Re:Re: PJ

[Guest guest]

PJ.....

First I'd like to say I really hope your feeling better soon! So many people

have been sick with the cold and flu and other things with it. Please take good

care of yourself.

I understand what you speak of with having a relationship with parents that are

toxic. The is a book out there called Toxic Parents. I dont know who the author

is but my sister had bought the book and I could only bring myself to read bits

of it. Everytime I started to read it, well, they might of well as just of

printed their names in the book.

It is hard to give them up, even though they have done awful things. Its

terrible hard and painful. I was advised by many not to have anything to do with

them but I didnt think that was right.

One day I decided to have a talk with them, bring up things that I thought they

didnt feel how they hurt me. Well....was I surprised when they came back at me

with lies, so many lies, and even when I had proof of something they still

lied...they actually believed their lies... told me they were the perfect

parents and I had problems. They never acknowledged anything, nothing, not one

thing, they did wrong. My father told me to f-----o........well I left.

I was in shock. We never spoke for awhile. At the time I was in councelling and

I was told that people like that actually believe what they say, its not the

truth but what they say would never put them in a situation ever to make them

look bad or ever wrong,and they end up believing their lies as the truth. The

traits of toxic people.

Well the subject of how I feel about them has never come up and never will. If

there is one think I cant stand ..its lies...I wont put up with it and never

have and never will. To this day I still cant believe what they said to me. In a

small instance, when I was pregnant with the twins I was hospilized during the

7th month on bedrest. They never came to see me once. My ex worked and took care

of our 5 yr old. They never offered to take care of her or even see her or even

have them over to supper to help him.

When I brought this up under doing an act of kindness they said I was lieing.

They came to see me all the time.....HUH!!!! How could they say that...and

believe it.....I was the one lying there alone day after day and that hurt me

alot. Now I knew this was a lie so I persued it...they ended up changed their

story to I wouldnt allow them to see me.

Anyway.....I cant say I dont understand that your parents would ask you to do

that with your husband because its something people like that do. I so

congradulate you on what you did do.

They had NO right to even say it in the first place.

Even though they never spoke to you for 2 yrs (been there) I believe everything

happens for a reason and maybe this reason was to take toxic people out of your

life and let you experience the joy of what its like to live without that in

your life. You felt stronger, and healthier. YOU needed to do that for you!

They will never change..please believe me....unless they want to.

Since I chose to have something to do with my parents I had to draw a line and

set down rules. They didnt like them and still dont. They have tried often to

walk over my line. But since I understand they cant change and never will I had

to set consquences to them, and they dont even know any of this.

It isnt easy to deal with this(is now) for you are used to being the small one

and they feel I guess, the top ones over you.

I rem one time I was speaking to my mother on the phone and she was yelling and

I stopped and said you are yelling...she said I am not..I said yes you are...now

if you chose to continue to speak with me you will stop yelling or I will end

this conversation. She stopped but the talk ended quickly and she never spoke

for awhile. I had to keep this up until they learned I will not put up with

certain things, and it works, and it has to be learned, and its not easy

sometimes.

This also is how to deal with all people in your life who treat you like you

dont want to be treated.

My choice is.....your choice is....I chose not to...(whatever), if you continue

then I will leave or whatever. Then you must do the action. Always done calm

with each knowing thier choices.

I speak of this as this is what I was taught of dealing with toxic people in my

life if I choose to keep them around. It has worked for me.

It isnt easy to stand up to people and it has to be learned but I will tell you

something after it is and your able to do it, I cant tell you how good it feels.

But now I find it hard to do this with my sister, and she is one the the most

toxic persons I know.

Its just taken me longer to deal with her. She isnt speaking to me right now so

thats good, she'll be back. It gives me a rest I think.

BUT she does know I have set up my line and she seems to border on the edge all

the time but rarely crosses it.

