Re: tsh levels and hyper

[Guest guest]

Of course, those things are important and to the best of my ability, I take care of myself th at way. However, I think many doctors are very lazy when it comes to thyroid treatment and do not give clients the support they need, do not listen to us regarding our symptoms, only go by tests, do not aviail themselves of the latest knowledge, do not treat holisticly (sp?), do not work in collaboration with their clients, and operate from a one up position.

Therefore, a lot of times people could be medicated more, sy mptoms could be better and they tend to poo-poo us and tell us we are depressed or we need to lose weight and exercise. This is laziness on their part at times.

steph

[Guest guest]

I AGREE WITH YOU

[Guest guest]

HI Jan--

Just so everyone does need to know is that we CAN get “hyperthyoidism” from being overmedicated. I am not saying Steph is, but if she is showing signs of hyper after increasing thryoid medicine, it’s entirely possible and that can be pretty easily fixed by adjusting the dose.

Sue

WHAT CAUSES HYPERTHYROIDISM? — The most common cause of hyperthyroidism is Graves' disease.

• One or more thyroid nodules (small growths or lumps in the thyroid gland) can sometimes produce too much thyroid hormone (the nodule is then called a " hot nodule " , " toxic nodule " , or " toxic nodular goiter " )

• Painless ( " silent or lymphocytic " ) thyroiditis and postpartum thyroiditis are related autoimmune disorders where the thyroid becomes temporarily inflamed and releases stored hormone into the bloodstream, causing hyperthyroidism. Postpartum thyroiditis may occur several months after delivery. The hyperthyroid symptoms may last for several months, often followed by several months of hypothyroid symptoms, such as fatigue, muscle cramps, bloating and weight gain.

• Subacute (granulomatous) thyroiditis (thought to be caused by a virus) causes a painful, tender, enlarged thyroid gland. The thyroid becomes overactive, but resolves when the viral infection improves.

• Taking too much thyroid hormone by mouth

Graves' disease — Graves' disease results from an interaction between one's genetic makeup (heredity) and the immune system. For reasons that are not understood, the immune system produces an antibody that stimulates the thyroid gland to produce too much thyroid hormone. This is most common in women between the ages of 20 and 40, but can occur at any age in both genders. When Graves' disease occurs, the thyroid gland enlarges (called a goiter) and makes more and more thyroid hormone, resulting in the symptoms listed above.

Some people also develop eye problems (called Graves' ophthalmopathy), such as dry, irritated, or red eyes, and double vision. Others develop swelling behind the eyes that causes the eyes to protrude, although this is less common. In its most severe form, patients with Graves' ophthalmopathy can develop inflammation of the optic nerves, which can result in loss of vision.

A low TSH does not always indicate hyperthyroidism. TSH needs to be interpreted in the light of several other factors. Low TSH, over range Free T3 and greatly over range Free T4 when not on meds does indicate hyper.

Low TSH, low Free T3 and low Free T4, again when not on meds would suggest secondary or central hypothyroidism.

A low TSH when on thyroid meds is not of great concern in itself and is not a very good assessment of thyroid hormone levels. Because of the way thyroid meds are taken in one or two jolts a day, any dose will tend to suppress the TSH.

My TSH was suppressed about 2 or 3 doses ago, but my Free T3 and Free T4 are at just about 65% of their ranges, and I would not know hyper if it bit me in the @$$. . . .

jytdtp wrote:

Steph,

If your TSH is too low, then it’s indicative of hyperthyroidism which can be very dangerous... Symptoms of hyperthyroidism can include irritability or nervousness – there’s tons:

Sue

Hyperthyroidism Symptoms & Signs

• Weight loss

• Increased appetite

• Nervousness

• Restlessness and Irratibility

• Heat intolerance

• Increased sweating

• Fatigue

• Frequent bowel movements

• Menstrual irregularities in women

• Goiter (visibly enlarged thyroid) may be present

Additional symptoms that may be associated with this disease:

