Re: Re: Bouncing blood sugars oh boy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 01/27/2001 7:06:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,

lists@... writes:

<< What a mess, ! What I would like to know is how you managed to

keep it all down? If I had eaten that lot I would have been too busy

scraping it off the carpet and would never have dreamed of wasting a

test strip on it! You must be trying to punish yourself for something! >>

, LOL!!!! I think knows how her food is going to react, I just

don't understand why she keeps posting it knowing the answers she's going to

get!!

Didn't you say you're a nurse ? Of course you know what's going on,

cmon!!

carol

[Guest guest]

Wow. We are being harsh on , aren't we folks?

She specifically asked not to be lectured. You lecture and you give someone the

chance to be pissed off and they get even more stubborn.

Explaining, negotiating, coaching, encouraging,educating, coaxing, cajoling,

pleading, reinforcing are much better ways of helping her.

Hey there ?? Are you listening. I will send you a box of low carb food

on me (pasta, chips, cereal) etc if you wait five hours between meals (no

snacks, of course), write down what you eat, whatever it is, and check b.g.

before every meal. Got a deal??

If you do this, we can help you calculate how each food affected your b.g. so

that you will be able to understand the numbers and manipulate them when you

decide you want to.

n

[Guest guest]

Maybe you weren't harsh, but the other messages bounced off me with a hostile

twinge. already why her sugars are up and down.

When a client asks me a question ( I am a psychotherapist), I make them reframe

it as a statement about themselves. Very few questions are really for

information, like " What time is it? "

Most questions are hidden comments. is not asking " Why are my sugars

bouncing around? " really. She is telling us that she notices a tremendous

bouncing of sugar and realizes that it has to do with what she eats and doesn't

want to be told what to eat or what not to eat. "

Thus, until she decides that she wants to control her b.g. and how much control

she wants, you can answer her questions from here to eternity and get no

results.

Beware the statement couched in a question.

n

[Guest guest]

Yes. knows the truth and wants help or she wouldn't be writing here.

Although some people are just waiting to be offended and then they will have a

reason to act-out against themselves more.

As long as someone is asking for help, I will try to share my experience. I am

often despondent about my son and his diabetes and many messages have brought me

to tears and brought me hope and strength.

I am working so hard on correcting his b.g. (with Ron's help) that I haven't had

much time to respond, but I decided I better make some time or the flow of help

my direction will stop too.

can change if she decides to and I will offer whatever I can do.

n

[Guest guest]

n,

I don't think I was hard on . I asked what was wrong that she couldn't

handle eating properly and what we could do to help her. If that's being hard on

someone, may everyone always be so hard on me. <g>

Teri

Re: Re: Bouncing blood sugars oh boy

Wow. We are being harsh on , aren't we folks?

[Guest guest]

drmarion122@... wrote:

>

> Maybe you weren't harsh, but the other messages bounced off me with a hostile

twinge. already why her sugars are up and down.

>

> When a client asks me a question ( I am a psychotherapist), I make them

reframe it as a statement about themselves. Very few questions are really for

information, like " What time is it? "

>

> Most questions are hidden comments. is not asking " Why are my sugars

bouncing around? " really. She is telling us that she notices a tremendous

bouncing of sugar and realizes that it has to do with what she eats and doesn't

want to be told what to eat or what not to eat. "

>

> Thus, until she decides that she wants to control her b.g. and how much

control she wants, you can answer her questions from here to eternity and get no

results.

>

> Beware the statement couched in a question.

>

> n

Well doc, from a layman's view, I would say that she told the group

because she was unhappy with herself for eating what she did eat, and

desperately wants some way to lift her self-esteem. Support groups are

supposed to be good for that, eh? I betcha she really knew why her

numbers were bouncing around.

--

Dave - 8:18:55 PM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, NPH

-

Davors Daily Aphorism:

Only those who do nothing make no mistakes.

