Hi, I'm

[Guest guest]

welcome. i'm pretty new here myself.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Guest guest]

(Re-posted to avoid convusion-- Kassiane and I used the same title!

Great minds think alike : ~ ) )

Hi

First, I want to say hello to all my friends on the faceblind lists!

Thanks for your input- it helped me get here. : ~ )

I self-diagnosed as AS a couple of days ago, after extensive

reflection and reading, and after emailing one AS friend, and

talking with a number of NTs who either thought I am or that I might

be. I feel relief and an incredible joy in knowing that many of my

social errors, which I felt so convicted over and so horrible about,

are explained by the way my brain functions. Of course I did not

know the " rules " . And, of course, it was much harder- perhaps

thousands of times harder- for me to " have self control " (referring

to crying or yelling or otherwise being out of control emotionally)

in certain

situations than it is for an NT.

I was in denial for years that I was anything other than normal,

because I had been trained by experience that to be abnormal meant

to risk forfeiting rights and to lose credibility. I am glad that I

considered what I read and what people I trusted were saying.

Now, I am learning what it means to be this way- that there is good

in not being NT. I can remember day to day events back into baby-

hood, but I believe that this is hard for an NT, because when I

think of a painful experience, my eyes and face show it, and then NT

people around me are a bit uncomfortable if they do not know me

well. I just learned about this, because I do not read anyone's

eyes very well, and cannot read any but the most basic of emotions

from a face. Having given myself the freedom to recall memories all

my life, and to think unpleasant thoughts when I needed to for

reflection or planning, I cannot imagine denying myself that

flexibility.

I thank God for creating me according to His will, and trust that He

knows perfectly well what He is doing. It has been the desire of my

heart to be " normal " since I was about 9 years old. The desire of

my heart has changed- I am myself, and it is excellent. I have

learned in a matter of a few days to forgive the very things I hated

the most about myself, and to accept what I am. I am eager to meet

all of you- to learn and to try to connect. And, I am waiting to

have any pre-conceived ideas broken, if I possess any.

[Guest guest]

On 7/21/07, creativelywired <

>

> I was in denial for years that I was anything other than normal,

> because I had been trained by experience that to be abnormal meant

> to risk forfeiting rights and to lose credibility. >>>>>>>

>

aaaah but you are normal,

for a person on the spectrum, right?

k

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>First, I want to say hello to all my friends on the faceblind lists!

>Thanks for your input- it helped me get here. : ~ )

Hi, , welcome to the Tree House.

Jane

[Guest guest]

Hey , welcome.

a

> (Re-posted to avoid convusion-- Kassiane and I used the same title!

> Great minds think alike : ~ ) )

>

> Hi

>

> First, I want to say hello to all my friends on the faceblind lists!

> Thanks for your input- it helped me get here. : ~ )

>

> I self-diagnosed as AS a couple of days ago, after extensive

> reflection and reading, and after emailing one AS friend, and

> talking with a number of NTs who either thought I am or that I might

> be. I feel relief and an incredible joy in knowing that many of my

> social errors, which I felt so convicted over and so horrible about,

> are explained by the way my brain functions. Of course I did not

> know the " rules " . And, of course, it was much harder- perhaps

> thousands of times harder- for me to " have self control " (referring

> to crying or yelling or otherwise being out of control emotionally)

> in certain

> situations than it is for an NT.

>

> I was in denial for years that I was anything other than normal,

> because I had been trained by experience that to be abnormal meant

> to risk forfeiting rights and to lose credibility. I am glad that I

> considered what I read and what people I trusted were saying.

>

> Now, I am learning what it means to be this way- that there is good

> in not being NT. I can remember day to day events back into baby-

> hood, but I believe that this is hard for an NT, because when I

> think of a painful experience, my eyes and face show it, and then NT

> people around me are a bit uncomfortable if they do not know me

> well. I just learned about this, because I do not read anyone's

> eyes very well, and cannot read any but the most basic of emotions

> from a face. Having given myself the freedom to recall memories all

> my life, and to think unpleasant thoughts when I needed to for

> reflection or planning, I cannot imagine denying myself that

> flexibility.

>

> I thank God for creating me according to His will, and trust that He

> knows perfectly well what He is doing. It has been the desire of my

> heart to be " normal " since I was about 9 years old. The desire of

> my heart has changed- I am myself, and it is excellent. I have

> learned in a matter of a few days to forgive the very things I hated

> the most about myself, and to accept what I am. I am eager to meet

> all of you- to learn and to try to connect. And, I am waiting to

> have any pre-conceived ideas broken, if I possess any.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, K.!

KayeT wrote:

On 7/21/07, creativelywired <

>

> I was in denial for years that I was anything other than normal,

> because I had been trained by experience that to be abnormal meant

> to risk forfeiting rights and to lose credibility. >>>>>>>

>

aaaah but you are normal,

for a person on the spectrum, right?

k

[Guest guest]

Welcome!

>

> (Re-posted to avoid convusion-- Kassiane and I used the same title!

> Great minds think alike : ~ ) )

>

> Hi

>

> First, I want to say hello to all my friends on the faceblind lists!

> Thanks for your input- it helped me get here. : ~ )

>

> I self-diagnosed as AS a couple of days ago, after extensive

> reflection and reading, and after emailing one AS friend, and

> talking with a number of NTs who either thought I am or that I might

> be. I feel relief and an incredible joy in knowing that many of my

> social errors, which I felt so convicted over and so horrible about,

> are explained by the way my brain functions. Of course I did not

> know the " rules " . And, of course, it was much harder- perhaps

> thousands of times harder- for me to " have self control " (referring

> to crying or yelling or otherwise being out of control emotionally)

> in certain

> situations than it is for an NT.

>

> I was in denial for years that I was anything other than normal,

> because I had been trained by experience that to be abnormal meant

> to risk forfeiting rights and to lose credibility. I am glad that I

> considered what I read and what people I trusted were saying.

>

> Now, I am learning what it means to be this way- that there is good

> in not being NT. I can remember day to day events back into baby-

> hood, but I believe that this is hard for an NT, because when I

> think of a painful experience, my eyes and face show it, and then NT

> people around me are a bit uncomfortable if they do not know me

> well. I just learned about this, because I do not read anyone's

> eyes very well, and cannot read any but the most basic of emotions

> from a face. Having given myself the freedom to recall memories all

> my life, and to think unpleasant thoughts when I needed to for

> reflection or planning, I cannot imagine denying myself that

> flexibility.

>

> I thank God for creating me according to His will, and trust that He

> knows perfectly well what He is doing. It has been the desire of my

> heart to be " normal " since I was about 9 years old. The desire of

> my heart has changed- I am myself, and it is excellent. I have

> learned in a matter of a few days to forgive the very things I hated

> the most about myself, and to accept what I am. I am eager to meet

> all of you- to learn and to try to connect. And, I am waiting to

> have any pre-conceived ideas broken, if I possess any.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I could type in about 1000 smiley faces, but I don't want to annoy

people. Welcome to the spectrum!

:) :) :) :) :) :) :)

I can't think of words to say but ... I am just very happy you are here.