• Weakness

• Sleeping difficulty

• Skin - clammy

• Skin blushing/flushing

• Pulse - bounding

• Nausea and vomiting

• Menstruation - absent

• Itching - overall

• Heartbeat sensations

• Hand tremor

• Hair loss

• Diarrhea

• Breast development in men

• Blood pressure - high

• Protruding eyes (exophthalmos)

I would like to know why doctors are freaked out if the TSH is suppressed. Mine was below the low end of the range at .09 (range .40-5.50) What is th e danger? My t3 was mid range and free t4 was a little lower th an mid range. I need to know so I will have information to discuss this with my doctor when I see him, just in case he is going to try to lower my armour. I got off the synthroid, but I am thinking of upping my armour again . Amost 2 weeks ago I upped it by 1/4 gr.(to 2 /14 gr from 2 gr.) and I noticed nothing.

I am fatigued again, am hoarse, etc.

One of my main symptoms is irritability. Does anyone else have this. What do you suggest. could it be time to up the armour 1/4 gr again??

Steph

Brings words and photos together (easily) with

PhotoMail <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/PMall/*http://photomail.mail.yahoo.com> - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

[Guest guest]

Some hyper symptoms can also be caused by

adrenal problems or low iron levels.

-Katy

From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

[mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On

Behalf Of jytdtp

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006

7:10 AM

To:

Texas_Thyroid_Groups

Subject: Re:

tsh levels and hyper

HI Jan--

Just so everyone does need to know is that we CAN get

“hyperthyoidism” from being overmedicated.

[Guest guest]

Yep and both hyper and hypo symptoms have nothing to do with the thyroid at all — once the thyroid is treated though and symptoms persist and dosages have been adjusted, it’s probably best to look at other areas--- diet, exercise, stress, and all the other diseases as well that can make us feel ill. --Sue

Some hyper symptoms can also be caused by adrenal problems or low iron levels.

-Katy

From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On Behalf Of jytdtp

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 7:10 AM

To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

Subject: Re: tsh levels and hyper

HI Jan--

Just so everyone does need to know is that we CAN get “hyperthyoidism” from being overmedicated.

[Guest guest]

What I meant to say here is both hyper and hypon symptoms MAY NOT have anything to do with the thyroid – many diseases and poor daily habits, nutrition, etc. can mimic hypo and hyper. If you are treated properly you can still feel like crap if you don’t eat right, exercise, or have undue stress, and other issues... Hope that makes sense~ sue

Yep  and both hyper and hypo symptoms  have nothing to do with the thyroid at all — once the thyroid is treated though and symptoms persist and dosages have been adjusted, it’s probably best to look at other areas--- diet, exercise, stress, and all the other diseases as well that can make us feel ill. --Sue

Some hyper symptoms can also be caused by adrenal problems or low iron levels.

 

-Katy

 

Yep and both hyper and hypo symptoms have nothing to do with the thyroid at all — once the thyroid is treated though and symptoms persist and dosages have been adjusted, it’s probably best to look at other areas--- diet, exercise, stress, and all the other diseases as well that can make us feel ill. --Sue

Some hyper symptoms can also be caused by adrenal problems or low iron levels.

-Katy

From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On Behalf Of jytdtp

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 7:10 AM

To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

Subject: Re: tsh levels and hyper

HI Jan--

Just so everyone does need to know is that we CAN get “hyperthyoidism” from being overmedicated.

[Guest guest]

Hi Steph,

I agree with you on all accounts. It just would be a shame if no one went past their Thyroid and thyroid meds to “fix’ what ail them is what I mean... I am looking at ALL aspects of my life and my health now, at 48, and trying to add to my chances of feeling better each day, week, month, and year... Yes, of course we need the right meds, but even with them, there can be many other reasons for depression, anxiety, fatigue, and it would be a disservice not to try and “fix” other things in our lives... I hope I am saying this “right” cuz I understand it but not sure if I am explaining it well. I know that I feel crappy when I have to have major dental work, or lose a big client, and then when I have gotten past that I feel well again and it may or may not be related to my thyroid or a med adjustment... It’s the whole picture... And we just pursue thyroid meds then we are limiting ourselves on getting fully well... This is totally just my opinion... I am always looking for new solutions to old problems and can overwhelm some...sorry if I do.

