Re: My digestive problems

July 24, 2005

My dear dear Dare I say that it sounds like you are allergic to milk

protein? Dare I say that you sound like I sounded several years ago =

denial. I haven't known you *that* long but what stands out pretty darned

clearly in almost everything you post is that you have trouble digesting

milk. Well, those little symptoms of discomfort are just the tip of the

iceberg, my friend; While they may seem little and inconvenient to you, your

poor immune system is working o v e r t i m e ... Pretty soon you'll have a

power supply like mine -- the poor hamster that was running for its life

around the wheel all day and all night finally just lays done huffing and

puffing next to the spinning wheel that is now hanging off the bent axel.

Sad.

~Robin, who feels like she's spitting into the wind...

July 25, 2005

>

> asked me in another thread about a week ago what my digestive

> > problems were, and I forgot to answer her.

> >

> > Right now, my digestion is probably the best it's been, actually, but

> > overall, I do still have some gut issues.

> >

> > I find that I'm prone to diarrhea-ish stools. Generally, Primal Defense

> > works for this, and it tends to resurface if I go off it.

> >

> > I've found in the past that I react to milk with rumbling in my

> > stomach, gas, and sometimes diarrhea, especially if mixed with other

> > foods. However, I've found that I tolerate raw cheese much better

> > than fresh milk, yoghurt, or kefir. So I'm guessing my issue is

> > primarily with lactose rather than casein, since raw cheese is

> > carb-free. Although, I always eat cheese, usually in the amount of

> > 1/2 pound, with two HCl tablets. I find that with the HCl, it gives

> > me no problems at all, but the few times I've taken it without the HCl

> > I tend to have diarrhea in response.

> >

> > I occasionally find myself with stomach discomfort, and occasionally I

> > get queasy feelings for no apparent reason. I've also had flatulence

> > in the past. All of these have been pretty good lately, and I rarely

> > fart now. In the last couple of days, I've tried the two meal a day

> > thing, a la 's description of _Mastering Leptin_ with zero

> > snacking outside of the meals, at least 4 hours before dinner and bed,

> > and low-carb, and that seems to have evened out my digestion even

> > more.

> >

> > In the past, as a teenager, I used to have bad digestive problems and

> > sometimes find myself keeled over on the floor and trying to use yoga

> > to relieve discomfort and pain in the gut area. When I went

> > vegetarian and high-soy, it got much worse. My girlfriend and I at

> > the time ate basically the same diet, and we would both go to bed and

> > just fart for 20 minutes. Hilarious that we didn't figure out we were

> > eating poorly from that!

> >

> > I might be leaving out some issues I can't think of, but that about

> > somes it up I think.

> >

>

> Chris

I hope you don't feel like I'm beating up on you but I worried about

my tone in the other post.. These on-going symptoms you talk about are very

serious, especially for someone your age. You're young enough that all you

have to do is eliminate the foods that are causing the problems. It may take

months because I'm guessing that you probably have a certain amount of gut

damage due to prolonged inflammation. Obviously, I'd start with casein and

gluten but you might have developed other food allergies as a result of your

weakened immune system. Only after you eliminate the offending foods can you

start to figure out what might be the true cause of your symptoms. (My guess

is that if you simply eliminate the offending foods long enough, you'll

probably heal right up and be on your merry way.) I really don't mean to

keep nagging you and everybody here is probably tired (already!) of hearing

my pathetic story but your symptoms are to the letter the symptoms of

gluten-intolerance. I have full-blown celiac disease and never even had the

diarhhea part that you talk about. But on and off diarhhea is the classic

symptom. If you don't address these symptoms now all takes is a " trigger " --

an illness, a surgery, an accident or even high stress and suddenly you're

in a new boat, my boat, with diagnosed celiac disease.

I was *perfectly* healthy when I was your age and then out of the blue I

was suddenly diagnosed with a " mysterious illness " (CFIDS) It was like a

train wreck. My life came to stop. No one knew what was causing it but I had

to quit my job and stay in bed for over a year. Until that time I didn't

have a single allergy or food symptom but all of a sudden I had tons. Among

other things, I tested positive for IgE allergies to milk, grass and wheat.