Rhonda

[Guest guest]

Rhonda,

Thanks for the great welcome! Smiles are one of the facial expressions I can

read and react to, and I do not mind them at all! I am from Los Angeles, whene

if you look at anyone, he or she wil smile at you- even if you are not smiling!

I learned to grin back to people in sixth grade, even without looking in

anyone's eyes. I am glad to be here! : c >

rhndroberts wrote:

I could type in about 1000 smiley faces, but I don't want to annoy

people. Welcome to the spectrum!

:) :) :) :) :) :) :)

I can't think of words to say but ... I am just very happy you are here.

Rhonda

---------------------------------

Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks for making me feel welcome! It is great to be here! (I love the name

" treehouse " - instead of " no girls allowed " or " no boys allowed " , it's " no NTs

allowed " .

De Carlo wrote:

Welcome!

>

> (Re-posted to avoid convusion-- Kassiane and I used the same title!

> Great minds think alike : ~ ) )

>

> Hi

>

> First, I want to say hello to all my friends on the faceblind lists!

> Thanks for your input- it helped me get here. : ~ )

>

> I self-diagnosed as AS a couple of days ago, after extensive

> reflection and reading, and after emailing one AS friend, and

> talking with a number of NTs who either thought I am or that I might

> be. I feel relief and an incredible joy in knowing that many of my

> social errors, which I felt so convicted over and so horrible about,

> are explained by the way my brain functions. Of course I did not

> know the " rules " . And, of course, it was much harder- perhaps

> thousands of times harder- for me to " have self control " (referring

> to crying or yelling or otherwise being out of control emotionally)

> in certain

> situations than it is for an NT.

>

> I was in denial for years that I was anything other than normal,

> because I had been trained by experience that to be abnormal meant

> to risk forfeiting rights and to lose credibility. I am glad that I

> considered what I read and what people I trusted were saying.

>

> Now, I am learning what it means to be this way- that there is good

> in not being NT. I can remember day to day events back into baby-

> hood, but I believe that this is hard for an NT, because when I

> think of a painful experience, my eyes and face show it, and then NT

> people around me are a bit uncomfortable if they do not know me

> well. I just learned about this, because I do not read anyone's

> eyes very well, and cannot read any but the most basic of emotions

> from a face. Having given myself the freedom to recall memories all

> my life, and to think unpleasant thoughts when I needed to for

> reflection or planning, I cannot imagine denying myself that

> flexibility.

>

> I thank God for creating me according to His will, and trust that He

> knows perfectly well what He is doing. It has been the desire of my

> heart to be " normal " since I was about 9 years old. The desire of

> my heart has changed- I am myself, and it is excellent. I have

> learned in a matter of a few days to forgive the very things I hated

> the most about myself, and to accept what I am. I am eager to meet

> all of you- to learn and to try to connect. And, I am waiting to

> have any pre-conceived ideas broken, if I possess any.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

a, Jane, and Alison,

Thanks for making me feel welcome!

" P.C. MacNeil " wrote:

Hey , welcome.

a

> (Re-posted to avoid convusion-- Kassiane and I used the same title!

> Great minds think alike : ~ ) )

>

> Hi

>

> First, I want to say hello to all my friends on the faceblind lists!

> Thanks for your input- it helped me get here. : ~ )

>

> I self-diagnosed as AS a couple of days ago, after extensive

> reflection and reading, and after emailing one AS friend, and

> talking with a number of NTs who either thought I am or that I might

> be. I feel relief and an incredible joy in knowing that many of my

> social errors, which I felt so convicted over and so horrible about,

> are explained by the way my brain functions. Of course I did not

> know the " rules " . And, of course, it was much harder- perhaps

> thousands of times harder- for me to " have self control " (referring

> to crying or yelling or otherwise being out of control emotionally)

> in certain

> situations than it is for an NT.

>

> I was in denial for years that I was anything other than normal,

> because I had been trained by experience that to be abnormal meant

> to risk forfeiting rights and to lose credibility. I am glad that I

> considered what I read and what people I trusted were saying.

>

> Now, I am learning what it means to be this way- that there is good

> in not being NT. I can remember day to day events back into baby-

> hood, but I believe that this is hard for an NT, because when I

> think of a painful experience, my eyes and face show it, and then NT

> people around me are a bit uncomfortable if they do not know me

> well. I just learned about this, because I do not read anyone's

> eyes very well, and cannot read any but the most basic of emotions

> from a face. Having given myself the freedom to recall memories all

> my life, and to think unpleasant thoughts when I needed to for

> reflection or planning, I cannot imagine denying myself that

> flexibility.

>

> I thank God for creating me according to His will, and trust that He

> knows perfectly well what He is doing. It has been the desire of my

> heart to be " normal " since I was about 9 years old. The desire of

> my heart has changed- I am myself, and it is excellent. I have

> learned in a matter of a few days to forgive the very things I hated

> the most about myself, and to accept what I am. I am eager to meet

> all of you- to learn and to try to connect. And, I am waiting to

> have any pre-conceived ideas broken, if I possess any.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This faceblind bussiness; did anyone realise that NTs read faces especially

eyes, prior to being told about it or is it just me and my brother?

It was like an epifany and really rocked my world in an unpleasent way when I

found out.

" P.C. MacNeil " wrote:

Hey , welcome.

a

> (Re-posted to avoid convusion-- Kassiane and I used the same title!

> Great minds think alike : ~ ) )

>

> Hi

>

> First, I want to say hello to all my friends on the faceblind lists!

> Thanks for your input- it helped me get here. : ~ )

>

> I self-diagnosed as AS a couple of days ago, after extensive

> reflection and reading, and after emailing one AS friend, and

> talking with a number of NTs who either thought I am or that I might

> be. I feel relief and an incredible joy in knowing that many of my

> social errors, which I felt so convicted over and so horrible about,

> are explained by the way my brain functions. Of course I did not

> know the " rules " . And, of course, it was much harder- perhaps

> thousands of times harder- for me to " have self control " (referring

> to crying or yelling or otherwise being out of control emotionally)

> in certain

> situations than it is for an NT.

>

> I was in denial for years that I was anything other than normal,

> because I had been trained by experience that to be abnormal meant

> to risk forfeiting rights and to lose credibility. I am glad that I

> considered what I read and what people I trusted were saying.

>

> Now, I am learning what it means to be this way- that there is good

> in not being NT. I can remember day to day events back into baby-

> hood, but I believe that this is hard for an NT, because when I

> think of a painful experience, my eyes and face show it, and then NT

> people around me are a bit uncomfortable if they do not know me

> well. I just learned about this, because I do not read anyone's

> eyes very well, and cannot read any but the most basic of emotions

> from a face. Having given myself the freedom to recall memories all

> my life, and to think unpleasant thoughts when I needed to for

> reflection or planning, I cannot imagine denying myself that

> flexibility.