sue

Of course, those things are important and to the best of my ability, I take care of myself th at way. However, I think many doctors are very lazy when it comes to thyroid treatment and do not give clients the support they need, do not listen to us regarding our symptoms, only go by tests, do not aviail themselves of the latest knowledge, do not treat holisticly (sp?), do not work in collaboration with their clients, and operate from a one up position.

Therefore, a lot of times people could be medicated more, sy mptoms could be better and they tend to poo-poo us and tell us we are depressed or we need to lose weight and exercise. This is laziness on their part at times.

steph

[Guest guest]

what would an eleavated temperature be? Basal over 98.2 per Dr. ?

Steph

[Guest guest]

Sue,

I'd look at symptoms, temperature and Free's for hyper. TSH on replacement

is not valid for hyper. Sometime people have two-three days of hyper when

raising their dose and then they are fine. My TSH is 0.01 and has been,

I've NEVER been hyper. But yes, people need to watch for hyper symptoms

that last over 4 days when they do a raise.

Kate

At 07:10 AM 3/8/2006, you wrote:

>HI Jan--

>

>Just so everyone does need to know is that we CAN get “hyperthyoidism”

>from being overmedicated. I am not saying Steph is, but if she is showing

>signs of hyper after increasing thryoid medicine, it’s entirely possible

>and that can be pretty easily fixed by adjusting the dose.

>

>Sue

>

>WHAT CAUSES HYPERTHYROIDISM? ­ The most common cause of hyperthyroidism is

>Graves' disease.

>

> • One or more thyroid nodules (small growths or lumps in the

> thyroid gland) can sometimes produce too much thyroid hormone (the nodule

> is then called a " hot nodule " , " toxic nodule " , or " toxic nodular goiter " )

> • Painless ( " silent or lymphocytic " ) thyroiditis and postpartum

> thyroiditis are related autoimmune disorders where the thyroid becomes

> temporarily inflamed and releases stored hormone into the bloodstream,

> causing hyperthyroidism. Postpartum thyroiditis may occur several months

> after delivery. The hyperthyroid symptoms may last for several months,

> often followed by several months of hypothyroid symptoms, such as

> fatigue, muscle cramps, bloating and weight gain.

> • Subacute (granulomatous) thyroiditis (thought to be caused by a

> virus) causes a painful, tender, enlarged thyroid gland. The thyroid

> becomes overactive, but resolves when the viral infection improves.

> • Taking too much thyroid hormone by mouth

>

>

>Graves' disease ­ Graves' disease results from an interaction between

>one's genetic makeup (heredity) and the immune system. For reasons that

>are not understood, the immune system produces an antibody that stimulates

>the thyroid gland to produce too much thyroid hormone. This is most common

>in women between the ages of 20 and 40, but can occur at any age in both

>genders. When Graves' disease occurs, the thyroid gland enlarges (called a

>goiter) and makes more and more thyroid hormone, resulting in the symptoms

>listed above.

>

>Some people also develop eye problems (called Graves' ophthalmopathy),

>such as dry, irritated, or red eyes, and double vision. Others develop

>swelling behind the eyes that causes the eyes to protrude, although this

>is less common. In its most severe form, patients with Graves'

>ophthalmopathy can develop inflammation of the optic nerves, which can

>result in loss of vision.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>A low TSH does not always indicate hyperthyroidism. TSH needs to be

>interpreted in the light of several other factors. Low TSH, over range

>Free T3 and greatly over range Free T4 when not on meds does indicate hyper.

>

>

>

>Low TSH, low Free T3 and low Free T4, again when not on meds would suggest

>secondary or central hypothyroidism.

