Re: Tough situation for mom need input...

[Guest guest]

Jaye, i don't understand the weight loss/weight gain thing...why not gradually cut back on the pumping time? Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- Subject: Tough situation for mom need input...To: LACTNET@..., , pplc Date: Monday, September 12, 2011, 7:24 PM

Hi All, Cross posting because I just don’t know

what else to do for this poor mom. Have suggested she go to an endocrinologist

for help but she is fighting with her primary care just for a referral. Primary

care doesn’t appear to care at all… Here is her situation in her words: A note:

This mom deliberately crashed her supply in the first week or so due to extreme

pain with nursing and pumping. She was an emotional wreck and just couldn’t

handle the pain. About 2 ½ wks later, when the milk was gone she changed her

mind and started pumping just 2-3 times per day. Within a week she was making

12 ounces. She increased to 5 times per day and had a full supply within a

week. I finally saw her in person (I’d been encouraging that for quite a while

– she just wasn’t ready) about a week after her supply was fully meeting baby’s

needs and switched her to proper fitting flanges so that her pumping was no

longer painful. Her supply then jumped to nearly 70 oz per day – on only 5-6

pumpings! She has tried to reduce her supply repeatedly with sage – it will

drop no more than 5 ounces (and that is taking a double amount of sage that the

average mom would take) and when she stops after a week or so, her supply

rebounds like crazy. Here are her comments: Thoughts are greatly

appreciated! Weight loss

vs. weight gain: Increase

calories, lose weight but milk supply also increases Quantity

of calories needed to lose weight is higher than I can comfortably eat Consume

comfortable amount of calories (1300-1500), weight rapidly increases Supply resistant

to decrease: Cannot

use Sudafed due to side effects Sage

brings supply down minimally and for short time only Trying

to cut out a pump results in

clogged ducts that take about a day to resolve Let-down is

always slow Recuse

Remedy worked for a while and then stopped Warm

compresses help minimally Massage

with or without heat does little to increase let-down Need

to pump for about 15 minutes just to get let-down and then milk flows more

readily Just

pumping to comfort means pumping around 35 minutes (gets uncomfortably full

again after 1

½-2 hours after pump) Pumping

to “empty†results in 40-45 minute pump Feel

extremely worn out following a pumping session Eating

a snack prior to or during pumping does not improve outcome The lowest I

can get my supply is around 65 ounces. The next day will be really

uncomfortable. If I try to do this two days in a row, I am beyond

uncomfortable and have difficulty even holding baby.

I tried

decreasing to 4 or 5 pumps for a few days and only pumped to comfort. I still

ended up with 73-77 ounces. I’m doing 1 tsp. sage four times per day during

this too.

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM Breastfeeding Network Sacramento, CA www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

[Guest guest]

Hi This maybe a stupid question. Is this her first baby? It would seem to me to Be more of an issue if it were because she wouldSeemed to have missed the stage of building those progesterone Receptor. Right? Very interesting. Elaine Sent from my, very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness", iPhone.

Jaye, i don't understand the weight loss/weight gain thing...why not gradually cut back on the pumping time? Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- Subject: Tough situation for mom need input...To: LACTNET@..., , pplc Date: Monday, September 12, 2011, 7:24 PM

Hi All, Cross posting because I just don’t know

what else to do for this poor mom. Have suggested she go to an endocrinologist

for help but she is fighting with her primary care just for a referral. Primary

care doesn’t appear to care at all… Here is her situation in her words: A note:

This mom deliberately crashed her supply in the first week or so due to extreme

pain with nursing and pumping. She was an emotional wreck and just couldn’t

handle the pain. About 2 ½ wks later, when the milk was gone she changed her

mind and started pumping just 2-3 times per day. Within a week she was making

12 ounces. She increased to 5 times per day and had a full supply within a

week. I finally saw her in person (I’d been encouraging that for quite a while

– she just wasn’t ready) about a week after her supply was fully meeting baby’s

needs and switched her to proper fitting flanges so that her pumping was no

longer painful. Her supply then jumped to nearly 70 oz per day – on only 5-6

pumpings! She has tried to reduce her supply repeatedly with sage – it will

drop no more than 5 ounces (and that is taking a double amount of sage that the

average mom would take) and when she stops after a week or so, her supply

rebounds like crazy. Here are her comments: Thoughts are greatly

appreciated! Weight loss

vs. weight gain: Increase

calories, lose weight but milk supply also increases Quantity

of calories needed to lose weight is higher than I can comfortably eat Consume

comfortable amount of calories (1300-1500), weight rapidly increases Supply resistant