Sometimes the choices we make are good ones but since we have guilt it sometimes

takes us longer to see the choices were good. I understand your pain and hurt PJ

but I do believe you did make the right choice. You may now have to look at it

as maybe for once you have just set down a boundry for them, of course they wont

accept it or maybe they see they now have to.

I believe it is now their choice of how they want to deal with you and what you

will aloow them to do.

Its Your life, YOU want to be happy, you are not responsible for making them

happy, they are. YOU have to take care of yourself and I know you know that. YOU

have to let go of hurt and guilt and the past and you dont have to tell me how

hard that is.

When the hurt comes back from the past, I affirm..yes it did hurt, I am now over

it and healthier, I cant change the past so I will now move on.

Since I have lived in ther past most of my life its a real change to be able to

live in the now.....but its so much of a better place..the now...for I am

stronger than I was and am able to deal with things in a healthier way.

Many people can pick up and book and read it and agree thats the perfect way to

think and live.

YOU HAVE TO APPLY IT to your life which is the hardest part for thats when the

emotional feelings stop you from doing many things and its the....many

things...thats whats needed to change your thinking patterns to make you be

stronger.

I think depending on the situation you are in and what support you have has to

do with how and what you change.

Well Im actually going to stop talking but again I got onto a topic when I felt

I had to write about.

Well PJ the recent past has taken me a year to come to terms with and had been

so hard and hurtful and difficult but I now say, they made their choices and I

will accept them.

A year ago my daughter made a chioce to hurt me by taking away my first and only

grandchild because I kicked out her boyfriend because he assulted me. I also

choose not to have anything to do with him because of an incident after that

where he really assulted my sister. My daughter wont accept my choice that I

wont have anything to do with her boyfriend so, she then told me off and said

she didnt want to see me again.... this is how she chose to hurt me. For the

life of me I cant figure out why she would ever do this to me.....We were so

close, they lived with me during her pregnancy, I did everything I could to help

them..plus alot I did to much to help, but I loved them.

WOW..a hard one..but I made my choice and she made hers. I cant change her

choice, so I had to come to terms with knowing I cant change her choice so I

have to accept it.

Its only taken a year and the same question in my head everyday....WHY would she

do this to me...How could she...she even let me name the baby. She knew that

baby would of been a BIG part of my life and she was so proud of that.....

But life goes on..doesnt it...and sometimes we dont have the answers to all our

questions, so I guess we accept the way it is and keep on keeping on...

Hugs

Lin

       Lin,

           Just had to tell you that you and I seem to have so much in common!

 Reading your message (below) refreshed my memory about some things that I

probably needed to re-remember again.  I also came from a similar background --

very toxic and very controlling.  I had very low self-esteem, and would

occasionally stand up for myself, but would mostly fall back to my old ways.  A

few years ago things rather came to a head for me and my parents -- I felt I was

being asked to choose between my parents, and my husband.  Well, I had been

married many years (almost 28 yrs. now), and I decided to cleave to my husband,

and chose him over my parents.  It has caused a deep crevice in all of our lives

-- I haven't seen them in a couple of years, and we rarely talk by phone, and

talk by email occasionally.  But, I felt stronger, healthier, and overall

" healthy &  whole " by giving up that toxic relationship.  One of these days when

I feel much stronger, and where I can deal with them on my

 terms and stand up for myself all of the time, I may try to patch things up

more.  But, the few times I've had some contact with them since this

disagreement, I explained to them that I felt that they wanted me to choose one

or the other -- my parents or my husband -- and I made my choice.  I remind them

that I love my husband, and even though they don't care for him, I do, ...and

I've made my choice!  It has been an incredibly hard thing to do, and I've had

more hurt and pain since December 1999, than I can begin to say.  But, somehow

I'll get over this, and life goes on.

        It sounds like you are well on your way to recovery!!  I commend you for

all of your efforts, and for overcoming your past!  Best of Everything to You!!

 Hugs, PJ

[Guest guest]

Lin,

My goodness! Girl, you and I have got to meet! Seriously!

