Re: just need to scream for a second LOL

[Guest guest]

I'm screaming with you Pam. I scream nearly every day about the same thing!! Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- From: Pam MazzellaDiBosco

Subject: just need to scream for a second LOLTo: ibclc-pp Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 5:00 PM

Ok. Just saw a picture posted on someone's fb page. She is a doula. She calls herself more than she is, but I can't go there because that is a serious problem with a lot of people these days. In my area there are so many people playing at breastfeeding consultant that the public is clueless about who is really qualified. And it is a huge problem because some of the people charging for breastfeeding help seriously have zero skills and some have a few skills but really just enough to do more harm than good. But most are either CLC or get this, Lamaze certified as BF Specialist or CLE from CAPPY and I do really want to shake them...but the energy it would take me to remain calm is just not there. Something about someone claiming to be what they are not, and 'practicing' as though they are an LC just sets me off. She is supplementing a baby with what looks like a syringe. The

baby is in very poor position, the syringe is just stuck in the baby's mouth...not even correct use of an alternative method. Seriously, she might as well use a bottle with a fast flow nipple for all the good the way she is doing it is going to be for the baby. Ok. It's just a snapshot. She may have corrected it. I don't know. But she is using this pic as a 'sign' sort of that she helps with feeding problems! She is a doula. She should be showing pics of supporting a mom in labor! Oh, and she is not my competition at all. Not even in my county, haha, and still I want to scream.

Thank you for letting me scream. Haha.-- Pam MazzellaDiBosco, IBCLC, RLCBirthing & Beyond, Inc.Labor Support and Lactation Consultant Services

[Guest guest]

Make that another one screaming with you…sigh…how

people 1) get away with it and 2) think it is acceptable and ethical to do that

is beyond me…

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

[Guest guest]

It is so so so frustrating! If you confront them it is all " what you cannot handle the competition? " and when you go to the birth centers and say " hey, you are using this person to refer to and she is not qualified " you get the same thing! even worse because the midwives already feel threatened themselves.  anyway...i get that everyone in the birth world wants to do bf too, but then hire an IBCLC.  The other day I told a midwife how would she feel if instead of referring to a midwife I referred to a doula and said, oh, you don't really need a midwife, birth is natural afterall!

 

 

Make that another one screaming with you…sigh…how

people 1) get away with it and 2) think it is acceptable and ethical to do that

is beyond me…

 

 

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

 

-- Pam MazzellaDiBosco, IBCLC, RLCBirthing & Beyond, Inc.Labor Support and Lactation Consultant Services

[Guest guest]

I train CLE's for CAPPA and the scope of practice of a CLE is crystal CLEAR! You

can file a grievance with the CLE Program Director, CLEDirector@.... CAPPA

CLE's do not perform evaluations and assessments and their SoP is limited to

'teaching' (thus the 'educator' in the credential).

I know there are a lot of us on this list from the Puget Sound and Pacific

Northwest area, the home of the doula movement

It is a huge problem, and for me it is selfish for people who are untrained to

hang onto these clients. It's often about their ego, they don't want to

acknowledge where their skills begin and end. It is a disservice to mothers and

babies to not refer.

I share your frustration!!

H. Kinne BA IBCLC RLC ICCE CD(DONA)

www.CascadePerinatalServices.com

>

> Ok. Just saw a picture posted on someone's fb page. She is a doula. She

> calls herself more than she is, but I can't go there because that is a

> serious problem with a lot of people these days. In my area there are so

> many people playing at breastfeeding consultant that the public is clueless

> about who is really qualified. And it is a huge problem because some of the

> people charging for breastfeeding help seriously have zero skills and some

> have a few skills but really just enough to do more harm than good. But

> most are either CLC or get this, Lamaze certified as BF Specialist or CLE

> from CAPPY and I do really want to shake them...but the energy it would take

> me to remain calm is just not there. Something about someone claiming to be

> what they are not, and 'practicing' as though they are an LC just sets me

> off. She is supplementing a baby with what looks like a syringe. The baby

> is in very poor position, the syringe is just stuck in the baby's

> mouth...not even correct use of an alternative method. Seriously, she might

> as well use a bottle with a fast flow nipple for all the good the way she is

> doing it is going to be for the baby. Ok. It's just a snapshot. She may

> have corrected it. I don't know. But she is using this pic as a 'sign' sort

> of that she helps with feeding problems! She is a doula. She should be

> showing pics of supporting a mom in labor! Oh, and she is not my

> competition at all. Not even in my county, haha, and still I want to

> scream.