to decrease: Cannot

use Sudafed due to side effects Sage

brings supply down minimally and for short time only Trying

to cut out a pump results in

clogged ducts that take about a day to resolve Let-down is

always slow Recuse

Remedy worked for a while and then stopped Warm

compresses help minimally Massage

with or without heat does little to increase let-down Need

to pump for about 15 minutes just to get let-down and then milk flows more

readily Just

pumping to comfort means pumping around 35 minutes (gets uncomfortably full

again after 1

½-2 hours after pump) Pumping

to “empty†results in 40-45 minute pump Feel

extremely worn out following a pumping session Eating

a snack prior to or during pumping does not improve outcome The lowest I

can get my supply is around 65 ounces. The next day will be really

uncomfortable. If I try to do this two days in a row, I am beyond

uncomfortable and have difficulty even holding baby.

I tried

decreasing to 4 or 5 pumps for a few days and only pumped to comfort. I still

ended up with 73-77 ounces. I’m doing 1 tsp. sage four times per day during

this too.

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM Breastfeeding Network Sacramento, CA www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

[Guest guest]

Has this mom had her thyroid levels checked? I had severe oversupply with my daughter, and eventually figured out it was due to thyroid issues postpartum. Is mom nursing at all or just pumping?  If she’s just pumping, I would suggest that rather than trying to decrease the number of pumping sessions, she start with gradually decreasing the amount of time that she pumps at each session (change the duration, not the frequency). She may have to start very slowly, for example decreasing her normal pumping time by one minute each day to allow her body to adjust. The idea being that if you leave milk behind in the breast, the breast of course (should) get the message to slow production down. It certainly sounds like a hormonal issue. I hope she’s able to get the help she needs from her doctor!Warmly,Fleur From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Jaye Simpson, IBCLCSent: September-12-11 10:25 PMTo: LACTNET@...; ; pplc Subject: Tough situation for mom need input... Hi All, Cross posting because I just don’t know what else to do for this poor mom. Have suggested she go to an endocrinologist for help but she is fighting with her primary care just for a referral. Primary care doesn’t appear to care at all… Here is her situation in her words: A note: This mom deliberately crashed her supply in the first week or so due to extreme pain with nursing and pumping. She was an emotional wreck and just couldn’t handle the pain. About 2 ½ wks later, when the milk was gone she changed her mind and started pumping just 2-3 times per day. Within a week she was making 12 ounces. She increased to 5 times per day and had a full supply within a week. I finally saw her in person (I’d been encouraging that for quite a while – she just wasn’t ready) about a week after her supply was fully meeting baby’s needs and switched her to proper fitting flanges so that her pumping was no longer painful. Her supply then jumped to nearly 70 oz per day – on only 5-6 pumpings! She has tried to reduce her supply repeatedly with sage – it will drop no more than 5 ounces (and that is taking a double amount of sage that the average mom would take) and when she stops after a week or so, her supply rebounds like crazy

[Guest guest]

She may need to talk to an endocrinologist. In really bad situations like this she can either go on estrogenic birth control pills or parlodel, though that may have rebound effects as well. I expect her prolactin levels are out of the stratosphere. Or, she has three times the amount of functional breast tissue that the rest of us have....

Be really interesting to do a prolactin level on her. Wonder what her *resting* level is!!

Can she continuously pop peppermint altoids or starburst candies?

