Liver cleanse debris test results

[Guest guest]

Hello All,

As I mentioned in a previous post I finally had my doctor test the debris

that came out during my liver cleanses. The results came in a couple of

days ago and indicated that the one representative stone that he asked me to

pull from all of the debris that you see in the pictures in the photo

gallery is made up of bile salts.

Ron

[Guest guest]

Ron-

>As I mentioned in a previous post I finally had my doctor test the debris

>that came out during my liver cleanses. The results came in a couple of

>days ago and indicated that the one representative stone that he asked me to

>pull from all of the debris that you see in the pictures in the photo

>gallery is made up of bile salts.

Unless I'm missing something, that argues against the efficacy of these

flushes.

-

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

> >As I mentioned in a previous post I finally had my doctor

> test the debris

> >that came out during my liver cleanses. The results came in

> a couple of

> >days ago and indicated that the one representative stone

> that he asked me to

> >pull from all of the debris that you see in the pictures in the photo

> >gallery is made up of bile salts.

>

> Unless I'm missing something, that argues against the

> efficacy of these

> flushes.

>

Uh, how so? Solid mass of bile salts does not equal gallstone in your

estimation? If it does not, then how did many hundreds of clumps of liquid

green bile salts expressed from my liver and gall bladder get formed into

masses in my digestive tract?

Ron

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

> >As I mentioned in a previous post I finally had my doctor

> test the debris

> >that came out during my liver cleanses. The results came in

> a couple of

> >days ago and indicated that the one representative stone

> that he asked me to

> >pull from all of the debris that you see in the pictures in

the photo

> >gallery is made up of bile salts.

>

> Unless I'm missing something, that argues against the

> efficacy of these

> flushes.

>

Uh, how so? Solid mass of bile salts does not equal gallstone in

your

estimation? If it does not, then how did many hundreds of clumps

of liquid

green bile salts expressed from my liver and gall bladder get

formed into

masses in my digestive tract?

Ron

----------------

How about this? The little balls are a result of the digestion

(bile salts) of citric acid and olive oil. They are green because

olive oil is green. They did not come from your liver; they came

from the grocery store.

-Mark

[Guest guest]

> How about this? The little balls are a result of the digestion

> (bile salts) of citric acid and olive oil. They are green because

> olive oil is green. They did not come from your liver; they came

> from the grocery store.

>

Hmm. Not very likely, I think. The stones had a brilliant green (almost

fluorescent) core with a dull brownish green coating. For the main mass of

the stone to be olive oil (which the test results showed was not -- it was

bile salts) there would have to be some kind of chemical reaction turning a

golden oil into a bright green mass. And then, three liquids would have had

to have been solidified within my digestive tract which is largely geared

towards breaking things apart.

There seems to quite a powerful drive in many people to make sure that these

stones and debris did not come from the liver and gallbladder. Too many

broken paradigms, perhaps.

I am actually much more interested in getting to the truth of the matter and

am not locked in irrevocably to the idea that they are something other than

gallstones and liver debris. Yet, having had the complete experience of

what went into passing the stones and having actually seen, felt and smelled

the stones I am largely convinced that they did come from my liver or

gallbladder. That the test results showed that they were actually made up

of bile salts and not citric acid and olive oil seems even more compelling

to me.

Please prove me wrong if possible. I don't want to be operating under false

pretenses or telling other people that I got results that I did not get. So

far I'm unpersuaded that I'm incorrect.

Ron

[Guest guest]

> There seems to quite a powerful drive in many people to make sure that

> these

> stones and debris did not come from the liver and gallbladder. Too

> many

> broken paradigms, perhaps.

Have you ever passed a gallstone the " regular " way? What interests me

about these stories is how all these " gallstones " are " flushed " without

severe, debilitating pain. No one's ever explained that to me--how

these large objects get through the bile duct. Because when you pass a

gallstone, first you think you're dying and then you wish you were. And

I don't understand what there would be about these flushes that would

allow gallstone passing without intense pain, especially if you're

forcing the digestion of massive quantities of oil. That's why *I'm*

skeptical.

Lynn S.

------

Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky

http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com

http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net

[Guest guest]

>> And

I don't understand what there would be about these flushes that would

allow gallstone passing without intense pain, especially if you're

forcing the digestion of massive quantities of oil. That's why *I'm*

skeptical.