> Thank you for letting me scream. Haha.

>

> --

> Pam MazzellaDiBosco, IBCLC, RLC

> Birthing & Beyond, Inc.

> Labor Support and Lactation Consultant Services

>

>

[Guest guest]

I had a CPM in my area tell me she considers herself a lactation consultant

because she 'took the same classes' she just doesn't want to pay to sit the

exam. Mind you she serves the number of clients in a year that I see in half a

month. And by definition, she should never be serving the late preterm or

preterm population because she is to risk out clients in labor at that

gestational age.

I love that we have LM's and CPM's in my area, and they are a great resource.

But I clean up after them as well. Seriously excessive weight loss (18%+), IGT,

tongue ties, etc. etc. Do not understand how to take a good history. I saw one

mother who had an augmentation and when I examined her she still had the

residual appearance of hypoplastic breasts....no lact II, described

underdevelopment in puberty, no changes during pregnancy....I was the 3rd person

she saw after a CPM and another IBCLC......

H. Kinne BA IBCLC RLC ICCE CD(DONA)

www.CascadePerinatalServices.com

[Guest guest]

I want to ask about this whole " breastfeeding educator " certification that is

offered by various groups. One of the reasons I homeschooled my kids is that I

did not want them to learn from people taught to teach. I wanted them to learn

from people who do what they teach.

I guess I feel the same way about people who " educate " about breastfeeding.

Unless you have expertise with solving breastfeeding problems, are you as

competent to educate about preventing them? And while I do think ego can play a

role, I wonder how prepared these educators are to know when they should refer.

I think educated doulas and midwives and WIC counselors and nurses, etc is a

very good thing. But, I don't know how I would ever separate my teaching from my

clinical experience--it's what makes me a good teacher.

I am just really confounded by the whole delineation and as much as all the

programs claim to make it clear, it sure isn't clear to anyone.

Tow, IBCLC, France

> >

> > Ok. Just saw a picture posted on someone's fb page. She is a doula. She

> > calls herself more than she is, but I can't go there because that is a

> > serious problem with a lot of people these days. In my area there are so

> > many people playing at breastfeeding consultant that the public is clueless

> > about who is really qualified. And it is a huge problem because some of the

> > people charging for breastfeeding help seriously have zero skills and some

> > have a few skills but really just enough to do more harm than good. But

> > most are either CLC or get this, Lamaze certified as BF Specialist or CLE

> > from CAPPY and I do really want to shake them...but the energy it would take

> > me to remain calm is just not there. Something about someone claiming to be

> > what they are not, and 'practicing' as though they are an LC just sets me

> > off. She is supplementing a baby with what looks like a syringe. The baby

> > is in very poor position, the syringe is just stuck in the baby's

> > mouth...not even correct use of an alternative method. Seriously, she might

> > as well use a bottle with a fast flow nipple for all the good the way she is

> > doing it is going to be for the baby. Ok. It's just a snapshot. She may

> > have corrected it. I don't know. But she is using this pic as a 'sign' sort

> > of that she helps with feeding problems! She is a doula. She should be

> > showing pics of supporting a mom in labor! Oh, and she is not my

> > competition at all. Not even in my county, haha, and still I want to

> > scream.

> > Thank you for letting me scream. Haha.

> >

> > --

> > Pam MazzellaDiBosco, IBCLC, RLC

> > Birthing & Beyond, Inc.

