never played for real in my life, just picnic type games. I'm a damn good hitter but can't field worth a darn but we all had our weaknesses and had a lot of fun. I was scared of catching fly balls and my fella at the time would take me out on Sundays and hit them to me over and over till I got thought I had gotten over it. Well, one evening we had a game and before it started some of us (myself included) had a shot and a beer and then Coach told us to get out on the field for some practice. I'm in left field and he hits a fly ball to me and I freeze or something and it goes between my glove and hand and hits me right in the mouth. Split my lip, blood all over the place. Amazingly, it didn't knock me out and I guess because of the shock I didn't feel any pain either. The team decided I needed to go to the hospital and one of the gals said there's one nearby so she took me. It was called Columbine Hospital and she was worried because she couldn't find the emergency room area. So we walked in the front door. Stopped at the reception desk where a guard was enjoying his Mexican dinner till he saw me with blood all over my face, team uniform and the towel I was dabbing my mouth with. We asked for the emergency room and he said we don't have an emergency room, this is a psychiatric hospital. (Found out later the patients were mostly rich Littleton girls suffering from bulimia and anorexia.) Eventually we got to a REAL hospital, where a dental surgeon wired my front teeth. They were pushed towards the roof of my mouth. Spent the next 5 years getting root canals and crownwork on those teeth. Thank God for dental insurance. Have no desire to ever play again! But I discovered the greatest weight loss program because of it. My teeth were wired for a month and all I could eat was soup and baby food. Lost about 20 pounds. Jan Re: hello.. >Hi Jan; > >Proverbs covers a lot more ground than the preacher. I think The >Preacher hangs together better, has a continuity to it that's sort of >lacking in proverbs. > >I don't believe I've read a bible in the last ten years. Last I >remember for sure, I taught Vacation Bible School in 1981 in Des >Moines. > >Boy was I a sight, out playing softball with the kids and I was in a >body cast. It was fun though. I remember running for a pop fly and >as I reached out, the cast overbalanced me. I caught it, but was I >a mess 8-) You've never lived till you've had infield dust inside a >body cast! I'm scratchin' just remembering it. > >At the time I was about a month out of prison and being with the >kids was great. I hated to see the 9 days end. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Just Tell Us What You Want... >Respond.com - Shopping the World for You! >http://clickhere./click/390 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 OK - I got a good baseball (softball) story for you. I worked for a large company about 10 years ago in the now famous town of Littleton, Colorado and we had a girls softball team. I'd never played for real in my life, just picnic type games. I'm a damn good hitter but can't field worth a darn but we all had our weaknesses and had a lot of fun. I was scared of catching fly balls and my fella at the time would take me out on Sundays and hit them to me over and over till I got thought I had gotten over it. Well, one evening we had a game and before it started some of us (myself included) had a shot and a beer and then Coach told us to get out on the field for some practice. I'm in left field and he hits a fly ball to me and I freeze or something and it goes between my glove and hand and hits me right in the mouth. Split my lip, blood all over the place. Amazingly, it didn't knock me out and I guess because of the shock I didn't feel any pain either. The team decided I needed to go to the hospital and one of the gals said there's one nearby so she took me. It was called Columbine Hospital and she was worried because she couldn't find the emergency room area. So we walked in the front door. Stopped at the reception desk where a guard was enjoying his Mexican dinner till he saw me with blood all over my face, team uniform and the towel I was dabbing my mouth with. We asked for the emergency room and he said we don't have an emergency room, this is a psychiatric hospital. (Found out later the patients were mostly rich Littleton girls suffering from bulimia and anorexia.) Eventually we got to a REAL hospital, where a dental surgeon wired my front teeth. They were pushed towards the roof of my mouth. Spent the next 5 years getting root canals and crownwork on those teeth. Thank God for dental insurance. Have no desire to ever play again! But I discovered the greatest weight loss program because of it. My teeth were wired for a month and all I could eat was soup and baby food. Lost about 20 pounds. Jan Re: hello.. >Hi Jan; > >Proverbs covers a lot more ground than the preacher. I think The >Preacher hangs together better, has a continuity to it that's sort of >lacking in proverbs. > >I don't believe I've read a bible in the last ten years. Last I >remember for sure, I taught Vacation Bible School in 1981 in Des >Moines. > >Boy was I a sight, out playing softball with the kids and I was in a >body cast. It was fun though. I remember running for a pop fly and >as I reached out, the cast overbalanced me. I caught it, but was I >a mess 8-) You've never lived till you've had infield dust inside a >body cast! I'm scratchin' just remembering it. > >At the time I was about a month out of prison and being with the >kids was great. I hated to see the 9 days end. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Just Tell Us What You Want... >Respond.com - Shopping the World for You! >http://clickhere./click/390 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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