>

>

>

>A low TSH when on thyroid meds is not of great concern in itself and is

>not a very good assessment of thyroid hormone levels. Because of the way

>thyroid meds are taken in one or two jolts a day, any dose will tend to

>suppress the TSH.

>

>

>

>My TSH was suppressed about 2 or 3 doses ago, but my Free T3 and Free T4

>are at just about 65% of their ranges, and I would not know hyper if it

>bit me in the @$$. . . .

>

>

>

>jytdtp wrote:

>

>Steph,

>If your TSH is too low, then it’s indicative of hyperthyroidism which can

>be very dangerous... Symptoms of hyperthyroidism can include irritability

>or nervousness – there’s tons:

>Sue

>

>

>

>Hyperthyroidism Symptoms & Signs

>

> • Weight loss

> • Increased appetite

> • Nervousness

> • Restlessness and Irratibility

> • Heat intolerance

> • Increased sweating

> • Fatigue

> • Frequent bowel movements

> • Menstrual irregularities in women

> • Goiter (visibly enlarged thyroid) may be present

> Additional symptoms that may be associated with this disease:

> • Weakness

> • Sleeping difficulty

> • Skin - clammy

> • Skin blushing/flushing

> • Pulse - bounding

> • Nausea and vomiting

> • Menstruation - absent

> • Itching - overall

> • Heartbeat sensations

> • Hand tremor

> • Hair loss

> • Diarrhea

> • Breast development in men

> • Blood pressure - high

> • Protruding eyes (exophthalmos)

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>I would like to know why doctors are freaked out if the TSH is

>suppressed. Mine was below the low end of the range at .09 (range

>.40-5.50) What is th e danger? My t3 was mid range and free t4 was a

>little lower th an mid range. I need to know so I will have information

>to discuss this with my doctor when I see him, just in case he is going to

>try to lower my armour. I got off the synthroid, but I am thinking of

>upping my armour again . Amost 2 weeks ago I upped it by 1/4 gr.(to 2 /14

>gr from 2 gr.) and I noticed nothing.

> I am fatigued again, am hoarse, etc.

>

>One of my main symptoms is irritability. Does anyone else have this. What

>do you suggest. could it be time to up the armour 1/4 gr again??

>

>Steph

>

>

>Brings words and photos together (easily) with

> PhotoMail

>

<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/PMall/*http://photomail.mail.yahoo.com>

> - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Because then they can write scri[pt for a bunch of other drugs and get

their kick backs from drug reps!

Kate

At 09:05 AM 3/8/2006, you wrote:

>Of course, those things are important and to the best of my ability, I

>take care of myself th at way. However, I think many doctors are very lazy

>when it comes to thyroid treatment and do not give clients the support

>they need, do not listen to us regarding our symptoms, only go by tests,

>do not aviail themselves of the latest knowledge, do not treat holisticly

>(sp?), do not work in collaboration with their clients, and operate from a

>one up position.

>Therefore, a lot of times people could be medicated more, sy mptoms could

>be better and they tend to poo-poo us and tell us we are depressed or we

>need to lose weight and exercise. This is laziness on their part at times.

>steph

[Guest guest]

I go to Dr. Ozan. He didn't say anything about my TSH being suppressed

He said I could try raising my armour by 1/4 gr. or I could go on synthroid. I chose the armour increase,. then I talked to him about a week later about going pm the synthroid because I didn't feel any better. that's when I added in the armour , too and felt anxious, etc. I don't think he's that uncomfortable with my tsh suppressed, but I have had several bouts with thyroiditis and I have nodules. These have now shrunk, probably because the tsh is suppressed.

I just want to feel better and I know right now I have fatigue and joint and muscle aching, like hypo. I also have anxiety. Im not sure if it is because of gettiing on and off synthroid in the past few days, if I am still adjusting to the armour increase (which I should have given myself more time on) or because I need more t3 and t4. What I've decided to do is go back to taking it 3 times a day, which I had stopped doing.