> > Labor Support and Lactation Consultant Services

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Michele, thanks for sharing this... I didn't know there was an option to file a grievance. I can definitely see myself doing this... Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- Subject: Re: just need to scream for a second LOLTo: Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 5:25 PM

I train CLE's for CAPPA and the scope of practice of a CLE is crystal CLEAR! You can file a grievance with the CLE Program Director, CLEDirector@.... CAPPA CLE's do not perform evaluations and assessments and their SoP is limited to 'teaching' (thus the 'educator' in the credential).

I know there are a lot of us on this list from the Puget Sound and Pacific Northwest area, the home of the doula movement

It is a huge problem, and for me it is selfish for people who are untrained to hang onto these clients. It's often about their ego, they don't want to acknowledge where their skills begin and end. It is a disservice to mothers and babies to not refer.

I share your frustration!!

H. Kinne BA IBCLC RLC ICCE CD(DONA)

www.CascadePerinatalServices.com

>

> Ok. Just saw a picture posted on someone's fb page. She is a doula. She

> calls herself more than she is, but I can't go there because that is a

> serious problem with a lot of people these days. In my area there are so

> many people playing at breastfeeding consultant that the public is clueless

> about who is really qualified. And it is a huge problem because some of the

> people charging for breastfeeding help seriously have zero skills and some

> have a few skills but really just enough to do more harm than good. But

> most are either CLC or get this, Lamaze certified as BF Specialist or CLE

> from CAPPY and I do really want to shake them...but the energy it would take

> me to remain calm is just not there. Something about someone claiming to be

> what they are not, and 'practicing' as though they are an LC just sets me

> off. She is supplementing a baby with what looks like a syringe. The baby

> is in very poor position, the syringe is just stuck in the baby's

> mouth...not even correct use of an alternative method. Seriously, she might

> as well use a bottle with a fast flow nipple for all the good the way she is

> doing it is going to be for the baby. Ok. It's just a snapshot. She may

> have corrected it. I don't know. But she is using this pic as a 'sign' sort

> of that she helps with feeding problems! She is a doula. She should be

> showing pics of supporting a mom in labor! Oh, and she is not my

> competition at all. Not even in my county, haha, and still I want to

> scream.

> Thank you for letting me scream. Haha.

>

> --

> Pam MazzellaDiBosco, IBCLC, RLC

> Birthing & Beyond, Inc.

> Labor Support and Lactation Consultant Services

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> >

>

> > Ok. Just saw a picture posted on someone's fb page. She is a doula. She

>

> > calls herself more than she is, but I can't go there because that is a

>

> > serious problem with a lot of people these days. In my area there are so

>

> > many people playing at breastfeeding consultant that the public is clueless

>

> > about who is really qualified. And it is a huge problem because some of the

>

> > people charging for breastfeeding help seriously have zero skills and some

>

> > have a few skills but really just enough to do more harm than good. But

>

> > most are either CLC or get this, Lamaze certified as BF Specialist or CLE

>

> > from CAPPY and I do really want to shake them...but the energy it would take

>

> > me to remain calm is just not there. Something about someone claiming to be

>

> > what they are not, and 'practicing' as though they are an LC just sets me

>

> > off. She is supplementing a baby with what looks like a syringe. The baby

>

> > is in very poor position, the syringe is just stuck in the baby's

>

> > mouth...not even correct use of an alternative method. Seriously, she might

>

> > as well use a bottle with a fast flow nipple for all the good the way she is

>

> > doing it is going to be for the baby. Ok. It's just a snapshot. She may

>

> > have corrected it. I don't know. But she is using this pic as a 'sign' sort

>

> > of that she helps with feeding problems! She is a doula. She should be

>

> > showing pics of supporting a mom in labor! Oh, and she is not my

>

> > competition at all. Not even in my county, haha, and still I want to

>

> > scream.

>

> > Thank you for letting me scream. Haha.

>

> >

>

> > --

>

> > Pam MazzellaDiBosco, IBCLC, RLC

>

> > Birthing & Beyond, Inc.

