Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

[Guest guest]

Lou, it is really easy to get lost and difficult to stay on course... especially when you're physically and mentally disoriented. I always felt my most worthless and lost when I was drinking. I may not know you well, Lou, but I recognize myself in you. I can tell you unequivocally, I did not make substantial progress in life or in ACT until I decided to remain sober and work through the pain while sober. It's terribly hard to not reach for that glass (or that joint) to put out the fire of that pain. But it was the best thing I ever did for myself. I cannot sit here and say I KNOW for certain that that is what you should do - I cannot say that for you. I'm just sharing what worked for me- and it took me years to get to that point. After all, I was not a "problem drinker" - but I was a problem live-er when I was drinking, even infrequently.

I know ending your sessions with your therapist must be very scary indeed. Are you sure you are ready for that? Maybe you can still see him once in awhile? I trust that you and he know what is best for you, but I'm just asking anyway, just in case you need him awhile longer and are unwilling to admit it because you are being brave and want to "go it alone" with all the tools you now have under your belt. I think you have a fantastic grasp of the ACT processes, but still you flop like a fish out of water when under the influence, I observe. Maybe you need to do that right now, for whatever reason. We all go at our own pace, and we all flounder due to one thing or another - all of us have demons. I applaud you for your willingness to share both the "a-ha" moments and the "oh no" moments with us.

Hang in there, my friend. Get a good night's sleep and go to work tomorrow ready to start anew, as we all do each day, each moment.

Helena

From: "" <experiential2012@....au>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 5:02:48 AMSubject: It's 'easy' to get lost

Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more than most, (70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful in suicide when drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a lot. Fucked if I want to stay with this lot. I complain so much it makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and my breath...I still feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others would put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that....Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me before I have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no responsibility....I can die today o?kThere is no tomorrow dickhead! Don't be so stupid! Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me before but I have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good luck my commerads, I move with you too.Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the online journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill me...tere is no living on from here...except fear...kill me....right?LOu...

[Guest guest]

Time's up Lou.  Drinking won again and always will. Ready to admit that?Yes? Call AA now. Or go here:

They'll be kind to you there. They know what you're going through. You won't feel so alone.This can be the day your life really starts getting much much better. Best of everything,

Jim

 

Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more than most, (70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful in suicide when drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a lot. Fucked if I want to stay with this lot. I complain so much it makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and my breath...I still feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others would put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that....

Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me before I have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no responsibility....I can die today o?kThere is no tomorrow dickhead! Don't be so stupid!

Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me before but I have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good luck my commerads, I move with you too.

Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the online journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill me...tere is no living on from here...except fear...kill me....right?

LOu

....

[Guest guest]

I know you mean well, but to advise someone you barely know to go to AA does not feel right to me. Maybe it is, and I should let Lou speak for herself, of course. But AA was not right for me; there are other options. 's latest book would be a great place to start, whether someone is in addiction or not, admits it or not - just my two cents.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:47:26 AMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

Time's up Lou. Drinking won again and always will. Ready to admit that?Yes? Call AA now. Or go here:They'll be kind to you there. They know what you're going through. You won't feel so alone.This can be the day your life really starts getting much much better. Best of everything,Jim

Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more than most, (70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful in suicide when drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a lot. Fucked if I want to stay with this lot. I complain so much it makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and my breath...I still feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others would put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that....Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me before I have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no responsibility....I can die today o?kThere is no tomorrow dickhead! Don't be so stupid! Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me before but I have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good luck my commerads, I move with you too.Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the online journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill me...tere is no living on from here...except fear...kill me....right?LOu...

[Guest guest]

Hi Helena,I agree wholeheartedly with your second sentence. Take care,Jim I know you mean well, but to advise someone you barely know to go to AA does not feel right to me. Maybe it is, and I should let Lou speak for herself, of course. But AA was not right for me; there are other options. 's latest book would be a great place to start, whether someone is in addiction or not, admits it or not - just my two cents. Helena To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:47:26 AMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost Time's up Lou. Drinking won again and always will. Ready to admit that?Yes? Call AA now. Or go here:They'll be kind to you there. They know what you're going through. You won't feel so alone.This can be the day your life really starts getting much much better. Best of everything,Jim Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more than most, (70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful in suicide when drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a lot. Fucked if I want to stay with this lot. I complain so much it makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and my breath...I still feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others would put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that....Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me before I have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no responsibility....I can die today o?kThere is no tomorrow dickhead! Don't be so stupid! Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me before but I have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good luck my commerads, I move with you too.Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the online journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill me...tere is no living on from here...except fear...kill me....right?LOu... Jim Designer | Developerhttp://www.jryanportfolio.com

[Guest guest]

Lou, I love the way you express your dark and light times.  I was there last night, and blogged about it.....so I totally related to what you wrote.  The first part of change I think is owning up to your weakness, which you are doing so well.  And having loving and supportive people in your life is key.  Then there is the touch of a good coach/therapist, which is the journey I'm only just beginning.....

So I look eagerly to see how it goes for you.

 

You're right mate, Alcohol takes me further into death mode. Sometimes I think I just WANT the misery. Honestly I don't know. Like I said, you're right, I have this silly idea that I can't die so I take a lot of risks, alcohol is just one of them (considering the way I use it). Yes Jim...times up...for sure. I thank you for the links ok and for caring enough to put them up there.

 Still here, still learning, loving and living everyday. I wish the same for you. All the best, 

Lou 

To: ACT_for_the_Public

Sent: Monday, 13 February 2012 2:17 AM Subject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

 

Time's up Lou.  Drinking won again and always will. Ready to admit that?Yes? Call AA now.

Or go here:

They'll be kind to you there. They know what you're going through. You won't feel so alone.This can be the day your life really starts getting much much better. Best of everything,

Jim

 

Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more than most, (70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful in suicide when drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a lot. Fucked if I want to stay with this lot. I complain so much it makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and my breath...I still feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others would put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that....

Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me before I have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no responsibility....I can die today o?kThere is no tomorrow dickhead! Don't be so stupid!

Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me before but I have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good luck my commerads, I move with you too.

Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the online journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill me...tere is no living on from here...except fear...kill me....right?

LOu

....