I really don't think there are any doctors in SAn that are better than Ozan. I have been to several, including Fetchik. I liked it that she called about labs and sent them in the mail with notes, however, she did not take the clinical picture into account when Iw as going to her. She said she used armour, but she wouldn't. Just my experience. None of them seem to know "cutting edge" medicine when it comes to treating thyroid disorders. I even had considered going to Amen until I heard from others on this list who had been to him. Some of these boutiques act like they understand it, but it doesn't seem like they do.

I have gotten more hope from this list than I've had in years and I have gotten better. Dr. Ozan has been the best so far. Maybe we'll hit a wall and maybe we won't. At least he listens, reads and is willing to push the envelope of conventional medicine.

steph

[Guest guest]

Hyper-like symptoms that occur only when raising dose and then resolve are most likely adrenal. True hyper symptoms, such as elevated temperature are generally not seen in these instances. Kate Guynn wrote: Sue,I'd look at symptoms, temperature and Free's for hyper. TSH on replacement is not valid for hyper. Sometime people have two-three days of hyper when raising their dose and then they are fine. My TSH is 0.01 and has been, I've NEVER been hyper. But yes, people need to watch for hyper symptoms that last over 4 days when they do a raise.Kate

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[Guest guest]

Read ANY label of T4 or T3 —IF YOU TAKE TOO MUCH, you are going to SUFFER from HYPERthyroidic symptoms – I did not say you would become “naturally” hyperthryoirdic — and I stated it was specifically from overmedicating. It’s pretty basic: too much med for hypo makes you HYPER and vice versa just as your blood pressure can become too low, etc.. It’s not a matter of what it’s TRULY called but of how UNnhealthy Uncomfortable AND Dangerous it can become.

Sue

Hyper-like symptoms that occur only when raising dose and then resolve are most likely adrenal. True hyper symptoms, such as elevated temperature are generally not seen in these instances.

Kate Guynn wrote:

Sue,

I'd look at symptoms, temperature and Free's for hyper. TSH on replacement

is not valid for hyper. Sometime people have two-three days of hyper when

raising their dose and then they are fine. My TSH is 0.01 and has been,

I've NEVER been hyper. But yes, people need to watch for hyper symptoms

that last over 4 days when they do a raise.

Kate

[Guest guest]

Oy vEY LOL! For the last time, this “discussion” started about RAISING meds and feeling irritated and specifically ASKING why doctors would CARE about suppressed TSH. And all I said was that too much thyroid med CAN mimic and/or cause hyper symptoms. I can’t say it any plainer than that...

Sue

Sue,

I'd look at symptoms, temperature and Free's for hyper. TSH on replacement

is not valid for hyper. Sometime people have two-three days of hyper when

raising their dose and then they are fine. My TSH is 0.01 and has been,

I've NEVER been hyper. But yes, people need to watch for hyper symptoms

that last over 4 days when they do a raise.

Kate

At 07:10 AM 3/8/2006, you wrote:

>HI Jan--

>

>Just so everyone does need to know is that we CAN get “hyperthyoidism”

>from being overmedicated. I am not saying Steph is, but if she is showing

>signs of hyper after increasing thryoid medicine, it’s entirely possible

>and that can be pretty easily fixed by adjusting the dose.

>

>

>

>Hyperthyroidism Symptoms & Signs

>

> • Weight loss

> • Increased appetite

> • Nervousness

> • Restlessness and Irratibility

> • Heat intolerance

> • Increased sweating

> • Fatigue

> • Frequent bowel movements

> • Menstrual irregularities in women

> • Goiter (visibly enlarged thyroid) may be present

> Additional symptoms that may be associated with this disease:

> • Weakness

> • Sleeping difficulty

> • Skin - clammy

> • Skin blushing/flushing

> • Pulse - bounding

> • Nausea and vomiting

> • Menstruation - absent

> • Itching - overall

> • Heartbeat sensations

> • Hand tremor

> • Hair loss

> • Diarrhea

> • Breast development in men

> • Blood pressure - high

> • Protruding eyes (exophthalmos)

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>I would like to know why doctors are freaked out if the TSH is

>suppressed. Mine was below the low end of the range at .09 (range

>.40-5.50) What is th e danger? My t3 was mid range and free t4 was a

>little lower th an mid range. I need to know so I will have information

>to discuss this with my doctor when I see him, just in case he is going to

>try to lower my armour. I got off the synthroid, but I am thinking of

>upping my armour again . Amost 2 weeks ago I upped it by 1/4 gr.(to 2 /14

>gr from 2 gr.) and I noticed nothing.