Although IgE allergies are a whole different ballgame than gluten

intolerance, It Sure Is a Coincidence isn't it? But still, no red flags went

up with any of the myriad of doctors I saw back then, 16 years ago. And

since I felt few if any symptoms from these " stupid allergies " I just

continued to eat wheat and milk and run at about 100 miles an hour. And I

got better anyway and I stayed better until I had another " trigger " a little

while ago that almost killed me. Now I'm in the full-blown disease phase and

can't even think of eating an offending food. I honestly think it would kill

me now..

So sixteen years of a combination of not knowing and not wanting to know

and now I'm paying a hefty price. Your gut problems might be manageable now

but if something comes along -- a virus, an accident or something else that

is outside your control -- you may find yourself in a whole new world

overnight. The longer you allow your intestines to stay inflamed, the more

you are taxing your immune system and adrenal glands and the more at risk

you become for intestinal scarring and later having diseases like small

intestinal lymphoma.

Anyway, I keep writing you, because I think you're a good guy and

you're fearless and can probably overcome anything once you put your mind to

it. Maybe I'm saying this more for my own peace of mind than for your

benefit but Please take these symptoms seriously.

~Robin

July 25, 2005

Hi Robin,

I don't know why people online think I'm fearless. LOL!

Anyway, that " something to come along " may have already came. When I

was vegetarian, I came down with a mouth full of cavities including

two dead teeth. Despite the fact that I was aware root canals could

cause problems, I went ahead and got them anyway, basically forcing

myself into denial. I got the two root canals within a week or so of

each other, and within days I developed a small patch of eczema on my

wrists. Within a couple days of my second root canal, I developed a

problem with chronic conjunctivitis for months. I was keeping the

conjunctivitis under control with coconut oil and chicken stock and it

would resurface every time I went a couple days without coconut oil.

When I started eating raw meat I was able to be more flexible with my

diet and not have the conjunctivitis come back.

The eczema eventually spread to cover some 30-40% of my body. From my

fingers to my shoulders on both arms, the side of my torso, and all

over my upper thighs. I beat that down with Primal Defense and butter

oil, but it somes back a little bit here and there.

I believe also that, while many of my gut problems got better after

going off vegetarianism, some of them got worse during the other

symptoms from my root canals. I don't think I had the diarrhea issue

before this point, if I recall correctly.

As it turns out, not only were my root canaled teeth probably the

focal point of a systemic infection (see Meinig's description of

Price's root canal research, _The Root Canal Cover-up_ or article by

same name on www.price-pottenger.org), but both my root canaled teeth

were on my large intestine meridian. One of them is now removed (the

removal of which made my heart beat insanely fast, my throat start to

close up, and a burst of all sorts of colors behind my closed eyes),

and the other has a titanium post which could possibly be having some

sort of electrical effect on this meridian.

I am gluten-free now, grain-free in fact, and while I seem to tolerate

the raw cheese allright, I probably should give it a rest and see how

I respond.

Last night I had trouble sleeping, despite doing well on

low-carb/not-eating-before-bed the two nights before, and oddly, it

seemed at 3am that there was still food in my stomach or something,

with the feeling that there was gaseous digestion going on somewhere

in there, despite having finished my last meal about 8 or 9 hours

previous. I wonder if that could be because I had cheese for the

first time in a couple days yesterday at the beginning of my dinner.

Chris

July 25, 2005

There's a woman called Sandi Radomski who uses EFT and other energy

techniques to treat allergies and sensitivities of all kinds. This

includes treating sensitivities to titanium and other metals that have

been implanted in the body, and that are causing problems. And she's

found many people who are having autoimmune and other problems from

metals. If you want to check out her website it's

www.allergyantidotes.com - if she's not in your area, there may be

someone nearby that she's trained. Or email me offlist if you want to

ask more.

Cheers, Deb

On 7/26/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> As it turns out, not only were my root canaled teeth probably the

> focal point of a systemic infection (see Meinig's description of

> Price's root canal research, _The Root Canal Cover-up_ or article by

> same name on www.price-pottenger.org), but both my root canaled teeth

> were on my large intestine meridian. One of them is now removed (the

> removal of which made my heart beat insanely fast, my throat start to

> close up, and a burst of all sorts of colors behind my closed eyes),

> and the other has a titanium post which could possibly be having some

> sort of electrical effect on this meridian.