<<

I'm with Lynn on this one. Eat a whopping big dose of olive oil or any fat,

and your gall bladder will do its thing. If you have stones in there, or a

scarred, infected, or irritated gall bladder.... you'll be in pretty serious

pain. And if you pass a stone? Death will look good.

Gallstones are not made of bile acids at all, but of cholesterol (most

common), calcium and bile pigments formed from the destruction of red blood

cells (second most common), and a mixture of calcium and bilirubin that is a

byproduct of the infection of the bile (least common).

The liver creates bile, which is stored in the gall bladder to be released

when needed for digestion of fats. Bile is made up of cholesterol and bile

salts. Sometimes, for reasons that aren't fully understood, the cholesterol

precipitates out of the bile and forms stones. Most people do have a few

stones by the time they die, but a subset of those people develop pain,

infection, and other symptoms of gall bladder disease.

So if your " stones " were 100 percent bile salts as you say, then they

certainly were not gallstones and would most likely be a product of

digestion.

Christie

Caber Feidh ish Deerhounds

Holistically Raising Our Dogs Since 1986

http://www.caberfeidh.com

http://doggedblog.com

[Guest guest]

That's the role of the epson salts. Magnesium causes muscles to

relax.

I grew up taking Milk of Magnesia for constipation. I had

gotten away from keeping it around since the high-fat NT-style of

eating seems to keep things moving well.

But a friend told me that if you have facial tics or muscle cramps or

hiccups, you are short on magnesium. So if I have any of those

symptoms, I reach for magnesium.

I can't remember the last time I took aspirin or acetominophen or

ibuprofen or one of the other painkillers.

Oh, I understand that when the body produces insulin, it consumes

magnesium. Now I know that if I eat too much sugar or starch one

day,

that's the reason I'm achy the next day!

--- In , Lynn Siprelle <lynn@s...>

wrote:

> And

> I don't understand what there would be about these flushes that

would

> allow gallstone passing without intense pain, especially if you're

> forcing the digestion of massive quantities of oil. That's why

*I'm*

> skeptical.

>

> Lynn S.

>

> ------

> Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky

> http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com

> http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net

[Guest guest]

Ron-

>Uh, how so? Solid mass of bile salts does not equal gallstone in your

>estimation? If it does not, then how did many hundreds of clumps of liquid

>green bile salts expressed from my liver and gall bladder get formed into

>masses in my digestive tract?

Exactly: solid masses of bile salts does not equal gallstones. There are

two types of gallstones, cholesterol stones and calcified " pigment "

stones. Cholesterol stones are made of crystallized cholesterol, and

" pigment " stones are made of calcified bile. Plain bile salts are

neither. Therefore, your test results suggest that those little balls were

formed during the flushing process.

Here's About.com's blurb on stones.

>>CHOLESTEROL STONES

>>

>>Although cholesterol makes up only five percent of bile, about

>>three-quarters of the gallstones found in the US population are formed

>>from this substance. Cholesterol gallstones typically form in the

>>following way:

>>- Cholesterol is not very soluble, so in order to remain suspended in

>>fluid it must be transported within clusters of bile salts called

>>micelles. If there is an imbalance between these bile salts and

>>cholesterol, then the bile fluid turns to sludge. This thickened fluid

>>consists of a mucus gel containing cholesterol and calcium bilirubinate.

>>- If the imbalance worsens, cholesterol crystals form (called

>>supersaturation), which can eventually form gallstones.

>>- This process of gallstone formation is referred to as cholelithiasis.

>>It is very slow and most often painless.

>>

>>Supersaturation and cholelithiasis can occur as a result of various

>>abnormalities, although the cause is not entirely clear. Events that may

>>promote cholelithiasis include the following:

>>The liver secretes too much cholesterol into the bile.

>>

>>- The gallbladder may not be able to empty normally, so that the bile

>>becomes stagnant.

>>- The cells lining the gallbladder may not be able to absorb cholesterol

>>and fat from bile efficiently.

>>- High levels of bilirubin have been observed in patients with

>>gallstones. Bilirubin is a substance normally formed by the breakdown of

>>hemoglobin in the blood and it is excreted in bile. Some experts believe

>>it may play an important role in cholesterol gallstones.