> I am fatigued again, am hoarse, etc.

>

>One of my main symptoms is irritability. Does anyone else have this. What

>do you suggest. could it be time to up the armour 1/4 gr again??

>

>Steph

>

>

>Brings words and photos together (easily) with

> PhotoMail

> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/PMall/*http://photomail.mail.yahoo.com>

> - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

AND if the Dr's didn't have their heads up their a$$, they would realize

that we would NEVER

want to be hyper by taking too much medication, just optimal.

Lynn

At 02:00 PM 3/8/2006, you wrote:

Read

ANY label of T4 or T3 ­IF YOU TAKE TOO MUCH, you are going to SUFFER from

HYPERthyroidic symptoms – I did not say you would become “naturally”

hyperthryoirdic ­ and I stated it was specifically from overmedicating.

It’s pretty basic: too much med for hypo makes you HYPER and vice versa

just as your blood pressure can become too low, etc.. It’s not a matter

of what it’s TRULY called but of how UNnhealthy Uncomfortable AND

Dangerous it can become.

Sue

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.2/274 - Release Date: 3/3/2006

[Guest guest]

I do not know for sure, but that sounds about right. But remember that when figuring your basal temps, you take it for 10 days, kick out the top and bottom numbers, then take an average. A single day of elevated temp would be of no significance by itself. Basal temps are but one tool in evaluating thyroid levels. A really good doc looks at labs, clinical observation, his own experience, and patient input. sle816@... wrote: what would an eleavated temperature be? Basal over 98.2 per Dr. ?Steph

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[Guest guest]

It’s so unfortunate so many here have such bad doctors... I can see where the cynicism comes from and the feeling of the need to medicate oneself— I wish everyone could have the right caregiver and can only say, if you need a good endo who will treat you and not the numbers, Dr. Fetchick here in San does that. In fact when my TSH was on the high side she said I was not particularly hypo based on that since my T3 and T4 were good – and we added the T3 — in other words, she is willing to listen, suggest, and help — I am sorry so many don’t have that...

Sue

AND if the Dr's didn't have their heads up their a$$, they would realize that we would NEVER

want to be hyper by taking too much medication, just optimal.

Lynn

At 02:00 PM 3/8/2006, you wrote:

Read ANY label of T4 or T3 ­IF YOU TAKE TOO MUCH, you are going to SUFFER from HYPERthyroidic symptoms – I did not say you would become “naturally” hyperthryoirdic ­ and I stated it was specifically from overmedicating. It’s pretty basic: too much med for hypo makes you HYPER and vice versa just as your blood pressure can become too low, etc.. It’s not a matter of what it’s TRULY called but of how UNnhealthy Uncomfortable AND Dangerous it can become.

Sue

[Guest guest]

Sue,

The original question was about the TSH level. And why do doctors freak

out about it being suppressed. My point to your info about

hyperthyroidism, was simply that TSH doesn't mean anything on

meds. Symptoms, temperature and Free's are what should matter to the

doctor. That was ALL I was trying to say. Yes, high doses can cause

people to go hyper, but on some one on meds the TSH is not what should be

looked at to determine that, that was what I was trying to point out.

