Re: Ecological Nursing was Glucose... and relatives

[Guest guest]

Somehow I managed to miss out on this thread...

I am nursing my 47 mos old son. When he was under a year old everyone seemed to

accept me pulling out my boob in public to nurse him. But, when that magical 1

yr mark came everyone seemed to freak out, family, friends, strangers. I am not

really the kind of person who cares too much about what people think but by the

time my son turned 2 people were insinuating I was some kind of child abuser,

and that did kind of get to me.

I tried to print out articles for people I knew but it didn't have much effect.

Strangely, soon after people seemed to just give up. My mom still says once in

a while " you're still nursing him right? "

I have to agree with a previous poster that nursing gets much easier after 2 1/2

or 3. I think it just gets easier to communicate and negotiate with the little

one. When my son was 2 and still wanting to nurse around the clock and I was

getting so much social pressure to stop it was really difficult. I was glad to

have the support of my LLL list.

Luckily my husband is totally supportive. My sisters husband pressured her to

wean at one year because he said he wanted her breasts back. Maybe if he would

have been nursed by his own mother he wouldn't need his wife's boobies so much

he felt he had to compete with his child. <giggle>

This could get a whole new thread started as to the reason WHY our culture has

such a sexual fascination with breasts. Hello! they are not anywhere near the

genitals.

Kim

[Guest guest]

Yeah, but they look like a rump...

B.

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:53:52 -0800, Lenz Kim, Charlie and Riley

<lenz3@...> wrote:

>

> Somehow I managed to miss out on this thread...

> I am nursing my 47 mos old son. When he was under a year old everyone seemed

to accept me pulling out my boob in public to nurse him. But, when that magical

1 yr mark came everyone seemed to freak out, family, friends, strangers. I am

not really the kind of person who cares too much about what people think but by

the time my son turned 2 people were insinuating I was some kind of child

abuser, and that did kind of get to me.

>

> I tried to print out articles for people I knew but it didn't have much

effect. Strangely, soon after people seemed to just give up. My mom still says

once in a while " you're still nursing him right? "

>

> I have to agree with a previous poster that nursing gets much easier after 2

1/2 or 3. I think it just gets easier to communicate and negotiate with the

little one. When my son was 2 and still wanting to nurse around the clock and I

was getting so much social pressure to stop it was really difficult. I was glad

to have the support of my LLL list.

>

> Luckily my husband is totally supportive. My sisters husband pressured her to

wean at one year because he said he wanted her breasts back. Maybe if he would

have been nursed by his own mother he wouldn't need his wife's boobies so much

he felt he had to compete with his child. <giggle>

>

> This could get a whole new thread started as to the reason WHY our culture has

such a sexual fascination with breasts. Hello! they are not anywhere near the

genitals.

>

> Kim

>

>

[Guest guest]

I find it strange that a man would compete for the tissues responsible

for his child's nourishment. Why can't they share?

Breasts are very sensual, though. How many of you men get sexually

aroused when your nipples are caressed?

Deanna

>

>

> Luckily my husband is totally supportive. My sisters husband

> pressured her to wean at one year because he said he wanted her

> breasts back. Maybe if he would have been nursed by his own mother he

> wouldn't need his wife's boobies so much he felt he had to compete

> with his child. <giggle>

>

> This could get a whole new thread started as to the reason WHY our

> culture has such a sexual fascination with breasts. Hello! they are

> not anywhere near the genitals.

>

> Kim

>

>

[Guest guest]

>> This could get a whole new thread started as to the reason WHY our

>> culture has such a sexual fascination with breasts.

A gay man once told me, honey, everyone loves boobies. And I think it's

in part the association with mama, and in this culture the lengths to

which we take breast obsession can be traced to bottle feeding/early

weaning. Nobody gets enough boob when they're babies and they're trying

to make up for it later.

Lynn S.

who nursed #1 3 years and would have nursed #2 as long as she wanted

but I had a heart attack and had to wean...

------

Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky

http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com

http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net

[Guest guest]

Kim,

I have to agree... my hubby is supportive, because he trusts me to do

what I think is best for them, but he wants them back too... I told

him to discuss it with his mother! LOL

>

> Luckily my husband is totally supportive. My sisters husband pressured her

> to wean at one year because he said he wanted her breasts back. Maybe if he

> would have been nursed by his own mother he wouldn't need his wife's boobies

> so much he felt he had to compete with his child. <giggle>

>

> This could get a whole new thread started as to the reason WHY our culture

> has such a sexual fascination with breasts. Hello! they are not anywhere

> near the genitals.