>>

>>PIGMENT STONES

>>

>>Pigment stones are composed of calcium bilirubinate, or calcified

>>bilirubin. Pigment stones can be black or brown.

>>- Black stones form in the gallbladder and are the more common type. In

>>fact, they represent 20% of all gallstones in the US. They are more

>>likely to develop in people with hemolytic anemia (a relatively rare

>>anemia where red blood cells are destroyed) or cirrhosis (a scarred liver).

>>- Brown pigment stones are more common in Asian populations. They contain

>>more cholesterol and calcium than black pigment stones and are more

>>likely to occur in the bile ducts. Infection plays a role in the

>>development of these stones. One report suggested that bacteria or other

>>microorganisms may trigger oxidation--a damaging chemical process in the

>>body--which, in this case, can cause changes that lead to pigment stone

>>formation.

As you see, a cholesterol stone is quite different in composition from

bile, which is only 5% cholesterol.

-

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynn,

Great questions.

The liver cleanse protocol is designed to allow you to flush the stones with

no pain. The preparatory work that you do for the first 6 days softens the

stones so they are not so hard and sharp. The Epsom salts that you take the

evening of the flush relax the bile ducts and allow them to become very

flexible so that the stones can pass painlessly. The olive oil forces the

liver and gallbladder to spasm and dump the softened stones through the

opened and relaxed pathways into the digestive tract.

These are the premises, anyway.

Ron

> Have you ever passed a gallstone the " regular " way? What interests me

> about these stories is how all these " gallstones " are

> " flushed " without

> severe, debilitating pain. No one's ever explained that to me--how

> these large objects get through the bile duct. Because when

> you pass a

> gallstone, first you think you're dying and then you wish you

> were. And

> I don't understand what there would be about these flushes that would

> allow gallstone passing without intense pain, especially if you're

> forcing the digestion of massive quantities of oil. That's why *I'm*

> skeptical.

>

> Lynn S.

>

> ------

[Guest guest]

Hi Christie,

Your arguments are the most persuasive that I've seen but I'm still inclined

to think that at least a significant portion of the debris that I passed was

garbage that was in my liver and gallbladder.

A big part of this is the purely subjective experience I had of going

through the entire process and fully understanding what was coming out of my

digestive tract and when it was coming out. Another part of it is seeing

the stones themselves. The test that I had done was on one stone out of

thousands. I picked a large one thinking that it would be a better test

subject. I may have chosen incorrectly and would have done better picking a

smaller very hard calcified looking stone.

Of all of the arguments against the debris being made in my digestive tract

the most powerful to me is the notion that for all those lumps to form and

solidify there would have to be a mechanism that would allow three pure

liquids to congeal and mass up within my totally clean digestive tract.

While it may be possible, I don't think that's what happened. I have seen

bile emulsified butter pass through my digestive tract after my juice fasts

and the way it presents is as a kind of heavy very yellow diffuse liquid in

the bottom of the toilet. Not as yellow clumps of matter.

Ron

>

> Gallstones are not made of bile acids at all, but of cholesterol (most

> common), calcium and bile pigments formed from the

> destruction of red blood

> cells (second most common), and a mixture of calcium and

> bilirubin that is a

> byproduct of the infection of the bile (least common).

>

> The liver creates bile, which is stored in the gall bladder

> to be released

> when needed for digestion of fats. Bile is made up of

> cholesterol and bile

> salts. Sometimes, for reasons that aren't fully understood,

> the cholesterol

> precipitates out of the bile and forms stones. Most people do

> have a few

> stones by the time they die, but a subset of those people

> develop pain,

> infection, and other symptoms of gall bladder disease.

>

> So if your " stones " were 100 percent bile salts as you say, then they

> certainly were not gallstones and would most likely be a product of

> digestion.

>

[Guest guest]

,

> Exactly: solid masses of bile salts does not equal

> gallstones. There are

> two types of gallstones, cholesterol stones and calcified " pigment "

> stones. Cholesterol stones are made of crystallized cholesterol, and

> " pigment " stones are made of calcified bile. Plain bile salts are

> neither. Therefore, your test results suggest that those

> little balls were

> formed during the flushing process.

>

I've gotten a bunch more information since starting this thread.