>

> I thank God for creating me according to His will, and trust that He

> knows perfectly well what He is doing. It has been the desire of my

> heart to be " normal " since I was about 9 years old. The desire of

> my heart has changed- I am myself, and it is excellent. I have

> learned in a matter of a few days to forgive the very things I hated

> the most about myself, and to accept what I am. I am eager to meet

> all of you- to learn and to try to connect. And, I am waiting to

> have any pre-conceived ideas broken, if I possess any.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/31/2007 6:19:51 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

frankoldroyd2@... writes:

This faceblind bussiness; did anyone realise that NTs read faces especially

eyes, prior to being told about it or is it just me and my brother?

It was like an epifany and really rocked my world in an unpleasent way when

I found out.

nope, i read about it in a social skills pamphlet in high school and

wondered why no one had ever told me these things before

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Guest guest]

,

That was an epiphany to me as well! On the other hand, " face blind " is an

adjective that does not refer to reading emotions at all (see www.faceblind.org

for more information), and most of the people who are face blind are NT. It

only refers to recognizing the person. For a face blind NT, he or she would

recognize all the emotions ot the person, but just not know who the person is.

As for eyes, I am trying to learn to read the little bits that I can at

pressent- and practice what I have. I get some information from some people,

but have not tested out as NT (I was officially tested at Harvard for this, as

part of a study on something else, and the testers thought I am AS, and told me

so). My having failed to empathize in social situations where reading a face

was the primary clue led at least two people I know to ask me if I am AS. They

do not know each other, and both are NT. I think the only person who did not

know how far off I was in this area was I.

I was amazed when I learned this, that NTs can look at each other's eyes and

know how they feel, and then know how we feel. It puts a completely different

meaning to all their communications. For example, " How are you? " " Fine " now

means something completely different to me. Clearly, the NTs know how each

other is feeling, if it is a face to face conversation. So, the word " Fine " is

not a lie, but means something else. I will have to ask NTs more about this,

but I think it means that they are respecting each other's space not to share

feelings in words- not to talk about what is wrong if they do not want to- and

it may mean, " I feel as you are observing that I feel, but even though I am hurt

or scared or sad or grieved or worried orwhatever, I still have the strength to

be strong, " NTs seem to like it when another NT reads their eyes and asks,

" What's wrong " , or " How is (someone who was ill or hurt or in trouble) or

another question that relates to the actual

feeling.

I feel better about NTs, knowing that " fine " is not meant as a lie, but takes

into account actual communication.

My dad, who is NT, thinks that I can learn to read expressions in other ways,

even without reading eyes, to compensate. I am not too sure of all he has in

mind. (As a girl, I remember the many times that he did not read me correctly,

and took my actions as disrespect when they were not. I recently learned that

if an NT melts down, it often is disrespect, whereas for me, it certainly was

not. he really did not know!) Of course, my lack of eye contact did not help.

Now, it is easy to forgive his lack of understanding- after all, given all the

times I have failed to correctly read the emotions of others, it is not as if I

can judge anyone for failing to read mine. (I guess NTs can be a bit mindblind,

too. LOL)

frank oldroyd wrote:

This faceblind bussiness; did anyone realise that NTs read faces

especially eyes, prior to being told about it or is it just me and my brother?

It was like an epifany and really rocked my world in an unpleasent way when I

found out.

" P.C. MacNeil " wrote:

Hey , welcome.

a

> (Re-posted to avoid convusion-- Kassiane and I used the same title!

> Great minds think alike : ~ ) )

>

> Hi

>

> First, I want to say hello to all my friends on the faceblind lists!

> Thanks for your input- it helped me get here. : ~ )

>

> I self-diagnosed as AS a couple of days ago, after extensive

> reflection and reading, and after emailing one AS friend, and

> talking with a number of NTs who either thought I am or that I might

> be. I feel relief and an incredible joy in knowing that many of my

> social errors, which I felt so convicted over and so horrible about,

> are explained by the way my brain functions. Of course I did not

> know the " rules " . And, of course, it was much harder- perhaps

> thousands of times harder- for me to " have self control " (referring

> to crying or yelling or otherwise being out of control emotionally)

> in certain

> situations than it is for an NT.

>

> I was in denial for years that I was anything other than normal,

> because I had been trained by experience that to be abnormal meant

> to risk forfeiting rights and to lose credibility. I am glad that I

> considered what I read and what people I trusted were saying.

>

> Now, I am learning what it means to be this way- that there is good

> in not being NT. I can remember day to day events back into baby-

> hood, but I believe that this is hard for an NT, because when I

> think of a painful experience, my eyes and face show it, and then NT

> people around me are a bit uncomfortable if they do not know me

> well. I just learned about this, because I do not read anyone's

> eyes very well, and cannot read any but the most basic of emotions

> from a face. Having given myself the freedom to recall memories all

> my life, and to think unpleasant thoughts when I needed to for

> reflection or planning, I cannot imagine denying myself that

> flexibility.

>

> I thank God for creating me according to His will, and trust that He

> knows perfectly well what He is doing. It has been the desire of my

> heart to be " normal " since I was about 9 years old. The desire of

> my heart has changed- I am myself, and it is excellent. I have

> learned in a matter of a few days to forgive the very things I hated

> the most about myself, and to accept what I am. I am eager to meet

> all of you- to learn and to try to connect. And, I am waiting to

> have any pre-conceived ideas broken, if I possess any.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

>

> I was amazed when I learned this, that NTs can look at each other's eyes

> and know how they feel, and then know how we feel. It puts a completely

> different meaning to all their communications. For example, " How are

> you? " " Fine " now means something completely different to me. Clearly,

> the NTs know how each other is feeling, if it is a face to face

> conversation. So, the word " Fine " is not a lie, but means something else.

***I have a huge problem with this " How are you? - Fine! " scenario. It

irritates me to no end. At work I must play the game but it wears me down.

I'm always tired, due to insomnia and always in some type of pain, so I'm

not 'fine', but I have to lie. Then people will say " Good! " and I want to

scream!

I will have to ask NTs more about this, but I think it means that they are

respecting each other's space not to share feelings in words- not to talk

about what is wrong if they do not want to- and it may mean, " I feel as you

are observing that I feel, but even though I am hurt or scared or sad or

grieved or worried orwhatever, I still have the strength to be strong, "

***This makes no sense to me whatsoever. Why ask the question if you don't

want an honest answer?

NTs seem to like it when another NT reads their eyes and asks, " What's

wrong " , or " How is (someone who was ill or hurt or in trouble) or another

question that relates to the actual

> feeling.

>

> I feel better about NTs, knowing that " fine " is not meant as a lie, but

> takes into account actual communication.

***I didn't know that.

>

> My dad, who is NT, thinks that I can learn to read expressions in other

> ways, even without reading eyes, to compensate. I am not too sure of all

> he has in mind. (As a girl, I remember the many times that he did not

> read me correctly, and took my actions as disrespect when they were not.

> I recently learned that if an NT melts down, it often is disrespect,

> whereas for me, it certainly was not. he really did not know!) Of

> course, my lack of eye contact did not help. Now, it is easy to forgive

> his lack of understanding- after all, given all the times I have failed to

> correctly read the emotions of others, it is not as if I can judge anyone

> for failing to read mine. (I guess NTs can be a bit mindblind, too. LOL)

***Oh yes. Most NTs don't understand when I try to tell them how overwhelmed

I sometimes feel, how some things bother me that don't faze others. And then

they say we lack empathy?