Everytime you write, it sounds so similar to my situation. Things I haven't

even mentioned!! Are you psychic or something?! Just had to ask. Too many

similarities!

That is the thing. I always wondered why my parents have lied,

have denied things that both me and my hubby know are true, but they deny. This

was one of the hardest things for me to fathom! The lies were part of the

problem when we went our way, and left them to theirs! I guess that what you

are saying is that 'toxic people' do lie, and think they are telling the truth?!

Cause if that is what you are saying, it has answered many questions for me!

And in their minds, they do not think they are lying, they think they are

telling the truth, and that I'm lying. I'm dead serious. Ooh, can't get into

too much of that here. But, I'm just astounded at how similar our backgrounds

are. I'm not speaking with my brothers now either, or should I say they have

taken my parent's side of things. You know, I keep thinking I'm over all of

this. But, it doesn't take too many comments to stir it up again, and then I

realize that I'm still in the " thick of it " .

Actually, I want to thank you for all your stories and comments,

and for how it has stirred things up in me!! I want to deal with this

completely, and then to let go and get on with life. If you ever want to talk

with me personally, write to: mollyann365@... . Because I'd

love to talk to you about this also. And, I'm not sure my whole group wants to

hear all the nitty gritty from me!

You know, don't you find it amazing how different people are

brought into our world's or lives at different times, to help us to deal with

" this " , or " that " . I am just in awe about things like that, and about the

timing of it, etc. Serendipity. Perhaps.

Lin, thanks so very much for sharing all that you have! It has

helped me tremendously! I'm hoping that things will be made right so that you

can see your grandchild soon. I'll pray for you regarding that! Love & Hugs,

PJ

JustaLady wrote:

PJ.....

First I'd like to say I really hope your feeling better soon! So many people

have been sick with the cold and flu and other things with it. Please take good

care of yourself.

I understand what you speak of with having a relationship with parents that are

toxic. The is a book out there called Toxic Parents. I dont know who the author

is but my sister had bought the book and I could only bring myself to read bits

of it. Everytime I started to read it, well, they might of well as just of

printed their names in the book.

It is hard to give them up, even though they have done awful things. Its

terrible hard and painful. I was advised by many not to have anything to do with

them but I didnt think that was right.

One day I decided to have a talk with them, bring up things that I thought they

didnt feel how they hurt me. Well....was I surprised when they came back at me

with lies, so many lies, and even when I had proof of something they still

lied...they actually believed their lies... told me they were the perfect

parents and I had problems. They never acknowledged anything, nothing, not one

thing, they did wrong. My father told me to f-----o........well I left.

I was in shock. We never spoke for awhile. At the time I was in councelling and

I was told that people like that actually believe what they say, its not the

truth but what they say would never put them in a situation ever to make them

look bad or ever wrong,and they end up believing their lies as the truth. The

traits of toxic people.

Well the subject of how I feel about them has never come up and never will. If

there is one think I cant stand ..its lies...I wont put up with it and never

have and never will. To this day I still cant believe what they said to me. In a

small instance, when I was pregnant with the twins I was hospilized during the

7th month on bedrest. They never came to see me once. My ex worked and took care

of our 5 yr old. They never offered to take care of her or even see her or even

have them over to supper to help him.

When I brought this up under doing an act of kindness they said I was lieing.

They came to see me all the time.....HUH!!!! How could they say that...and

believe it.....I was the one lying there alone day after day and that hurt me

alot. Now I knew this was a lie so I persued it...they ended up changed their

story to I wouldnt allow them to see me.

Anyway.....I cant say I dont understand that your parents would ask you to do

that with your husband because its something people like that do. I so

congradulate you on what you did do.

They had NO right to even say it in the first place.

Even though they never spoke to you for 2 yrs (been there) I believe everything

happens for a reason and maybe this reason was to take toxic people out of your

life and let you experience the joy of what its like to live without that in

your life. You felt stronger, and healthier. YOU needed to do that for you!

