Re: Bitter taste in milk - not sour

[Guest guest]

3

possibilities:

Pigweed

Subclinical

mastitis

Contamination

between milking and chilling

www.MajestyFarm.com

" What is ominous is the ease with which some people go from

saying that they don't like something to saying that the government should

forbid it. When you go down that road, don't expect freedom to survive very

long. " Sowell

From: RawDairy

[mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf

Of Sally Holdener

Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 9:31

AM

To: RawDairy

Subject: Bitter taste

in milk - not sour

I hope someone can help me figure

out what might be causing this. The milk from our cow share has had a

very bitter aftertaste occasionally in the last few months. It's not that

it's sour, it's definately a bitter taste on the back of the tongue. Our

farmer has changed some things in the last month to chill the milk faster, so

we don't think that is the problem. We are wondering if it could be lots

of wild onion and garlic in parts of his pastures (they really need work), or

cows that aren't healthy (mineral deficiencies?) or something else. He

did say he just added back (after being out of it for a couple weeks) kelp for

minerals, and it contains garlic for parasites, which I don't know if the kelp

he was giving them before had. He said it smells fishy, but I'd think

that would be the kelp, but then I don't have the experience with that

yet. So, if any of you have ever dealt with something like this, or have

some ideas, I'd love to hear what you can suggest.

Thanks!

Sally Holdener

Northern VA

[Guest guest]

4th Possibility:

Too Much Garlic

-----Original Message-----From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ]On Behalf Of kathryn russellSent: Friday, June 23, 2006 6:41 AMTo: RawDairy Subject: RE: Bitter taste in milk - not sour

3 possibilities:

Pigweed

Subclinical mastitis

Contamination between milking and chilling

www.MajestyFarm.com"What is ominous is the ease with which some people go from saying that they don't like something to saying that the government should forbid it. When you go down that road, don't expect freedom to survive very long." Sowell

From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of Sally HoldenerSent: Friday, June 23, 2006 9:31 AMTo: RawDairy Subject: Bitter taste in milk - not sour

I hope someone can help me figure out what might be causing this. The milk from our cow share has had a very bitter aftertaste occasionally in the last few months. It's not that it's sour, it's definately a bitter taste on the back of the tongue. Our farmer has changed some things in the last month to chill the milk faster, so we don't think that is the problem. We are wondering if it could be lots of wild onion and garlic in parts of his pastures (they really need work), or cows that aren't healthy (mineral deficiencies?) or something else. He did say he just added back (after being out of it for a couple weeks) kelp for minerals, and it contains garlic for parasites, which I don't know if the kelp he was giving them before had. He said it smells fishy, but I'd think that would be the kelp, but then I don't have the experience with that yet. So, if any of you have ever dealt with something like this, or have some ideas, I'd love to hear what you can suggest.

Thanks!

Sally Holdener

Northern VA

[Guest guest]

Most definitely. The do give what they eat and wild onions can really play havoc with milk. Even more in goats.

Ann StagnerTornado Alley Nubians & Boersville, AR

STOP NAIS NOW http://NoNAIS.org Arkansas_Against_NAIS

Should I Write My Congressman?Each Congressman has 2 ends, a thinking end and a sitting end. Since his Whole Success depends on his Seat, WHY BOTHER. (Chad Trio Early 70s)

Bitter taste in milk - not sour

I hope someone can help me figure out what might be causing this. The milk from our cow share has had a very bitter aftertaste occasionally in the last few months. It's not that it's sour, it's definately a bitter taste on the back of the tongue. Our farmer has changed some things in the last month to chill the milk faster, so we don't think that is the problem. We are wondering if it could be lots of wild onion and garlic in parts of his pastures (they really need work), or cows that aren't healthy (mineral deficiencies?) or something else. He did say he just added back (after being out of it for a couple weeks) kelp for minerals, and it contains garlic for parasites, which I don't know if the kelp he was giving them before had. He said it smells fishy, but I'd think that would be the kelp, but then I don't have the experience with that yet. So, if any of you have ever dealt with something like this, or have some ideas, I'd love to hear what you can suggest.

