NAPD and food obsession

October 19, 2004

I was re-reading NAPD a few weeks ago, and I came across the section

where Price talks about preparing one healthy meal a day for children

suffering from tooth decay. He mentions that he gave them rolls made

daily with freshly ground whole wheat flour. That always gave me the

impression that the rolls were not sour leavened. Am I wrong? I find

it frustrating that there is so little information on the food

preparation techniques Price used. As I was thinking about the

whether the bread was sour leavened or not I thought that maybe that

wasn't so important since the children continued to consume highly

refined foods for two-thirds of the day and still maintain their tooth

decay in check with one nutritious meal. As I reflected on that I

then began to think that maybe Enig has the right idea eating her

Newman O's cookies, cocoa etc. every now and then. Sure eating a

traditional diet the majority of the time is the best way to preserve

your health, but we also need to enjoy food and stop thinking about it

as a scientific experiment. I thought that the NY Times article that

Heidi recently posted was excellent in that respect. Esentially

the message was: the more you obsess over food (like we Americans do)

the more it can hurt you. That's why I think I dislike the polemical

tone of NT sometimes. It's sort of a downer. Sometimes I find myself

going to my Biba Caggiano trattoria recipes cookbook because she (like

most Italians) is so excited and upbeat about good food. Her positive

attitude just pours across the pages and makes you just want to cook

(and eat) up a storm. Isn't that what food is all about? A special

moment to share with friends and family? It's hard to find the

balance between trying to eat properly and becoming a fanatic over it.

And the massive amounts of contradictory information don't help.

Even the so-called " experts " don't agree.

OK. I've got that off my chest now.

Dawn

October 19, 2004

" " also, i have to say that getting rid of television helps tremendously in

every department, but especially in food advertising. (all advertising, a

ctually!) " "

Amen to that....I got rid of mine last July, and I haven't missed it in the

least. I do live alone, so some music helps keep me company! I can't believe

it when I watch it now, actually it's hard to watch anymore.....I've been

watching the Cardinals play at a friends house and I can't hardly take all the

stupid, mindless commercials. They must think we are all just stupid.

And it's easy to be a food nazi when you live alone....but it definitely

isolates you. I don't have a speck of anything " bad " in my home. When friends

come over, they look in my fridge and my cabinets and appear confused, then

they just shake their heads......I LOVE my food, I'd eat this way anyway,

now !

Katja, you sound like a pretty neat person! I'm getting ready to start

homesteading on my 27 acres in western Illinois in the spring, and I would

LOVE to spend some time with you on your farm....I'm sure I could learn ALOT

Any room for an " intern " ? :-)

--

Steve

October 19, 2004

" " as long as you

don't smoke and aren't allergic to cats. " "

DEFINITELY don't smoke (...are you serious?), and I LOVE cats....so I

think we are a match ! , and I could sure use the education....I love to cook,

hate televisions,love to garden, hate mean people, and love things slow and

simple!

How many acres do you have, and (approx.) where are you in

Vermont?....I've kinda fallen for your state ever since I fell in love with a

quirky

little band from Burlington.....are you anywhere near the site of that big

" festival " in Coventry? I've seen alot of pictures recently from some websites

of

the concertgoers....and Vermont looks like a BEAUTIFUL place, ALOT of rain in

August made the festival grounds a MESS though.... With 70-80,000 people, it's

hard to avoid! I understood that during the weekend, they had a vendor area

of the local farmers' organic produce, and honey, etc., for sale......I was

just curious! :-) Everyone who I heard from that went, thought Vermont was a

beautiful place and enjoyed their time there!

--

Steve

October 19, 2004

uh...i didn't read all that, but i think this is what you mean:

i'm a total food nazi. we make almost no compromises in our home. but i

also teach nutritional classes, and in that case, there's a sliding scale.

you have to meet the person where they are, and if that means just making

things a little better, well, that's better than they were. there's a

learning curve, and people have to move along it in a manner they can

accept. however, there does come some point at which compromising is no

longer acceptable. the christians have a great line about this - about that

when i was a baby, i was fed only milk but now i'm an adult and -- well,

you get the point. at some point you need to just recognize that you're an

adult, and that oreos are NOT your right (or your child's right!)