D.

[Guest guest]

Most of the people who are faceblind are NT?

Re: Hi, I'm

,

That was an epiphany to me as well! On the other hand, " face blind " is an

adjective that does not refer to reading emotions at all (see www.faceblind. org

for more information) , and most of the people who are face blind are NT. It

only refers to recognizing the person. For a face blind NT, he or she would

recognize all the emotions ot the person, but just not know who the person is.

As for eyes, I am trying to learn to read the little bits that I can at

pressent- and practice what I have. I get some information from some people, but

have not tested out as NT (I was officially tested at Harvard for this, as part

of a study on something else, and the testers thought I am AS, and told me so).

My having failed to empathize in social situations where reading a face was the

primary clue led at least two people I know to ask me if I am AS. They do not

know each other, and both are NT. I think the only person who did not know how

far off I was in this area was I.

I was amazed when I learned this, that NTs can look at each other's eyes and

know how they feel, and then know how we feel. It puts a completely different

meaning to all their communications. For example, " How are you? " " Fine " now

means something completely different to me. Clearly, the NTs know how each other

is feeling, if it is a face to face conversation. So, the word " Fine " is not a

lie, but means something else. I will have to ask NTs more about this, but I

think it means that they are respecting each other's space not to share feelings

in words- not to talk about what is wrong if they do not want to- and it may

mean, " I feel as you are observing that I feel, but even though I am hurt or

scared or sad or grieved or worried orwhatever, I still have the strength to be

strong, " NTs seem to like it when another NT reads their eyes and asks, " What's

wrong " , or " How is (someone who was ill or hurt or in trouble) or another

question that relates to the

actual

feeling.

I feel better about NTs, knowing that " fine " is not meant as a lie, but takes

into account actual communication.

My dad, who is NT, thinks that I can learn to read expressions in other ways,

even without reading eyes, to compensate. I am not too sure of all he has in

mind. (As a girl, I remember the many times that he did not read me correctly,

and took my actions as disrespect when they were not. I recently learned that if

an NT melts down, it often is disrespect, whereas for me, it certainly was not.

he really did not know!) Of course, my lack of eye contact did not help. Now, it

is easy to forgive his lack of understanding- after all, given all the times I

have failed to correctly read the emotions of others, it is not as if I can

judge anyone for failing to read mine. (I guess NTs can be a bit mindblind, too.

LOL)

frank oldroyd <frankoldroyd2@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote:

This faceblind bussiness; did anyone realise that NTs read faces especially

eyes, prior to being told about it or is it just me and my brother?

It was like an epifany and really rocked my world in an unpleasent way when I

found out.

" P.C. MacNeil " <msp@.... ca> wrote:

Hey , welcome.

a

> (Re-posted to avoid convusion-- Kassiane and I used the same title!

> Great minds think alike : ~ ) )

>

> Hi

>

> First, I want to say hello to all my friends on the faceblind lists!

> Thanks for your input- it helped me get here. : ~ )

>

> I self-diagnosed as AS a couple of days ago, after extensive

> reflection and reading, and after emailing one AS friend, and

> talking with a number of NTs who either thought I am or that I might

> be. I feel relief and an incredible joy in knowing that many of my

> social errors, which I felt so convicted over and so horrible about,

> are explained by the way my brain functions. Of course I did not

> know the " rules " . And, of course, it was much harder- perhaps

> thousands of times harder- for me to " have self control " (referring

> to crying or yelling or otherwise being out of control emotionally)

> in certain

> situations than it is for an NT.

>

> I was in denial for years that I was anything other than normal,

> because I had been trained by experience that to be abnormal meant

> to risk forfeiting rights and to lose credibility. I am glad that I

> considered what I read and what people I trusted were saying.

>

> Now, I am learning what it means to be this way- that there is good

> in not being NT. I can remember day to day events back into baby-

> hood, but I believe that this is hard for an NT, because when I

> think of a painful experience, my eyes and face show it, and then NT

> people around me are a bit uncomfortable if they do not know me

> well. I just learned about this, because I do not read anyone's

> eyes very well, and cannot read any but the most basic of emotions

> from a face. Having given myself the freedom to recall memories all

> my life, and to think unpleasant thoughts when I needed to for

> reflection or planning, I cannot imagine denying myself that

> flexibility.

>

> I thank God for creating me according to His will, and trust that He

> knows perfectly well what He is doing. It has been the desire of my

> heart to be " normal " since I was about 9 years old. The desire of

> my heart has changed- I am myself, and it is excellent. I have

> learned in a matter of a few days to forgive the very things I hated

> the most about myself, and to accept what I am. I am eager to meet

> all of you- to learn and to try to connect. And, I am waiting to

> have any pre-conceived ideas broken, if I possess any.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Joanne,

That does look funny, soesn't it?

I mean NS (non-spectrum). : ~ )

joanne ford wrote:

Most of the people who are faceblind are NT?

Re: Hi, I'm

,

That was an epiphany to me as well! On the other hand, " face blind " is an

adjective that does not refer to reading emotions at all (see www.faceblind. org

for more information) , and most of the people who are face blind are NT. It

only refers to recognizing the person. For a face blind NT, he or she would

recognize all the emotions ot the person, but just not know who the person is.

As for eyes, I am trying to learn to read the little bits that I can at

pressent- and practice what I have. I get some information from some people, but

have not tested out as NT (I was officially tested at Harvard for this, as part

of a study on something else, and the testers thought I am AS, and told me so).

My having failed to empathize in social situations where reading a face was the

primary clue led at least two people I know to ask me if I am AS. They do not

know each other, and both are NT. I think the only person who did not know how

far off I was in this area was I.

I was amazed when I learned this, that NTs can look at each other's eyes and

know how they feel, and then know how we feel. It puts a completely different

meaning to all their communications. For example, " How are you? " " Fine " now

means something completely different to me. Clearly, the NTs know how each other

is feeling, if it is a face to face conversation. So, the word " Fine " is not a

lie, but means something else. I will have to ask NTs more about this, but I

think it means that they are respecting each other's space not to share feelings

in words- not to talk about what is wrong if they do not want to- and it may

mean, " I feel as you are observing that I feel, but even though I am hurt or

scared or sad or grieved or worried orwhatever, I still have the strength to be

strong, " NTs seem to like it when another NT reads their eyes and asks, " What's

wrong " , or " How is (someone who was ill or hurt or in trouble) or another

question that relates to the

actual

feeling.

I feel better about NTs, knowing that " fine " is not meant as a lie, but takes

into account actual communication.

My dad, who is NT, thinks that I can learn to read expressions in other ways,

even without reading eyes, to compensate. I am not too sure of all he has in

mind. (As a girl, I remember the many times that he did not read me correctly,

and took my actions as disrespect when they were not. I recently learned that if

an NT melts down, it often is disrespect, whereas for me, it certainly was not.

he really did not know!) Of course, my lack of eye contact did not help. Now, it

is easy to forgive his lack of understanding- after all, given all the times I

have failed to correctly read the emotions of others, it is not as if I can

judge anyone for failing to read mine. (I guess NTs can be a bit mindblind, too.