[Guest guest]

Hi Jim,

You agree with this sentence, then: "Maybe it is, and I should let Lou speak for herself, of course."

It sounds like you think I should have kept my mouth shut - and you may be right - too late now. But expressing my opinons does not keep Lou from speaking for herself, which she always does. If I thought it would, I would remain silent. However, this IS a group list and people should feel free to jump in on any conversation. If you wanted the conversation to remain between you and Lou only, you could have emailed her privately. Perhaps my other sentences resonated with others here.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 7:34:50 PMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

Hi Helena,

I agree wholeheartedly with your second sentence.

Take care,

Jim

I know you mean well, but to advise someone you barely know to go to AA does not feel right to me. Maybe it is, and I should let Lou speak for herself, of course. But AA was not right for me; there are other options. 's latest book would be a great place to start, whether someone is in addiction or not, admits it or not - just my two cents.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:47:26 AMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

Time's up Lou. Drinking won again and always will. Ready to admit that?Yes? Call AA now. Or go here:They'll be kind to you there. They know what you're going through. You won't feel so alone.This can be the day your life really starts getting much much better. Best of everything,Jim

Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more than most, (70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful in suicide when drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a lot. Fucked if I want to stay with this lot. I complain so much it makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and my breath...I still feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others would put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that....Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me before I have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no responsibility....I can die today o?kThere is no tomorrow dickhead! Don't be so stupid! Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me before but I have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good luck my commerads, I move with you too.Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the online journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill me...tere is no living on from here...except fear...kill me....right?LOu...

Jim

Designer | Developer

http://www.jryanportfolio.com

[Guest guest]

Well I'll jump in here. I agree with Helena here and I agreed with her first

email to Jim.

I didn't like the tone of Jim's email, especially the " ready to admit that? "

part. It came across as condescending and superior. To me this list is about

support and advice - when asked for - and this just didn't seem appropriate.

My two cent's worth.

Kate

>

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> Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more than most,

(70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful in suicide when

drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a lot. Fucked if I want to stay

with this lot. I complain so much it makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and

my breath...I still feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others

would put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that....

>

> Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me before I

have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no responsibility....I can die

today o?kThere is no tomorrow dickhead! Don't be so stupid!

>

> Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me before but I

have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good luck my commerads, I move

with you too.

>

> Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the online

journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill me...tere is no

living on from here...except fear...kill me....right?

>

> LOu

>

> ...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> </blockquote>

>

>

>

>

>

> Jim

> Designer | Developer

>

> http://www.jryanportfolio.com

>

[Guest guest]

Funny, really getting full on just how many people do stupid stuff, including

harmful stuff to themselves and others when they use substances helps me

tremendously not use.

>

> Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more than most,

(70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful in suicide when

drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a lot. Fucked if I want to stay

with this lot. I complain so much it makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and

my breath...I still feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others

would put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that....

>

> Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me before I

have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no responsibility....I can die

today o?kThere is no tomorrow dickhead! Don't be so stupid!

>

> Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me before but I

have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good luck my commerads, I move

with you too.

>

> Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the online

journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill me...tere is no

living on from here...except fear...kill me....right?

>

> LOu

>

> ...

>

[Guest guest]

Lou reaches out here. More education is one of my favorite approaches, but perhaps sitting alone reading hasn't been enough. I agree that AA is not guaranteed, but my sene is that a personal coach - a sponsor - might be helpful.Lou?D

I know you mean well, but to advise someone you barely know to go to AA does not feel right to me. Maybe it is, and I should let Lou speak for herself, of course. But AA was not right for me; there are other options. 's latest book would be a great place to start, whether someone is in addiction or not, admits it or not - just my two cents.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:47:26 AMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

Time's up Lou. Drinking won again and always will. Ready to admit that?Yes? Call AA now. Or go here:They'll be kind to you there. They know what you're going through. You won't feel so alone.This can be the day your life really starts getting much much better. Best of everything,Jim

Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more than most, (70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful in suicide when drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a lot. Fucked if I want to stay with this lot. I complain so much it makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and my breath...I still feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others would put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that....Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me before I have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no responsibility....I can die today o?kThere is no tomorrow dickhead! Don't be so stupid! Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me before but I have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good luck my commerads, I move with you too.Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the online journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill me...tere is no living on from here...except fear...kill me....right?LOu...

[Guest guest]

Maybe you are just USED to the misery and your mind seeks safety, security, and comfort in familiar environs...?D

You're right mate, Alcohol takes me further into death mode. Sometimes I think I just WANT the misery. Honestly I don't know. Like I said, you're right, I have this silly idea that I can't die so I take a lot of risks, alcohol is just one of them (considering the way I use it). Yes Jim...times up...for sure. I thank you for the links ok and for caring enough to put them up there. Still here, still learning, loving and living everyday. I wish the same for you. All the best, Lou To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Monday, 13 February 2012 2:17 AM Subject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

Time's up Lou. Drinking won again and always will. Ready to admit that?Yes? Call AA now. Or go here:

They'll be kind to you there. They know what you're going through. You won't feel so alone.This can be the day your life really starts getting much much better. Best of everything,

Jim

Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more than most, (70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful in suicide when drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a lot. Fucked if I want to stay with this lot. I complain so much it makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and my breath...I still feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others would put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that....

Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me before I have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no responsibility....I can die today o?kThere is no tomorrow dickhead! Don't be so stupid!

Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me before but I have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good luck my commerads, I move with you too.

Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the online journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill me...tere is no living on from here...except fear...kill me....right?

LOu

....

[Guest guest]

I have noticed that many who have been there and walked away can have strong bondings with the methods they used, even to the point of feeling fused with and defensive about them. This makes sense when I think about it.One of my own strong feelings is reflected in your comments about public lists, Helena. I ran a very busy list for years and I always held that it wa like a sidewalk cafe where anyone could wander in and join any conversation. Such was the nature of the space.D

Hi Jim,

You agree with this sentence, then: "Maybe it is, and I should let Lou speak for herself, of course."

