Re: Chris's Warrior Menu

[Guest guest]

Oh... my... God... That is a LOT of calories (and a lot of fat.) Am

I reading this right, Chris? 4739 calories in a day? What is your

resting metabolism rate? And how is your quality of sleep at night?

~Robin

> WARRIOR MEAL

>

> 1 American Spirits smoke.

>

> Course 1

> 1/4 lb Salmon (24 g protein, 10 g fat)

> 2.5 cups (measured raw) steamed Kale (10 g carb)

> 2 T Butter (22 g fat)

> 0.5 tsp CLO (2.25g fat)

>

> Course 2

> 1/3 lb pasture-fed hamburger, crumbled, sauteed in 3 T coconut oil

> with 2 cups veggies (onions, red, yellow, green, and orange bell

> peppers, and 3 cloves of garlic). (40g protein, 62g fat, 12g carb)

>

> Course 3

> Two bowls (1 Quart) chicken soup, Whole Foods, made with stock from

> bones (100g protein, 16g fat, 12g carb)

> 1 tsp CLO (4.5g fat)

> 1 glass red wine (cab/merlot mix) (9g carb)

>

> Mid-course snack: 1 Glass orange juice (2g protein, 26g carb)

>

> Course 4

> Amy's (frozen) gluten-free rice-crust pizza (42g fat, 87g carb,

33g protein)

> 1 glass wine (9g carb)

>

> Dessert

> 1/2 cup Hagen Daz (20g fat, 22g carb, 5g protein)

>

> Closing

> 1 glass red wine, 1 American Spirits smoke (9g carb)

>

> TOTALS:

>

> Undereating phase totals: 144g fat, 56g protein, 4g carb, 1,536

calories

> 84% fat, 15% protein, 1% carb

>

> Warrior Feast totals: 179g fat, 204g protein, 194g carb, 3,203

calories

> 50% fat, 25% protein, 25% carb

>

> Day totals: 323g fat, 260g protein, 198g carb, 4,739 calories

> 61% fat, 22% protein, 17% carbs

[Guest guest]

On 7/18/05, Robin Reese <robin.reese@...> wrote:

> Oh... my... God... That is a LOT of calories (and a lot of fat.) Am

> I reading this right, Chris? 4739 calories in a day? What is your

> resting metabolism rate? And how is your quality of sleep at night?

> ~Robin

Perhaps you weren't around during the original WD thread, LOL! That is

not unusual for Mr. Masterjohn and other (male) Warrior Dieters, or

pigs as Suze once noted <g>.

As for the fat intake WD'ers aren't the only ones where it ranges

pretty high. I know Christie () is up there in the 80% range and

I think (Idol) is pretty high too. I'm sure there are others but

their names escape me at the moment.

--

" I bind myself for life; I have chosen;

from now on my aim will be not to

search for someone who will please me,

but to please the one I have chosen... "

André Maurois

[Guest guest]

By the way, I got my resting metabolism rate taken shortly after I fell ill

a year or so ago (celiac) and was shocked to see how low it was. I'm a 53

year old woman 115lbs and 5' 6 " with a lot of muscle tone and my RMR then

and now is only 1350 calories/day (!) When I see that the young can

eat almost 5000 calories it just blows my mind.

I'm trying to recover from serious illness (my small intestine's all scarred

and I have no villi) so I need a lot of nutrients to help with the repair

but can't eat more than about 1500 calories max -- that's with my 45 minute

medium paced walk after dinner.

It's not simply youth that enables a body to repair more quickly and

thoroughly but youth's need for more calories; one can't help but be getting

a lot more in the way of nutrients with that much more food.

By the way, here's an easy way to find out where you can get tested:

http://www.healthetech.com/dlrlocator/index.php

~Robin

[Guest guest]

On 7/18/05, Robin Reese <robin.reese@...> wrote:

> By the way, I got my resting metabolism rate taken shortly after I fell ill

> a year or so ago (celiac) and was shocked to see how low it was. I'm a 53

> year old woman 115lbs and 5' 6 " with a lot of muscle tone and my RMR then

> and now is only 1350 calories/day (!) When I see that the young can

> eat almost 5000 calories it just blows my mind.

While it might work for in general that amount of calories does

not work outside of the dynamics of the Warrior Diet, which includes

exercise and undereating. To just attempt that alone would be a recipe

for weight gain for most of us.

It should also be noted that the male WD'ers, at least those that were

posting, ate considerably more the the female WD'ers. Which can

sometimes be problematic because if you don't have a true FEAST meal,

then the WD does not work for most folks.