LOL)

frank oldroyd <frankoldroyd2@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote:

This faceblind bussiness; did anyone realise that NTs read faces especially

eyes, prior to being told about it or is it just me and my brother?

It was like an epifany and really rocked my world in an unpleasent way when I

found out.

" P.C. MacNeil " <msp@.... ca> wrote:

Hey , welcome.

a

> (Re-posted to avoid convusion-- Kassiane and I used the same title!

> Great minds think alike : ~ ) )

>

> Hi

>

> First, I want to say hello to all my friends on the faceblind lists!

> Thanks for your input- it helped me get here. : ~ )

>

> I self-diagnosed as AS a couple of days ago, after extensive

> reflection and reading, and after emailing one AS friend, and

> talking with a number of NTs who either thought I am or that I might

> be. I feel relief and an incredible joy in knowing that many of my

> social errors, which I felt so convicted over and so horrible about,

> are explained by the way my brain functions. Of course I did not

> know the " rules " . And, of course, it was much harder- perhaps

> thousands of times harder- for me to " have self control " (referring

> to crying or yelling or otherwise being out of control emotionally)

> in certain

> situations than it is for an NT.

>

> I was in denial for years that I was anything other than normal,

> because I had been trained by experience that to be abnormal meant

> to risk forfeiting rights and to lose credibility. I am glad that I

> considered what I read and what people I trusted were saying.

>

> Now, I am learning what it means to be this way- that there is good

> in not being NT. I can remember day to day events back into baby-

> hood, but I believe that this is hard for an NT, because when I

> think of a painful experience, my eyes and face show it, and then NT

> people around me are a bit uncomfortable if they do not know me

> well. I just learned about this, because I do not read anyone's

> eyes very well, and cannot read any but the most basic of emotions

> from a face. Having given myself the freedom to recall memories all

> my life, and to think unpleasant thoughts when I needed to for

> reflection or planning, I cannot imagine denying myself that

> flexibility.

>

> I thank God for creating me according to His will, and trust that He

> knows perfectly well what He is doing. It has been the desire of my

> heart to be " normal " since I was about 9 years old. The desire of

> my heart has changed- I am myself, and it is excellent. I have

> learned in a matter of a few days to forgive the very things I hated

> the most about myself, and to accept what I am. I am eager to meet

> all of you- to learn and to try to connect. And, I am waiting to

> have any pre-conceived ideas broken, if I possess any.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Princess,

same thing, NT Non Spectrum... most people who are faceblind are not on the

spectrum? Where did you get these stats? I'm willing to take a guess that most

people who are faceblind are closer to the spectrum than they will allow

themselves to think they are.

Read carefully what a lot of people say who claim (in even this group) only to

be faceblind. I see an awful lot of spectrum stuff happening along with their

faceblind stories. I mentioned that to ages ago.

Listen carefully! and if you have some stats, I'd love to see them.

jo

Re: Hi, I'm

,

That was an epiphany to me as well! On the other hand, " face blind " is an

adjective that does not refer to reading emotions at all (see www.faceblind. org

for more information) , and most of the people who are face blind are NT. It

only refers to recognizing the person. For a face blind NT, he or she would

recognize all the emotions ot the person, but just not know who the person is.

As for eyes, I am trying to learn to read the little bits that I can at

pressent- and practice what I have. I get some information from some people, but

have not tested out as NT (I was officially tested at Harvard for this, as part

of a study on something else, and the testers thought I am AS, and told me so).

My having failed to empathize in social situations where reading a face was the

primary clue led at least two people I know to ask me if I am AS. They do not

know each other, and both are NT. I think the only person who did not know how

far off I was in this area was I.

I was amazed when I learned this, that NTs can look at each other's eyes and

know how they feel, and then know how we feel. It puts a completely different

meaning to all their communications. For example, " How are you? " " Fine " now

means something completely different to me. Clearly, the NTs know how each other

is feeling, if it is a face to face conversation. So, the word " Fine " is not a

lie, but means something else. I will have to ask NTs more about this, but I

think it means that they are respecting each other's space not to share feelings

in words- not to talk about what is wrong if they do not want to- and it may

mean, " I feel as you are observing that I feel, but even though I am hurt or

scared or sad or grieved or worried orwhatever, I still have the strength to be

strong, " NTs seem to like it when another NT reads their eyes and asks, " What's

wrong " , or " How is (someone who was ill or hurt or in trouble) or another

question that relates to the

actual

feeling.

I feel better about NTs, knowing that " fine " is not meant as a lie, but takes

into account actual communication.

My dad, who is NT, thinks that I can learn to read expressions in other ways,

even without reading eyes, to compensate. I am not too sure of all he has in

mind. (As a girl, I remember the many times that he did not read me correctly,

and took my actions as disrespect when they were not. I recently learned that if

an NT melts down, it often is disrespect, whereas for me, it certainly was not.

he really did not know!) Of course, my lack of eye contact did not help. Now, it

is easy to forgive his lack of understanding- after all, given all the times I

have failed to correctly read the emotions of others, it is not as if I can

judge anyone for failing to read mine. (I guess NTs can be a bit mindblind, too.

LOL)

frank oldroyd <frankoldroyd2@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote:

This faceblind bussiness; did anyone realise that NTs read faces especially

eyes, prior to being told about it or is it just me and my brother?

It was like an epifany and really rocked my world in an unpleasent way when I

found out.

" P.C. MacNeil " <msp@.... ca> wrote:

Hey , welcome.

a

> (Re-posted to avoid convusion-- Kassiane and I used the same title!

> Great minds think alike : ~ ) )

>

> Hi

>

> First, I want to say hello to all my friends on the faceblind lists!

> Thanks for your input- it helped me get here. : ~ )

>

> I self-diagnosed as AS a couple of days ago, after extensive

> reflection and reading, and after emailing one AS friend, and

> talking with a number of NTs who either thought I am or that I might

> be. I feel relief and an incredible joy in knowing that many of my

> social errors, which I felt so convicted over and so horrible about,

> are explained by the way my brain functions. Of course I did not

> know the " rules " . And, of course, it was much harder- perhaps

> thousands of times harder- for me to " have self control " (referring

> to crying or yelling or otherwise being out of control emotionally)

> in certain

> situations than it is for an NT.

>

> I was in denial for years that I was anything other than normal,

> because I had been trained by experience that to be abnormal meant

> to risk forfeiting rights and to lose credibility. I am glad that I

> considered what I read and what people I trusted were saying.

>

> Now, I am learning what it means to be this way- that there is good

> in not being NT. I can remember day to day events back into baby-

> hood, but I believe that this is hard for an NT, because when I

> think of a painful experience, my eyes and face show it, and then NT

> people around me are a bit uncomfortable if they do not know me

> well. I just learned about this, because I do not read anyone's

> eyes very well, and cannot read any but the most basic of emotions

> from a face. Having given myself the freedom to recall memories all

> my life, and to think unpleasant thoughts when I needed to for

> reflection or planning, I cannot imagine denying myself that

> flexibility.

