Re: Feeling isolated... another flea.

[Guest guest]

hello fellow aussie!

i have had many periods in my life when i have felt isolated and alone. even as

recently as the summer just passed.

it seems to come on mostly when i have family/nada troubles and i REALLY need

someone to talk to adn help. sometimes it just feels that i have no-one can

really be myself with when i need it most. funny that. the feeling that no-one

else really understands about bpd and how it impacts on your entire life,

forever (or so it seems)...

i do recall reading once that most adults do not in fact have great gangs of

wonderfully close friends in the way that we did during high school or

throughout our 20s. apparently most of our adult friends are acquaintances

(through work, parenting, hobbies etc), and that true close friends are few and

far between. so you are not alone even though you are alone!

it is really hard to put yourself on the line in terms of friendships, asking

people over, dropping by etc. for the most part i have found that it does pay

off though.

hang in there oh lonely one

your friend

bridget

>

> Making friends and developing more intimate friendships is something that I

really struggle with... I guess I have some of the black-and-white thinking

habitually, because I have no trouble throwing myself into romantic

relationships (they're more all-or-nothing for me) - but friendship - I haven't

had a really close friend for years. I do have friends - but noone who will just

drop by, no-one who i will call without really thinking about what I am going to

say. I feel like it has to be preorganised and formal, otherwise maybe I'm

imposing.

>

> It's paradoxical. Anyone I really like and respect, I want to hide from. I

don't want them to know that I want their friendship, because then they might

discover that I don't have many close friends. And that looks so silly written

down!

>

> I don't know how to throw away this compulsion that I have to not be " found

out " .

>

> If anyone can relate or has any advice... I'd like to hear it. I'm tired of

feeling so alone.

>

[Guest guest]

hi!

It's true for me as well, it crops up when I feel like I really need people...

it's also when I feel the compulsion to hide away, like I'm preempting others

not understanding. Little things that people say that they can't possibly

realise mean something different for me, like if they see a photo of nada they

might say " you look like your mother " and I'll just say thanks even though I'm

cringing inside! This one happened to me this week. It feels like events like

this assert the difference between me and other people.

I guess the thing is... I'm in my 20's now. I worry what I'm going to be like in

the future if I feel like this now. I just know it's not something that I'm good

at, and maybe I give myself too much of a hard time about it, because sometimes

I'm very good at being alone.

So you're aussie too, huh? I did notice you post at crazy southern hemisphere

times as well

> >

> > Making friends and developing more intimate friendships is something that I

really struggle with... I guess I have some of the black-and-white thinking

habitually, because I have no trouble throwing myself into romantic

relationships (they're more all-or-nothing for me) - but friendship - I haven't

had a really close friend for years. I do have friends - but noone who will just

drop by, no-one who i will call without really thinking about what I am going to

say. I feel like it has to be preorganised and formal, otherwise maybe I'm

imposing.

> >

> > It's paradoxical. Anyone I really like and respect, I want to hide from. I

don't want them to know that I want their friendship, because then they might

discover that I don't have many close friends. And that looks so silly written

down!

> >

> > I don't know how to throw away this compulsion that I have to not be " found

out " .

> >

> > If anyone can relate or has any advice... I'd like to hear it. I'm tired of

feeling so alone.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Noble,

I'm wondering where it came from. 

I'm thinking when I was young, I was criticized in subtle ways a lot for not

being social enough--in my bpd mom's eyes, good people are happy people, and

happy people have a lot of friends and are well-liked.  A big deal was made out

of my being shy.  Now, I'm not really sure I was shy anymore.  I don't find my

FOO's version of me very reliable.  But being shy was seen as somethng deeply

worrying or a character flaw maybe when really it is not a big deal and shy

people seem to live very fine lives.  What I'm getting at is not being the head

cheerleader was seen as something I should probably be ashamed of when actually

not everyone is cut out for that.  If everyone was a head cheerleader, we would

not have any physicists.

I think this might be kind of universal, but I don't know.  It seems like I've

known several bpds who think good people are extroverted and if you don't have

50 friends falling all over you, there's something wrong with you.  I'm

wondering if that was the case with you.  Were you shamed as a kid for not

having " enough " friends or for not being extroverted enough?  Just something to

think about.  If that is where it started, dealing with the shame may be all you

need.

I don't know how old you are, but I think the reality is that a lot of people in

their mid-thirties and older aren't as close to their friends as they would like

to be.  Other people seem to be busy with first kids and then aging parents.  It

becomes harder to meet new people.  Schedules get complicated.  I don't think

you're the only one who feels isolated.  Loneliness is part of the human

condition.

Best,

Ashana

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[Guest guest]

Hi Noble,

Another thought.  When things are different to you than to other people, but you

don't say anything, you don't give them a chance to see you or know you. 

There's no way to get close to you or to even know if they want to get close to

you.  That in itself is isolating, because people are around, but you can't

connect to them.

It's scary to let people see your difference from them--probably for a number of

reasons, but one of them being your nada didn't tolerate difference.  Every time

you do let them see you, though, you give yourself and others a chance to see

whether there is a basis for friendship.  The more you let people see how you

are not like them, the more opportunity you give yourself to discern between

possible friendships and people you don't really like.  You don't have to be the

same to get along well or to enjoy each other, but your difference from others

is part of what makes you uniquely you and will attract certain people to you

while repelling others.

If you can brave the possibility of rejection and misunderstanding, I think what

you may find will happen is that it will clearer to you who you would like to be

closer to and who you really don't.  It will also be clearer to others.

Best,

Ashanaa

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[Guest guest]

Dear Noble - I think Ashana is really onto something here. That part about

being criticized for not being head cheerleader - I got the exact same thing as

a kid. I think my mom was so unsure about who and what she was supposed to be,

she took her cues from the popular culture of her time (being popular is

good...being head cheerleader is therefore the best possible position...being a

quiet, nerdy " reader " is not good, because people in the movies make fun of

those kids) So - when it was time to raise her own daughter, she was very

concerned about having a quiet, nerdy reader, and pushed me into social

activities and situations she thought would be " good " for me - but really they

just made me very uncomfortable, because I wasn't ready for them, or not suited

for them. The lovely thing about being an adult is that you no longer have to

run for head cheerleader - you can figure out how to be comfortable in your own

skin, in your own character.

Being alone is not the same thing as being lonely - it's OK to be more quiet,

more introspective, and to have just a friend or two. I also think it's a lot

more common than we're led to believe - most peoples' " friends " are really

acquaintances - not people you'd give a housekey to, or entrust with your dog

when you go out of town. I find that my nada is very uncomfortable with NOT

having loads of " friends " - and at points in my life I felt she was actually

competing with me for the attention of my one or two good friends. She would

try to " take them over " then divulge her " worries " about poor, antisocial,

pitiful me. It was very weird.

Also - about feeling like you can't let anyone know who you truly are - this is

a theme that is found in lots of literature and popular culture. There seems to

be a fairly common feeling that if people really knew us, they'd find out we're

failures - so it's not just you. Some of the most successful people are plagued

by a feeling that they are frauds and may be found out at any minute. (but not

that many of us actually turn out to be Bernie Madoff, thank God!)

[Guest guest]

Hi Noble,

A good way to start making friends is to join an activity group centered around

something you really like & enjoy doing. Like gourmet cooking? Reading mystery

novels, or writing? Going to classical music concerts or art museums? Into

sports, hiking, or biking? Do you enjoy organizing charity events or doing

crafts or collecting things? Do you love playing music or singing?

Joining an interest-centered group or groups automatically gives you a topic of

conversation to share. You gradually develop friendships within the group, and

then gradually you discover that a few of them will develop into close friends.

This takes time and effort on your part, and its as much about what you are

willing to give as much as it is what you hope to receive out of a friendship.

It took years, but I was able to develop a couple of very close friends who feel

like family, now, that can call on me for help and whom I can call for help.

Still, I do not use my friends as free psychiatrists. Its good to share thoughts

and feelings with each other, sadnesses and joys and give each other emotional

support, but I personally think that friendship relationships are not for

bringing *all* of one's most soul-wrenching, gut-eviscerating problems to for

discussion. There's a certain level of intimacy that I think is only

appropriate for therapists or clergy to hear.

But that's just me.

I hope you do set out to give yourself some joy, and find some good friends to

share your life with. We all deserve some joy.

-Annie

>

> Making friends and developing more intimate friendships is something that I

really struggle with... I guess I have some of the black-and-white thinking

habitually, because I have no trouble throwing myself into romantic

relationships (they're more all-or-nothing for me) - but friendship - I haven't

had a really close friend for years. I do have friends - but noone who will just

drop by, no-one who i will call without really thinking about what I am going to

say. I feel like it has to be preorganised and formal, otherwise maybe I'm

imposing.

>

> It's paradoxical. Anyone I really like and respect, I want to hide from. I

don't want them to know that I want their friendship, because then they might

discover that I don't have many close friends. And that looks so silly written

down!

>

> I don't know how to throw away this compulsion that I have to not be " found

out " .

>

> If anyone can relate or has any advice... I'd like to hear it. I'm tired of

feeling so alone.

>

[Guest guest]

I can completely relate. I have also had a lot of trouble finding and

maintaining friendships as an adult. I think, in my case, it has a lot to do

with issues carried over from childhood. (My nada was very -almost psychotically

- overprotective and isolating, so I didn't get a lot of interaction with kids

my own age outside of school, and when you don't get that socialization you

don't really learn friend-making skills.)

I also have the same issue of being able to find romantic relationships much

more easily than friendships, which I've always found very curious. I'm not sure

why it works that way, but I'm glad to know I'm not the only one with that

issue.

As far as finding friendships, I can't say I've been wildly successful, but I am

trying to work on the " cast a wide net " theory. I try to find as much

interaction as I can in group settings (taking classes, support groups, book

clubs, etc.)Even though I usually go and end up being a wallflower and not

really speaking much to anyone, I feel like I am making some progress in forcing

myself to get out and at least be around other people when I really just want to

stay at home and stick my head under the covers. And I hope eventually I will

get comfortable enough just being around other people that maybe I will be able

to actually be able to have conversations with some of them, which may lead to

one or two actual friendships. I'm not nearly there yet, but I am trying.

I also think friendships are like romantic relationships in that something has

to " click " with the other person if there is going to be the possibility of an

enduring friendship. And I compare it to the dating world, and I think of how

many guys I met and dated before finding on that clicked. So I try not to be

hard on myself if it's slow going. At least it's progress.

I don't know if any of this helps or not, but I hope it at least helps to know

you are not the only one with this problem.

>

> Making friends and developing more intimate friendships is something that I

really struggle with... I guess I have some of the black-and-white thinking

habitually, because I have no trouble throwing myself into romantic

relationships (they're more all-or-nothing for me) - but friendship - I haven't

had a really close friend for years. I do have friends - but noone who will just

drop by, no-one who i will call without really thinking about what I am going to

say. I feel like it has to be preorganised and formal, otherwise maybe I'm

imposing.

>

> It's paradoxical. Anyone I really like and respect, I want to hide from. I

don't want them to know that I want their friendship, because then they might

discover that I don't have many close friends. And that looks so silly written

down!

>

> I don't know how to throw away this compulsion that I have to not be " found

out " .

>

> If anyone can relate or has any advice... I'd like to hear it. I'm tired of

feeling so alone.

>

[Guest guest]

You know, you're the second person in 3 days who has mentioned here that you

moved a lot as a kid - I wonder if that's also one of traits of BPD parents. My

mom got " itchy feet " when we lived in one place too long. She was always

looking for the better house, the better neighborhood, the new experience. What

seemed to me like an idyllic place to grow up (stable friends, several years in

one school system, some ability to have a certain " status " in high school) - was

a stifling experience to her. Of course, I can also see how it might have been

boring and stifling to live in a small, quiet town, so maybe it wasn't BPD

behavior after all. I've attributed it to an ADD-type craving for stimulation

on her part as well - or it could have been part of the pattern of love/hate

that BPD's do with people. But people have always asked me if we were a

military family when I tell them how often we moved - it wasn't a matter of

getting evicted or moving because of financial disasters, it usually was my

mother's urge to do something new (although she always justified it by coming up

with some real, concrete need to move).

Anyway - about the other part of your message - trying to appropriate your

friends - same thing here. I never could figure out why nada felt the need to

be right there in the room with us if I had a friend over. She was a " star " and

tended to dominate conversation (now I realize it was more like she sucked all

the air out of the room) - so it was hard for me to develop conversational

skills. Then she'd berate me for being such a wallflower. Very hard on a

teenager to live that way, and I think it led me to avoid bringing friends home

- we either went to their homes or hung out at neutral places.