> I'm trying to recover from serious illness (my small intestine's all scarred

> and I have no villi) so I need a lot of nutrients to help with the repair

> but can't eat more than about 1500 calories max -- that's with my 45 minute

> medium paced walk after dinner.

>

>

>

> It's not simply youth that enables a body to repair more quickly and

> thoroughly but youth's need for more calories; one can't help but be getting

> a lot more in the way of nutrients with that much more food.

Yes getting that amount of food without any attendant problems is a

great advantage. Unlike say the approach of Aajonus Vonderplanitz

which is if you aren't throwing up you aren't eating enough (at least

last I checked). Oh brother.

--

" I bind myself for life; I have chosen;

from now on my aim will be not to

search for someone who will please me,

but to please the one I have chosen... "

André Maurois

[Guest guest]

I eat a lot of fat too but, as I said, with a calorie allotment of less than

1500 I don't want to spend it all on fatty acids. I know they're good and I

eat a lot of 'em but I need vitamins and minerals big-time. I'm trying to

rebuild a broken system. Had malnutrition over a year ago.

On that note, you might be interested to know that prior to having an ulcer

two years ago that turned out to be one of the triggers for celiac syndrome

and then a subsequent proven celiac diagnosis, I was eating about 3 or 4

times as many calories/day and not putting on a pound of weight. Of course

I was a lot more active but I was the same exact size and weight I am now

and very close to the same age.

I was able to eat almost as much as in a day. I didn't know it at the

time (because I had no symptoms) but I wasn't absorbing much of anything and

my guts were getting more and more wrecked from gluten and casein. All that

food and I was malnourished. It happened so slowly that I didn't notice.

And I have a little parable I'd like to share. I hope that is

listening:

" If you put a frog in a pot of boiling water he will jump out but if you put

a frog in a pot of cold water and heat it to boiling he will die.

Get it? That was me..

~Robin

[Guest guest]

Hi Robin,

I'm guessing that my calorie range is between 3500 and 4500 on

average. I have no idea what my resting metabolism is, but since I

lift weights in part for the purpose of gaining muscle mass (as well

as bone mass, bone density, muscle density, and neural wiring), and, I

read and write a lot, and tend to spend most of my free and non-free

time uncontrollably thinking, which, although seemingly never taken

into account by anyone, probably requires a significant increase in

both nutrient and energy input (after all, you can build a neural

synapse out of thin air), I need to eat significantly higher than my

requirements so I have inputs for growth.

Don't forget I did *two* workouts today. The kettlebell was light--

for a kettlebell workout. But kettlebell workouts are almost by

definition intense. And I did squats today, which I think are the

highest-calorie-burning exercise as well as the ones that will require

the most nutritional and caloric intake after-the-fact for repair.

I'm 5'7 and a little under 175 lbs. That puts me at a borderline 26

body mass index, as worthless a datum as that is, and 24 is considered

" overweight. " Since I have more or less an eight-pack (I have a

little ab definition and good definition in the extra two-pack under

the packs, good serratus anterior definition, etc), I think I'm doing

allright for body fat. However, I would like to trim some fat off my

abs so they are more ripped, and trim some fat off from my kidney

area, which has a little accumulation.

However, it is my experience that eating less (which only ever happens

from exhaustion or apathy) will do very little to relieve my fat

stores but will hurt my muscle mass much quicker.

Why you think you would " waste " your calories on fatty acids to forgo

" nutrients " is confusing. Notice that egg yolks are mostly fatty

acids (about 2/3 fat and 1/3 protein), but are super-loaded with

nutrients, containing nearly every important nutrient except vitamin

C. If you want to increase your nutrient-density, it probably

couldn't hurt to include 6-9 raw egg yolks in your diet (just throw

the whites away-- I do it Mike style, and open the egg over my

hand, which is over the trash, roll the yolk back and forth on my

fingers till the white falls clean in the trash, and pop into my

mouth. The white is water-soluble so washes off with plain water. Be

advised that if you do this in a cafeteria you get funny looks, but

also get the opportunity for nutritional prosyletizing, as you face a

bottomless abyss of curiosity in the eyes of your interrogators.)

Raw cheese is also loaded with fat but is a super-health food. Some

of the nutrients are doubtlessly lost in the weigh, but those

associated with the fat and casein fractions are super-concentrated.

I find that if I eat it with two tablets of HCl, I can eat a half

pound very easily with no digestive upset. I get diarrhea if I try

eating a half pound of cheese with no HCl.