They will never change..please believe me....unless they want to.

Since I chose to have something to do with my parents I had to draw a line and

set down rules. They didnt like them and still dont. They have tried often to

walk over my line. But since I understand they cant change and never will I had

to set consquences to them, and they dont even know any of this.

It isnt easy to deal with this(is now) for you are used to being the small one

and they feel I guess, the top ones over you.

I rem one time I was speaking to my mother on the phone and she was yelling and

I stopped and said you are yelling...she said I am not..I said yes you are...now

if you chose to continue to speak with me you will stop yelling or I will end

this conversation. She stopped but the talk ended quickly and she never spoke

for awhile. I had to keep this up until they learned I will not put up with

certain things, and it works, and it has to be learned, and its not easy

sometimes.

This also is how to deal with all people in your life who treat you like you

dont want to be treated.

My choice is.....your choice is....I chose not to...(whatever), if you continue

then I will leave or whatever. Then you must do the action. Always done calm

with each knowing thier choices.

I speak of this as this is what I was taught of dealing with toxic people in my

life if I choose to keep them around. It has worked for me.

It isnt easy to stand up to people and it has to be learned but I will tell you

something after it is and your able to do it, I cant tell you how good it feels.

But now I find it hard to do this with my sister, and she is one the the most

toxic persons I know.

Its just taken me longer to deal with her. She isnt speaking to me right now so

thats good, she'll be back. It gives me a rest I think.

BUT she does know I have set up my line and she seems to border on the edge all

the time but rarely crosses it.

Sometimes the choices we make are good ones but since we have guilt it sometimes

takes us longer to see the choices were good. I understand your pain and hurt PJ

but I do believe you did make the right choice. You may now have to look at it

as maybe for once you have just set down a boundry for them, of course they wont

accept it or maybe they see they now have to.

I believe it is now their choice of how they want to deal with you and what you

will aloow them to do.

Its Your life, YOU want to be happy, you are not responsible for making them

happy, they are. YOU have to take care of yourself and I know you know that. YOU

have to let go of hurt and guilt and the past and you dont have to tell me how

hard that is.

When the hurt comes back from the past, I affirm..yes it did hurt, I am now over

it and healthier, I cant change the past so I will now move on.

Since I have lived in ther past most of my life its a real change to be able to

live in the now.....but its so much of a better place..the now...for I am

stronger than I was and am able to deal with things in a healthier way.

Many people can pick up and book and read it and agree thats the perfect way to

think and live.

YOU HAVE TO APPLY IT to your life which is the hardest part for thats when the

emotional feelings stop you from doing many things and its the....many

things...thats whats needed to change your thinking patterns to make you be

stronger.

I think depending on the situation you are in and what support you have has to

do with how and what you change.

Well Im actually going to stop talking but again I got onto a topic when I felt

I had to write about.

Well PJ the recent past has taken me a year to come to terms with and had been

so hard and hurtful and difficult but I now say, they made their choices and I

will accept them.

A year ago my daughter made a chioce to hurt me by taking away my first and only

grandchild because I kicked out her boyfriend because he assulted me. I also

choose not to have anything to do with him because of an incident after that

where he really assulted my sister. My daughter wont accept my choice that I

wont have anything to do with her boyfriend so, she then told me off and said

she didnt want to see me again.... this is how she chose to hurt me. For the

life of me I cant figure out why she would ever do this to me.....We were so

close, they lived with me during her pregnancy, I did everything I could to help

them..plus alot I did to much to help, but I loved them.

WOW..a hard one..but I made my choice and she made hers. I cant change her

choice, so I had to come to terms with knowing I cant change her choice so I

have to accept it.

Its only taken a year and the same question in my head everyday....WHY would she

do this to me...How could she...she even let me name the baby. She knew that

baby would of been a BIG part of my life and she was so proud of that.....