that said, we eat insanely richly. we eat such good food it's ridiculous. i

think it's absurd to act all dour about what you're NOT eating when you ARE

eating such wonderful delicious stuff. i really think that if you are

feeling dour about what you're eating, you're either still addicted or

you're doing it wrong. there's no reason not to have delicious tasty great

things, no matter what you like. you like pie? i can make a healthy pie. i

can even make you completely healthy brownies. of course they're not for

every day, mostly cause the traditionally fermented chocolate is quite

costly - though i like that it's costly. when people complain about that, i

always tell them that it's appropriate for it to be costly! it's a SPECIAL

thing! go back and read little house on the prairie (even by then their

nutrition wasn't so great, but they make a good example) where it talks

about saving up their sugar to make a cake for a special occasion. so

that's fine, ya know? it doesn't mean you don't eat tremendous, delicious

food every single day though.

no-compromise doesn't mean no-fun, and should *not* be marketed that way!

-katja

At 07:10 AM 10/19/2004, you wrote:

>I was re-reading NAPD a few weeks ago, and I came across the section

>where Price talks about preparing one healthy meal a day for children

>suffering from tooth decay. He mentions that he gave them rolls made

>daily with freshly ground whole wheat flour. That always gave me the

>impression that the rolls were not sour leavened. Am I wrong? I find

>it frustrating that there is so little information on the food

>preparation techniques Price used. As I was thinking about the

>whether the bread was sour leavened or not I thought that maybe that

>wasn't so important since the children continued to consume highly

>refined foods for two-thirds of the day and still maintain their tooth

>decay in check with one nutritious meal. As I reflected on that I

>then began to think that maybe Enig has the right idea eating her

>Newman O's cookies, cocoa etc. every now and then. Sure eating a

>traditional diet the majority of the time is the best way to preserve

>your health, but we also need to enjoy food and stop thinking about it

>as a scientific experiment. I thought that the NY Times article that

>Heidi recently posted was excellent in that respect. Esentially

>the message was: the more you obsess over food (like we Americans do)

>the more it can hurt you. That's why I think I dislike the polemical

>tone of NT sometimes. It's sort of a downer. Sometimes I find myself

>going to my Biba Caggiano trattoria recipes cookbook because she (like

>most Italians) is so excited and upbeat about good food. Her positive

>attitude just pours across the pages and makes you just want to cook

>(and eat) up a storm. Isn't that what food is all about? A special

>moment to share with friends and family? It's hard to find the

>balance between trying to eat properly and becoming a fanatic over it.

> And the massive amounts of contradictory information don't help.

>Even the so-called " experts " don't agree.

>

>OK. I've got that off my chest now.

>Dawn

>

October 19, 2004

The NYT article Heidi found reminds me of a book

I've read called " The Fat Fallacy. " It's about

French vs. American attitudes toward food and

why the French are thinner than Americans. To put

it in a nutshell, Americans tend to eat junky, fake

food all day long, and pig out on low-fat or low-carb

or whatever magic food doesn't make you fat this week.

The French are more likely to eat only at mealtimes,

really enjoy cooking and eating, eat rich, natural foods,

and then STOP eating.

The idea of cooking and eating for pleasure, without

worrying much about health, really appeals to me.

I think this is how it should be. If we all lived in lovely

little organic farming villages, surrounded by fresh,

natural foods, and traditional methods of cooking

and preserving were second nature, we wouldn't

have to dwell on health aspects and " shouldn'ts. "

We could just take what was there and make it

taste good.

But alas, most of us live surrounded by junk food

and bombarded with advertising for it on a daily

basis. To protect our health in this kind of

environment, we have to be constantly on guard,

constantly saying no to things.

> i'm a total food nazi. we make almost no compromises in our home.

Being a " total food nazi " in your own home is one

way of creating an environment where the bad

stuff just isn't there and you don't think about it.

You can relax and eat for pleasure within that

controlled environment. Not as nice as having a

whole village, but hey ...

> > that said, we eat insanely richly. we eat such good food it's

ridiculous. i

> think it's absurd to act all dour about what you're NOT eating when

you ARE

> eating such wonderful delicious stuff. i really think that if you

are

> feeling dour about what you're eating, you're either still addicted

or

> you're doing it wrong.

Right. Just because a " food " exists, doesn't mean you're

deprived because you're not eating it. We are so lucky

today because we get food from all over the world so

easily - we have variety that was unheard of just a few

hundred years ago.

> go back and read little house on the prairie (even by then their

> nutrition wasn't so great, but they make a good example) where it

talks

> about saving up their sugar to make a cake for a special occasion.

Yes, a big part of our problem today is that foods that should be

rare treats are so readily available and cheap. I can cross the

street and buy a big cake every day if I want to. But I'd RATHER

spend hours making a cake from scratch once or twice a year.

The time spent, and the care taken with the ingredients, underscores

the specialness of it. It's more " French, " if you like, to spend

all day making a wonderful cake. It's more " American " to get

a junky one, ready-made, once a week.

To people who've grown up and formed eating habits

in this bad-food environment, eating healthy may mean

saying no to everything they're used to, and maybe

addicted to. It feels like deprivation - it IS deprivation, until

you learn to like the good stuff.

Aven

October 19, 2004

I agree with you Dawn. Although I greatly admire people such as Katja who

can eat so purely, I am just not one of them. I get neurotic as all get out

once i put it in my head i can't have anything (and it's not just food). It

is just my nature to rebel against rules (although i doubt Katja would call

them rules). I have found my own health vastly, vastly improved eating a

mostly good diet, with some splurges here and there. And the longer i stick

to this way of eating, the fewer and far in between those splurges are. I

have a history of eating disorders and it's no secret that my current

nutritional obsessions are just the latest incarnation of that. I am on a

healing path physically and mentally with food, and i find the NT diet best

fits that path, because it is closest to 'normal'. But it also means there

is no room in my psyche to be a purist -- at least right now. Whenever i

hear the term " food police " i cringe bc i have tendencies to be that way,

and yet here i am almost 40 pound overweight! I think people must shake

their heads at me. Food is such a gift, such pleasure, such fun and such an

adventure. I think the Italian attitude can't be beat in that way. You are

lucky that as you go deeper into the NT way of eating that you an access

that attitude so readily. Here in the US it is like the Crusades or

something. I'll never forget having my last TDay ruined by the woman next to

me spouting off about vegetarianism and how anyone who was educated wouldn't

eat meat. I chose not to get it into it with her, but nevertheless found the

whole scenario sadly typical of the American food consciousness.

Elaine

>

>> I was re-reading NAPD a few weeks ago, and I came across the section

>> where Price talks about preparing one healthy meal a day for children

>> suffering from tooth decay. He mentions that he gave them rolls made

>> daily with freshly ground whole wheat flour. That always gave me the

>> impression that the rolls were not sour leavened. Am I wrong? I find

>> it frustrating that there is so little information on the food

>> preparation techniques Price used. As I was thinking about the

>> whether the bread was sour leavened or not I thought that maybe that

>> wasn't so important since the children continued to consume highly

>> refined foods for two-thirds of the day and still maintain their tooth

>> decay in check with one nutritious meal. As I reflected on that I

>> then began to think that maybe Enig has the right idea eating her

>> Newman O's cookies, cocoa etc. every now and then. Sure eating a

>> traditional diet the majority of the time is the best way to preserve

>> your health, but we also need to enjoy food and stop thinking about it

>> as a scientific experiment. I thought that the NY Times article that

>> Heidi recently posted was excellent in that respect. Esentially

>> the message was: the more you obsess over food (like we Americans do)

>> the more it can hurt you. That's why I think I dislike the polemical

>> tone of NT sometimes. It's sort of a downer. Sometimes I find myself

>> going to my Biba Caggiano trattoria recipes cookbook because she (like

>> most Italians) is so excited and upbeat about good food. Her positive

>> attitude just pours across the pages and makes you just want to cook

>> (and eat) up a storm. Isn't that what food is all about? A special

>> moment to share with friends and family? It's hard to find the

>> balance between trying to eat properly and becoming a fanatic over it.

>> And the massive amounts of contradictory information don't help.

>> Even the so-called " experts " don't agree.

>>

>> OK. I've got that off my chest now.

>> Dawn

>>

October 19, 2004

At 12:49 PM 10/19/2004, you wrote:

> > i'm a total food nazi. we make almost no compromises in our home.

>

>Being a " total food nazi " in your own home is one

>way of creating an environment where the bad

>stuff just isn't there and you don't think about it.

>You can relax and eat for pleasure within that

>controlled environment. Not as nice as having a

>whole village, but hey ...

aven - i totally agree with all you said.

and it's true - being a food nazi actually means never having to think

about it! we don't eat out, and we don't eat at other people's houses. we

only buy good stuff and presto! i just don't have to ever think about it -

i can just enjoy cooking. and our friends don't mind eating here instead,

cause our food is so great! (also, because of celiac, we're easily able to

explain away that we don't eat at their houses without outright saying

" your food sucks and i wouldn't eat it anyway! " )

also, i have to say that getting rid of television helps tremendously in

every department, but especially in food advertising. (all advertising, a

ctually!)

-katja

October 19, 2004

>. Sometimes I find myself

>going to my Biba Caggiano trattoria recipes cookbook because she (like

>most Italians) is so excited and upbeat about good food. Her positive

>attitude just pours across the pages and makes you just want to cook

>(and eat) up a storm. Isn't that what food is all about? A special

>moment to share with friends and family? It's hard to find the

>balance between trying to eat properly and becoming a fanatic over it.

>And the massive amounts of contradictory information don't help.

>Even the so-called " experts " don't agree.

That is one reason I like Nourishing Traditions ... yeah, it's polemic

at times but the basic idea is *tradition*. Those old Italian women

cooked what they cooked ... they got the recipes down pat over time

and inherited them. I don't think all the food was good for them.

Not all the food in our house is good for us either! I HAVE to be

a food Nazi about gluten, and I don't have the energy to be

that obsessive about anything else. But after awhile you come

up with traditions, and, well, that's your habit and it's what you

eat and then you don't think much about it. I use coconut oil

for frying now instead of canola, not a big deal and it tastes

better. I ferment my beer instead of buying it. etc. etc. By

now those are just habits, not obsessions.

But if I go out and buy a Diet Coke and fries while I'm on

the road ... well, it'll taste kinda bad and I'll probably wish I

had gotten something else, but it's really not going to

seriously impact my health. And if I'm invited to someone

else's house for dinner, I'll share the food as much as I

can, because you are right, family and friends are a big deal!

Heidi Jean

October 19, 2004

At 02:12 PM 10/19/2004, you wrote:

>

> Katja, you sound like a pretty neat person! I'm getting ready to start

>homesteading on my 27 acres in western Illinois in the spring, and I would

>LOVE to spend some time with you on your farm....I'm sure I could learn

>ALOT

>Any room for an " intern " ? :-)

>

>--

>Steve

absolutely! we have a huge house and plenty of guest rooms, as long as you

don't smoke and aren't allergic to cats. if you do smoke, you can come out

and quit, and if you're allergic to cats i can work with you on that

herbally

homesteading is the coolest thing ever, really. i think what we're doing is

a little too large to officially qualify as homesteading, but that's

alright. also, we have a great email list around here that you and others

might like - it's VermontHomesteaders and it's for vermont

homesteaders and vermonters or homesteaders at heart. it's pretty low

traffic. definitely watch for walter's posts - he rocks.

and hee! thanks!

-katja

October 20, 2004

FWIW, a few years ago the psychobabble folks coined a term to describe the

eating disorder in which one must always eat " correctly " : orthorexia. As a

reformed vegan, I know how blinded and inflexible a person can get by

particular ideas about " what IS right " . I remember feeling so angry that

nothing " out there " in restaurants was " acceptable " to me to eat, and then

the light began to dawn that perhaps _I_ was the one on the wrong path...

Now, as a deliberate " anti-orthorexia antidote " (to keep us from taking this

all so deadly seriously), we occasionally " allow " certain " unacceptable "

foods, like corndogs, just for " balance " , and no guilt allowed... :-)

I remember a post (probably here, a year or two ago?) about an alternate

explanation of the French " paradox " . The idea was the health benefits of

their diet come not from _what_ they eat, but rather _how_ they eat: slowly,

with family and friends. It was something about the metabolic processes

were different when food is eaten slowly over time, rather than in a rush,

in your car...

quote from my ds, 7: " Mom, this meal is so healthy it's making me sick! "

....and another: " Mom, is this glutton-free bread? "

October 20, 2004

At 07:11 PM 10/19/2004, you wrote:

>

>FWIW, a few years ago the psychobabble folks coined a term to describe the

>eating disorder in which one must always eat " correctly " : orthorexia. As a

>reformed vegan, I know how blinded and inflexible a person can get by

>particular ideas about " what IS right " . I remember feeling so angry that

>nothing " out there " in restaurants was " acceptable " to me to eat, and then

>the light began to dawn that perhaps _I_ was the one on the wrong path...

