Re: links between mbti and AS

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

> but do you really like things like Thanksgiving and other holidays and are

> they important to you?

No, I hate them actually. I grew up in Germany, where TG isn't celebrated,

so it's not something that's 'dear' to me, same for Halloween, although I

have nothing against it. But ever since working in retail, holidays are a

lot more stressful than before. I'm kind of burned out on holidays, because

in retail there's no respite. As soon as xmess is over, out come the

Valentine's Day things, then Easter, then Mother's Day and so on... As far

as I'm concerned, most holidays are just ploys to pull money out of gullible

people's pockets.

> Laws - doesn't mean that you like them so much as you like to see things

> regulated, in your life and to keep order (somehow) in the world around

> you...

Yes, like I said common-sense laws are good and necessary.

D.

[Guest guest]

I see holidays as a time for family to be together - biological or

otherwise.

I try hard to stay away from stores and do not drive as much during

holiday seasons, however, as THAT gets me stressed and overwhelmed.

This past Christmas, I did nearly all my shopping (what little I could

do) via Avon and eBay (internet in general). It went better for me.

I agree with D. about the necessity of common-sense laws. I feel that

way about traditions also.

My mil always has major holidays and insists on doing the entire meal

herself. I don't argue, I just help her with the cleanup and washing

dishes afterwards (since her three grown daughters never seem to think

of this assistance themselves). My husband is a mess at washing dishes.

kw

[Guest guest]

I hate holidays for the same reason...

Re: links between mbti and AS

----- Original Message -----

From: " joanne ford " <joannefordrogers (DOT) com>

> but do you really like things like Thanksgiving and other holidays and are

> they important to you?

No, I hate them actually. I grew up in Germany, where TG isn't celebrated,

so it's not something that's 'dear' to me, same for Halloween, although I

have nothing against it. But ever since working in retail, holidays are a

lot more stressful than before. I'm kind of burned out on holidays, because

in retail there's no respite. As soon as xmess is over, out come the

Valentine's Day things, then Easter, then Mother's Day and so on... As far

as I'm concerned, most holidays are just ploys to pull money out of gullible

people's pockets.

> Laws - doesn't mean that you like them so much as you like to see things

> regulated, in your life and to keep order (somehow) in the world around

> you...

Yes, like I said common-sense laws are good and necessary.

D.

[Guest guest]

-INTP when I took the official test, except when I took the test

online, for awhile I was INFP, but just borderline. Then, I looked at

jobs I have had and many of those feel into the ISFP category, sort

of, since I do music and art. I ended up saying I am an IXXP. The I

and P are very strong. I suppose I am really an INT/FP. I haven't

taken an online mbti test for way over a year! It used to be one of my

fixations, and everyone in my family and immediate environs had to

hear about the mbti nonstop. I will bet I am back to just plain old

INTP these days. This is reminding me of how FUN that fixation was. Uh-

oh!

Rhonda

[Guest guest]

Ihave always said I base " emotional " decisions on what I think about

how I feel, whereas others base decisions on how they feel about what

they think (I think), or maybe just on how they feel without even

thinking. I read that NTs make decisions based on emotions so I guess

that's how they do it.

(Non-mbti paragraph): I also read that people with alexithymia make

decisions based on " logic " rather than emotions. I haven't found a

lot of good info on alexithymia but when I read a bit about it

initially I thought it described me at least in part. (ithymia is

something having to do with the inability to feel emotion. I do feel

emotion but it seems to be attenuated somehow, and it doesn't enter

into my decision-making.... and I can see how that is not always a

good thing, since I will decide to do something that is not very good

for me because it seems to be the " correct " thing to do. People who

know me would say I am " very emotional, " especially people who have

seen me having meltdowns. To me meltdowns and emotions are not quite

the same.)

Maybe I ought to go to the alex chat site that I never visit, and see

what mbti everyone is... that could get me started on an entirely new

revisitation of the mbti!

Rhonda

>

> > I scored as an ISTJ, but had difficulty with the Thinking versus

> > Feeling.