July 25, 2005

On 7/25/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> Last night I had trouble sleeping, despite doing well on

> low-carb/not-eating-before-bed the two nights before, and oddly, it

> seemed at 3am that there was still food in my stomach or something,

> with the feeling that there was gaseous digestion going on somewhere

> in there, despite having finished my last meal about 8 or 9 hours

> previous. I wonder if that could be because I had cheese for the

> first time in a couple days yesterday at the beginning of my dinner.

Actually, I should add that it was the first time I had *cow's milk*

cheese in a couple *weeks*. It's my understanding that most milk

allergy is related to a particular form of casein that is largely

present in certain modern breeds of cows and either absent or minimal

in goat and sheep milk. I'd been using sheep milk cheese for a couple

weeks,a nd perhaps that doesn't give me the problems that cow's milk

products do.

Chris

July 25, 2005

>I've also had flatulence

>in the past. All of these have been pretty good lately, and I rarely

>fart now. In the last couple of days, I've tried the two meal a day

>thing, a la 's description of _Mastering Leptin_ with zero

>snacking outside of the meals, at least 4 hours before dinner and bed,

>and low-carb, and that seems to have evened out my digestion even

>more.

>

I'm sorry you are having problems. I don't fart anymore either, now

that I am low carb. Um, your description of vegetarian flatulence

frenzies brought back memories for me as well <g>. So, we know your

ketogenic even while downing GF pizzas. Have you cut back further on

the starch and grain-based carbs, Mr. Metabolism?

Deanna

July 25, 2005

On 7/25/05, Deanna Wagner <hl@...> wrote:

> I'm sorry you are having problems. I don't fart anymore either, now

> that I am low carb. Um, your description of vegetarian flatulence

> frenzies brought back memories for me as well <g>. So, we know your

> ketogenic even while downing GF pizzas. Have you cut back further on

> the starch and grain-based carbs, Mr. Metabolism?

Yes, I've eliminated starches and concentrated sugars (like maple

syrup.) I have some carbs from coffee, kimchi, and wild blueberries

in the morning, and some carbs from assorted vegetables in the

evening. I'm genuinely low-carb, although I might add in ending the

evening with a potato or sweet potato, depending on how low-carb seems

to effect my workout and my ability to sleep in the long-run. But I

figure I'll stick out super-low-carb for a week and see what happens

as an experiment, and hope it might jump-start some fat loss.

I've lost three pounds over the last three days by my pre-breakfast

morning weigh-in, which hopefully and probably is mostly fat, because

it seems when I stand up there is less to pinch off my lower-abs.

It's looking, oddly, like I might get a good six-pack before I lose my

(quite) moderate love-handles.

I wonder if that is any indication of hormonal imbalances? I know

that some hormone excesses are associated with stubborn fat

depositions in certain places, but I don't know any details.

Chris

July 25, 2005

Chris-

>Although, I always eat cheese, usually in the amount of

>1/2 pound, with two HCl tablets. I find that with the HCl, it gives

>me no problems at all, but the few times I've taken it without the HCl

>I tend to have diarrhea in response.

Is there any way you can get a Heidelberg test? Might be very, very

interesting.

-

July 25, 2005

On 7/25/05, Idol <Idol@...> wrote:

> Is there any way you can get a Heidelberg test? Might be very, very

> interesting.

What is it? How do you get one?

Chris

July 25, 2005

Chris-

>What is it? How do you get one?

You swallow a capsule that contains measuring equipment and a radio

transmitter, and then your stomach's ability to produce acid is challenged

and the capsule reports the pH of your stomach and your small and large

intestines. A doctor has to do it, and most doctors don't have Heidelberg

capsules and the receiver you wear like a belt, so it might not be too easy

or cheap to have it done.

Here's an interesting article on the subject of hypochlorhydria, something

I unfortunately know much too much about.

http://www.medical-library.net/sites/framer.html?/sites/_hypochlorhydria.html

-

July 25, 2005

On 7/25/05, Idol <Idol@...> wrote:

> Chris-

>

> >What is it? How do you get one?

>

> You swallow a capsule that contains measuring equipment and a radio

> transmitter, and then your stomach's ability to produce acid is challenged

> and the capsule reports the pH of your stomach and your small and large

> intestines. A doctor has to do it, and most doctors don't have Heidelberg

> capsules and the receiver you wear like a belt, so it might not be too easy

> or cheap to have it done.