--

Visit my HomePage:

http://dorcutt.homepage.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 01-01-27 20:24:30 EST, you write:

<< Support groups are

supposed to be good for that, eh? I betcha she really knew why her

numbers were bouncing around. >>

And that's exact what Susie said to her...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/27/01 8:05:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,

drmarion122@... writes:

<<

Hey there ?? Are you listening. I will send you a box of low carb

food on me (pasta, chips, cereal) etc if you wait five hours between meals

(no snacks, of course), write down what you eat, whatever it is, and check

b.g. before every meal. Got a deal??

If you do this, we can help you calculate how each food affected your b.g.

so that you will be able to understand the numbers and manipulate them when

you decide you want to. >>

hmm 5 hrs sounds like forever sometimes <G> but i'll give it a try...

i really dont know how long i've gone most of the time between eating...

[Guest guest]

Well, even if it is four hours between meals, at least try to keep it

standard and don't deprive yourself. Write everything down and post us the

results.

n

[Guest guest]

Hello Donna;

I haven't replied much to you, but I have been reading your posts. I have been

spending literall 5-7 hours a day on tuning my son's blood sugars. He is 11 and

totally insulin dependent which means at least four checks and five shots a day

and we follow a lowered carb diet.

Here is a suggestion for you. Instead of resisting your husband " being a baby " ,

ask him if he wants you to " baby him " for a while. What I mean is that you

wouldu plan and serve his meals and negotiate them with him. I don't know if he

is on insulin or meds; I can't remember.

Tell him that for three months you will care for him totally if he will check

regularly and eat as you give him. Try to negotiate and not battle over the

meals. Even Dr. Bernstein, who is pretty strict on food, told me to negotiate

with my son.

I read a post on another site. A young man about 14 wrote in and said he was so

depressed about his diabetes and controlling sugar that he wanted to end his

life. He said that his mom told him when he was 11

(my son's age) that he was " old enough " to take care of his own diabetes. He

just couldn't do it and felt like a hopeless failure.

I have never forgotten that post. I try to give my son as much responsibility

as he can handle and then take the rest of the burden on myself. This frees him

to adjust to his condition and not feel totally helpless. Helplessness is the

source of depression.

Although your husband is chronologically an adult, emotionally he is reacting to

his situation not as mature as you would like to see him do. So go with the

flow (unless you object for your own reasons) and offer to take care of him for

a while. It is called paradoxical intention. If he allows you to take care of

him, that's good. If he does the opposite and says, " forget it, I'll take care

of myself, that's good too. " And if he doesn't want your help or anyones, then

you have to decide how much you are willing to watch him damage his body. In

the 12 step program they say " I am powerless over alcohol and my life has become

unmangeable. "

You are powerless over your husbands diabetes and should you try to control him

or have power, your life will become unmanageable as you see already happening.

Good luck and keep in touch.

n

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/28/01 6:13:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,

drmarion122@... writes:

<< Instead of resisting your husband " being a baby " , ask him if he wants you

to " baby him " for a while. What I mean is that you wouldu plan and serve his

meals and negotiate them with him. I don't know if he is on insulin or meds;

I can't remember.

Tell him that for three months you will care for him totally if he will

check regularly and eat as you give him. Try to negotiate and not battle

over the meals. Even Dr. Bernstein, who is pretty strict on food, told me to

negotiate with my son.

>>

Gosh i'd love it if someone would do that for me....

[Guest guest]

Hi ;

Yes, I would love it if someone took care of my son for even a day, but it

ain't going to happen.

We will baby you via cyberspace if you let us.

n

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/28/01 9:30:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,

drmarion122@... writes:

<< Yes, I would love it if someone took care of my son for even a day, but it

ain't going to happen.

We will baby you via cyberspace if you let us. >>

hmm n i'll take your son... for a week for you

being an RN, and a lover of kids... should be a piece of cake... (non sugar

of course)

And i'll try to let you all help me... cyberly.

[Guest guest]

Hello ;

Well, for my son, you need to calculate every gram of carb and protein and use a

formula to calculate the right insulin. Then you have to get him to check his

b.g. at least four times a day and inject five times a day. Have to prepare

meals that match insulin and make sure he eats the whole meal or there will be a

hypo. Have to be sure he is always carrying glucose tabs and a meter.