> >

> > I am unsettled by disharmony and get very upset by it, and I do

try to

> > take people's feelings and needs into account in everything I do

(I

> > take care of my family of four, after all) -- but largely I am on

the

> > Thinking side, which doesn't take those aspects into account.

> >

> > So maybe I am an IST/FJ? :-)

>

> it sounds like perhaps you deliberately think about how others

might

> feel concerning what you do. i can do this, but i really *think*

about

> it, instead of just *feeling* it. it also sounds like you

understand

> your family responsibilities, so you wish to take care of them. you

are

> doing things that gender roles have said that the moms do, so it

would

> make sense to me that you would think more about these things than

if

> you were a father but otherwise the same (and not just because it

was

> your innate nature), especially since " ISTJs tend to believe in

laws and

> traditions. "

>

> just something to think about.

>

> -dave

> --

> (intp) 55.22682% - Extreme Geek 20 of 159:

> computers let you take laziness to a whole new level. - mrak

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm ENFP, borderline INFP.

--

the Dreamer

http://www.visi.com/~unique

[Guest guest]

I had that same fixation too - ! Part of it was from trying to make sense of

myself and the world around me. It's been a couple of years since I was

actively fixated on this too.

Joanne

Re: links between mbti and AS

-INTP when I took the official test, except when I took the test

online, for awhile I was INFP, but just borderline. Then, I looked at

jobs I have had and many of those feel into the ISFP category, sort

of, since I do music and art. I ended up saying I am an IXXP. The I

and P are very strong. I suppose I am really an INT/FP. I haven't

taken an online mbti test for way over a year! It used to be one of my

fixations, and everyone in my family and immediate environs had to

hear about the mbti nonstop. I will bet I am back to just plain old

INTP these days. This is reminding me of how FUN that fixation was. Uh-

oh!

Rhonda

[Guest guest]

would that NT be iNtuitiveThinking or Neurotypical?

NT iNtuitive Thinking make decisions mostly on their T

Neurotypical, however, can be at either end of the T/F just like any of us.

Joanne

Re: links between mbti and AS

Ihave always said I base " emotional " decisions on what I think about

how I feel, whereas others base decisions on how they feel about what

they think (I think), or maybe just on how they feel without even

thinking. I read that NTs make decisions based on emotions so I guess

that's how they do it.

(Non-mbti paragraph): I also read that people with alexithymia make

decisions based on " logic " rather than emotions. I haven't found a

lot of good info on alexithymia but when I read a bit about it

initially I thought it described me at least in part. (ithymia is

something having to do with the inability to feel emotion. I do feel

emotion but it seems to be attenuated somehow, and it doesn't enter

into my decision-making. ... and I can see how that is not always a

good thing, since I will decide to do something that is not very good

for me because it seems to be the " correct " thing to do. People who

know me would say I am " very emotional, " especially people who have

seen me having meltdowns. To me meltdowns and emotions are not quite

the same.)

Maybe I ought to go to the alex chat site that I never visit, and see

what mbti everyone is... that could get me started on an entirely new

revisitation of the mbti!

Rhonda

>

> > I scored as an ISTJ, but had difficulty with the Thinking versus

> > Feeling.

> >

> > I am unsettled by disharmony and get very upset by it, and I do

try to

> > take people's feelings and needs into account in everything I do

(I

> > take care of my family of four, after all) -- but largely I am on

the

> > Thinking side, which doesn't take those aspects into account.

> >

> > So maybe I am an IST/FJ? :-)

>

> it sounds like perhaps you deliberately think about how others

might

> feel concerning what you do. i can do this, but i really *think*

about

> it, instead of just *feeling* it. it also sounds like you

understand

> your family responsibilities, so you wish to take care of them. you

are

> doing things that gender roles have said that the moms do, so it

would

> make sense to me that you would think more about these things than

if

> you were a father but otherwise the same (and not just because it

was

> your innate nature), especially since " ISTJs tend to believe in

laws and

> traditions. "

>

> just something to think about.