>

> > Labor Support and Lactation Consultant Services

>

> >

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

If they are a doula operating outside of their scope of practice (assuming they

are certified) you can file a grievance with their certifying body.

All I would add, is make sure you know the whole story!

H. Kinne BA IBCLC RLC ICCE CD(DONA)

www.CascadePerinatalServices.com

> >

> > Michele, thanks for sharing this... I didn't know there was an option to

file a grievance.  I can definitely see myself doing this...

> >

> >

> > Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC

> > Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula

> >

> > www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines:

 http://second9months.wordpress.com/

> >

[Guest guest]

I so hear you when you say it's not clear to anyone! I know makes it clear and others who teach say they do as well. But when an individual takes a 5 day course that gives her letters after her name, that individual believes that it means something--that she can now do something she couldn't do before. I know scores of doulas and others who have done this. I'm sure everyone is tired of hearing me rant about this...it's no secret how I feel . I tell anyone who will listen that CLE or CLC or whatever simply means... "you took a 5 day class and got lots of great information and it was really intense and... good for you!" and that's all it means. Trust me...they're not getting this message. I'm not saying the classes are bad. But I think giving a person who takes the class some sort of

certification is not a great idea.We all know what happens. we see the moms after they've been seen by a "LC" and we have a train wreck on our hands..In a couple weeks I'm giving a presentation to the 2 major doula organizations in seattle. one that's pp doulas and one that's birth doulas. They all want to learn about milk supply. That's great! but my main message is refer, refer, refer! I hope I can instill in them the complexity of the issue... Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- Subject: Re: just need to scream for a second LOLTo: Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 6:23 PM

I want to ask about this whole "breastfeeding educator" certification that is offered by various groups. One of the reasons I homeschooled my kids is that I did not want them to learn from people taught to teach. I wanted them to learn from people who do what they teach.

I guess I feel the same way about people who "educate" about breastfeeding. Unless you have expertise with solving breastfeeding problems, are you as competent to educate about preventing them? And while I do think ego can play a role, I wonder how prepared these educators are to know when they should refer. I think educated doulas and midwives and WIC counselors and nurses, etc is a very good thing. But, I don't know how I would ever separate my teaching from my clinical experience--it's what makes me a good teacher.

I am just really confounded by the whole delineation and as much as all the programs claim to make it clear, it sure isn't clear to anyone.

Tow, IBCLC, France

> >

> > Ok. Just saw a picture posted on someone's fb page. She is a doula. She

> > calls herself more than she is, but I can't go there because that is a

> > serious problem with a lot of people these days. In my area there are so

> > many people playing at breastfeeding consultant that the public is clueless

> > about who is really qualified. And it is a huge problem because some of the

> > people charging for breastfeeding help seriously have zero skills and some

> > have a few skills but really just enough to do more harm than good. But

> > most are either CLC or get this, Lamaze certified as BF Specialist or CLE

> > from CAPPY and I do really want to shake them...but the energy it would take

> > me to remain calm is just not there. Something about someone claiming to be

> > what they are not, and 'practicing' as though they are an LC just sets me

> > off. She is supplementing a baby with what looks like a syringe. The baby

> > is in very poor position, the syringe is just stuck in the baby's

> > mouth...not even correct use of an alternative method. Seriously, she might

> > as well use a bottle with a fast flow nipple for all the good the way she is

> > doing it is going to be for the baby. Ok. It's just a snapshot. She may

> > have corrected it. I don't know. But she is using this pic as a 'sign' sort

> > of that she helps with feeding problems! She is a doula. She should be

> > showing pics of supporting a mom in labor! Oh, and she is not my

> > competition at all. Not even in my county, haha, and still I want to

> > scream.

> > Thank you for letting me scream. Haha.

> >

> > --

> > Pam MazzellaDiBosco, IBCLC, RLC

> > Birthing & Beyond, Inc.