Jan

Hi All,

Cross posting because I just don’t know what else to do for this poor mom. Have suggested she go to an endocrinologist for help but she is fighting with her primary care just for a referral. Primary care doesn’t appear to care at all…

Here is her situation in her words: A note: This mom deliberately crashed her supply in the first week or so due to extreme pain with nursing and pumping. She was an emotional wreck and just couldn’t handle the pain. About 2 ½ wks later, when the milk was gone she changed her mind and started pumping just 2-3 times per day. Within a week she was making 12 ounces. She increased to 5 times per day and had a full supply within a week. I finally saw her in person (I’d been encouraging that for quite a while – she just wasn’t ready) about a week after her supply was fully meeting baby’s needs and switched her to proper fitting flanges so that her pumping was no longer painful. Her supply then jumped to nearly 70 oz per day – on only 5-6 pumpings! She has tried to reduce her supply repeatedly with sage – it will drop no more than 5 ounces (and that is taking a double amount of sage that the average mom would take) and when she stops after a week or so, her supply rebounds like crazy. Here are her comments: Thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Weight loss vs. weight gain:

Increase calories, lose weight but milk supply also increases

Quantity of calories needed to lose weight is higher than I can comfortably eat

Consume comfortable amount of calories (1300-1500), weight rapidly increases

Supply resistant to decrease:

Cannot use Sudafed due to side effects

Sage brings supply down minimally and for short time only

Trying to cut out a pump results in clogged ducts that take about a day to resolve

Let-down is always slow

Recuse Remedy worked for a while and then stopped

Warm compresses help minimally

Massage with or without heat does little to increase let-down

Need to pump for about 15 minutes just to get let-down and then milk flows more readily

Just pumping to comfort means pumping around 35 minutes (gets uncomfortably full again after

1 ½-2 hours after pump)

Pumping to “empty†results in 40-45 minute pump

Feel extremely worn out following a pumping session

Eating a snack prior to or during pumping does not improve outcome

The lowest I can get my supply is around 65 ounces. The next day will be really uncomfortable. If I try to do this two days in a row, I am beyond uncomfortable and have difficulty even holding baby.

I tried decreasing to 4 or 5 pumps for a few days and only pumped to comfort. I still ended up with 73-77 ounces. I’m doing 1 tsp. sage four times per day during this too.

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

[Guest guest]

Jaye,

i don't understand the weight loss/weight gain thing...

why not gradually cut back on the pumping time?

Is there a craniosacral therapist near you who has the

Somato-Emotional Release training?

Seriously, I think when some babies feel that the mother

wants this TOO much that is the biggest turn off. I

would totally lay off everything for a week or two

– she has tried. She leaves milk in but within

24 hours is so full and uncomfortable it isn’t funny, and then she

develops plugs.

Dee, we are

looking – so far we haven’t found anyone…but we are looking!

That was one of my suggestions to her and mom is totally open to the CST SER…

– One mom in particular has taken ‘time

off from trying’ several times. Baby then will try to latch, play around

a bit…once. Then he is over it. It only takes a couple days of being snuggled

in the nursing position for him to get irritated.

The mom from my first post is also one whose baby refuses to

nurse…she is one frustrated momma…and , like you these

situations make me really frustrated with the whole process. L

Thank you!

Warmly,

Jaye

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

[Guest guest]

Jan, why starburst? Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- Subject: Re: Tough situation for mom need input...To:

Date: Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 6:44 AM

She may need to talk to an endocrinologist. In really bad situations like this she can either go on estrogenic birth control pills or parlodel, though that may have rebound effects as well. I expect her prolactin levels are out of the stratosphere. Or, she has three times the amount of functional breast tissue that the rest of us have....

Be really interesting to do a prolactin level on her. Wonder what her *resting* level is!!

Can she continuously pop peppermint altoids or starburst candies?