Also note that they only truly empty calories in my menu were the

sugar in the ice cream and the rice crust of the pizza, both carb

foods. All of my fat foods were very nutritious. Virgin coconut oil

is quite nutritious. More importantly, it's good for the gut, as it

can supply energy without feeding microbes, and also has a toxic

effect to the microbes. Butter contains butyrate which is helpful in

healing the gut cells.

I generally sleep through the night, but I am prone to nightmares,

whether on the WD or not. The WD helps me sleep in general, because

if I don't eat enough before bed I can't sleep. I think this is

because I have some sort of problem with an overactive sympathetic

nervous system and the overeating helps shut it down.

Yet I've found myself sluggish in the days with no caffeine, so I'm

wondering how this jibes with my overactive SNS, or maybe it is

changing. In the last couple days eating totally ketogenically during

the day I've felt better, and with the addition of seaweed tea during

the day today, I felt even more energetic after I was into the second

pint. Perhaps my iodine intake has been low and the seaweed tea is

helping.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>>>in general that amount of calories does

not work outside of the dynamics of the Warrior Diet, which includes

exercise and undereating. To just attempt that alone would be a recipe

for weight gain for most of us. >

>>>>

Okay so this is what I'm just plain not understanding about the Warrior

Diet: any of these sorts of dieting schedules, from the old grapefruit diet

to this one, depend on something other than the simple intake and outgo of

calories.

That's fine. But to me that is *also* saying that, since you're not really

" getting " the calories you actually eat, why do you think you are getting

the nutrients?

And if you're not getting the nutrients, why bother?

And unless you're Lance Armstrong this week, exercise ain't gonna put a dent

in that many calories.

~Robin

[Guest guest]

[chris] <I tend to spend most of my free and non-free

> time uncontrollably thinking, which, although seemingly never taken

> into account by anyone, probably requires a significant increase in

> both nutrient and energy input>>>

[robin] I agree! The brain uses the most calories by far. I think

digestion is next and then your liver? I think that exercise might

use among the smallest percentage of calories per day.>>>

> [chris] Why you think you would " waste " your calories on fatty

acids to forgo " nutrients " is confusing.>>>

[robin] I over-stated there. I think I eat just the right amount of

fat for my daily balance. I eat at least 3 egg yolks day -- usually

more -- and have at least a tablespoon of coconut oil and a

tablespoon of ghee or bacon fat and also, let's see, about a

tablespoon of olive oil and/or fish oil. What is it, 100

calories/TBSPN? so that would be 600 calories right there. Half my

daily allotment and that doesn't count the ground buffalo and other

meat (tonight it was ultra-rich sockeye salmon) so i think I think

I'm getting enough fats. Add a glass of wine and one fruit and I;m

trying to remember to have a cup of rice because I think I mus be

needing at least some starch (and I eat a LOT of fermented

vegetables and drinks) and that's it. Probiotics containing foods

and drinks have surprisingly many calories I'm told. I can't do

dairy and grains. You see it goes pretty fast when you start with

this many chips. Oops. I also have a powdered mino acid food by

Thorne called MediClear and that has 150 calories or so. That's what

I blend the raw egg yolks into. I have to cram extra supplements

into food and vice versa wherever I can and figure it helps to take

the supplement along with the food it's most like.

>[chris] I generally sleep through the night, but I am prone to

>nightmares, whether on the WD or not. The WD helps me sleep in

>general, because if I don't eat enough before bed I can't sleep.>>>

[robin] Nightmares will burn a lot of calories! I also *have* to eat

a little something before bed but absolutely can't imagine lying

down after a big meal as my system struggles so hard with digestion

and all the enzymes and HCl I have to take as it is. I need gravity!

My bedtime snack is where I'll put the fruit. I'll have a ripe

banana and/or a tablespoon of something called Fruiteze (which I

swear by!)it's a mixture of ground together raisins, prunes, and

figs I think (or maybe it's dates..) absolutely no additives or

sulphur or anything. Their website is www.fruiteze.com The stuff is

amazing as it really keeps your bowels moving right. Anyway, I find

that eating a starchy fruit along with taking some 5-htp and/or

tryptophan helps me sleep.

I wish you could get checked for your resting metabolism rate. I

wish I'd had mine done when I was able to eat so incredibly much and

not gain weight. If my RMR had been low but my ability to take in

extra calories had been high like it was, I might have suspected a

digestive problem.. hint hint.. did anyone say gluten?

It sounds good at first blush to be able to eat a lot and not put on

extra pounds but in ancient warrior times I think it would have been

maybe better to be able to get by on very little -- the opposite of

what we value now.

And I'm making that iodine tea tomorrow. Good night!

