Re: OCD, Tourette's and rage

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn. I am wondering, is your son on meds? Is he taking an SSRI by any

chance? Stormy

________________________________

To:

Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 4:04:59 PM

Subject: OCD, Tourette's and rage

He had a horrible incident at school a couple of days ago - he was angry &

defiant - staff tried to get him to deep breathe (which works wonders for his

panic attacks and when his anger creeps up on him slower) or leave the class to

calm down (which usually works too and in fact he uses this for tics, panic and

anixety too) but he was having none of it. They tried to seperate him from the

class to no avail, he completely ignored all staff members.

Dawn

[Guest guest]

Yes - he is on Intuniv for the TS and Celexa for the OCD -- he has previously

been on Prozac and Lexapro .. and Risperdal for a couple of weeks but he had a

psychosomatic reaction to that so it was stopped.

>

> Hi Dawn. I am wondering, is your son on meds? Is he taking an SSRI by any

> chance? Stormy

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To:

> Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 4:04:59 PM

> Subject: OCD, Tourette's and rage

>

>

>

>

> He had a horrible incident at school a couple of days ago - he was angry &

> defiant - staff tried to get him to deep breathe (which works wonders for his

> panic attacks and when his anger creeps up on him slower) or leave the class

to

> calm down (which usually works too and in fact he uses this for tics, panic

and

> anixety too) but he was having none of it. They tried to seperate him from

the

> class to no avail, he completely ignored all staff members.

>

>

> Dawn

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dawn, I am wondering if it is possible that the Celexa could have caused him to

swing into a manic episode? How has he been since that episode? Does he have any

major sleep disturbances? Did this episode scare him? My dd is bipolar and any

episodes she had scared her because she felt so out of control on the inside as

well as the outside. I am sorry this happened. How is the school reacting?

Stormy

________________________________

To:

Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 6:49:03 PM

Subject: Re: OCD, Tourette's and rage

Yes - he is on Intuniv for the TS and Celexa for the OCD -- he has previously

been on Prozac and Lexapro .. and Risperdal for a couple of weeks but he had a

psychosomatic reaction to that so it was stopped.

>

> Hi Dawn. I am wondering, is your son on meds? Is he taking an SSRI by any

> chance? Stormy

>

>

> Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

[Guest guest]

Dawn, so sorry both you and your son went through this, and are having to deal

with anger/rage. It is very scary and disturbing, and not knowing the cause or

what to do is equally upsetting.

We dealt with a lot of anger and behavior. When you say it came on suddenly, I

suspect the OCD. With the extreme, out of control rage though, I would suspect

medication, or as Stormy says, perhaps mania. I can tell you that we had

extremes with our son, due to medication, ping pong tables over turned, punched

walls, and more.

Our son is very med sensitive, and actually flipped into mania/psychosis when an

anti-psychotic was added to a too high dose of ssri(60mg celexa was too high for

our son we learned). The atypical was added to help manage the anger, but had

the opposite effect. This is not typical. It happened within days of starting

the second drug.

You mentioned an anti-psychotic was given but then stopped, there might be a

correlation. Any changes for someone who is sensitive can cause an increase in

symptoms and behavior, our experience of it. Their brain is being affected, and

there is instability with change.

It was suggested by Dr.Geller(psychiatrist on this site), that for some, these

medications can cause lowering of inhibitions, and cause them to act out of

character. I suggest you post to Dr.Geller, and perhaps Dr.Chansky also and ask

their advice/opinion on this.

When you use the words, " this was not your son " , that is exactly how we felt.

It was horrifying and confusing. We were two years living with this and

searching for answers. Our son was in an outpatient hospital based program for

nine months, observing for bipolar(there is a family history) or other, in the

end they did not diagnose anything beyond the OCD. Bipolar symptoms were

triggered by the medications, but without those medications stopped, so this is

not true bipolar.

For us it was medication based for the worst of it. But our son still would

have outbursts around OCD based things that were a " 10 " for him. Those

outbursts were short lived though, and specific to the incident. When he

learned how to manage the OCD they grew to be less and less.