Thanks!

Sally Holdener

Northern VA

[Guest guest]

Garlic/onion

could be an issue, esp. if he is using the garlic added minerals. I did not

find that the countryside w/ kelp was sufficient for mine, not enough cu so I split

w/ a brood cow loose mineral. Never have noticed a flavor w/ it.

www.MajestyFarm.com

" What is ominous is the ease with which some people go from

saying that they don't like something to saying that the government should

forbid it. When you go down that road, don't expect freedom to survive very

long. " Sowell

From:

RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of Sally Holdener

Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 9:31

AM

To: RawDairy

Subject: Bitter taste

in milk - not sour

I hope someone can help me figure

out what might be causing this. The milk from our cow share has had a

very bitter aftertaste occasionally in the last few months. It's not that

it's sour, it's definately a bitter taste on the back of the tongue. Our

farmer has changed some things in the last month to chill the milk faster, so

we don't think that is the problem. We are wondering if it could be lots

of wild onion and garlic in parts of his pastures (they really need work), or

cows that aren't healthy (mineral deficiencies?) or something else. He

did say he just added back (after being out of it for a couple weeks) kelp for

minerals, and it contains garlic for parasites, which I don't know if the kelp

he was giving them before had. He said it smells fishy, but I'd think

that would be the kelp, but then I don't have the experience with that

yet. So, if any of you have ever dealt with something like this, or have

some ideas, I'd love to hear what you can suggest.

Thanks!

Sally Holdener

Northern VA

[Guest guest]

, what is the name of the mineral you use? Did you get it from Countryside? That's where our farmer is getting the kelp from now, I think. We told him we want him to give more minerals. Cu is copper, right?

Thanks, everyone!

Sally

Garlic/onion could be an issue, esp. if he is using the garlic added minerals. I did not find that the countryside w/ kelp was sufficient for mine, not enough cu so I split w/ a brood cow loose mineral. Never have noticed a flavor w/ it.

www.MajestyFarm.com"What is ominous is the ease with which some people go from saying that they don't like something to saying that the government should forbid it. When you go down that road, don't expect freedom to survive very long." Sowell

From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of Sally HoldenerSent: Friday, June 23, 2006 9:31 AMTo: RawDairy Subject: Bitter taste in milk - not sour

I hope someone can help me figure out what might be causing this. The milk from our cow share has had a very bitter aftertaste occasionally in the last few months. It's not that it's sour, it's definately a bitter taste on the back of the tongue. Our farmer has changed some things in the last month to chill the milk faster, so we don't think that is the problem. We are wondering if it could be lots of wild onion and garlic in parts of his pastures (they really need work), or cows that aren't healthy (mineral deficiencies?) or something else. He did say he just added back (after being out of it for a couple weeks) kelp for minerals, and it contains garlic for parasites, which I don't know if the kelp he was giving them before had. He said it smells fishy, but I'd think that would be the kelp, but then I don't have the experience with that yet. So, if any of you have ever dealt with something like this, or have some ideas, I'd love to hear what you can suggest.

Thanks!

Sally Holdener

Northern VA

[Guest guest]

I

will have to get the name. It is a mineral designed for brood cows, I checked a

lot and it seems to give enough mag and cu . I mix ½ and ½ w/ countryside mineral

www.MajestyFarm.com

" What is ominous is the ease with which some people go from

saying that they don't like something to saying that the government should

forbid it. When you go down that road, don't expect freedom to survive very

long. " Sowell

From:

RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of Sally Holdener

Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 11:22

AM

To: RawDairy

Subject: Re: Bitter

taste in milk - not sour

, what is the name of the

mineral you use? Did you get it from Countryside? That's where our

farmer is getting the kelp from now, I think. We told him we want him to

give more minerals. Cu is copper, right?

Thanks, everyone!

Sally

Garlic/onion

could be an issue, esp. if he is using the garlic added minerals. I did not find

that the countryside w/ kelp was sufficient for mine, not enough cu so I split

w/ a brood cow loose mineral. Never have noticed a flavor w/ it.

www.MajestyFarm.com

" What is ominous is the ease with which some people go from

saying that they don't like something to saying that the government should

forbid it. When you go down that road, don't expect freedom to survive very

long. " Sowell

From: RawDairy

[mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf

Of Sally Holdener

Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 9:31

AM

To: RawDairy

Subject: Bitter taste

in milk - not sour

I hope someone can help me figure out what might be causing

this. The milk from our cow share has had a very bitter aftertaste

occasionally in the last few months. It's not that it's sour, it's

definately a bitter taste on the back of the tongue. Our farmer has

changed some things in the last month to chill the milk faster, so we don't

think that is the problem. We are wondering if it could be lots of wild

onion and garlic in parts of his pastures (they really need work), or cows that

aren't healthy (mineral deficiencies?) or something else. He did say he

just added back (after being out of it for a couple weeks) kelp for minerals,

and it contains garlic for parasites, which I don't know if the kelp he was

giving them before had. He said it smells fishy, but I'd think that would

be the kelp, but then I don't have the experience with that yet. So, if

any of you have ever dealt with something like this, or have some ideas, I'd

love to hear what you can suggest.

Thanks!

Sally Holdener

Northern VA

[Guest guest]

Wild garlic or onions are only two of the things that

make milk taste bitter. Pigweed or Palmer ameranth

produce a horrid taste after the milk has sat for 24

hours. Bitter sneeze weed will make it undrinkable.

There are many others that affect the flavor to a

greater or lesser extent.

Bill Dunlap

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>

> I hope someone can help me figure out what might be causing this.

The milk from our cow share has had a very bitter aftertaste

occasionally in the last few months. It's not that it's sour, it's

definately a bitter taste on the back of the tongue. Our farmer has

changed some things in the last month to chill the milk faster, so we

don't think that is the problem. We are wondering if it could be

lots of wild onion and garlic in parts of his pastures (they really

need work), or cows that aren't healthy (mineral deficiencies?) or

something else. He did say he just added back (after being out of it

for a couple weeks) kelp for minerals, and it contains garlic for

parasites, which I don't know if the kelp he was giving them before

had. He said it smells fishy, but I'd think that would be the kelp,

but then I don't have the experience with that yet. So, if any of

you have ever dealt with something like this, or have some ideas, I'd

love to hear what you can suggest.

>

> Thanks!

> Sally Holdener

> Northern VA

>

[Guest guest]

Too much bitter black strap molasses in the grain mixture can do

this. It's the iron content. A lot of times people try to save

money and have their own feed recipe ground and made. To settle the

dust molasses is used.

Another source of off taste can be water source high in iron(rust

on appliances) or sulfur (smells like rotten eggs). Too much iron

and sulfur will interfere with uptake of other minerals like copper

and zinc.

You can also get a funky taste if feeding any silage. Silage is

pickled cultured product and if not put up or stored right it can

grow funky stuff that can not be good!

And, parasite overload can also cause problems in taste.

Personally I have had as much luck using garlic and other 'natural'

dewormers as I have pouring rain water over their backs. I can only

speak for our area as that's only place I have long term cow kept, we

deworm the beef cows twice a year- spring and fall. My family dairy

cow I deworm at change of seasons- spring, summer, fall, and winter.

I started doing that after seeing an increase in milk production when

I dewormed.

Usually a chronic mastitis case will cause salty rather than

bitter taste. But I would want to use a sterile catch culture to

rule mastitis out.

Just because the pasture is green don't make it good for a cow

to eat or make for sweet tasting milk. I have seen what some

poor 'grass fed' cows are forced to live upon. Some cowkeepers need

a crash course in what GRASS is and is not!!! Personally, if milk is

not tasting like best thing I ever wrapped my lips around, I dump

it. Bitter taste is our tastebuds warning our body that it might not

be something good to consume!!!

The loose mineral mix fed needs to be balanced to the rest of the

ration. If feeding a high calcium legume (like alfalfa) as

forage/hay you need a 1 to 1 calcium to phosphorus ratio and if

feeding a low calcium forage/hay such as fescue, orchard, timothy,

bermuda then you need a 2 to 1 calcium to phosphorus ratio. The mix

also needs to have adequate copper, selenium, vitamin E, and zinc in

it.

I know a lot of you are super sensitive about chemicals... read

whats in kelp, it's got heavy metals and all sorts of stuff in it

that I just don't think of as being good for animals. I used to

feed it until I did more research. There was a time, in the past,

before science knew what was needed nutritionally that Kelp certainly

served a vital purpose in feeding. But, today with balanced mineral

mixes readily available Kelp is not needed.

When I get a chance, I can post the percentages of what's in our

loose mineral mix that we provide for cows and goats. Because we

pasture and hay the old KY 31 Fescue we also use an added ingredient

that offsets the endophyte impact upon the animal's body.

Most folks don't understand you are not feeding a cow. You are

feeding a walking around bacterial composting vat. The types and

numbers of rumen flora and fauna will vary and what is fed can indeed

affect taste of the milk.

Donna

Safehaven Nubians

Dandridge, TN

>

> I hope someone can help me figure out what might be causing this.

The milk from our cow share has had a very bitter aftertaste

occasionally in the last few months. It's not that it's sour, it's

definately a bitter taste on the back of the tongue. Our farmer has

changed some things in the last month to chill the milk faster, so we

don't think that is the problem. We are wondering if it could be

lots of wild onion and garlic in parts of his pastures (they really

need work), or cows that aren't healthy (mineral deficiencies?) or

something else. He did say he just added back (after being out of it

for a couple weeks) kelp for minerals, and it contains garlic for

parasites, which I don't know if the kelp he was giving them before

had. He said it smells fishy, but I'd think that would be the kelp,

but then I don't have the experience with that yet. So, if any of

you have ever dealt with something like this, or have some ideas, I'd

love to hear what you can suggest.

>

> Thanks!

> Sally Holdener

> Northern VA

>

[Guest guest]

Anytime milk tastes less than like the best thing you ever wrapped

your lips around, IMVHO it needs to be DUMPED. This is especially

true with any trace of bitter tastes as that's our taste buds telling

us that could be harmful. Our having tastebuds that detect 'bitter'

keep us from consuming lots of natural poisons. You can experience

that by biting into an apple seed and getting that bitterness from

the cyanide compounds.

How soon after this milk is harvested do you notice the off

taste? It you milk out, and immediatly get milk to below 40*F and

still have an off taste then more than likely it's not the equipment

contaminating, but the cow has a problem.

The quickest way to rule out any mastitis (usually it has a

salty, rather than a bitter taste) is to get a sterile catch sample,

put it on ice (but do NOT freeze!) and get it to a lab for grow out

within 24 hours.

You can also milk out each quarter into individual containers

and chill then sample. If one of the four (since it's a cow!)

samples are bitter and others are not, then you probably do have low

grade chronic mastitis.

I have found California Mastitis Test (CMT) to be very accurate

with cows more than two weeks fresh. You do want to use distilled

water to mix reagent and to replace your reagent at least once a

year. The CMT is a cheap, reasonably sensitive/accurate and easy to

use cowside mastitis detection test. I can teach someone how to use

and interpret in about thirty minutes. Some will use the Dr. Naylor

cards. They are not very sensitive or accurate and I don't recomend

them.

