val- switching to armour

Thanks for sharing this. I also have to take my last dose early in the afternoon or I can't get to sleep. AGRe: val- switching to armourPosted by: "jeff_cline2003" seacline98@... jeff_cline2003Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:28 pm (PST)I take 2/3 of my dose at 6-9am, then 1/3 of my dose at 4-5 pm. I take3 1/4 gr. armour a day (2 1/4 in am, 1 in pm). I can't take it atnight like others on this forum, it keeps me from sleeping, orsleeping well.-

December 12, 2008

Hear you!! I lost my stability when I rose T3 with the winter and when I tapered off a partial dose of T3. Never have been able to get it right - yet! I think my adrenals get into such an uproar with the fiddling that there is NO way I can make anymore adjustments until I stabilize where I am and then take some continuous vitals. Then I can see. And yes, throwing sex hormones in can really crank the works. But they often have to be adjusted. It's one of the beauties and one of the nightmares. Yeah, I would think lowering your ferritin, making HC and T3 adjustments as well as sex hormones would be a pill. I always think I should do just one thing at a time. Period. But it doesn't work this way. I find that I can't "set" a dose as much as I would LOVE to. With T3 I am becoming MORE sensitive to it then I was 3 months ago. I keep needing less and going hyper on lower doses. My greatest fear is to have all the hormones off or in need of changing at the same time. Nightmare!AGI'm in the same place, weird things going on, everything feels in flux, and neither raising nor lowering really feels right. (I refer to both my HC and T3). I'm playing with them both within a very narrow range, but can't seem to get back to feeling as stable as I once did. Experimenting with sex hormones may be what is destabilizing me so much, but I got to a place where I really felt like I needed to give them a very good trial.And I also am lowering my ferritin at the same time. Lot of stuff going on, maybe too many things, but it all needed to be addressed. I guess I really hoped that once as optimal as I was ever going to get on HC and T3, I could fix other things without messing up those two, but it doesn't seem to work that way.And sometimes dosing needs just seem to change for no reason, too. "just because". Maybe as healing takes place?sol

December 12, 2008

Sol, what were your hyper symptoms?AgI could be wrong about this, but I think it would take the same 4 to 6 weeks or more before enough T4 left your system? Not sure, but a heck of a lot longer than it takes to stop being hyper from too much T3. Even though I was darned hyper for a few months late last year and into Jan and Feb of this year, once it got noticed (help from this list) I dropped the T3 rather drastically between one day and the next, and the worst of it stopped very quickly. Then I had to find a new balance, as of course I dropped too low, LOL.sol

December 12, 2008

Atlanta Girl wrote:

> Hear you!! I lost my stability when I rose T3 with the winter and when

> I tapered off a partial dose of T3. Never have been able to get it

> right - yet! I think my adrenals get into such an uproar with the

> fiddling that there is NO way I can make anymore adjustments until I

> stabilize where I am and then take some continuous vitals.

That is where I am, I was fairly stable until a HUGE stress caused a big

uproar, lots of stress dosing kept me from crashing my adrenals, but

after that I just can't seem to get balanced again. I hope quite soon I

will begin to even out again.

> Then I can see. And yes, throwing sex hormones in can really crank

> the works. But they often have to be adjusted. It's one of the

> beauties and one of the nightmares.

Yes, it was time, I am SO sick of the hot flashes, and nothing I do with

T3 or HC seemed to be helping what I think are low progesterone

symptoms, etc. I am waiting out the confusion caused by first adding a

teeny bit of pregnenolone and DHEA, and then later adding in progesterone.

> Yeah, I would think lowering your ferritin, making HC and T3

> adjustments as well as sex hormones would be a pill. I always think I

> should do just one thing at a time. Period. But it doesn't work this

> way. I find that I can't " set " a dose as much as I would LOVE to.

> With T3 I am becoming MORE sensitive to it then I was 3 months ago.

> I keep needing less and going hyper on lower doses.