Jan

Hi All, Cross posting because I just don’t know what else to do for this poor mom. Have suggested she go to an endocrinologist for help but she is fighting with her primary care just for a referral. Primary care doesn’t appear to care at all… Here is her situation in her words: A note: This mom deliberately crashed her supply in the first week or so due to extreme pain with nursing and pumping. She was an emotional wreck and just couldn’t handle the pain. About 2 ½ wks later, when the milk was gone she changed her mind and started pumping just 2-3 times per day. Within a week she was making 12 ounces. She increased to 5 times per day and had a full supply within a week. I finally saw her in person (I’d been encouraging that for quite a while – she just wasn’t ready) about a week after her supply was fully meeting baby’s needs and switched her to proper fitting flanges so that her pumping was no longer painful. Her supply then jumped to nearly 70 oz per day – on only 5-6 pumpings! She has tried to reduce her supply repeatedly with sage – it will drop no more than 5 ounces (and that is taking a double amount of sage that the average mom would take) and when she stops after a week or so, her supply rebounds like crazy. Here are her comments: Thoughts are greatly appreciated! Weight loss vs. weight gain: Increase calories, lose weight but milk supply also increases Quantity of calories needed to lose weight is higher than I can comfortably eat Consume comfortable amount of calories (1300-1500), weight rapidly increases Supply resistant to decrease: Cannot use Sudafed due to side effects Sage brings supply down minimally and for short time only Trying to cut out a pump results in clogged ducts that take about a day to resolve Let-down is always slow Recuse Remedy worked for a while and then stopped Warm compresses help minimally Massage with or without heat does little to increase let-down Need to pump for about 15 minutes just to get let-down and then milk flows more readily Just pumping to comfort means pumping around 35 minutes (gets uncomfortably full again after 1 ½-2 hours after pump) Pumping to “empty†results in 40-45 minute pump Feel extremely worn out following a pumping session Eating a snack prior to or during pumping does not improve outcome The lowest I can get my supply is around 65 ounces. The next day will be really uncomfortable. If I try to do this two days in a row, I am beyond uncomfortable and have difficulty even holding baby. I tried decreasing to 4 or 5 pumps for a few days and only pumped to comfort. I still ended up with 73-77 ounces. I’m doing 1 tsp. sage four times per day during this too.

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM Breastfeeding Network Sacramento, CA www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

[Guest guest]

Peppermint. Which can decrease supply. Candy canes/starburst candies/peppermint altoids....may help, won't hurt, and at the least she might have nice breath.

Jan

Jan, why starburst?

Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.com

Breastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/

Subject: Re: Tough situation for mom need input...To: Date: Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 6:44 AM

She may need to talk to an endocrinologist. In really bad situations like this she can either go on estrogenic birth control pills or parlodel, though that may have rebound effects as well. I expect her prolactin levels are out of the stratosphere. Or, she has three times the amount of functional breast tissue that the rest of us have....

Be really interesting to do a prolactin level on her. Wonder what her *resting* level is!!

Can she continuously pop peppermint altoids or starburst candies?

Jan

Hi All,

Cross posting because I just don’t know what else to do for this poor mom. Have suggested she go to an endocrinologist for help but she is fighting with her primary care just for a referral. Primary care doesn’t appear to care at all…

Here is her situation in her words: A note: This mom deliberately crashed her supply in the first week or so due to extreme pain with nursing and pumping. She was an emotional wreck and just couldn’t handle the pain. About 2 ½ wks later, when the milk was gone she changed her mind and started pumping just 2-3 times per day. Within a week she was making 12 ounces. She increased to 5 times per day and had a full supply within a week. I finally saw her in person (I’d been encouraging that for quite a while – she just wasn’t ready) about a week after her supply was fully meeting baby’s needs and switched her to proper fitting flanges so that her pumping was no longer painful. Her supply then jumped to nearly 70 oz per day – on only 5-6 pumpings! She has tried to reduce her supply repeatedly with sage – it will drop no more than 5 ounces (and that is taking a double amount of sage that the average mom would take) and when she stops after a week or so, her supply rebounds like crazy. Here are her comments: Thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Weight loss vs. weight gain:

Increase calories, lose weight but milk supply also increases

Quantity of calories needed to lose weight is higher than I can comfortably eat

Consume comfortable amount of calories (1300-1500), weight rapidly increases

Supply resistant to decrease:

Cannot use Sudafed due to side effects

Sage brings supply down minimally and for short time only

Trying to cut out a pump results in clogged ducts that take about a day to resolve

Let-down is always slow

Recuse Remedy worked for a while and then stopped

Warm compresses help minimally

Massage with or without heat does little to increase let-down

Need to pump for about 15 minutes just to get let-down and then milk flows more readily

Just pumping to comfort means pumping around 35 minutes (gets uncomfortably full again after

1 ½-2 hours after pump)

Pumping to “empty†results in 40-45 minute pump

Feel extremely worn out following a pumping session

Eating a snack prior to or during pumping does not improve outcome

The lowest I can get my supply is around 65 ounces. The next day will be really uncomfortable. If I try to do this two days in a row, I am beyond uncomfortable and have difficulty even holding baby.

