Re: Looking for advice - Intro

[Guest guest]

Rakhi,

Have you tried Melatonin to help get her to sleep. It does wonders for us.

Beth in Houston

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of r.mcauliffe@...

Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 7:00 AM

To:

Subject: Looking for advice - Intro

Hello all,

My daughter was born in November 2004 and from day one has refused to

sleep. We fought and fought with her until she turned 3 1/2 when we

finally started to see a child psychologist and heard the diagnosis that she

has OCD behaviour and high anxiety. When we realized that it wasn't us and

we weren't doing anything wrong in trying to get her to sleep, it was like a

weight lifted. But that diagnosis also brought with it a lot of questions

and fear. For over 3 years we would spend hours listening to her scream not

wanting to go to sleep or be alone in a room in her own house. To this day

she still refuses to be alone in a room. She won't go into her room to play

or stay in the family room if I need to go and change my son's diaper.

Well since we moved (it's been a month) things have really gone down hill.

We had about a year of her being able to go to bed with a very specific

routine, and sleeping through the night. It has now become a dialy battle of

not only getting her to sleep, but getting her to go to bed at her bedtime

and not ours. We are tired of the struggle and just want it to end.

I guess I'm trying to find other parents who have techniques or an

understanding of what I'm going through, and any advice on how to help a 5

year old through anxiety and her OCD.

Thank you

rakhi

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01:35:00

[Guest guest]

We use Clonedine, given at about 5:30, and our 5 year old usually is then

able to sleep by 8 PM. Good luck!

> Rakhi,

>

>

>

> Have you tried Melatonin to help get her to sleep. It does wonders for

> us.

>

>

>

> Beth in Houston

>

>

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On Behalf Of

> r.mcauliffe@...

> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 7:00 AM

> To:

> Subject: Looking for advice - Intro

>

>

>

>

>

> Hello all,

>

> My daughter was born in November 2004 and from day one has refused to

> sleep. We fought and fought with her until she turned 3 1/2 when we

> finally started to see a child psychologist and heard the diagnosis that

> she

> has OCD behaviour and high anxiety. When we realized that it wasn't us and

> we weren't doing anything wrong in trying to get her to sleep, it was like

> a

> weight lifted. But that diagnosis also brought with it a lot of questions

> and fear. For over 3 years we would spend hours listening to her scream

> not

> wanting to go to sleep or be alone in a room in her own house. To this day

> she still refuses to be alone in a room. She won't go into her room to

> play

> or stay in the family room if I need to go and change my son's diaper.

>

> Well since we moved (it's been a month) things have really gone down hill.

> We had about a year of her being able to go to bed with a very specific

> routine, and sleeping through the night. It has now become a dialy battle

> of

> not only getting her to sleep, but getting her to go to bed at her bedtime

> and not ours. We are tired of the struggle and just want it to end.

>

> I guess I'm trying to find other parents who have techniques or an

> understanding of what I'm going through, and any advice on how to help a 5

> year old through anxiety and her OCD.

>

> Thank you

> rakhi

>

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

> Version: 9.0.839 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3009 - Release Date: 07/16/10

> 01:35:00

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My daughter was like this too from infancy to the age of 11

when she finally started on medication for anxiety (zoloft).

I sleep many years on a maitress on the floor in her room.

With me in the room my daughter sleep well and would

not get up in the middle of the night.

It may also be that your child has other learning

issues or developmental disorder. When kids so young

have problems from infancy it may be they also have

sensory, visual spatial and other cognitive differences

that make life difficult. If anxiety increases with school

it will be helpful to look for learning disorders too.

Sleep is so important to a person's well being. It is better

that she sleep on a maitress in your room or you in hers

on the floor though than sleeping together. You will both

sleep better. I found that if I left her room and went

back to mine she would wake up and find me or stay up.

If this was a behavior issue you would want to address

it. It was not for us. Once my daughter was on medication

at age 11, she wanted to sleep in her room and wanted

privacy.

I found telling my daughter any time I went into another

room helped her, I would rehearse with her if she wants

me where to find me. This helped her a lot.

I also read about Bipolar in children since so many BP

kids have so many sleep issues, waking up, nightmares.

It is worth reading about. BP kids often have serious

separation issues. I wanted to make sure my daughter

did not have BP before we used an SSRI medication

(zoloft). These medications can make BP worse.

I found that increased anxiety during the school year

also made these problems of sleep and separation

far worse.

It is a real struggle, but for us it has gotten better

with medication.

Pam

osnatsleeping on the floor). Now at 12 she is calmer (thanks

to the medication) and wants to sleep in her own bed with the

door closed.

She does prefer a very small bedroom in the house and she likes

the cozy feeling of sleeping in a bottom bunk of a bunk bed,

even though she did have a normal size room and full size

bed.

Looking back I am glad I did what she needed (sleeping on the

floor) because I can see it did not spoil her into wanting

me always there. It is so sad isn't it that the anxiety is

so high.

It seems to me that most child psychiatrists really

want to wait and be conservative with medication.