He can still " snap " , but he has better impulse control.

We reduced his medication, celexa from 20mg to 10mg, when he was doing better

for a year, and he reports that he has more self control now, even though the

OCD is more present, he would rather deal with that than the medication side

effects for him. So, this has been a trade off choice.

Something that I believe happened with our son, was that he learned that

physically letting out his anger relieved the pressure, and then he developed

this as a form of ritual/habit. He said if he did not do this he could feel

sick with anxiety for days, so felt compelled to do it. We of course could not

live with someone punching holes in our walls..... It was a very dark time for

us.

Our son was given a mood stabilizer for a period of time to calm this down. I

think it helped, but then we seemed to lose him even more, and believed it was

due to the mood stabilizer.

Long story short, medications altered our son. When we finally removed them

all, his choice, cold turkey(don't recommend this), for a month, we had our son

back, with severe OCD and not able to function(but we could clearly see our

son). We then went low dose with ssri only, and reached a point of stability

within a few months (after almost two years of hell).

No one has ever been able to explain our son's reactions to medications. And I

don't think doctors really believed medications could do this. We as parents

were blamed in the beginning, until he was hospitalized. Answers were never

found, we just decided, enough, and started making choices, and insisting

medications be reduced and then removed.

Something we learned after all this, through private assessment, is that our son

is on the autism spectrum, and that medications sometimes need to be handled

differently for this population (high sensitivity/lower dose). Sure would have

been nice to have this information prior...

After saying all that, the other possibility is that your son does not have

enough medication to help manage the anxiety and is not able to cope. Coupled

with the onset of adolescence, with shots of testosterone, and they metabolize

medication differently. So, there could be a few things going on to cause

medication to need to be looked at.

Not sure if any of that is helpful to you Dawn, but just want you to know you

are not alone in going through this kind of thing. In the five years I've been

on this site I have heard others tell similar stories, and search for answers.

Most often it was medication based, or something else besides just OCD was going

on. I really hope you have good doctors to help you sort this out, and again,

consider posting the doctors here.

How is your son now? Have you been able to talk with him about it? As Stormy

says, this is very scary for them to feel so out of control. If you continue to

have concerns and can't get into your psychiatrist, consider a visit to emerg -

do you have a good children's hospital that handles mental health?

I really feel for you. This is so hard to go through. Hoping you find the

answers you need soon.

Sending you hugs!

Barb

Canada

Son, 19, OCD, PDD-NOS

>

> Hi - my son is soon to be 11 and has had OCD and TS several years now - he

also about 2 years ago started having panic attacks. When the tics and anixety

are low he is extremely loving and not easily frustrated, however when the tics

and anixety are up he becomes easily frustrated... the last year or so we have

seen what I can only describe as rage - SUDDEN and violent ... he does see a

psycharist and a psychologist .. he has stratigies in place to use for his

anger/frustration but there are times when the anger comes so quickly that it

overtakes him and he is just in a rage until the feeling subsides.

>

> He had a horrible incident at school a couple of days ago - he was angry &

defiant - staff tried to get him to deep breathe (which works wonders for his

panic attacks and when his anger creeps up on him slower) or leave the class to

calm down (which usually works too and in fact he uses this for tics, panic and

anixety too) but he was having none of it. They tried to seperate him from the

class to no avail, he completely ignored all staff members.

>

> I was called in to help and we eventually got him outside and called in a male

staff to hold onto him - my son proceeded to kick, hit, punch and try to

headbutt this teacher over and over all while using horrible language. I was

told that before i got there he was over turning desks and had kicked another

teacher too.

>

> We eventually got him calmed down (it was about an hour process once I got

there) And the staff said over and over that this was not my son - this was not

the kid they know (he has been at this school since he was 5) .. they are

worried and he seemed to spiral out of control very quickly.