It sounds like you think I should have kept my mouth shut - and you may be right - too late now. But expressing my opinons does not keep Lou from speaking for herself, which she always does. If I thought it would, I would remain silent. However, this IS a group list and people should feel free to jump in on any conversation. If you wanted the conversation to remain between you and Lou only, you could have emailed her privately. Perhaps my other sentences resonated with others here.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 7:34:50 PMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

Hi Helena,

I agree wholeheartedly with your second sentence.

Take care,

Jim

I know you mean well, but to advise someone you barely know to go to AA does not feel right to me. Maybe it is, and I should let Lou speak for herself, of course. But AA was not right for me; there are other options. 's latest book would be a great place to start, whether someone is in addiction or not, admits it or not - just my two cents.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:47:26 AMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

Time's up Lou. Drinking won again and always will. Ready to admit that?Yes? Call AA now. Or go here:They'll be kind to you there. They know what you're going through. You won't feel so alone.This can be the day your life really starts getting much much better. Best of everything,Jim

Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more than most, (70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful in suicide when drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a lot. Fucked if I want to stay with this lot. I complain so much it makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and my breath...I still feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others would put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that....Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me before I have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no responsibility....I can die today o?kThere is no tomorrow dickhead! Don't be so stupid! Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me before but I have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good luck my commerads, I move with you too.Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the online journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill me...tere is no living on from here...except fear...kill me....right?LOu...

Jim

Designer | Developer

http://www.jryanportfolio.com

[Guest guest]

My method for quitting both cigarettes (1999) and alcohol (2011) was "cold turkey" along with a lot of reading and practice of mindfulness. I realize that doesn't work for everyone, especially those with deeply ingrained additions who probably can't use at all in order to get well; outside support is most likely needed.

In the interest of full disclosure, I do drink wine at times, like on Christmas Day at my friend's house. I just don't drink when I'm alone and never because I'm lonely or sad, which was my escape crutch for years - and it compounded my loneliness and sense of worthlessness, followed by shame the next day.

I live alone, and I choose to not bring booze into my home (along with potato chips!) unless I'm entertaining. When I choose to drink, it is in celebration with others. It has made a huge difference in the quality of my life and in my progress with ACT (living my values). I'm not suggesting that everyone must do as I do in order to live according to your values; some folks can probably drink alone with no ill effects. This is just what works for me.

Helena

From: "Darrell King" <DarrellGKinggmail>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:46:50 AMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

I have noticed that many who have been there and walked away can have strong bondings with the methods they used, even to the point of feeling fused with and defensive about them. This makes sense when I think about it.

One of my own strong feelings is reflected in your comments about public lists, Helena. I ran a very busy list for years and I always held that it wa like a sidewalk cafe where anyone could wander in and join any conversation. Such was the nature of the space.

D

Hi Jim,

You agree with this sentence, then: "Maybe it is, and I should let Lou speak for herself, of course."

It sounds like you think I should have kept my mouth shut - and you may be right - too late now. But expressing my opinons does not keep Lou from speaking for herself, which she always does. If I thought it would, I would remain silent. However, this IS a group list and people should feel free to jump in on any conversation. If you wanted the conversation to remain between you and Lou only, you could have emailed her privately. Perhaps my other sentences resonated with others here.

Helena

From: "JAMES P RYAN" <jim.ryangmail>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 7:34:50 PMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

Hi Helena,

I agree wholeheartedly with your second sentence.

Take care,

Jim

I know you mean well, but to advise someone you barely know to go to AA does not feel right to me. Maybe it is, and I should let Lou speak for herself, of course. But AA was not right for me; there are other options. 's latest book would be a great place to start, whether someone is in addiction or not, admits it or not - just my two cents.

Helena

From: "Jim " <jim.ryangmail>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:47:26 AMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

Time's up Lou. Drinking won again and always will. Ready to admit that?Yes? Call AA now. Or go here:They'll be kind to you there. They know what you're going through. You won't feel so alone.This can be the day your life really starts getting much much better. Best of everything,Jim

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 5:02 AM, <experiential2012@....au> wrote:

Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more than most, (70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful in suicide when drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a lot. Fucked if I want to stay with this lot. I complain so much it makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and my breath...I still feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others would put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that....Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me before I have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no responsibility....I can die today o?kThere is no tomorrow dickhead! Don't be so stupid! Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me before but I have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good luck my commerads, I move with you too.Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the online journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill me...tere is no living on from here...except fear...kill me....right?LOu...

Jim

Designer | Developer

http://www.jryanportfolio.com

[Guest guest]

I spent many far too many moments with on-line groups ranting about this sort of

thing. What a royal waste of time. It saddens me. I don't recommend it if you

cherish your moments.

> >

> > Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more than most,

(70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful in suicide when

drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a lot. Fucked if I want to stay

with this lot. I complain so much it makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and

my breath...I still feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others

would put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that....

> >

> > Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me before I

have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no responsibility....I can die

today o?kThere is no tomorrow dickhead! Don't be so stupid!

> >

> > Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me before but

I have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good luck my commerads, I move

with you too.

> >

> > Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the online

journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill me...tere is no

living on from here...except fear...kill me....right?

> >

> > LOu

> >

> > ...

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Jim

> > Designer | Developer

> >

> > http://www.jryanportfolio.com

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Darrell ,Agreed. I'm sure 's book is great, but  it's just a book and won't take your desperate phone calls at 3am.While it would really be great to be able to say " there are several really effective and free ACT-based recovery meetings in your town. Go there and they'll take care of you, " I don't know of any such network. Too bad there isn't one yet. 

It would be equally wonderful to say, " just practice mindfulness of your urges and you'll get through this fine, Most people who drink as you do stop or moderate without any outside help, " but there's no evidence to back up either of those statements. If outstanding mindfulness made you immune to alcoholism, the biographies of Alan Watts and Chogyam Trungpa would read very differently. 

And one last thing: if you see someone drowning, should you throw them a line? Leap in to try and save them? Or do you just wave back because it's more polite?Jim

 

Lou reaches out here.  More education is one of my favorite approaches, but perhaps sitting alone reading hasn't been enough. I agree that AA is not guaranteed, but my sene is that a personal coach - a sponsor - might be helpful.

Lou?D

 

I know you mean well, but to advise someone you barely know to go to AA does not feel right to me.  Maybe it is, and I should let Lou speak for herself, of course.  But AA was not right for me; there are other options.  's latest book would be a great place to start, whether someone is in addiction or not, admits it or not - just my two cents.