>

> Hello all,

>

> My daughter was born in November 2004 and from day one has refused to

> sleep. We fought and fought with her until she turned 3 1/2 when we

> finally started to see a child psychologist and heard the diagnosis that she

has OCD behaviour and high anxiety. When we realized that it wasn't us and we

weren't doing anything wrong in trying to get her to sleep, it was like a weight

lifted. But that diagnosis also brought with it a lot of questions and fear. For

over 3 years we would spend hours listening to her scream not wanting to go to

sleep or be alone in a room in her own house. To this day she still refuses to

be alone in a room. She won't go into her room to play or stay in the family

room if I need to go and change my son's diaper.

>

> Well since we moved (it's been a month) things have really gone down hill. We

had about a year of her being able to go to bed with a very specific routine,

and sleeping through the night. It has now become a dialy battle of not only

getting her to sleep, but getting her to go to bed at her bedtime and not ours.

We are tired of the struggle and just want it to end.

>

> I guess I'm trying to find other parents who have techniques or an

understanding of what I'm going through, and any advice on how to help a 5 year

old through anxiety and her OCD.

>

> Thank you

> rakhi

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you all for your advice. I forgot to mention that I'm in Ottawa and am

looking for a new Dr for her. I've got a call into Dr. Anand Prabhu, so if you

know him please provide some reviews.

I am very torn between sleeping with her and not wanting to start a new

" routine " . It seems every time we try something new it becomes part of that

routine and ritual. I don't want to sleep with her because I don't know if she

is screaming and crying because she is a very determined (aka stubborn) 5 year

old throwing a tantrum and just not wanting to go to bed, or if she is really

having the anxiety of being alone. I do know that if we don't get her to bed by

a certain time then it's all over...it'll take hours to get her down. The

problem is that it's at 8pm and she can see everyone playing outside and doesn't

understand why she can't.

I'm not sure if I want to medicate her at this time. I would rather not, so any

advice on non-medication things (ie. homeopathic or supplements)?

thank you

rakhi

[Guest guest]

Melatonin is not a medication, which is why I use it. Benadryl is a

medication and can have the opposite effect in young children.

Beth

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of r.mcauliffe@...

Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 11:28 AM

To:

Subject: Re: Looking for advice - Intro

Thank you all for your advice. I forgot to mention that I'm in Ottawa and am

looking for a new Dr for her. I've got a call into Dr. Anand Prabhu, so if

you know him please provide some reviews.

I am very torn between sleeping with her and not wanting to start a new

" routine " . It seems every time we try something new it becomes part of that

routine and ritual. I don't want to sleep with her because I don't know if

she is screaming and crying because she is a very determined (aka stubborn)

5 year old throwing a tantrum and just not wanting to go to bed, or if she

is really having the anxiety of being alone. I do know that if we don't get

her to bed by a certain time then it's all over...it'll take hours to get

her down. The problem is that it's at 8pm and she can see everyone playing

outside and doesn't understand why she can't.

I'm not sure if I want to medicate her at this time. I would rather not, so

any advice on non-medication things (ie. homeopathic or supplements)?

thank you

rakhi

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01:35:00

[Guest guest]

Here is a behavior shaping strategy. Would you want to try something like this?

It won't matter if the problem is behavior or emotional. This type of strategy

is used for kids that are defiant. It is a gradual exposure strategy that many

anxious kids respond to. It is also a strategy used with kids with autism that

take a long time to learn things.

I didn't use this for sleep but I use strategies like this for

school refusal and medical refusal.

You can try first to shape her laying down quietly, listening to a book quietly

and calmly at bed time (first step is fairly easy) then you reward and praise

her calm behavior!!! Yeah!!! Then saying prayers calmly (more praise).

Next what do you think will work ....do you want to try

jumping right into checking on her every 5 minutes or

if this is not likely to work rehearse with her during the

day?

Checking every 5 minutes: tell her you will sit outside the door and check on

her every 5 minutes and if she is calm you will put another sticker on her

chart. If she can manage every 5 minutes for a few nights than try every 10

minutes after that. Hopefully your checks will not go on more than an hour. Make

sure you are praising her for her calmness, and try very very hard not to be

annoyed,

if she frets just say I can't give you a sticker.

Rehearsing when she needs you to sleep: If she can't manage the part where you

are checking on her then keep up the calm reading,

prayers and try variations on you checking on her ...

you can stay in the room at first and rehears during the day

you in the hallway and then some point later you with the

door closed.

Reheasing during the day: Say we are going to

pretend it is night and I will check on you every 5 minutes.

And try rehearsing like this until she is ready to try

with you at night calmly. But the rehearsing has to be with her in her bed and

you sitting outside her door with a watch. At first you can leave the door open

and you sit in the hallway. If she can do this for a day or two then try with

the door closed. If she can manage

that for a few days try it then at night. Reward her for rehearsing

with stickers that are used for treats, m & m, game time with Mom,

painting her nails etc.

Reward her for all attempts with extra books you read to her, or sing some

songs, play candyland, give her your attention 1:1 for 20 extra minutes, give

her an ice cream but never use punishments. Don't

say if you don't calm down " no ice cream " . If she doesn't

calm down you say " OK we will try a smaller step first...

be very positive .... "

However you have to break down these tasks to manage

all this do it ...so if at first you want to shape

her in bed for reading books calm and prayers and

then you let her sleep on the floor OK ...then

gradually practice during the day ...and so on.

I hope this helps. Usually kids with anxiety do respond

to very gradual exposures eventually. Hopefully

before you burn out ...it is a lot of work! You want

to shape very calm behavior at bed time a step at a time.

Even if she is a defiant kid this is the strategy used

with kids like that. I have had training with the

Yale Parent and Child Conduct Clinic in CT and they

deal with oppositional kids that have all sorts of

issues.

I hope this helps,

Pam

>

> Thank you all for your advice. I forgot to mention that I'm in Ottawa and am

looking for a new Dr for her. I've got a call into Dr. Anand Prabhu, so if you

know him please provide some reviews.

>

> I am very torn between sleeping with her and not wanting to start a new

" routine " . It seems every time we try something new it becomes part of that

routine and ritual. I don't want to sleep with her because I don't know if she

is screaming and crying because she is a very determined (aka stubborn) 5 year

old throwing a tantrum and just not wanting to go to bed, or if she is really

having the anxiety of being alone. I do know that if we don't get her to bed by

a certain time then it's all over...it'll take hours to get her down. The

problem is that it's at 8pm and she can see everyone playing outside and doesn't

understand why she can't.

>

> I'm not sure if I want to medicate her at this time. I would rather not, so

any advice on non-medication things (ie. homeopathic or supplements)?

> thank you

> rakhi

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Rakhi,

We are using homeopathy with my daughter 17 and my son, 15. They are

both adopted from Korea. My son, especially had a terrible time sleeping

and separating. If I had only known about homeopathy at that time, I

think it could have been a tremendous help. We are treating both

children now with homeopathy. My daughter has the more obvious issues -

aspergers, OCD, sensory stuff and sleep problems.

With my son, with sleep, he would cry until he threw up if we tried the

" cry until you sleep " tactic. I finally decided that his anxiety and

separation problems were so intense that he was unable to calm himself

and the endless crying was just more damaging to him. So we did lay down

with him. I think putting a mattress in your room is a good solution

(except for sex( But at least that way the child is not disturbing

your sleep and your own sleep is the most important thing. I found it

impossible to deal with my intense kids if I didn't have enough sleep.

Anyway - homeopathy has a lot of remedies for sleep. This would be a

chronic issue, so you would need to work with a very good classical

homeopath. A whole case needs to be taken to find the correct remedy. If

you are interested in some recommendations, I would be happy to help

you. We work with someone over the phone and you can also work long

distance with Skype if you don't have someone in your area.

Thanks, Sandy Seaman

----------

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02:35:00

[Guest guest]

Hi Rakhi,

I have an 8 yr old that can't be alone too. He is crying and tantruming right

now, because I won't lay with him.

 I feel bad because I know he has lots of anxiety and bad thoughts. I go

through

bouts with him, where he is in such a panic , I have to lay with him until he

goes to sleep. On other nights, I try to let him  calm himself,(which he really

can't do because he is alone with his horrible thoughts.)I attempt to have him

get himself to sleep. I think the reward chart that one of the other ladies on

here mentioned is a great idea, and it gives them positive reinforcement

instead

of negative.

I understand how you feel. You feel bad ,yet afer dealing with them all day, at

bedtime enough is enough!!

I wish you luck!

I think I'm going to try the chart with my son again as well. He needs it!!!

Just wanted to let you know you are not alone!

Keep us posted!

Hugs

Judy

________________________________

To:

Sent: Fri, July 16, 2010 8:00:06 AM

Subject: Looking for advice - Intro

 

Hello all,

My daughter was born in November 2004 and from day one has refused to

sleep. We fought and fought with her until she turned 3 1/2 when we

finally started to see a child psychologist and heard the diagnosis that she has

OCD behaviour and high anxiety. When we realized that it wasn't us and we

weren't doing anything wrong in trying to get her to sleep, it was like a weight

lifted. But that diagnosis also brought with it a lot of questions and fear. For

over 3 years we would spend hours listening to her scream not wanting to go to

sleep or be alone in a room in her own house. To this day she still refuses to

be alone in a room. She won't go into her room to play or stay in the family

room if I need to go and change my son's diaper.

Well since we moved (it's been a month) things have really gone down hill. We

had about a year of her being able to go to bed with a very specific routine,

and sleeping through the night. It has now become a dialy battle of not only

getting her to sleep, but getting her to go to bed at her bedtime and not ours.

We are tired of the struggle and just want it to end.

I guess I'm trying to find other parents who have techniques or an understanding

of what I'm going through, and any advice on how to help a 5 year old through

anxiety and her OCD.

Thank you

rakhi