>

>Now, as a deliberate " anti-orthorexia antidote " (to keep us from taking this

>all so deadly seriously), we occasionally " allow " certain " unacceptable "

>foods, like corndogs, just for " balance " , and no guilt allowed... :-)

well, ok. if that makes you feel better.

do whatcha gotta do, ya know?

-katja

October 20, 2004

Oh, I totally agree! We never watch television, just rented movies.

I would love to say that we never watch anything - just read

books, but it wouldn't be true. But I just love living without

commercials invading my home. My daughter often comes

home from somewhere else wanting something because

they were watching TV. And now - coming up on Christmas

time - it just gets awful. Maybe I should keep her at home

until Christmas!

I hate the news, too, and I don't think children should be

exposed to it.

Aven

> also, i have to say that getting rid of television helps tremendously in

> every department, but especially in food advertising. (all advertising,

actually!)

>

> -katja

October 20, 2004

>

> I remember a post (probably here, a year or two ago?) about an alternate

> explanation of the French " paradox " . The idea was the health benefits of

> their diet come not from _what_ they eat, but rather _how_ they eat: slowly,

> with family and friends. It was something about the metabolic processes

> were different when food is eaten slowly over time, rather than in a rush,

> in your car...

" The Fat Fallacy " talks about that - the French taking meals in many

courses, slowly, with a lot of conversation. Sounds wonderful, but

I don't see how it could work unless you have a cook.

Aven

>

> quote from my ds, 7: " Mom, this meal is so healthy it's making me sick! "

> ...and another: " Mom, is this glutton-free bread? "

Cute.

>

October 20, 2004

> I agree with you Dawn. Although I greatly admire people such as

Katja who

> can eat so purely, I am just not one of them. I get neurotic as all

get out

> once i put it in my head i can't have anything (and it's not just food).

That's exactly what I'm talking about Elaine. I really don't think

it's healthy to totally exclude certain types of food, like exquisite

Neapolitan pizza (which is leavened for 24 hours, uses only the finest

buffalo milk mozzarella, the freshest tomatoes, fresh-picked basil,

and sinfully delicious olive oil) just because it's made with white

flour. Sure, I'm not going to eat it on a regular basis, but it would

be downright miserable going out with a group of friends and being the

only one not eating it. OK. Now if you have Celiac like Katja or

Heidi I can totally see not eating it, but otherwise I think

it's truly a sin to miss out on one of life's special treats.

It

> is just my nature to rebel against rules (although i doubt Katja

would call

> them rules). I have found my own health vastly, vastly improved eating a

> mostly good diet, with some splurges here and there. And the longer

i stick

> to this way of eating, the fewer and far in between those splurges are.

I feel the same. I really don't have urges to eat pasta or Italian

bread, and I too feel great eating a natural diet. What I was talking

about (and I think Katja may have misunderstood this) was obsessing

over food. See, I don't think it's healthy to be so zealous over what

you eat. I can see why Katja would want to closely watch what she and

her family eat since they have a serious health issue with gluten, but

I don't think there is any reason to let it stop you from eating at a

friend's house. Perhaps if you explain that you have dietary

restrictions and tell them what you CAN eat, they'll prepare a nice

meal you'll enjoy. Sure, maybe the eggs won't be pastured and the

vegetables won't be organic and there won't be a lacto-fermented

beverage or vegetable, but I don't think that's such a big deal for

ONE meal.

I

> have a history of eating disorders and it's no secret that my current

> nutritional obsessions are just the latest incarnation of that. I am

on a

> healing path physically and mentally with food, and i find the NT

diet best

> fits that path, because it is closest to 'normal'. But it also means

there

> is no room in my psyche to be a purist -- at least right now. Whenever i

> hear the term " food police " i cringe bc i have tendencies to be that

way,

> and yet here i am almost 40 pound overweight! I think people must shake

> their heads at me. Food is such a gift, such pleasure, such fun and

such an

> adventure. I think the Italian attitude can't be beat in that way.

That's why I thought the Times article was right on the mark. It

makes us reflect on how we view food AND life for that matter.

Americans could learn a lot from the French, Spanish, Greeks and

Italians. They celebrate food. It's not supposed to be a battle of

you against the food. Sure they have some unhealthy eating habits

too, but fortunately they still have a great basic attitude towards

eating.