Have to do all this with love and without getting too emotional (that is the

hardest part because I often feel like crying when I see syringes and vials of

insulin in my hands).

And be sure he feels good and doesn't use diabetes as an excuse and isn't

depressed about it.

So I appreciate the offer, but taking care of him for a day requires a lot of

learning first. Anyway, I was just venting; I wouldn't be able to live without

him for a whole day because I love him desperately.

n

[Guest guest]

n,

Can't agree more with you. It's like my boyfriend wants to argue the fact

of his machine is not reading right. How can his reading be so high and

then drop so quickly within a few hours is what he says?, something is

wrong. We walked for an hour non stop and then took his reading and it

had dropped from 344 at noon to 111 by 2pm and we had breakfast at 10am.

He then freaked out and say it's dropping to fast, I'm feeling light

headed. Guess what he shoved in his mouth? Hand full of chocolate covered

raisins, sigh. Man is 54 years old and I can't baby sit him anymore. I

can only talk to him but talking don't seem to help. He wants spaghetti

tonight. I said I think that's to high in carbs. WELL I WANT TO TRY IT

AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS, as the Chinese noodles last night did not cause me

to go high.

I told him it's what you eat and until YOU decide to understand your

diabetes and learn how to control it then it's going to be high and low

all the time. BUT ONLY RON CAN DO IT, not Donna.

Donna

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:59:33 EST drmarion122@... writes:

> Maybe you weren't harsh, but the other messages bounced off me with a

> hostile twinge. already why her sugars are up and down.

>

> When a client asks me a question ( I am a psychotherapist), I make

> them reframe it as a statement about themselves. Very few questions

> are really for information, like " What time is it? "

>

> Most questions are hidden comments. is not asking " Why are

> my sugars bouncing around? " really. She is telling us that she

> notices a tremendous bouncing of sugar and realizes that it has to

> do with what she eats and doesn't want to be told what to eat or

> what not to eat. "

>

> Thus, until she decides that she wants to control her b.g. and how

> much control she wants, you can answer her questions from here to

> eternity and get no results.

>

> Beware the statement couched in a question.

>

> n

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/29/01 9:04:33 AM Pacific Standard Time, Toy39@...

writes:

<<

Ron is one of those men that must be in control at all times and I think

he felt like he was losing *ALL* control and that's why he has been so

cranky and moody since finding out about his diabetes. He sugar has been

up so high and he saw yesterday from just walking an hour non stop in the

mall how it can lower it. I said see you CAN get it under control. It

seemed to lift his spirits up some what. Me and his son said we will go

walking with him three times a week for an hour.

Is it normal for diabetics to be hungry all the time? Seems like Ron is

hungry two hours after eating.

Donna

>>

Well, if you eat carbohydrate the body produces insulin in abundance and the

carbs are taken care of right away by the insulin. But high carb food will

illicit an excess of insulin from the pancreas which causes sugar to drop.

When sugar drops too low the brain sends a signal that " you are hungry " as a

protection to get you to eat so you don't get lower. In reality, if you

checked at that time you would probably see that sugar is low and can be

corrected with glucose.

That is the problem with high carb and hi glycemic carb: the surge of

insulin. This type of eating also taxes the pancreas to produce enough

insulin and that is why the pancreas of a TypeII who doesn't control with

diet and exercise eventually burns out their pancreas and must take insulin.

The medication helps cells be more sensitive to insulin so the pancreas

receives a signal not to produce so much. However, continued overworking of

the pancreas will lead to beta-cell burnout and your husband will need

injected insulin.

My son has Type I diabetes and his pancreas was destroyed by a virus. He has

very few insulin producing beta cells and therefore all of the insulin must

be injected. It is quite a job to figure what foods need what insulin, but I

can tell you that by avoiding the high glycemic and high quantity of carbs,

control is easier.

Does he want you to " Baby " him or not??? Be careful for codependency. I get

very codependent with my diabetic son. Every one of his reactions causes a

exaggerated and inappropriate reaction from me unless I reign myself in.