~Robin

[Guest guest]

> [chris]However, I would like to trim some fat off my

> abs so they are more ripped, and trim some fat off from my kidney

> area, which has a little accumulation.

>

> However, it is my experience that eating less (which only ever

happens

> from exhaustion or apathy) will do very little to relieve my fat

> stores but will hurt my muscle mass much quicker.>>>

Hi Chris. I'm not asleep yet. I forgot to tell you something! I

wanted to comment about this part you said above. I have to give

some background first so bear with me please. Before I got sick with

the h. pylori caused ulcer that triggered the so-called celiac

syndrome I suddenly started losing about 5 pounds a week. I was too

sick to eat a million calories like I had been doing and so no

matter what I ate I got skinnier and skinnier. I lost almost 20

pounds in a month, was down to almost 100 pounds and was the most

scared I've ever been in my life. That was almost 2 years ago. I

didn't trust the medical community after they dusted me with about 6

broad spectrum antibiotics in 5 weeks and so I went to the internet -

- God help us! I thought I had candida and also a bacterial

infection and I stumled on the Specific Carb Diet and also candida

diets.. I combined the two and within weeks I felt a little better.

I thought that the SCD was causing the bacteria to die or at least

leave me alone so I kept on the diet for over a year but actually,

without knowing it, I had become gluten free and THAT'S why I was

suddenly able to stop the scary weight loss and eventually maintain

my weight.

I'm telling you all this information because it applies to what you

said about measurements. When I was healthy and buff I could never

get rid of the weight around my middle no matter how skinny I'd get.

Now that I'm gluten-free and back to my regular weight, my bust and

hips are the same measurement as before 35 " but my waist is 3 inches

smaller 26 " which is amazing, a little perquisite in the middle of

all this doom! My guess is that maybe that weight around my middle

wasn't exactly fat stores but was instead some other crud that was

just hardened in there from gluten gumming up the works or who

knows. (I have to admit here that I did quite a few enemas in the

beginning of this wreck because I thought I was ridding myself of

candida and bacteria I was so clueless!) I did cleansing diets too,

and even the whole raw juice thing briefly. Whoever got their hands

on me, that's the diet I'd try. Anyway, I think I was generally

constipated before my crash but just had nothing to compare it to; I

mean, before these groups and digestive discussions, I don't think I

talked about a bowel movement even once and then suddenly I'm on all

these crazy curezone forums and sheesh.. you know.. ;-)

Anyway, your comment about the waist measurement brought it all back

to me and I just had to share it with you. It's been over a year and

despite everything, my measurements still dent in the middle. It

sure seems like it's going to stay that way too.

~Robin

Ps. BTW, as long as you're taking a break from gluten, why

not eschew dairy for awhile as well? (Don't you love that word..)

[Guest guest]

>

> And I have a little parable I'd like to share. I hope that

is

> listening:

>

>

>

> " If you put a frog in a pot of boiling water he will jump out but

if you put

> a frog in a pot of cold water and heat it to boiling he will die.

>

>

>

> Get it? That was me..

>

> ~Robin

>

Hi Robin:

I was listening. I knew it. Do you know what? We have an interesting

expression in Portuguese ...

You certainly know what a water bath is. Ok, a very gradual way of

cooking something. In Portuguese you say " cozinhar em banho-maria " ,

literally " to cook something in a water bath " . I think it comes from

French " bain-marie " . So, when you are deceiving someone so slowly

that he or she doesn't realize the deceit, you are said to

be " cooking that person in a water bath. " (Like the poor frog.) When

he or she realizes they were deceived all the way, it may be too late

to escape from the evil.

Cheers,

José

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>Mid-course snack: 1 Glass orange juice (2g protein, 26g carb)

>

>Course 4

>Amy's (frozen) gluten-free rice-crust pizza (42g fat, 87g carb, 33g protein)

>1 glass wine (9g carb)

>

>Dessert

>1/2 cup Hagen Daz (20g fat, 22g carb, 5g protein)

I think you've just conclusively established that you're eating more than

enough carbs to avoid slipping into ketogenesis.

-

[Guest guest]

-

>I think (Idol) is pretty high too. I'm sure there are others but

>their names escape me at the moment.

Yeah, I eat a LOT of fat, and since I do genuinely eat low-carb, my

percentage could be higher yet.

-

[Guest guest]

On 7/19/05, Idol <Idol@...> wrote:

> Chris-

>

> >Mid-course snack: 1 Glass orange juice (2g protein, 26g carb)

> >

> >Course 4

> >Amy's (frozen) gluten-free rice-crust pizza (42g fat, 87g carb, 33g

> protein)

> >1 glass wine (9g carb)

> >

> >Dessert

> >1/2 cup Hagen Daz (20g fat, 22g carb, 5g protein)

>

> I think you've just conclusively established that you're eating more than

> enough carbs to avoid slipping into ketogenesis.