You are

> lucky that as you go deeper into the NT way of eating that you an access

> that attitude so readily. Here in the US it is like the Crusades or

> something. I'll never forget having my last TDay ruined by the woman

next to

> me spouting off about vegetarianism and how anyone who was educated

wouldn't

> eat meat. I chose not to get it into it with her, but nevertheless

found the

> whole scenario sadly typical of the American food consciousness.

I reall hope that changes. But, unfortunately, I see that miserable

way of looking at food coming across the Atlantic. I think food

manias grow as you are inundated with junk foods. However, we need to

fight against processed, unhealthy eating in a calm, rational, HAPPY

way without turning into zealots.

Dawn

> >

> >> I was re-reading NAPD a few weeks ago, and I came across the section

> >> where Price talks about preparing one healthy meal a day for children

> >> suffering from tooth decay. He mentions that he gave them rolls made

> >> daily with freshly ground whole wheat flour. That always gave me the

> >> impression that the rolls were not sour leavened. Am I wrong? I

find

> >> it frustrating that there is so little information on the food

> >> preparation techniques Price used. As I was thinking about the

> >> whether the bread was sour leavened or not I thought that maybe that

> >> wasn't so important since the children continued to consume highly

> >> refined foods for two-thirds of the day and still maintain their

tooth

> >> decay in check with one nutritious meal. As I reflected on that I

> >> then began to think that maybe Enig has the right idea

eating her

> >> Newman O's cookies, cocoa etc. every now and then. Sure eating a

> >> traditional diet the majority of the time is the best way to preserve

> >> your health, but we also need to enjoy food and stop thinking

about it

> >> as a scientific experiment. I thought that the NY Times article that

> >> Heidi recently posted was excellent in that respect. Esentially

> >> the message was: the more you obsess over food (like we Americans do)

> >> the more it can hurt you. That's why I think I dislike the polemical

> >> tone of NT sometimes. It's sort of a downer. Sometimes I find myself

> >> going to my Biba Caggiano trattoria recipes cookbook because she

(like

> >> most Italians) is so excited and upbeat about good food. Her positive

> >> attitude just pours across the pages and makes you just want to cook

> >> (and eat) up a storm. Isn't that what food is all about? A special

> >> moment to share with friends and family? It's hard to find the

> >> balance between trying to eat properly and becoming a fanatic

over it.

> >> And the massive amounts of contradictory information don't help.

> >> Even the so-called " experts " don't agree.

> >>

> >> OK. I've got that off my chest now.

> >> Dawn

> >>

October 20, 2004

>>>exquisite Neapolitan pizza (which is leavened for 24 hours, uses only the

finest buffalo milk mozzarella, the freshest tomatoes, fresh-picked basil, and

sinfully delicious olive oil)<<<

Droooooooooooolllllll........

October 20, 2004

Hi ,

>

> FWIW, a few years ago the psychobabble folks coined a term to

describe the

> eating disorder in which one must always eat " correctly " :

orthorexia. As a

> reformed vegan, I know how blinded and inflexible a person can get by

> particular ideas about " what IS right " . I remember feeling so angry

that

> nothing " out there " in restaurants was " acceptable " to me to eat,

and then

> the light began to dawn that perhaps _I_ was the one on the wrong

path...

You're describing me! I used to get anxious about eating at a

restaurant or with friends or even my family until I realized I needed

to RELAX!

>

> Now, as a deliberate " anti-orthorexia antidote " (to keep us from

taking this

> all so deadly seriously), we occasionally " allow " certain " unacceptable "

> foods, like corndogs, just for " balance " , and no guilt allowed... :-)

That's exactly what I'd like to do except with homemade pizza and

raviolis. I used to always make my husband those two things. I

started making them again over the past few months, but I would sit

there watching him eat it while I ate the " correct " foods (I feel

silly admitting that). Now we compromise, and I make a smaller

portion of pizza or raviolis (which I actually eat ) along with some

" healthier " stuff.

>

> I remember a post (probably here, a year or two ago?) about an alternate

> explanation of the French " paradox " . The idea was the health

benefits of

> their diet come not from _what_ they eat, but rather _how_ they eat:

slowly,

> with family and friends. It was something about the metabolic processes

> were different when food is eaten slowly over time, rather than in a

rush,

> in your car...

That's the way it is in Italy too. You have to see the love and

affection my husband's aunts put into making Christmas and Easter

dinners. Not everything is up to WAPD standards, but hey we're

celebrating a holiday, right? At Christmas time the whole family

(between 15 and 20 people .... sometimes more) eats for three days

straight together (the 26th is a holiday here). It's truly a banquet,

and I really love it. I wish people would go back to that in the

States.

