Re: Scared after attack - doc wants to remove GB

[Guest guest]

I can't help you with most of your questions but I can tell you that I

passed stones even bigger than an inch in diameter. One more than

two inches around!!! I had no pain at all using the flush and I have

done 6 of them so far. I would give it a go if I were you. The surgery

is always an option later if the flushes do not work for you.

Just my opinion.

Sevyn

randabra@... wrote:

> Hi everyone. I had a major scare last week. As usual, I have been

> working very late, skipping dinner, getting no sleep, etc. One night

> we out to dinner and I didn't want to be a party pooper, so I drank

> wine and had very heavy food (i.e. a fried calzone with 3 kinds of

> cheeses). This was really stupid of me since I have a duodenal ulcer

> and gall stones. Strangely, I usually don't have a problem with

> fatty foods (i.e. I eat Mc's with no problem). However, this

> time, I think my body wasn't used to eating such a heavy meal and I

> had a major gall bladder attack - at least I think that's what it

> was. I had terrible pain for hours. I took antihistamines (which

> helped last time), I took hydrocodone (Vicoden), but still no

> relief. After throwing my guts up (sorry to be gross) I took

> Percocet and finally got to sleep at 3:00 AM. I went to the doctor

> and he said I should have my gb removed because it is a ticking time

> bomb. I told him about the flush, but he said that it's for gall

> bladders that work and mine probably isn't functioning because the

> wall is thick and scarred. He also said one of the stones is about

> 1/2 inch (1 cm) and it could get stuck on the way out. Has anyone

> had the experience of having a scarred gb with a thick wall? I'm

> afraid to do the flush if my gb isn't functioning. I'm even more

> afraid to have the surgery. Any comments are appreciated. Thanks.

>

>

> Learn more from our experience, more then 200 liver flush stories:

> http:///messages/gallstones-testimonials

>

> Liver Cleanse Recipe: http://www.CureZone.com/cleanse/liver/

>

> Web Sites for more information:

> http://CureZone.com/gallstones/

> http://www.liverdoctor.com/

> http://www.sensiblehealth.com/

>

> List Unsubscribe: gallstones-unsubscribe

> Post message: gallstones

>

> Group page: gallstones

> Group Archives: http:///messages/gallstones

> You are receiving this email because you elected to subscribe to the

Gallstones group on 's groups. By joining the list you agree to hold

yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself! Have a nice day !

>

>

[Guest guest]

<< I told him about the flush, but he said that it's for gall

bladders that work and mine probably isn't functioning because the

wall is thick and scarred. He also said one of the stones is about

1/2 inch (1 cm) and it could get stuck on the way out. Has anyone

had the experience of having a scarred gb with a thick wall? I'm

afraid to do the flush if my gb isn't functioning. I'm even more

afraid to have the surgery. Any comments are appreciated. Thanks.

>>

***************

Hello,

So sorry about your GB attack. They're horrible!!! I've had several of

them, but I had a Class 1 attack back in early December to which I went to

ER. From having just a sonogram, they said that I had a very enlarged GB.

However, I didn't have surgery. After taking all the high-powered

antibiotics that they gave me, plus pain meds, I decided to start cleansing.

Since this time, I've had minor attacks from eating something wrong, which I

try to watch. Sometimes it's something healthy, but might be a trigger food,

like eggs are a trigger food sometimes for me.

All I can tell you is that in one of my cleanses, I passed a gallstone that

was about 1 inch. It freaked my hubby out. I do believe that the bile ducts

are very pliable, and they stretch even more when you do the Epsom Salts or

some times of magnesium, like magnesium citrate. Magnesium relaxes the bile

ducts.

Hope this helps!

Susie

[Guest guest]

What can you expect from an MD ?

MD always wants to remove GB! That is all he learnd, and that is all he is

allowed to suggest, and not risk to loose his licence.

Don't never forget that.

He can not suggest you to do something what is not recognized by medical

establishment.

If he do so, he risks too much.

Never expect an MD to support flashing!

Even if he knows what it is, He can NOT SUPPORT YOU!

HE RISKS LOOSING HIS LICENCE TO PRACTICE MEDICIN.(Unles G.W.Bush is his

best friend.)

If you want to flush, you have to do it on your own, without help of your MD!

MD will never help you do flush!

Why would he risk his future for your GB ?

---------------------------------------------------------------

Would you give up your profession for saving his GB ?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------

HOW TO GAIN courage to flush liver and GB ?

To gain courage to use Epsom Salts, do next:

Take daily 1 tee-spoon of Epsom salts with 1 cup of water and a few drops

of freshly pressed lemon juice.

It can be the first thing you take in the morning.

-------------------------------------------------

To gain courage to use Olive Oil, do next:

Take daily 1tbsp of Olive Oil (Extra Virgine) blended with 1 or 2 tbsp

freshly pressed lemon or grapefruit juice.

Then one week later:

Take daily 2tbsp of Olive Oil (Extra Virgine) blended with 2 or 3 tbsp

freshly pressed lemon or grapefruit juice.

Then next day

Take 3tbsp of Olive Oil (Extra Virgine) blended with 3 tbsp freshly pressed

lemon or grapefruit juice.

Then next day

Take 4tbsp of Olive Oil (Extra Virgine) blended with 4 tbsp freshly pressed

lemon or grapefruit juice.

Then next day Take 5 tbsp + 5 tbsp

Then next day Take 6 tbsp + 6 tbsp

Then next day Take 8 tbsp + 8 tbsp

Then next day Take 10 tbsp + 10 tbsp

Then next day Take 15 tbsp + 15 tbsp

Then next day Take 1 oz + 1 oz

Then, you decide! It is always your choice!

" Olive Oil " should always be " Extra Virgine " , cold pressed, and whenever

possible choose ORGANIC.

[Guest guest]

> Hi everyone. I had a major scare last week. As usual, I have been

> working very late, skipping dinner, getting no sleep, etc. One

night

> we out to dinner and I didn't want to be a party pooper, so I drank

> wine and had very heavy food (i.e. a fried calzone with 3 kinds of

> cheeses). This was really stupid of me since I have a duodenal

ulcer

> and gall stones. Strangely, I usually don't have a problem with

> fatty foods (i.e. I eat Mc's with no problem). However, this

> time, I think my body wasn't used to eating such a heavy meal and I

> had a major gall bladder attack - at least I think that's what it

> was. I had terrible pain for hours. I took antihistamines (which

> helped last time), I took hydrocodone (Vicoden), but still no

> relief. After throwing my guts up (sorry to be gross) I took

> Percocet and finally got to sleep at 3:00 AM. I went to the doctor

> and he said I should have my gb removed because it is a ticking

time

> bomb. I told him about the flush, but he said that it's for gall

> bladders that work and mine probably isn't functioning because the

> wall is thick and scarred. He also said one of the stones is about

> 1/2 inch (1 cm) and it could get stuck on the way out. Has anyone

> had the experience of having a scarred gb with a thick wall? I'm

> afraid to do the flush if my gb isn't functioning. I'm even more

> afraid to have the surgery. Any comments are appreciated. Thanks.

Dear Randabra,

if they determined, that your gallblader really is scarred and full

of stones, then I am afraid it would be prudent to really consider

the operation. Especially if it was recommended by a doctor who is

generally not opposed to the flushes. I would advise you to also get

a second opinion from another gastro-specialist.

Flushes are dangerous even with healthy gallbladers, let alone

injured ones, so I would not recommend doing one.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 08/24/2001 7:43:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ribok2000@... writes:

Dear Randabra,

if they determined, that your gallblader really is scarred and full of stones, then I am afraid it would be prudent to really consider the operation. Especially if it was recommended by a doctor who is generally not opposed to the flushes. I would advise you to also get a second opinion from another gastro-specialist.

Flushes are dangerous even with healthy gallbladers, let alone injured ones, so I would not recommend doing one.

Dear DOCTOR-WHO-EVER-YOU-ARE:

I must disagree with you conclusion and question wether you have read ANY of the postings here...The Cleanse is SAFE and Effective

PERIOD -Tom-

[Guest guest]

What Steve and Tom said!!! And more just like it. The only negative thing that I

have been able to find is hearsay and uneducated guesses.

Sevyn

P.S Did you two miss your saucer of milk this morning? lol

..

Steve Barwick wrote:

> You wrote, " Doing the flush even with a healthy gallbladder there is always a

chance that one of the stones will astray to the pancreas and cause some serious

damage. With a scarred gallbladder and a

> sudden pressure on it, may that be a flush or something else, you risk the

bursting of the gallbladder which can be fatal. Regards. "

>

> Hi,

>

> What is your personal experience with the flush? How many have you done, or

witnessed being done? What were the results, in terms of how many resulted in

death or injury to the patient, and how many were

> successful? What is your specific evidence and documentation of what you are

saying, and where can we see it to verify it for ourselves? Why are you on a

gallstone flush list, if you are apparently so

> opposed to it? What is your purpose of being here? Just curious...

>

> Regards,

> Steve B.

>

> ribok2000@... wrote:

>

> >

> > > In a message dated 08/24/2001 7:43:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> > > ribok2000@l... writes:

> > >

> > >

> > > > Dear Randabra,

> > > >

> > > > if they determined, that your gallblader really is scarred and

> > full

> > > > of stones, then I am afraid it would be prudent to really

> > consider

> > > > the operation. Especially if it was recommended by a doctor who

> > is

> > > > generally not opposed to the flushes. I would advise you to also

> > get

> > > > a second opinion from another gastro-specialist.

> > > >

> > > > Flushes are dangerous even with healthy gallbladers, let alone

> > > > injured ones, so I would not recommend doing one.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Dear DOCTOR-WHO-EVER-YOU-ARE:

> > > I must disagree with you conclusion and question wether you have

> > read ANY of

> > > the postings here...The Cleanse is SAFE and Effective

> > > PERIOD -Tom-

> >

> > Doing the flush even with a healthy gallbladder there is always a

> > chance that one of the stones will astray to the pancreas and cause

> > some serious damage. With a scarred gallbladder and a sudden pressure

> > on it, may that be a flush or something else, you risk the bursting

> > of the gallbladder which can be fatal.

> > Regards.

> >

> >

> > Learn more from our experience, more then 200 liver flush stories:

> > http:///messages/gallstones-testimonials

> >

> > Liver Cleanse Recipe: http://www.CureZone.com/cleanse/liver/

> >

> > Web Sites for more information:

> > http://CureZone.com/gallstones/

> > http://www.liverdoctor.com/

> > http://www.sensiblehealth.com/

> >

> > List Unsubscribe: gallstones-unsubscribe

> > Post message: gallstones

> >

> > Group page: gallstones

> > Group Archives: http:///messages/gallstones

> > You are receiving this email because you elected to subscribe to the

Gallstones group on 's groups. By joining the list you agree to hold

yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself! Have a nice day !

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 08/24/2001 7:43:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> ribok2000@l... writes:

>

>

> > Dear Randabra,

> >

> > if they determined, that your gallblader really is scarred and

full

> > of stones, then I am afraid it would be prudent to really

consider

> > the operation. Especially if it was recommended by a doctor who

is

> > generally not opposed to the flushes. I would advise you to also

get

> > a second opinion from another gastro-specialist.

> >

> > Flushes are dangerous even with healthy gallbladers, let alone

> > injured ones, so I would not recommend doing one.

> >

> >

>

> Dear DOCTOR-WHO-EVER-YOU-ARE:

> I must disagree with you conclusion and question wether you have

read ANY of

> the postings here...The Cleanse is SAFE and Effective

> PERIOD -Tom-

Doing the flush even with a healthy gallbladder there is always a

chance that one of the stones will astray to the pancreas and cause

some serious damage. With a scarred gallbladder and a sudden pressure

on it, may that be a flush or something else, you risk the bursting

of the gallbladder which can be fatal.

Regards.

[Guest guest]

You wrote, " Doing the flush even with a healthy gallbladder there is always a

chance that one of the stones will astray to the pancreas and cause some serious

damage. With a scarred gallbladder and a

sudden pressure on it, may that be a flush or something else, you risk the

bursting of the gallbladder which can be fatal. Regards. "

Hi,

What is your personal experience with the flush? How many have you done, or

witnessed being done? What were the results, in terms of how many resulted in

death or injury to the patient, and how many were

successful? What is your specific evidence and documentation of what you are

saying, and where can we see it to verify it for ourselves? Why are you on a

gallstone flush list, if you are apparently so

opposed to it? What is your purpose of being here? Just curious...

Regards,

Steve B.

ribok2000@... wrote:

>

> > In a message dated 08/24/2001 7:43:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> > ribok2000@l... writes:

> >

> >

> > > Dear Randabra,

> > >

> > > if they determined, that your gallblader really is scarred and

> full

> > > of stones, then I am afraid it would be prudent to really

> consider

> > > the operation. Especially if it was recommended by a doctor who

> is

> > > generally not opposed to the flushes. I would advise you to also

> get

> > > a second opinion from another gastro-specialist.

> > >

> > > Flushes are dangerous even with healthy gallbladers, let alone

> > > injured ones, so I would not recommend doing one.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Dear DOCTOR-WHO-EVER-YOU-ARE:

> > I must disagree with you conclusion and question wether you have

> read ANY of

> > the postings here...The Cleanse is SAFE and Effective

> > PERIOD -Tom-

>

> Doing the flush even with a healthy gallbladder there is always a

> chance that one of the stones will astray to the pancreas and cause

> some serious damage. With a scarred gallbladder and a sudden pressure

> on it, may that be a flush or something else, you risk the bursting

> of the gallbladder which can be fatal.

> Regards.

>

>

> Learn more from our experience, more then 200 liver flush stories:

> http:///messages/gallstones-testimonials

>

> Liver Cleanse Recipe: http://www.CureZone.com/cleanse/liver/

>

> Web Sites for more information:

> http://CureZone.com/gallstones/

> http://www.liverdoctor.com/

> http://www.sensiblehealth.com/

>

> List Unsubscribe: gallstones-unsubscribe

> Post message: gallstones

>

> Group page: gallstones

> Group Archives: http:///messages/gallstones

> You are receiving this email because you elected to subscribe to the

Gallstones group on 's groups. By joining the list you agree to hold

yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself! Have a nice day !

>

>

[Guest guest]

> You wrote, " Doing the flush even with a healthy gallbladder there

is always a chance that one of the stones will astray to the pancreas

and cause some serious damage. With a scarred gallbladder and a

> sudden pressure on it, may that be a flush or something else, you

risk the bursting of the gallbladder which can be fatal. Regards. "

>

> Hi,

>

> What is your personal experience with the flush? How many have you

done, or witnessed being done? What were the results, in terms of

how many resulted in death or injury to the patient, and how many were

> successful? What is your specific evidence and documentation of

what you are saying, and where can we see it to verify it for

ourselves? Why are you on a gallstone flush list, if you are

apparently so

> opposed to it? What is your purpose of being here? Just curious...

>

> Regards,

> Steve B.

>

>

>

Dear Steve,

If you are interested in the exact data and specifications regarding

morbidity and mortalitty regarding bursting of the scarred

gallbladders, The American Gastroenterological Association, should

provide you with the numbers.

Regards.

[Guest guest]

At 02:42 25.08.2001 +0000, you wrote:

>Flushes are dangerous even with healthy gallbladders, let alone

>injured ones, so I would not recommend doing one.

Hello!

We are looking for stories from people who did flush and where flush have

caused serious health problems. To me it sounds like you may have some

information to share with us?

Do you know someone who did flush and encountered serious health problems?

Please share it with us. It doesn’t have to be your personal experience.

It may sound that people in this group are only pushing flush and are blind

for any other input, but I am actually looking for stories where flush have

been shown dangerous. I am interested in truth, not myth. We all assume

that there is a certain danger in doing flush, but so far we have not been

very successful in finding a proof for our hypothesis.

I assume that dong flush is as dangerous as choosing a car as a mean of

transportation. We all know that by choosing to sit inside car, we may end

up dead, or in wheel chair.

Unfortunately, we still have no hard data pointing towards accidents caused

by flushing.

So, it is so far, only a hypothesis. We still don’t get information about

someone dying while trying to do a flush.

------------------------------------------------------------

So far, we have only collected over 50 stories where surgeries have been

shown dangerous. (Read messages collected in gallstones-testimonials

archive. link is posted below this message.) We still don't know exactly

how many people (%) who do surgery actually end-up worse (pain, IBS-

frequent diarrhea, needs for repeated surgeries, repeated gallstones stuck

inside bile ducts years after surgery, heart diseases, blood pressure

diseases...) but different analysts estimates that it is between 15% and 30%.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------

That mean that ever third or fourth or sixth person who choose surgery

would end up worse.

I consider it a high risk.

From your comment it sounds you believe that surgery is generally safer

then flush.

That means that you believe that risk of ending up worse after doing flush

is over 15% or over 30%. You actually believe that at least every sixth

person who does flush ends up worse.

We are over 300 in this group, and over 150 of us reported doing flush.

There are over 150 people altogether in other groups (cures for cancer, Dr,

gallstones, fibromyalgiacured, cures for AIDS) who reported doing this flush.

If flush would be as dangerous as surgery, at least 40 people, members of

this group or other named groups, would report serious (long lasting)

health problems caused by flushing. Unfortunately (for hypothesis), we

still have no one single person who reported serious health problems after

flushing. But, I know, and I hope, I will find at least one person.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Can you share with us information you have?

Agnes

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/26/01 2:28:34 PM, ribok2000@... writes:

> " alternative thinkers " themselves point out. (They

>claim that real gallstones float, too. Liars.)

Slow down buddy!!! Real gallstones definitely float!!!!!!! My husband had

his gallbladder out and we went to the lab and picked up the gallstones. They

are very light in weight and they float! By the way I would be happy to send

anybody a picture of his stones.

[Guest guest]

<< f you know a little basic chemistry, you'll realize what is

> happening. The Epsom salts are magnesium sulfate, and the grapefruit

> contains some

> complex carbohydrates. When these slosh around in the stomach and

> small intestine, they'll form a tough film which will encase drops of

> olive oil.

> This will produce some yellowish balls which will float in the

> toilet.

> >>

*********************

Hello,

This shows your total ignorance....You're trying to be a comic, right?

Those of us who have done a multitude of cleanses, certainly know what we're

passing. This is too funny!

I'm fixing to do my 11th cleanse, and each and every time it's very

different. No two times are the same. One thing was almost the sand stuff

and very few little yellowish stones.

One time was dark green, with aqua in them. Tons of " large " ones on this

cleanse. No small yellowish-tannish brown ones at all; no sand. And one was

about 1 inch!!! IMMEDIATE REFLIEF.....

I don't know who you think you are, but my friend who's been doing the

cleanse over 10 years now, he has no GB problems at all. Plus, he doesn't

use Epsom Salts at all. He just uses olive oil/lemon.

Your problem is that you've taken medical training, which actually is

teaching lies, lies, and more lies. What does this do? Doesn't it put out

more liars?

[Guest guest]

You wrote, "If you are interested in the exact data and specifications

regarding morbidity and mortalitty regarding bursting of the scarred gallbladders,

The American Gastroenterological Association, should provide you with the

numbers."

Dear Doctor,

In other words, you personally don't know, and you are passing the buck.

You are "winging it." You don't have any actual experience with the

flush, and you don't have a clue if anyone has ever been hurt by it, or

not. You are just trying to scare people. You know, and I know,

that the American Gastroenterological Association isn't going to have any

data on people who have done the flush -- with scarred gallbladders, or

with perfectly fine gallbladders -- because they do not acknowledge the

flush, and they do not keep data on that which they do not acknowledge.

Answer this please: who are you, and why are you here?

Regards,

Steve B.

ribok2000@... wrote:

--- In gallstones@y..., Steve Barwick <barwick@t...>

wrote:

> You wrote, "Doing the flush even with a healthy gallbladder there

is always a chance that one of the stones will astray to the pancreas

and cause some serious damage. With a scarred gallbladder and a

> sudden pressure on it, may that be a flush or something else, you

risk the bursting of the gallbladder which can be fatal. Regards."

>

> Hi,

>

> What is your personal experience with the flush? How many have

you

done, or witnessed being done? What were the results, in terms

of

how many resulted in death or injury to the patient, and how many were

> successful? What is your specific evidence and documentation

of

what you are saying, and where can we see it to verify it for

ourselves? Why are you on a gallstone flush list, if you are

apparently so

> opposed to it? What is your purpose of being here? Just

curious...

>

> Regards,

> Steve B.

>

>

>

Dear Steve,

If you are interested in the exact data and specifications regarding

morbidity and mortalitty regarding bursting of the scarred

gallbladders, The American Gastroenterological Association, should

provide you with the numbers.

Regards.

[Guest guest]

> You wrote, " If you are interested in the exact data and

specifications regarding morbidity and mortalitty regarding bursting

of the scarred gallbladders, The American Gastroenterological

Association,

> should provide you with the numbers. "

>

> Dear Doctor,

>

> In other words, you personally don't know, and you are passing the

buck. You are " winging it. " You don't have any actual experience

with the flush, and you don't have a clue if anyone has ever been hurt

> by it, or not. You are just trying to scare people. You know, and

I know, that the American Gastroenterological Association isn't going

to have any data on people who have done the flush -- with scarred

> gallbladders, or with perfectly fine gallbladders -- because they

do not acknowledge the flush, and they do not keep data on that which

they do not acknowledge. Answer this please: who are you, and why

> are you here?

>

> Regards,

> Steve B.

>

>

Gallstone Flush

People who have gallstones, or think they have gallstones, are

invited to " flush " them out by swallowing a concoction of 1/2 cup of

olive oil, a big

grapefruit, 4 tablespoons of Epsom salts, and three cups of water.

It was a nice idea, and interesting things will appear in the toilet

bowl soon after. But I'm afraid that they're not your gallstones.

Here's why:

Real gallstones are faceted polyhedra, like the ones in the

picture on the links below, or else shaped like mulberries. What

you'll get from

the recipe are spheres. One of my correspondents describes a

friend who saves the spheres and displayed them to his friends.

Real gallstones hurt bad when they pass through the cystic and

common bile ducts.

Real gallstones sink in water. (As an autopsy pathologist, I'm

very familiar with this.) The " gallstones " you'll produce from this

recipe will

float, as the " alternative thinkers " themselves point out. (They

claim that real gallstones float, too. Liars.)

If you know a little basic chemistry, you'll realize what is

happening. The Epsom salts are magnesium sulfate, and the grapefruit

contains some

complex carbohydrates. When these slosh around in the stomach and

small intestine, they'll form a tough film which will encase drops of

olive oil.

This will produce some yellowish balls which will float in the

toilet.

Hulda Regehr , the author of " The Cure for all Cancers " and " The

Cure For HIV/AIDS " promotes this. Since she claims to have both a

doctorate in naturopathy and a Ph.D. in something (the latter

implying having done substantial original lab research), one would

think she would

have made an experiment with a real gallstone and discovered that it

sinks. There's a nice photo which she took from my friend,

pathologist Ed

Klatt. She calls them " such small stones " though they're obviously 7-

10 mm across. She thinks the stones she displayed formed in the liver

and

" rolled " into the gallbladder, which is silly. She says

gallstones " can be of any color " which is a hoot. She also claims

that the major cause of

gallstones is wearing shoes.

If you want to believe these people, that is your business. If you

try the purge, please chew your grapefruit up thoroughly. Otherwise,

you're asking

for a gastic bezoar and a trip to the endoscopist to remove the

obstruction.

taken from http://www.pathguy.com/altermed.htm

[Guest guest]

Dear Autopsy Pathologist,

I have heard all of this before. I am relatively new to this list,

and have already been bombarded with this negative info on the GB flush

from the medical doctors I've spoken with. The problem is, I can't

get any of you guys (orthodox medical doctors) to document anything

you are saying. You use all of the big $20 words to impress me with

your knowledge, but provide no documentation. My GP said the same

things you are saying, but when questioned thoroughly he has never seen

anyone who has done a flush, much less anyone who has been harmed

by a flush. Therefore, he is merely parroting the scare tactics

he has been taught in med school, which he has never thought to document

for himself.

My surgeons (I've been to two now) both say the same things you are

saying. But upon repeated questioning, they too have never

met anyone who has done a flush, much less anyone who has ever

been harmed by flushing.

So, my question is, WHERE IS ALL OF THIS INFORMATION COMING FROM ABOUT

THESE ALLEGED DANGERS OF THE GB FLUSH? No one on your side of the

aisle seems to know where to find the documentation. They just "know"

that the flush is dangerous. Yet they've never personally seen

it cause harm to anyone, nor can they provide any documentation for me

to look at with my own eyes. This is medicine? This

is science? You wonder why rational people begin to listen to someone

like Hulda , when all you have to offer are undocumented scare tactics,

and painful and risky surgeries at $25,000 a pop? Geesh!

When I joined this list three weeks ago I was in a total panic.

I had experienced five painful GB attacks inside of two weeks, and had

been to my GP, the ultrasound clinic, and finally to two different surgeons,

and they all attempted to scare the hell out of me, and told me

there was no option but immediate surgery to stop the pain.

But I had been told 20 years ago by medical doctors that my "diseased spleen"

needed to be surgically removed immediately or it was going to necrotize

in my body (they told me it was "dying"), that it would cause a massive

infection, and that I'd die. And here I am 20 years later, still

alive and kicking, and with my spleen still intact and working

just fine, thank you. Fifteen years ago when I went to the hospital

for pressure buildup inside of my ears after an airline flight, I was told

by medical doctors that I needed to have holes drilled through my ear drums,

and that I'd have to have tubes inserted into those holes, and that I'd

have to go around for the rest of my life with these tubes sticking out

of my ears. If I didn't have this operation, they told me, my eardrums

would "rupture" and I'd be deaf for life. Yet here I am fifteen years

later with with no surgery, and my eardrums -- and my hearing -- completely

intact.

So, perhaps if you can let down your shield of self-righteousness for

just a moment, you can understand why I tend to greet the intonations of

orthodox medical doctors with a healthy dose of skepticism, and why I insist

that they document their claims to me. The simple bottom line

from my personal experience over a period of decades is that doctors don't

always know everything.

So, rather than allow myself to be stampeded into an immediate gallbladder

surgery I began looking for more information. Through the book,

and the people on this list who have been kind enough to share their experiences,

I learned that I could alleviate or even stop the GB attacks through increased

water intake and specific dietary change. My doctors and the surgeons

scoffed. "That won't work. You'll be back in a week, crying

to us from the emergency room" they said. But it has been nearly

three weeks, I've not had another attack since making the dietary changes

I learned about from the book and from the shared personal experiences

of people on this list. And the side benefits have been marvelous:

As of today, I have now lost 10 pounds, my blood pressure (previously always

high) is down a full 10 points (both numbers), and I have more energy than

I've had in years.

I am not under the illusion that my gallbladder problems are over.

I am not under the illusion that I will never need GB surgery. Nor

am I under the illusion that the shared experiences offered on this list,

or the information offered in the book, is perfect or without risk.

But one thing I know for sure is this: What you have presented

here in your tirade against Hulda and the liver/GB flush is simply

a case of the pot calling the kettle black. You scream "Nothing that

woman says has been documented by medical science!" And when I try

to find documentation for the frightening claims you and your medical colleagues

are making about the flush, I can't find any. And when I ask you for

the documentation for the claims, you can't provide any.

How do I know that you are not just another orthodox medical lackey

driven by your hatred of alternative medicine because of all of the money

you and your colleagues lose when people are successful at healing themselves

naturally? Your colleagues are sure making a lot of dough doing lap-cholys

at $25,000 a pop. On the other hand, no one is making much money

off the sale of epsom salts, olive oil and grapefruit. My common

sense tells me to follow the money when trying to ascertain who

is working to protect their own interests, and who is working to help people

help themselves.

I ask you again: who are you and why are you here?

Regards,

Steve B.

Gallstone Flush

People who have gallstones, or think they have gallstones, are

invited to "flush" them out by swallowing a concoction of 1/2 cup of

olive oil, a big

grapefruit, 4 tablespoons of Epsom salts, and three cups of water.

It was a nice idea, and interesting things will appear in the toilet

bowl soon after. But I'm afraid that they're not your gallstones.

Here's why:

Real gallstones are faceted polyhedra, like

the ones in the

picture on the links below, or else shaped like mulberries. What

you'll get from

the recipe are spheres. One of my correspondents

describes a

friend who saves the spheres and displayed them to his friends.

Real gallstones hurt bad when they pass through

the cystic and

common bile ducts.

Real gallstones sink in water. (As an autopsy

pathologist, I'm

very familiar with this.) The "gallstones" you'll produce from this

recipe will

float, as the "alternative thinkers" themselves

point out. (They

claim that real gallstones float, too. Liars.)

If you know a little basic chemistry, you'll realize what is

happening. The Epsom salts are magnesium sulfate, and the grapefruit

contains some

complex carbohydrates. When these slosh around in the stomach and

small intestine, they'll form a tough film which will encase drops

of

olive oil.

This will produce some yellowish balls which will float in the

toilet.

Hulda Regehr , the author of "The Cure for all Cancers" and "The

Cure For HIV/AIDS" promotes this. Since she claims to have both a

doctorate in naturopathy and a Ph.D. in something (the latter

implying having done substantial original lab research), one would

think she would

have made an experiment with a real gallstone and discovered that it

sinks. There's a nice photo which she took from my friend,

pathologist Ed

Klatt. She calls them "such small stones" though they're obviously

7-

10 mm across. She thinks the stones she displayed formed in the liver

and

"rolled" into the gallbladder, which is silly. She says

gallstones "can be of any color" which is a hoot. She also claims

that the major cause of

gallstones is wearing shoes.

If you want to believe these people, that is your business. If you

try the purge, please chew your grapefruit up thoroughly. Otherwise,

you're asking

for a gastic bezoar and a trip to the endoscopist to remove the

obstruction.

taken from http://www.pathguy.com/altermed.htm

[Guest guest]

At 21:26 26.08.2001 +0000, you wrote:

> Real gallstones are faceted polyhedra, like the ones in the

>picture on the links below, or else shaped like mulberries. What

>you'll get from

> the recipe are spheres.

Wrong.

Most people who flush, get gallstones that look very much the same as

gallstones on pictures on this web site:

http://www.curezone.com/gallstones/

As you can see on those pictures, gallstones can have different shape, size

and colour.

No one doing flush have ever got perfect spheres. Most flushed galstones

are totally irregular in their shape, and you will never find 2 looking the

same. (Same colour and same shape.)

You wrote:

> Real gallstones sink in water.

Only calcified gallstones sink in water. Calcified gallstones are rear.

Cholesterol gallstones (most common one) float. Cholesterol is lighter then

water.

> She thinks the stones she displayed formed in the liver

>and

> " rolled " into the gallbladder, which is silly. She says

>gallstones " can be of any color " which is a hoot.

Those photos are actually proof that stones can form inside liver:

http://www.curezone.com/gallstones/

You will see a stone inside liver.

It is also proof that gallstones " can be of any color " .

Those GB full of stones are removed surgically!

------------------------

But lets forget all this, and assume that flush does not remove gallstones.

Questions:

Why does repeated flushing cures food allergies and food intollerance?

Why does repeated flushing cures shoulder, and arm pain?

Why does repeated flushing cures gallstones attack?

Why does repeated flushing improves digestion?

Why does repeated flushing improves overall health?

Why does people feel younger after several flushes?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Why did MD's use flush as a main remedy for gallstones only 100 years ago ?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Seems like those olive oil spheres are some kind of magic!

Agnes

[Guest guest]

---------------------------------------------

gallstones

From: ssskrc@...

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:54:45 EDT

Reply-gallstones

Subject: Re: Re: Scared after attack - doc wants to remove GB

In a message dated 8/26/01 2:28:34 PM, ribok2000@... writes:

> " alternative thinkers " themselves point out. (They

>claim that real gallstones float, too. Liars.)

Slow down buddy!!!

Real gallstones definitely float!!!!!!!

My husband had

his gallbladder out and we went to the lab and picked up the gallstones. They

are very light in weight and they float! By the way I would be happy to send

anybody a picture of his stones.

[Guest guest]

--- > How do I know that you are not just another orthodox medical

lackey driven by your hatred of alternative medicine because of all

of the money you and your colleagues lose when people are successful

at

> healing themselves naturally? Your colleagues are sure making a

lot of dough doing lap-cholys at $25,000 a pop. On the other hand,

no one is making much money off the sale of epsom salts, olive oil and

> grapefruit. My common sense tells me to follow the money when

trying to ascertain who is working to protect their own interests,

and who is working to help people help themselves.

>

You got me. We are all a part of great conspiracy and are afraid we

are going to lose major $$$ since a handful of people will revert to

this oliveoil flush sillyness.

[Guest guest]

Steve Barwick wrote a wonderful rebuttal to yet another troll trying to

infiltrate out list.:

> Dear Autopsy Pathologist,

>

> I have heard all of this before. I am relatively new to this list,

> and have already been bombarded with this negative info on the GB

> flush from the medical doctors I've spoken with. The problem is, I

> can't get any of you guys (orthodox medical doctors) to document

> anything you are saying. You use all of the big $20 words to impress

> me with your knowledge, but provide no documentation. My GP said the

> same things you are saying, but when questioned thoroughly he has

> never seen anyone who has done a flush, much less anyone who has been

> harmed by a flush. Therefore, he is merely parroting the scare

> tactics he has been taught in med school, which he has never thought

> to document for himself.

>

> My surgeons (I've been to two now) both say the same things you are

> saying. But upon repeated questioning, they too have nevermet anyone

> who has done a flush, much less anyone who has ever been harmed by

> flushing.

>

> So, my question is, WHERE IS ALL OF THIS INFORMATION COMING FROM ABOUT

> THESE ALLEGED DANGERS OF THE GB FLUSH? No one on your side of the

> aisle seems to know where to find the documentation. They just " know "

> that the flush is dangerous. Yet they've never personally seen it

> cause harm to anyone, nor can they provide any documentation for me to

> look at with my own eyes. This is medicine? This is science? You

> wonder why rational people begin to listen to someone like Hulda

> , when all you have to offer are undocumented scare tactics, and

> painful and risky surgeries at $25,000 a pop? Geesh!

>

> When I joined this list three weeks ago I was in a total panic. I had

> experienced five painful GB attacks inside of two weeks, and had been

> to my GP, the ultrasound clinic, and finally to two different

> surgeons, and they all attempted to scare the hell out of me, and told

> me there was no option but immediate surgery to stop the pain. But I

> had been told 20 years ago by medical doctors that my " diseased

> spleen " needed to be surgically removed immediately or it was going to

> necrotize in my body (they told me it was " dying " ), that it would

> cause a massive infection, and that I'd die. And here I am 20 years

> later, still alive and kicking, and with my spleen still intact and

> working just fine, thank you. Fifteen years ago when I went to the

> hospital for pressure buildup inside of my ears after an airline

> flight, I was told by medical doctors that I needed to have holes

> drilled through my ear drums, and that I'd have to have tubes inserted

> into those holes, and that I'd have to go around for the rest of my

> life with these tubes sticking out of my ears. If I didn't have this

> operation, they told me, my eardrums would " rupture " and I'd be deaf

> for life. Yet here I am fifteen years later with with no surgery, and

> my eardrums -- and my hearing -- completely intact.

>

> So, perhaps if you can let down your shield of self-righteousness for

> just a moment, you can understand why I tend to greet the intonations

> of orthodox medical doctors with a healthy dose of skepticism, and why

> I insist that they document their claims to me. The simple bottom

> line from my personal experience over a period of decades is that

> doctors don't always know everything.

>

> So, rather than allow myself to be stampeded into an immediate

> gallbladder surgery I began looking for more information. Through the

> book, and the people on this list who have been kind enough to

> share their experiences, I learned that I could alleviate or even stop

> the GB attacks through increased water intake and specific dietary

> change. My doctors and the surgeons scoffed. " That won't work.

> You'll be back in a week, crying to us from the emergency room " they

> said. But it has been nearly three weeks, I've not had another attack

> since making the dietary changes I learned about from the book

> and from the shared personal experiences of people on this list. And

> the side benefits have been marvelous: As of today, I have now lost

> 10 pounds, my blood pressure (previously always high) is down a full

> 10 points (both numbers), and I have more energy than I've had in

> years.

>

> I am not under the illusion that my gallbladder problems are over. I

> am not under the illusion that I will never need GB surgery. Nor am I

> under the illusion that the shared experiences offered on this list,

> or the information offered in the book, is perfect or without

> risk.

>

> But one thing I know for sure is this: What you have presented here

> in your tirade against Hulda and the liver/GB flush is simply a

> case of the pot calling the kettle black. You scream " Nothing that

> woman says has been documented by medical science! " And when I try to

> find documentation for the frightening claims you and your medical

> colleagues are making about the flush, I can't find any. And when I

> ask you for the documentation for the claims, you can't provide any.

>

> How do I know that you are not just another orthodox medical lackey

> driven by your hatred of alternative medicine because of all of the

> money you and your colleagues lose when people are successful at

> healing themselves naturally? Your colleagues are sure making a lot

> of dough doing lap-cholys at $25,000 a pop. On the other hand, no one

> is making much money off the sale of epsom salts, olive oil and

> grapefruit. My common sense tells me to follow the money when trying

> to ascertain who is working to protect their own interests, and who is

> working to help people help themselves.

>

> I ask you again: who are you and why are you here?

>

A million thanks, Steve. Yes, the cut, burn, and poison crowd hates to

give up those big bucks they make by trashing people's bodies. What is

their death toll running per year---180,000 or so? As I read Mr.

Troll's message my mind kept saying " Bull Sh*t! He probably knows full

well that flushed gallstones are nothing but cholesterol so he's trying

to scare people into submitting to his knife by confusing the issue with

details about calcified stones. You'd think out-of-work bloodletters

would spend their time trying to re-establish their discredited

specialty as " helpful " (because it lets excess iron out of the system)

that he wouldn't have time to go after people who want to drink a bit of

olive oil and permanently stop that agonizing pain in their gallbladder.

You've done a great service by putting trollster in his place. Thanks

again...

Rex Harrill

(who gags each time the drug detail men (a/k/a " M.D.s " ) try to run that

old conundrum about " congealed olive oil " past him)

[Guest guest]

Steve is my hero!

Sometimes experts who have seen the exhibit in question make an educated

guess. Like when the natives to America were called "Indians".

1/ They had a dark skin. 2/ Indians were also expected

to be found in this relative location. Therefore, that must be what

they are -- Indians! An educated guess.

Also, the doc doesn't realize that the conspiracy is not conscious.

No doctor joins a conspiracy because its a conspiracy. But by being

closed minded know it alls, they can fall into it by default.

Though the doc did help me discover that the sinking polyhedral shapes

were stones on a successful first flush. No balls here.

Pat

A million thanks, Steve. Yes, the cut,

burn, and poison crowd hates to

give up those big bucks they make by trashing people's bodies.

What is

their death toll running per year---180,000 or so? As I read

Mr.

Troll's message my mind kept saying "Bull Sh*t! He probably

knows full

well that flushed gallstones are nothing but cholesterol so he's

trying

to scare people into submitting to his knife by confusing the issue

with

details about calcified stones. You'd think out-of-work bloodletters

would spend their time trying to re-establish their discredited

specialty as "helpful" (because it lets excess iron out of the

system)

that he wouldn't have time to go after people who want to drink

a bit of

olive oil and permanently stop that agonizing pain in their gallbladder.

You've done a great service by putting trollster in his place.

Thanks

again...

Rex Harrill

(who gags each time the drug detail men (a/k/a "M.D.s") try to

run that

old conundrum about "congealed olive oil" past him)

Learn more from our experience, more then 200 liver flush stories:

http:///messages/gallstones-testimonials

Liver Cleanse Recipe: http://www.CureZone.com/cleanse/liver/

Web Sites for more information:

http://CureZone.com/gallstones/

http://www.liverdoctor.com/

http://www.sensiblehealth.com/

List Unsubscribe: gallstones-unsubscribe

Post message: gallstones

Group page: gallstones

Group Archives: http:///messages/gallstones

You are receiving this email because you elected to subscribe to

the Gallstones group on 's groups. By joining the list you agree to

hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself! Have a nice day !

[Guest guest]

Dear Steve,

I have been following this with interest and couldn't agree

with you more. How could this association possibly have figures for this ,

when they do not acknowlede that flushes exist!!! That is certainly the

state of play in the UK, doctors pass you onto a surgeon, who takes out your

gallbladder, end of story or not in my case and I'm sure this is the same

for lots of other people. They will have figures for how many people have to

come back after gb surgery however, which I'm sure would make interesting

reading.

We are as Agnes says always interested in new information, this is why we

are here after all, but unsubstantiated horror stories are really not

helpful and I have never come across anyone on this list who had this kind

of a reaction to a flush.

Jane.

-----Original Message-----

From: Steve Barwick [mailto:barwick@...]

Sent: 26 August 2001 21:43

gallstones

Subject: Re: Re: Scared after attack - doc wants to remove GB

You wrote, " If you are interested in the exact data and specifications

regarding morbidity and mortalitty regarding bursting of the scarred

gallbladders, The American Gastroenterological Association, should provide

you with the numbers. "

Dear Doctor,

In other words, you personally don't know, and you are passing the buck.

You are " winging it. " You don't have any actual experience with the flush,

and you don't have a clue if anyone has ever been hurt by it, or not. You

are just trying to scare people. You know, and I know, that the American

Gastroenterological Association isn't going to have any data on people who

have done the flush -- with scarred gallbladders, or with perfectly fine

gallbladders -- because they do not acknowledge the flush, and they do not

keep data on that which they do not acknowledge. Answer this please: who

are you, and why are you here?

Regards,

Steve B.

ribok2000@... wrote:

> You wrote, " Doing the flush even with a healthy gallbladder there

is always a chance that one of the stones will astray to the pancreas

and cause some serious damage. With a scarred gallbladder and a

> sudden pressure on it, may that be a flush or something else, you

risk the bursting of the gallbladder which can be fatal. Regards. "

>

> Hi,

>

> What is your personal experience with the flush? How many have you

done, or witnessed being done? What were the results, in terms of

how many resulted in death or injury to the patient, and how many were

> successful? What is your specific evidence and documentation of

what you are saying, and where can we see it to verify it for

ourselves? Why are you on a gallstone flush list, if you are

apparently so

> opposed to it? What is your purpose of being here? Just curious...

>

> Regards,

> Steve B.

>

>

>

Dear Steve,

If you are interested in the exact data and specifications regarding

morbidity and mortalitty regarding bursting of the scarred

gallbladders, The American Gastroenterological Association, should

provide you with the numbers.

Regards.

Learn more from our experience, more then 200 liver flush stories:

http:///messages/gallstones-testimonials

Liver Cleanse Recipe: http://www.CureZone.com/cleanse/liver/

Web Sites for more information:

http://CureZone.com/gallstones/

http://www.liverdoctor.com/

http://www.sensiblehealth.com/

List Unsubscribe: gallstones-unsubscribe

Post message: gallstones

Group page: gallstones

Group Archives: http:///messages/gallstones

You are receiving this email because you elected to subscribe to the

Gallstones group on 's groups. By joining the list you agree to hold

yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself! Have a nice day !

[Guest guest]

Dear Autopsy Pathologist,

Here is one thing that I can personally

attest to. When I had my gb removed 12 years ago, they gave me my gallstones

in a bag, luckily for me I kept them by accident ( as obviously I had no

idea at the time that my stones would return, because I was told that once

my gb was removed all my problems would be over , as gallstones are only

made in the gallbladder by sluggish bile LOL) and so I can look at the

gallstones I make now and the gallstones I made then and surprise they are

identical !

Yes , the liver does make stones. Do you know that a disfunctional and fatty

liver can cause all sorts of rashes, allergies and inability to digest lots

of foods- No, that does not surprise me either. I have had scans, surgery,

gastroscopes and every other yucky proceedure that medical science can come

up with, none of which solved the root cause of my problems at all. So,

please do not come onto this group talking to us as though we are gullible

idiots, because we are not. I might have been a gullible idiot 12 years ago

when I had my gb removed, but not any more.

Jane.

-----Original Message-----

From: Steve Barwick [mailto:barwick@...]

Sent: 27 August 2001 00:18

gallstones

Subject: Re: Re: Scared after attack - doc wants to remove GB

Dear Autopsy Pathologist,

I have heard all of this before. I am relatively new to this list, and

have already been bombarded with this negative info on the GB flush from the

medical doctors I've spoken with. The problem is, I can't get any of you

guys (orthodox medical doctors) to document anything you are saying. You

use all of the big $20 words to impress me with your knowledge, but provide

no documentation. My GP said the same things you are saying, but when

questioned thoroughly he has never seen anyone who has done a flush, much

less anyone who has been harmed by a flush. Therefore, he is merely

parroting the scare tactics he has been taught in med school, which he has

never thought to document for himself.

My surgeons (I've been to two now) both say the same things you are

saying. But upon repeated questioning, they too have never met anyone who

has done a flush, much less anyone who has ever been harmed by flushing.

So, my question is, WHERE IS ALL OF THIS INFORMATION COMING FROM ABOUT

THESE ALLEGED DANGERS OF THE GB FLUSH? No one on your side of the aisle

seems to know where to find the documentation. They just " know " that the

flush is dangerous. Yet they've never personally seen it cause harm to

anyone, nor can they provide any documentation for me to look at with my own

eyes. This is medicine? This is science? You wonder why rational people

begin to listen to someone like Hulda , when all you have to offer are

undocumented scare tactics, and painful and risky surgeries at $25,000 a

pop? Geesh!

When I joined this list three weeks ago I was in a total panic. I had

experienced five painful GB attacks inside of two weeks, and had been to my

GP, the ultrasound clinic, and finally to two different surgeons, and they

all attempted to scare the hell out of me, and told me there was no option

but immediate surgery to stop the pain. But I had been told 20 years ago by

medical doctors that my " diseased spleen " needed to be surgically removed

immediately or it was going to necrotize in my body (they told me it was

" dying " ), that it would cause a massive infection, and that I'd die. And

here I am 20 years later, still alive and kicking, and with my spleen still

intact and working just fine, thank you. Fifteen years ago when I went to

the hospital for pressure buildup inside of my ears after an airline flight,

I was told by medical doctors that I needed to have holes drilled through my

ear drums, and that I'd have to have tubes inserted into those holes, and

that I'd have to go around for the rest of my life with these tubes sticking

out of my ears. If I didn't have this operation, they told me, my eardrums

would " rupture " and I'd be deaf for life. Yet here I am fifteen years later

with with no surgery, and my eardrums -- and my hearing -- completely

intact.

So, perhaps if you can let down your shield of self-righteousness for just

a moment, you can understand why I tend to greet the intonations of orthodox

medical doctors with a healthy dose of skepticism, and why I insist that

they document their claims to me. The simple bottom line from my personal

experience over a period of decades is that doctors don't always know

everything.

So, rather than allow myself to be stampeded into an immediate gallbladder

surgery I began looking for more information. Through the book, and

the people on this list who have been kind enough to share their

experiences, I learned that I could alleviate or even stop the GB attacks

through increased water intake and specific dietary change. My doctors and

the surgeons scoffed. " That won't work. You'll be back in a week, crying

to us from the emergency room " they said. But it has been nearly three

weeks, I've not had another attack since making the dietary changes I

learned about from the book and from the shared personal experiences

of people on this list. And the side benefits have been marvelous: As of

today, I have now lost 10 pounds, my blood pressure (previously always high)

is down a full 10 points (both numbers), and I have more energy than I've

had in years.

I am not under the illusion that my gallbladder problems are over. I am

not under the illusion that I will never need GB surgery. Nor am I under

the illusion that the shared experiences offered on this list, or the

information offered in the book, is perfect or without risk.

But one thing I know for sure is this: What you have presented here in

your tirade against Hulda and the liver/GB flush is simply a case of

the pot calling the kettle black. You scream " Nothing that woman says has

been documented by medical science! " And when I try to find documentation

for the frightening claims you and your medical colleagues are making about

the flush, I can't find any. And when I ask you for the documentation for

the claims, you can't provide any.

How do I know that you are not just another orthodox medical lackey driven

by your hatred of alternative medicine because of all of the money you and

your colleagues lose when people are successful at healing themselves

naturally? Your colleagues are sure making a lot of dough doing lap-cholys

at $25,000 a pop. On the other hand, no one is making much money off the

sale of epsom salts, olive oil and grapefruit. My common sense tells me to

follow the money when trying to ascertain who is working to protect their

own interests, and who is working to help people help themselves.

I ask you again: who are you and why are you here?

Regards,

Steve B.

Gallstone Flush

People who have gallstones, or think they have gallstones, are

invited to " flush " them out by swallowing a concoction of 1/2 cup of

olive oil, a big

grapefruit, 4 tablespoons of Epsom salts, and three cups of water.

It was a nice idea, and interesting things will appear in the toilet

bowl soon after. But I'm afraid that they're not your gallstones.

Here's why:

Real gallstones are faceted polyhedra, like the ones in the

picture on the links below, or else shaped like mulberries. What

you'll get from

the recipe are spheres. One of my correspondents describes a

friend who saves the spheres and displayed them to his friends.

Real gallstones hurt bad when they pass through the cystic and

common bile ducts.

Real gallstones sink in water. (As an autopsy pathologist, I'm

very familiar with this.) The " gallstones " you'll produce from this

recipe will

float, as the " alternative thinkers " themselves point out. (They

claim that real gallstones float, too. Liars.)

If you know a little basic chemistry, you'll realize what is

happening. The Epsom salts are magnesium sulfate, and the grapefruit

contains some

complex carbohydrates. When these slosh around in the stomach and

small intestine, they'll form a tough film which will encase drops of

olive oil.

This will produce some yellowish balls which will float in the

toilet.

Hulda Regehr , the author of " The Cure for all Cancers " and " The

Cure For HIV/AIDS " promotes this. Since she claims to have both a

doctorate in naturopathy and a Ph.D. in something (the latter

implying having done substantial original lab research), one would

think she would

have made an experiment with a real gallstone and discovered that it

sinks. There's a nice photo which she took from my friend,

pathologist Ed

Klatt. She calls them " such small stones " though they're obviously 7-

10 mm across. She thinks the stones she displayed formed in the liver

and

" rolled " into the gallbladder, which is silly. She says

gallstones " can be of any color " which is a hoot. She also claims

that the major cause of

gallstones is wearing shoes.

If you want to believe these people, that is your business. If you

try the purge, please chew your grapefruit up thoroughly. Otherwise,

you're asking

for a gastic bezoar and a trip to the endoscopist to remove the

obstruction.

taken from http://www.pathguy.com/altermed.htm

Learn more from our experience, more then 200 liver flush stories:

http:///messages/gallstones-testimonials

Liver Cleanse Recipe: http://www.CureZone.com/cleanse/liver/

Web Sites for more information:

http://CureZone.com/gallstones/

http://www.liverdoctor.com/

http://www.sensiblehealth.com/

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<gallstones >

From: " Jane Moran " <Jane.Moran@...>

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 15:25:35 +0100

Reply-gallstones

Subject: RE: Re: Scared after attack - doc wants to remove GB

Dear Autopsy Pathologist,

Here is one thing that I can personally

attest to. When I had my gb removed 12 years ago, they gave me my gallstones

in a bag, luckily for me I kept them by accident ( as obviously I had no

idea at the time that my stones would return, because I was told that once

my gb was removed all my problems would be over , as gallstones are only

made in the gallbladder by sluggish bile LOL) and so I can look at the

gallstones I make now and the gallstones I made then and surprise they are

identical !

Yes , the liver does make stones. Do you know that a disfunctional and fatty

liver can cause all sorts of rashes, allergies and inability to digest lots

of foods- No, that does not surprise me either. I have had scans, surgery,

gastroscopes and every other yucky proceedure that medical science can come

up with, none of which solved the root cause of my problems at all. So,

please do not come onto this group talking to us as though we are gullible

idiots, because we are not. I might have been a gullible idiot 12 years ago

when I had my gb removed, but not any more.

Jane.