Wow, what a crazy test! Is it safe? Have you done it? What happens

to the radio device?

I'll check out the link soon. Thanks.

By the way, if I appear to need HCl with *some* foods, would that be

an indicator that I would need it for *all* foods?

Chris

July 26, 2005

Chris-

>Wow, what a crazy test! Is it safe? Have you done it? What happens

>to the radio device?

As far as I know, it's perfectly safe, but I haven't done it. The capsule

just goes in one end and out the other, so it's not like it hangs around

forever, gumming up the works. I believe you're supposed to retrieve it,

but I could be wrong.

>By the way, if I appear to need HCl with *some* foods, would that be

>an indicator that I would need it for *all* foods?

I think it probably does, but it conceivably doesn't. An allergic reaction

(or maybe even some other kind of reaction) could, I suppose, suppress your

HCl production only when you eat some foods. I think it's just more likely

to be obvious with some things than others, though.

-

July 26, 2005

What is the best enzyme and HCl supplement to use?

I'm considering getting a quality multi-glandular, HCl, enzymes,

CLO/BO, and free amino acid complex supplement. Dr. Rind said that if

HCl is deficient, then the protective mucus to protect the stomach

lining is usually deficient to, and he recommended some herbs to take

with HCl. I think one of them was elderberry.

Some other digestive symptoms I have:

While my flatulence is pretty minimal right now, what I do encounter

often is a sound/feeling like there is gas exchange going on inside my

gut. Sometimes, hours after eating a meal, I will hear some rumbling

going on and activity down there that seems like a product of poor

digestion.

Also, while I'm not particularly fat in my abdomen, I have a gut. You

can tell from feeling my gut that it is protruding from beneath the

muscle, not because of an excess of subcutaneous fat. Generally I

suck my gut in, but if I stand up straight with my shoulders back and

completely relax my abdomen, I look kind of fat.

It never occurred to me that this was an issue (in large part because

I never completely relax my abdomen), until I read the Mercola article

a couple weeks ago by the author of _How to Eat, Move, and be

Healthy_, who said that getting flat abs was largely a part of

clearing up all the fungi and sludge and other crap that sticks around

down there, that pushes the gut out.

Chris

July 26, 2005

You might try raw Ginger. It is great for digestion, stomach, gas,

killing the bad bacteria, etc. It also has a power protein digestive

enzyme. Eat as much as you can stand. It also is anti-inflammatory

and also has the same effect as aspirin. A clinic in Israel

recommends 1/2 teaspoon daily instead of aspirin. No side effects and

it has many other benefits. I'd try this before all that other stuff.

And then try to undereat instead of overeat, if that is a problem.

Bob

> What is the best enzyme and HCl supplement to use?

>

> I'm considering getting a quality multi-glandular, HCl, enzymes,

> CLO/BO, and free amino acid complex supplement. Dr. Rind said that if

> HCl is deficient, then the protective mucus to protect the stomach

> lining is usually deficient to, and he recommended some herbs to take

> with HCl. I think one of them was elderberry.

>

> Some other digestive symptoms I have:

>

> While my flatulence is pretty minimal right now, what I do encounter

> often is a sound/feeling like there is gas exchange going on inside my

> gut. Sometimes, hours after eating a meal, I will hear some rumbling

> going on and activity down there that seems like a product of poor

> digestion.

>

> Also, while I'm not particularly fat in my abdomen, I have a gut. You

> can tell from feeling my gut that it is protruding from beneath the

> muscle, not because of an excess of subcutaneous fat. Generally I

> suck my gut in, but if I stand up straight with my shoulders back and

> completely relax my abdomen, I look kind of fat.

>

> It never occurred to me that this was an issue (in large part because

> I never completely relax my abdomen), until I read the Mercola article

> a couple weeks ago by the author of _How to Eat, Move, and be

> Healthy_, who said that getting flat abs was largely a part of

> clearing up all the fungi and sludge and other crap that sticks around

> down there, that pushes the gut out.

>

> Chris

July 26, 2005

>

> until I read the Mercola article couple weeks ago by the author of _How to

> Eat, Move, and be Healthy_, who said that getting flat abs was largely a

> part of clearing up all the fungi and sludge and other crap that sticks

> around down there, that pushes the gut out.

