Re: OT-Do you Buy Clothing with Fur?

[Guest guest]

What you say it unfortunately true. There was a report on BBC news a

few days ago and the footage was more than I could persoanlly handle.

China says that the only reason this is going on, is because Europe

offers the market, but the Europeans don't know it's dog and cat. One

coat a woman in either germany or France bought, can't remember now

which country-had Dna testing done and it came up Labrador Retreaver!

really sick1-I'm glad they are finding out abouat it though and maybe

the public will be more aware and stop it.

Elke

Tinybabe wrote:

It's true and I did say it was OT - off topic. I'll

find a report if you would like. You have to understand that in some

places they don't want to spend time killing animal or spending the

money to do so.

Kind of naive on your part.

K.C.

-----

Original Message -----

From:

Langlois

To:

RawDairy

Sent:

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 6:24 PM

Subject:

Re: OT-Do you Buy Clothing with Fur?

I can't fathom what this has to do with raw milk and I question the

veracity of the report. Who would be stupid enough skin a dog alive

when it is much easier to skin a dead animal?

Tinybabe wrote:

This is really upsetting to me and I wanted to alert

people to what I have been told by someone in the know.

I don't personally buy anything with real fur, but

don't condemn those that choose to do so. However, if you do, don't

buy clothing made in China that has fur on it. It may very well be DOG

FUR!!

We all know that China and other countries like that

do not have any laws protecting animals and now they are (I'm sorry,

this is disgusting to me) skinning dogs alive, processing the fur,

taking it to auctions and selling it as "Miscellaneous Fur", not saying

what it is and not having to say because there is no law that demands

it. The clothing buyers are scooping this stuff up and attaching it to

clothing as cuffs, collars, borders, etc. I won't go into the more

gruesome detail about what else they are doing to these poor animals.

I almost got sick when I was told.

I'm sure the entire dog loving world will be getting

up in arms about this and stop it, but for now, KNOW WHAT YOU ARE

BUYING. You can't tell it's dog fur from what I've been told.

We all love our animals and a lot of us depend on

our dogs for not only companionship, but protection for us and our

livestock. We care and love our dogs. Unfortunately, this is not a

feeling shared by other countries and the laws do not protect them.

K.C.

[Guest guest]

Well, there are people in Asia who do not mind skinning the dogs alive. I saw parts of a video where the oriental man took a

German Shepheard by the hind leg and proceeded to skin it. The report is true.

That was some time ago.

Barbara

I can't fathom what this has to do with raw milk and I question the veracity of the report. Who would be stupid enough skin a dog alive when it is much easier to skin a dead animal?

[Guest guest]

I have been told they kill the dogs in a most painful manner because it gives the meat a better flavor or something to do with that. Someday whomever does something like this will pay - BIG time!

Shery

Re: OT-Do you Buy Clothing with Fur?

I can't fathom what this has to do with raw milk and I question the veracity of the report. Who would be stupid enough skin a dog alive when it is much easier to skin a dead animal?Tinybabe wrote:

This is really upsetting to me and I wanted to alert people to what I have been told by someone in the know.

I don't personally buy anything with real fur, but don't condemn those that choose to do so. However, if you do, don't buy clothing made in China that has fur on it. It may very well be DOG FUR!!

We all know that China and other countries like that do not have any laws protecting animals and now they are (I'm sorry, this is disgusting to me) skinning dogs alive, processing the fur, taking it to auctions and selling it as "Miscellaneous Fur", not saying what it is and not having to say because there is no law that demands it. The clothing buyers are scooping this stuff up and attaching it to clothing as cuffs, collars, borders, etc. I won't go into the more gruesome detail about what else they are doing to these poor animals. I almost got sick when I was told.

I'm sure the entire dog loving world will be getting up in arms about this and stop it, but for now, KNOW WHAT YOU ARE BUYING. You can't tell it's dog fur from what I've been told.

We all love our animals and a lot of us depend on our dogs for not only companionship, but protection for us and our livestock. We care and love our dogs. Unfortunately, this is not a feeling shared by other countries and the laws do not protect them.