>

> I thank God for creating me according to His will, and trust that He

> knows perfectly well what He is doing. It has been the desire of my

> heart to be " normal " since I was about 9 years old. The desire of

> my heart has changed- I am myself, and it is excellent. I have

> learned in a matter of a few days to forgive the very things I hated

> the most about myself, and to accept what I am. I am eager to meet

> all of you- to learn and to try to connect. And, I am waiting to

> have any pre-conceived ideas broken, if I possess any.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

it's an exchange of greeting. I've heard in China they say " have you had lunch

yet " and it's not an invitation to lunch, it's a greeting. and we all know that

any NT has a greater capacity for lying than one on the spectrum IN GENERAL NOT

SPECIFICALLY INCLUSIVE TO ALL

Re: Hi, I'm

----- Original Message -----

From: " Princess " <creativelywired@ yahoo.com>

>

> I was amazed when I learned this, that NTs can look at each other's eyes

> and know how they feel, and then know how we feel. It puts a completely

> different meaning to all their communications. For example, " How are

> you? " " Fine " now means something completely different to me. Clearly,

> the NTs know how each other is feeling, if it is a face to face

> conversation. So, the word " Fine " is not a lie, but means something else.

***I have a huge problem with this " How are you? - Fine! " scenario. It

irritates me to no end. At work I must play the game but it wears me down.

I'm always tired, due to insomnia and always in some type of pain, so I'm

not 'fine', but I have to lie. Then people will say " Good! " and I want to

scream!

I will have to ask NTs more about this, but I think it means that they are

respecting each other's space not to share feelings in words- not to talk

about what is wrong if they do not want to- and it may mean, " I feel as you

are observing that I feel, but even though I am hurt or scared or sad or

grieved or worried orwhatever, I still have the strength to be strong, "

***This makes no sense to me whatsoever. Why ask the question if you don't

want an honest answer?

NTs seem to like it when another NT reads their eyes and asks, " What's

wrong " , or " How is (someone who was ill or hurt or in trouble) or another

question that relates to the actual

> feeling.

>

> I feel better about NTs, knowing that " fine " is not meant as a lie, but

> takes into account actual communication.

***I didn't know that.

>

> My dad, who is NT, thinks that I can learn to read expressions in other

> ways, even without reading eyes, to compensate. I am not too sure of all

> he has in mind. (As a girl, I remember the many times that he did not

> read me correctly, and took my actions as disrespect when they were not.

> I recently learned that if an NT melts down, it often is disrespect,

> whereas for me, it certainly was not. he really did not know!) Of

> course, my lack of eye contact did not help. Now, it is easy to forgive

> his lack of understanding- after all, given all the times I have failed to

> correctly read the emotions of others, it is not as if I can judge anyone

> for failing to read mine. (I guess NTs can be a bit mindblind, too. LOL)

***Oh yes. Most NTs don't understand when I try to tell them how overwhelmed

I sometimes feel, how some things bother me that don't faze others. And then

they say we lack empathy?

D.

[Guest guest]

If " have you had lunch yet? " is a greeting, then would the correct answer be

" yes " or " no " ? Or is it just polite conversation with no correct answer

(kind of like " how about that weather? " )?

>

> it's an exchange of greeting. I've heard in China they say " have you had

> lunch yet " and it's not an invitation to lunch, it's a greeting. and we all

> know that any NT has a greater capacity for lying than one on the spectrum

> IN GENERAL NOT SPECIFICALLY INCLUSIVE TO ALL

>

> Re: Hi, I'm

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " Princess " <creativelywired@ yahoo.com>

> >

> > I was amazed when I learned this, that NTs can look at each other's eyes

>

> > and know how they feel, and then know how we feel. It puts a completely

> > different meaning to all their communications. For example, " How are

> > you? " " Fine " now means something completely different to me. Clearly,

> > the NTs know how each other is feeling, if it is a face to face

> > conversation. So, the word " Fine " is not a lie, but means something

> else.

>

> ***I have a huge problem with this " How are you? - Fine! " scenario. It

> irritates me to no end. At work I must play the game but it wears me down.

>

> I'm always tired, due to insomnia and always in some type of pain, so I'm

> not 'fine', but I have to lie. Then people will say " Good! " and I want to

> scream!

>

> I will have to ask NTs more about this, but I think it means that they are

>

> respecting each other's space not to share feelings in words- not to talk

> about what is wrong if they do not want to- and it may mean, " I feel as

> you

> are observing that I feel, but even though I am hurt or scared or sad or

> grieved or worried orwhatever, I still have the strength to be strong, "

>

> ***This makes no sense to me whatsoever. Why ask the question if you don't

>

> want an honest answer?

>

> NTs seem to like it when another NT reads their eyes and asks, " What's

> wrong " , or " How is (someone who was ill or hurt or in trouble) or another

> question that relates to the actual

> > feeling.

> >

> > I feel better about NTs, knowing that " fine " is not meant as a lie, but

> > takes into account actual communication.

>

> ***I didn't know that.

>

> >

> > My dad, who is NT, thinks that I can learn to read expressions in other

> > ways, even without reading eyes, to compensate. I am not too sure of all

>

> > he has in mind. (As a girl, I remember the many times that he did not

> > read me correctly, and took my actions as disrespect when they were not.

>

> > I recently learned that if an NT melts down, it often is disrespect,

> > whereas for me, it certainly was not. he really did not know!) Of

> > course, my lack of eye contact did not help. Now, it is easy to forgive

> > his lack of understanding- after all, given all the times I have failed

> to

> > correctly read the emotions of others, it is not as if I can judge

> anyone

> > for failing to read mine. (I guess NTs can be a bit mindblind, too. LOL)

>

> ***Oh yes. Most NTs don't understand when I try to tell them how

> overwhelmed

> I sometimes feel, how some things bother me that don't faze others. And

> then

> they say we lack empathy?

>

> D.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Delila wrote:

----- Original Message -----

>

> I was amazed when I learned this, that NTs can look at each other's eyes

> and know how they feel, and then know how we feel. It puts a completely

> different meaning to all their communications. For example, " How are

> you? " " Fine " now means something completely different to me. Clearly,

> the NTs know how each other is feeling, if it is a face to face

> conversation. So, the word " Fine " is not a lie, but means something else.

***I have a huge problem with this " How are you? - Fine! " scenario. It

irritates me to no end. At work I must play the game but it wears me down.

I'm always tired, due to insomnia and always in some type of pain, so I'm

not 'fine', but I have to lie. Then people will say " Good! " and I want to

scream!

NTs seem to like it when another NT reads their eyes and asks, " What's

wrong " , or " How is (someone who was ill or hurt or in trouble) or another

question that relates to the actual

> feeling.

>

> I feel better about NTs, knowing that " fine " is not meant as a lie, but

> takes into account actual communication.

***I didn't know that.

\\\When you say, " Fine " , you are actually telling the truth, because NTs can

read your feelings in your eyes. If you look at their eyes, then you are making

it easier for them to read yours, and then, you are being very honest, because

your body language is saying it all. They see how overwhelmed you are. They do

not understand why you are overwhelmed, but they know that you are, and they

have to care- they are wired for that, just like we are wired the way we are.