> Chris

I didn't read that article, but it sounds right to me. That's why I

mentioned to you that even though I lost all the weight from my " trigger "

illness and then gained it back my waist is a LOT smaller -- (despite my

other complaints it's very cool to be this far middle aged and not have a

pouch.) That's why I'd like to weigh in on your diet some more. I'm just so

busy now because it's the first time in a long while that I've felt this

good and I'm trying to catch up. I started working out again a few days ago

and my muscles are coming back easily so I don't know about this muscle

wasting business because I've been almost bedridden for a couple years now

and despite losing (at one point) about 20% of my weight in a month my

muscles are still alive and well. So I guess it depends? I'll try to take a

" before " picture tomorrow so you can see what I mean. It's nothing to brag

about (heck, I'm 53) but it's pretty amazing I have any muscles left after

what I went through. I just got back from the gym and it really feels good

to get the blood going through them again. I'm back at my right weight now

and even have to be careful not to gain..

That rumbling in the small intestinal area was one of my trademark symptoms

through all the digestive madness of the past couple years. For the most

part it's finally gone now. When it comes up (occasionally) I do an enema (I

got a 4-quart hospital bag and so it's quite easy.) It isn't so much to

remove the " debris " as it is to let off some of the gas that's waay up there

in the small intestinal area and is what is causing the inflamation in my

guts. (Since I'd already quit gluten, I think the gurgling was from the

lactose in the goat milk yogurt and kefir I was drinking up until a few

months ago (?) I follow enemas with a probiotics implant and make sure I

drink or eat a lot of probiotic-bacteria-containing-foods or supplements..

I think that because your gut walls are compromised, a lot of food isn't

digesting properly and it sits too long in the stomach and/or small

intestine and it ferments. It's so far up it's not like normal (funny) gas

that you can release with flatulence. The enema was the only thing that

eased those symptoms for me but I'd have to use about 4 qts. of water and

finally all this air would come out -- like letting the air out of a

balloon. What a relief. It just saved me so many times! Since you say you're

a little bit heavy right now maybe you can't notice that your stomach is

distended from the gas. When I got so skinny it was finally very obvious and

so I just couldn't ignore it. Now, when I try to gauge whether I'm getting

too fat, I have to look at the tops of my thighs and see if they are

touching. I've had abdominal distension for so long, it's really hard to

tell the difference between what's fat and what's crud and gas -- even when

you're bone thin.

Of course, I figured that enemas probably aren't that good to use regularly

but even if I lost some good bacteria with the bad, because I was constantly

replenishing the good stuff I thought that maybe the balance would someday

work in my favor. I must say that after doing this for over a year I am

feeling great this past week or so -- I feel I'm over the hump -- and I'm

having VERY few digestive problems. It's as if something just clicked lately

and I'm back on track to getting well. My stomach is flat the rumblings are

gone and I'm not tired after eating a big meal. People say they can see the

health in my eyes.

I know at WAP we're down on " raw foods " and all that but in a weird way my

mistake of going that route early on really cleaned the crud out. I don't

necessarily think it's a good thing and can't recommend it but I do think

that by drinking a lot of fresh raw vegetable juices (especially celery) I

got rid of a lot of crud that was lining my colon -- and that helped control

the overall bacterial situation later. I expect there to be controversy on

this point. :-)

If I were you I'd back off on all the big eating for a few weeks.

And maybe even try a bone-broth-only fast for a few days. Add some miso

and/or gelatin to the broth. Rest a lot and do deep breathing. Don't workout

just go on long walks each day. After the fast I'd add back in fresh steamed

vegetables and maybe drink a teensy bit of fresh juiced watermelon in the

morning (careful!!!) and very very simple foods carefully chewed and taken

with lots of enzymes and HCL. I'd ferment any fruit first or have baked

skinned apple and only one fruit a day. I might even include a tablespoon of

some cleansing fiber and drink lots of water. I know y'all don't believe in

detox and cleansing diets (and I can't really recommend them!) but for a

tiny amount of time I think they can work to reboot your system and clean

some of the crud out.

I think you need to look at ANY sort of gas or rumbings as an indication

that something is wrong and remember whatever it was you did that got you

there. If you're like me it was pretty much every food to some degree at my

worst point and that's why a modified broth-type fast helped me to reboot

and g r a d u a l l y add back in foods..

I love the WAP way and all the meat and fat and so on but I don't think

it's my first choice right off the bat for someone who is ailing which I

think you are. When I was ailing, fats were especially hard on my system.