 

Helena

To: " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:47:26 AMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

 

Time's up Lou.  Drinking won again and always will. Ready to admit that?Yes? Call AA now. Or go here:

They'll be kind to you there. They know what you're going through. You won't feel so alone.This can be the day your life really starts getting much much better. Best of everything,

Jim

 

Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more than most, (70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful in suicide when drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a lot. Fucked if I want to stay with this lot. I complain so much it makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and my breath...I still feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others would put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that....

Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me before I have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no responsibility....I can die today o?kThere is no tomorrow dickhead! Don't be so stupid!

Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me before but I have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good luck my commerads, I move with you too.Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the online journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill me...tere is no living on from here...except fear...kill me....right?

LOu...

[Guest guest]

What's also true is it's simple enough (not easy) to be found. :-)

>

> Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more than most,

(70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful in suicide when

drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a lot. Fucked if I want to stay

with this lot. I complain so much it makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and

my breath...I still feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others

would put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that....

>

> Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me before I

have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no responsibility....I can die

today o?kThere is no tomorrow dickhead! Don't be so stupid!

>

> Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me before but I

have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good luck my commerads, I move

with you too.

>

> Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the online

journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill me...tere is no

living on from here...except fear...kill me....right?

>

> LOu

>

> ...

>

[Guest guest]

Jim, your post is addressed to Darrell, but it references my prior posts and not his. Just wanted to clear that up in case anyone is confused...

Neither I nor anyone else said that reading or mindfulness is sufficient for quitting an addiction. As for politely waving to a drowning person - you know none of us would do that; although we may have different kinds of life lines to throw, it is up to the drowning person to decide which one(s) to grab.

Helena

From: "Jim " <jim.ryangmail>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 6:06:14 PMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

Darrell , Agreed. I'm sure 's book is great, but it's just a book and won't take your desperate phone calls at 3am.

While it would really be great to be able to say "there are several really effective and free ACT-based recovery meetings in your town. Go there and they'll take care of you," I don't know of any such network. Too bad there isn't one yet.

It would be equally wonderful to say, "just practice mindfulness of your urges and you'll get through this fine, Most people who drink as you do stop or moderate without any outside help," but there's no evidence to back up either of those statements. If outstanding mindfulness made you immune to alcoholism, the biographies of Alan Watts and Chogyam Trungpa would read very differently.

And one last thing: if you see someone drowning, should you throw them a line? Leap in to try and save them?

Or do you just wave back because it's more polite?

Jim

On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Darrell King <DarrellGKinggmail> wrote:

Lou reaches out here. More education is one of my favorite approaches, but perhaps sitting alone reading hasn't been enough. I agree that AA is not guaranteed, but my sene is that a personal coach - a sponsor - might be helpful.

Lou?

D

I know you mean well, but to advise someone you barely know to go to AA does not feel right to me. Maybe it is, and I should let Lou speak for herself, of course. But AA was not right for me; there are other options. 's latest book would be a great place to start, whether someone is in addiction or not, admits it or not - just my two cents.

Helena

From: "Jim " <jim.ryangmail>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:47:26 AMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

Time's up Lou. Drinking won again and always will. Ready to admit that?Yes? Call AA now. Or go here:They'll be kind to you there. They know what you're going through. You won't feel so alone.This can be the day your life really starts getting much much better. Best of everything,Jim

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 5:02 AM, <experiential2012@....au> wrote:

Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more than most, (70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful in suicide when drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a lot. Fucked if I want to stay with this lot. I complain so much it makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and my breath...I still feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others would put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that....Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me before I have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no responsibility....I can die today o?kThere is no tomorrow dickhead! Don't be so stupid! Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me before but I have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good luck my commerads, I move with you too.Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the online journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill me...tere is no living on from here...except fear...kill me....right?LOu...

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Helena. I quit both as well, 1999 and 2002-ish: cold turkey and taper, respectively. I am quit comfortable without either now, but I also believe that each situation must be responded to as a unique one.D

My method for quitting both cigarettes (1999) and alcohol (2011) was "cold turkey" along with a lot of reading and practice of mindfulness. I realize that doesn't work for everyone, especially those with deeply ingrained additions who probably can't use at all in order to get well; outside support is most likely needed.

In the interest of full disclosure, I do drink wine at times, like on Christmas Day at my friend's house. I just don't drink when I'm alone and never because I'm lonely or sad, which was my escape crutch for years - and it compounded my loneliness and sense of worthlessness, followed by shame the next day.

I live alone, and I choose to not bring booze into my home (along with potato chips!) unless I'm entertaining. When I choose to drink, it is in celebration with others. It has made a huge difference in the quality of my life and in my progress with ACT (living my values). I'm not suggesting that everyone must do as I do in order to live according to your values; some folks can probably drink alone with no ill effects. This is just what works for me.

Helena

From: "Darrell King" <DarrellGKinggmail>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:46:50 AMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

I have noticed that many who have been there and walked away can have strong bondings with the methods they used, even to the point of feeling fused with and defensive about them. This makes sense when I think about it.

One of my own strong feelings is reflected in your comments about public lists, Helena. I ran a very busy list for years and I always held that it wa like a sidewalk cafe where anyone could wander in and join any conversation. Such was the nature of the space.

D

Hi Jim,

You agree with this sentence, then: "Maybe it is, and I should let Lou speak for herself, of course."

It sounds like you think I should have kept my mouth shut - and you may be right - too late now. But expressing my opinons does not keep Lou from speaking for herself, which she always does. If I thought it would, I would remain silent. However, this IS a group list and people should feel free to jump in on any conversation. If you wanted the conversation to remain between you and Lou only, you could have emailed her privately. Perhaps my other sentences resonated with others here.

Helena

From: "JAMES P RYAN" <jim.ryangmail>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 7:34:50 PMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

Hi Helena,

I agree wholeheartedly with your second sentence.

Take care,

Jim

I know you mean well, but to advise someone you barely know to go to AA does not feel right to me. Maybe it is, and I should let Lou speak for herself, of course. But AA was not right for me; there are other options. 's latest book would be a great place to start, whether someone is in addiction or not, admits it or not - just my two cents.

Helena

From: "Jim " <jim.ryangmail>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:47:26 AMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

Time's up Lou. Drinking won again and always will. Ready to admit that?Yes? Call AA now. Or go here:They'll be kind to you there. They know what you're going through. You won't feel so alone.This can be the day your life really starts getting much much better. Best of everything,Jim

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 5:02 AM, <experiential2012@....au> wrote:

Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more than most, (70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful in suicide when drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a lot. Fucked if I want to stay with this lot. I complain so much it makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and my breath...I still feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others would put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that....Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me before I have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no responsibility....I can die today o?kThere is no tomorrow dickhead! Don't be so stupid! Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me before but I have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good luck my commerads, I move with you too.Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the online journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill me...tere is no living on from here...except fear...kill me....right?LOu...

Jim

Designer | Developer

http://www.jryanportfolio.com

[Guest guest]

Yes Helena, I understand that. We all want to help. I just hope Lou grabs some sort of life line but if she chooses not to, I won't impose my views on her any more. I'd rather she feel safe here and get it or not get it in her own time. 

Jim

 

Jim, your post is addressed to Darrell, but it references my prior posts and not his.  Just wanted to clear that up in case anyone is confused...

 

Neither I nor anyone else said that reading or mindfulness is sufficient for quitting an addiction. As for politely waving to a drowning person - you know none of us would do that; although we may have different kinds of life lines to throw, it is up to the drowning person to decide which one(s) to grab.

 

Helena

From: " Jim " <jim.ryangmail>To: " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 6:06:14 PMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

 

Darrell , Agreed. I'm sure 's book is great, but  it's just a book and won't take your desperate phone calls at 3am.

While it would really be great to be able to say " there are several really effective and free ACT-based recovery meetings in your town. Go there and they'll take care of you, " I don't know of any such network. Too bad there isn't one yet. 

It would be equally wonderful to say, " just practice mindfulness of your urges and you'll get through this fine, Most people who drink as you do stop or moderate without any outside help, " but there's no evidence to back up either of those statements. If outstanding mindfulness made you immune to alcoholism, the biographies of Alan Watts and Chogyam Trungpa would read very differently. 

And one last thing: if you see someone drowning, should you throw them a line? Leap in to try and save them? 

Or do you just wave back because it's more polite?

Jim

On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Darrell King <DarrellGKinggmail> wrote:

 

Lou reaches out here.  More education is one of my favorite approaches, but perhaps sitting alone reading hasn't been enough. I agree that AA is not guaranteed, but my sene is that a personal coach - a sponsor - might be helpful.

Lou?

D

 

I know you mean well, but to advise someone you barely know to go to AA does not feel right to me.  Maybe it is, and I should let Lou speak for herself, of course.  But AA was not right for me; there are other options.  's latest book would be a great place to start, whether someone is in addiction or not, admits it or not - just my two cents.

 

Helena

From: " Jim " <jim.ryangmail>To: " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:47:26 AMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost 

Time's up Lou.  Drinking won again and always will. Ready to admit that?Yes? Call AA now. Or go here:

They'll be kind to you there. They know what you're going through. You won't feel so alone.This can be the day your life really starts getting much much better. Best of everything,

Jim

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 5:02 AM, <experiential2012@....au> wrote:

 

Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more than most, (70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful in suicide when drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a lot. Fucked if I want to stay with this lot. I complain so much it makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and my breath...I still feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others would put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that....

Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me before I have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no responsibility....I can die today o?kThere is no tomorrow dickhead! Don't be so stupid!

Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me before but I have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good luck my commerads, I move with you too.Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the online journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill me...tere is no living on from here...except fear...kill me....right?

LOu...

[Guest guest]

Like the subject says, it is easy to get lost. Whether from despair or from fusion. The mind offers up stories and we wander the plot lines, fascinated.D

Yes Helena, I understand that. We all want to help. I just hope Lou grabs some sort of life line but if she chooses not to, I won't impose my views on her any more. I'd rather she feel safe here and get it or not get it in her own time.

Jim

Jim, your post is addressed to Darrell, but it references my prior posts and not his. Just wanted to clear that up in case anyone is confused...

Neither I nor anyone else said that reading or mindfulness is sufficient for quitting an addiction. As for politely waving to a drowning person - you know none of us would do that; although we may have different kinds of life lines to throw, it is up to the drowning person to decide which one(s) to grab.

Helena

From: "Jim " <jim.ryangmail>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 6:06:14 PMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

Darrell , Agreed. I'm sure 's book is great, but it's just a book and won't take your desperate phone calls at 3am.

While it would really be great to be able to say "there are several really effective and free ACT-based recovery meetings in your town. Go there and they'll take care of you," I don't know of any such network. Too bad there isn't one yet.

It would be equally wonderful to say, "just practice mindfulness of your urges and you'll get through this fine, Most people who drink as you do stop or moderate without any outside help," but there's no evidence to back up either of those statements. If outstanding mindfulness made you immune to alcoholism, the biographies of Alan Watts and Chogyam Trungpa would read very differently.

And one last thing: if you see someone drowning, should you throw them a line? Leap in to try and save them?

Or do you just wave back because it's more polite?

Jim

On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Darrell King <DarrellGKinggmail> wrote:

Lou reaches out here. More education is one of my favorite approaches, but perhaps sitting alone reading hasn't been enough. I agree that AA is not guaranteed, but my sene is that a personal coach - a sponsor - might be helpful.

Lou?

D

I know you mean well, but to advise someone you barely know to go to AA does not feel right to me. Maybe it is, and I should let Lou speak for herself, of course. But AA was not right for me; there are other options. 's latest book would be a great place to start, whether someone is in addiction or not, admits it or not - just my two cents.

Helena

From: "Jim " <jim.ryangmail>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:47:26 AMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

Time's up Lou. Drinking won again and always will. Ready to admit that?Yes? Call AA now. Or go here:

They'll be kind to you there. They know what you're going through. You won't feel so alone.This can be the day your life really starts getting much much better. Best of everything,

Jim

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 5:02 AM, <experiential2012@....au> wrote:

Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more than most, (70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful in suicide when drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a lot. Fucked if I want to stay with this lot. I complain so much it makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and my breath...I still feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others would put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that....

Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me before I have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no responsibility....I can die today o?kThere is no tomorrow dickhead! Don't be so stupid!

Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me before but I have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good luck my commerads, I move with you too.Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the online journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill me...tere is no living on from here...except fear...kill me....right?

LOu...

[Guest guest]

The luster returns in time, Lou. But lackluster is worth exploring, too. I remember the early days and there was a long period of anhedonia which was likely secondary to both neurochemical imbalances and the rather abrupt lifestyle change from partier to non.I do remember that I kept busy. For me, that meant reading, working out, job-hunting, and the early versions of computer games. The idea was that even though I would have thoughts, I would not spend time dwelling on them. An instinctive version of defusion, maybe....D

I've taken heed to the advice of all the good people here and have been practicing abstinence for the last three days (today is the third). I know this is the way forward but it is so bloody boring! Time is soooooo slow. Even taking action is full of lacklustre. I'm curious as to how long I'll last. I apreciate the advice (and being privy to the conversations you have with one another), I tend to kid/fool myself in moments and you guys serve as a reality slap sometimes.

To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Thursday, 16 February 2012 1:16 AM Subject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

Like the subject says, it is easy to get lost. Whether from despair or from fusion. The mind offers up stories and we wander the plot lines, fascinated.D

Yes Helena, I understand that. We all want to help. I just hope Lou grabs some sort of life line but if she chooses not to, I won't impose my views on her any more. I'd rather she feel safe here and get it or not get it in her own time.

Jim

Jim, your post is addressed to Darrell, but it references my prior posts and not his. Just wanted to clear that up in case anyone is confused...

Neither I nor anyone else said that reading or mindfulness is sufficient for quitting an addiction. As for politely waving to a drowning person - you know none of us would do that; although we may have different kinds of life lines to throw, it is up to the drowning person to decide which one(s) to grab.

Helena

From: "Jim " <jim.ryangmail>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 6:06:14 PMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

Darrell , Agreed. I'm sure 's book is great, but it's just a book and won't take your desperate phone calls at 3am.

While it would really be great to be able to say "there are several really effective and free ACT-based recovery meetings in your town. Go there and they'll take care of you," I don't know of any such network. Too bad there isn't one yet.

It would be equally wonderful to say, "just practice mindfulness of your urges and you'll get through this fine, Most people who drink as you do stop or moderate without any outside help," but there's no evidence to back up either of those statements. If outstanding mindfulness made you immune to alcoholism, the biographies of Alan Watts and Chogyam Trungpa would read very differently.

And one last thing: if you see someone drowning, should you throw them a line? Leap in to try and save them?

Or do you just wave back because it's more polite?

Jim

On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Darrell King <DarrellGKinggmail> wrote:

Lou reaches out here. More education is one of my favorite approaches, but perhaps sitting alone reading hasn't been enough. I agree that AA is not guaranteed, but my sene is that a personal coach - a sponsor - might be helpful.

Lou?

D

I know you mean well, but to advise someone you barely know to go to AA does not feel right to me. Maybe it is, and I should let Lou speak for herself, of course. But AA was not right for me; there are other options. 's latest book would be a great place to start, whether someone is in addiction or not, admits it or not - just my two cents.

Helena

From: "Jim " <jim.ryangmail>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:47:26 AMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

Time's up Lou. Drinking won again and always will. Ready to admit that?Yes? Call AA now. Or go here:

They'll be kind to you there. They know what you're going through. You won't feel so alone.This can be the day your life really starts getting much much better. Best of everything,

Jim

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 5:02 AM, <experiential2012@....au> wrote:

Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more than most, (70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful in suicide when drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a lot. Fucked if I want to stay with this lot. I complain so much it makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and my breath...I still feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others would put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that....

Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me before I have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no responsibility....I can die today o?kThere is no tomorrow dickhead! Don't be so stupid!

Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me before but I have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good luck my commerads, I move with you too.Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the online journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill me...tere is no living on from here...except fear...kill me....right?

LOu...

[Guest guest]

Oh, so you're giving up two huge things there. You are my new hero. Change is

difficult for sure. That includes new, different, unfamiliar. Most of my pain is

really worse when it's about pain + no thanks to that unfamiliar uncomfortable

stuff. Most of my life it's been a huge no and yet dancing around the no,

pretending I'm not really saying no. Avoiding looking resistant! Now I get to

hear the NO and stand there and hear the YES and stand there, and it's something

fierce, something awesome.

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>> 

> >>>>>>Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more than

most, (70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful in suicide when

drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a lot. Fucked if I want to stay

with this lot. I complain so much it makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and

my breath...I still feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others

would put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that....

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me before

I have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no responsibility....I can

die today o?kThere is no tomorrow dickhead! Don't be so stupid!

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me before

but I have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good luck my commerads, I

move with you too.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the online

journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill me...tere is no

living on from here...except fear...kill me....right?

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>LOu

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>...

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>

> >>

> >

> >  

>

[Guest guest]

Good on ya for quitting, Lou.I remember that dullness. Like a boarded-up amusement park on cold rainy day in off-season. Often when I was trying it solo, that dullness and the lonely, jumping out of my skin, angry at everything feelings would drive me back to a drink after a period of days, weeks or sometimes months. I was one of those who just didn't manage that style of abstinence very well. Later when I quit for real (about 15 years ago) I found that the yuck feelings were helped by calling my sponsor and complaining at great length. As for the dullness, chocolate and movies helped a lot. In the years 1996-97, I became what can only be described as a "movie slut." All those dumb, formulaic Hollywood pictures with lots of explosions in them--the ones I'd turned my nose up at before--I watched them all. I found to my surprise that my brain hadn't been sharpened by the newfound abstinence but dulled to the point where intellectual me became Hollywood's ideal Lowest Common Denominator audience member. Happens to a lot of people, I hear. Best,Jim Morning Darrell, You know I really don't miss the alcohol but abstinence from smoking pot is like giving up the company I've had since my teens (my longest loving relationship). I spent most of January alcohol free but I continued to smoke my weed (by the bucket load). I agree that keeping busy is key to managing a way through those cravings/urges. Anhedonia...sounds like a made up word or a Greek goddess, not a description of an inability to experience pleasure. I like new words, I even make up my own on occasion, like 'ibrate' means to ripple, like in a pond or in waves. We'll see where all this goes, I will explore curiously the anhedonia. Time for me to get out then I guess. It's all about the journey right. All the best to you, Lou To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Thursday, 16 February 2012 9:47 AM Subject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost The luster returns in time, Lou. But lackluster is worth exploring, too. I remember the early days and there was a long period of anhedonia which was likely secondary to both neurochemical imbalances and the rather abrupt lifestyle change from partier to non.I do remember that I kept busy. For me, that meant reading, working out, job-hunting, and the early versions of computer games. The idea was that even though I would have thoughts, I would not spend time dwelling on them. An instinctive version of defusion, maybe....D I've taken heed to the advice of all the good people here and have been practicing abstinence for the last three days (today is the third). I know this is the way forward but it is so bloody boring! Time is soooooo slow. Even taking action is full of lacklustre. I'm curious as to how long I'll last. I apreciate the advice (and being privy to the conversations you have with one another), I tend to kid/fool myself in moments and you guys serve as a reality slap sometimes. To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Thursday, 16 February 2012 1:16 AM Subject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost Like the subject says, it is easy to get lost. Whether from despair or from fusion. The mind offers up stories and we wander the plot lines, fascinated.D Yes Helena, I understand that. We all want to help. I just hope Lou grabs some sort of life line but if she chooses not to, I won't impose my views on her any more. I'd rather she feel safe here and get it or not get it in her own time. Jim Jim, your post is addressed to Darrell, but it references my prior posts and not his. Just wanted to clear that up in case anyone is confused... Neither I nor anyone else said that reading or mindfulness is sufficient for quitting an addiction. As for politely waving to a drowning person - you know none of us would do that; although we may have different kinds of life lines to throw, it is up to the drowning person to decide which one(s) to grab. Helena From: "Jim " <jim.ryangmail>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 6:06:14 PMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost Darrell , Agreed. I'm sure 's book is great, but it's just a book and won't take your desperate phone calls at 3am. While it would really be great to be able to say "there are several really effective and free ACT-based recovery meetings in your town. Go there and they'll take care of you," I don't know of any such network. Too bad there isn't one yet. It would be equally wonderful to say, "just practice mindfulness of your urges and you'll get through this fine, Most people who drink as you do stop or moderate without any outside help," but there's no evidence to back up either of those statements. If outstanding mindfulness made you immune to alcoholism, the biographies of Alan Watts and Chogyam Trungpa would read very differently. And one last thing: if you see someone drowning, should you throw them a line? Leap in to try and save them? Or do you just wave back because it's more polite? Jim On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Darrell King <DarrellGKinggmail> wrote: Lou reaches out here. More education is one of my favorite approaches, but perhaps sitting alone reading hasn't been enough. I agree that AA is not guaranteed, but my sene is that a personal coach - a sponsor - might be helpful. Lou? D I know you mean well, but to advise someone you barely know to go to AA does not feel right to me. Maybe it is, and I should let Lou speak for herself, of course. But AA was not right for me; there are other options. 's latest book would be a great place to start, whether someone is in addiction or not, admits it or not - just my two cents. Helena From: "Jim " <jim.ryangmail>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:47:26 AMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost Time's up Lou. Drinking won again and always will. Ready to admit that?Yes? Call AA now. Or go here: They'll be kind to you there. They know what you're going through. You won't feel so alone.This can be the day your life really starts getting much much better. Best of everything, Jim On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 5:02 AM, <experiential2012@....au> wrote: Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more than most, (70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful in suicide when drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a lot. Fucked if I want to stay with this lot. I complain so much it makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and my breath...I still feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others would put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that.... Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me before I have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no responsibility....I can die today o?kThere is no tomorrow dickhead! Don't be so stupid! Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me before but I have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good luck my commerads, I move with you too.Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the online journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill me...tere is no living on from here...except fear...kill me....right? LOu...

[Guest guest]

Interesting, the days fly by and I am trying hard to slow things down. I have

never felt so " sped up " , physically and mentally, inwardly and outwardly, having

removed the numbing, sedating toxin flow into my system. Or maybe it's that I'm

noticing more, aware of everything more. Simple sugar makes this worse, but

small dose of very dark chocolate and other goodies now and again are amazingly

good. I discovered apple-cinnamon herbal tea (celestial seasonings) and I've

never endorsed a product here, but hey--buy a cart load if you can get your

hands on the stuff. This alone qualified for " worth the meeting " where I

discovered the same. (Although I find meetings surprisingly amazing gifts--as in

very surprising). Seriously though, there is a whole world out there that I had

been hiding from. Well,no..pretending to hide from and doing a lousy job. And

one thing leads to another in good ways.

> >>>

> >>> Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more

> >>> than most, (70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful

> >>> in suicide when drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a

> >>> lot. Fucked if I want to stay with this lot. I complain so much it

> >>> makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and my breath...I still

> >>> feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others would

> >>> put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that....

> >>>

> >>> Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me

> >>> before I have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no

> >>> responsibility....I can die today o?kThere is no tomorrow

> >>> dickhead! Don't be so stupid!

> >>>

> >>> Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me

> >>> before but I have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good

> >>> luck my commerads, I move with you too.

> >>>

> >>> Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the

> >>> online journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill

> >>> me...tere is no living on from here...except fear...kill

> >>> me....right?

> >>>

> >>> LOu

> >>>

> >>> ...