Too funny... I was just saying that the other night to my husband!

Much to his chagrin!

L.

[Guest guest]

" Lenz Kim, Charlie and Riley " <lenz3@...> wrote:

Luckily my husband is totally supportive. My sisters husband pressured her to

wean at one year because he said he wanted her breasts back. Maybe if he would

have been nursed by his own mother he wouldn't need his wife's boobies so much

he felt he had to compete with his child. <giggle>

########Gosh, didn't he learn to share as a kid? <weg> And doesn't he know that

he might benefit from drinking some of that breast milk himself? I mean I can't

think of a better way to get lauric acid, can you? I mean greasy coconut oil

versus my wife's sweet boobies? I can't imagine what this guy is thinking? Can

you? The dude is looking a gift horse in the mouth and doesn't even know it.

This could get a whole new thread started as to the reason WHY our culture has

such a sexual fascination with breasts. Hello! they are not anywhere near the

genitals.

#######Nope, but if you have made it that far then the genitals aren't far

behind. And that works both ways :-)

(who can't believe he just said that)

Throw Away Your Vote!

If you must, vote for a third party

http://snipurl.com/a8od

" In The Abolition of Man, C.S.

observed that the modern schoolboy

is conditioned to take one side in

a controversy which he has not learned

to recognize as a controversy at all.

That is, he is trained to assume a

materialist and Darwinian outlook,

without realizing that materialism and

Darwinism have been subject to thoughtful

criticisms from their first appearance. "

Joe Sobran

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Kim-

>This could get a whole new thread started as to the reason WHY our culture

>has such a sexual fascination with breasts. Hello! they are not anywhere

>near the genitals.

It's pretty simple. Breasts are a secondary sexual characteristic capable

of strongly indicating a potential mate's fitness for child-rearing and

therefore is a good (biological) indicator of attractiveness.

-

[Guest guest]

-

" strongly indicating a potential mate's fitness for child-rearing "

Women who are flat chested can rear healthy children just like any other. Yes,

breasts, in scientific circles, are named secondary sexual characteristics, but

so is a man's adam apple. You don't see women going " Whoa, check out the size

of that apple! "

And in cultures where women don't cover their breasts and nurse their children

freely in public, breasts are not a sexual fascination like in our culture.

I think associating sex with breasts is something that is culturally specific.

Also, the fact that we cover up that part of our body adds to the interest.

I've read that back in n times men got a real thrill out of women's

ankles because they hardly ever got to see them.

Kim- who is glad she finally figured out what they're really for.

[Guest guest]

> It's pretty simple. Breasts are a secondary sexual characteristic capable

> of strongly indicating a potential mate's fitness for child-rearing and

> therefore is a good (biological) indicator of attractiveness.

,

Please explain how breasts indicate a potential mate's fitness for

child-rearing. Are saying that in your opinion large breasted women are

better fit for child-rearing?

Rhea

[Guest guest]

Yeah, , splain. Inquiring minds want to know!

Deanna, who has/thinks the jungle booty still reigns supreme in

biological matters

>,

>

>Please explain how breasts indicate a potential mate's fitness for

>child-rearing. Are saying that in your opinion large breasted women are

>better fit for child-rearing?

>

>Rhea

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:13:29 -0500

Idol <Idol@...> wrote:

> Kim-

>

> >This could get a whole new thread started as to the reason WHY our culture

> >has such a sexual fascination with breasts. Hello! they are not anywhere

> >near the genitals.

>

> It's pretty simple. Breasts are a secondary sexual characteristic capable

> of strongly indicating a potential mate's fitness for child-rearing and

> therefore is a good (biological) indicator of attractiveness.

>

>

>

>

> -

Hmmm...I sure you have a good explanation, but if I was a betting man,

based on how I am understanding what you wrote (which could be wrong), I

would say you are stepping into some deep doodoo with some of the women

on this list <weg>

" Scholarship is essentially confirming your early paranoia through

a deeper factual analysis. "

Murray Rothbard

" Vegetarians, come away from The Dark Side.

Pork is the other white meat; beef is what’s for dinner;

and a day without pepper-crusted venison tenderloin is

like a day without sunshine. "

Brad Edmonds

[Guest guest]

You might be right ...

34A raising three wonderful children, nursing 52 months, and still

going strong...