I tried decreasing to 4 or 5 pumps for a few days and only pumped to comfort. I still ended up with 73-77 ounces. I’m doing 1 tsp. sage four times per day during this too.

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

[Guest guest]

Jan,

I understand the Altoids, but what's in the Starburst to reduce milk supply?

Dee Kassing

Can she continuously pop peppermint altoids or starburst candies?

Jan

[Guest guest]

Endocrinologist maybe able to R/O Pituitary tumors...Just a thought.SCWatkins

 

Hi All,

 

Cross posting because I just don’t know

what else to do for this poor mom.  Have suggested she go to an endocrinologist

for help but she is fighting with her primary care just for a referral.  Primary

care doesn’t appear to care at all…

 

Here is her situation in her words:  A note: 

This mom deliberately crashed her supply in the first week or so due to extreme

pain with nursing and pumping.  She was an emotional wreck and just couldn’t

handle the pain.  About 2 ½ wks later, when the milk was gone she changed her

mind and started pumping just 2-3 times per day.  Within a week she was making

12 ounces.  She increased to 5 times per day and had a full supply within a

week.  I finally saw her in person (I’d been encouraging that for quite a while

– she just wasn’t ready) about a week after her supply was fully meeting baby’s

needs and switched her to proper fitting flanges so that her pumping was no

longer painful.  Her supply then jumped to nearly 70 oz per day – on only 5-6

pumpings!  She has tried to reduce her supply repeatedly with sage – it will

drop no more than 5 ounces (and that is taking a double amount of sage that the

average mom would take) and when she stops after a week or so, her supply

rebounds like crazy.    Here are her comments:  Thoughts are greatly

appreciated!

 

 

Weight loss

vs. weight gain:

            Increase

calories, lose weight but milk supply also increases

            Quantity

of calories needed to lose weight is higher than I can comfortably eat

            Consume

comfortable amount of calories (1300-1500), weight rapidly increases

Supply resistant

to decrease:

            Cannot

use Sudafed due to side effects

            Sage

brings supply down minimally and for short time only

            Trying

to cut out a pump results in

clogged ducts that take about a day to resolve

Let-down is

always slow

            Recuse

Remedy worked for a while and then stopped

            Warm

compresses help minimally

            Massage

with or without heat does little to increase let-down

            Need

to pump for about 15 minutes just to get let-down and then milk flows more

readily

            Just

pumping to comfort means pumping around 35 minutes (gets uncomfortably full

again after

                        1

½-2 hours after pump)

            Pumping

to “empty” results in 40-45 minute pump

Feel

extremely worn out following a pumping session

            Eating

a snack prior to or during pumping does not improve outcome

 

The lowest I

can get my supply is around 65 ounces.  The next day will be really

uncomfortable.  If I try to do this two days in a row, I am beyond

uncomfortable and have difficulty even holding baby.

I tried

decreasing to 4 or 5 pumps for a few days and only pumped to comfort. I still

ended up with 73-77 ounces. I’m doing 1 tsp. sage four times per day during

this too.

 

 

 

 

 

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

[Guest guest]

Thank you! I'm not the only one who didn't get that! Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- Subject: Re: Tough

situation for mom need input...To: Date: Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 9:08 AM

Jan,

I understand the Altoids, but what's in the Starburst to reduce milk supply?

Dee Kassing

Can she continuously pop peppermint altoids or starburst candies?

Jan

[Guest guest]

I know about peppermint... but the only starbursts I know are fruit flavored.. Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- Subject: Re:

Tough situation for mom need input...To: Date: Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 9:04 AM

Peppermint. Which can decrease supply. Candy canes/starburst candies/peppermint altoids....may help, won't hurt, and at the least she might have nice breath.

Jan

Jan, why starburst?

Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.com

Breastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/

Subject: Re: Tough situation for mom need input...To: Date: Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 6:44 AM

She may need to talk to an endocrinologist. In really bad situations like this she can either go on estrogenic birth control pills or parlodel, though that may have rebound effects as well. I expect her prolactin levels are out of the stratosphere. Or, she has three times the amount of functional breast tissue that the rest of us have....

Be really interesting to do a prolactin level on her. Wonder what her *resting* level is!!

Can she continuously pop peppermint altoids or starburst candies?