SEEMS to be what is happening to me, too. But I felt I had no choice but

to start making these other changes, as joint pains and insomnia were

increasing so much I have had to go back to some pain meds, and changing

T3 and HC weren't helping. Sometimes we just are forced to do more than

one thing at once. So I'm working with it as best I can.

sol

December 12, 2008

I just started 5 cytomel to add to my armour 2 1.2 grains, because I was having high reverse t3 along with lowish ft3 and low tsh. I really hope it works. From reading here, it looks like just adding the bit of extra t3 doesnt help the cause. Well see. This is my first day and I feel lots more energy. But thats how I felt before upon just raiseing the armour dose. I felt more enery and even hyper...but then of course, crash and high revt3 and then worsening hypo(dry skin, constipation, tired)

My plan is to keep the extra 5 t3 until I feel hypo again, and then maybe cut a tiny bit of armour at the same time of adding a bit more t3. I really hope this works. I personally would rather feel a bit hyper than hypo anyday! 3 yrs of hypo and a nonfunctioning life.

Im curious as to why some of you dont feel totally well on t3. Ive heard many people like it to stay on. And why would you still have aches and pains? I wonder if t4 and t3 actually do different things, instead of t4 just being inactive?

> Hear you!! I lost my stability when I rose T3 with the winter and when > I tapered off a partial dose of T3. Never have been able to get it > right - yet! I think my adrenals get into such an uproar with the > fiddling that there is NO way I can make anymore adjustments until I > stabilize where I am and then take some continuous vitals.

That is where I am, I was fairly stable until a HUGE stress caused a big uproar, lots of stress dosing kept me from crashing my adrenals, but after that I just can't seem to get balanced again. I hope quite soon I will begin to even out again.

> Then I can see. And yes, throwing sex hormones in can really crank > the works. But they often have to be adjusted. It's one of the > beauties and one of the nightmares.

Yes, it was time, I am SO sick of the hot flashes, and nothing I do with T3 or HC seemed to be helping what I think are low progesterone symptoms, etc. I am waiting out the confusion caused by first adding a teeny bit of pregnenolone and DHEA, and then later adding in progesterone.

> Yeah, I would think lowering your ferritin, making HC and T3 > adjustments as well as sex hormones would be a pill. I always think I > should do just one thing at a time. Period. But it doesn't work this > way. I find that I can't "set" a dose as much as I would

LOVE to. > With T3 I am becoming MORE sensitive to it then I was 3 months ago. > I keep needing less and going hyper on lower doses. SEEMS to be what is happening to me, too. But I felt I had no choice but to start making these other changes, as joint pains and insomnia were increasing so much I have had to go back to some pain meds, and changing T3 and HC weren't helping. Sometimes we just are forced to do more than one thing at once. So I'm working with it as best I can.

sol

------------------------------------

December 12, 2008

Isnt needing less t3 a GOOD thing?

Subject: Re: val- switching to armourTo: RT3_T3 Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 2:32 PM

Hear you!! I lost my stability when I rose T3 with the winter and when I tapered off a partial dose of T3. Never have been able to get it right - yet! I think my adrenals get into such an uproar with the fiddling that there is NO way I can make anymore adjustments until I stabilize where I am and then take some continuous vitals. Then I can see. And yes, throwing sex hormones in can really crank the works. But they often have to be adjusted. It's one of the beauties and one of the nightmares. Yeah, I would think lowering your ferritin, making HC and T3 adjustments as well as sex hormones would be a pill. I always think I should do just one thing at a time. Period. But it doesn't work this way. I find that I can't "set" a dose as much as I would LOVE to. With T3 I am becoming MORE sensitive to it then I was 3 months ago. I keep needing less and going hyper on lower doses.

My greatest fear is to have all the hormones off or in need of changing at the same time. Nightmare!

AG

I'm in the same place, weird things going on, everything feels in flux, and neither raising nor lowering really feels right. (I refer to both my HC and T3). I'm playing with them both within a very narrow range, but can't seem to get back to feeling as stable as I once did. Experimenting with sex hormones may be what is destabilizing me so much, but I got to a place where I really felt like I needed to give them a very good trial.And I also am lowering my ferritin at the same time. Lot of stuff going on, maybe too many things, but it all needed to be addressed. I guess I really hoped that once

as optimal as I was ever going to get on HC and T3, I could fix other things without messing up those two, but it doesn't seem to work that way.And sometimes dosing needs just seem to change for no reason, too. "just because". Maybe as healing takes place?sol

December 12, 2008

So, since lowering my armour, would also lower my t3, I just added the 5 t3 extra without lowering the armour. I hope it works.