I actually have a copy of the test report and it is very, very ambiguous.

Part of the problem that I had with the test is that while the stones were

very solid when they came out they really broke down after freezing and

thawing. By the time I got the sample stone to the doctors office it had

become a blob of green matter and didn't look like much of a gallstone. The

test results state, " specimen appears to consist of bile acids " . I'm not

even sure that they did a chemical test on the damn thing. So, just more

unknowns.

I got off of the phone with s Moritz about an hour ago. I had a few

questions about the cleansing protocol and thought that it might make sense

to try and find the author of the book I used. Turns out that he lives

about two hours away from me and does phone consulting. www.ener-chi.com

We discussed quite a few things but the bottom line is that he reports that

as the liver empties itself of stones no more debris comes out during the

flushes. If that is true then it would make a strong argument for the fact

that the debris that I'm seeing is actually formed in the liver itself.

Otherwise we would have to theorize that my digestive tract would stop

forming the little balls of bile salts and olive oil over repeated

cleansings.

Time will tell as I continue the process. I will report any info as it

develops.

Ron

[Guest guest]

>> Your arguments are the most persuasive that I've seen but I'm still

inclined

to think that at least a significant portion of the debris that I passed was

garbage that was in my liver and gallbladder. <<

Yes, I understand. However, the only thing I addressed was the evidence

offered by your one analyzed stone, which was not a gallstone, but a mass of

cholesterol.

That leaves us with the same basic issue as before, which is that we don't

know if the masses/stones the " Gall Bladder Flush " programs cause to appear

in the stool are, or are not, passed gallstones.

I tend to believe they are not, because even if the gall bladder flush works

just as it promises to, I can't understand why on earth this wouldn't be

agonizingly painful, how it would cure a diseased or damaged gall bladder,

nor how stones getting lodged in the common bile duct could be avoided. It

flunks the common sense test for me.

That doesn't, of course, " prove " the flushes don't work, either. We don't

KNOW... that's all I'm saying. There is usually plenty of gunk in our

intestines and maybe that's what gets flushed out. Maybe some small

gallstones do find their way out during this process, due to the olive oil

triggering gall bladder contractions. That is, after all, how gallstones

pass with or without the flush.

All I know is that I tried for years to keep my gallbladder, that I suffered

enormously while doing so, and I wish I'd had my damn gallbladder removed

right at the very beginning. I passed MANY stones and the pain, nausea, and

suffering were indescribable ... and yet, they were nothing, truly NOTHING,

compared to the pain I felt when my common bile duct was blocked. I was

literally screaming in pain lying flat out on the floor while I was alone

waiting for the ambulance. There is simply no way I could ever support

anything that might result in that for someone with gall bladder disease.

I definitely believe we can prevent gall bladder disease with healthy diet.

And I'm sure there is a certain level of gallbladder disease that is

reversible. And I also believe that there's a point past which our gall

bladders are so damaged and diseased that they honestly do need to be

removed. And I really think that " gall bladder flushes " either do not work

or, if they do work, are unacceptably dangerous.

Then again, you have to realize I am against all forms of purging - if you

search the archives I'm sure you'll find one of my many rants against them.

The body is not a toxic waste dump and it doesn't need to be brutally

cleansed. Our bodies are capable of amazing feats of balance, and will

maintain healthy homeostasis not just under OPTIMUM circumstances, but as

long as it's possible at all. I believe that we mostly need to just stop

actively harming them, and give them the support they need to do their work.

And when they have been damaged beyond their ability to fix themselves, for

whatever reason, that is exactly what I think that allopathic/conventional

medicine does very, very well and is in many cases exactly what's needed.

There are those who feel that fasting and purging and detoxing and flushing

the body are preferable to allopathic/surgical interventions, and that is of

course their choice. But to me, it seems to perpetuate a sort of mentality

that our bodies are dirty and diseased and, well.... TOXIC. And I just can't

believe that's at all healthy, mentally speaking.

My body is not a toxic waste zone and doesn't need a Superfund Clean Up. <G>

Christie

Caber Feidh ish Deerhounds

Holistically Raising Our Dogs Since 1986

http://www.caberfeidh.com

http://doggedblog.com

[Guest guest]

>> If that is true then it would make a strong argument for the fact

that the debris that I'm seeing is actually formed in the liver itself.