Lean proteins you can fake a bit by consuming a lot of HCl.. And the small

amount of carbs you eat need to be chewed *thoroughly* (remember that a

large percent of carb digestion is in your mouth with your saliva.) Maybe

fats are okay but only if you take a lot of pancreatin with them. I'd be

careful at first though.. Fats (even though I love 'em!) are dense (almost 3

times the calories by weight as carbs or protein.) Breaking down something

concentrated is just a little bit harder when you're trying to give your

system a break.

Again, I'm a proponent of fat but I believe that if you're sick you need to

work up to it. With these rumblings and so on, those are serious symptoms, I

think you should consider yourself sick and try to carefully rebuild.

There's a time to put wood on the fire and there's a time to nurture the

coals.

So after you do the broth and the steamed vegetables/lean

meats/easy-on-the-fats I'd gradually add things in being careful to note how

your body responds. At the first gurgle in your small intestine -- take a

step back. I guess it goes without saying that I would not eat any food that

had an reputation for being an allergin: tomatoes, corn, dairy and gluten. I

would continue to force myself to rest. Your body is performing miracles

inside -- let it rebuild itself.

I've read your symptoms from the beginning of joining this group and

I've always related to them -- exactly. That's why I always seem to chime in

on this stuff. Of course you should do what you think is best and feel free

to criticise my approach I certainly won't be offended in the least I just

feel that I have to at least weigh in (for personal reasons.) It's just too

darned similar to what happened to me.

And by the way, if it turns out the you do have both the gluten gene and

are allergic to dairy (which is what I suspect) the good news is that you

can at your age completely cure it. I know it sounds dreadful at first to

contemplate having to " give up " all sorts of foods but at least you can cure

yourself completely by eliminating those things. You'll also lose a lot of

weight, especially if you decide (like I did) to avoid all those silly

substitutes for wheat flour and so on... Meat, vegetables and fats: makes it

real easy -- you just have to find other sources of pleasure than a huge

array of foods. It's really rather freeing...

BTW, the supplements I use are Thorne B.P.P. (4-5 with meals) and Dipan-9

(3 after meals) I take a couple of Enzymedica Golf Digest before I eat...

My 2 bucks :-)

~Robin

July 27, 2005

>

> Actually, I should add that it was the first time I had *cow's milk*

> > cheese in a couple *weeks*. It's my understanding that most milk allergy is

> > related to a particular form of casein that is largely present in certain

> > modern breeds of cows and either absent or minimal

> > in goat and sheep milk. I'd been using sheep milk cheese for a couple

> > weeks,a nd perhaps that doesn't give me the problems that cow's milk

> > products do. Chris

>

> If you're allergic to cow's milk you can at first have some success with

goats' and/or sheeps' milk. But I found through trial and error that being

allergic to casein usually means for *all* the animals. I ate a couple cups

of goat milk yogurt each day for months on the SCD with no apparent

symptoms. When I accidently stopped for a few weeks and then re-introduced

it, I had pain and grumbings right away in my stomach. My doctor had told me

that being allergic to milk worked the same for all the animals -- some just

have a bit less or a slightly different kind of casein but soon enough your

body learns to recognize its enemy. ~Robin

July 27, 2005

On 7/26/05, Robin Ann <grainwreck@...> wrote:

> >

> > until I read the Mercola article couple weeks ago by the author of _How to

> > Eat, Move, and be Healthy_, who said that getting flat abs was largely a

> > part of clearing up all the fungi and sludge and other crap that sticks

> > around down there, that pushes the gut out.

> > Chris

>

> I didn't read that article, but it sounds right to me.

<snip>

> When it comes up (occasionally) I do an enema (I

> got a 4-quart hospital bag and so it's quite easy.) It isn't so much to

> remove the " debris " as it is to let off some of the gas that's waay up there

> in the small intestinal area and is what is causing the inflamation in my

> guts. (Since I'd already quit gluten, I think the gurgling was from the

> lactose in the goat milk yogurt and kefir I was drinking up until a few

> months ago (?) I follow enemas with a probiotics implant and make sure I

> drink or eat a lot of probiotic-bacteria-containing-foods or supplements..

