Guest guest Posted June 8, 2006 Report Posted June 8, 2006 Robin, I homeschool my son. However, here is my opinion in a nutshell, I believe that a blanket statement of " total inclusion " regardless of severity of the disability, and with lack of training and education on both sides would be a " BAD " idea to all parties involved. Inclusion > Hey guys....I am about to open a can of worms but I would love some input > on your views on the " mandatory inclusion " coming in courtesy of NCLB. > Our school district is on a three year plan to total inclusion. One jr > high that I know of so far is going total inclusion this year. I know > alot of posters are in the Metroplex or the Houston area. Have ya'll > started down this road yet? How is going so far? As a parent I feel that > the teachers(general ed) are being forced to do something that they don't > want to do. Plus I'm not seeing any sessions for how to work with special > ed kids set up for general ed. I'm also concerned that parents of NT > kiddos will resent our guys for taking attention from the teacher. Don't > get me wrong, I believe our kids can be mainstreamed and succeed if done > correctly with aides, supports and training on both sides of the fence. > But the experiences we have had so far with our boys leaves alot to be > desired. Any input that ya'll have would be > great. Thanks > > Robin Shinn > > Quote
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2006 Report Posted June 8, 2006 Robin, I homeschool my son. However, here is my opinion in a nutshell, I believe that a blanket statement of " total inclusion " regardless of severity of the disability, and with lack of training and education on both sides would be a " BAD " idea to all parties involved. Inclusion > Hey guys....I am about to open a can of worms but I would love some input > on your views on the " mandatory inclusion " coming in courtesy of NCLB. > Our school district is on a three year plan to total inclusion. One jr > high that I know of so far is going total inclusion this year. I know > alot of posters are in the Metroplex or the Houston area. Have ya'll > started down this road yet? How is going so far? As a parent I feel that > the teachers(general ed) are being forced to do something that they don't > want to do. Plus I'm not seeing any sessions for how to work with special > ed kids set up for general ed. I'm also concerned that parents of NT > kiddos will resent our guys for taking attention from the teacher. Don't > get me wrong, I believe our kids can be mainstreamed and succeed if done > correctly with aides, supports and training on both sides of the fence. > But the experiences we have had so far with our boys leaves alot to be > desired. Any input that ya'll have would be > great. Thanks > > Robin Shinn > > Quote
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2006 Report Posted June 8, 2006 My opinion is that you just can't place children who have disabilities in a mainstream classroom without alot of planning and preparation on the part of the general education teacher. They must be trained on modifications, behavior intervention/ABA, etc., or have a para-professional from the " special education " setting in that classroom to assist. I don't see that happening any time soon because that will require time, money, and effort that is not a priority in the school systems it seems..... I don't think " mandatory " is an appropriate pharasing. The whole purpose of IDEA is to do what is APPROPRIATE and do that with the PROPER modifications and assistance. If it's NOT appropriate and the best for the student to be " mainstreamed " then we shouldn't force that on any student. My son would be sent into a regressive tail-spin if he were " forced " to be in a typical classroom all day. We have done well to get him in his typical peer classroom for 3 hours. But that is pushing it for him sensory-wise. Now - the flip side - is that inclusive settings are GREAT when done with proper planning and preparation for ALL concerned. Typical peer students NEED to have that elbow to elbow experience. THEY are our future - they will be appropriating money to special education, they will be the lawmakers looking out for the rights of kids with disabilities. They NEED that experience of knowing and understaning the value of individuals with disabilities. Every student with a disability being placed in a broom closet or farthest corner of the school building -- is doing NO ONE any justice. A deliberate, planned, integration is what is needed..... Sincerely, Guppy Robin Shinn wrote: Hey guys....I am about to open a can of worms but I would love some input on your views on the " mandatory inclusion " coming in courtesy of NCLB. Our school district is on a three year plan to total inclusion. One jr high that I know of so far is going total inclusion this year. I know alot of posters are in the Metroplex or the Houston area. Have ya'll started down this road yet? How is going so far? As a parent I feel that the teachers(general ed) are being forced to do something that they don't want to do. Plus I'm not seeing any sessions for how to work with special ed kids set up for general ed. I'm also concerned that parents of NT kiddos will resent our guys for taking attention from the teacher. Don't get me wrong, I believe our kids can be mainstreamed and succeed if done correctly with aides, supports and training on both sides of the fence. But the experiences we have had so far with our boys leaves alot to be desired. Any input that ya'll have would be great. Thanks Robin Shinn Quote