K.C.

[Guest guest]

Have to admit after reading the article on it, that was an exaggeration.

However, not too far from the truth. Pretty horrible stuff.

K.C.

Re: OT-Do you Buy Clothing with Fur?

> Hate to tell ya, but this is true. Not sure about the skinning alive

> as this is only suspect.

>

> Pat H

>

>

>

>

>

>

> PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

> Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

>

> Archive search: http://onibasu.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

There are those who will exaggerate to get you to listen. I did say on another email, that was incorrect, yet not far from what they are doing.

Most of the shelters I have been involved with have done away with the gas and give humane injections. I think they were not only tired of being harassed by the animal rights people, but found it's actually cheaper to use the injection.

K.C.

Re: OT-Do you Buy Clothing with Fur?

I guess the "skinned alive" stuff was just hyperbole. Pretty gruesome stuff. In the good ole USA we just gas em and put them in a landfill. Imagine all that fur going to waste. Hey.. what if local animal control gassed them, froze them and shipped them to China? It would be more humane and lower our trade deficit. Think PETA would go for that?JL

[Guest guest]

I'm glad the BBC had it on the air. Maybe this country will catch up and put this out so people will stay clear of fur trimmed products.

K.C.

Re: OT-Do you Buy Clothing with Fur?

What you say it unfortunately true. There was a report on BBC news a few days ago and the footage was more than I could persoanlly handle. China says that the only reason this is going on, is because Europe offers the market, but the Europeans don't know it's dog and cat. One coat a woman in either germany or France bought, can't remember now which country-had Dna testing done and it came up Labrador Retreaver! really sick1-I'm glad they are finding out abouat it though and maybe the public will be more aware and stop it.Elke

[Guest guest]

Sherry, the more stress an animal is in at the time of killing for meat, the worse the meat is.

This is not done for food. This is done only for their fur. They look upon these dogs as not having feelings, suffering pain or anything. It may be the culture, but I doubt it. To me this is the same mentality that those who pit dogs have. Just a lust for money and to hell with the way the dog suffers.

Don't forget they are also using cats. I've never heard of a culture that eats cats.

K.C.

Re: OT-Do you Buy Clothing with Fur?

I have been told they kill the dogs in a most painful manner because it gives the meat a better flavor or something to do with that. Someday whomever does something like this will pay - BIG time!

Shery

[Guest guest]

If you haven't heard of a society which eats cats, c'mon up to

HongCouver and expand your cultural horizons at " the Catsticks "

aka " the ChopSticks " restaurant. Where they serve real Oriental

cuisine. And if you're keen, and know one of the insiders, you can

participate in a " meal " where you get to spoon out the brains from a

living monkey. Unfortunately I am not making this up.

How do you like multi-cultural-ism, so far?

___________________

>

> Sherry, the more stress an animal is in at the time of killing for

meat, the worse the meat is.

>

> This is not done for food. This is done only for their fur. They

look upon these dogs as not having feelings, suffering pain or

anything. It may be the culture, but I doubt it. To me this is the

same mentality that those who pit dogs have. Just a lust for money

and to hell with the way the dog suffers.

>

> Don't forget they are also using cats. I've never heard of a

culture that eats cats.

>

> K.C.

> Re: OT-Do you Buy Clothing with Fur?

>

>

> I have been told they kill the dogs in a most painful manner

because it gives the meat a better flavor or something to do with

that. Someday whomever does something like this will pay - BIG

time!

> Shery

>

[Guest guest]

In

a number of Asian countries both cats and dogs are used as food. I had relatives,

who lived in the Philippines,

Thailand, Burma, and Hong Kong

in the 60’s though early 80’s and it was not unusual.

As

far as the adrenaline, yes there are cultures, specifically some Asian, that

feel that the rush of adrenaline improves flavor.