Kate

[Guest guest]

This is the reason that the state groups were set-up: to help folks find good thyroid docs. The sad truth is that most docs have their respective heads up their collective @$$es when it comes to the diagnosis and treatment of thyroid disorders. This includes docs who are good for everything else. Dr. Fetchik will go on our next revision of the doctor list, but I have yet to hear from someone who needs to have their TSH suppressed to feel well who has seen her, or from someone who needs a very large dose of Armour. Some docs will not Rx over a certain dose. It has been our experience that many docs will be very nice and accomodating until you approach the threshhold of their

limiting TSH or dosing factor. That is the point at which Dr. Jekyll turns into Mr. Hyde and Banner splits his britches and becomes "The Hulk." The "Big A" in Houston got removed from our list because he will not treat below a TSH of 1. jytdtp wrote: It’s so unfortunate so many here have such bad doctors... I can see where the cynicism comes from and the feeling of the need to medicate oneself— I wish everyone could have the right caregiver and can only say, if you need a good endo who will treat you and not the numbers, Dr. Fetchick here in San does that. In fact when my TSH

was on the high side she said I was not particularly hypo based on that since my T3 and T4 were good – and we added the T3 — in other words, she is willing to listen, suggest, and help — I am sorry so many don’t have that...SueAND if the Dr's didn't have their heads up their a$$, they would realize that we would NEVERwant to be hyper by taking too much medication, just optimal.Lynn

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[Guest guest]

Hi Jan,

What are the criteria for a doctor being on the list. Saying they need to “prescribe a large amount of armour...” seems a bit harsh, but I have no idea if that’s a reasonable requirement for a good doctor..

Sue

This is the reason that the state groups were set-up: to help folks find good thyroid docs. The sad truth is that most docs have their respective heads up their collective @$$es when it comes to the diagnosis and treatment of thyroid disorders. This includes docs who are good for everything else.

Dr. Fetchik will go on our next revision of the doctor list, but I have yet to hear from someone who needs to have their TSH suppressed to feel well who has seen her, or from someone who needs a very large dose of Armour. Some docs will not Rx over a certain dose.

It has been our experience that many docs will be very nice and accomodating until you approach the threshhold of their limiting TSH or dosing factor. That is the point at which Dr. Jekyll turns into Mr. Hyde and Banner splits his britches and becomes " The Hulk. "

The " Big A " in Houston got removed from our list because he will not treat below a TSH of 1.

jytdtp wrote:

It’s so unfortunate so many here have such bad doctors... I can see where the cynicism comes from and the feeling of the need to medicate oneself— I wish everyone could have the right caregiver and can only say, if you need a good endo who will treat you and not the numbers, Dr. Fetchick here in San does that. In fact when my TSH was on the high side she said I was not particularly hypo based on that since my T3 and T4 were good – and we added the T3 — in other words, she is willing to listen, suggest, and help — I am sorry so many don’t have that...

Sue

[Guest guest]

Hi Jan,

What are the criteria for a doctor being on the list. Saying they need to “prescribe a large amount of armour...” seems a bit harsh, but I have no idea if that’s a reasonable requirement for a good doctor..

Sue

This is the reason that the state groups were set-up: to help folks find good thyroid docs. The sad truth is that most docs have their respective heads up their collective @$$es when it comes to the diagnosis and treatment of thyroid disorders. This includes docs who are good for everything else.

Dr. Fetchik will go on our next revision of the doctor list, but I have yet to hear from someone who needs to have their TSH suppressed to feel well who has seen her, or from someone who needs a very large dose of Armour. Some docs will not Rx over a certain dose.

It has been our experience that many docs will be very nice and accomodating until you approach the threshhold of their limiting TSH or dosing factor. That is the point at which Dr. Jekyll turns into Mr. Hyde and Banner splits his britches and becomes " The Hulk. "

The " Big A " in Houston got removed from our list because he will not treat below a TSH of 1.

jytdtp wrote:

It’s so unfortunate so many here have such bad doctors... I can see where the cynicism comes from and the feeling of the need to medicate oneself— I wish everyone could have the right caregiver and can only say, if you need a good endo who will treat you and not the numbers, Dr. Fetchick here in San does that. In fact when my TSH was on the high side she said I was not particularly hypo based on that since my T3 and T4 were good – and we added the T3 — in other words, she is willing to listen, suggest, and help — I am sorry so many don’t have that...