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2006 Report Posted June 8, 2006 My opinion is that you just can't place children who have disabilities in a mainstream classroom without alot of planning and preparation on the part of the general education teacher. They must be trained on modifications, behavior intervention/ABA, etc., or have a para-professional from the " special education " setting in that classroom to assist. I don't see that happening any time soon because that will require time, money, and effort that is not a priority in the school systems it seems..... I don't think " mandatory " is an appropriate pharasing. The whole purpose of IDEA is to do what is APPROPRIATE and do that with the PROPER modifications and assistance. If it's NOT appropriate and the best for the student to be " mainstreamed " then we shouldn't force that on any student. My son would be sent into a regressive tail-spin if he were " forced " to be in a typical classroom all day. We have done well to get him in his typical peer classroom for 3 hours. But that is pushing it for him sensory-wise. Now - the flip side - is that inclusive settings are GREAT when done with proper planning and preparation for ALL concerned. Typical peer students NEED to have that elbow to elbow experience. THEY are our future - they will be appropriating money to special education, they will be the lawmakers looking out for the rights of kids with disabilities. They NEED that experience of knowing and understaning the value of individuals with disabilities. Every student with a disability being placed in a broom closet or farthest corner of the school building -- is doing NO ONE any justice. A deliberate, planned, integration is what is needed..... Sincerely, Guppy Robin Shinn wrote: Hey guys....I am about to open a can of worms but I would love some input on your views on the " mandatory inclusion " coming in courtesy of NCLB. Our school district is on a three year plan to total inclusion. One jr high that I know of so far is going total inclusion this year. I know alot of posters are in the Metroplex or the Houston area. Have ya'll started down this road yet? How is going so far? As a parent I feel that the teachers(general ed) are being forced to do something that they don't want to do. Plus I'm not seeing any sessions for how to work with special ed kids set up for general ed. I'm also concerned that parents of NT kiddos will resent our guys for taking attention from the teacher. Don't get me wrong, I believe our kids can be mainstreamed and succeed if done correctly with aides, supports and training on both sides of the fence. But the experiences we have had so far with our boys leaves alot to be desired. Any input that ya'll have would be great. Thanks Robin Shinn Quote
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2006 Report Posted June 8, 2006 Well, if inclusion meant co-teaching daily with special ed teacher who was able to do in class pull outs for ALL the kids in the class who need it (because every class has some borderline LD kids who are usually just barely making it and would really benefit from this kind of extra attention). . . and trained aides and materials support and modified materials, and trained general education teachers, then I'm all over that for a big chunk of kids (please note, NOT all kids, there are those who would be overwhelmed due to sensory issues). The majority of places who " do inclusion " basically dump the kid in the corner while the class continues on it's regular activities--with no modifications of activities, no extra training for the general ed teacher, and NO extra support for the general ed teacher (who are overworked as it is!!!!) Have you ever tried to keep a lid on 25 eight years olds all at different levels???? It's a job, lemme tell you. Dropping off a kid and expecting unsupervised peers to be her teacher, is not inclusion. Putting the kid in the wheelchair in the corner while everyone plays a game at pe is not inclusion. Letting the kid in the spectrum play his own basketball game while everyone else it doing a team game is NOT inclusion. The ONLY way a massive inclusion will work is to lower class sizes at the same time. No more than 15 in a class for up to 3rd grade, and 20 in a class for the rest of the school life. THAT is a lot more manageable. As it is most general ed teachers are way overworked, don't have the materials support, have to prepare everything themselves, etc. I think it's a BIG mistake to put them into an even more impossible situation unprepared. Without a supported co-teaching environment and a principal who is eagerly leading the way with vision and support, it won't work. I've seen two wonderful films on inlcusion (one is available through Donna Fruge, call Family to Family to find her-- I would highly recommend that you ask her to come show her film to the principal and other staff during the summer ). Both films detailed how TERRIFIED the general ed teachers were of having to teach in this environment. These same terrified teachers turned into the biggest champions of inclusion afterward because they saw the wonderful things that happen to ALL the students when done correctly. However, inclusion done well is expensive and a lot of work!! Inclusion will also put the spotlight on any bad teacher in a New York second, and there are some bad teachers out there who are stubbornly putting in their years til they get their pension. From what you're describing, it sounds like the district is creating a train-wreck of a confrontation of the NT kids with the special needs kids for no reason other than ignorance. NCLB is NOT about inclusion. NCLB is about maximizing each child's performance academically. Inclusion is about being A PART of the school environment in the least restrictive way. If inclusion is the goal to maximize each child's performance, what have all those special ed teachers been doing all this time?????? (I'm sure We both know the answer to that, but sometimes you've got to ask the obvious question.) Or has special ed been the place where the special needs kids get dumped and ignored academically?? Junior high is also really tough because of the kid gangs anyway. What is going to be done about the 