> > Labor Support and Lactation Consultant Services

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I know it's a problem, and I agree....perhaps I don't see students of the

CLE training I facilitate going this route as often as we see students taking

the Bastyr or Evergreem lactation management course going this route because my

class is very clearly not an IBLCE exam prep course and all of my students sign

a document 'before' class begins and before they finish registering attesting

that they understand my CLE training is not intended to prepare anyone to become

an IBCLC.

That's not the case with Molly's class. Her class 'is' intended to prepare

students to become IBCLC's.

There is a lot more to the CAPPA CLE certification than attendance of the

workshop. Students need to develop a breastfeeding class curriculum

(educator!!!)...do some observations and reading, and pass an exam. My CLE

course is 3 days, and it is not intended to be a lactation management course,

nor does my course cover the IBLCE exam blue print.

People can see for themselves I address this ad nauseam on my website, and in my

registration process there is a place where students must sign that they have

read the objectives, and they understand that the class does not prepare them to

become an IBCLC or to perform lactation evaluations and assessments.

Molly's class has a lot of history behind it that came well before my time but I

finally convinced the hospital system I work for to stop referring to the LC

positions they had openings for as 'Lactation Educator's and start calling it

what it is, Lactation Consultant, IBCLC!

But I do know it's a problem, and I am a certified birth doula and lactation

educator!

I actually think we will see less of this now with the 90 hour requirement,

people are going to have to make twice the financial and time investment to

attend these trainings. They will likely attract more people who have the actual

intention of certifying as an IBCLC than just getting some breastfeeding

continuing ed.

Anyone can read more here: www.CascadePerinatalServices.com

H. Kinne BA IBCLC RLC ICCE CD(DONA)

>

>

> Subject: Re: just need to scream for a second LOL

> To:

> Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 6:23 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I totally understand, and I completely agree with your concerns, they are valid

and I share them myself.

I don't have any objections to your comments at all, that's where the solutions

and improvements will result, when we are willing to acknowledge that confusion

exists and continue to address it to the best of our abilities.

I can't eliminate it, but I can be part of the solution to reduce it and do my

part as a facilitator.

>

> ...You do know that I don't see YOU as the problem!  I hope you know

that.  It's the culture...  I'm sure Molly's class perpetuates it.  and the

students perpetuate it amongst themselves... that's probably most of the problem

....

>

> Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC

> Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula

>

> www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines:

 http://second9months.wordpress.com/

>

[Guest guest]

I don't mean to sound like I'm picking on anyone but I've worked in this area

for almost 2 decades and the lactation management class that first started in

Evergreen hospital which she now teaches independent and for Bastyr has always,

to the best of my knowledge, stated in the literature that it culminated in a

'Certificate as a Lactation Educator' this is taken straight from her website:

<This course is five days in length. Participants will obtain a Certificate as a

Lactation Educator.>

http://evergreenperinataleducation.com/calendar/#141

And this is from Bastyr's website where it is offered:

<Completion of PEBL provides a Lactation Educator Certificate.>

http://www.seattlemidwifery.org/simkin-school/lactation-education.html

I can't recall lecture discussions about this but clearly the promotional

literature is advertising the culmination of a certificate.

> >

> > ...You do know that I don't see YOU as the problem!  I hope you

know that.  It's the culture...  I'm sure Molly's class perpetuates it.

 and the students perpetuate it amongst themselves... that's probably most of

the problem ...

> >

> > Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC

> > Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula

> >

> > www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines:

 http://second9months.wordpress.com/

> >

>

[Guest guest]

that's what i thought... Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- Subject: Re: just need to scream for a second LOLTo:

Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 9:00 PM

I don't mean to sound like I'm picking on anyone but I've worked in this area for almost 2 decades and the lactation management class that first started in Evergreen hospital which she now teaches independent and for Bastyr has always, to the best of my knowledge, stated in the literature that it culminated in a 'Certificate as a Lactation Educator' this is taken straight from her website:

<This course is five days in length. Participants will obtain a Certificate as a Lactation Educator.>

http://evergreenperinataleducation.com/calendar/#141

And this is from Bastyr's website where it is offered:

<Completion of PEBL provides a Lactation Educator Certificate.>

http://www.seattlemidwifery.org/simkin-school/lactation-education.html

I can't recall lecture discussions about this but clearly the promotional literature is advertising the culmination of a certificate.