Sue

[Guest guest]

Kate,

If you are HYPO and go on meds and then all of a sudden your TSH is suppressed, you have obviously gone hyper by too much med... That is why they test the levels. Then the hard part comes in — setting aside those levels and looking at the person and how they feel.

Sue

Sue,

The original question was about the TSH level. And why do doctors freak

out about it being suppressed. My point to your info about

hyperthyroidism, was simply that TSH doesn't mean anything on

meds. Symptoms, temperature and Free's are what should matter to the

doctor. That was ALL I was trying to say. Yes, high doses can cause

people to go hyper, but on some one on meds the TSH is not what should be

looked at to determine that, that was what I was trying to point out.

Kate

[Guest guest]

Kate,

If you are HYPO and go on meds and then all of a sudden your TSH is suppressed, you have obviously gone hyper by too much med... That is why they test the levels. Then the hard part comes in — setting aside those levels and looking at the person and how they feel.

Sue

Sue,

The original question was about the TSH level. And why do doctors freak

out about it being suppressed. My point to your info about

hyperthyroidism, was simply that TSH doesn't mean anything on

meds. Symptoms, temperature and Free's are what should matter to the

doctor. That was ALL I was trying to say. Yes, high doses can cause

people to go hyper, but on some one on meds the TSH is not what should be

looked at to determine that, that was what I was trying to point out.

Kate

[Guest guest]

That not true!!! My TSH has be suppressed from the moment I started on

thyroid replacement. I was not hyper. That is the mistake most doctors

make is looking at the TSH saying it's below 2 or it's below 1 your

hyper. They test TSH levels because they have been brain washed into

believing it is a great test, the gold standard. It in no way tells you

want is going on in your blood stream. If you take replacement, you

pituitary isn't going to signal that it needs more or will signal less

often. That is why the doctors should be looking at the Free's, the un

bound hormone in you blood stream when they look at blood test. At that

should not be looked at alone, you and I are agreeing that the way a person

feels should always be looked at.

Kate

At 05:12 PM 3/8/2006, you wrote:

>Kate,

>

>If you are HYPO and go on meds and then all of a sudden your TSH is

>suppressed, you have obviously gone hyper by too much med... That is why

>they test the levels. Then the hard part comes in ­ setting aside those

>levels and looking at the person and how they feel.

>

>Sue

>

>

>

>Sue,

>

>The original question was about the TSH level. And why do doctors freak

>out about it being suppressed. My point to your info about

>hyperthyroidism, was simply that TSH doesn't mean anything on

>meds. Symptoms, temperature and Free's are what should matter to the

>doctor. That was ALL I was trying to say. Yes, high doses can cause

>people to go hyper, but on some one on meds the TSH is not what should be

>looked at to determine that, that was what I was trying to point out.

>

>Kate

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sue,

TSH can SOMETIMES be used effectively as a

diagnostic tool. After that, it is COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS –

especially for someone with Hashi’s. A suppressed TSH does not mean

that you have gone hyper or that you have too much med, although many doctors

believe this. Unfortunately, most doctors do not realize this and feed us

the “TSH needs to remain in a specific range” line. Those

doctors that “get it” test our free T3 and T4 and get those into

the upper part of the ranges, going by our symptoms. They IGNORE TSH.

Luckily for us, people like Starr and have written good books and some

doctors are finally starting to get the message that they’ve been doing

it wrong all these years.

-Katy

From:

Texas_Thyroid_Groups

[mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On

Behalf Of jytdtp

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006

5:12 PM

To:

Texas_Thyroid_Groups

Subject: Re:

tsh levels and hyper

Kate,

If you are HYPO and go on meds and then all of a sudden your TSH is suppressed,

you have obviously gone hyper by too much med... That is why they test the

levels. Then the hard part comes in — setting aside those levels and

looking at the person and how they feel.

Sue