Enhancing health with time on your side

[Guest guest]

It'd seem to me that we'd need to be giving our bones extra help from fall

through spring - not one month out of the year...

[Guest guest]

-------------- Original message ----------------------

From: " Pearl " <jp2@...>

>

> >

> > Please explain astrology's 'insights into the nature of time'. I

> simply do not presuppose this.

>

> Hi,

>

> Thanks for your interest. Please read the column; it explains this

> perspective. Astrology is much more than sun sign trivia which is like

> the diet coke of the astrology world.

>

> http://www.starpearls.com/remedies_food_capricorn.html

>

> cheers,

> J

What is this, diet pepsi?

" The Sun is our essential life force. Without sunlight there would be no life.

So to enhance life, we align ourselves with the Sun. "

Gee, I'm a believer now.

[Guest guest]

Sorry about the astrology spam, folks. The system doesn't let me

catch everything.

-

[Guest guest]

-------------- Original message ----------------------

From: Idol <Idol@...>

> Sorry about the astrology spam, folks. The system doesn't let me

> catch everything.

>

>

>

> -

>

Actually, I'd like to try some astrology spam, now that you mention it.

[Guest guest]

,

>Sorry about the astrology spam, folks. The system doesn't let me

>catch everything.

>

has contributed good stuff before in years past. I found the

article rather stimulating and definitely on topic (believe it or not).

I mean, it is kind of similar to people talking about religious fasting,

which has its place here I think. I made some improvements this last

week to my life, so I found it encouraging and timely. Thanks .

Deanna, currently mastering leptin the Paleo way

[Guest guest]

-------------- Original message ----------------------

From: Deanna <hl@...>

> ,

>

> >Sorry about the astrology spam, folks. The system doesn't let me

> >catch everything.

> >

> has contributed good stuff before in years past. I found the

> article rather stimulating and definitely on topic (believe it or not).

> I mean, it is kind of similar to people talking about religious fasting,

> which has its place here I think. I made some improvements this last

> week to my life, so I found it encouraging and timely. Thanks .

>

>

> Deanna, currently mastering leptin the Paleo way

>

I find the preponderance of posts with religious and pseudo-religious messages

of one sort or another to be extremely annoying, personally. I think that, as

far as astrology goes, the relevance would be proportional to its inclusion as a

kind of amusing corollary to what we believe to be a scientific basis for sound

nutrition. However his post pretended to actually offer justification for good

nutrition - as such, I wouldn't blame anyone attempting to repudiate the

seriousness of this list their good chuckle over it, as well as all of the oft

repeated sanctimonious references to Jesus.

Gene

All hail Satan!

[Guest guest]

On 1/4/06, implode7@... <implode7@...> wrote:

> > Thanks for your interest. Please read the column; it explains this

> > perspective. Astrology is much more than sun sign trivia which is like

> > the diet coke of the astrology world.

<snip>

> What is this, diet pepsi?

>

> " The Sun is our essential life force. Without sunlight there would be no life.

So to enhance life, we align ourselves with the Sun. "

>

> Gee, I'm a believer now.

Sheesh, calm down. In reading the content of the article, what's

really all that objectionable? If you don't want to listen to

astrological talk, skip those paragraphs; the nutritional advice seems

otherwise pretty sound. Honestly the argument seems pretty sound in

general, whether you believe its foundation to be literal truth or

not-- why wouldn't late winter be a time for resting and rebuilding a

strong skeletal base? It's not like he's telling you to run naked in

moonlight or anything.

We're here talking about " native nutrition, " something which is by

definition grounded in those types of mythologies whether you like it

or not. Why does a truth like " eating CLO and bone broth is good "

have only to be couched in technobabble? Did Price balk at the

obvious truths gleaned from the natives because they expressed it in

their own mythological terms? If he had, we might not even be aware

of them now, since they'd have been dismissed by other brutal

" skeptics. "

[Guest guest]

Deanna-

> has contributed good stuff before in years past.

OK. I don't remember him posting before, but that doesn't mean anything.

>I found the

>article rather stimulating and definitely on topic (believe it or not).

>I mean, it is kind of similar to people talking about religious fasting,

>which has its place here I think. I made some improvements this last

>week to my life, so I found it encouraging and timely. Thanks .