>

> My dad, who is NT, thinks that I can learn to read expressions in other

> ways, even without reading eyes, to compensate. I am not too sure of all

> he has in mind. (As a girl, I remember the many times that he did not

> read me correctly, and took my actions as disrespect when they were not.

> I recently learned that if an NT melts down, it often is disrespect,

> whereas for me, it certainly was not. he really did not know!) Of

> course, my lack of eye contact did not help. Now, it is easy to forgive

> his lack of understanding- after all, given all the times I have failed to

> correctly read the emotions of others, it is not as if I can judge anyone

> for failing to read mine. (I guess NTs can be a bit mindblind, too. LOL)

***Oh yes. Most NTs don't understand when I try to tell them how overwhelmed

I sometimes feel, how some things bother me that don't faze others. And then

they say we lack empathy?

D.

\\\I feel overwhelmed by too many of something at one time, too. I am trying

to work on what an aspie friend calls " executive functioning " - maybe it will

make me feel less overwhelmed.

---------------------------------

Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!

[Guest guest]

If the " official " stats are 1 out of 50 people are faceblind, 1 out of 150

people are on the spectrum, and not everyone on the spectrum is faceblind,

then more than two out of three faceblind people are not on the spectrum.

(I can't remember what the actual numbers are, or the actual " official "

numbers, but these numbers are what I remember. I don't have the time or

energy to look anything up.)

>

> Princess,

>

> same thing, NT Non Spectrum... most people who are faceblind are not on

> the spectrum? Where did you get these stats? I'm willing to take a guess

> that most people who are faceblind are closer to the spectrum than they will

> allow themselves to think they are.

>

> Read carefully what a lot of people say who claim (in even this group)

> only to be faceblind. I see an awful lot of spectrum stuff happening along

> with their faceblind stories. I mentioned that to ages ago.

>

> Listen carefully! and if you have some stats, I'd love to see them.

>

> jo

>

> Re: Hi, I'm

>

> ,

>

> That was an epiphany to me as well! On the other hand, " face blind " is an

> adjective that does not refer to reading emotions at all (see

> www.faceblind. org for more information) , and most of the people who are

> face blind are NT. It only refers to recognizing the person. For a face

> blind NT, he or she would recognize all the emotions ot the person, but just

> not know who the person is.

>

> As for eyes, I am trying to learn to read the little bits that I can at

> pressent- and practice what I have. I get some information from some people,

> but have not tested out as NT (I was officially tested at Harvard for this,

> as part of a study on something else, and the testers thought I am AS, and

> told me so). My having failed to empathize in social situations where

> reading a face was the primary clue led at least two people I know to ask me

> if I am AS. They do not know each other, and both are NT. I think the only

> person who did not know how far off I was in this area was I.

>

> I was amazed when I learned this, that NTs can look at each other's eyes

> and know how they feel, and then know how we feel. It puts a completely

> different meaning to all their communications. For example, " How are you? "

> " Fine " now means something completely different to me. Clearly, the NTs know

> how each other is feeling, if it is a face to face conversation. So, the

> word " Fine " is not a lie, but means something else. I will have to ask NTs

> more about this, but I think it means that they are respecting each other's

> space not to share feelings in words- not to talk about what is wrong if

> they do not want to- and it may mean, " I feel as you are observing that I

> feel, but even though I am hurt or scared or sad or grieved or worried

> orwhatever, I still have the strength to be strong, " NTs seem to like it

> when another NT reads their eyes and asks, " What's wrong " , or " How is

> (someone who was ill or hurt or in trouble) or another question that relates

> to the

> actual

> feeling.

>

> I feel better about NTs, knowing that " fine " is not meant as a lie, but

> takes into account actual communication.

>

> My dad, who is NT, thinks that I can learn to read expressions in other

> ways, even without reading eyes, to compensate. I am not too sure of all he

> has in mind. (As a girl, I remember the many times that he did not read me

> correctly, and took my actions as disrespect when they were not. I recently

> learned that if an NT melts down, it often is disrespect, whereas for me, it

> certainly was not. he really did not know!) Of course, my lack of eye

> contact did not help. Now, it is easy to forgive his lack of understanding-

> after all, given all the times I have failed to correctly read the emotions

> of others, it is not as if I can judge anyone for failing to read mine. (I

> guess NTs can be a bit mindblind, too. LOL)

>

>

>

> frank oldroyd <frankoldroyd2@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote:

> This faceblind bussiness; did anyone realise that NTs read faces

> especially eyes, prior to being told about it or is it just me and my

> brother?

> It was like an epifany and really rocked my world in an unpleasent way

> when I found out.

>

>

> " P.C. MacNeil " <msp@... <msp%40ns.sympatico>. ca> wrote:

> Hey , welcome.

>

> a

>

>

> > (Re-posted to avoid convusion-- Kassiane and I used the same title!

> > Great minds think alike : ~ ) )

> >

> > Hi

> >

> > First, I want to say hello to all my friends on the faceblind lists!

> > Thanks for your input- it helped me get here. : ~ )

> >

> > I self-diagnosed as AS a couple of days ago, after extensive

> > reflection and reading, and after emailing one AS friend, and

> > talking with a number of NTs who either thought I am or that I might

> > be. I feel relief and an incredible joy in knowing that many of my

> > social errors, which I felt so convicted over and so horrible about,

> > are explained by the way my brain functions. Of course I did not

> > know the " rules " . And, of course, it was much harder- perhaps

> > thousands of times harder- for me to " have self control " (referring

> > to crying or yelling or otherwise being out of control emotionally)

> > in certain

> > situations than it is for an NT.

> >

> > I was in denial for years that I was anything other than normal,

> > because I had been trained by experience that to be abnormal meant

> > to risk forfeiting rights and to lose credibility. I am glad that I

> > considered what I read and what people I trusted were saying.

> >

> > Now, I am learning what it means to be this way- that there is good

> > in not being NT. I can remember day to day events back into baby-

> > hood, but I believe that this is hard for an NT, because when I

> > think of a painful experience, my eyes and face show it, and then NT

> > people around me are a bit uncomfortable if they do not know me

> > well. I just learned about this, because I do not read anyone's

> > eyes very well, and cannot read any but the most basic of emotions

> > from a face. Having given myself the freedom to recall memories all

> > my life, and to think unpleasant thoughts when I needed to for

> > reflection or planning, I cannot imagine denying myself that

> > flexibility.

> >

> > I thank God for creating me according to His will, and trust that He

> > knows perfectly well what He is doing. It has been the desire of my

> > heart to be " normal " since I was about 9 years old. The desire of

> > my heart has changed- I am myself, and it is excellent. I have

> > learned in a matter of a few days to forgive the very things I hated

> > the most about myself, and to accept what I am. I am eager to meet

> > all of you- to learn and to try to connect. And, I am waiting to

> > have any pre-conceived ideas broken, if I possess any.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

not sure, as i said, i heard about it from somewhere. one who had just come

backfrom china, the other still there. didn't find out the answer

maybe it's yes, implying well fed: happy, fine whatever. apparently it doesnt

even depend on the time of day

jo

Re: Hi, I'm

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " Princess " <creativelywired@ yahoo.com>

> >

> > I was amazed when I learned this, that NTs can look at each other's eyes

>

> > and know how they feel, and then know how we feel. It puts a completely

> > different meaning to all their communications. For example, " How are

> > you? " " Fine " now means something completely different to me. Clearly,

> > the NTs know how each other is feeling, if it is a face to face

> > conversation. So, the word " Fine " is not a lie, but means something

> else.