>

> -dave

> --

> (intp) 55.22682% - Extreme Geek 20 of 159:

> computers let you take laziness to a whole new level. - mrak

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Knowing about this has helped me to understand my experience in a religious

cult, whose very charismatic leader was very much a " F " eeling type. He

harrassed me when I said things like " I think... " or " I thought... " said that

that meant that I was basing my life on " thinking " , which was inferior and

misleading, he said, to " feeling " , which he said was more " spiritual " and

" true " . He further said that I " needed to get in touch with my feelings " and in

the meantime I had to trust him to make certain kinds of decisions for me. He

bragged that he " always went with his gut " and so he was 'never wrong'. When he

drove me to a suicide attempt, they told me at the hospital that I had been in

an abusive relationship and and my recovery depended on having no more to do

with him or his cult. The members of the cult tried a few times to get back in

touch with me, and I told them this. Finally the leader himself contacted me

and told me to stop telling lies about him. By then I

realised that he was a very sick individual, and I was free. (Last I heard,

his wife divorced him and got their children, and most of his followers have

left him as well.)

This is an example of intolorance of neurodiversity. The cult leader was a

" F " type, and he thought that everyone should be that way. If I'd known about

these different personality types, and that all are valid, maybe I could have

called him on his BS rather than letting it get to me.

---------------------------------

Finding fabulous fares is fun.

Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel

bargains.

[Guest guest]

There's a lot more to being neurotypical than making decisions based on emotion.

Most of what sets us apart from NT's involves differences in sensory processing

and manner of social interaction. Social interactions don't come intuitively to

us, we must learn them consciously and painstakingly like learning the rules of

a game. -- Joni

Re:

Posted by: " joanne ford " joanneford@... rochet24 Sat Mar 24, 2007

4:51 am (PST) would that NT be iNtuitiveThinking or Neurotypical?

NT iNtuitive Thinking make decisions mostly on their T

Neurotypical, however, can be at either end of the T/F just like any of us.

Joanne

---------------------------------

TV dinner still cooling?

Check out " Tonight's Picks " on Yahoo! TV.

[Guest guest]

I got thrown out of a 'cultish' church over the same thing. They never thought

I was 'repentant' enough and the miscommunication was awful, and they never

stopped ot ask me about it at all. It was an Anglican church, believe it or

not. (I think that sexual orientation was likely an issue too, but they never

spoke of it.) I didn't even know anything about the possiblity of being thrown

out, until I got the email telling me not to go back there. Even the bishop

wasn't consulted.

I almost lost my mental health there, and until that experience I had very few

'autistic' behaviours so to speak. They increased like crazy while I was there.

I began to study personality, and realized my INTJ was really different than

most of the SF and SJ people there. That was the best explanation I could come

up with for my 'differences'. It wasn't until almost three years later ( a few

weeks ago) that I began to put autism together with what had heppened there -

because I hadn't heard about it before and now realize that I am autistic. I

lmost completely lost my mental health, and if they hadn't kicked me out, my

diagnosis would have been 'suicidal' and I would have been forced to try

anti-depressants. (I did, for about 2 weeks, until I sensed my thinking change,

and I didn't like that so I went off them)

I have never been suicidal in my entire life, but during that church experience,

it was awful. It .has been really hard losing my entire community of friends,

but I guess they really weren't my friends anyway.

My sympathy to you!

Joanne

Re: links between mbti and AS

Knowing about this has helped me to understand my experience in a religious

cult, whose very charismatic leader was very much a " F " eeling type. He harrassed

me when I said things like " I think... " or " I thought... " said that that meant

that I was basing my life on " thinking " , which was inferior and misleading, he

said, to " feeling " , which he said was more " spiritual " and " true " . He further

said that I " needed to get in touch with my feelings " and in the meantime I had

to trust him to make certain kinds of decisions for me. He bragged that he

" always went with his gut " and so he was 'never wrong'. When he drove me to a

suicide attempt, they told me at the hospital that I had been in an abusive

relationship and and my recovery depended on having no more to do with him or

his cult. The members of the cult tried a few times to get back in touch with

me, and I told them this. Finally the leader himself contacted me and told me to

stop telling lies about him. By then I

realised that he was a very sick individual, and I was free. (Last I heard, his

wife divorced him and got their children, and most of his followers have left

him as well.)