As

far as the fur, if one wants to boycott because of the cruelty of processing,

that is understandable. Personally, I do not see the value of a cat, or dog

being more than the value of my goats and cows or lambies. It is a quote

hypocritical stance IMO to personify dogs over other critters. I have had

plenty of stray dogs that were destructive and should be eliminated. Just last

week I finally caught a stray cat that was killing my banty pullets, and fighting

with my 14 yo cat. She was young, probably less than 9 months, smart, and

despite being wild, seemed that she could easily be rehabbed for pet use. I

called a number of animal placement and rescue places, to no avail. One, 45

minutes away, said they could take her if I brought her in a cage they could

keep, along with a donation for food. I do not have the time nor extra funds

that I would choose to do that, so I told them I reckoned I would just put her

down. They freaked out, but could not offer another alternative other

than the local SPCA which I will not either support or take animals to. My

felling was that she could easily have been a good pet…in the 3 days we

had her caught she improved dramatically in attitude and people skills, but she

could not stay here as a bird killer.

I

was ready to dispatch her when a contact I had made through friends called and

wanted a “garage cat” for mice. They were in town, had gone to SPCA

to be turned down for that purpose, and she is now in a great spot for her. But

I would have dispatched her with no qualms. Just as I do skunks (also against

PETA policy BTW) as well as foxes, possums, and whatever wants to eat my stock.

We

choose not to eat our bunnies, we have yard bunnies and the kids have rebelled…but

I have no problem if others do. That choice is our personification of wildlife.

We also do not eat our ducks, We do eat our sheep, chickens, beeves, and trade

goats with a friend (the kids will eat hers but not mine).

It

does seem silly to have millions of strays euthanized here and their carcasses

being worthless for anything, and having a usage made from them vilified.

www.MajestyFarm.com

" The average man's love of liberty is nine-tenths

imaginary. It takes a special sort of man to understand and enjoy liberty --

and he is usually an outlaw in democratic societies. " -- H.L. Mencken

From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of Tinybabe

Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005

1:19 AM

To: RawDairy

Subject: Re: OT-Do you

Buy Clothing with Fur?

Sherry, the

more stress an animal is in at the time of killing for meat, the worse the meat

is

This is not

done for food. This is done only for their fur. They look upon

these dogs as not having feelings, suffering pain or anything. It may be

the culture, but I doubt it. To me this is the same mentality that those

who pit dogs have. Just a lust for money and to hell with the way the dog

suffers.

Don't forget

they are also using cats. I've never heard of a culture that eats cats.

[Guest guest]

Dog as food trivia….

& had a

pack of 30 dogs along on their adventure, serving a “food supply”

purpose. They ate ‘em. In a book I picked up at the Jefferson

Memorial last spring, written by a doctor about the L & C journey,

which gave great detail regarding their amazing ability to keep on keeping on

despite their poor medical practices (a lot of blood-letting), poor health

(parasites), and poor diet (other than when they had buffalo available to them

or smoked fish from the Indians.) Cat/dog eating isn’t

uncommon in the Pacific Rim

“cultures”. After the Hmong invasion of Minneapolis,

there was a huge decline in the cat population. I suppose the up-side was

there were fewer cats roaming the neighborhoods, killing songbirds, while the

down-side is people lost their “pets” to a stir-fry. The problem

of cat-as-meat in the local Mpls restaurants was that while they served it, the

patrons didn’t know they were ordering it. The health department shut

down a neighborhood restaurant and just when they were about to re-open, they

got torched (arson). Must have been somebody who thought they ordered “chicken”

but found out through the news account they had eaten “feline”……

-Sharon,

NH

Deut 11:14

He will put grass in the fields for your cattle, and you will have plenty to

eat.

RE: OT-Do you Buy

Clothing with Fur?

In

a number of Asian countries both cats and dogs are used as food. I had

relatives, who lived in the Philippines, Thailand, Burma, and Hong Kong in the

60’s though early 80’s and it was not unusual.

[Guest guest]

, the carcasses of euthanized cats and dogs are not useless. They are going to the rendering plants to be used in dog foods as protein meal. This is including the blue plastic bag they are put in after death and whatever collars and flea collars they were wearing before they were killed.

What western world is horrified about is the way the easterners treat the dogs and cats before they eat them. All that torture and pain they have to suffer before they are eaten.