If you liked it, fine, but astrology is no more on topic here than

astral projection, and touting the services of an astrologer is

marketing, which is strictly verboten.

-

[Guest guest]

Gene-

>Actually, I'd like to try some astrology spam, now that you mention it.

Would that be spam made from astrologers? I'd be a little worried

about Creutzfeldt-Jakob, myself.

-

[Guest guest]

> If you liked it, fine, but astrology is no more on topic here than

> astral projection, and touting the services of an astrologer is

> marketing, which is strictly verboten.

,

When he mentioned that he was a professional astrologer and provided a

link I was skeptical but the link opened onto an article, presumably

written by Jonothan, on what I would describe as suggestions

re: aligning oneself with nature, which imo is perfectly on topic, if

not to everyone's taste. It did not include a price list for services.

People on these lists have all variety of interests and I see little

difference if Masterjohn can provide a link to his articles on his

cholesterol site or Prentice providing links to her " Moon "

series of articles on another list with all their symbolism and

folkways allusions. Plenty of people share their specialities on these

lists and I for one, welcome it. I thought it was unfair that you

didn't recognize a longtime list-subscriber and called him a spammer

on a public forum when he was sharing his enthusiasm for Native Nutrition.

I've found my own astrologer's counsel to be indispensible--even

though I at first thought the idea ridiculous. If one can be made

aware of the subtle influences in one's life and work with them, the

flow can go much easier. Not saying astrology is by any means the

only way to achieve this but only that it can be useful if one is so

inclined.

B.

[Guest guest]

>Gene

>

>All hail Satan!

>

>

You flirt! you know how it drives me wild when you sign your name.

Praise be to Allah.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

-------------- Original message ----------------------

From: Deanna <hl@...>

>

> >Gene

> >

> >All hail Satan!

> >

> >

> You flirt! you know how it drives me wild when you sign your name.

> Praise be to Allah.

>

> Deanna

>

Actually, the original expression was 'Praise bees to Allah', but has undergone

some translation anomalies.

[Guest guest]

,

Again I would ask you to actually read the article before jumping to

that conclusion. I didn't hawk any services (except those of Dr

Ron's). I mentioned astrology as the basis for my perspective, which

by the way was the norm of humanity in many cultures around the globe.

India, China, the Mayans, Greeks, Babylonians, Egyptians, Arabs,

Europeans ... many civilizations had some system of understanding time

through the motion of the planets. In fact Hippocrates has said one

cannot practice medicine without astrology. But really i'm not here to

convince you like I said at the beginning if its not your cup of tea

that's fine. But I respectfully request the right to offer opinions

(not my services) just like everyone else, especially ones that other

people might find beneficial.

cheers,

>

> If you liked it, fine, but astrology is no more on topic here than

> astral projection, and touting the services of an astrologer is

> marketing, which is strictly verboten.

>

>

>

>

> -

>

[Guest guest]

How exactly is it bolstering the credibility of astrology by arguing that people

thousands of years ago, who didn't have much scientific insight into the

functioning of the universe, believed it?

-------------- Original message ----------------------

From: " Pearl " <jp2@...>

>

> ,

>

> Again I would ask you to actually read the article before jumping to

> that conclusion. I didn't hawk any services (except those of Dr

> Ron's). I mentioned astrology as the basis for my perspective, which

> by the way was the norm of humanity in many cultures around the globe.

> India, China, the Mayans, Greeks, Babylonians, Egyptians, Arabs,

> Europeans ... many civilizations had some system of understanding time

> through the motion of the planets. In fact Hippocrates has said one

> cannot practice medicine without astrology. But really i'm not here to

> convince you like I said at the beginning if its not your cup of tea

> that's fine. But I respectfully request the right to offer opinions

> (not my services) just like everyone else, especially ones that other

> people might find beneficial.

>

> cheers,

>

[Guest guest]

-

>Again I would ask you to actually read the article before jumping to

>that conclusion.

The issue is not whether I agree with or endorse astrology, though

obviously I don't. I disagree with and don't endorse many things

people say on this list, including such bon mots as Gluten Uber

Alles, but I don't support censorship.