>

> I am not sure what I want by posting this - maybe to know that we are not

alone ... some advice as to what to do ...

>

> Dawn

>

[Guest guest]

It must be hard with the TS to find medications that don't increase

the tics.

And your son is so young.

Have you had him to a pediatric neurologist?

I would see one for advice. It may be that an anti-convulsant

drug will treat the TS and stabize his moods.

Anti-convulsant drugs regulate neurotransmitters in the brain

other than serotonin and dopamine. You can ask to have an

EEG even though he doesn't have seizures, kids that have

a similar EEG to epilepsy (without having it) respond well

to the ant-convulsant drugs (according to Mt. Sinai Autism Center, NYC, Dr.

Hollander).

They can act as a mood stabizer for some kids that don't respond

to SSRIs for anger, rispedal or abilify.

Kids with issues that are neurological like TS (or PDD) need doses kept very

very low. So many pediatric psychiatrist don't seem to

get this. Neurologists do.

It is scary to trial medications in children.

But it must be so upsetting to your son to have gotten

this angry and in public. I feel sorry for him that this happened.

It must frighten him too to get this angry.

I hope you find him help,

Pam

>

> Hi - my son is soon to be 11 and has had OCD and TS several years now - he

also about 2 years ago started having panic attacks. When the tics and anixety

are low he is extremely loving and not easily frustrated, however when the tics

and anixety are up he becomes easily frustrated... the last year or so we have

seen what I can only describe as rage - SUDDEN and violent ... he does see a

psycharist and a psychologist .. he has stratigies in place to use for his

anger/frustration but there are times when the anger comes so quickly that it

overtakes him and he is just in a rage until the feeling subsides.

>

> He had a horrible incident at school a couple of days ago - he was angry &

defiant - staff tried to get him to deep breathe (which works wonders for his

panic attacks and when his anger creeps up on him slower) or leave the class to

calm down (which usually works too and in fact he uses this for tics, panic and

anixety too) but he was having none of it. They tried to seperate him from the

class to no avail, he completely ignored all staff members.

>

> I was called in to help and we eventually got him outside and called in a male

staff to hold onto him - my son proceeded to kick, hit, punch and try to

headbutt this teacher over and over all while using horrible language. I was

told that before i got there he was over turning desks and had kicked another

teacher too.

>

> We eventually got him calmed down (it was about an hour process once I got

there) And the staff said over and over that this was not my son - this was not

the kid they know (he has been at this school since he was 5) .. they are

worried and he seemed to spiral out of control very quickly.

>

> I am not sure what I want by posting this - maybe to know that we are not

alone ... some advice as to what to do ...

>

> Dawn

>

[Guest guest]

Hmmm - dunno - he has been on the Celexa for probably a year now so?

He has been just fine - that is one of the things about all this - he is 95% of

the time such a good natured kid .... He has been falling asleep ALOT lately ..

we have been thinking maybe cause of the Intuniv cause he has only been on that

about 4 months and when he was on Tenex before the Intuniv that would make him

tired. But he has been on the Intuniv long enough that tiredness should have

worn off.

He has not said he is scared - what he does say is that he is SO sorry - and

" why do I get so angry so fast " ... then he just feels so bad about himself and

such that he will often " punish " himself for a bit after these episodes .. like

go to his room and just sit on his bed because " I don't deserve to do anything "

and he will say he is a bad kid.

The school has been WONDERFUL - he had one other bad incident this year where he

threatened to kill his teacher and even then they said that while they could

expell him for that they weren't cause they know that is " not " my son .. they

have known since Kindergarten that he has TS and OCD and they see him as a good

kid with some challenges rather than a bad kid.