Otherwise we would have to theorize that my digestive tract would stop

forming the little balls of bile salts and olive oil over repeated

cleansings. <<

Well, not really. It might be just crud from your intestinal tract. Look at

the reports of people who do colonic irrigation (something else I'm totally

against, LOL).

Christie

Caber Feidh ish Deerhounds

Holistically Raising Our Dogs Since 1986

http://www.caberfeidh.com

http://doggedblog.com

[Guest guest]

At 11:16 AM 4/27/05 -0700, you wrote:

>Then again, you have to realize I am against all forms of purging - if you

>search the archives I'm sure you'll find one of my many rants against them.

>The body is not a toxic waste dump and it doesn't need to be brutally

>cleansed. Our bodies are capable of amazing feats of balance, and will

>maintain healthy homeostasis not just under OPTIMUM circumstances, but as

>long as it's possible at all. I believe that we mostly need to just stop

>actively harming them, and give them the support they need to do their work.

Christie, thank you very much for writing that - at least now I know that

while I may be in a minority viewpoint, I'm not COMPLETELY nuts for

thinking the same thing. I had an episode about a month ago where I was

trying something new (lots of coconut oil, a test to see how much it really

did help support my thyroid) - there were a few rather disconcerting

effects. Apparently I'd accidentally also started a bit of a liver

flush. While that accidental flush was not necessarily a bad thing in

and of itself, it's certainly not something I would have undertaken on

purpose.

Lesson learned, I cut back on the amount of VCO. Problem solved. I

won't do that again - it just doesn't seem quite right, ya know?

>My body is not a toxic waste zone and doesn't need a Superfund Clean Up. <G>

Hmmmmmmm ... I wouldn't mind getting a little Superfund money, though ...

to support my expensive food habits. That grass-fed meat and milk ain't

cheap.

MFJ

Ideas are funny that way ... you go and let one loose, and suddenly it's

crashing about the place, bashing up against other peoples' heads.

Somebody oughtta control that. Pesky things, ideas.

[Guest guest]

> But to me, it seems to perpetuate a sort of mentality

> that our bodies are dirty and diseased and, well.... TOXIC. And I just

> can't

> believe that's at all healthy, mentally speaking.

Exactly so. I'm not a supporter of the " heroic " model of medicine

myself.

Lynn S.

------

Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky

http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com

http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net

[Guest guest]

I've posted before (over a year ago) about my liver flush experiences. I tried

for years to find out if it was genuine and gave up once I discovered WPF and

solved my problems that way. However, in my experience the liver flush

definitely DOES work in some way - not just my experience but hundreds of others

who post their experiences and results on the curezone liver flush forum. The

liver flush totally transformed my health.

My story is that I was suffering from fatigue, allergies, lots of colds and

terrible period pain in my early twenties (I also had patches of acne on my

temples). I had a blood test done and was told nothing was wrong, that I had

chronic fatigue syndrome and to take vitamin C. A month later, I had a massive

gallbladder attack that left me virtually unable to walk for a week. Well to cut

a long story short, I found out about the liver flush and decided to try it as I

didn't want to have the operation. I did the radical 2 cups of oil with chasers

of lemon juice flush preceded by 3 days of fasting and enemas (so there wasn't

much left in my digestive tract by the time I did the flush).

What came out were hundreds and hundreds of bright emerald green waxy stones

(the olive oil I drank was not green, it was yellow). But that's really beside

the point. My tongue had always been coated and I often suffered from

constipation. The morning the stones started coming out, the coating on my

tongue was green! The same colour as the stones. By the end of the day, my

tongue was clear and pink and I felt like a new person. Within days, people

started commenting on how well I looked - and this included lots of people who

didn't know anything of my story.

I was living in Japan and every year I went home, family and friends would

comment on how thin, tired and pale I looked. The trip home after the flush,

they all said how well I looked (even though I was actually thinner). The

fatigue and allergies disappeared. My skin was clear. My skin colour changed.

My husband and I were both amazed at how supple and soft my skin suddenly became

(from being dry and scaly). My period pain disappeared (it did get worse again

later but it was never as bad and got better once I worked on my hormone

imbalance). I couldn't believe the difference in my health.