>

> ***I have a huge problem with this " How are you? - Fine! " scenario. It

> irritates me to no end. At work I must play the game but it wears me down.

>

> I'm always tired, due to insomnia and always in some type of pain, so I'm

> not 'fine', but I have to lie. Then people will say " Good! " and I want to

> scream!

>

> I will have to ask NTs more about this, but I think it means that they are

>

> respecting each other's space not to share feelings in words- not to talk

> about what is wrong if they do not want to- and it may mean, " I feel as

> you

> are observing that I feel, but even though I am hurt or scared or sad or

> grieved or worried orwhatever, I still have the strength to be strong, "

>

> ***This makes no sense to me whatsoever. Why ask the question if you don't

>

> want an honest answer?

>

> NTs seem to like it when another NT reads their eyes and asks, " What's

> wrong " , or " How is (someone who was ill or hurt or in trouble) or another

> question that relates to the actual

> > feeling.

> >

> > I feel better about NTs, knowing that " fine " is not meant as a lie, but

> > takes into account actual communication.

>

> ***I didn't know that.

>

> >

> > My dad, who is NT, thinks that I can learn to read expressions in other

> > ways, even without reading eyes, to compensate. I am not too sure of all

>

> > he has in mind. (As a girl, I remember the many times that he did not

> > read me correctly, and took my actions as disrespect when they were not.

>

> > I recently learned that if an NT melts down, it often is disrespect,

> > whereas for me, it certainly was not. he really did not know!) Of

> > course, my lack of eye contact did not help. Now, it is easy to forgive

> > his lack of understanding- after all, given all the times I have failed

> to

> > correctly read the emotions of others, it is not as if I can judge

> anyone

> > for failing to read mine. (I guess NTs can be a bit mindblind, too. LOL)

>

> ***Oh yes. Most NTs don't understand when I try to tell them how

> overwhelmed

> I sometimes feel, how some things bother me that don't faze others. And

> then

> they say we lack empathy?

>

> D.

>

>

[Guest guest]

It will take a lot of convincing for me to agree that NTs automatically discern

feelings from eyes. I hope I am not responding to sacasm, I'm taking this

literally.

I have spent months (years) with NTs learning to counsel others as part of my

training for my Master of Divinity (training to be a christian priest). We have

sat in circles with intentionality being taught to read body language. First to

describe exactly the tilt of the head, the lean to the body, tapping, movements,

eye contact etc. If NTs could just 'look into someone's eyes' then they

wouldn't need this sort of instruction.

It's not magic for them, either. Also I raised 13 foster kids over 20 years.

Nowhere was that sort of 'mind reading' evident. I taught school, again no

evidence of this.

Some MBTI personality types, especailly the ones with an F in them, are better

at intuitively telling feelings of others. But often when anyone looks at

another and their circumstance and says " ah hah, i know what you are feeling "

they are projecting their own feelings on to the other. In fact, let's say

Genyin is telling a friend that someone tried to trip her as she got on to the

bus. The friend might have an anger response, maybe even call that person a

name. But Genyin, who has spent years in meditiation and learning to know

herself and others, has a higher level of 'maturity?' and does not feel angry at

all, simply bemused, and really is quite at peace inside. Her friend, who has

never known yet what it feelsl like to be at peace inside (very few do) can't

understand that Genyin feels the way she does, nor can they believe that it is

even possible. It has never been part of their life experience, therefore it

doesnt happen.

ok enough rambling -jo

Re: Hi, I'm

Delila <watertiger9@ verizon.net> wrote:

----- Original Message -----

From: " Princess " <creativelywired@ yahoo.com>

>

> I was amazed when I learned this, that NTs can look at each other's eyes

> and know how they feel, and then know how we feel. It puts a completely

> different meaning to all their communications. For example, " How are

> you? " " Fine " now means something completely different to me. Clearly,

> the NTs know how each other is feeling, if it is a face to face

> conversation. So, the word " Fine " is not a lie, but means something else.

***I have a huge problem with this " How are you? - Fine! " scenario. It

irritates me to no end. At work I must play the game but it wears me down.

I'm always tired, due to insomnia and always in some type of pain, so I'm

not 'fine', but I have to lie. Then people will say " Good! " and I want to

scream!

NTs seem to like it when another NT reads their eyes and asks, " What's

wrong " , or " How is (someone who was ill or hurt or in trouble) or another

question that relates to the actual

> feeling.

>

> I feel better about NTs, knowing that " fine " is not meant as a lie, but

> takes into account actual communication.

***I didn't know that.

\\\When you say, " Fine " , you are actually telling the truth, because NTs can

read your feelings in your eyes. If you look at their eyes, then you are making

it easier for them to read yours, and then, you are being very honest, because

your body language is saying it all. They see how overwhelmed you are. They do

not understand why you are overwhelmed, but they know that you are, and they

have to care- they are wired for that, just like we are wired the way we are.

>

> My dad, who is NT, thinks that I can learn to read expressions in other

> ways, even without reading eyes, to compensate. I am not too sure of all

> he has in mind. (As a girl, I remember the many times that he did not

> read me correctly, and took my actions as disrespect when they were not.

> I recently learned that if an NT melts down, it often is disrespect,

> whereas for me, it certainly was not. he really did not know!) Of

> course, my lack of eye contact did not help. Now, it is easy to forgive

> his lack of understanding- after all, given all the times I have failed to

> correctly read the emotions of others, it is not as if I can judge anyone

> for failing to read mine. (I guess NTs can be a bit mindblind, too. LOL)

***Oh yes. Most NTs don't understand when I try to tell them how overwhelmed

I sometimes feel, how some things bother me that don't faze others. And then

they say we lack empathy?

D.

\\\I feel overwhelmed by too many of something at one time, too. I am trying to

work on what an aspie friend calls " executive functioning " - maybe it will make

me feel less overwhelmed.

------------ --------- --------- ---

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[Guest guest]

These are the " official " stats, but I think the 1 out of 150 for spectrumites is

an underestimate. I believe this means how many are offically diagnosed.

People over a certain age are less likely to be diagnosed, and by the time we

live 40 or 50 years we've learned some ways to cope and pass for NT. But I

wouldn't be surprised if 1 out of 50 people are spectrumites as well. -- Joni

Re:

If the " official " stats are 1 out of 50 people are faceblind, 1 out of 150

people are on the spectrum, and not everyone on the spectrum is faceblind,

then more than two out of three faceblind people are not on the spectrum.

(I can't remember what the actual numbers are, or the actual " official "

numbers, but these numbers are what I remember. I don't have the time or

energy to look anything up.)

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