But life goes on..doesnt it...and sometimes we dont have the answers to all our

questions, so I guess we accept the way it is and keep on keeping on...

Hugs

Lin

Lin,

Just had to tell you that you and I seem to have so much in common!

Reading your message (below) refreshed my memory about some things that I

probably needed to re-remember again. I also came from a similar background --

very toxic and very controlling. I had very low self-esteem, and would

occasionally stand up for myself, but would mostly fall back to my old ways. A

few years ago things rather came to a head for me and my parents -- I felt I was

being asked to choose between my parents, and my husband. Well, I had been

married many years (almost 28 yrs. now), and I decided to cleave to my husband,

and chose him over my parents. It has caused a deep crevice in all of our lives

-- I haven't seen them in a couple of years, and we rarely talk by phone, and

talk by email occasionally. But, I felt stronger, healthier, and overall

" healthy & whole " by giving up that toxic relationship. One of these days when

I feel much stronger, and where I can deal with them on my

terms and stand up for myself all of the time, I may try to patch things up

more. But, the few times I've had some contact with them since this

disagreement, I explained to them that I felt that they wanted me to choose one

or the other -- my parents or my husband -- and I made my choice. I remind them

that I love my husband, and even though they don't care for him, I do, ...and

I've made my choice! It has been an incredibly hard thing to do, and I've had

more hurt and pain since December 1999, than I can begin to say. But, somehow

I'll get over this, and life goes on.

It sounds like you are well on your way to recovery!! I commend you for

all of your efforts, and for overcoming your past! Best of Everything to You!!

Hugs, PJ

[Guest guest]

PJ:

I just wanted to comment on something you said. I always believe things happen

for a reason. I have been amazed at the times I have had to deal with things and

out of no where comes a person, at a time when I need them to help me the most.

Just being there for me, their advice, helping, talking..whatever.

" Brought into our lives at differant times, to help us deal with something " ..

Ohhhhhh yes..Its happened to many times to me, for me to believe they are Gods

little miracles. Now that is only my belief. And I believe it strongly. I

believe prayers are answered, sometimes not right away but sometimes through ( a

route) the meeting of another that may be able to help or has went through

something similiar and from there we chose our direction, our healing or seek to

learn how to heal. But I believe this only happens when we are ready to see it.

I also understand now about being ready to make that advancement toward healing.

You cant be in emotional mind while trying to solve a problem. I remember while

being in the hospital I met many people with problems. This one person would

tell her problem and be totally devestated over it. Yet the answer in my mind

was so clear and evident as I believe it was also with others and I had to

question this, and the answer I got was until she can see, until she is ready to

deal with, she will never see or believe that answer which is so evident.

I also remember clearly the day I was given to answer too soon about me and my

parents situation. Being hospilized I had one one councelling 3 days a week for

an hour each time.... He said, the answer is simple....forgive them.....I called

him a nut.

But you know what, I was like that woman who was only thinking in the past with

an emotional mind and I was hurting. I couldnt see anything past that until I

was taught and of course read alot.

I also rem clearly the day I walked into his office and sat down and said....I

have forgiven them.

Now I have to say this.......this reminds me of something I have heard

before......Forgive them Father..for they know not what they do......

There is a quote of meeting people for a reason, a season or a lifetime that

means alot to me, either to help your life or theirs.

Ive met all those people and I believe they have all come to me at times when I

needed them the most, from the small to the large things in life.

Thankyou PJ and I will be in touch with you. Please take care of yourself and I

hope you feel better tonight.

Hugs

Lin

         Lin,

               You know, don't you find it amazing how different people are

brought into our world's or lives at different times, to help us to deal with

" this " , or " that " .  I am just in awe about things like that, and about the

timing of it, etc.  Serendipity.  Perhaps.

               Lin, thanks so very much for sharing all that you have!  It has

helped me tremendously!   I'm hoping that things will be made right so that you

can see your grandchild soon.  I'll pray for you regarding that!  Love & Hugs,

PJ