I found out recently that we have bipolar and schizo (dont' know how to spell

the rest of that!) as well as severe depression on my dad's side of the family

> >

> > Hi Dawn. I am wondering, is your son on meds? Is he taking an SSRI by any

> > chance? Stormy

> >

> >

> > Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Pam, this is definitely not always the case. My dd has aspergers in addition to

bipolar and severe anxiety. She has had to have high doses of all of her meds,

as it was the only way for her to be functional. Low doses kept her severely

disabled. She takes atypical and mood stabilizers. Stormy

________________________________

To:

Sent: Sat, March 5, 2011 1:36:51 AM

Subject: Re: OCD, Tourette's and rage

Kids with issues that are neurological like TS (or PDD) need doses kept very

very low. So many pediatric psychiatrist don't seem to

get this. Neurologists do.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for sharing your story - I appreciate it so much!

I too think OCD - if I think back over the years all his episodes seem to center

around OCDish stuff ... he has had incidents of this type for years now (he is

almost 11) but they are escalating in intensity and frequency. Years ago he may

have exploded a few times a year for 10-15 minutes and with mostly just angry

yelling and knocking over a few items. It is only March and I would say we have

had at least 3 so far - and now he is violent to others and himself, they last

longer, come on more suddenly and end more suddenly ...etc.

The Risperdal start/stop happended last July - so not thinking that is an issue

---

We too have a history of bipolar in our family ... just found this out recently

you have given me lots to think about - thank you

> >

> > Hi - my son is soon to be 11 and has had OCD and TS several years now - he

also about 2 years ago started having panic attacks. When the tics and anixety

are low he is extremely loving and not easily frustrated, however when the tics

and anixety are up he becomes easily frustrated... the last year or so we have

seen what I can only describe as rage - SUDDEN and violent ... he does see a

psycharist and a psychologist .. he has stratigies in place to use for his

anger/frustration but there are times when the anger comes so quickly that it

overtakes him and he is just in a rage until the feeling subsides.

> >

> > He had a horrible incident at school a couple of days ago - he was angry &

defiant - staff tried to get him to deep breathe (which works wonders for his

panic attacks and when his anger creeps up on him slower) or leave the class to

calm down (which usually works too and in fact he uses this for tics, panic and

anixety too) but he was having none of it. They tried to seperate him from the

class to no avail, he completely ignored all staff members.

> >

> > I was called in to help and we eventually got him outside and called in a

male staff to hold onto him - my son proceeded to kick, hit, punch and try to

headbutt this teacher over and over all while using horrible language. I was

told that before i got there he was over turning desks and had kicked another

teacher too.

> >

> > We eventually got him calmed down (it was about an hour process once I got

there) And the staff said over and over that this was not my son - this was not

the kid they know (he has been at this school since he was 5) .. they are

worried and he seemed to spiral out of control very quickly.

> >

> > I am not sure what I want by posting this - maybe to know that we are not

alone ... some advice as to what to do ...

> >

> > Dawn

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My son initially was dx'd and saw a pedactric neuro for a few years - we actully

switched to a psycharist and a psychologist when he started having anger

explosions - his neuro felt that a psycharist would better serve him med-wise.

We are losing out psycharist and getting another one - so maybe this one will

have some different suggestions for us

Thanks!

> >

> > Hi - my son is soon to be 11 and has had OCD and TS several years now - he

also about 2 years ago started having panic attacks. When the tics and anixety

are low he is extremely loving and not easily frustrated, however when the tics

and anixety are up he becomes easily frustrated... the last year or so we have

seen what I can only describe as rage - SUDDEN and violent ... he does see a

psycharist and a psychologist .. he has stratigies in place to use for his

anger/frustration but there are times when the anger comes so quickly that it

overtakes him and he is just in a rage until the feeling subsides.

> >

> > He had a horrible incident at school a couple of days ago - he was angry &

defiant - staff tried to get him to deep breathe (which works wonders for his

panic attacks and when his anger creeps up on him slower) or leave the class to

calm down (which usually works too and in fact he uses this for tics, panic and

anixety too) but he was having none of it. They tried to seperate him from the

class to no avail, he completely ignored all staff members.

> >

> > I was called in to help and we eventually got him outside and called in a

male staff to hold onto him - my son proceeded to kick, hit, punch and try to

headbutt this teacher over and over all while using horrible language. I was

told that before i got there he was over turning desks and had kicked another

teacher too.