Oh yes, my Course 4 brought me from low-carb to not low-carb for sure.

But would one meal over the course of an hour or so dictate how the

body would metabolize for the next 23? How long does one have to eat

low-carb for in order to become ketogenic? Shouldn't we account for

the fact that much of those carbs might not be burned off for energy

since my glycogen stores were probably depleted?

Not that my goal is to eat ketogenically, just making an observation,

but typically my diet would be a little lower in carbs as I had said

above. (Pizzas a sometimes thing, and ice cream too. The OJ I only

drank because I got a sugar craving after all the chicken soup--

perhaps because it was so high-protein low-fat.)

Chris

[Guest guest]

On 7/19/05, Robin Reese <robin.reese@...> wrote:

> [robin] Nightmares will burn a lot of calories! I also *have* to eat

> a little something before bed but absolutely can't imagine lying

> down after a big meal as my system struggles so hard with digestion

> and all the enzymes and HCl I have to take as it is. I need gravity!

Well I was up for a while before I went to bed. If the meal is large

enough, its effects last long enough before I go to bed to help me

sleep. Otherwise I need something right before bed. I think when I

first started the WD, my sleeping problems got a lot worse, but this

was probably because the WD straightened out some blood sugar problems

as I was on it over time.

I think it's also because I used to end my Warrior Feasts with a 1/2

gallon of unfermented raw milk, which, despite my denial, was causing

me some serious digestive problems. I also tended to eat potatoes a

lot in my overeating phase, and I've found that milk and potatoes

don't go well together for me. I find dairy is best tolerated by

itself for me.

> I wish you could get checked for your resting metabolism rate. I

> wish I'd had mine done when I was able to eat so incredibly much and

> not gain weight. If my RMR had been low but my ability to take in

> extra calories had been high like it was, I might have suspected a

> digestive problem.. hint hint.. did anyone say gluten?

I've suspected the same, but, well, I already *know* I have gut

issues. Thankfully, they're not very bad right now, and used to be

worse.

> It sounds good at first blush to be able to eat a lot and not put on

> extra pounds but in ancient warrior times I think it would have been

> maybe better to be able to get by on very little -- the opposite of

> what we value now.

I'm sure that's true-- which is what the Warrior Diet is about-- but

as posted, the Roman Warriors ate as much as they could

possibly eat for hours for their last meal before the fight-- which is

what the Warrior Diet is about!

> And I'm making that iodine tea tomorrow. Good night!

Good morning. :-)

Chris

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>Oh yes, my Course 4 brought me from low-carb to not low-carb for sure.

> But would one meal over the course of an hour or so dictate how the

>body would metabolize for the next 23?

Yes, I'd say almost definitely. Meals send complex hormonal messages which

lead to more hormonal messages and more and more and so on. Not to mention

that many chains of events take a long time to play out. Atkins types

maintain, for example, that drinking even a small amount of alcohol shuts

off fat burning for 18 hours or more, sometimes up to two ro three

days. And your body gets habituated to burning what you give it, so when

you give it a bunch of carbs, it wants more carbs and will avoid

fat-burning even when it's not immediately getting carbs.

> How long does one have to eat

>low-carb for in order to become ketogenic?

My understanding is that it can take a few days to really kick in, which is

one reason among many that I'm highly skeptical of the idea of cycling on

and off constantly.

>Shouldn't we account for

>the fact that much of those carbs might not be burned off for energy

>since my glycogen stores were probably depleted?

No, I don't think so. Glycogen stores are replenished all but

automatically and very easily.

Also, I know one of Hofmekler's main goals is to maximize glycogen storage,

but my understanding is that, in the larger scheme of things, glycogen

storage just isn't all that elastic. It makes much more sense to me to

adapt the body to burning fat for energy, which can provide energy much

more smoothly and for much longer periods of time.

>The OJ I only

>drank because I got a sugar craving after all the chicken soup--

>perhaps because it was so high-protein low-fat.)

No doubt in large part because of all the damage I did during my years of

eating crap, I have to be very careful to eat plenty of fat at every meal

or I'll have similar problems. That's why even my pepper & onion soup had

a layer of fat on top. I never pour off the fat in soups, at least not

when it's reasonably saturated. Chicken soups, I guess, are a different

matter.

-

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>Well I was up for a while before I went to bed. If the meal is large

>enough, its effects last long enough before I go to bed to help me

>sleep. Otherwise I need something right before bed.