Jan

Hi All,

Cross posting because I just don’t know what else to do for this poor mom. Have suggested she go to an endocrinologist for help but she is fighting with her primary care just for a referral. Primary care doesn’t appear to care at all…

Here is her situation in her words: A note: This mom deliberately crashed her supply in the first week or so due to extreme pain with nursing and pumping. She was an emotional wreck and just couldn’t handle the pain. About 2 ½ wks later, when the milk was gone she changed her mind and started pumping just 2-3 times per day. Within a week she was making 12 ounces. She increased to 5 times per day and had a full supply within a week. I finally saw her in person (I’d been encouraging that for quite a while – she just wasn’t ready) about a week after her supply was fully meeting baby’s needs and switched her to proper fitting flanges so that her pumping was no longer painful. Her supply then jumped to nearly 70 oz per day – on only 5-6 pumpings! She has tried to reduce her supply repeatedly with sage – it will drop no more than 5 ounces (and that is taking a double amount of sage that the average mom would take) and when she stops after a week or so, her supply rebounds like crazy. Here are her comments: Thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Weight loss vs. weight gain:

Increase calories, lose weight but milk supply also increases

Quantity of calories needed to lose weight is higher than I can comfortably eat

Consume comfortable amount of calories (1300-1500), weight rapidly increases

Supply resistant to decrease:

Cannot use Sudafed due to side effects

Sage brings supply down minimally and for short time only

Trying to cut out a pump results in clogged ducts that take about a day to resolve

Let-down is always slow

Recuse Remedy worked for a while and then stopped

Warm compresses help minimally

Massage with or without heat does little to increase let-down

Need to pump for about 15 minutes just to get let-down and then milk flows more readily

Just pumping to comfort means pumping around 35 minutes (gets uncomfortably full again after

1 ½-2 hours after pump)

Pumping to “empty†results in 40-45 minute pump

Feel extremely worn out following a pumping session

Eating a snack prior to or during pumping does not improve outcome

The lowest I can get my supply is around 65 ounces. The next day will be really uncomfortable. If I try to do this two days in a row, I am beyond uncomfortable and have difficulty even holding baby.

I tried decreasing to 4 or 5 pumps for a few days and only pumped to comfort. I still ended up with 73-77 ounces. I’m doing 1 tsp. sage four times per day during this too.

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

[Guest guest]

Starlight? Starsomething...restaurants hand them out like -- um -- candy.

Jan

I know about peppermint... but the only starbursts I know are fruit flavored..

Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.com

Breastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/

Subject: Re: Tough situation for mom need input...To: Date: Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 6:44 AM

She may need to talk to an endocrinologist. In really bad situations like this she can either go on estrogenic birth control pills or parlodel, though that may have rebound effects as well. I expect her prolactin levels are out of the stratosphere. Or, she has three times the amount of functional breast tissue that the rest of us have....

Be really interesting to do a prolactin level on her. Wonder what her *resting* level is!!

Can she continuously pop peppermint altoids or starburst candies?

Jan

Hi All,

Cross posting because I just don’t know what else to do for this poor mom. Have suggested she go to an endocrinologist for help but she is fighting with her primary care just for a referral. Primary care doesn’t appear to care at all…

Here is her situation in her words: A note: This mom deliberately crashed her supply in the first week or so due to extreme pain with nursing and pumping. She was an emotional wreck and just couldn’t handle the pain. About 2 ½ wks later, when the milk was gone she changed her mind and started pumping just 2-3 times per day. Within a week she was making 12 ounces. She increased to 5 times per day and had a full supply within a week. I finally saw her in person (I’d been encouraging that for quite a while – she just wasn’t ready) about a week after her supply was fully meeting baby’s needs and switched her to proper fitting flanges so that her pumping was no longer painful. Her supply then jumped to nearly 70 oz per day – on only 5-6 pumpings! She has tried to reduce her supply repeatedly with sage – it will drop no more than 5 ounces (and that is taking a double amount of sage that the average mom would take) and when she stops after a week or so, her supply rebounds like crazy. Here are her comments: Thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Weight loss vs. weight gain:

Increase calories, lose weight but milk supply also increases

Quantity of calories needed to lose weight is higher than I can comfortably eat

Consume comfortable amount of calories (1300-1500), weight rapidly increases

Supply resistant to decrease:

Cannot use Sudafed due to side effects

Sage brings supply down minimally and for short time only

Trying to cut out a pump results in clogged ducts that take about a day to resolve

Let-down is always slow

Recuse Remedy worked for a while and then stopped

Warm compresses help minimally

Massage with or without heat does little to increase let-down

Need to pump for about 15 minutes just to get let-down and then milk flows more readily

Just pumping to comfort means pumping around 35 minutes (gets uncomfortably full again after

1 ½-2 hours after pump)

Pumping to “empty†results in 40-45 minute pump

Feel extremely worn out following a pumping session

Eating a snack prior to or during pumping does not improve outcome

The lowest I can get my supply is around 65 ounces. The next day will be really uncomfortable. If I try to do this two days in a row, I am beyond uncomfortable and have difficulty even holding baby.

I tried decreasing to 4 or 5 pumps for a few days and only pumped to comfort. I still ended up with 73-77 ounces. I’m doing 1 tsp. sage four times per day during this too.

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

[Guest guest]

Candy canes and altoids, yes. But I don't think there are any mint-flavored starbursts, Jan. Starbursts all seem to be a bit more sour or fruit-flavored.

DeePeppermint. Which can decrease supply. Candy canes/starburst candies/peppermint altoids....may help, won't hurt, and at the least she might have nice breath.

Jan

[Guest guest]

OH! Yes, I think they *are* called "starlights". They are round mints wrapped in cellophane that restaurants either give you with the bill or have sitting at the cash register for you to help yourself, as after-dinner mints. And yes, *those* are mints and might help.

LOL! I totally understand how you twisted it, Jan. I know you have previously posted about "statin brain." I stopped taking my Lipitor because I just couldn't think when I was on it. So, now I can think better, but I still find myself "twisting" a lot of things!

Dee

Subject: Re: Tough situation for mom need input...To: Date: Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 6:44 AM

She may need to talk to an endocrinologist. In really bad situations like this she can either go on estrogenic birth control pills or parlodel, though that may have rebound effects as well. I expect her prolactin levels are out of the stratosphere. Or, she has three times the amount of functional breast tissue that the rest of us have....

Be really interesting to do a prolactin level on her. Wonder what her *resting* level is!!

Can she continuously pop peppermint altoids or starburst candies?

Jan

Hi All,

Cross posting because I just don’t know what else to do for this poor mom. Have suggested she go to an endocrinologist for help but she is fighting with her primary care just for a referral. Primary care doesn’t appear to care at all…

Here is her situation in her words: A note: This mom deliberately crashed her supply in the first week or so due to extreme pain with nursing and pumping. She was an emotional wreck and just couldn’t handle the pain. About 2 ½ wks later, when the milk was gone she changed her mind and started pumping just 2-3 times per day. Within a week she was making 12 ounces. She increased to 5 times per day and had a full supply within a week. I finally saw her in person (I’d been encouraging that for quite a while – she just wasn’t ready) about a week after her supply was fully meeting baby’s needs and switched her to proper fitting flanges so that her pumping was no longer painful. Her supply then jumped to nearly 70 oz per day – on only 5-6 pumpings! She has tried to

reduce her supply repeatedly with sage – it will drop no more than 5 ounces (and that is taking a double amount of sage that the average mom would take) and when she stops after a week or so, her supply rebounds like crazy. Here are her comments: Thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Weight loss vs. weight gain:

Increase calories, lose weight but milk supply also increases

Quantity of calories needed to lose weight is higher than I can comfortably eat

Consume comfortable amount of calories (1300-1500), weight rapidly increases

Supply resistant to decrease:

Cannot use Sudafed due to side effects

Sage brings supply down minimally and for short time only

Trying to cut out a pump results in clogged ducts that take about a day to resolve

Let-down is always slow

Recuse Remedy worked for a while and then stopped

Warm compresses help minimally

Massage with or without heat does little to increase let-down

Need to pump for about 15 minutes just to get let-down and then milk flows more readily

Just pumping to comfort means pumping around 35 minutes (gets uncomfortably full again after

1 ½-2 hours after pump)

Pumping to “empty†results in 40-45 minute pump

Feel extremely worn out following a pumping session

Eating a snack prior to or during pumping does not improve outcome

The lowest I can get my supply is around 65 ounces. The next day will be really uncomfortable. If I try to do this two days in a row, I am beyond uncomfortable and have difficulty even holding baby.

I tried decreasing to 4 or 5 pumps for a few days and only pumped to comfort. I still ended up with 73-77 ounces. I’m doing 1 tsp. sage four times per day during this too.

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

[Guest guest]

Sorry Dee, wrong name. Those peppermint candies handed out at restaurants....

Chalk it up to very old age.

Jan

Candy canes and altoids, yes. But I don't think there are any mint-flavored starbursts, Jan. Starbursts all seem to be a bit more sour or fruit-flavored.

DeePeppermint. Which can decrease supply. Candy canes/starburst candies/peppermint altoids....may help, won't hurt, and at the least she might have nice breath.

Jan

[Guest guest]

ooohhhh... Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- Subject: Re: Tough situation for mom need input...To:

Date: Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 9:45 AM

OH! Yes, I think they *are* called "starlights". They are round mints wrapped in cellophane that restaurants either give you with the bill or have sitting at the cash register for you to help yourself, as after-dinner mints. And yes, *those* are mints and might help.

LOL! I totally understand how you twisted it, Jan. I know you have previously posted about "statin brain." I stopped taking my Lipitor because I just couldn't think when I was on it. So, now I can think better, but I still find myself "twisting" a lot of things!

Dee

Subject: Re: Tough situation for mom need input...To: Date: Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 6:44 AM

She may need to talk to an endocrinologist. In really bad situations like this she can either go on estrogenic birth control pills or parlodel, though that may have rebound effects as well. I expect her prolactin levels are out of the stratosphere. Or, she has three times the amount of functional breast tissue that the rest of us have....

Be really interesting to do a prolactin level on her. Wonder what her *resting* level is!!

Can she continuously pop peppermint altoids or starburst candies?

Jan

Hi All,

Cross posting because I just don’t know what else to do for this poor mom. Have suggested she go to an endocrinologist for help but she is fighting with her primary care just for a referral. Primary care doesn’t appear to care at all…

Here is her situation in her words: A note: This mom deliberately crashed her supply in the first week or so due to extreme pain with nursing and pumping. She was an emotional wreck and just couldn’t handle the pain. About 2 ½ wks later, when the milk was gone she changed her mind and started pumping just 2-3 times per day. Within a week she was making 12 ounces. She increased to 5 times per day and had a full supply within a week. I finally saw her in person (I’d been encouraging that for quite a while – she just wasn’t ready) about a week after her supply was fully meeting baby’s needs and switched her to proper fitting flanges so that her pumping was no longer painful.

Her supply then jumped to nearly 70 oz per day – on only 5-6 pumpings! She has tried to

reduce her supply repeatedly with sage – it will drop no more than 5 ounces (and that is taking a double amount of sage that the average mom would take) and when she stops after a week or so, her supply rebounds like crazy. Here are her comments: Thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Weight loss vs. weight gain:

Increase calories, lose weight but milk supply also increases

Quantity of calories needed to lose weight is higher than I can comfortably eat

Consume comfortable amount of calories (1300-1500), weight rapidly increases

Supply resistant to decrease:

Cannot use Sudafed due to side effects

Sage brings supply down minimally and for short time only

Trying to cut out a pump results in clogged ducts that take about a day to resolve

Let-down is always slow

Recuse Remedy worked for a while and then stopped

Warm compresses help minimally

Massage with or without heat does little to increase let-down

Need to pump for about 15 minutes just to get let-down and then milk flows more readily

Just pumping to comfort means pumping around 35 minutes (gets uncomfortably full again after

1 ½-2 hours after pump)

Pumping to “empty†results in 40-45 minute pump

Feel extremely worn out following a pumping session

Eating a snack prior to or during pumping does not improve outcome

The lowest I can get my supply is around 65 ounces. The next day will be really uncomfortable. If I try to do this two days in a row, I am beyond uncomfortable and have difficulty even holding baby.

I tried decreasing to 4 or 5 pumps for a few days and only pumped to comfort. I still ended up with 73-77 ounces. I’m doing 1 tsp. sage four times per day during this too.

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net