> >

> > We eventually got him calmed down (it was about an hour process once I got

there) And the staff said over and over that this was not my son - this was not

the kid they know (he has been at this school since he was 5) .. they are

worried and he seemed to spiral out of control very quickly.

> >

> > I am not sure what I want by posting this - maybe to know that we are not

alone ... some advice as to what to do ...

> >

> > Dawn

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn, just want to say how sorry I am you're dealing with this. Especially

hard when trying to figure out the *why* of the outbursts. What dose Celexa is

he on, has it been a while since an increase? Almost 11, could be a bit of the

puberty hormone stuff starting.

My oldest son (almost 26, no OCD) began having panic/anxiety attacks in the

recent last years and I know at times he has felt anger with them. A doctor

gave him some Xanax to take as needed a few months ago. Last I asked (I need to

ask again!) he hadn't tried one yet, he was trying to calm himself down and not

take a Xanax; but wondering if something to take " as needed " would help your son

with panic attacks? (yeah, hate to add another med I know)

I know meds could cause anger (and other behaviors) but your son isn't dealing

with this daily? and no recent change in any meds I guess, which might trigger

something new....

I've told this here before, but my experience helps me to understand what can

happen with others - Back in my " young days " when I was on birth control pills,

my doctor switched me to some new ones. And it took me 2-3 months to figure out

that THIS was why I felt like just punching people in the face (I didn't) but I

was just agitated or something, so unlike myself. And when I figured out it

started with the new BC pills, I stopped them and went back to my old sweet self

that week. Really, I was not in control of my mood/feelings, tho luckily was

aware of them and managed not to act on impulse (punch someone, lol). So I

never discount what some " med " may cause with people.

I'm glad the school is so supportive! It helps when they've known your child

" forever " and can tell when something is " unlike them " with issues that come up

like this. And puberty, wow, the emotions with that can really differ per

person, I remember mine being so up/down at times. And it was around 10 and 11

that I saw signs starting with my 3 sons, more the emotional than physical.

Hang in there and keep us updated!

>

> Hi - my son is soon to be 11 and has had OCD and TS several years now - he

also about 2 years ago started having panic attacks. When the tics and anixety

are low he is extremely loving and not easily frustrated, however when the tics

and anixety are up he becomes easily frustrated... the last year or so we have

seen what I can only describe as rage - SUDDEN and violent ... he does see a

psycharist and a psychologist .. he has stratigies in place to use for his

anger/frustration but there are times when the anger comes so quickly

[Guest guest]

My son has OCD and he's bipolar. He has the same set of symptoms you describe,

tics, rage, panick, ADD symptoms and all. He's also a very good natured and

kind person when his symptoms are less. He's very sensitive to medications and

it has been incredibly hard to find a balance. We eventually put him in a

private school and found a psychiatrist who specializes in

psychopharmacology....it has made a difference so far.

I would make several suggestions...1) call your doctor to discuss the

possibility of a bipolar spectrum disorder or something else instead of

Tourette's (which may be possible too) 2) make sure the school understands his

psychological concerns and get an IEP 3) review the meds he's on and the

possibility that they are at the root of his symptoms (even nonstimulant ADHD

drugs can cause depressive or bipolar symptoms) 4) do some reading about mood

disorders and handling children in rage so that you can at least lessen the

impact of rage on the family and him 5) Email me anytime if you need someone to

talk to!

Bonnie

>

> Hi - my son is soon to be 11 and has had OCD and TS several years now - he

also about 2 years ago started having panic attacks. When the tics and anixety

are low he is extremely loving and not easily frustrated, however when the tics

and anixety are up he becomes easily frustrated... the last year or so we have

seen what I can only describe as rage - SUDDEN and violent ... he does see a

psycharist and a psychologist .. he has stratigies in place to use for his

anger/frustration but there are times when the anger comes so quickly that it

overtakes him and he is just in a rage until the feeling subsides.