Subject: Re: Re: val- switching to armourTo: RT3_T3 Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 12:37 PMFor further about this, when you lower Armoru from a hyper state, it immediately lowers T3, buy however much is in the dose you lower, that in turn calls for more t3 conversion fro t4 thus lowering it as well. Which is why normally with NORMAL cortisll functionand loweering it quivkly rather than staying hyper too long, you cn correct minor overages without getting the whole RT3 problem started agin, btu I fear if I were to stay hyper for too long.. I would be right back where I started.

-- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

------------------------------------

December 12, 2008

Many here are also battling weak adrneals and it si VERY hard to adjust

thyroid and juggle cortisl dosing at the same time. Then there is MENO

symptoms which really muck things up, then there is the fact many of us

were hypo MANY years.. I have been on thyoid since I was 19 and am now 54..

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

December 12, 2008

It will work to raise T3 levels but if you still have high RT3 the T3

cannto getinto the cells as RT3 blocks the receptors. You can have VERY

high T3in the blood and stil be hypothyrid with high RT3,.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

December 12, 2008

makes sense..but I was hoping that since Im not adding anymore t4...my rt3 levels wouldnt continue to rise any higher...then I assumed that just a bit extra t3 would be on top of and appart from the other.

Subject: Re: Re: val- switching to armourTo: RT3_T3 Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 3:55 PMIt will work to raise T3 levels but if you still have high RT3 the T3 cannto getinto the cells as RT3 blocks the receptors. You can have VERY high T3in the blood and stil be hypothyrid with high RT3,.

-- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

------------------------------------

December 12, 2008

Worse joint pain, worse insomnia, hyperdefecation and diarrhea to where

it leaked uncontrollably (nice, huh!). I can't believe I didn't realize

that was a hyper symptom, but I didn't. Then I had a blood panel, and my

cholesterol had dropped from 215 to 143. I asked here what the heck? And

was told I was hyper. My temps didn't tell me back then, because I

wasn't using my thermometer correctly. At the time it all came together

after the blood results came back, I was still in the process of raising

T3, pushing to get higher, duh! I thought most of my symptoms were

because I was still too low, but I passed right on through my optimal

dose and didn't recognize it at all.

I also had symptoms I didn't properly attribute, such as nervousness,

shakiness, things easily put down to low cortisol, but in retrospect I

think cortisol was going low because T3 was too high.

I now watch for any consistent (since I can get this from other causes

too) increase in GI " transit " as you call it, as that is a biggie. It is

hard to notice sometimes since I've had IBS-D for about 30 years. It

sounds stupid but I have to stop and think to notice whether it is

better or worse, and if worse, does it continue to worsen or was it a

" one of " . Also increased joint pain and higher temps (now).

sol

Atlanta Girl wrote:

> Sol, what were your hyper symptoms?

>

December 13, 2008

Isn't it awful? I felt completely humiliated even at home alone.

Geez, here I'd been potty trained for 61 years and

suddenly................not.

sol

T wrote:

> LOl AKA Poop SWOOSH! Gotcha on thta one!

>

December 13, 2008

YUP Try trying to work with this going on! I felt like I am the one

thatshould have been in a crate at work not the dogs! LOL I have towels

for all my chairs and changes of clothign at work ALWAYS. Weird thiing

one of the reasons I went upto 40mg HC was this problem.. steroids are

SUPPOSED to helpthis. HA! I got a MUCh better handle onit as I lowered

the HC! BTW soeone suggested to me to try Tums and THEY HELP BIG TIME! I

was taling about 6-8 of them a day and it really made a differnce. When

you are in that state I think you would do anything to fix it. VERY

embarrassing. Sneeze in the car on the way o work.. OOPS. Cough..oops,

bend over.. OOPS. $hi_... Not to mention 54 is a bit young for Depends

and they are expensive!

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

December 14, 2008

.... in order to adjust my t3 dosing now I am being really careful with the c, mag and probiotic foods. Like you Sol, if this is an ongoing hyper symptom I sure want to know and not be thinking I took too much mag and write it off. I really think this is why my hyper has been masked so long now.I am against SRT3 for myself for this very reason. How do you know what dose you got when this symptom persists?? Now that I am off SRT3 and traded out, damn!!, I was getting so little from the SR as it was running out of me too fast. My trade out to all t3 made me nut-so hyper. Am still lowering to find the right dose. Looks like my SRT3 dose of 35 mcg. was worth about 7.5 mcg at best.Are we having fun yet!??! ;-) AGIs it better now that you have gone down on thyroid? Mine was from hyper, how about you?I agree about the tums calcium, it helps when I have an occasional mild problem now. But that kind of severe problem has meant hyper for me. Though certain supplements and foods (Kefir) can also cause it--(magnesium even at very low dose, vit C, and so on). In those cases it isn't ongoing like it was from too much thyroid.sol