This is an example of intolorance of neurodiversity. The cult leader was a " F "

type, and he thought that everyone should be that way. If I'd known about these

different personality types, and that all are valid, maybe I could have called

him on his BS rather than letting it get to me.

------------ --------- --------- ---

Finding fabulous fares is fun.

Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel

bargains.

[Guest guest]

I never did learn them but now that I know why I am different, I am trying to.

Re: links between mbti and AS

There's a lot more to being neurotypical than making decisions based on emotion.

Most of what sets us apart from NT's involves differences in sensory processing

and manner of social interaction. Social interactions don't come intuitively to

us, we must learn them consciously and painstakingly like learning the rules of

a game. -- Joni

Re:

Posted by: " joanne ford " joannefordrogers (DOT) com rochet24 Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:51

am (PST) would that NT be iNtuitiveThinking or Neurotypical?

NT iNtuitive Thinking make decisions mostly on their T

Neurotypical, however, can be at either end of the T/F just like any of us.

Joanne

------------ --------- --------- ---

TV dinner still cooling?

Check out " Tonight's Picks " on Yahoo! TV.

[Guest guest]

> I have never been suicidal in my entire life, but during that church

> experience, it was awful. It .has been really hard losing my entire

> community of friends, but I guess they really weren't my friends

> anyway

I would agree with them not being your friends anyway.

Been a lot of talk about church and cults lately...just to add

something from my perspective in regards to that:

I totally rejected church and all that goes with it at about age 8. I

saw it (and it's followers) as hypocritical and trying to make me

conform to something I could never be, nor did any of it seem logical

to me. My mother in particular was aghast at me for having

anti-religious thoughts, but there wasn't much she could do about it to

change my mind. Although she could be insulting about at first

( " heathen! " ), in time she accepted my stance, even as she keeps her

" faith " . She knows I'm just as bull-headed as she is, I guess. It's

funny, my other siblings could never have the same " religious freedom "

(or lack of) when it comes to her as I have gained.

So it's safe to say I'm not about to be a cult victim. Glad you got

out of it alive though

[Guest guest]

believe it or not - with my faith intact!

Joanne

Re: Re: links between mbti and AS

> I have never been suicidal in my entire life, but during that church

> experience, it was awful. It .has been really hard losing my entire

> community of friends, but I guess they really weren't my friends

> anyway

I would agree with them not being your friends anyway.

Been a lot of talk about church and cults lately...just to add

something from my perspective in regards to that:

I totally rejected church and all that goes with it at about age 8. I

saw it (and it's followers) as hypocritical and trying to make me

conform to something I could never be, nor did any of it seem logical

to me. My mother in particular was aghast at me for having

anti-religious thoughts, but there wasn't much she could do about it to

change my mind. Although she could be insulting about at first

( " heathen! " ) , in time she accepted my stance, even as she keeps her

" faith " . She knows I'm just as bull-headed as she is, I guess. It's

funny, my other siblings could never have the same " religious freedom "

(or lack of) when it comes to her as I have gained.

So it's safe to say I'm not about to be a cult victim. Glad you got

out of it alive though

[Guest guest]

-----Original Message-----

>

>

>I totally rejected church and all that goes with it at about age 8.

Me too. I was about 10. When the priest said one Sunday morning in his sermon

that women are second-class citizens, that was it for me.

D.

________________________________________

PeoplePC Online

A better way to Internet

http://www.peoplepc.com

[Guest guest]

> believe it or not - with my faith intact!

> Joanne

Which if it makes you happy, is all that matters.

Btw, I was raised Anglican.

a

>

> Re: Re: links between mbti and AS

>

>

>

> > I have never been suicidal in my entire life, but during that church

> > experience, it was awful. It .has been really hard losing my entire

> > community of friends, but I guess they really weren't my friends

> > anyway

>

> I would agree with them not being your friends anyway.

>

> Been a lot of talk about church and cults lately...just to add

> something from my perspective in regards to that:

>

> I totally rejected church and all that goes with it at about age 8. I

> saw it (and it's followers) as hypocritical and trying to make me

> conform to something I could never be, nor did any of it seem logical

> to me. My mother in particular was aghast at me for having

> anti-religious thoughts, but there wasn't much she could do about it

> to

> change my mind. Although she could be insulting about at first

> ( " heathen! " ) , in time she accepted my stance, even as she keeps her

> " faith " . She knows I'm just as bull-headed as she is, I guess. It's

> funny, my other siblings could never have the same " religious freedom "

> (or lack of) when it comes to her as I have gained.

>

> So it's safe to say I'm not about to be a cult victim. Glad you got

> out of it alive though

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm glad the church that I attend doesn't feel that way about women, in fact my

priest is a woman.

Joanne

Re: Re: links between mbti and AS

-----Original Message-----

>From: " P.C. MacNeil " <msp@.... ca>

>

>I totally rejected church and all that goes with it at about age 8.

Me too. I was about 10. When the priest said one Sunday morning in his sermon

that women are second-class citizens, that was it for me.

D.

____________ _________ _________ _________ _

PeoplePC Online

A better way to Internet

http://www.peoplepc .com

[Guest guest]

It sure doesn't always make me happy!...but it does give me a sense of peace in

the middle of whatever is going on.

Joanne

Re: Re: links between mbti and AS

>

>

>

> > I have never been suicidal in my entire life, but during that church

> > experience, it was awful. It .has been really hard losing my entire

> > community of friends, but I guess they really weren't my friends

> > anyway

>

> I would agree with them not being your friends anyway.

>

> Been a lot of talk about church and cults lately...just to add

> something from my perspective in regards to that:

>

> I totally rejected church and all that goes with it at about age 8. I

> saw it (and it's followers) as hypocritical and trying to make me

> conform to something I could never be, nor did any of it seem logical

> to me. My mother in particular was aghast at me for having

> anti-religious thoughts, but there wasn't much she could do about it

> to

> change my mind. Although she could be insulting about at first

> ( " heathen! " ) , in time she accepted my stance, even as she keeps her

> " faith " . She knows I'm just as bull-headed as she is, I guess. It's

> funny, my other siblings could never have the same " religious freedom "

> (or lack of) when it comes to her as I have gained.

>

> So it's safe to say I'm not about to be a cult victim. Glad you got

> out of it alive though

>

>

[Guest guest]

>>

>>

>> I totally rejected church and all that goes with it at about age 8.

>

> Me too. I was about 10. When the priest said one Sunday morning in his

> sermon that women are second-class citizens, that was it for me.

did he say it that directly, or in a more subtle indirect way?

-dave

--

(intp) 55.22682% - Extreme Geek 156 of 159:

I have accomplished a lot, but all by accident. --

[Guest guest]

>

>

> >>

> >>

> >> I totally rejected church and all that goes with it at about age 8.

> >

> > Me too. I was about 10. When the priest said one Sunday morning in

> his

> > sermon that women are second-class citizens, that was it for me.

>

> did he say it that directly, or in a more subtle indirect way?

>

> -dave

Really...would it matter?

a

[Guest guest]

at that age (and my age still 50) things can be interpreted based on what we are

feeling more than on what the person intended to get across by what he was

saying. All it would take is the patriarchal language in the liturgy and

scriptures for a young kid to get that message!

a lot of that has changed in many denominations, there are bibles that use

non-gender specific language, and even Himself has become Godself in some

places...

does this matter? perhaps not to you. perhaps to others? dunno.

Joanne

Re: Re: links between mbti and AS

>

>

> >> From: " P.C. MacNeil " <msp@.... ca>

> >>

> >> I totally rejected church and all that goes with it at about age 8.

> >

> > Me too. I was about 10. When the priest said one Sunday morning in

> his

> > sermon that women are second-class citizens, that was it for me.

>

> did he say it that directly, or in a more subtle indirect way?

>

> -dave

Really...would it matter?

a

[Guest guest]

>>

>>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> I totally rejected church and all that goes with it at about age 8.

>> >

>> > Me too. I was about 10. When the priest said one Sunday morning in

>> > his sermon that women are second-class citizens, that was it for

>> > me.

>>

>> did he say it that directly, or in a more subtle indirect way?

>>

>> -dave

>

> Really...would it matter?

>

> a

i'm just curious if he was direct.

if he was indirect, well, i different people will interpret the same

thing differently. i can imagine some people (radical feminists) getting

a " second-class citizen " feel from a sermon which talks about a wife's

and mother's duties.

-dave

--

(intp) 55.22682% - Extreme Geek 20 of 159:

computers let you take laziness to a whole new level. - mrak

[Guest guest]

>

> -----Original Message-----

>>

>>

>>I totally rejected church and all that goes with it at about age 8.

>

>

> Me too. I was about 10. When the priest said one Sunday morning in his sermon

that women are second-class citizens, that was it for me.

I visited a church once with a friend and the sermon was on how single

moms could not possibly raise healthy kids, and I never went back to

that church. My son is 21 and has been raised by a single mom and is

much much healthier than he would have been had he been raised by his

abusive father!

I'm searching for a church or some sort of spirituality that fits me.

Haven't found it yet.

--

the Dreamer

http://www.visi.com/~unique

[Guest guest]

He trusted his gut to do what was right but didn't let you trust

yourself to do what was right for you. I can't stand people like that.

Fortunately not all feeling types are like that, I know I'm not like

that and I know many feeling types who aren't that way. Also,

unfortunately I know other feeling types who are that way and they scare

me and I avoid them.

the Dreamer, who thinks that everyone should find their own pathway

> Knowing about this has helped me to understand my experience in a religious

cult, whose very charismatic leader was very much a " F " eeling type. He

harrassed me when I said things like " I think... " or " I thought... " said that

that meant that I was basing my life on " thinking " , which was inferior and

misleading, he said, to " feeling " , which he said was more " spiritual " and

" true " . He further said that I " needed to get in touch with my feelings " and in

the meantime I had to trust him to make certain kinds of decisions for me. He

bragged that he " always went with his gut " and so he was 'never wrong'. When he

drove me to a suicide attempt, they told me at the hospital that I had been in

an abusive relationship and and my recovery depended on having no more to do

with him or his cult. The members of the cult tried a few times to get back in

touch with me, and I told them this. Finally the leader himself contacted me

and told me to stop telling lies about him. By then I

> realised that he was a very sick individual, and I was free. (Last I heard,

his wife divorced him and got their children, and most of his followers have

left him as well.)

>

> This is an example of intolorance of neurodiversity. The cult leader was a

" F " type, and he thought that everyone should be that way. If I'd known about

these different personality types, and that all are valid, maybe I could have

called him on his BS rather than letting it get to me.

>

>

[Guest guest]

It was 25 Mar 2007, when the Dreamer commented:

>

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> >>

> >>

> >>I totally rejected church and all that goes with it at about age 8.

> >

> >

> > Me too. I was about 10. When the priest said one Sunday morning in his

> > sermon that women are second-class citizens, that was it for me.

>

> I visited a church once with a friend and the sermon was on how single moms

> could not possibly raise healthy kids, and I never went back to that

> church. My son is 21 and has been raised by a single mom and is much much

> healthier than he would have been had he been raised by his abusive father!

>

> I'm searching for a church or some sort of spirituality that fits me.

> Haven't found it yet. -- the Dreamer http://www.visi.com/~unique

Well, if you feel you need a church, you're welcome to borrow mine, the

Desideratan Church. Download a copy of the Desiderata, and do that stuff

as best you can. You're done, that's all there is. As for a Religion to

go along with the Church, you'll have to find your own.

Good luck with that.

--

Grizzly <grizzly at grizzly.podzone.org>

Podcast: <http://grizzly.libsyn.com>

A minor local celebrity's fifteen minutes of

fame