> >

> > ...You do know that I don't see YOU as the problem!  I hope you know that.  It's the culture...  I'm sure Molly's class perpetuates it.  and the students perpetuate it amongst themselves... that's probably most of the problem ...

> >

> > Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC

> > Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula

> >

> > www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines:  http://second9months.wordpress.com/

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I had a mother call last week. She had already called previously and asked some questions. Now she was getting ready to set up an appt to come see me. But she mentioned that she was using a tube feeder on the advice of a woman who runs a local consignment shop for baby things. Now this shop owner is really very bf-friendly, has a scale where moms can come in whenever they want to do pre- and post-feed weights, is fairly knowledgeable because she does attend conferences and read a lot. But this baby had a sucking problem, so the tube feeder should not have been recommended. I explained this to the mother making the appointment. The mother said, "But the other woman said I should." I could not help myself. Out of my mouth comes, "I am an IBCLC. She is not. I trump her." The mother made an

appointment anyway.

Dee Kassing

It is so so so frustrating! If you confront them it is all "what you cannot handle the competition?" and when you go to the birth centers and say "hey, you are using this person to refer to and she is not qualified" you get the same thing! even worse because the midwives already feel threatened themselves. anyway...i get that everyone in the birth world wants to do bf too, but then hire an IBCLC. The other day I told a midwife how would she feel if instead of referring to a midwife I referred to a doula and said, oh, you don't really need a midwife, birth is natural afterall!

[Guest guest]

Last week a friend of mine congratulated me on my new job!  I was a bit confused, and she explained that the hospital had hired a pt " lactation consultant, " and since I'm the only IBCLC in this corner of the state, she " knew " it must be me.

ILCA still says I'm the only IBCLC for miles around, so I guess the hospital has hired a nurse with a CLC or something.  I wish them well, and I know they prefer an RN who can be moved around, but I'm still disappointed.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Dee I admit I have said something similar to that when a mom calls and wants to know why I'm saying something so very different than the previous "consultant." so much education needs to be done! Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- Subject: Re: Re: just need to scream for a second LOLTo: Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 9:37 PM

I had a mother call last week. She had already called previously and asked some questions. Now she was getting ready to set up an appt to come see me. But she mentioned that she was using a tube feeder on the advice of a woman who runs a local consignment shop for baby things. Now this shop owner is really very bf-friendly, has a scale where moms can come in whenever they want to do pre- and post-feed weights, is fairly knowledgeable because she does attend conferences and read a lot. But this baby had a sucking problem, so the tube feeder should not have been recommended. I explained this to the mother making the appointment. The mother said, "But the other woman said I should." I could not help myself. Out of my mouth comes, "I am an IBCLC. She is not. I trump her." The

mother made an

appointment anyway.

Dee Kassing

It is so so so frustrating! If you confront them it is all "what you cannot handle the competition?" and when you go to the birth centers and say "hey, you are using this person to refer to and she is not qualified" you get the same thing! even worse because the midwives already feel threatened themselves. anyway...i get that everyone in the birth world wants to do bf too, but then hire an IBCLC. The other day I told a midwife how would she feel if instead of referring to a midwife I referred to a doula and said, oh, you don't really need a midwife, birth is natural afterall!

[Guest guest]

But you probably say it nicer than I did! I was kind of surprised she still made the appointment. LOL!

I had a mother call last week. She had already called previously and asked some questions. Now she was getting ready to set up an appt to come see me. But she mentioned that she was using a tube feeder on the advice of a woman who runs a local consignment shop for baby things. Now this shop owner is really very bf-friendly, has a scale where moms can come in whenever they want to do pre- and post-feed weights, is fairly knowledgeable because she does attend conferences and read a lot. But this baby had a sucking problem, so the tube feeder should not have been recommended. I explained this to the mother making the appointment. The mother said, "But the other woman said I should." I could not help myself. Out of my mouth comes, "I am an IBCLC. She is not. I trump her." The mother made an appointment anyway.