>

> He had a horrible incident at school a couple of days ago - he was angry &

defiant - staff tried to get him to deep breathe (which works wonders for his

panic attacks and when his anger creeps up on him slower) or leave the class to

calm down (which usually works too and in fact he uses this for tics, panic and

anixety too) but he was having none of it. They tried to seperate him from the

class to no avail, he completely ignored all staff members.

>

> I was called in to help and we eventually got him outside and called in a male

staff to hold onto him - my son proceeded to kick, hit, punch and try to

headbutt this teacher over and over all while using horrible language. I was

told that before i got there he was over turning desks and had kicked another

teacher too.

>

> We eventually got him calmed down (it was about an hour process once I got

there) And the staff said over and over that this was not my son - this was not

the kid they know (he has been at this school since he was 5) .. they are

worried and he seemed to spiral out of control very quickly.

>

> I am not sure what I want by posting this - maybe to know that we are not

alone ... some advice as to what to do ...

>

> Dawn

>

[Guest guest]

Bonnie - I didn't recall that your son was dx with bipolar. Was that recent? I

recall you were looking into PANDAS. And I thought wondering if he were on the

autism spectrum or NVLD or something maybe (don't trust my memory). But totally

missed the bipolar part.

>

> My son has OCD and he's bipolar. He has the same set of symptoms you

describe, tics, rage, panick, ADD symptoms and all. He's also a very good

natured and kind person when his symptoms are less. He's very sensitive to

medications and it has been incredibly hard to find a balance. We eventually

put him in a private school and found a psychiatrist who specializes in

psychopharmacology....it has made a

[Guest guest]

Since you mention the bipolar history I would definitely look into this

possibility and at the medication as a contributing factor. What may have been

fine, may have become problematic. Bipolar onset can begin in adolescence,

although they tend not to diagnose until later teens.

Specific to the OCD though, and related to this age and stage, they are

asserting more, and are perhaps less inhibited or able to contain their

impulses. I think the level of anger that can come up for boys (thinking

testosterone), is something they need to learn how to manage. And/or the

underlying feelings, in the case of OCD, the fear. Instead of allowing the fear

they move to anger, it is more powerful, and allows them to feel strong instead

of weak.

I know this was an obsession of our sons, not wanting to feel weak and

powerless, which is exactly how he felt against the OCD. So, this fit

completely with the lashing out and feeling powerful, instead of allowing the

feelings of weakness/powerlessness.

Our son's outbursts were mostly restricted to behind closed door. He had enough

self control/ability to contain it until he got home, where he felt safe to let

it out, as with the OCD. If your son is losing it publicly, I'm thinking the

anxiety, or something else is not adequately managed, and might need medication

to do so. The fact that he has remorse is a good sign, and also points to OCD.

Our son would say he had no remorse, and that was very concerning, but he was

trying to be " macho " , and had a persona wrapped around the whole thing, again an

OCD thing. I'll spare you that story.... There really is no limit to where the

OCD can take them, and the lengths they will go to in order to accommodate the

obsessions.

Do you know what is setting him off at school? Have you been able to talk to

your son since? There can be a large amount of paranoid thinking, and feeling

others are against them, as things others do sets off the OCD. Ours took this

very personally and would then feel justified in retaliation. Complete lack of

insight, and again, that desire to feel strong not weak.

Just some thoughts as I look back over times I'd just as soon forget. But I

remember the puzzle of it all, and how much it helped to hear from anyone who

had gone through similar and shared experiences. As much as anything I found it

helped to not feel like the only person dealing with this kind of thing. We

were told repeatedly by professionals that this kind of behavior is not OCD.

Well, from what I've heard from others it is not at all uncommon. When kids

can't cope they usually do express it through behavior.

Hang in there Dawn. Keep us updated.

Warmly,

Barb

>

> Thank you for sharing your story - I appreciate it so much!

