RE: a few a-fib treatment questions

[Guest guest]

Rate or rythym control. A difficult decision that requires consideration not

only of age and activity level, but also the nature, frequency and length of

episodes. For example: someone experiencing short, widely spaced, well

tolerated, self terminating episodes which show little risk of going permanent,

may find rate control works well and eliminates the risks and side effects

associated with anti arrythmic drugs. Anti arrythmics, in this situation, can

always be considered should the situation deteriorate. Whereas a similar

individual who suffers long, frequent, poorly tolerated episodes whether self

terminating or requiring cardioversion may prefer to try rythym controlto stay

out of AF in order to avoid the symptons and reduce what they may see as a

relatively high risk of going permanent. In any case as rythym control is not

likely to be 100% effective, continuous rate control medication will probably

have to be considered in tandem, unless episodes are far enough apart to enable

a pill in pocket approach. Stroke risk is another factor that needs to be

considered, and even if anti coagulants are used there is an increase in stroke

risk if you are in AF, so from that point of view, staying in sinus, if you can,

seems like a very good idea. Knowing that you are dependent on anticoagulants or

anti platelet drugs to protect against stroke must increase the psychological

pressure on the individual and decrease quality of life. Altogether not an easy

decision.

Where's that cure?

Dave (Wales)

Re: Re: a few a-fib treatment questions

Hi - I hate to disagree - but I'm going to

Again - I'm no professional and 's opinion is as valid as mine - it's

just that we don't agree - so take your pick.

I've posted this here before but I think it is worth posting again....

from the bottom of

http://www.naspe.org/library/naspe_on_clinical_trials/affirm/

" This trial presents how important new information that will aid physicians

in the treatment of patients with atrial fibrillation. It is very important

to remember the type of patient enrolled, since the results pertain to that

patient and cannot be readily extrapolated to all others. Most important is

the criterion that the treating physicians concluded that their patients

could be adequately managed by either strategy-thus, patients who have

intolerable symptoms of AF even with good rate control, which is a sizeable

group, especially in younger patients, were excluded from this trial. The

data from AFFIRM does NOT pertain to such individuals. Further, AFFIRM

studied older patients, and whether these results would be the same in

younger individuals is not known. " ( N. Prystowsky, M.D.)

Since Bruce is only 38 I'd be very wary about thinking the AFFIRM results

apply to him.

Flecainide was the second drug that was tried on me. (as I understand it,

felcainide or sotalol is the first choice drug in the UK for AF depending on

what doctor you happen to see). It wasn't until I got to my 5th drug that I

tried a rate control only. I have since tried another rhythm control

unsuccessfully and have gone back to rate control. I would dearly like to

try another rhythm control drug. Rate control is the best of a bad world for

me but is nowhere near good enough it slows my heart down unnecessarily when

I'm in NSR and just keeps me out of hospital when I'm in AF (but keeps me in

bed).

As you say - we are all different - I strongly suspect that young

athletic types have an entirely different problem to people who are more

sedentary - it's just that they share the same symptom.

All the best - stay sinus

--

D (33, Leeds, UK)

Paroxysmal AF for 24 hours every 16 days

[Guest guest]

Rate or rythym control. A difficult decision that requires consideration not

only of age and activity level, but also the nature, frequency and length of

episodes. For example: someone experiencing short, widely spaced, well

tolerated, self terminating episodes which show little risk of going permanent,

may find rate control works well and eliminates the risks and side effects

associated with anti arrythmic drugs. Anti arrythmics, in this situation, can

always be considered should the situation deteriorate. Whereas a similar

individual who suffers long, frequent, poorly tolerated episodes whether self

terminating or requiring cardioversion may prefer to try rythym controlto stay

out of AF in order to avoid the symptons and reduce what they may see as a

relatively high risk of going permanent. In any case as rythym control is not

likely to be 100% effective, continuous rate control medication will probably

have to be considered in tandem, unless episodes are far enough apart to enable

a pill in pocket approach. Stroke risk is another factor that needs to be

considered, and even if anti coagulants are used there is an increase in stroke

risk if you are in AF, so from that point of view, staying in sinus, if you can,

seems like a very good idea. Knowing that you are dependent on anticoagulants or

anti platelet drugs to protect against stroke must increase the psychological

pressure on the individual and decrease quality of life. Altogether not an easy

decision.

Where's that cure?

Dave (Wales)

Re: Re: a few a-fib treatment questions

Hi - I hate to disagree - but I'm going to

Again - I'm no professional and 's opinion is as valid as mine - it's

just that we don't agree - so take your pick.

I've posted this here before but I think it is worth posting again....

from the bottom of

http://www.naspe.org/library/naspe_on_clinical_trials/affirm/

" This trial presents how important new information that will aid physicians

in the treatment of patients with atrial fibrillation. It is very important

to remember the type of patient enrolled, since the results pertain to that

patient and cannot be readily extrapolated to all others. Most important is

the criterion that the treating physicians concluded that their patients

could be adequately managed by either strategy-thus, patients who have

intolerable symptoms of AF even with good rate control, which is a sizeable

group, especially in younger patients, were excluded from this trial. The

data from AFFIRM does NOT pertain to such individuals. Further, AFFIRM

studied older patients, and whether these results would be the same in

younger individuals is not known. " ( N. Prystowsky, M.D.)