Dee Kassing

[Guest guest]

Dee, sometimes the problem is with a new IBCLC or someone who has no clinical experience- I see a good number of new IBCLC’s who have never personally seen FTT, TT, or any of the other myriad of problems, because they racked up hours only in the first 48 hours of life. Then you can’t say you trump them! It is so frustrating! Billowitz, IBCLC From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Dee KassingSent: Monday, August 15, 2011 7:37 AMTo: Subject: Re: Re: just need to scream for a second LOL I had a mother call last week. She had already called previously and asked some questions. Now she was getting ready to set up an appt to come see me. But she mentioned that she was using a tube feeder on the advice of a woman who runs a local consignment shop for baby things. Now this shop owner is really very bf-friendly, has a scale where moms can come in whenever they want to do pre- and post-feed weights, is fairly knowledgeable because she does attend conferences and read a lot. But this baby had a sucking problem, so the tube feeder should not have been recommended. I explained this to the mother making the appointment. The mother said, " But the other woman said I should. " I could not help myself. Out of my mouth comes, " I am an IBCLC. She is not. I trump her. " The mother made an appointment anyway. Dee Kassing It is so so so frustrating! If you confront them it is all " what you cannot handle the competition? " and when you go to the birth centers and say " hey, you are using this person to refer to and she is not qualified " you get the same thing! even worse because the midwives already feel threatened themselves. anyway...i get that everyone in the birth world wants to do bf too, but then hire an IBCLC. The other day I told a midwife how would she feel if instead of referring to a midwife I referred to a doula and said, oh, you don't really need a midwife, birth is natural afterall! __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6377 (20110814) __________The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

Bingo!CherylTo: Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 2:52 AMSubject: RE: Re: just need to scream

for a second LOL

Dee, sometimes the problem is with a new IBCLC or someone who has no clinical experience- I see a good number of new IBCLC’s who have never personally seen FTT, TT, or any of the other myriad of problems, because they racked up hours only in the first 48 hours of life. Then you can’t say you trump them! It is so frustrating! Billowitz, IBCLC From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Dee KassingSent: Monday, August 15, 2011 7:37 AMTo: Subject: Re: Re: just need to scream for a second LOL I had a mother call last week. She had already called previously and asked some questions. Now she was getting ready to set up an appt to come see me. But she mentioned that she was using a tube feeder on the advice of a woman who runs a local consignment shop for baby things. Now this shop owner is really very

bf-friendly, has a scale where moms can come in whenever they want to do pre- and post-feed weights, is fairly knowledgeable because she does attend conferences and read a lot. But this baby had a sucking problem, so the tube feeder should not have been recommended. I explained this to the mother making the appointment. !

; The mother said, "But the other woman said I should." I could not help myself. Out of my mouth comes, "I am an IBCLC. She is not. I trump her." The mother made an appointment anyway. Dee Kassing It is so so so frustrating! If you confront them it is all "what you cannot handle the competition?" and when you go to the birth centers and say "hey, you are using this person to refer to and she is not qualified" you get the same thing! even worse because the midwives already feel threatened themselves. anyway...i get that everyone in the birth world wants to do bf too, but then hire an IBCLC. The other day I told a midwife how would she feel

if instead of referring to a midwife I referred to a doula and said, oh, you don't really need a midwife, birth is natural afterall! __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6377 (20110814) __________The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

Talking about newbies, I wonder if I am one. I have 8 years as a Mother/Baby

and Nicu RN wear my speciality has always been breastfeeding I got my IBCLC in

2008 and currently have 2 part time hospital LC jobs, but the one is far away I

would like to quit and start my own private practice. Also there isn't any

other PPLC's in my community so I am excited to feel a need. I just wondering

how do you know when you are experienced enough for PP work. I have been to

some conferences, some on line education, and of course read books. I plan to

continue to increasing my knowledge.