> I think that because your gut walls are compromised, a lot of food isn't

> digesting properly and it sits too long in the stomach and/or small

> intestine and it ferments. It's so far up it's not like normal (funny) gas

> that you can release with flatulence. The enema was the only thing that

> eased those symptoms for me but I'd have to use about 4 qts. of water and

> finally all this air would come out -- like letting the air out of a

> balloon. What a relief. It just saved me so many times!

What you are doing is great, but it is not a regular enema, it is what

is known as a high enema, and is far more effective than a

conventional enema. Colonics will accomplish much the same thing.

Usually though a four quart enema requires patience and a partner. Btw

using coffee here is one place where it is good for you :-)

<snip>

> Of course, I figured that enemas probably aren't that good to use regularly

Nope but they are great as a temporary therapeutic

> I know at WAP we're down on " raw foods " and all that but in a weird way my

> mistake of going that route early on really cleaned the crud out.

There are lots of people in WAP who are into raw foods. In fact one of

the distinctives of WAP's primitives is that they all ate some form of

raw animal food regularly.

> I don't

> necessarily think it's a good thing and can't recommend it but I do think

> that by drinking a lot of fresh raw vegetable juices (especially celery) I

> got rid of a lot of crud that was lining my colon -- and that helped control

> the overall bacterial situation later. I expect there to be controversy on

> this point. :-)

Juices can be a great temporary therapeutic tool as well.

> If I were you I'd back off on all the big eating for a few weeks.

> And maybe even try a bone-broth-only fast for a few days.

Fasting? Did someone say fasting??? LOL!

> Add some miso

> and/or gelatin to the broth. Rest a lot and do deep breathing. Don't workout

> just go on long walks each day. After the fast I'd add back in fresh steamed

> vegetables and maybe drink a teensy bit of fresh juiced watermelon in the

> morning (careful!!!) and very very simple foods carefully chewed and taken

> with lots of enzymes and HCL. I'd ferment any fruit first or have baked

> skinned apple and only one fruit a day. I might even include a tablespoon of

> some cleansing fiber and drink lots of water. I know y'all don't believe in

> detox and cleansing diets (and I can't really recommend them!) but for a

> tiny amount of time I think they can work to reboot your system and clean

> some of the crud out.

Some of us do believe in cleansing diets.

> I think you need to look at ANY sort of gas or rumbings as an indication

> that something is wrong and remember whatever it was you did that got you

> there. If you're like me it was pretty much every food to some degree at my

> worst point and that's why a modified broth-type fast helped me to reboot

> and g r a d u a l l y add back in foods..

Fasting? Did someone say fasting???? LOL!

> I love the WAP way and all the meat and fat and so on but I don't think

> it's my first choice right off the bat for someone who is ailing which I

> think you are.

Getting well is one place vegan diets can be helpful, as a temporary

short term measure.

> You'll also lose a lot of

> weight, especially if you decide (like I did) to avoid all those silly

> substitutes for wheat flour and so on...

Oh boy, you may have lost him here :-)

July 27, 2005

> >[robin] If I were you I'd back off on all the big eating >

> >for a few weeks. And maybe even try a bone-broth-only fast for a

> >few days.

>

> [michael] Fasting? Did someone say fasting??? LOL!

>[snip]

> > [robin] I think you need to look at ANY sort of gas or rumbings >

> >as an indication that something is wrong and remember whatever it >

> >was you did that got you there. If you're like me it was pretty

> >much every food to some degree at my worst point and that's why a >

> >modified broth-type fast helped me to reboot and g r a d u a l l >

> >y add back in foods..

>

> [michael] Fasting? Did someone say fasting???? LOL!

Oh brother! I get all the way up out of bed to turn the computer back

on because I just *knew* that someone -- another night owl -- would

call me out for suggesting a " fast " . Busted! Yes, I meant a sort of

cleansing... er... diet. Hah! This is too much. Go to bed :-)

~Robin

July 27, 2005

On 7/27/05, Cannon <rkcannon@...> wrote:

> You might try raw Ginger. It is great for digestion, stomach, gas,

> killing the bad bacteria, etc. It also has a power protein digestive

> enzyme. Eat as much as you can stand. It also is anti-inflammatory

> and also has the same effect as aspirin. A clinic in Israel

> recommends 1/2 teaspoon daily instead of aspirin. No side effects and

> it has many other benefits. I'd try this before all that other stuff.