Another quick example of the Italian eating mentality is that the

waiter will NOT bring you the check until you ask for it. You can sit

there for three hours and they WILL NOT bring the check over. It's

your right as the customer to decide when you're finished with your meal.

>

> quote from my ds, 7: " Mom, this meal is so healthy it's making me sick! "

> ...and another: " Mom, is this glutton-free bread? "

Thanks for bringing a lighter note to the conversation . Those

quotes made me laugh.

October 20, 2004

>

> --- In , " CF Beaver " <fletcher@w...>

wrote:

> >

> > I remember a post (probably here, a year or two ago?) about an

alternate

> > explanation of the French " paradox " . The idea was the health

benefits of

> > their diet come not from _what_ they eat, but rather _how_ they

eat: slowly,

> > with family and friends. It was something about the metabolic

processes

> > were different when food is eaten slowly over time, rather than in

a rush,

> > in your car...

>

> " The Fat Fallacy " talks about that - the French taking meals in many

> courses, slowly, with a lot of conversation. Sounds wonderful, but

> I don't see how it could work unless you have a cook.

> Aven

I do lots of prep on the weekends and then freeze some stuff. I work

full time at home as a translator, take care of my one-year-old and

house and help my brother with his website and have no relatives near

by and somehow I manage (although it can be exhausting). You just

have to manage your time wisely and prepare simple things I think. I

think eating slowly in a relaxed atmosphere is key, even though I

certainly don't achieve it all of the time.. My fondest memories as a

kid are the family meals we had together. My Dad was big on making us

eat breakfast and dinner together.

Dawn

October 20, 2004

All I have to say is " Yaaay CJ! "

> I like being a 'food snob' but I don't ever want to

> become a 'food nazi'. I'm sure those that are do not

> feel limited, which is why they can live like that.

> But I would. (And I want to stress, I'm only talking

> about mysefl here - not criticising or making

> assumptions about anyone else. )

You see, I was starting to live like that, and I was becoming miserable.

>

> I don't want to be so obsessed with feeding my child

> that I don't have as much time to spend with him (and

> no, I am not saying you all neglect your children - or

> that you cannot do both. Again, But even the way I am

> it seems all I think and talk and read about is food -

> I " m starting to not like what I see) .

I was doing the same thing. It seemed my days were filled with reading

and talking about food or, even worse, trying to find all of the OK

foods to eat. I felt bad about eating biodynamic yogurt because it

was pasteurized!

>

> Food is important, but I don't want it running my

> life I don't want to make my decisions based on food.

> I don't want to refuse to eat with famiy and friends,

> (It's bad enough that I have only seen them for just a

> few hours in 8 years!) never go out to dinner because

> the food might not be 'pure or perfect'. I want to

> keep alive my cultural and family traditions - even

> the food ones. I want to make my grandmother's canoli

> and ravioli, not a 'version' of them.

I totally agree. I'd rather have real ravioli and pizza a few times a

year than a " soaked " or " sourdough " strange version more often. Some

things are just meant to be eaten in their original version.

> And I love to travel - next to my famiy it's my great

> joy. I would never want to miss out on all I've seen

> and done because I don't know what kind of food they

> would have there or because late at night on the way

> home from the airport the only place to get food might

> be McDs. Or when I'm there, miss part of the

> experience because I " m too busy worrying about where

> to get 'the right' food' - part of the experience is

> eating what they eat.

That's so true. When I visit my relatives in Basilicata (Southern

Italy) there is no way I'm going to turn down their homemade pasta

because it's not on my OK list. Imagine, I did once turn down my

husband's aunt's homemade fettuccine. I felt so bad about doing it

and will never do it again.

>

> I'm here, so obviously I care a great deal about

> healthy food. I do what I can, what fits into my life

> and every day add a little more - then choose not to

> let the rest stress me. Otherwise, what kind of life

> would it be for me or my family? And there are no

> guarantees in life, no matter how well we eat.

> Whatever life I have, I want to enjoy it my way, or

> what is it worth?

>

> CJ

You basically summed up in a nutshell what my original post was about.

Yeah, it's great to eat well, but you can't let it consume your life.

And there are no guarantees. Look at Adele .

Dawn

October 20, 2004

> NAPD and food obsession