Since Bruce is only 38 I'd be very wary about thinking the AFFIRM results

apply to him.

Flecainide was the second drug that was tried on me. (as I understand it,

felcainide or sotalol is the first choice drug in the UK for AF depending on

what doctor you happen to see). It wasn't until I got to my 5th drug that I

tried a rate control only. I have since tried another rhythm control

unsuccessfully and have gone back to rate control. I would dearly like to

try another rhythm control drug. Rate control is the best of a bad world for

me but is nowhere near good enough it slows my heart down unnecessarily when

I'm in NSR and just keeps me out of hospital when I'm in AF (but keeps me in

bed).

As you say - we are all different - I strongly suspect that young

athletic types have an entirely different problem to people who are more

sedentary - it's just that they share the same symptom.

All the best - stay sinus

--

D (33, Leeds, UK)

Paroxysmal AF for 24 hours every 16 days

[Guest guest]

Oops: Try rhythm and symptom

Re: Re: a few a-fib treatment questions

Rate or rythym control

[Guest guest]

RE: a few a-fib treatment questions

Nothing definite yet, . My physician believes that I may not be a

candidate as my af episodes are not frequent enough. The truth of the matter

is that if I was leading half a normal life I believe that I'd be in afib a

couple of times a week, Tambocor or no Tambocor. Life is no bundle of joy

trying to avoid the various triggers of my afib. The first thing that I've

done was to renew my passport. Next is to see if my insurance will cover or

part cover the cost. I've someone at this end who will travel with me if

all goes well. Hopefully, sooner or later I'll get sorted out. Is it the

norm to initially contact Prof H yourself? Who decides if you're a

candidate? Lots of questions and of course feeling pretty nervous but I

promise you something, I'll get there. Its great to see so many of the

Group doing just that and this gives me so much courage.

Best wishes to all,

Bernie

>

>Hi Bernie,

>

>Any news yet on an ablation.

>

>best regards

>

> C

>

>

>**********************************************************************

>This message may contain information which is confidential or privileged.

>If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender immediately

>by reply e-mail and delete this message and any attachments

>without retaining a copy.

>

>**********************************************************************

>

>

>

>Web Page - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport

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>

>Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should

be acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

Bernie, may I suggest that you asked Prof. h and see what he says.

Please bear in mind that he gets over a 100 faxs aday so be concise but

informative. I am sure you know how to get a Drs attention.

good luck

C

RE: a few a-fib treatment questions

Nothing definite yet, . My physician believes that I may not be a

candidate as my af episodes are not frequent enough. The truth of the matter

is that if I was leading half a normal life I believe that I'd be in afib a

couple of times a week, Tambocor or no Tambocor. Life is no bundle of joy

trying to avoid the various triggers of my afib. The first thing that I've

done was to renew my passport. Next is to see if my insurance will cover or

part cover the cost. I've someone at this end who will travel with me if

all goes well. Hopefully, sooner or later I'll get sorted out. Is it the

norm to initially contact Prof H yourself? Who decides if you're a

candidate? Lots of questions and of course feeling pretty nervous but I

promise you something, I'll get there. Its great to see so many of the

Group doing just that and this gives me so much courage.

Best wishes to all,

Bernie

>

>Hi Bernie,

>

>Any news yet on an ablation.

>

>best regards

>

> C

>

>

>**********************************************************************

>This message may contain information which is confidential or privileged.

>If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender immediately

>by reply e-mail and delete this message and any attachments

>without retaining a copy.

>

>**********************************************************************

>

>

>

>Web Page - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport

>FAQ -

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport/files/Administrative/faq.htm

>For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

>Unsubscribe: AFIBsupport-unsubscribe

>List owner: AFIBsupport-owner

>For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email,

>send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help

>

>Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should

be acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Who is professsor H?

RE: a few a-fib treatment questions

Nothing definite yet, . My physician believes that I may not be a

candidate as my af episodes are not frequent enough. The truth of the matter

is that if I was leading half a normal life I believe that I'd be in afib a

couple of times a week, Tambocor or no Tambocor. Life is no bundle of joy

trying to avoid the various triggers of my afib. The first thing that I've

done was to renew my passport. Next is to see if my insurance will cover or

part cover the cost. I've someone at this end who will travel with me if

all goes well. Hopefully, sooner or later I'll get sorted out. Is it the

norm to initially contact Prof H yourself? Who decides if you're a

candidate? Lots of questions and of course feeling pretty nervous but I

promise you something, I'll get there. Its great to see so many of the

Group doing just that and this gives me so much courage.

Best wishes to all,

Bernie

>

>Hi Bernie,

>

>Any news yet on an ablation.

>

>best regards

>

> C

>

>

>**********************************************************************

>This message may contain information which is confidential or privileged.

>If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender immediately

>by reply e-mail and delete this message and any attachments

>without retaining a copy.

>

>**********************************************************************

>

>

>

>Web Page - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport

>FAQ -

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport/files/Administrative/faq.htm

>For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

>Unsubscribe: AFIBsupport-unsubscribe

>List owner: AFIBsupport-owner

>For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email,

>send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help

>

>Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should

be acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

>

>

[Guest guest]

, if altenolol does not prevent afib.. what does it do?