December 14, 2008

Great detective work Val!! For me- probiotics, esp complete ones like HLC, magnesium, salt and vit c. I think too much salt does because it creates too much moisture in my digestive track. Oh, and too much T3 as we all know. AGI have isolated several things that were causing it. Krill oil, sublingual B-12, sublingual DHEA, Vitamin E, and high thyroid.. altogether DISASTER! the sublinguals all contain Mannitol for sweetness,. it has ALWAYS given me problems, but I had forgotten. The oils.. just greased everything up. STill tried Krill oil again last week since it has been much better.. right back again.-- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

December 14, 2008

Well detective or no, mine is back this AM with a vengeance.. UGH... I am now on 3 grians Armour ONLY no HC, thought= I took 5mg this morning JUST IN CASE it is low, did not help. HMPH.. I am gettign tired of this needing diapers crap! Woth 8 dogs to groom tody I do nto have TIME or energy for this,.

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

December 14, 2008

Sol, it would appear we can grow more sensitive to T3 the longer we are on it. It's too bad you have to deal with an iodine allergy. Sorry to hear this. What binds to iodine to get it out of you more quickly? I also am not right with my T3 dose yet. Need to keep pinching it lower. Still my heart rate is too high. Fingertip tremor. Quick digestive transit is lowering. Do you have fibro? Happy to hear you enjoying some good energy. Getting rid of the iron overtime with help enormously.AGI recently tried raising T3 by 6.25 mcg to 43.75 mcg, and right away knew it was too much, temps and hip pain shot up. So I'm back to my former 37.5 mcg, which may still be too much but was my normal dose for a long time. When I tried a drop to 31.25 mcg, that felt like not quite enough. I can't cut the darn pills any smaller, or I'd try for an inbetween dose. FWIW, I had been on 43.75 for quite a long time, and felt ok on that, when I suddenly began to feel a bit hyper, that was the reason for lowering to 37.5.From my then normal 37.5 mcg daily, I added 1/2 grain thyroid S giving me 42 mcg T3 and 10 mcg T4. The skin reactions became scary by two weeks into it, before I had a chance to drop any T3 I had to stop the Thyroid S yet again. It took many more than 2 weeks before those itches subsided, and I still have a higher than usual amount of iodine, as any little high iodine foods start them up again. It takes seemingly forever for it to all get excreted out. This is a process I am unfortunately all too familiar with from 20+ years experience. There is always the chance it is some other cause this time, but the whole experience from beginning to end is utterly typical of being iodined.So, I seem to be in a cycle of needing less T3 than previously, but haven't quite found a new dose that is comfortable yet. In a day or two, I'll try lowering to 31.25 again, and see how it goes.Then in a few weeks, I will have Triyotex and TiTre to play with. I think the TiTre, being 20 mcg per tab instead of 25 mcg per tab, might just give me that in between dose I'm looking for. So I'm not done with changes yet. Then near the end of Jan, I get to donate blood again, more changes............LOL. I can't say this isn't interesting. But I've been in a very low pain state for a few days now, with good energy (for me) so that is a darn good place, but it never seems to last.sol

December 15, 2008

Val, was this an order yourself home urine test? Or doc ordered?One thing that can irritate IBS for me is too many supplements. I pull back with them when this happens. Simplify diet, etc. I feel for you with this one having just existed my hyper induced episodes that seemed endless. Didn't know adhesions could cause IBS.agI am waiting for the results of 24 hour cortisol urine test that I did over a week ago. That shoud settle it if I need HC or not nbut I had this horrid problems ion 40mg HC too, so I do not think that is ti. I also stress dosed today and it did nothing to help it. I thnk it si plain old IBS possibly from adhesions fromn the Endometriosis and PID I had at 27 years old. Took two wide open abdominal surgeries to get rid of it as even after a complete hyst my cysts cam eback! they told mne then i may well have adhesions later in life. Oh joy.-- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

December 15, 2008

Doctor ordered. 17-Hydroxycorticosteroid & creatinine ratio test. Yeah you are right about the supplements. I jst added back in CO Q 10 at a 300mg daily dose which I had been out of.. wonder if that is the culprit.....

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

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