[Guest guest]

Have you had a chance to observe an experienced LC perform a full outpatient or

private practice consult?

From the history taking, to observing the teaching, and development of a plan of

care, and the documentation.

I think observing other private practice and outpatient consults was a really

important component of my learning.

>

> Talking about newbies, I wonder if I am one. I have 8 years as a Mother/Baby

and Nicu RN wear my speciality has always been breastfeeding I got my IBCLC in

2008 and currently have 2 part time hospital LC jobs, but the one is far away I

would like to quit and start my own private practice. Also there isn't any

other PPLC's in my community so I am excited to feel a need. I just wondering

how do you know when you are experienced enough for PP work. I have been to

some conferences, some on line education, and of course read books. I plan to

continue to increasing my knowledge.

>

[Guest guest]

Hmmmm. Interesting question, Karman. How do you know when you're not a newbie anymore? Got me to thinking about it. I think I felt like I wasn't a newbie anymore when I rarely had to ask colleagues for ideas about various situations the mothers presented with. We all still come up against something we've never experienced before, every now and then. But when we usually feel confident we were helpful in solving the problem, then I think we aren't "newbies" anymore. Just my opinion.

Dee Kassing

Talking about newbies, I wonder if I am one. I have 8 years as a Mother/Baby and Nicu RN wear my speciality has always been breastfeeding I got my IBCLC in 2008 and currently have 2 part time hospital LC jobs, but the one is far away I would like to quit and start my own private practice. Also there isn't any other PPLC's in my community so I am excited to feel a need. I just wondering how do you know when you are experienced enough for PP work. I have been to some conferences, some on line education, and of course read books. I plan to continue to increasing my knowledge.

[Guest guest]

I've been doing this for 20 years and I still don't feel like I know it all. humbled every day with every client. Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- From: Dee Kassing

Subject: Re: Re: just need to scream for a second LOLTo: Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 9:40 PM

Hmmmm. Interesting question, Karman. How do you know when you're not a newbie anymore? Got me to thinking about it. I think I felt like I wasn't a newbie anymore when I rarely had to ask colleagues for ideas about various situations the mothers presented with. We all still come up against something we've never experienced before, every now and then. But when we usually feel confident we were helpful in solving the problem, then I think we aren't "newbies" anymore. Just my opinion.

Dee Kassing

Talking about newbies, I wonder if I am one. I have 8 years as a Mother/Baby and Nicu RN wear my speciality has always been breastfeeding I got my IBCLC in 2008 and currently have 2 part time hospital LC jobs, but the one is far away I would like to quit and start my own private practice. Also there isn't any other PPLC's in my community so I am excited to feel a need. I just wondering how do you know when you are experienced enough for PP work. I have been to some conferences, some on line education, and of course read books. I plan to continue to increasing my knowledge.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for that tip!  I like the way you phrased that. From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Dee KassingSent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 3:26 AMTo: Subject: RE: Re: just need to scream for a second LOL Hi, . Yes, I get those too. Here's what I have come up with for explaining to mothers why I'm not saying the same thing as those " newbies " . (I don't call them that to the mother!) " I have more than 30 years' experience working with mothers and babies. You just don't see everything in the first couple of years--you need time to get your experience. Also, there are many, many breastfeeding conferences now. None of us can afford to go to all of them. So since we are each attending different conferences, we each learn different " tidbits " of information. Sometimes you have to see 3 or 4 or 5 different IBCLCs before you find the one who has been to the right conference to learn the tidbit that *you* need to make things better. " So, this gives a polite " out " to the newbies, so I don't look like I'm just complaining about them when I tell a mother why she needed to find me! Dee Dee, sometimes the problem is with a new IBCLC or someone who has no clinical experience- I see a good number of new IBCLC’s who have never personally seen FTT, TT, or any of the other myriad of problems, because they racked up hours only in the first 48 hours of life. Then you can’t say you trump them! It is so frustrating! Billowitz, IBCLC __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6380 (20110815) __________The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.http://www.eset.com