Re: a few a-fib treatment questions

In a message dated 7/28/2002 2:21:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

bruceboulanger@... writes:

<< plans to see

another cardio/EP this week – should've been last week, but he was

tied up in surgery last week and had to cancel his office

appointments. Does anyone have relatives that are also in A-fib, and

are both of you being treated with the same medications?

>>

Bruce,

Others in this group are more expert in the area of ablation and other

non-pharmaceutical afib treatments, but I can respond knowledgeably to your

questions about the relation of stress and afib as well as family incidence

of afib. First, I believe your EP has given you misleading information in

saying that stress does not cause afib. To put it more strongly, he is just

plain wrong or misinformed. Stress doesn't always cause afib and it isn't

the only cause of afib but it definitely has been a cause for me, for my

mother, and for my older brother who is in permanent afib. In fact, my first

known incident of afib was caused by an extraordinarily stressful situation

in which I was bitten by a strange dog whose owner then appeared to be

planning to attack me. As I jumped on my bicycle to escape and peddled

frantically home, I was aware that my heart felt as if it were about to burst

from my chest, the now familiar sensation that many describe as being similar

to a mammal or fish flopping around in one's chest. That incident was

nineteen years ago, and the afib episode triggered by that wildly

melodramatic event lasted about 24 hours. Since then I have had numerous

other afib episodes triggered by stressful situations, although thankfully

none have been as threatening or dramatic as that first one. Obviously

stress does not trigger afib in everyone, but in one prone to afib it can

definitely be a trigger. Unfortunately the kind of intense athletic activity

in which you have engaged can also be a precursor of afib, which is extremely

common among runners and other athletes. The kind of afib triggered by

stress or physical exertion is called adrenergic afib.

Another type of afib is called vagal because it is triggered by increasing

tone of the vagus nerve, a large nerve which controls both digestion and

heart beat. The process of increasing tone of the vagus nerve is called

vasovagal stimulation. A vagal afib sufferer finds that afib is triggered by

eating the wrong foods, eating too much or too fast, drinking cold beverages

too fast, caffeine, alcohol, and various postures. I am afflicted with both

adrenergic and vagal afib, as many of us are, although some individuals

experience just vagal or just adrenergic.

To answer your question about genetic connections, I would say that my heart

frequently responds to stress by converting to afib because afib is genetic

in my family. Every member of my immediate family, except one of my brothers

who coincidentally is a physician, has suffered afib. My mother was in afib

when she died and probably was a paroxysmal afib sufferer most of her life.

My father also suffered afib among other more serious heart disease problems,

and had to be cardioverted to restore sinus rhythm. My other older brother,

not the doctor, has been in permanent afib for at least twenty to thirty

years but wasn't diagnosed until thirteen years ago. I was not diagnosed

until six years ago when I took myself to my doctor's office during an

episode and had an ECG. (I have never gone to an emergency room for afib

because I always felt that I would recover more effectively in the peace and

quiet of my own home.) Both my brother and I have been taking Atenolol for

the past thirteen years, and it has controlled our afib to the point that we

both live absolutely normal and probably unusually active, busy lives. My

brother also takes Digoxin, which is generally considered appropriate for one

in permanent afib but not for one like me who has paroxysmal (intermittent)

afib. I also take Verapamil, a calcium channel blocker, in addition to the

Atenolol.

I don't know your complete medical situation, of course, but on the surface

it would appear that your EP has jumped into a quite heavy duty medication

for your initial treatment. However, I know that some in this group are

doing very well with Tambocor. My EP told me that he will try Tambocor

(Flecainide) with me only if Atenolol and Verapamil fail in the future to

control afib. However, I am presently in a period of " remission, " having

experienced only 30 hours of afib in the past 115 days. This represents a

dramatic improvement over my afib incidence during last January and February

when I was in afib for 32 days of the two months. I attribute my current

long sinus run to elimination of dairy products from my diet. If you do not

have vagal afib, such a strategy would not make any difference for you, but

at this point you probably don't know if you also have vagal afib.

Atenolol has served me well over the past thirteen years. My brother thinks

and I am reasonably sure that I would be in permanent afib by now as my

brother was by my current age, if it were not for the Atenolol treatment.

Atenolol will not prevent afib episodes, but it does offer safe, thorough

control of symptoms to many people. As my EP said, all to the medications

are only 60-70 percent effective anyway, and the trick is to find the

medication that works for you. Everybody responds differently to each

medication because afib is very unpredictable. I think that you are very

wise to get a second opinion as you are planning to do. If the new doctor

tells you that stress doesn't cause afib, a third opinion is definitely in

order! Do your research and don't jump into anything. Afib is not a

killer, so you have time to consider your options. I don't remember whether

you are also taking Coumadin, but it would be a good idea to ask about that

if you are not because Coumadin will protect you from a stroke, the only real

possible danger from afib. If you don't understand about that, just ask and

we will be glad to explain. Good luck and feel free to ask questions because

this group is filled with experienced, knowledgeable, and helpful people.

in sinus in Seattle (67th day)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/30/2002 4:15:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

kenshireen@... writes:

<< , if altenolol does not prevent afib.. what does it do? >>

Ken,

I think Atenolol does prevent afib to some degree because after 13 years on

Atenolol I am still not in permanent afib whereas my older brother, who never

took Atenolol or any other drug until he was about my current age, was in

permanent afib by the time he was my current age. (Of course, he did some

things that I haven't done, like drinking and smoking.) He has suggested

that the Atenolol has helped to keep me out of permanent afib, and I believe

that is true along with other measures I have taken, such as elimination of

dairy products. In fact at the moment my afib episodes are decreasing,

contrary to the popular maxim " afib begets more afib. " Atenolol reduces

heart rate by blocking the effect of adrenaline on the heart, and that can

have the effect of controlling rhythm too in someone whose afib episodes are

usually preceded by sinus tachycardia as mine are. However, in reality

Atenolol may have as much effect on controlling rhythm with less danger as

some of the drugs like Sotalol, which is specifically oriented toward rhythm

control but with some rate control also. The fact is that many people taking

Sotalol and some of the other rhythm control drugs frequently convert to afib

and, therefore, find that the need to take Coumadin continues. I know that

many people in this group continue to take Coumadin along with rhythm control

drugs because all of the drugs fail at times to prevent afib in some

individuals. Taking a rhythm control drug does not necessarily eliminate the

need for Coumadin.

To answer your question about permanent afib, I can use my older brother as

an example because he is in it. Before he was diagnosed and started

medication, his resting pulse rate was 160 - 180 beats per minute and, of

course, it was highly erratic.and so intense that the doctor diagnosed afib

from the door of the examining room because he could see my brother's jugular

vein pulsating frantically. The doctor conjectured that my brother had been

in permanent afib for a long time at that point and, therefore, felt there

was no point in trying to restore rhythm. This means that the doctor thought

my brother had been in afib all the time with no sinus rhythm at all for at

least twenty years. My brother thinks this is true because he can remember

afib symptoms all the way back to his teenage yeas. The doctor prescribed

Atenolol and Digoxin for rate control. After beginning the meds, my

brother's pulse remained erratic but decreased to a resting pulse of 80-90,

which he can live with. He has never taken Coumadin, and only started taking

an aspirin every day about four years ago. However, he is extremely active

and probably his blood is flowing so quickly that a clot never has a chance

to form. :-) Witnessing his vigorous physical activity, one would never

suspect that he is in afib.

Although I have been on Atenolol for 13 years and have experienced afib for

nineteen years, I have only taken Coumadin for the past three years but have

never had a stroke in the 16 years of afib without Coumadin. When my doctor

initially prescribed Coumadin for me, it was with the idea of preparing for a

cardioversion during one of my longer afib sessions. Then his plan was to

put me on Sotalol after I was cardioverted, but I converted spontaneously

before it was time for the cardioversion. Because my afib episodes increased

in frequency at that time, he decided to leave me on Coumadin even though I

had not demonstrated a tendency toward stroke during the preceding sixteen

years of afib without Coumadin. I am happy to take Coumadin for the peace of

mind it offers and find it not to be a problem at all. I have had several

injuries and bad falls while on Coumadin but have had no problem with

bleeding. If I were to take a rhythm control drug like Sotalol or

Flecainide, I would still want to take Coumadin because those rhythm control

drugs can fail. My electrophysiologist says that all of the drugs are 60-70

percent effective. That means that 30-40 percent of the time one could be

susceptible to stroke. I think Ellen, for example, continues to take

Coumadin even though Dofetilide has proven almost 100 percent effective for

her. I would follow her example because I don't mind afib that much, but I

certainly would mind a stroke.

I hope this answers your questions, Ken. Feel free to ask more. I'm not an

expert, but I have had more experience with afib than I would care to have

had.

in sinus in Seattle (69th day)

[Guest guest]

> Who is professsor H?

Dr. Haussgierre (I know that isn't the correct spelling,) in France,

one of the best docs for doing ablations.

[Guest guest]

Bernie,

From what you describe, I think several of the leading EPs would

actually class you as " ready " for an ablation. One criterion is " is the

condition affecting your life? " , which seems definitely Yes for you.

The PVI has a preventive side to it - there is even some talk that a PVI

should be the first line of defence against AF. Don't forget that for

many, not treating it, (even if you are having success with avoiding

triggers), can lead to remodelling which will then make it less

ablatable. All EPs agree that ablations have a lower success rate once

the AF has gone chronic.

Also, with the PVI the EP doesn't need to necessarily know exactly where

the foci are (though it helps). The isolation of the pulmonary veins

can be done as a much more " empirical " method. (This is from Prof H's

paper Jan of this year - I can send you if you want (pdf file).)

***** As I said in a posting a little while ago, I believe that when you

are getting an opinion as to suitability for an ablation, that opinion

*must* come from an EP such as Dr Morady or Prof Haissaguerre who do

them as a matter of routine, not from an EP or Cardio who thinks they

are still " experimental " , or is not up with the latest developments !!!

If I had done this I would have had my ablation a year earlier and

avoided a year's lost income, not to mention hassle and depression.

Hope this helps.

Vicky

on Tue, 30 Jul 2002 at 20:43:07, Bernie Barret

wrote :

>

> RE: a few a-fib treatment questions

>

>

>Nothing definite yet, . My physician believes that I may not be a

>candidate as my af episodes are not frequent enough. The truth of the matter

>is that if I was leading half a normal life I believe that I'd be in afib a

>couple of times a week, Tambocor or no Tambocor. Life is no bundle of joy

>trying to avoid the various triggers of my afib. The first thing that I've

>done was to renew my passport. Next is to see if my insurance will cover or

>part cover the cost. I've someone at this end who will travel with me if

>all goes well. Hopefully, sooner or later I'll get sorted out. Is it the

>norm to initially contact Prof H yourself? Who decides if you're a

>candidate? Lots of questions and of course feeling pretty nervous but I

>promise you something, I'll get there. Its great to see so many of the

>Group doing just that and this gives me so much courage.

>Best wishes to all,

>Bernie

[Guest guest]

on Tue, 30 Jul 2002 at 19:02:32, ken schwartz

wrote :

>Who is professsor H?

Prof Haissaguerre, of the Hopital Haut-Leveque in Bordeaux, who more or

less invented the Pulmonary Vein Isolation ablation (and the catheter

that enables it).

Best of health to all,

Vicky

[Guest guest]

Hi Prof Hassigurre, and Dr P Jais they are in Bordueux, we have a lot to thank

them for as they invented the Lasso Catether and the PV abaltion.

john C

> Re: a few a-fib treatment questions

>

> Who is professsor H?

> RE: a few a-fib treatment questions

>

>

> Nothing definite yet, . My physician believes that I may not be a

> candidate as my af episodes are not frequent enough. The truth of the matter

> is that if I was leading half a normal life I believe that I'd be in afib a

> couple of times a week, Tambocor or no Tambocor. Life is no bundle of joy

> trying to avoid the various triggers of my afib. The first thing that I've

> done was to renew my passport. Next is to see if my insurance will cover or

> part cover the cost. I've someone at this end who will travel with me if

> all goes well. Hopefully, sooner or later I'll get sorted out. Is it the

> norm to initially contact Prof H yourself? Who decides if you're a

> candidate? Lots of questions and of course feeling pretty nervous but I

> promise you something, I'll get there. Its great to see so many of the

> Group doing just that and this gives me so much courage.

> Best wishes to all,

> Bernie

>

>

> >

> >Hi Bernie,

> >

> >Any news yet on an ablation.

> >

> >best regards

> >

> > C

> >

> >

> >**********************************************************************

> >This message may contain information which is confidential or privileged.

> >If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender immediately

> >by reply e-mail and delete this message and any attachments

> >without retaining a copy.

> >

> >**********************************************************************

> >

> >

> >

> >Web Page - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport

> >FAQ -

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport/files/Administrative/faq.htm

> >For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

> >Unsubscribe: AFIBsupport-unsubscribe

> >List owner: AFIBsupport-owner

> >For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email,

> >send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help

> >

> >Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should

> be acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

How exciting to know there's three of us who went to France for our

ablations. Who's the third? At the time everyone treated my like I was a

nut case going overseas for treatment.

I had had three failed ablations in the U.S. and had to quit work

because sometimes after an A-Fib attack, my heart would stop beating.

I'd get dizzy and nearly pass out. This is about four years ago. My wife

got me on the Internet. The first article I found talked about Dr.

Haissaguerre's work. After about a half year of research and living in

medical school libraries, it seemed to me that the French Bordeaux group

was light years ahead of everyone else. I wrote and called Dr.

Haissaguerre and asked him to treat me. It wasn't easy. They hadn't

discovered PV Potentials yet. When I got to Bordeaux, my A-Fib symptoms

disappeared---like taking your car to the garage. I had to have two

eight hour ablations, but I haven't had a symptom since. At 61-years-old

I'm an enthusiastic sprinter in Master's Track---100 meters, 200 meters.

My main event is the 400 meters but I'm not in good enough shape yet to

do it competitively. I also do some distance running with my limit being

the 5K.

I wrote a diary-like account of my experience in France for a Doctor

friend. It is attached, though by now it's really out of date compared

to today's technology.

From today's overcast Malibu, CA---the runner's paradise.

Codling, wrote:

>

> Hi Steve, now you have your mails sorted out a very big welcome to the

> group.

>

> I think we have something in common that we have both had ablations

> and I believe you had your in France as I did . there are three of us

> in this club at the moment.

>

> I would be very happy if you would post you history and how you came

> to France from the USA.

>

> Best regards

>

> john C Sunny and hot Hornchurch. its 30+c at the moment.

>

>

> **********************************************************************

> This message may contain information which is confidential or privileged.

> If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender

> immediately

> by reply e-mail and delete this message and any attachments

> without retaining a copy.

>

> **********************************************************************

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Steve,

Interesting story. I too live in So. Ca. I was wondering which EP's that you

worked with out here.

Dwight

<<Dear ,

How exciting to know there's three of us who went to France for our

ablations. Who's the third? At the time everyone treated my like I was a

nut case going overseas for treatment.

I had had three failed ablations in the U.S. and had to quit work

because sometimes after an A-Fib attack, my heart would stop beating.

I'd get dizzy and nearly pass out. This is about four years ago. My wife

got me on the Internet. The first article I found talked about Dr.

Haissaguerre's work. After about a half year of research and living in

medical school libraries, it seemed to me that the French Bordeaux group

was light years ahead of everyone else. I wrote and called Dr.

Haissaguerre and asked him to treat me. It wasn't easy. They hadn't

discovered PV Potentials yet. When I got to Bordeaux, my A-Fib symptoms

disappeared---like taking your car to the garage. I had to have two

eight hour ablations, but I haven't had a symptom since. At 61-years-old

I'm an enthusiastic sprinter in Master's Track---100 meters, 200 meters.

My main event is the 400 meters but I'm not in good enough shape yet to

do it competitively. I also do some distance running with my limit being

the 5K.

I wrote a diary-like account of my experience in France for a Doctor

friend. It is attached, though by now it's really out of date compared

to today's technology.

From today's overcast Malibu, CA---the runner's paradise.>>

[Guest guest]

Steve,

Interesting story. I too live in So. Ca. I was wondering which EP's that you

worked with out here.

Dwight

<<Dear ,

How exciting to know there's three of us who went to France for our

ablations. Who's the third? At the time everyone treated my like I was a

nut case going overseas for treatment.

I had had three failed ablations in the U.S. and had to quit work

because sometimes after an A-Fib attack, my heart would stop beating.

I'd get dizzy and nearly pass out. This is about four years ago. My wife

got me on the Internet. The first article I found talked about Dr.

Haissaguerre's work. After about a half year of research and living in

medical school libraries, it seemed to me that the French Bordeaux group

was light years ahead of everyone else. I wrote and called Dr.

Haissaguerre and asked him to treat me. It wasn't easy. They hadn't

discovered PV Potentials yet. When I got to Bordeaux, my A-Fib symptoms

disappeared---like taking your car to the garage. I had to have two

eight hour ablations, but I haven't had a symptom since. At 61-years-old

I'm an enthusiastic sprinter in Master's Track---100 meters, 200 meters.

My main event is the 400 meters but I'm not in good enough shape yet to

do it competitively. I also do some distance running with my limit being

the 5K.

I wrote a diary-like account of my experience in France for a Doctor

friend. It is attached, though by now it's really out of date compared

to today's technology.

From today's overcast Malibu, CA---the runner's paradise.>>

[Guest guest]

My insurance covered everything but the travel costs to France. Call

your insurance to get preapproved. Though this was over four years ago,

my total costs for nearly two weeks in the hospital at Bordeaux

including two major eight hour procedures and other tests was only

$8,500. Since Dr. Haissaguerre's group is the world's leading researcher

in A-Fib today, your insurance probably will approve it (it's also a

heck of a lot cheaper than in the U.S.).

Bernie Barret wrote:

>

> RE: a few a-fib treatment questions

>

>

> Nothing definite yet, . My physician believes that I may not be a

> candidate as my af episodes are not frequent enough. The truth of the

> matter

> is that if I was leading half a normal life I believe that I'd be in

> afib a

> couple of times a week, Tambocor or no Tambocor. Life is no bundle of joy

> trying to avoid the various triggers of my afib. The first thing that

> I've

> done was to renew my passport. Next is to see if my insurance will

> cover or

> part cover the cost. I've someone at this end who will travel with me if

> all goes well. Hopefully, sooner or later I'll get sorted out. Is it the

> norm to initially contact Prof H yourself? Who decides if you're a

> candidate? Lots of questions and of course feeling pretty nervous but I

> promise you something, I'll get there. Its great to see so many of the

> Group doing just that and this gives me so much courage.

> Best wishes to all,

> Bernie

>

>

> >

> >Hi Bernie,

> >

> >Any news yet on an ablation.

> >

> >best regards

> >

> > C

> >

> >

> >**********************************************************************

> >This message may contain information which is confidential or privileged.

> >If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender

> immediately

> >by reply e-mail and delete this message and any attachments

> >without retaining a copy.

> >

> >**********************************************************************

> >

> >

> >

> >Web Page - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport

> >FAQ -

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport/files/Administrative/faq.htm

> >For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

> >Unsubscribe: AFIBsupport-unsubscribe

> >List owner: AFIBsupport-owner

> >For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email,

> >send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help

> >

> >Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should

> be acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

My insurance covered everything but the travel costs to France. Call

your insurance to get preapproved. Though this was over four years ago,

my total costs for nearly two weeks in the hospital at Bordeaux

including two major eight hour procedures and other tests was only

$8,500. Since Dr. Haissaguerre's group is the world's leading researcher

in A-Fib today, your insurance probably will approve it (it's also a

heck of a lot cheaper than in the U.S.).

Bernie Barret wrote:

>

> RE: a few a-fib treatment questions

>

>

> Nothing definite yet, . My physician believes that I may not be a

> candidate as my af episodes are not frequent enough. The truth of the

> matter

> is that if I was leading half a normal life I believe that I'd be in

> afib a

> couple of times a week, Tambocor or no Tambocor. Life is no bundle of joy

> trying to avoid the various triggers of my afib. The first thing that

> I've

> done was to renew my passport. Next is to see if my insurance will

> cover or

> part cover the cost. I've someone at this end who will travel with me if

> all goes well. Hopefully, sooner or later I'll get sorted out. Is it the

> norm to initially contact Prof H yourself? Who decides if you're a

> candidate? Lots of questions and of course feeling pretty nervous but I

> promise you something, I'll get there. Its great to see so many of the

> Group doing just that and this gives me so much courage.

> Best wishes to all,

> Bernie

>

>

> >

> >Hi Bernie,

> >

> >Any news yet on an ablation.

> >

> >best regards

> >

> > C

> >

> >

> >**********************************************************************

> >This message may contain information which is confidential or privileged.