>

> I too think OCD - if I think back over the years all his episodes seem to

center around OCDish stuff ... he has had incidents of this type for years now

(he is almost 11) but they are escalating in intensity and frequency. Years ago

he may have exploded a few times a year for 10-15 minutes and with mostly just

angry yelling and knocking over a few items. It is only March and I would say

we have had at least 3 so far - and now he is violent to others and himself,

they last longer, come on more suddenly and end more suddenly ...etc.

>

>

> The Risperdal start/stop happended last July - so not thinking that is an

issue ---

>

> We too have a history of bipolar in our family ... just found this out

recently

>

> you have given me lots to think about - thank you

>

> he completely ignored all staff members.

> > >

>

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Just quoting, both Mass General Hospital and Mt. Sinai Autism Center NYC, it

can't hurt to start low as suggested and increase

up if adverse affects are not experienced. I didn't

remember that MGH suggests 1/10 the starting dose for

developmental disorders.

http://www2.massgeneral.org/schoolpsychiatry/info_autism.asp#treated_medicines

Pam

>

> Pam, this is definitely not always the case. My dd has aspergers in addition

to

> bipolar and severe anxiety. She has had to have high doses of all of her meds,

> as it was the only way for her to be functional. Low doses kept her severely

> disabled. She takes atypical and mood stabilizers. Stormy

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To:

> Sent: Sat, March 5, 2011 1:36:51 AM

> Subject: Re: OCD, Tourette's and rage

>

>

> Kids with issues that are neurological like TS (or PDD) need doses kept very

> very low. So many pediatric psychiatrist don't seem to

>

> get this. Neurologists do.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That looks like it is talking about treating the symptoms when they are caused

by autism spectrum. " Physicians prescribe these medications to treat particular

ASD symptoms. For two reasons, these medications are often used in much lower

doses when treating ASD than when treating other conditions. " I was referring

to symptoms caused by something like bipolar, when the child also has a autism

spectrum disorder. In my dd's case her bipolar symptoms require high doses of

meds because those symptoms are not from her Aspergers. I know that some

symptoms of autism spectrum may resemble bipolar but aren't. Sometimes the

child, like my dd, was just too ill to take the time to go up slowly. Stormy

________________________________

To:

Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 12:12:45 AM

Subject: Re: OCD, Tourette's and rage

Just quoting, both Mass General Hospital and Mt. Sinai Autism Center NYC, it

can't hurt to start low as suggested and increase

up if adverse affects are not experienced. I didn't

remember that MGH suggests 1/10 the starting dose for

developmental disorders.

http://www2.massgeneral.org/schoolpsychiatry/info_autism.asp#treated_medicines

Pam

>

> Pam, this is definitely not always the case. My dd has aspergers in addition

to

>

> bipolar and severe anxiety. She has had to have high doses of all of her meds,

> as it was the only way for her to be functional. Low doses kept her severely

> disabled. She takes atypical and mood stabilizers. Stormy

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To:

> Sent: Sat, March 5, 2011 1:36:51 AM

> Subject: Re: OCD, Tourette's and rage

>

>

> Kids with issues that are neurological like TS (or PDD) need doses kept very

> very low. So many pediatric psychiatrist don't seem to

>

> get this. Neurologists do.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, it is really hard to treat people especially with multiple

conditions.

Pam

> >

> > Pam, this is definitely not always the case. My dd has aspergers in addition

to

> >

> > bipolar and severe anxiety. She has had to have high doses of all of her

meds,

>

> > as it was the only way for her to be functional. Low doses kept her severely

> > disabled. She takes atypical and mood stabilizers. Stormy

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: Pamela <susanonderko@>

> > To:

> > Sent: Sat, March 5, 2011 1:36:51 AM

> > Subject: Re: OCD, Tourette's and rage

> >

> >

> > Kids with issues that are neurological like TS (or PDD) need doses kept very

> > very low. So many pediatric psychiatrist don't seem to

> >

> > get this. Neurologists do.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >