Re: Different Strokes for Different Folks

[Guest guest]

Teri wrote:

<< Not COUNTING carbs doesn't necessarily mean that people consume too many

carbs. >>

I find our modern diet awash in carbohydrates. I must focus on

avoiding/minimizing carb intake daily or I take in too many.

<< You recently recounted that you and I had discovered that we're probably

very close in carb consumption, yet I have NEVER counted carbs. >>

I think this is an e-mail you have forgotten about. It went something like

this: " I have never gotten around to actually counting carbs, but today I

did, and the total for the day was certainly less than 100 grams. " You also

described your food intake for that day, and it sounded much like my diet.

<< Perhaps just more awareness of the folks who don't want to count carbs,

but are successful in their own method of management. >>

I'm not familiar with a successful approach to type 2 that doesn't include

an awareness of the impact of carbohydrates.

Susie

[Guest guest]

No, Susie, it's not wrong, but dang it, we don't all have to do it the same way.

I give up. :-(

Re: Different Strokes for Different Folks

Teri wrote:

<< Other people have chosen methods that work for them. Not to pick on

anyone, but Dave. O, for example. >>

Dave O. wrote:

<< my regimen is managed presently by medication, and not much exercise ...

over my lifetime working weight ... >>

Dave will do what he darn well pleases. He makes that clear. But is it wrong

for others, with a different mindset, to suggest things could be even better

with fewer carbs in the diet?

Susie (whose triglycerides dropped from 650 to 170 w/o meds after lowering

carb intake)

[Guest guest]

Teri wrote:

<< Other people have chosen methods that work for them. Not to pick on

anyone, but Dave. O, for example. >>

Dave O. wrote:

<< my regimen is managed presently by medication, and not much exercise ...

1/2 banana and 1/2 cup

oatmeal ... 1/2 can veg soup ... wheat bread ... carrots, potato, butternut

squash and onions, and two slices of bread with butter ... small empire and

a small delicious apple ... no-sugar hot chocolate ... 850mg Glucophage

breakfast, 500mg lunch, and 850mg dinner. I also take 14-15u of NPH at

bedtime ... I've just started the flaxseed oil and fish oil to try to get

my lipidsin order. My control had slipped in my last HbA1c to 6.8, up from

6.1. I had been having steadily increasing morning readings ... I am 15 lbs

over my lifetime working weight ... >>

Dave will do what he darn well pleases. He makes that clear. But is it wrong

for others, with a different mindset, to suggest things could be even better

with fewer carbs in the diet?

Susie (whose triglycerides dropped from 650 to 170 w/o meds after lowering

carb intake)

[Guest guest]

drmarion12@... wrote:

>

> re: Different Strokes

>

> Why would people write on the list if they don't want suggestions? How can

someone give a suggestion that doesn't fit with their own viewpoint.

>

> I don't understand your point. If you are referring to me, then be direct.

All comments are offers of help, not criticisms or attempts to convince.

>

> Re Ron, I will continue to give him credit where he is due credit. I will not

act as if I have discovered things that he has engineered. So I don't get your

point here either. The closest to flaming was people saying that they didn't

want to hear about " Ron " . Well, who shall I say helped me when someone helped

me?

> Does he really need to be " he whose name cannot be mentioned. "

> Very puzzled re your message. Very diplomatic, but don't understand what you

mean precisely. Whoever is writing you private E-mails is already by-passing

the group and doing what we call " splitting " . How about asking them to share

their concerns in public, on-line.

> I received a private E-mail from one of list members telling me that " my

emotions were clouding my thinking " . Well, da! That's a surprise. I simply

asked her not to write me privately anymore and to share her issues on the group

site.

>

> This sounds too similar to the nonsense that was going on with the L-C

diabetes list.

>

> Very scary.

>

> Please don't get triangulated (put in the middle).

I thought Teri's message was right on track, and I'm sure that she had

no one person singled out, including you. What she said was that this is

not a low carb list. It's fine for someone to say what works for

themselves, but I've seen many times where someone would disclose what

they had eaten, and the resident LC'rs start with the remarks, in effect

almost chastising the person who dared to eat what they did.

As for " suggestions " , I think it would be better offered as what works

for me. I think we need to avoid directly suggesting something as that

might infer medical advice.

As for Ron Sebol (I don't know him), I've seen many posts fowarded by

Susie and others that have been interesting, and it appears he has put

much time into this disease, but I don't see them as all-encompassing,

for everyone, and I don't worship him. His inability to join our list

due to his *privacy concerns*, to me is actually laughable.

At any rate, we've been through this LC thing before, ad-nauseum. Ever

since started the list in fact, and I don't see it going away

anytime soon. I have no problems listening to what works for others.

Just don't try to force anything on me. My numbers are right where I

want them, thanks..

Teri does a fine job here, and doesn't need any attacks for doing her

job.

--

Dave - 9:12:17 AM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, NPH

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[Guest guest]

Hey!! Good to hear from you Tootie! Hope all is well down there in the

big state.

Naomi s wrote:

>

> Different Strokes for Different Folks

>

> Kindness, support, sharing, compassion. That's why we're here. Let's all

> please be considerate of each other.

>

> Thanks,

> Teri

>

> *clap! clap! clap!* That's my way of thinking too Teri. You put it very

> well.

>

> Love you,

> Tootie

>

--

Dave - 9:27:17 AM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, NPH

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[Guest guest]

drmarion12@... wrote:

>

> Well, I am reluctant to share any of my experiences with low carb at this

> point. So someone will have to clear up this situation...I am puzzled... yes

> it is an internet list but people's emotions get heavily involved.

>

> So how do we know when we should give an opinion or not??

Well, I think everything you've written about your struggle with your

care for Gabe has been very interesting. He has a very tough struggle,

and I'm sure you'll be the first to agree that what works for him won't

necessarily work for others. Taking care of him is a full-time job, and

one that you've put your heart into, that's evident.

I think you still feel the finger is being pointed at you, and I'm sure

it's not. It was probably a cuumulative thing and needed addressing.

Talk about how your lc'ing works for Gabe, and the same for others as to

how it works for them. Just don't try to tell me that I'm going to crash

and burn if I choose not to LC. That's all she's trying to get accross.

You must have a very special kid there to have him allow you to poke him

as much as you do. I also noted in a post yesterday that you mentioned

that he had injected in his stomach, which was something that you were

trying to accomplish but you never said that it had occurred. Kudos..

Don't get bent.

--

Dave - 9:32:17 AM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, NPH

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[Guest guest]

Another list? Heaven save me! No, thank you. :-))

Re: Different Strokes for Different Folks

In a message dated 01-02-09 09:34:59 EST, you write:

<< The people on this list are the best and most caring I've encountered. I

just can't believe that we can't make this work. >>

Don't panic, Teri, I don't want to lose anyone to another list either --

join other lists if you want but don't leave us here! We're Family! I need

you all. Group hugs, Vicki.

[Guest guest]

" Susie M. " wrote:

>

> Teri wrote:

>

> << Other people have chosen methods that work for them. Not to pick on

> anyone, but Dave. O, for example. >>

>

> Dave O. wrote:

>

> << my regimen is managed presently by medication, and not much exercise ...

> 1/2 banana and 1/2 cup

> oatmeal ... 1/2 can veg soup ... wheat bread ... carrots, potato, butternut

> squash and onions, and two slices of bread with butter ... small empire and

> a small delicious apple ... no-sugar hot chocolate ... 850mg Glucophage

> breakfast, 500mg lunch, and 850mg dinner. I also take 14-15u of NPH at

> bedtime ... I've just started the flaxseed oil and fish oil to try to get

> my lipidsin order. My control had slipped in my last HbA1c to 6.8, up from

> 6.1. I had been having steadily increasing morning readings ... I am 15 lbs

> over my lifetime working weight ... >>

>

> Dave will do what he darn well pleases. He makes that clear. But is it wrong

> for others, with a different mindset, to suggest things could be even better

> with fewer carbs in the diet?

>

> Susie (whose triglycerides dropped from 650 to 170 w/o meds after lowering

> carb intake)

>

Well, as you can see, I " went naked " with about 10 of my meter readings

and daily meals. Aside from your tris (which actually happened when you

first went at this btw), how does your regimen stack up against mine?

Curious minds, etc.. Let honesty prevail.

--

Dave - 10:32:18 AM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, NPH

-

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[Guest guest]

Vicki. It's a joke. Dave admits that he is guilty and if he hadn't have stole

his wife's chocolate we would not be having this list problem.

Don't point the finger, poke it.

n

[Guest guest]

Thanks for admitting it Dave.

n

[Guest guest]

whimsy2@... wrote:

>

> I do think the reason some of us are so vocal about lowcarbing is that it's

> not " mainstream " and many docs and diabetic educators don't let newbies know

> about it for various reasons. So many of us see this list as a forum to get

> the word out. Vicki

Vicki,

There are also many Endos who don't fully grasp LC diets. Here's a post

from a very prominent Amarillo

Endo, although he doesn't give his position on LC.

He does give an overview of how " most mainstream docs " feel.

http://www.amarillomed.com/biggs1.htm (personal info)

This is also an interesting website:

http://www.amarillomed.com/index.htm with info for diabetics.

Post follows:

Brew,

Actually insulin is a very short lived hormone. It's half life is about

9

minutes.

Most mainstream docs in the diabetes field feel that low carb diets are

a

fad. Yes, you get lower sugars with them, but the long term results with

weight loss are disappointing. The cardiovascular safety of the diet is

questionable.

Cheers,

C Biggs MD

" '' " wrote in message news:3a7fa9e3@....

> C Biggs MD (no_spam_to_reddy_biggs@...),

> article nntp:/ , wrote seemingly

> in favour of Pritikin, despite his unseemly demise:

>

> I get the distinct impression that many readers here are going for

> low-carb or Bernstein.

>

> I ran into the bias against carbs and Pritikin's counter-intuitive

> diet recommendations in my thread on Grape-Juice. The complaint implied

> that consuming carbohydrates consumes insulin. The body re-uses insulin --

> it's more potent than an enzyme --, and elimination is just a matter

> of time.

>

> Correct?

>

> That would favour Pritikin's own bias against heart disease and

> the harmonious mention in the FAQ that heart disease is a major problem

> for diabetics.

>

--

Dave - 1:12:22 PM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, NPH

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[Guest guest]

whimsy2@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 01-02-09 09:28:39 EST, you write:

>

> << Just don't try to force anything on me. My numbers are right where I

> want them, thanks..

> >>

> ...and that's the important thing, of course. (But how could we force you?

> The hand reaching out of the computer screen and pushing that piece of candy

> out of your hand? <g>) Vicki

Nope, not this time anyway..

--

Dave - 1:22:22 PM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, NPH

-

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[Guest guest]

drmarion12@... wrote:

>

> I really think it is all Dave's fault. Period.

>

> n

I can live with that. I'm guilty of lots of things, and many things

that I won't even mention

--

Dave - 1:42:23 PM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, NPH

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[Guest guest]

drmarion12@... wrote:

>

> The only thing I see wrong is that its the old " someone said something to me

> about someone " and the mystery and that people are not told to speak for

> themselves so that we know who we have offended and when and how. It was too

> general of a message. I would have preferred to get an E-mail, even a blunt

> one, then to be left in mystery. I am not used to operating like that.

>

Cybertalk will never equate face to face. I'm sure you know that most

times the written word does not come accross as the sender wants it to.

Anyway, bottom line, I don't think that I've run accross anyone in this

group who is intentionally hurtful, or intentionally condescending. It

happens, but most times it's the zeal of the moment that takes over.

Hang in there Doc, as you know Adult Children always feel as if they are

at fault.

--

Dave - 1:42:23 PM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, NPH

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Davors Daily Aphorism:

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 01-02-09 21:18:20 EST, you write:

<< Vicki. It's a joke. Dave admits that he is guilty and if he hadn't have

stole his wife's chocolate we would not be having this list problem.

Don't point the finger, poke it.

n >>

ah, that's the problem with email. If it's a joke and I don't see an

emoticon sometimes it goes right by me. :-( (Glad it was a joke :-) V.

[Guest guest]

yuck....jello.... Dave, I am ashamed of you. Sugar free jello at that.....

[Guest guest]

Okay. Dave has admitted his guilt; the list is fixed and now what???

n

[Guest guest]

Seems to me that we've gone from discussing diabetes to discussing the

discussion. I find it helps me to manage my diabetes if we discuss diabetes. I

think e-mail is very prone to misunderstandings -- which raise my blood sugar --

and so we just have to make extra allowances. Can we assume that people here

don't mean to harm? When I ask questions -- or answer them sometimes -- I speak

from my experience of what's worked for me. I have nothing else from which to

speak. So I guess I don't get it either.

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave.

It's nice to be remembered. I'm still trying to catch up with all of the

email. Boy! Our group sure is growing. Hmmmm, maybe the group isn't

growing as much as me growing so much older. *sigh* I would have said

*giggle* but that ol' poked fun at me and said that ladies my

age don't giggle and I told him that this one does. *smile* At my age you

can do anything you feel like doing. I just don't feel like doing much

anymore. I'm saving my energy for mine and Susie's big birthday bash when

she reaches 100 and we're going to to the " hokey-pokey " or whatever dance

she said we'd do.

I'm still watching your cute comments. Keep 'em coming kiddo.

Tootie

Different Strokes for Different Folks

>

> Kindness, support, sharing, compassion. That's why we're here. Let's

all

> please be considerate of each other.

>

> Thanks,

> Teri

>

> *clap! clap! clap!* That's my way of thinking too Teri. You put it

very

> well.

>

> Love you,

> Tootie

>

--

Dave - 9:27:17 AM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, NPH

-

Davors Daily Aphorism:

I know it all. I just can't remember it all at once.

--

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[Guest guest]

drmarion12@... wrote:

>

> Vicki. It's a joke. Dave admits that he is guilty and if he hadn't have

stole his wife's chocolate we would not be having this list problem.

> Don't point the finger, poke it.

> n

It's amazing what one little piece of chocolate can do to a diabetic

list!!

I stuck with my sugar-free jello for tonight's snack.

--

Dave - 9:32:31 PM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, NPH

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[Guest guest]

Your're right. I meant d/c the Ritalin. Take some Zanax or Ativan.

n

[Guest guest]

Type I is supposed to be caused by a virus. He was positive for Islet Cell

Antibodies when diagnosed which means that whatever virus he had, the immune

system signalled the body to attack the beta (islet) cells in the pancreas.

No one know what causes this to happen or which virus. My other children

were tested and were negative for Islet Cell Antibodies and apparently, if

they had the same virus, did not have the same autoimmune reaction as Gabe.

n

[Guest guest]

Pray to G-d that there is a cure before Gabe is old enough to be a health

care professional.

Starting teaching him already and boy does he learn quick. If he want to

choose his meals, as he wants to do these days, then he will have to

calculate the grams glucose and the dose. I will check, of course, before I

inject

n

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 02/10/2001 2:18:40 PM Central Standard Time,

whimsy2@... writes:

<<

<< .I am doing the noodle dance. >>

Thanks, Ressy! <g> V.

>>

Your welcome....actually the noodle dance is a whole lot more fun than the

brocoli dance

ressy

ducking

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 02/10/2001 2:37:17 PM Central Standard Time,

drmarion12@... writes:

<<

Your're right. I meant d/c the Ritalin. Take some Zanax or Ativan.

n

>>

Ok now I have all these pills lined up here....now which one am I supposed to

take. I am too old for this!!!!

ressy

going over to sit on the confusion couch....where are the pillows for the

couch....DAVE