> >If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender

> immediately

> >by reply e-mail and delete this message and any attachments

> >without retaining a copy.

> >

> >**********************************************************************

> >

> >

> >

> >Web Page - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport

> >FAQ -

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport/files/Administrative/faq.htm

> >For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

> >Unsubscribe: AFIBsupport-unsubscribe

> >List owner: AFIBsupport-owner

> >For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email,

> >send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help

> >

> >Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should

> be acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

RE: a few a-fib treatment questions

>>

>>

>>Nothing definite yet, . My physician believes that I may not be a

>>candidate as my af episodes are not frequent enough. The truth of the

matter

>>is that if I was leading half a normal life I believe that I'd be in afib

a

>>couple of times a week, Tambocor or no Tambocor. Life is no bundle of joy

>>trying to avoid the various triggers of my afib. The first thing that

I've

>>done was to renew my passport. Next is to see if my insurance will cover

or

>>part cover the cost. I've someone at this end who will travel with me if

>>all goes well. Hopefully, sooner or later I'll get sorted out. Is it the

>>norm to initially contact Prof H yourself? Who decides if you're a

>>candidate? Lots of questions and of course feeling pretty nervous but I

>>promise you something, I'll get there. Its great to see so many of the

>>Group doing just that and this gives me so much courage.

>>Best wishes to all,

>>Bernie

>

>

>Web Page - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport

>FAQ -

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport/files/Administrative/faq.htm

>For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

>Unsubscribe: AFIBsupport-unsubscribe

>List owner: AFIBsupport-owner

>For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email,

>send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help

>

>Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should

be acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

>

>

[Guest guest]

RE: a few a-fib treatment questions

>>

>>

>>Nothing definite yet, . My physician believes that I may not be a

>>candidate as my af episodes are not frequent enough. The truth of the

matter

>>is that if I was leading half a normal life I believe that I'd be in afib

a

>>couple of times a week, Tambocor or no Tambocor. Life is no bundle of joy

>>trying to avoid the various triggers of my afib. The first thing that

I've

>>done was to renew my passport. Next is to see if my insurance will cover

or

>>part cover the cost. I've someone at this end who will travel with me if

>>all goes well. Hopefully, sooner or later I'll get sorted out. Is it the

>>norm to initially contact Prof H yourself? Who decides if you're a

>>candidate? Lots of questions and of course feeling pretty nervous but I

>>promise you something, I'll get there. Its great to see so many of the

>>Group doing just that and this gives me so much courage.

>>Best wishes to all,

>>Bernie

>

>

>Web Page - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport

>FAQ -

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport/files/Administrative/faq.htm

>For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

>Unsubscribe: AFIBsupport-unsubscribe

>List owner: AFIBsupport-owner

>For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email,

>send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help

>

>Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should

be acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

>

>

[Guest guest]

RE: a few a-fib treatment questions

>

>

>Nothing definite yet, . My physician believes that I may not be a

>candidate as my af episodes are not frequent enough. The truth of the

matter

>is that if I was leading half a normal life I believe that I'd be in afib a

>couple of times a week, Tambocor or no Tambocor. Life is no bundle of joy

>trying to avoid the various triggers of my afib. The first thing that I've

>done was to renew my passport. Next is to see if my insurance will cover

or

>part cover the cost. I've someone at this end who will travel with me if

>all goes well. Hopefully, sooner or later I'll get sorted out. Is it the

>norm to initially contact Prof H yourself? Who decides if you're a

>candidate? Lots of questions and of course feeling pretty nervous but I

>promise you something, I'll get there. Its great to see so many of the

>Group doing just that and this gives me so much courage.

>Best wishes to all,

>Bernie

>

>

>>

>>Hi Bernie,

>>

>>Any news yet on an ablation.

>>

>>best regards

>>

>> C

>>

>>

>>**********************************************************************

>>This message may contain information which is confidential or privileged.

>>If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender

immediately

>>by reply e-mail and delete this message and any attachments

>>without retaining a copy.

>>

>>**********************************************************************

>>

>>

>>

>>Web Page - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport

>>FAQ -

>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport/files/Administrative/faq.htm

>>For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

>>Unsubscribe: AFIBsupport-unsubscribe

>>List owner: AFIBsupport-owner

>>For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email,

>>send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help

>>

>>Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should

>be acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

RE: a few a-fib treatment questions

>

>

>Nothing definite yet, . My physician believes that I may not be a

>candidate as my af episodes are not frequent enough. The truth of the

matter

>is that if I was leading half a normal life I believe that I'd be in afib a

>couple of times a week, Tambocor or no Tambocor. Life is no bundle of joy

>trying to avoid the various triggers of my afib. The first thing that I've

>done was to renew my passport. Next is to see if my insurance will cover

or

>part cover the cost. I've someone at this end who will travel with me if

>all goes well. Hopefully, sooner or later I'll get sorted out. Is it the

>norm to initially contact Prof H yourself? Who decides if you're a

>candidate? Lots of questions and of course feeling pretty nervous but I

>promise you something, I'll get there. Its great to see so many of the

>Group doing just that and this gives me so much courage.

>Best wishes to all,

>Bernie

>

>

>>

>>Hi Bernie,

>>

>>Any news yet on an ablation.

>>

>>best regards

>>

>> C

>>

>>

>>**********************************************************************

>>This message may contain information which is confidential or privileged.

>>If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender

immediately

>>by reply e-mail and delete this message and any attachments

>>without retaining a copy.

>>

>>**********************************************************************

>>

>>

>>

>>Web Page - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport

>>FAQ -

>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport/files/Administrative/faq.htm

>>For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

>>Unsubscribe: AFIBsupport-unsubscribe

>>List owner: AFIBsupport-owner

>>For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email,

>>send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help

>>

>>Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should

>be acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Bernie contact me off line for this one.

C

RE: a few a-fib treatment questions

>

>

>Nothing definite yet, . My physician believes that I may not be a

>candidate as my af episodes are not frequent enough. The truth of the

matter

>is that if I was leading half a normal life I believe that I'd be in afib a

>couple of times a week, Tambocor or no Tambocor. Life is no bundle of joy

>trying to avoid the various triggers of my afib. The first thing that I've

>done was to renew my passport. Next is to see if my insurance will cover

or

>part cover the cost. I've someone at this end who will travel with me if

>all goes well. Hopefully, sooner or later I'll get sorted out. Is it the

>norm to initially contact Prof H yourself? Who decides if you're a

>candidate? Lots of questions and of course feeling pretty nervous but I

>promise you something, I'll get there. Its great to see so many of the

>Group doing just that and this gives me so much courage.

>Best wishes to all,

>Bernie

>

>

>>

>>Hi Bernie,

>>

>>Any news yet on an ablation.

>>

>>best regards

>>

>> C

>>

>>

>>**********************************************************************

>>This message may contain information which is confidential or privileged.

>>If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender

immediately

>>by reply e-mail and delete this message and any attachments

>>without retaining a copy.

>>

>>**********************************************************************

>>

>>

>>

>>Web Page - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport

>>FAQ -

>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport/files/Administrative/faq.htm

>>For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

>>Unsubscribe: AFIBsupport-unsubscribe

>>List owner: AFIBsupport-owner

>>For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email,

>>send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help

>>

>>Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should

>be acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Bernie contact me off line for this one.

C

RE: a few a-fib treatment questions

>

>

>Nothing definite yet, . My physician believes that I may not be a

>candidate as my af episodes are not frequent enough. The truth of the

matter

>is that if I was leading half a normal life I believe that I'd be in afib a

>couple of times a week, Tambocor or no Tambocor. Life is no bundle of joy

>trying to avoid the various triggers of my afib. The first thing that I've

>done was to renew my passport. Next is to see if my insurance will cover

or

>part cover the cost. I've someone at this end who will travel with me if

>all goes well. Hopefully, sooner or later I'll get sorted out. Is it the

>norm to initially contact Prof H yourself? Who decides if you're a

>candidate? Lots of questions and of course feeling pretty nervous but I

>promise you something, I'll get there. Its great to see so many of the

>Group doing just that and this gives me so much courage.

>Best wishes to all,

>Bernie

>

>

>>

>>Hi Bernie,

>>

>>Any news yet on an ablation.

>>

>>best regards

>>

>> C

>>

>>

>>**********************************************************************

>>This message may contain information which is confidential or privileged.

>>If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender

immediately

>>by reply e-mail and delete this message and any attachments

>>without retaining a copy.

>>

>>**********************************************************************

>>

>>

>>

>>Web Page - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport

>>FAQ -

>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport/files/Administrative/faq.htm

>>For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

>>Unsubscribe: AFIBsupport-unsubscribe

>>List owner: AFIBsupport-owner

>>For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email,

>>send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help

>>

>>Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should

>be acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

on Wed, 31 Jul 2002 at 22:38:57, Bernie Barret

wrote :

>The first three years of my AF weren't so bad at all. I got by

>without medication and had one or two bouts a year. Five years ago all this

>ended. My AF really became a huge problem. Because I lasted only two years

>on Disopyrimide (150 mgms bd) I feel sure Tambocor ( 250mgms daily) will

>become ineffective in less time. Beta Blockers are out. We just don't agree,

>however hard I try

Sounds SO like my own story. After a similar history, mine just flared

up uncontrollably about a year ago this week (!)

One option that worked for me in some measure was Dofetilide - you need

to find a Cardio that can prescribe it (i.e. is on Pfizer's list)

I avoided amiodarone since I just felt it wasn't for me and I wasn't

sure how its monitoring could ever be good enough when you hear stories

like C and D's.

Best of health to all,

Vicky

[Guest guest]

on Wed, 31 Jul 2002 at 22:38:57, Bernie Barret

wrote :

>The first three years of my AF weren't so bad at all. I got by

>without medication and had one or two bouts a year. Five years ago all this

>ended. My AF really became a huge problem. Because I lasted only two years

>on Disopyrimide (150 mgms bd) I feel sure Tambocor ( 250mgms daily) will

>become ineffective in less time. Beta Blockers are out. We just don't agree,

>however hard I try

Sounds SO like my own story. After a similar history, mine just flared

up uncontrollably about a year ago this week (!)

One option that worked for me in some measure was Dofetilide - you need

to find a Cardio that can prescribe it (i.e. is on Pfizer's list)

I avoided amiodarone since I just felt it wasn't for me and I wasn't

sure how its monitoring could ever be good enough when you hear stories

like C and D's.

Best of health to all,

Vicky