Catz

>

> Hmmm...I sure you have a good explanation, but if I was a betting man,

> based on how I am understanding what you wrote (which could be wrong), I

> would say you are stepping into some deep doodoo with some of the women

> on this list <weg>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Somehow I managed to miss out on this thread...

> I am nursing my 47 mos old son. When he was under a year old everyone

seemed to accept me pulling out my boob in public to nurse him. But, when

that magical 1 yr mark came everyone seemed to freak out, family, friends,

strangers. I am not really the kind of person who cares too much about what

people think but by the time my son turned 2 people were insinuating I was

some kind of child abuser, and that did kind of get to me.

I wonder if people are more accepting of older kids nursing if

they're girls? I don't remember when I stopped nursing in public,

but after a while the only nursing we did was in bed, going to

sleep. This ended when she was about 4.5 years old, when the

dentist finally talked me into stopping nursing her to sleep at

night. Naptime nursing wasn't enough to keep my milk flowing,

and when the milk dried up, she was no longer interested (not

the case for some kids). She still loves my breasts, though - she

likes to fall asleep with her face against them. I suppose this

could raise some eyebrows somewhere.

> Luckily my husband is totally supportive. My sisters husband pressured her

to wean at one year because he said he wanted her breasts back. Maybe if

he would have been nursed by his own mother he wouldn't need his wife's

boobies so much he felt he had to compete with his child. <giggle>

My husband loved my breasts when I was nursing. I guess sometimes

the woman isn't as receptive to sexual breast play when she's

nursing, though. That could make a guy a bit wistful ...

Has anyone else here ever nursed someone else's baby? I nursed

both my nephews once or twice, when their mom wasn't available.

Once it was in the context of a mom's group, and I had to fight a

little for the privilege! Of course I love these kids anyway, but I

noticed that my attachment to them intensified immediately after

nursing them, and the effect lasted for about a week.

Aven

[Guest guest]

Kim-

>Women who are flat chested can rear healthy children just like any

>other. Yes, breasts, in scientific circles, are named secondary sexual

>characteristics, but so is a man's adam apple. You don't see women going

> " Whoa, check out the size of that apple! "

I could be wrong, but my suspicion is that all else being equal,

flat-chested women will tend to produce less milk than women with large

breasts. apples, however, have no actual purpose that I know

of. They're residual. However, that said, you might find that a man

without an adams apple looked strange and unattractive.

>I think associating sex with breasts is something that is culturally

>specific. Also, the fact that we cover up that part of our body adds to

>the interest. I've read that back in n times men got a real

>thrill out of women's ankles because they hardly ever got to see them.

Certainly the covering of breasts contributes to their sexual appeal, but

once clothed, breasts are pretty much universally considered desirable.

BTW, I was nursed until I was 3 or 4, and I consider breasts sexually

attractive.

-

[Guest guest]

Rhea-

>Are saying that in your opinion large breasted women are

>better fit for child-rearing?

Why else do you think the general preference is for larger rather than

smaller breasts?

-

[Guest guest]

-

> I

>would say you are stepping into some deep doodoo with some of the women

>on this list <weg>

Yes, no doubt, but often the truth is unpopular. Man is a biological

creature, much as many of us prefer to believe in a disembodied soul, a

ghost in the machine, a blank slate, or what have you.

-

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Idol "

> I could be wrong, but my suspicion is that all else being equal,

> flat-chested women will tend to produce less milk than women with large

> breasts.

Well, .... <drum roll> You're wrong.

Milk is produced from the milk ducts. The rest is just adipose tissue.

Short of ductal formation defect--some women are born with insufficient

ductal networks, but this is very very rare, despite the ubiquitous stories

of women reporting that they 'don't make enough milk'--all women are born

with roughly the same amount of milk ducts. Size is merely degrees of fat

tissue.

--s, a less than A who invariably drowns the newborn in too much milk and

makes enough for two or more nurslings at a time.

[Guest guest]

Suzanne-

>Size is merely degrees of fat

>tissue.

It's not a random variation, though, even if all women have about the same

number of milk-producing ducts. It's due to factors like the prevalence of

sex hormones, diet, and so on.

-

[Guest guest]

>>Why else do you think the general preference is for larger rather than

smaller breasts?

-<<

~~~There is an, (I would think), obvious retort here, that has to do with the

size of mens' organs, and what purpose they serve, since a small one gets the

job done as well as a large one.......but which is generally preferred?

(Rhetorical, of course.)

Or, we can take that in another direction. Why are large eyes preferred in

women over small eyes, or succulent full lips, as opposed to thin lips. You can

take this to all sorts of extremes. There are simply features that are

preferred, and almost universally preferred, that serve no practical purpose.

BTW, I don't know this as fact, but doesn't milk production have more to do with

general health etc., than it does size of the breast? I believe sperm

production has more to do with such things than with the size of the organ

through which it exits the body.

Carol

[Guest guest]

>> I could be wrong, but my suspicion is that all else being equal,

>> flat-chested women will tend to produce less milk than women with large

>> breasts.

The Japanese used to bind their breasts, and they Japanese men didn't

seem to select for larger breasts (well, maybe now they do, I hear the

culture has changed in that regard from watching Western movies).

But the obsession with breasts is NOT universal: other cultures have

different obsessions with parts of the female anatomy. I do suspect

a lot of it is as others have said: Western males AND females never

got enough of breasts when they were babies. That and we are programmed

from birth to look for the " bull's eye " with our weak little newborn eyes

so we can get some good food.

I think it may be true that women with larger breasts and hips produce

more estrogen though ... they seem to be more the " womanly " types in their

speech and mannerisms too, from my observations.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

I don't think that's true, . In fact, I think that

big-breasted women may have more problems

breastfeeding than small-breasted ones.

Aven

> I could be wrong, but my suspicion is that all else being equal,

> flat-chested women will tend to produce less milk than women with large

> breasts.

> -

[Guest guest]

> -

>

> > I

> >would say you are stepping into some deep doodoo with some of the

women

> >on this list <weg>

>

> Yes, no doubt, but often the truth is unpopular. Man is a biological

> creature, much as many of us prefer to believe in a disembodied soul, a

> ghost in the machine, a blank slate, or what have you.

>

>

>

>

> -

[Guest guest]

Another thought: A truly FLAT-chested woman may be

lacking the body fat to reproduce well. And some of us

GO flat after nursing lots of babies. It seems to me that

men love young, firm breasts, whatever their size -

indicating a ripe young woman with enough fat to be

healthy.

Aven

> Rhea-

>

> >Are saying that in your opinion large breasted women are

> >better fit for child-rearing?

>

> Why else do you think the general preference is for larger rather than

> smaller breasts?

>

>

>

>

> -

[Guest guest]

>

>

> >>Why else do you think the general preference is for larger rather than

> smaller breasts?

> -<<

>

> ~~~There is an, (I would think), obvious retort here, that has to do with the

size of mens' organs, and what purpose they serve, since a small one gets the

job done as well as a large one.......but which is generally preferred?

(Rhetorical, of course.)

@In my experience (which is not all *that* extensive) penis size is

about proportional to height. Perhaps larger penises are desirable

because taller, stronger men have them.

>

> Or, we can take that in another direction. Why are large eyes preferred in

women over small eyes, or succulent full lips, as opposed to thin lips. You

can take this to all sorts of extremes. There are simply features that are

preferred, and almost universally preferred, that serve no practical purpose.

@My husband says big breasts are desirable because they're an

exaggeration of a female trait. You could say the same about

the traits you mentioned.

@There's also the butt theory - if men like our breasts because they

resemble our butts - well, big ones resemble it a lot more! But

my husband vehemently denies that this is the attraction!

Aven

>

> BTW, I don't know this as fact, but doesn't milk production have more to do

with general health etc., than it does size of the breast? I believe sperm

production has more to do with such things than with the size of the organ

through which it exits the body.

> Carol

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think some of it is pure fashion. Big butts are in, yet 20 years ago

many (women anyway) were working hard in the gym to get rid of it. Now

you can get implants there too. Oh, and mannequins have fuller booties

now too.

Deanna

Carol wrote:

>

>

> >>Why else do you think the general preference is for larger rather than

> smaller breasts?

> -<<

>

> ~~~There is an, (I would think), obvious retort here, that has to do

> with the size of mens' organs, and what purpose they serve, since a

> small one gets the job done as well as a large one.......but which is

> generally preferred? (Rhetorical, of course.)

>

> Or, we can take that in another direction. Why are large eyes

> preferred in women over small eyes, or succulent full lips, as opposed

> to thin lips. You can take this to all sorts of extremes. There are

> simply features that are preferred, and almost universally preferred,

> that serve no practical purpose.

>

> BTW, I don't know this as fact, but doesn't milk production have more

> to do with general health etc., than it does size of the breast? I

> believe sperm production has more to do with such things than with the

> size of the organ through which it exits the body.

> Carol

>

>

>

>

>

>

>