So I know the liver flush works but I don't know how. My theory is that the

liver does become congested with semi-solid bile salts and this prevents it from

functioning optimally. I don't believe the waxy green stones are true gall

stones and doctors tell me that true gallstones don't melt/disintegrate. But

perhaps these congealed bile salts eventually calcify into gallstones? I had

follow up tests that showed I still had gallstones. But the fact is my health

had been transformed. So I believe that in amongst the calcified stones were

the green waxy stones which prevented the flow of bile and proper functioning of

the liver.

I have done many liver flushes since then. I had my " stones " lab tested and

they came back as saying " not gallstones " . On the other hand, I've met people on

the Internet who have had more definitive lab tests that say bile salts. I've

been told by a lab worker that to really identify bile salts is not a standard

lab test and takes special chemicals that most labs don't carry. Because he

worked there, he was able to get them to order the chemicals in as they were

curious to analyse his stones. The result was bilirubin, etc. (I can't

remember more clearly than that as this was a few years ago). I also know

people who've released the green waxy stones after eating cream and no citrus so

those of you who are saying it's a result of the olive oil and citrus are

mistaken (it's an old argument that's been refuted many times by chemists who

say this cannot happen in the digestive tract).

I was a vegetarian and believe I caused my gall bladder problems this way.

Liver flushing controlled my attacks but didn't solve the problem. Weston Price

style eating, HCl, low/no grain, Warrior Diet, raw milk etc did solve the

problem (thanks to Heidi who gave lots of great advice at the time!). I haven't

looked back and now have mostly silent stones. Very occasionally I get a twinge

but that's it. Even this pregnancy hasn't made it worse. It took 10 years of

working on this but I made it in the end. So liver flushing does work but I

think you have to move beyond it too. There are loads of people on curezone who

get stuck there in an endless flushing cycle. The problem is a lot of them go

raw vegan which I think exacerbates the problem. But as I said, loads and loads

of people have solved all sorts of health problems through liver flushing. That

doesn't mean it's the only way though.

Christie questioned how it is not painful. It's a weird thing to experience the

writhing agony of a gb attack and yet not to experience that after ingesting

loads of olive oil. Of the hundreds (thousands?) of people who liver flush,

occasionally you get someone who does have a GB attack during their liver flush

and I know of people who've transferred to hospital during a flush. I think a

GB attack is kind of an allergic reaction and occurs when the GB is inflamed.

So maybe when people flush, their GB is not so inflamed. Also they possibly

haven't had wheat etc in the lead up (a trigger of GB attacks in combination

with fatty foods).

So that's my piece. Sorry for the length.

Filippa

p.s. you can see photos of removed gallbladders and their contents here:

http://curezone.com/ig/igallery.asp?d=\liver_gallbladder\

[Guest guest]

That's the role of the epson salts. Magnesium causes muscles to

relax.

--> except plenty of people do the liver flush without the epsom salts. I did

several times.

Filippa

[Guest guest]

>> your one analyzed stone, which was not a gallstone, but a mass of

cholesterol <<

Sorry, sometimes my brain and my fingers are not in harmony. <G> I meant,

bile.

Christie

Caber Feidh ish Deerhounds

Holistically Raising Our Dogs Since 1986

http://www.caberfeidh.com

http://doggedblog.com

[Guest guest]

One thing I forgot to mention in my last liver flush post was about bile. At

the time of my first liver flushes, I was teaching English to a doctor. He said

that off bile is dark green and stinks. My first liver flush, besides all the

waxy green stones, loads of dark green vile-smelling liquid also came out. He

said that fresh bile is pale yellow, gel-like and has no smell. 3 months after

the first liver flush, I did a follow up flush (again drinking 2 cups of olive

oil with chasers of lemon juice following 3 days of fasting and enemas). What

came out was a long long " rope " of pale yellow gel-like liquid that had no

smell. On the very end of this was a few tiny sticky green waxy stones. I

followed the exact same procedures with the liver flush but the first time was

hundreds and hundreds of the waxy stones, the second time was a tiny handful.

We (the doctor and I) concluded that my gallbladder had been blocked with semi

congealed bile (perhaps due to a calcified stone in the next of the GB), the

toxins from this off-bile had been leaching (leeching?) into my blood stream

causing the fatigue and allergies.

Filippa

[Guest guest]

> We (the doctor and I) concluded that my gallbladder had been blocked with semi

congealed bile (perhaps due to a calcified stone in the next of the GB), the

toxins from this off-bile had been leaching (leeching?) into my blood stream

causing the fatigue and allergies.

>

>Filippa

That IS interesting. I've never believed in liver flushed, but I do know the

bile

gets blocked in celiacs a lot (one reason they end up getting their gall

bladders removed). In that case the end of the duct gets blocked, as I wrote

earlier. Forcing the gall bladder to really empty might be a good solution (and

who knows, maybe the liver itself has the same issue with it's ducts, as someone

wrote, I'm not that familiar with anatomy).

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> We (the doctor and I) concluded that my gallbladder had been blocked with semi

congealed bile (perhaps due to a calcified stone in the next of the GB),

--> sorry I meant " neck " of the gallbladder

That IS interesting. I've never believed in liver flushed, but I do know the

bile

gets blocked in celiacs a lot (one reason they end up getting their gall

bladders removed).

--> so perhaps I am gluten intolerant too and that's what brought it on. I've

always assumed it was due to my low fat vegetarian diet.

In that case the end of the duct gets blocked, as I wrote earlier. Forcing the

gall bladder to really empty might be a good solution (and who knows, maybe the

liver itself has the same issue with it's ducts, as someone wrote, I'm not that

familiar with anatomy). (Heidi Jean)

--> I think there are a lot of misconceptions amongst liver flushes. I was

originally told that the oil goes into the gall bladder and washes out the

stones that way! My doctor student soon sorted out my ideas! When I first had my

GB attack I didn't even know the GB existed and assumed my flu had gone into my

liver. But anyway, there is no way I imagined what happened to me. I think my

bile ducts were so congested and my diet was so low fat that when I had the 2

cups of olive oil, it all came spurting out!

Filippa

[Guest guest]

--> I think there are a lot of misconceptions amongst liver flushes.

once again my fingers have gone awry. I mean " amongst liver flushers "

[Guest guest]

hello ron,

i've been following your thread very attentively - i'm fascinated.

a couple of years ago while researching cancer cures for a friend of mine who

was suffering, i discovered hulda clarke's books and websites " curing all

cancers. " i concluded this was not real, but she also had a cleanse protocol

she was advocating that did sound reasonable and her discussion list of hundreds

of " users " testified to it also. i decided to file it away for use at a later

time when everything else was settled and i could afford to focus on me again.

i began thinking about it just as your thread appeared and i wonder if you are

familiar with her cleanse and how it differs from the one you did? if you're

not familiar with hulda clarke, would you mind sharing what this cleanse

protocol you did entailed?

" .....Time will tell as I continue the process. I will report any info as it

develops.... "

and what do you mean by the above? are you not done with your cleanse now? or

are there other components to it?

thanks,

angel

[Guest guest]

hello filippa,

wow ! this cleanse really did wonderful things for you! i'm so happy to hear

it both for your sake and just in general it's great to hear that such strong

results can be achieved with something like this. i wonder if you can help me

understand a few things....?

" ...tried for years to find out if it was genuine and gave up once I discovered

WPF and solved my problems that way... "

does this mean that you no longer do the flushes? wpf stands for the raw milk

thing, right? if so are you saying that drinking raw milk is what's treating

your issues now?

" ... I had a massive gallbladder attack... "

where does it actually hurt with a gallbladder attack? i'm wondering if that's

what i had last month...

" ...I did the radical 2 cups of oil with chasers of lemon juice flush preceded

by 3 days of fasting and enemas (so there wasn't much left in my digestive tract

by the time I did the flush).... "

do you know WHY the pre-cleanse fasting and enemas are necessary? is it

mandatory? why must the digestive tract be empty?

so, this cleanse with oil only cleanses the liver? not the kidneys or the

bowels or the gall bladder?

:...I have done many liver flushes since then... "

how often do you repeat these flushes? and they are still only for the liver?

" ...I was a vegetarian and believe I caused my gall bladder problems this

way... "

what about vegetarianism damages the gall bladder? or causes problems in it?

" ... it took 10 years of working on this but I made it in the end.... "

good job and congratulations !

thanks filippa,

angel