Barbara

It does seem silly to have millions of strays euthanized here and their carcasses being worthless for anything, and having a usage made from them vilified.

www.MajestyFarm.com

[Guest guest]

How do YOU like it? Sounds like you have frequented some of these

lovely establishments, lol.

Robin

>

> If you haven't heard of a society which eats cats, c'mon up to

> HongCouver and expand your cultural horizons at " the Catsticks "

> aka " the ChopSticks " restaurant. Where they serve real Oriental

> cuisine. And if you're keen, and know one of the insiders, you can

> participate in a " meal " where you get to spoon out the brains from a

> living monkey. Unfortunately I am not making this up.

>

> How do you like multi-cultural-ism, so far?

[Guest guest]

Personally, I would not knowingly eat cat, dog, or horse. But I

recognize that's because of my own culturally-conditioned repugnance,

not because it's intrinsically better or worse than eating

formerly-frolicking lambs, adorable curly-tailed piggly-wigglies, or

cows (steers) with those lovely soft, brown eyes... I am --

being human -- both biologically and ecologically a predatory

omnivore, and eat accordingly.

Similarly with fur: I would not choose to purchase products made

from the skins of dogs or cats. But again, that's a cultural

precondition. I would not hesitate, if climatic conditions called for

it, to wear an artic parka with a coyote or wolf-skin ruff -- and

coyotes are near-kin to dogs (most of our Eastern coyotes have a good

bit of dog in them, actually), while wolves are dogs,

genetically, they haven't been domesticated. Bobcats and lynx are

trapped for their fur, where their populations are large enough to

support it. Objectively, how is domestic cat fur different, other than

the fact that they've managed to convince us to clean their

litterboxes and give them free run of the house?

Cruelty is another matter, and simply unacceptable. That said, I

would find it difficult to believe that anyone would choose to skin an

animal alive; having taken land State Trapping School, as well as

skinned out several deer, rabbits, and numerous squirrels, I know for

a fact that even dead animals can be exceedingly difficult to separate

from their hides! I'm not surprised that some people might do it

anyway; people do all sorts of off-the-wall things. But I can't

imagine that it would be any more " efficient " to skin them

alive -- and of course, it would indeed be terribly cruel. There's a

lot of difference, imho, between animal " rights " (they don't

have them, because they don't have responsibilities: the two go

together) and animal welfare, which I strongly support.

And just on principle, I'd take anything PETA says with a

humungous block of rock salt. Even if there's a grain of truth in

there, you have to work so hard to remove the husk of hyperbole,

propaganda, and misinformation to get at it that the effort is seldom

worth it. If those yahoos had their way, none of us would be able to

have or use animals for any purpose whatsoever. They used to be a

respectable outfit, back when they were concerning themselves with

gratuitous cruelty to animals, but those days are long gone...

Tom

--

" Babes do not tremble when they are shown a golf ball, but

I

should not like to own the boy whose hair does not lift his

hat

when he sees his first deer. " -- Aldo Leopold,

" Goose

Music "

-------------------------------------------------------------------

H.

Harbold P.O. Box 1537

tharbold@...

Westminster, MD 21158

tom_in_md@...

http://www.geocities.com/Tom_in_MD

Column & Essay Collection:

http://albionsmeade.blogspot.com

-------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Barbara, how is this ingredient listed on dog food? As generic protein

meal? I would want to know how to scrutinize those labels, even more

than I do now (I can assure you, nothing my pets eat has rendered

protein meal as an ingredient).

I'm not surprised about the collars and plastic bags being rendered

along with them..this, from a country that feeds its cows cardboard in

factory farms, among other lovely things.

I don't much have a problem with stray pets being killed, and their

carcasses used..it's the excessive cruelty and neglect that seems

unnecessary. I am an avid hunter, and I do butcher my own animals. In

addition, I do wear many different types of fur, mostly from the

animals I've killed, but I have one mink jacket, and one rabbit fur

vest..the mink has been in the family for about 100 years, and the

rabbit I bought at an auction..not that I wouldn't buy a new one if I

could!

Robin

>

> , the carcasses of euthanized cats and dogs are not useless.

They are going to the rendering plants to be used in dog foods as

protein meal. This is including the blue plastic bag they are put in

after death and whatever collars and flea collars they were wearing

before they were killed.

>

> What western world is horrified about is the way the easterners

treat the dogs and cats before they eat them. All that torture and

pain they have to suffer before they are eaten.

>

> Barbara

>

[Guest guest]

My answer to the above question is yes. I also go so far as to eat the

meat inside the fur. I've eaten a variety of animals, some people

might consider them pets, when they hit my plate they are called

livestock or food.

What I try not to eat (or wear) is any animal that has suffered in

death or life. The skinning alive part of this discussion sounds a bit

fishy to me. We skin goats and deer some as small as a large dog.

Personally, I can't imagine getting an intact hide off a live animal,

it's difficult enough when they are dead.

I agree with 's post below. We need to stop pushing our values

on the rest of the world. Just because we don't do it doesn't make it

wrong.

Belinda in TN

In a number of Asian countries both cats and dogs are used as food. I

had

relatives, who lived in the Philippines, Thailand, Burma, and Hong Kong

in

the 60's though early 80's and it was not unusual.

As far as the adrenaline, yes there are cultures, specifically some

Asian,

that feel that the rush of adrenaline improves flavor.

As far as the fur, if one wants to boycott because of the cruelty of

processing, that is understandable. Personally, I do not see the value

of a

cat, or dog being more than the value of my goats and cows or lambies.

It is

a quote hypocritical stance IMO to personify dogs over other critters. I

have had plenty of stray dogs that were destructive and should be

eliminated. Just last week I finally caught a stray cat that was

killing my

banty pullets, and fighting with my 14 yo cat. She was young, probably

less

than 9 months, smart, and despite being wild, seemed that she could

easily

be rehabbed for pet use. I called a number of animal placement and

rescue

places, to no avail. One, 45 minutes away, said they could take her if I

brought her in a cage they could keep, along with a donation for food.

I do

not have the time nor extra funds that I would choose to do that, so I

told

them I reckoned I would just put her down. They freaked out, but could

not

offer another alternative other than the local SPCA which I will not

either

support or take animals to. My felling was that she could easily have

been a

good pet.in the 3 days we had her caught she improved dramatically in

attitude and people skills, but she could not stay here as a bird

killer.

I was ready to dispatch her when a contact I had made through friends

called

and wanted a " garage cat " for mice. They were in town, had gone to SPCA

to

be turned down for that purpose, and she is now in a great spot for

her. But

I would have dispatched her with no qualms. Just as I do skunks (also

against PETA policy BTW) as well as foxes, possums, and whatever wants

to

eat my stock.

We choose not to eat our bunnies, we have yard bunnies and the kids have

rebelled.but I have no problem if others do. That choice is our

personification of wildlife. We also do not eat our ducks, We do eat our

sheep, chickens, beeves, and trade goats with a friend (the kids will

eat

hers but not mine).

It does seem silly to have millions of strays euthanized here and their

carcasses being worthless for anything, and having a usage made from

them

vilified.

www.MajestyFarm.com

[Guest guest]

Yumm

I am sure all the dogs and cats love that extra seasoning of flea collars and

plastic bags! And many places incinerate rather than send to the rendering

plant/ Around here, it is nigh to impossible to get a rendering plant to pick

up a small load. It is horrid how many people treat animals. It is horrid

that female genital mutilation happens. It is horrible that Muslims kill women

for the audacity of being raped. In the scope of things, choosing what to be

mortified about can be quite puzzling. The fact that “westerners”

are horrified at what happens to these animals, while they are complacent about

things like EPA approval for testing on retarded and orphans is pretty much

ignored.

The Environmental Protection Agency

(EPA) is apparently promulgating a rule that will allow for chemical

experimentation on children who have no capacity to deny permission: orphans,

mentally handicapped children, abused and neglected children. This is not

an " urban legend " nor a hoax. The 30-page EPA document has the

relevant clauses well-hidden inside dense, convoluted language that - other

than those clauses - appears to say the exact opposite. The Organic

Consumers Association - a watchdog consumer advocacy group - has researched

this carefully and below is reprinted, from their site, a summary of the

relevant clauses as well as the exact clauses from the EPA document, with

commentary from OCA. The link below is for the ALERT page on the OCA site.

The main phone # for OCA is: Activist or Media Inquiries:

and the contact

person for this is: Craig Minowa

Please send

your comments to EPA (see info at bottom) but just as, if not more importantly,

PLEASE HELP SPREAD THIS INFORMATION. Obviously, if EPA were going to do

what's right, they never would have promulgated this rule in the first

place. It will probably take considerable public pressure to ensure this

rule does not become law. Please send this information far and wide,

especially to any groups that will act on it.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/epa6.cfm

Public Comment

Period for this rule Closes December 12, 2005

Public comments

are now being accepted by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) on its

newly proposed federal regulation regarding the testing of chemicals and

pesticides on human subjects. On August 2, 2005, Congress had mandated the EPA

create a rule that permanently bans chemical testing on pregnant women and

children. But the EPA's newly proposed rule, misleadingly titled

" Protections for Subjects in Human Research, " puts industry profits

ahead of children's welfare. The rule allows for government and industry

scientists to treat children as human guinea pigs in chemical experiments in

the following situations:

1.

Children who " cannot be reasonably consulted, " such as those that are

mentally handicapped or orphaned newborns may be tested on. With permission

from the institution or guardian in charge of the individual, the child may be

exposed to chemicals for the sake of research.

2.

Parental consent forms are not necessary for testing on children who have been

neglected or abused.

3.

Chemical studies on any children outside of the U.S. are acceptable.

OCA's focal

concerns with this proposed rule specifically involve the following portions of

text within the EPA document (Read the full EPA proposed rule by going to the

OCA link above and clicking the appropriate link on that page)

Below are the

citations from the EPA document. Following each is commentary OCA commentary.

70 FR 53865

26.408(a) " The IRB (Independent Review Board) shall determine that

adequate provisions are made for soliciting the assent of the children, when in

the judgment of the IRB the children are capable of providing assent...If the

IRB determines that the capability of some or all of the children is so limited

that they cannot reasonably be consulted, the assent of the children is not a

necessary condition for proceeding with the research. Even where the IRB

determines that the subjects are capable of assenting, the IRB may still waive

the assent requirement... "

(OCA NOTE: Under

this clause, a mentally handicapped child or infant orphan could be tested on

without assent. This violates the Nuremberg Code, an international treaty that

mandates assent of test subjects is " absolutely essential, " and that

the test subject must have " legal capacity to give consent " and must

be " so situated as to exercise free power of choice. " This loophole

in the rule must be completely removed.)

70

FR 53865 26.408© " If the IRB determines that a research protocol is

designed for conditions or for a subject population for which parental or

guardian permission is not a reasonable requirement to protect the subjects

(for example, neglected or abused children), it may waive the consent

requirements... "

(OCA NOTE: Under

the general rule, the EPA is saying it's okay to test chemicals on children if

their parents or institutional guardians consent to it. This clause says that

neglected or abused children have unfit guardians, so no consent would be

required to test on those children. This loophole in the rule must be

completely removed.)

70

FR 53864 26.401 (a)(2) " To What Do These Regulations Apply? It also

includes research conducted or supported by EPA outside the United States, but

in appropriate circumstances, the Administrator may, under § 26.101(e),

waive the applicability of some or all of the requirements of these regulations

for research... "

(OCA NOTE: This

clause is stating that the Administrator of the EPA has the power to completely

waive regulations on human testing, if the testing is done outside of the U.S. This will

allow chemical companies to do human testing in other countries where these

types of laws are less strict. This loophole in the rule must be completely

removed.)

70

FR 53857 " EPA proposes an extraordinary procedure applicable if

scientifically sound but ethically deficient human research is found to be

crucial to EPA’s fulfilling its mission to protect public health. This

procedure would also apply if a scientifically sound study covered by proposed

§ 26.221 or § 26.421--i.e., an intentional dosing study involving

pregnant women or children as subjects... "

(OCA NOTE: This

clause allows the EPA to accept or conduct " ethically deficient "

studies of chemical tests on humans if the agency deems it necessary to fulfull

its mission. Unfortunately, the EPA report sets up no criteria for making such

an exception with any particular study. This ambiguity leaves a gaping loophole

in the rule. Without specific and detailed criteria, it could be argued that

any and every study of chemical testing on humans is " necessary. "

This loophole in the rule must be removed, based on this inadequacy of criteria

and definition.)

Forward this

alert to friends and colleagues

By mail: Send

two copies of your comments to:

Public Information

and Records Integrity Branch (PIRIB)

Office of

Pesticide Programs

U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

Mail Code: 7502C

1200 Pennsylvania Ave., NW

Washington, DC, 20460-0001

Attention:

Docket ID Number OPP-2003-0132

www.MajestyFarm.com

" The Bible calls debt a curse and children

a blessing. But in our culture, we apply for a curse and reject

blessings. Something is wrong with this picture. "

--Doug , Vision Forum Ministries

From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of Barbara

Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005

9:57 AM

To: RawDairy

Subject: Re: OT-Do you

Buy Clothing with Fur?

, the carcasses of euthanized cats and dogs are not

useless. They are going to the rendering plants to be used in dog foods

as protein meal. This is including the blue plastic bag they are put in

after death and whatever collars and flea collars they were wearing before

they were killed.

What western world is horrified about is the way the

easterners treat the dogs and cats before they eat them. All that torture

and pain they have to suffer before they are eaten.

Barbara

It does seem silly to have millions of strays

euthanized here and their carcasses being worthless for anything, and having a

usage made from them vilified.

www.MajestyFarm.com

[Guest guest]

Considering all those horrible things human race is capable of doing to themselves and to other species, why are we here on this Earth? What is our purpose?

Barbara

Yumm I am sure all the dogs and cats love that extra seasoning of flea collars and plastic bags! And many places incinerate rather than send to the rendering plant/ Around here, it is nigh to impossible to get a rendering plant to pick up a small load. It is horrid how many people treat animals. It is horrid that female genital mutilation happens. It is horrible that Muslims kill women for the audacity of being raped. In the scope of things, choosing what to be mortified about can be quite puzzling. The fact that “westerners” are horrified at what happens to these animals, while they are complacent about things like EPA approval for testing on retarded and orphans is pretty much ignored.

[Guest guest]

I agree with you totally on this one... It is wrong to make ANY creature suffer..wether it be dog, human, or goats etc..food animals are being butchered alive every day in our society. chickens, pigs and beef cattle, and cows in big factory dairys, somtimes are trampled on and killed while lying down giving birth..There are horror stories in every nook and cranny of our world... I prefer cotton fabrics, and good ol jeans..LOL I do my own, to boycott this horror, I only eat meat I raise here, but at least I know, they were put down, quick and with as little stress as possible...I truly feel this way and I teach my children this too..everything you do, wether it is good or bad, comes back to you x 3..so make sure you suffer others ..as little as can be !!

[Guest guest]

Do

the best you can with what you have be stewards as we are led. Each of us has a

dark spot and a light spot. How we live is what we choose to feed. When you

feed the dark, it grows. Feeding the light does the same. We each choose.

www.MajestyFarm.com

" There is only one basic human Right, the Right to do as you

damn well please. And with it comes only one basic Human Duty, to take the

consequences. " P.J. O’Rourke

From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of Barbara

Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005

3:12 PM

To: RawDairy

Subject: Re: OT-Do you

Buy Clothing with Fur?

Considering all those horrible things human race is capable

of doing to themselves and to other species, why are we here on this

Earth? What is our purpose?

Barbara

Yumm I am sure all the dogs and cats love that

extra seasoning of flea collars and plastic bags! And many places

incinerate rather than send to the rendering plant/ Around here, it is nigh to

impossible to get a rendering plant to pick up a small load. It is horrid how

many people treat animals. It is horrid that female genital mutilation

happens. It is horrible that Muslims kill women for the audacity of being

raped. In the scope of things, choosing what to be mortified about can be quite

puzzling. The fact that “westerners” are horrified at what happens

to these animals, while they are complacent about things like EPA approval for

testing on retarded and orphans is pretty much ignored.

[Guest guest]

Yes. It looks like it.

Barbara

Do the best you can with what you have be stewards as we are led. Each of us has a dark spot and a light spot. How we live is what we choose to feed. When you feed the dark, it grows. Feeding the light does the same. We each choose.

www.MajestyFarm.com

[Guest guest]

To educate others not to act inhumanly towards a lesser species.

All animals have feelings.

K.C.

Re: OT-Do you Buy Clothing with Fur?

Considering all those horrible things human race is capable of doing to themselves and to other species, why are we here on this Earth? What is our purpose?

Barbara

Yumm I am sure all the dogs and cats love that extra seasoning of flea collars and plastic bags! And many places incinerate rather than send to the rendering plant/ Around here, it is nigh to impossible to get a rendering plant to pick up a small load. It is horrid how many people treat animals. It is horrid that female genital mutilation happens. It is horrible that Muslims kill women for the audacity of being raped. In the scope of things, choosing what to be mortified about can be quite puzzling. The fact that “westerners” are horrified at what happens to these animals, while they are complacent about things like EPA approval for testing on retarded and orphans is pretty much ignored.

[Guest guest]

Definitely, all animals have feelings. But the wicked deeds towards animals and other human beings are getting worse, not better. Seems like all feelings are being sacrificed for greed.

Barbara

To educate others not to act inhumanly towards a lesser species.

All animals have feelings.

K.C.

[Guest guest]

Considering all those horrible things human race is capable of doing to themselves and to other species, why are we here on this Earth? What is our purpose?

I would assume, that this question is asked every day, from every person in the world, who has a conscience.....

[Guest guest]

According to the Westminster Shorter Catechism, Question 1:

!.) What is the purpose of man?

The purpose of man is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever.

To me this screams " relationship. " God is a God of relationship and that is

what He wants

with us.

And then we also have the actual Bible, in Luke, chapter 10:25-27:

25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him (Jesus), saying,

" Teacher, what

shall I do to inherit eternal life? "

26 He said to him, " What is written in the law? What is your reading of it? "

27 So He answered and said, " `You shall love the LORD your God with all your

heart, with

all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and `your

neighbor as

yourself.' "

Again, " relationship " with God and others, I believe, is our purpose on earth,

Barbara.

With regard to animal cruelty, the Bible also says in Proverbs 12:10:

A righteous man regards the life of his animal, but the tender mercies of the

wicked are

cruel.

>

> Considering all those horrible things human race is capable of doing to

themselves and

to other species, why are we here on this Earth? What is our purpose?

>

> Barbara

>

[Guest guest]

Does God wants a relationship with ph too? Even people do not want to have anything to do with him. Jury wants him put to death. And there are millions and millions creeps just like him.

Why doesn't God dispose of them? Primetime tonight had a piece of a pedophile who adopted a 5 year old Russian orphan girl for his "pleasures". Why does the girl have to suffer? When adult people suffer because of their poor choices is one thing but the innocent children and animals without conscience should not be allowed to suffer. They can not learn anything.

I'm not arguing with you , I'm arguing with myself.

Barbara

According to the Westminster Shorter Catechism, Question 1:!.) What is the purpose of man?The purpose of man is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever.To me this screams "relationship." God is a God of relationship and that is what He wants with us.And then we also have the actual Bible, in Luke, chapter 10:25-27:25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him (Jesus), saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 26 He said to him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?" 27 So He answered and said, " `You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and `your neighbor as yourself.'"Again, "relationship" with God and others, I believe, is our purpose on earth, Barbara.With regard to animal cruelty, the Bible also says in Proverbs 12:10:A righteous man regards the life of his animal, but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.