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I enjoy reading about your journey. It's very brave of you (or is courageous the correct word?) to share it with us. I'm sure you have in you whatever it takes to free yourself from addictions and find meaning in your life. Good on you : ) Sent from my iPhone

Morning Darrell, You know I really don't miss the alcohol but abstinence from smoking pot is like giving up the company I've had since my teens (my longest loving relationship). I spent most of January alcohol free but I continued to smoke my weed (by the bucket load). I agree that keeping busy is key to managing a way through those cravings/urges. Anhedonia...sounds like a made up word or a Greek goddess, not a description of an inability to experience pleasure. I like new words, I even make up my own on occasion, like 'ibrate' means to ripple, like in a pond or in waves. We'll see where all this goes, I will explore curiously the anhedonia. Time for me to get out then I guess. It's all about the journey right. All the best to you, Lou To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Thursday, 16 February 2012 9:47 AM Subject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

The luster returns in time, Lou. But lackluster is worth exploring, too. I remember the early days and there was a long period of anhedonia which was likely secondary to both neurochemical imbalances and the rather abrupt lifestyle change from partier to non.I do remember that I kept busy. For me, that meant reading, working out, job-hunting, and the early versions of computer games. The idea was that even though I would have thoughts, I would not spend time dwelling on them. An instinctive version of defusion, maybe....D

I've taken heed to the advice of all the good people here and have been practicing abstinence for the last three days (today is the third). I know this is the way forward but it is so bloody boring! Time is soooooo slow. Even taking action is full of lacklustre. I'm curious as to how long I'll last. I apreciate the advice (and being privy to the conversations you have with one another), I tend to kid/fool myself in moments and you guys serve as a reality slap sometimes.

To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Thursday, 16 February 2012 1:16 AM Subject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

Like the subject says, it is easy to get lost. Whether from despair or from fusion. The mind offers up stories and we wander the plot lines, fascinated.D

Yes Helena, I understand that. We all want to help. I just hope Lou grabs some sort of life line but if she chooses not to, I won't impose my views on her any more. I'd rather she feel safe here and get it or not get it in her own time.

Jim

Jim, your post is addressed to Darrell, but it references my prior posts and not his. Just wanted to clear that up in case anyone is confused...

Neither I nor anyone else said that reading or mindfulness is sufficient for quitting an addiction. As for politely waving to a drowning person - you know none of us would do that; although we may have different kinds of life lines to throw, it is up to the drowning person to decide which one(s) to grab.

Helena

From: "Jim " <jim.ryangmail>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 6:06:14 PMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

Darrell , Agreed. I'm sure 's book is great, but it's just a book and won't take your desperate phone calls at 3am.

While it would really be great to be able to say "there are several really effective and free ACT-based recovery meetings in your town. Go there and they'll take care of you," I don't know of any such network. Too bad there isn't one yet.

It would be equally wonderful to say, "just practice mindfulness of your urges and you'll get through this fine, Most people who drink as you do stop or moderate without any outside help," but there's no evidence to back up either of those statements. If outstanding mindfulness made you immune to alcoholism, the biographies of Alan Watts and Chogyam Trungpa would read very differently.

And one last thing: if you see someone drowning, should you throw them a line? Leap in to try and save them?

Or do you just wave back because it's more polite?

Jim

On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Darrell King <DarrellGKinggmail> wrote:

Lou reaches out here. More education is one of my favorite approaches, but perhaps sitting alone reading hasn't been enough. I agree that AA is not guaranteed, but my sene is that a personal coach - a sponsor - might be helpful.

Lou?

D

I know you mean well, but to advise someone you barely know to go to AA does not feel right to me. Maybe it is, and I should let Lou speak for herself, of course. But AA was not right for me; there are other options. 's latest book would be a great place to start, whether someone is in addiction or not, admits it or not - just my two cents.

Helena

From: "Jim " <jim.ryangmail>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:47:26 AMSubject: Re: It's 'easy' to get lost

Time's up Lou. Drinking won again and always will. Ready to admit that?Yes? Call AA now. Or go here:

They'll be kind to you there. They know what you're going through. You won't feel so alone.This can be the day your life really starts getting much much better. Best of everything,

Jim

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 5:02 AM, <experiential2012@....au> wrote:

Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more than most, (70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful in suicide when drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a lot. Fucked if I want to stay with this lot. I complain so much it makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and my breath...I still feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others would put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that....

Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me before I have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no responsibility....I can die today o?kThere is no tomorrow dickhead! Don't be so stupid!

Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me before but I have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good luck my commerads, I move with you too.Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the online journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill me...tere is no living on from here...except fear...kill me....right?

LOu...

[Guest guest]

,Meetings are amazing gifts, it's true. Where else are people so flat-out honest and funny? Where else can you reveal your worst f--kups and have people laugh and nod their heads in identification? And I always like the coffee, even when I have to bring it myself. Jim Interesting, the days fly by and I am trying hard to slow things down. I have never felt so "sped up", physically and mentally, inwardly and outwardly, having removed the numbing, sedating toxin flow into my system. Or maybe it's that I'm noticing more, aware of everything more. Simple sugar makes this worse, but small dose of very dark chocolate and other goodies now and again are amazingly good. I discovered apple-cinnamon herbal tea (celestial seasonings) and I've never endorsed a product here, but hey--buy a cart load if you can get your hands on the stuff. This alone qualified for "worth the meeting" where I discovered the same. (Although I find meetings surprisingly amazing gifts--as in very surprising). Seriously though, there is a whole world out there that I had been hiding from. Well,no..pretending to hide from and doing a lousy job. And one thing leads to another in good ways. > >>> > >>> Yeh ok, ok, its all judgement and hypocrisy. Now I know that more > >>> than most, (70 to 80%, they are really big numbers) are successful > >>> in suicide when drinking, that info. made me want to be drunk a > >>> lot. Fucked if I want to stay with this lot. I complain so much it > >>> makes me an ingrate...I have my child, and my breath...I still > >>> feel unworthy today...I have...I am nothing...or as others would > >>> put it, no-thing. I am no-thing. Yes I know that.... > >>> > >>> Drunk Lou (I'd rather be lovely......) Right now my mind kills me > >>> before I have to go to work tomorrow so it is ok, there is no > >>> responsibility....I can die today o?kThere is no tomorrow > >>> dickhead! Don't be so stupid! > >>> > >>> Louise (I want to ask, do you know me?, like you've met me > >>> before but I have been told. I met you all before anyway.) Good > >>> luck my commerads, I move with you too. > >>> > >>> Lou? Louise? ? From all of us...as one...I gasp...at the > >>> online journey...no-thing...NO-THING, next ok...I die or they kill > >>> me...tere is no living on from here...except fear...kill > >>> me....right? > >>> > >>> LOu > >>> > >>> ... > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >