Re: I was Hoovered!

[Guest guest]

daphne, i think it is ok to try everyonce in awhile to see if there is any

possibility of growth. the difference is that you now know a hoover when you

see one and know how to walk away from that kind of behavior. i was counseled

by nice nuns and monks at my church and in addition to them saying, " stay away

and pray " they also said to everyonce in awhile extend out a loving hand and if

you get thorns, pull it back and try again another time. tiki

I was Hoovered!

Ok let's try this again. Last time I hit " post " instead of " send " and

lost the whole thing. Hello ModOasis! I first came here during the

holidays and this group has been a fantastic source of support and

insight. Despite the insight gained I can't believe I allowed mySelf

to be hoovered and I feel like an idiot. Here's what happened. Over

the holidays I resumed contact with my younger brother Tim. I made the

mistake of sharing some of what I've learned both in therapy and on

this list. For background : older brother was the pseudo spouse to

nada and " all good " child, I was the " no good " kid, and younger bro

has always acted like the " victim " . We siblings have been estranged

for 20 years. This was his first response:

(he refers to nada by her first name I don't know why.)

>>Daph,

Merry Christmas! :-)

I spent some time and checked out BPDCentral.com, etc. I'm glad to see

you use words like " denial, and/or rationalization. "

It seems that we have come to some similar conclusions, maybe via

different paths. I never got deeply into Ruth's psyche. I just knew

she was pretty screwed up and there was very little I could do about

it. (This is one of the reasons I escaped to PA & OR.)<< snip

-------------------------------------------------------------

Ok so we've been exchanging emails. I believe he might be BPD himself.

He has all the traits and abandoned his small children who want

nothing to do with him now that they're teens. I have a warm

relationship with them, having helped support them. (Their mom has

Lupus and hasn't had it easy -- bro almost went to jail for dead beat

fada.)

Then last night it started. He asked me an inappropriate baiting

question which I declined to answer. And *BAM* out of nowhere I get

the email below:

brother Tim wrote:

>>You say that we have " different opinions " and that we should

" respect each others differences... " This is hog wash, a distortion

and a perversion of the truth! It seems that you still have extreme

" opinions " and philosophies. With you it's like a religious

conviction! You are ten thousand times worse than I ever was as a holy

roller - In the other direction!

My analysis: You have augmented your pre-existing mentality with this

new BPD psychobabble stuff. If you think you have fleas, you should

see a veterinarian.<< snip

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Moral of the story? Any reconciliation with the FOO is not possible. I

didn't react/respond to him -- just asked him not to email me anymore.

However, I'm saddened & confused. And I feel sick. I don't even know

what he's talking about? Just bcs we have differing political views

and I won't " agree " with him I'm all " bad " ? He sounds just like nada.

And what's with the sarcastic veterinarian comment? Is this a dig bcs

I used to work with animals? How could I allow mySelf to get sucked

in? I've had 20 years experience keeping away from them.

Thanks for reading all this. Any comments from the group are mightily

appreciated.

~daphne {from the dark side of my mind}

p.s. What an outstanding example of BPD fallout/heartbreak. Three kids

who are estranged. The one who had kids continues the BP cycle with

his own children. Luckily they haven't lived with him and their mom

(my sis in law) is a good mother to them. She got them into the Milton

Hershey School in PA - a private boarding school for disadvantaged

children. The school makes sure they have limited contact with their

father...and required counseling. I hope the cycle can stop with them.

UGG.

Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

" Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered via

1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go to:

http://www.BPDCentral.com

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[Guest guest]

> > -------------------------------------------------------------

>

> However, I'm saddened & confused. And I feel sick. I don't even know

> what he's talking about? Just bcs we have differing political views

> and I won't " agree " with him I'm all " bad " ? He sounds just like

nada.

> And what's with the sarcastic veterinarian comment? Is this a dig

bcs

> I used to work with animals? How could I allow mySelf to get sucked

> in? I've had 20 years experience keeping away from them.

>

> Thanks for reading all this. Any comments from the group are

mightily

> appreciated.

>

> ~daphne {from the dark side of my mind}

>

>>>>

IMO, it sounds like he tried to hoover you, but was unsuccessful. You

seem to have established boundaries with him by not responding to a

triggering question. He just upped the suction on that ole vacuum

cleaner in another attempt, but was again unsuccessful. It is

unfortuate that he didn't understand what you were trying to

communicate, but you were able to deliver your message, and not buy

into his attempt at control.

Sylvia

[Guest guest]

> daphne, i think it is ok to try everyonce in awhile to see if there

is any possibility of growth. the difference is that you now know a

hoover when you see one and know how to walk away from that kind of

behavior. i was counseled by nice nuns and monks at my church and in

addition to them saying, " stay away and pray " they also said to

everyonce in awhile extend out a loving hand and if you get thorns,

pull it back and try again another time. tiki

Thanks tiki. Based on experience I think it's too painful to try and

see if growth is possible. With older bro growth has been possible, to

my amazement. But younger bro is BP I believe and I think he's too

dangerous. His pattern is to wait about a year, then establish contact

with a few sensible emails, then start with the triggering questions.

If things don't go his way he sends the most bizarre irrational email

usually at the same time of night between 2:30 and 3:30 a.m. (what the

hell is he doing up, anyway?)

It's hard to stay away bcs we're only 11 months apart and we shared a

room until we were about 5/6 years old. I have good memories of a

little brother when we were very small. I think it's best if I just

forget about him, but it ain't easy. ~d.

[Guest guest]

> IMO, it sounds like he tried to hoover you, but was unsuccessful. You

> seem to have established boundaries with him by not responding to a

> triggering question. He just upped the suction on that ole vacuum

> cleaner in another attempt, but was again unsuccessful. It is

> unfortuate that he didn't understand what you were trying to

> communicate, but you were able to deliver your message, and not buy

> into his attempt at control.

>

> Sylvia

Yes -- thanks Sylvia. It's important for me to remember that I've

gotten pretty good at dodging the attempted hoovers. It's also hard

for me to remember he has an MO. It the annual attempt at

reconciliation and it has failed for 20 consecutive years. The pattern

is the same::: he establishes " friendly " contact, I " fall " for it,

then manipulative attempts to control behavior which always end in

hostilities bcs I won't play the game. Unfortunately b4 I opt out,

things escalate. When things are escalating I feel like I'm being

hoovered. I know I shouldn't participate. I know I should never *ever*

respond to an attempt by him to contact me.

Sometimes I'm weak I guess. Esp. around the holidays. None of his old

friends want anything to do with him, I don't know if he has any

relationships, his wife left him, he lost his kids and a judge almost

locked him up for non support....when will I learn to write him off

just like every one else? ~daphne

[Guest guest]

> i think the hardest part is distinguishing which family members

have bp and which have fleas. i've tried yearly contact that has

failed too--recently i've contacted the family and got a response from

nada and sista. i didn't suspect my mom to have bp until this year

when looking on the site, and i keep thinking my sista might just have

fleas... don't know yet. i have tried, like you not to make the

contact during the holidays, emotionally too much. both my sister and

mom are interested in learning the things i've learned about bp--mom

has said that she is going to get swoe at the library and re-read it

again. last year i asked their assistance in trying to help me with

one of their distortion campaigns--first by explaining it and second

by rectifying it. i was called abusive for bringing it up and then

the insanity started. i have since read here, not to address

dillusion. i still don't know how to play by their rules. it's

always tuff, tiki

Tiki - Yeah about distinguishing.

Funny how we keep trying isn't it? Your mom was willing to go to the

library and get a book that's remarkable. My bro asked me {rather

demanded that I} go out and purchase UBM and *send it* to him bcs he's

on SSDI and has no $ and etc. Poor Baby. I thought about suggesting

the library to him (that's where I got my copy) but decided not to

respond -- not my job to take care of him. (In 1992 I was hoovered

into supporting him for a year.)

Tiki -- You don't have to learn how to play by their rules anymore!

REMEMBER? ~d.