What I don't allow is the use of this list for the promotion of

commercial products and services without my prior consent -- and to

say I don't grant consent lightly would be an extreme understatement.

> I didn't hawk any services

Your article concludes with this statement, which includes a link:

>>For a set of personal remedies just for you, get a life or update

>>reading. More information on the Services page.

For you to claim that the article and your link thereto is in no way

meant as marketing is inaccurate at best.

If you weren't a member of long standing, I would've banned you and

deleted the message immediately. As it is I'm still debating whether

to delete the message, but the main reason I haven't is that it's too late.

-

[Guest guest]

-

> People on these lists have all variety of interests and I see little

>difference if Masterjohn can provide a link to his articles on his

>cholesterol site

The difference is that isn't selling anything.

Again, the point isn't that astrology is a scam and a fraud and utter

bunk. And the link isn't excused because there's valid nutritional

information mixed in with the astrology crap. The point is that the

article is a marketing tool on a website meant to sell services. I'd

object similarly to someone advertising NN-compliant nutritional

consultations without prior permission.

>or Prentice providing links to her " Moon "

>series of articles on another list with all their symbolism and

>folkways allusions.

I guess I missed those, so I can't comment.

>Plenty of people share their specialities on these

>lists and I for one, welcome it. I thought it was unfair that you

>didn't recognize a longtime list-subscriber and called him a spammer

>on a public forum when he was sharing his enthusiasm for Native Nutrition.

I don't remember ever seeing him post. My apologies for that. But

spam is spam is spam, regardless of who posts it.

-

[Guest guest]

OK fine. Next time I will put the entire column in the post without

links or reference to services. If you can't get beyond your blinders

to see what I wrote was with beneficial intent which many people might

find interesting, then you are really not being fair. There is all

kinds of material on this list and to single out astrology as " crap "

is just as insulting to me as denigrating Jesus to somebody else.

J

[Guest guest]

Astrology is crap. Jesus as he exists in cute little email tag lines is

crap. There, I've said it. I feel better.

Hail Satan. (Satan is crap).

The True Bovinity.

Re: Enhancing health with time on your side

OK fine. Next time I will put the entire column in the post without

links or reference to services. If you can't get beyond your blinders to

see what I wrote was with beneficial intent which many people might find

interesting, then you are really not being fair. There is all kinds of

material on this list and to single out astrology as " crap " is just as

insulting to me as denigrating Jesus to somebody else.

J

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[Guest guest]

-

>If you can't get beyond your blinders

>to see what I wrote was with beneficial intent which many people might

>find interesting, then you are really not being fair.

Plenty of people have beneficial intent when trying to sell

things. That's beside the point.

> There is all

>kinds of material on this list and to single out astrology as " crap "

>is just as insulting to me as denigrating Jesus to somebody else.

Just so you don't feel unequally offended, I think Christ is crap too.

There. Feel better? All this is beside the point. I don't censor

people on this list based on my disagreement with their positions.

>OK fine. Next time I will put the entire column in the post without

>links or reference to services.

You're more than welcome to do so.

-

[Guest guest]

Actually, quite a few calendars are based on astrology. (After all,

what else was consistant enough to tell time by?) And diet used to

change with seasons before we started shipping food all over the

planet.

Mind you, I don't think any tribe had scientific insight into having

lots of Vitamin D in their diet. Back then, things were done by trial

and error. Its actually a pretty good concept. Nowadays, we dismiss

anything without " scientific insight " , including alternative

healthcare like TCM, Ayurveda (sp?), etc before considering that

someone might have actually figured it out by making hundreds of

mistakes over the years.

Don't be closed minded, it won't do good for you in the long run.

-Lana

On 1/5/06, implode7@... <implode7@...> wrote:

> How exactly is it bolstering the credibility of astrology by arguing that

> people thousands of years ago, who didn't have much scientific insight into

> the functioning of the universe, believed it?

[Guest guest]

-------------- Original message ----------------------

From: Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...>

> Actually, quite a few calendars are based on astrology. (After all,

> what else was consistant enough to tell time by?) And diet used to

> change with seasons before we started shipping food all over the

> planet.

>

And what does this have to do with whether astrology is a valid methodology for

extracting valuable information about the world?