See, right there you have a solid indicator that (a) something's not quite

right with your metabolism, and ( you're eating too many carbs with

dinner, pushing your body to burn sugar, store fat and resist burning

fat. With huge meals like the ones you eat for dinner, there's no basic

caloric justification for getting hungry before bed.

I sort of recommend that you read _Mastering Leptin_, by Byron s. I

say " sort of " because along with a lot of good information, it has some

outright junk and a number of inconsistencies, but if you're willing to do

a bit of heavy lifting, it's well worth your while.

-

[Guest guest]

Hi

Brilliant menu! Please give ingredients, amounts and methods for the

seaweed tea.

>

>Don't forget I did *two* workouts today. The kettlebell was light--

>for a kettlebell workout. But kettlebell workouts are almost by

>definition intense. And I did squats today, which I think are the

>highest-calorie-burning exercise as well as the ones that will require

>the most nutritional and caloric intake after-the-fact for repair.

>

>

Well, you were so specific with kcalories in, how about an estimate for

the workouts in terms of energy spent. I think it's safe to say you

were burning mucho carbs. And that's another thing: you asked about

high intensity work on ketogenic diets, so please go get some ketostix

and see if you are ketogenic; so, how does the workout go along with the

diet. I tend to feel weaker doing strength while in ketosis, Ron said

the same but he increased gains nonetheless.

>I'm 5'7 and a little under 175 lbs. That puts me at a borderline 26

>body mass index, as worthless a datum as that is, and 24 is considered

> " overweight. " Since I have more or less an eight-pack (I have a

>little ab definition and good definition in the extra two-pack under

>the packs, good serratus anterior definition, etc), I think I'm doing

>allright for body fat. However, I would like to trim some fat off my

>abs so they are more ripped, and trim some fat off from my kidney

>area, which has a little accumulation.

>

BMI is stupid and useless. Sheesh, body composition is the only way to

know anything. BMI makes all body builders obese. Yeah, right.

So do you feel any different gluten free?

Deanna

[Guest guest]

On 7/19/05, Robin Reese <robin.reese@...> wrote:

> Okay so this is what I'm just plain not understanding about the Warrior

> Diet: any of these sorts of dieting schedules, from the old grapefruit diet

> to this one, depend on something other than the simple intake and outgo of

> calories.

The Atkins Diet does too: people eat more calories but lose bodyfat.

The Calorie Crowd can't take it (so they ignore it), but the fact is

that every diet, even if it's not a diet, involves more than simple

intake of calories. Output, I'm not so sure. Noone said that output

of calories remained the same on the WD.

> That's fine. But to me that is *also* saying that, since you're not really

> " getting " the calories you actually eat, why do you think you are getting

> the nutrients?

Well insofar as ketogenesis is involved in the undereating phase-- and

ketogenesis *does* increase during straight fasting, and I'm guessing

increases during undereating if you aren't eating sufficient

carbohydrate for energy demands, not sure -- then you would not " get "

the calories in the sense that you would absorb the macronutrients but

not use them efficiently, so I would expect the micronutrients to be

absorbed as well as the macronutrients are *absorbed*-- not as poorly

as they are used.

But then, you are assuming a constant calorie output, which is an

invalid assumption. If it's true that the overeating meal will help

boost the resting metabolic rate, and if it's true that undereating

will help enhance the action of the thyroid/adrenaline team by

suppressing their opponent, insulin, then the output of calories is

probably considerably higher on the WD.

And finally, who said I'm not gaining weight? My life revolves around

gaining weight! (Well, maybe not " revolves. " )

2 1/2 years ago I weighed 134. Then I entered a gym and discovered

animal fat. At the moment I weigh 167. And I can see *more* of my

abs than when I was 134, so my body fat percentage might be lower.

About a year ago, I made it up to 162 with the help of a month of

creatine, and was excited having never weighed that much but then lost

it all to 155 when I stopped taking it. (I've experimented with

creatine twice, and every time I find that I gain weight quickly and

lose it all when I stop taking it.) Now I'm supplement-free and weigh

more than I've ever weighed even on creatine. So yeah, I'm gaining

weight!

> And if you're not getting the nutrients, why bother?

If I'm not getting the nutrients when I eat a lot, I'm not getting

them when I eat less, best I can tell. I don't know what 's

talking about with eating more on the WD. It's possible I do, but

even if I don't do the WD I still eat enough to make your eyes pop

out. Off the WD, I generally eat 4 meals and a couple snacks. A

typical meal would have been something like 1/2 lb hamburger on two

pieces whole rye toast with butter with 6 pieces of bacon and a half

an onion sauteed in the bacon fat and 2 cups of steamed kale with 1 or

2 tbsp of butter. A pre-workout snack would be 6 egg yolks blended

with 2 tbsp coconut oil and 1/4 cup maple syrup, and a post-workout

snack would be a half pound of raw cheese and 1/4 cup maple syrup.

> And unless you're Lance Armstrong this week, exercise ain't gonna put a

> dent

> in that many calories.

I doubt that's true if you are doing heavy weight lifting. In that

case, not only are you burning the calories in the exercise, but you

are setting up yourself to take a significant portion of what would be

energy for the next 3-5 days for rebuild and growth of the muscle,

bone, and nerve tissue involved. So if I do squats one day, and send

my back, butt, and legs into growth phase for five days, and then I do

bench press with some other upper body exercises the next day, and

send my whole upper body into growth phase for the next 3 days or so,

then I could keep my whole body in growth phase, where it is

detracting from energy to use for repair, constantly by hitting the

gym about three times per week.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>About a year ago, I made it up to 162 with the help of a month of

>creatine, and was excited having never weighed that much but then lost

>it all to 155 when I stopped taking it. (I've experimented with

>creatine twice, and every time I find that I gain weight quickly and

>lose it all when I stop taking it.) Now I'm supplement-free and weigh

>more than I've ever weighed even on creatine. So yeah, I'm gaining

>weight!

I certainly can't vouch for this information, but I've read that creatine

monohydrate, the standard form, will do that to you, whereas creatine ethyl

ester, which you take in much lower doses but which is absorbed and

utilized much more efficiently, will cause you to gain muscle more slowly

but will give you real muscle gains that actually stick (assuming you keep

working out, anyway).

-

[Guest guest]

On 7/19/05, Robin Reese <robin.reese@...> wrote:

> I'm telling you all this information because it applies to what you

> said about measurements. When I was healthy and buff I could never

> get rid of the weight around my middle no matter how skinny I'd get.

> Now that I'm gluten-free and back to my regular weight, my bust and

> hips are the same measurement as before 35 " but my waist is 3 inches

> smaller 26 " which is amazing, a little perquisite in the middle of

> all this doom!

Wow, that's a pretty youthful figure. Congratulations on your curves.

My waist is, iirc, 29 " . However, a 29 " pair of pants I wouldn't even

be able to button. I think that might be because of that

butt-acquisition thing than weight lifting enabled. I have the same

problem with shirts. A 15.5 " neck shirt will fit me perfectly in the

waist, but I can't even button the top button. I don't mean it's

suffocatingly tight, I mean that the collar just pops open if I try to

button it half-way. But anything larger than that in the neck is too

large in the waist. For my pants, I don't mind, because I prefer them

baggy.

>My guess is that maybe that weight around my middle

> wasn't exactly fat stores but was instead some other crud that was

> just hardened in there from gluten gumming up the works or who

> knows.

Well there are two issues for me. First, what I was talking about

before *is* fat. I know because I can feel it. But there is a second

issue, which is that, even though my abs are low enough in fat to seem

some definition, when I stand up straight with my shoulders back but

do not contract my abs, I have something of a gut. This appears to

result from a protrusion just below my abdominal muscles and perhaps

partly in my lower abdominal muscles that causes my abdominals to take

on a general shape of slanting outward where the lowest point is most

outward.

After reading the article on abs by the author of _How to Eat, Move

and Be Healthy_ in Mercola's newsletter a few days ago, I believe this

is probably due to whatever fungi and other crud are stuck in my

intestines.

> Ps. BTW, as long as you're taking a break from gluten, why

> not eschew dairy for awhile as well? (Don't you love that word..)

*horrified face* No! I'm... I'm just not ready for it yet. I've been

eschewing unfermented dairy for a while now, and now I will eschew cow

dairy and use sheep dairy instead. Raw cheese is lactose-free, and I

think the sheep milk will take care of the problem with the variant of

casein that tends to provoke immune reactions (found in certain modern

breeds of cows), so I'll see how that goes first.

Chris

[Guest guest]

On 7/19/05, Idol <Idol@...> wrote:

> Chris-

>

> >Well I was up for a while before I went to bed. If the meal is large

> >enough, its effects last long enough before I go to bed to help me

> >sleep. Otherwise I need something right before bed.

>

> See, right there you have a solid indicator that (a) something's not quite

> right with your metabolism, and ( you're eating too many carbs with

> dinner, pushing your body to burn sugar, store fat and resist burning

> fat. With huge meals like the ones you eat for dinner, there's no basic

> caloric justification for getting hungry before bed.

