RE: Boundaries

[Guest guest]

Ilene wrote:

Btw,

" Boundaries " is another good book about setting limits with abusive people.

Keep reading and posting when you feel like it!

Oh yeah! A small book written by a woman? Katharine something? I read

that book 5 or 6 years ago. Cool. Thanks for reminding me about it. I have

lent it to someone and I can’t remember who! I’d love to get a hold of it

again. It was a real eye-opener for me. it introduced me to the basics

concerning boundaries and it really helped a lot.

Colleen Burns

buddie@...

Re: New Member

Hi and welcome! I think our wonderful moderator Edith said it all

pretty much! Have you read SWOE or UTBM yet? they are great books. I

also got a lot of help from " Toxic Parents " and " Codependent No More " .

There is plenty to learn from lurking and posting on this list. The

validation is wonderful and heaven knows we need all we can get! My

nada threatened suicide a few times and when I finally got fed up enough

2 yrs ago, she really went berserk. My therapist told me not to read

her letters or write her and that was so hard. Randi and Edith and this

group helped me stay firm. One way that KOs here have found to deal

with those suricide threats is by saying very calmly, that they are

worried about nada and going to call the police to come and check on

her. That ususally puts the ball (and responsiblility!) back in her

court. We have been taught by nada that we are responsible for her and

everyone else's feelings. We aren't! that is probably hard to unlearn,

but it can be done. I've also learned that my expectations and hopes ,

when they aren't met, can lead to MY anger and resentment. So now I'm

changing my expectations about nada. A BP is mentally ill and I cannot

expect her to behave normally. ( that doesn't mean I want a relationship

with her, because I don't. My nada is 89 and I'm an only child. Right

now I'm writing her occasionally because I'm 2100 miles away and need

some way to monitor her health. My cousins had agreed to help me when I

cut off contact, but they didn't, so I'm back in a semi-relationship.)

Remember, you don't have to take abusive behavior from anyone! Btw,

" Boundaries " is another good book about setting limits with abusive people.

Keep reading and posting when you feel like it!

Ilene

Edith wrote:

> randerdk wrote:

>

> > Hey List,

> >

> > Well, mostly I guess I will sit back and listen for a while. My mom

> > has borderline personality disorder, and right now, well the games

> > are overwhelming. I am hurt and angry as living hell.

>

> The anger is good but the emotional hurt can be very painful.

>

> > I havent heard

> > from her since we had a big fight on the phone where I held her

> > responsible for a whole bunch of lies she had told me.

>

> Hmmm, OK. I'll run some stuff by you...

>

> BPs come in different flavors. Some are high-functioning, some are

> low-functioning. They're all spread out along a continuum between the

> two extremes. And, they have an assortment of any five or more of the 9

> diagnostic DSM criteria. BPs are mentally ill. They don't use real-world

> logic. And, because we KOs (Kids Of BPs) have no background in " normal " ,

> we have nothing normal to compare their behavior with. KOs are in an

> unchosen relationship with their nada/fada (BP mother or BP father). In

> other words, we didn't ask for a parent with a mental disorder but

> that's what we got.

>

> To continue. BPs use rationalization (ie, they tell lies), projection

> (they blame others), denial, and splitting as (unconscious) ego defense

> mechanisms. The ego defenses are automatically triggered whenever a BP

> is confronted. BPs have a very tiny and/or fragmented ego. And, when

> they're on the defensive (to protect their ego) the defense mechanisms

> happen automatically -- and they don't operate based on real-world

> logic. BPs can also be manipulative, and they lack empathy, etc etc. But

> the defense mechanisms " just happen " . Ofttimes the BP will say later

> that they don't remember what happened when chaos happened. This can be

> true because some of them dissociate (for example, while raging).

>

> The lies are nada's (ego protective) rationalizations. And, when

> confronted, that must have brought out her denial, projection, and/or

> splitting (into all good or all bad). This isn't the easiest stuff in

> the world to learn about. I hope you have a copy of SWOE.

>

> > Anyways, it is all quite hurtful these days,

>

> Yes, but she's not necessarily using real-world logic and she may not

> mean what she says. Plus, you've not yet learned to not take her stuff

> personally. This is hard for KOs to understand because the KO's pain is

> real and they believe their BP parent is being honest and truthful.

>

> > and I just dont know

> > what to do no more.

>

> But you ended up here and that's good.

>

> > I know if I cut contact with her then the suicide

> > threats etc, etc will go totally bananas.

>

> Yes, and that's an ace card that she holds. She planted that 'hook' in

> you early in your life and she knows that she can control your behavior

> (ie, she knows that you'll feel FOG (Fear, Obligation, and/or Guilt))

> when she yanks on that hook. Nadas (BP mothers) lack empathy so they

> don't know how bad it hurts their KO when they do stuff like that. They

> can read us (our reactions) like a book so the idea is to learn to not

> react -- like it says in the post on Control Freaks that I posted

> earlier. If the KO doesn't show a reaction, then it takes the air out of

> their nada's balloon. Plus there's lots other stuff we can share with

> you.

>

> > So far I have satisfied

> > myself with the very far physical distance there is between us, and

> > just handled her for visits and phone calls. But by now I am frankly

> > also so angry that I am about to the place where I dont care about

> > her suicide threats and bad health any more. She has done it to

> > herself with the last 20 years of heavy drinking.

>

> BPs are often substance abusers. But, actually, everyone is responsible

> for their own behavior -- even nadas. When they do FOG stuff its really

> hard on a KO. We can offer validation and support here. You'll learn

> about boundaries (ie, limits). And you'll learn that it gets gets worse

> before it gets better if/when you start setting limits. You're at the

> point now where you're trying to decide what to do about setting limits.

>

> > Ahh well.. I will sit back and listen for a while. Maybe some other

> > folks here on the list have found ways of dealing that I have yet to

> > see.

>

> A-OK Malene. I'm glad you finally found us. Fix yourself a cup of hot

> chocolate and cozy up in one of our comfy chairs and post when ever you

> want. The best way to get answers around here is to ask questions but

> sometimes its hard to figure out what questions to ask.

>

> I've pasted our vocabulary list at the end of this post. See below.

>

> - Edith

> Moderator/Facilitator/Gal Friday: WelcomeToOz Family of NonBP Lists

>

> <<

> ++ WelcomeToOz Guidelines : Section 8 / Abbreviations ++

>

> ABBREVIATIONS: The WTO lists have abbreviations and their own

> vernacular. Words commonly used include:

>

> BP: person in your life who has BPD or whom YOU THINK has BPD traits.

> BPD: Borderline Personality Disorder.

> BPSO: BP Significant Other. XBPSO=Ex BPSO (this has many variations).

> DBT: Dialectic Behavioral Therapy, a cognitive-behavioral therapy

> that has been successful in the treatment of BPD. Also see 'Therapies'

> at www.BPDCentral.com website.

> DEAR: Communication technique used to set limits and ask for things.

> See at www.BPDCentral.com (press 'Library').

> Defense Mechanisms: projection, denial, splitting, and rationalization.

> Distortion campaign: a deliberate attempt by someone to smear your

> name because they have split you as all bad. They feel justified and

> may tell lies or truly believe their distortions. May or may not

> involve the law.

> DSM-IV: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, edition 4, published by the

> American Psychiatric Association. Used for diagnostic and insurance

> purposes.

> Fada: Used by some of the NonBP adult children of BPDs on the Oasis

> lists to refer to their BP father who was not-a-father in the true

> sense of the word.

> Fleas: Unhealthy behavioral reactions learned while living with a BP.

> FOG: Fear, Obligation and Guilt, which make you susceptible to

> emotional blackmail.

> FOO: Family Of Origin (includes one's original mother, father, and

> other children).

> HF: High functioning.

> Hoovered: after the vacuum cleaner, to be sucked back into the

> relationship for another ride on the BPD rollercoaster.

> Intermittent reinforcement: when good outcomes happen on an

> unpredictable schedule, thereby reinforcing (ie, rewarding) behavior.

> Examples: when the BP sometimes acts 'normal', when you sometimes

> don't observe limits (this is rewarding to the BP).

> KO: Kid Of [a BP].

> L & L: The booklet titled " Love and Loathing " .

> Lasagna therapy: A type of therapy whereby lasagna is dumped over the

> head of a BP who constantly criticizes the way one eats--so much so

> one won't eat with the family anymore. Salad dumping in the lap is an

> adjunct part of this therapy. Currently under double-blind test trials

> at several prestigious universities. <wink>

> LF: Low functioning.

> Light Bulb Effect: the realization that you're not crazy and BPD may

> explain the other person's behavior.

> LOL: Laughing Out Loud.

> Me2: " Me too " . Like, that happened to me, too.

> Mirroring: Not absorbing the BP's projections and reflecting them back

> to the BP.

> Nada: Used by some of the NonBP adult offspring of BPDs on the 'Oasis'

> lists to refer to their BP mother who was not-a-mother in the true

> sense of the word.

> NPD: Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

> NonBP: Person who is affected by someone else's BPD -- eg, you and

> your family.

> OCD: Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.

> Oz: the " Twilight Zone " feeling of not knowing what is real because of

> the BP's distortions.

> PAS: Parental Alienation Syndrome: When a parent deliberately and

> repeatedly makes the other parent the " bad guy " and the child believes

> the accusations (such as " Daddy doesn't love you. " ) A form of child

> abuse.

> Projection: When a person denies certain feelings by attributing them

> to someone else.

> PUVAS and DEAR: Communication techniques you can download at the

> www.BPDCentral.com library. DEAR is about setting personal limits and

> PUVAS is about ONE of the communication techniques you can use to

> communicate with BPs. Other techniques in SWOE are defusing and

> walking away.

> Rationalization: Good-sounding reasons but not necessarily truthful.

> ROFL: Rolling on the floor laughing.

> SKids: Step kids.

> SO: Significant Other.

> Splitting: Black and white thinking, practiced by both Nons and BPs.

> Sponging: Absorbing the BP's projections and bad feelings. (See

> " mirroring " )

> STB-ex: Soon-to-be ex [husband, wife, or SO]

> SWOE: The book " Stop Walking on Eggshells. "

> SWOEW: The workbook to SWOE.

> Trigger: not a horse, but something that takes a person back to an

> earlier trauma. They respond to the current situation and also relive

> the past one. For example, a BP's criticism about your clothes

> triggers you because your father did the same thing.

> UBM: Book titled " Understanding The Borderline Mother " .

>

> >>

>

>

>