CODEPENDENT no more, as much as possible with his diabetes jerking at my

heartstrings.

n

[Guest guest]

Sounds like " Loving detachment " is the best solution for you guys. Let him

know how you feel and then let him alone.

n

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 01/29/2001 11:04:22 AM Central Standard Time,

Toy39@... writes:

<< s it normal for diabetics to be hungry all the time? Seems like Ron is

hungry two hours after eating.

Donna

>>

I always have a hunger 2 hours after eating. I consider it a false hunger

and it usually coincides with the peak of insulin bringing down the meal

hunger. Sometimes if I cannot ignore it a couple of almonds makes it go

away. It usually lasts about 20 minutes. It is much worse if I have gotten

myself to a high level and it is coming down quickly.

The walking is great. I use my treadmill sometimes to correct my food

mistakes...

ressy

[Guest guest]

Donna wondered:

<< Is it normal for diabetics to be hungry all the time? Seems like Ron is

hungry two hours after eating.

There are probably a couple of things going on there. One is that many of us

actually find carbohydrates addicting. We eat them when we're not hungry; we

overeat them - sometimes to the point of feeling sick and bloated. We eat

them even when they make us feel guilty, sleepy, and we get indigestion. I

call it the refrigerator stare. We eat, then a few hours later, we're

standing in the kitchen with the refrigerator door open, just gazing ...

Another thing is that Ron's numbers have been running so high that, even

though he's not hypoing, his body feels like it is, even at/above 100. And

one of the symptoms of a hypo is intense hunger. So Ron just needs to go

through a period of adjustment ... which will not occur unless he breaks the

carbohydrate cycle.

Donna, I think a more profound issue for you and Ron than the diabetes

itself is control. I suspect he senses your efforts to help him as

" control, " and is rebelling against that. You don't sound very darn happy

with how the situation is proceeding. You may find you just need to bail out

emotionally for awhile - focus more on yourself and your needs and let the

dust settle. Eventually, Ron must become responsible for his disease

management. You can help, but we can't actually manage another adult's life.

And I don't want you to get all burned out wrestling with Ron and his son.

Your needs are important too ...

Susie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/28/01 1:22:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, Toy39@...

writes:

> I told him it's what you eat and until YOU decide to understand your

> diabetes and learn how to control it then it's going to be high and low

> all the time. BUT ONLY RON CAN DO IT, not Donna.

>

Hi Donna,

You are right.....ONLY RON CAN DO IT. My husband, also a T2 diabetic, was

ill for many years. He stopped absorbing nutrients and was bedridden with

congestive heart failure. He was in and out of the ER frequently. Finally,

his problems were correctly diagnosed and he learned that he was not able to

tolerate gluten (anything containing or contaminated by wheat, barley, rye,

etc.). Of course, all he wanted to eat were breads, buns, pizza crusts,

cookies, cakes, etc. Even Cream of wheat cereal sounded yummy. Incidentally,

his " out of touch " diabetic dr thought his DM control was fantastic; he even

complimented Bob's weight loss (due to starvation).

By this time, I was so frustrated and realized that I needed to start taking

better care of myself. I could not make it OK for Bob to eat the foods he

wanted. I started to cook healthier meals and made sure the house smelled

like yummy dishes. I made soups, beautiful salads, etc. I hid a few NEW

foods in dishes and then asked how he liked them afterwards. Both Bob and the

kids developed new tastes. He now accepts that there are some foods that

will make him quite ILL and sometimes he chooses to have a small amount of

those. Within a few weeks of my new cooking strategy, Bob started to help

more with the meal planning and even the prep work.

First, he had to learn how to stay healthy. I could help with that. Next, he

had to decide how healthy he wanted to be. That part was and is his decision.

Regarding DM: his old dr had him believing that he could eat any food as long

as he took enough insulin. He has made LOTS of progress in this area. He

will often ask my opinion about food choices and/or insulin doses. At those

times, I offer my opinion. Otherwise, I don't discuss his DM....just mine.

He sees me controlling with diet and exercise and always asks me about my

numbers. Since I was dxed, his control has improved tremendously.

Carol T

Diet/Exercise.... almost at my 2 yr DM anniversary

[Guest guest]

Thanks n,

Ron has diabetes 2 and on pills right now.