Overuse of bitter blackstrap feed grade molasses can cause bitter

taste in milk. This is used to settle dust in ground feeds. Because

of it's high iron content it can cause problems. See if there

happens to be a fresh batch of feed used? Usually a mill will use

more molasses in warmer months and less in the colder months of the

year.

Water source can also be a problem. If the water has excessive

iron (rust on appliances) or sulfur (rotten egg smell) that can cause

problems. Iron can interfere with copper uptake and sulfur with

zinc. This can cause animal chronic long term problems that can be

subtle to diagnose.

Some people need a crash course in what grass fed REALLY means.

Just because it's green don't make it grass! Or good for the cow!

Unless a cow is starving she should not be eating any red root

pigweed (also called rough root pigweed.) Goats willingly browse the

tender new growth. Pigweed has a calcium antagonist and will cause

milk fever if enough is consumed. If the 'pasture' is full of onions

that tells me it's not been well taken care of and most likely

overgrazed, underfertilized, and not growing the best grass in the

world.

Problems with your equipment not being clean enough will usually

make for bad tastes later in the time frame of your keeping the

milk. Like after two or three days in the refrigerator. Is this

milk harvested with a machine or by hand? Either way, there can be

places where gunk gets hidden and can cause problems. With hand

milking a lot of times the cheaper stainless steel bucket with a

rolled instead of a flat rim will be used. That rolled rim traps

crud and contaminates milk. Or, a strong enough acid rinse is not

being used often enough to keep milkstone accumulation to a minimum.

That 'equipment' includes whatever the milk is being stored in.

Myself, I like the Ball Mason, wide mouth half gallon glass jar to

store milk in. I can get my hand down in it to clean, they are $1.50

each, it is small enough to chill milk fast, and my milk strainer

fits snug into it.

With machine milking there are many places to mess up and have

problems. I can trouble shoot system similiar to what we use. Let

me know what kind.

Onions and garlic both can cause bitter tastes, too. Personally

I have tried all that 'natural' deworming and found it severly

lacking. Parasite overload itself can also cause off flavored milks

due to animal being so anemic. We have very hot, humid weather for

better than six months a year. The other six months we rarely have

below freezing weather for more than 48 hours straight. So, we have

a heavy parasite pressure year round. On the cows deworming at least

twice a year is required, although my dairy cows I deworm 4x (at

change of season).

I am not a fan of kelp. Back in the dark ages of animal

nutrition, it certainly had it's place in providing needed mineral

supplementation. But, if you have ever read a complete analysis of

Kelp?? it's got all sort of toxic heavy metals in it, too. Just not

what I want my dairy animal to be eating. Probably won't do any

harm except to your pocketbook. But, I use a name brand loose

mineral mix that is formulated for my hay/browse.

And, there is also research that is now coming in that shows an

individual cow's 'flora and fauna' makeup of her rumen can influence

how efficient she converts food to milk and how that milk tastes.

Never loose sight of the fact you are not feeding a cow, but a

walking bacterial vat!

Donna

Safehaven Nubians

Dandridge, TN

>

> I hope someone can help me figure out what might be causing this.

The milk from our cow share has had a very bitter aftertaste

occasionally in the last few months. It's not that it's sour, it's

definately a bitter taste on the back of the tongue. Our farmer has

changed some things in the last month to chill the milk faster, so we

don't think that is the problem. We are wondering if it could be

lots of wild onion and garlic in parts of his pastures (they really

need work), or cows that aren't healthy (mineral deficiencies?) or

something else. He did say he just added back (after being out of it

for a couple weeks) kelp for minerals, and it contains garlic for

parasites, which I don't know if the kelp he was giving them before

had. He said it smells fishy, but I'd think that would be the kelp,

but then I don't have the experience with that yet. So, if any of

you have ever dealt with something like this, or have some ideas, I'd

love to hear what you can suggest.

>

> Thanks!

> Sally Holdener

> Northern VA

>