> Mind you, I don't think any tribe had scientific insight into having

> lots of Vitamin D in their diet. Back then, things were done by trial

> and error. Its actually a pretty good concept. Nowadays, we dismiss

> anything without " scientific insight " , including alternative

> healthcare like TCM, Ayurveda (sp?), etc before considering that

> someone might have actually figured it out by making hundreds of

> mistakes over the years.

>

> Don't be closed minded, it won't do good for you in the long run.

I think that we also should think every once and awhile. Very annoying to be

told that you're 'close minded' when you attempt to do so. I think it's better

to apply a little analytical thinking than it is to believe every bit of crap

that comes along because you're afraid of being 'close minded'.

[Guest guest]

> And what does this have to do with whether astrology is a valid methodology

> for extracting valuable information about the world?

I think you're completely missing my point. We're not talking about

politics or anything worldwide here. We're talking about diet,

something that has typically changed with seasons (whether on a

calendar or in the sky).

> > Don't be closed minded, it won't do good for you in the long run.

>

> I think that we also should think every once and awhile. Very annoying to

> be told that you're 'close minded' when you attempt to do so. I think it's

> better to apply a little analytical thinking than it is to believe every bit

> of crap that comes along because you're afraid of being 'close minded'.

Honestly, I don't think you really read the first part of my post, you

just went off on how astrology is not credible for anything. You

completely missed that I was only saying that yes, it could very well

have something to do with diet due to its relation to seasons. You're

still stuck on your original point - astrology is good for nothing.

But my point is, if it were so useless, why are calendars based off of

it? And since when do seasons and other cyclical environmental

conditions not relate to diet?

You also completely missed my point that sometimes trial and error

does succeed and to throw away all that knowledge would be akin to

believing the diet dictocrats over native nutrition.

-Lana

[Guest guest]

Subject: Re: Enhancing health with time on your side

> And what does this have to do with whether astrology is a valid

> methodology for extracting valuable information about the world?

" I think you're completely missing my point. We're not talking about

politics or anything worldwide here. We're talking about diet,

something that has typically changed with seasons (whether on a calendar

or in the sky). "

I don't think I'm missing anything. I understand completely that diet

has changed with the seasons, or for whatever reason.

> > Don't be closed minded, it won't do good for you in the long run.

>

> I think that we also should think every once and awhile. Very

> annoying to be told that you're 'close minded' when you attempt to do

> so. I think it's better to apply a little analytical thinking than it

> is to believe every bit of crap that comes along because you're afraid

> of being 'close minded'.

" Honestly, I don't think you really read the first part of my post, you

just went off on how astrology is not credible for anything. You

completely missed that I was only saying that yes, it could very well

have something to do with diet due to its relation to seasons. You're

still stuck on your original point - astrology is good for nothing. "

I still don't understand how I missed anything.

" But my point is, if it were so useless, why are calendars based off of

it? "

Just don't follow this. Really. That calendars may have had something

originally to do with astrology (I just don't know), really says nothing

about whether astrology has anything to say as theory about anything.

All I've seen is crap.

" And since when do seasons and other cyclical environmental conditions

not relate to diet?

You also completely missed my point that sometimes trial and error does

succeed and to throw away all that knowledge would be akin to believing

the diet dictocrats over native nutrition. "

I haven't missed anything at all. However, you don't seem to understand

anything that I " ve said at all.

Trial and error succeeds sometimes. True. However, a false statement is

still a false statement, and a vacuous one is still a vacuous one. All I

saw in that astrology article was crap. That ancients sometimes

succeeded by trial and error doesn't excuse you from exercising your

brain a little. Every ancient practice and belief doesn't have value as

THEORY, especially as practiced by us, and accusing someone of not being

open minded because he doesn't accept crap, is absolutely ridiculous. If

there was NO science that backed up what believed about nutrition this

would simply be a list of crackpots. Sometimes it does sound that way.

[Guest guest]

I'm thinking just fine, thank you. I agree that there's a lot of

theory about star signs that is just hooey. However, when they are

basically used as a calendar, I find they tend to get close at the

least. Believe it or not, star signs are more accurate indicators of

seasons than our own months are! On our calendar, we have to specify

winter is between Dec 21 and Mar 20 - but you could just say Capricorn

(Starts Dec 22) - Pisces (Ends Mar 20). Star signs are just a bunch

of fancy names for a system of months as determined by the sky (and

the seasons) - whether or not you accept the link between the sky and

time, that's your perogative. Each to their own.

Personally, I don't see anything false about his nutritional

statements. Why? I used to always get ill almost every winter - last

year I was on disability the entirety of winter and some. This year,

my first winter of NT, I have found that doubling up on stock and CLO

helps to significantly correct the issue. Whether or not you find his

statements true, they work for me. But, once again, I am not

following them just because he said so, I am following them because I

genuinely feel better and I had come to that conclusion through trial

and error before the article was posted.

Quite frankly, I don't follow NT because of science. I used to eat

according to a variety of sciences, it didn't work. Finding the right

science by sifting through hundreds of thousands of papers on

nutrition would have taken me ages! Especially when you need solid

background to disprove some of the diet dictocrat's studies (like the

saturated fat study that actually included trans fats). Of course,

that doesn't stop me from looking at studies that specifically relate

to NT concepts now that I eat NT - but you have to realize NT concepts

are a needle in the haystack of crappy nutritional advice.

It is easier to prove NT with studies when you are looking to do so

than to find a new diet just by reading studies. It was the personal

experience of people on my other lists that led me here and to NT -

the studies helped, but the people who knew the diet worked because

they were on it (successful trials) helped a lot more. By sharing

their experiences, these people handed me a magnet - so I could pluck

that needle out without having to sift through the hay. This is

probably why standard nutritionists are so blind - they refuse to let

those that know from experience help them because they're too obsessed

with studies.

I follow NT because I have found through trial and error that it makes

me healthy. I trust that the natives did the same thing. If I wern't

thinking, I would just follow NT because someone said to. Instead, I

am actively observing my body's reaction to the foods I put in it and

making conclusions based off of those reactions. That is not " not

thinking " - it is thinking differently.

If you don't want to think differently, that's fine. Each to their own.

-Lana

> > > Don't be closed minded, it won't do good for you in the long run.

> >

> > I think that we also should think every once and awhile. Very

> > annoying to be told that you're 'close minded' when you attempt to do

> > so. I think it's better to apply a little analytical thinking than it

> > is to believe every bit of crap that comes along because you're afraid

>

> > of being 'close minded'.

>

> " Honestly, I don't think you really read the first part of my post, you

> just went off on how astrology is not credible for anything. You

> completely missed that I was only saying that yes, it could very well

> have something to do with diet due to its relation to seasons. You're

> still stuck on your original point - astrology is good for nothing. "

>

> I still don't understand how I missed anything.

>

>

> " But my point is, if it were so useless, why are calendars based off of

> it? "

>

> Just don't follow this. Really. That calendars may have had something

> originally to do with astrology (I just don't know), really says nothing

> about whether astrology has anything to say as theory about anything.

> All I've seen is crap.

>

> " And since when do seasons and other cyclical environmental conditions

> not relate to diet?

>

> You also completely missed my point that sometimes trial and error does

> succeed and to throw away all that knowledge would be akin to believing

> the diet dictocrats over native nutrition. "

>

> I haven't missed anything at all. However, you don't seem to understand

> anything that I " ve said at all.

>

> Trial and error succeeds sometimes. True. However, a false statement is

> still a false statement, and a vacuous one is still a vacuous one. All I

> saw in that astrology article was crap. That ancients sometimes

> succeeded by trial and error doesn't excuse you from exercising your

> brain a little. Every ancient practice and belief doesn't have value as

> THEORY, especially as practiced by us, and accusing someone of not being

> open minded because he doesn't accept crap, is absolutely ridiculous. If

> there was NO science that backed up what believed about nutrition this

> would simply be a list of crackpots. Sometimes it does sound that way.

[Guest guest]

" Quite frankly, I don't follow NT because of science. I used to eat

according to a variety of sciences, it didn't work. Finding the right

science by sifting through hundreds of thousands of papers on nutrition

would have taken me ages! Especially when you need solid background to

disprove some of the diet dictocrat's studies (like the saturated fat

study that actually included trans fats). Of course, that doesn't stop

me from looking at studies that specifically relate to NT concepts now

that I eat NT - but you have to realize NT concepts are a needle in the

haystack of crappy nutritional advice. "

There is science and there is bad science. Because there is bad science

certainly doesn't mean that, at its foundation, what is good nutrition

isn't magic. If you want to engage with astrology, that's fine. However

you could also you similar reasoning - because there is 'bad, silly'

astrology, then you shouldn't pay any attention to it at all. Most of

the sound reasoning that I see from the more sane members on this group

IS based on science and logic, and that is why I find the group to still

be a valuable source of information. ly, if the sentiment that

'science is bad' and we should pay attention to astrology, and do

whatever ancient people did because they found stuff by " trial and

error " had won over this group completely, I would have completely

written it off as ruled by a bunch of flakes by now. I certainly don't

want to assign my health over to theories that are derived using that

kind of thinking.

" I follow NT because I have found through trial and error that it makes

me healthy. I trust that the natives did the same thing. If I wern't

thinking, I would just follow NT because someone said to. Instead, I am

actively observing my body's reaction to the foods I put in it and

making conclusions based off of those reactions. That is not " not

thinking " - it is thinking differently. "

If that is all that you do - ignore studies and try stuff by trial and

error - I can't stop you. However, I have known people in my life who

ascribe to such approaches and they can convince themselves of all sorts

of things. And perhaps I have the peculiar 'advantage' of not feeling

particularly different if I eat NT or not....so my goals are mostly long

range, and I can rely on a more dispassionate approach.

" If you don't want to think differently, that's fine. Each to their

own. "

This whole 'open minded' aristocracy reminds of years ago when I was

approached by these chanting heathens in the Boston area. They were

pretty well known, but I forget the cute little name they gave to their

group. They argued that you could get wealthy and successful simply by

chanting their chant, and accused me of not being 'open minded' because

I didn't even consider trying it. I think that the reasoning that you

use - using a statement that everyone would agree with, i.e. 'people

should be open minded' to denigrate having some reasonible filters on

what one accepts/trys and what one doesn't is a pretty nasty and

intellectually dishonest technique. Reminds me a bit of the kind of

reasoning that our government uses repeatedly....'well, what's wrong

with trying to bring freedom to people around the world'....um,

well.....I could use this same argument on you if I wished and say that

you should be more open minded, referring to your attitude about

science, or anything else.

-Lana

> > > Don't be closed minded, it won't do good for you in the long

> run. > > I think that we also should think every once and awhile.

> Very > annoying to be told that you're 'close minded' when you

> attempt to do > so. I think it's better to apply a little analytical

> thinking than it > is to believe every bit of crap that comes along

> because you're afraid

>

> > of being 'close minded'.

>

> " Honestly, I don't think you really read the first part of my post,

> you just went off on how astrology is not credible for anything. You

> completely missed that I was only saying that yes, it could very well

> have something to do with diet due to its relation to seasons. You're

> still stuck on your original point - astrology is good for nothing. "

>

> I still don't understand how I missed anything.

>

>

> " But my point is, if it were so useless, why are calendars based off

> of it? "

>

> Just don't follow this. Really. That calendars may have had something

> originally to do with astrology (I just don't know), really says

> nothing about whether astrology has anything to say as theory about

> anything. All I've seen is crap.

>

> " And since when do seasons and other cyclical environmental

> conditions not relate to diet?

>

> You also completely missed my point that sometimes trial and error

> does succeed and to throw away all that knowledge would be akin to

> believing the diet dictocrats over native nutrition. "

>

> I haven't missed anything at all. However, you don't seem to

> understand anything that I " ve said at all.

>

> Trial and error succeeds sometimes. True. However, a false statement

> is still a false statement, and a vacuous one is still a vacuous one.

> All I saw in that astrology article was crap. That ancients sometimes

> succeeded by trial and error doesn't excuse you from exercising your

> brain a little. Every ancient practice and belief doesn't have value

> as THEORY, especially as practiced by us, and accusing someone of not

> being open minded because he doesn't accept crap, is absolutely

> ridiculous. If there was NO science that backed up what believed

> about nutrition this would simply be a list of crackpots. Sometimes

> it does sound that way.