Well I already know something isn't quite right with my metabolism.

But what I was saying was if the meal *wasn't* a big one like those.

I just went back on the WD a couple days ago after maybe 9 months or

so off from it. What I'm saying is that if I don't have a warrior

feast, I need to eat something directly before bed. If I have a

warrior feast, I can go an hour or two without eating before bed.

> I sort of recommend that you read _Mastering Leptin_, by Byron s. I

> say " sort of " because along with a lot of good information, it has some

> outright junk and a number of inconsistencies, but if you're willing to do

> a bit of heavy lifting, it's well worth your while.

Thanks, I'll keep it in mind.

Chris

[Guest guest]

On 7/19/05, Deanna Wagner <hl@...> wrote:

> Brilliant menu! Please give ingredients, amounts and methods for the

> seaweed tea.

I'll make another thread on it, but you'll want Mike 's input on

it as he is the master.

> Well, you were so specific with kcalories in, how about an estimate for

> the workouts in terms of energy spent. I think it's safe to say you

> were burning mucho carbs. And that's another thing: you asked about

> high intensity work on ketogenic diets, so please go get some ketostix

> and see if you are ketogenic; so, how does the workout go along with the

> diet. I tend to feel weaker doing strength while in ketosis, Ron said

> the same but he increased gains nonetheless.

I felt more powerful at the gym, and like I had less endurance with my

subsequent kettlebell workout. However, I did the k-bell workout

after doing squats at the gym!

Although, I should say that consuming raw egg yolks and some source of

vitamin A together with coconut oil generally seems to increase my

power at the gym. I think the cholesterol and vitamin A combo help

increase steroidogenesis. I should add, though, that since dumping

the maple syrup in this elixir and eating low-carb in the day I think

it's even better. Insulin, after all, is the anti-adrenaline.

> BMI is stupid and useless. Sheesh, body composition is the only way to

> know anything. BMI makes all body builders obese. Yeah, right.

I like the BMIs because I can see how much extra weight I have for my

height. It's a badge of honor to be " overweight " with a six-pack, but

I'll know I've achieved a lot when I'm " obese " ! Lol!

Reminds me of the time I went to the doctor and the PA or whatever she

is weighed me, and said, " Oh good, you've lost five pounds! " And I

was thinking, " Yeah, I had diarrhea every day for the last week,

that's great! Do I look fat to you? " I don't remember whether I said

anything or not, but when people talk about their weight as if it is

important in this type of way, it really makes me lose respect for

their intelligence. Like, how can you consider *weight* as an

isolated variable and important indicator of health?

I talked to this kid in the gym yesterday who is on some horrid diet

from a magazine (I didn't say anything, first time meeting him, but

I'll warn him next time) and is trying to lose 20 lbs or something.

He's doing strength training, and he wants to gain muscle, but he's

talking about how he weighs 150-something and his ideal weight is

130-something and he isn't fat at all. He was young, so I attributed

it to that. I pointed out that if he wants to gain muscle at the same

time he loses fat, it would be better to go my the mirror than the

scale. He could judge his fat loss roughly by how much ab definition

he can see and the shape of his torso, and ignore his weight

altogether.

> So do you feel any different gluten free?

Who knows? I went back on the WD at the same time. As always, too

many variables.

Chris

[Guest guest]

On 7/19/05, Idol <Idol@...> wrote:

> I certainly can't vouch for this information, but I've read that creatine

> monohydrate, the standard form, will do that to you, whereas creatine ethyl

> ester, which you take in much lower doses but which is absorbed and

> utilized much more efficiently, will cause you to gain muscle more slowly

> but will give you real muscle gains that actually stick (assuming you keep

> working out, anyway).

The second time I took creatine, it was an esterified form. My

experience was that it gave me more muscle gains over the same time

frame, but I lost them when I stopped taking it. It's possible some

of them stuck, but I did lose weight pretty fast after stopping it.

I think that raw meat would be high in creatine (cooking destroys

creatine), so I'm guessing that taking small amounts of creatine on a

long-term basis would probably mimic a good diet anyway.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>What I'm saying is that if I don't have a warrior

>feast, I need to eat something directly before bed. If I have a

>warrior feast, I can go an hour or two without eating before bed.

I doubt an hour or two is nearly enough. Try five or even six.

-

[Guest guest]

About the Warrior Diet, another thing occurred to me: I thought that a

person's stomach is supposed to hold about 2 cups of food, un-stretched. I

wonder what all this fluctuation in warrior feasting does for the health of

the organs? Good or bad?

~Robin