I think I'll suggest this to him tonight " let me do ALL the cooking. " We

ran out and purchased a diabetes cook book before we realized that eating

low carbs. was better for you but there are lots of recipes in the book

that have low carbs. so I'm going to suggest we try these ones first and

see how it goes. Ron seems to want to pick out all the high Carb. meals

from the cook book, worse asking his son what he wants for dinner. It's

tacos or pizza on that child's menu. Before I moved in Ron and his son

ate out every single night.

Ron is one of those men that must be in control at all times and I think

he felt like he was losing *ALL* control and that's why he has been so

cranky and moody since finding out about his diabetes. He sugar has been

up so high and he saw yesterday from just walking an hour non stop in the

mall how it can lower it. I said see you CAN get it under control. It

seemed to lift his spirits up some what. Me and his son said we will go

walking with him three times a week for an hour.

Is it normal for diabetics to be hungry all the time? Seems like Ron is

hungry two hours after eating.

Donna

On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 17:47:16 EST drmarion122@... writes:

> Hello Donna;

>

> I haven't replied much to you, but I have been reading your posts.

> I have been spending literall 5-7 hours a day on tuning my son's

> blood sugars. He is 11 and totally insulin dependent which means at

> least four checks and five shots a day and we follow a lowered carb

> diet.

>

> Here is a suggestion for you. Instead of resisting your husband

> " being a baby " , ask him if he wants you to " baby him " for a while.

> What I mean is that you wouldu plan and serve his meals and

> negotiate them with him. I don't know if he is on insulin or meds;

> I can't remember.

>

> Tell him that for three months you will care for him totally if he

> will check regularly and eat as you give him. Try to negotiate and

> not battle over the meals. Even Dr. Bernstein, who is pretty strict

> on food, told me to negotiate with my son.

>

> Good luck and keep in touch.

>

> n

[Guest guest]

to be honest Susie I'm fighting a bad cold and sore throat that I came

down with last week. To much stress and worrying about everyone else.

Figured I would cook the meals and if he wants to eat them fine if not

like you said I can't control Ron's life.

Donna

On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:21:48 -0700 " Susie M. "

writes:

>

> Donna, I think a more profound issue for you and Ron than the

> diabetes

> itself is control. I suspect he senses your efforts to help him as

> " control, " and is rebelling against that. You don't sound very darn

> happy

> with how the situation is proceeding. You may find you just need to

> bail out

> emotionally for awhile - focus more on yourself and your needs and

> let the

> dust settle. Eventually, Ron must become responsible for his

> disease

> management. You can help, but we can't actually manage another

> adult's life.

> And I don't want you to get all burned out wrestling with Ron and

> his son.

> Your needs are important too ...

>

> Susie

[Guest guest]

To be honest he is a pampered man. Loves to be waited on and that's where

the problem I think kind of comes in. He wants me to know what he can and

can't eat and how he should control his diabetes and yet there is this

power struggle within him. What can I eat? I suggest something and then

he wants to argue why that food is good and not so bad for him. Same with

his blood checking. Asked me how to do it, read the book for him and he

also knew that I used to check my mothers after she had a stroke. When it

came down to checking his blood. LEAVE ME ALONE I'LL DO IT MYSELF!! I

left him alone on learning how to do his finger sticks, even though it

took him 15 minutes every time he checked his blood and maybe went

through 3 test strips. He finally caught on after I suggest we watch the

tape that came with the monitor, wink. He now can do it within a few

seconds.

I figured I'll leave it alone for a while, let him adjust to the fact of

having diabetes. We go to the Dr. Feb. 20 so let the Dr. tell him what he

should and should not do.

Donna

On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:19:23 EST drmarion122@... writes:

>

> Does he want you to " Baby " him or not??? Be careful for

> codependency. I get

> very codependent with my diabetic son. Every one of his reactions

> causes a

> exaggerated and inappropriate reaction from me unless I reign myself

> in.

> CODEPENDENT no more, as much as possible with his diabetes jerking

> at my

> heartstrings.

>

> n