> And then try to undereat instead of overeat, if that is a problem.

I've found ginger to be great for a stomach bug or digestion. I don't

remember whether I ate it raw, but I did combine raw garlic with

grating fresh raw ginger and making a tea out of it.

Chris

July 27, 2005

On 7/27/05, Suze Fisher <s.fisher22@...> wrote:

> >> until I read the Mercola article couple weeks ago by the author

> >of _How to

> >> Eat, Move, and be Healthy_, who said that getting flat abs was largely a

> >> part of clearing up all the fungi and sludge and other crap that sticks

> >> around down there, that pushes the gut out.

> >> Chris

>

> Isn't " pushing the gut out " a fancy way of saying bloat?

I guess so. I don't necessarily *feel* bloated all the time, but if I

don't such my gut in, it is quite clearly protruding to a very large

degree. The first point out is an inch or two below my belly button.

And it isn't fat, so it must be bloated, right?

Chris

July 27, 2005

Chris-

> I'm considering getting a quality multi-glandular, HCl, enzymes,

> CLO/BO, and free amino acid complex supplement. Dr. Rind said that if

> HCl is deficient, then the protective mucus to protect the stomach

> lining is usually deficient to, and he recommended some herbs to take

> with HCl. I think one of them was elderberry.

The difficulty is finding a mucous-promoting supplement that won't

compromise digestion all by itself. If elderberry will work, though,

there's nothing wrong with it aside from the sugar content, and maybe there

are extracts available.

For a pancreatin supplement, I recommend Lipanase from Labs, just

because it has a higher lipase content than all the other pancreatin

supplements I've found to date. As to HCl, you have a bit of a

choice. Most HCl suppelements have about 650mg of betaine HCl and about

130mg of pepsin. A couple (Pure Encapsulations and Thorne Research are the

only ones I'm aware of) have a ratio more like 520:21, which is PE's. In

my experience, " regular " HCl supplements give me a severe reflux problem,

but the low-pepsin versions aren't strong enough for adequate protein

digestion and therefore don't improve stools as much as regular HCl pills

either. Lately, I've been experimenting with taking ginger juice with

meals and boosting the proportion of regular HCl capsules with some

success. My digestion has improved substantially and the damage to my

lungs from reflux has been minimal at most. I'm hoping I can switch over

to using only regular HCl in time, even if that means several tablespoons

of ginger juice with every meal. This probably won't be an issue for you,

but I thought I'd mention it just for in case. Of course, finding

filler-free versions of these supplements is all but impossible.

Oh, one further note: if you're going to experiment with digestive aids, I

wouldn't rely on plant-based supplements alone. They can be useful

adjuncts for some foods for some people, but when you get right down to it,

your digestive system expects the results of food mixed with HCl,

pepsinogen, pancreatin, etc.

-

July 27, 2005

On 7/27/05, Robin Ann <grainwreck@...> wrote:

Thanks for your response, Robin.

> I didn't read that article, but it sounds right to me. That's why I

> mentioned to you that even though I lost all the weight from my " trigger "

> illness and then gained it back my waist is a LOT smaller -- (despite my

> other complaints it's very cool to be this far middle aged and not have a

> pouch.)

Actually, I was thinking recently that I look like I have a " pouch. "

Only to my knowledge, and hope, I don't have a uterus behind it!

> I'll try to take a " before " picture tomorrow so you can see what I mean. It's

nothing to brag

> about (heck, I'm 53) but it's pretty amazing I have any muscles left after

> what I went through.

Maybe your age increases your bragging rights.

> Since you say you're a little bit heavy right now maybe you can't notice that

your > stomach is distended from the gas.

If by " heavy " you mean " fat, " then no, it is clearly stomach

distension and not fat. It's pretty easy to tell. I can tell how

much fat is there by pinching it, and I can't pinch anywhere near

enough fat to explain the shape of my stomach at all. Basically, if I

rest my abdominal muscles, my stomach takes on an angular shape, where

from my sternum (lowest point) to about 2 or 3 inches under my belly

button (most protruded point) it slants outward.

This IS indicative of a problem right? I don't think it's normal (or

healthy, rather), but I actually didn't think much of it till reading

the Mercola article.

> If I were you I'd back off on all the big eating for a few weeks.

> And maybe even try a bone-broth-only fast for a few days. Add some miso