'mean girls'? What is going to be done about the 'jock cliques'? Is the counselor planning to set up circles of friends, lunch buddies,etc.??? Hmmmmm, I wonder who their consultants are who are doing this? Do they even have a consultant guiding them through this process or did the special ed director go to a one day seminar on inclusion??? What kind of sensitivity training are they giving to the typical kids? also will parents have the opportunity to introduce their child to the class? Sounds like you have a lot of questions to ask. Sounds like you needs to go to the PTA and build a coalition of parents both in special ed and out. Robin, sounds like you've got your work cut out for you for the next few years. Inclusion Hey guys....I am about to open a can of worms but I would love some input on your views on the " mandatory inclusion " coming in courtesy of NCLB. Our school district is on a three year plan to total inclusion. One jr high that I know of so far is going total inclusion this year. I know alot of posters are in the Metroplex or the Houston area. Have ya'll started down this road yet? How is going so far? As a parent I feel that the teachers(general ed) are being forced to do something that they don't want to do. Plus I'm not seeing any sessions for how to work with special ed kids set up for general ed. I'm also concerned that parents of NT kiddos will resent our guys for taking attention from the teacher. Don't get me wrong, I believe our kids can be mainstreamed and succeed if done correctly with aides, supports and training on both sides of the fence. But the experiences we have had so far with our boys leaves alot to be desired. Any input that ya'll have would be great. Thanks Robin Shinn Quote
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2006 Report Posted June 8, 2006 Well, if inclusion meant co-teaching daily with special ed teacher who was able to do in class pull outs for ALL the kids in the class who need it (because every class has some borderline LD kids who are usually just barely making it and would really benefit from this kind of extra attention). . . and trained aides and materials support and modified materials, and trained general education teachers, then I'm all over that for a big chunk of kids (please note, NOT all kids, there are those who would be overwhelmed due to sensory issues). The majority of places who " do inclusion " basically dump the kid in the corner while the class continues on it's regular activities--with no modifications of activities, no extra training for the general ed teacher, and NO extra support for the general ed teacher (who are overworked as it is!!!!) Have you ever tried to keep a lid on 25 eight years olds all at different levels???? It's a job, lemme tell you. Dropping off a kid and expecting unsupervised peers to be her teacher, is not inclusion. Putting the kid in the wheelchair in the corner while everyone plays a game at pe is not inclusion. Letting the kid in the spectrum play his own basketball game while everyone else it doing a team game is NOT inclusion. The ONLY way a massive inclusion will work is to lower class sizes at the same time. No more than 15 in a class for up to 3rd grade, and 20 in a class for the rest of the school life. THAT is a lot more manageable. As it is most general ed teachers are way overworked, don't have the materials support, have to prepare everything themselves, etc. I think it's a BIG mistake to put them into an even more impossible situation unprepared. Without a supported co-teaching environment and a principal who is eagerly leading the way with vision and support, it won't work. I've seen two wonderful films on inlcusion (one is available through Donna Fruge, call Family to Family to find her-- I would highly recommend that you ask her to come show her film to the principal and other staff during the summer ). Both films detailed how TERRIFIED the general ed teachers were of having to teach in this environment. These same terrified teachers turned into the biggest champions of inclusion afterward because they saw the wonderful things that happen to ALL the students when done correctly. However, inclusion done well is expensive and a lot of work!! Inclusion will also put the spotlight on any bad teacher in a New York second, and there are some bad teachers out there who are stubbornly putting in their years til they get their pension. From what you're describing, it sounds like the district is creating a train-wreck of a confrontation of the NT kids with the special needs kids for no reason other than ignorance. NCLB is NOT about inclusion. NCLB is about maximizing each child's performance academically. Inclusion is about being A PART of the school environment in the least restrictive way. If inclusion is the goal to maximize each child's performance, what have all those special ed teachers been doing all this time?????? (I'm sure We both know the answer to that, but sometimes you've got to ask the obvious question.) Or has special ed been the place where the special needs kids get dumped and ignored academically?? Junior high is also really tough because of the kid gangs anyway. What is going to be done about the 'mean girls'? What is going to be done about the 'jock cliques'? Is the counselor planning to set up circles of friends, lunch buddies,etc.??? Hmmmmm, I wonder who their consultants are who are doing this? Do they even have a consultant guiding them through this process or did the special ed director go to a one day seminar on inclusion??? What kind of sensitivity training are they giving to the typical kids? also will parents have the opportunity to introduce their child to the class? Sounds like you have a lot of questions to ask. Sounds like you needs to go to the PTA and build a coalition of parents both in special ed and out. Robin, sounds like you've got your work cut out for you for the next few years. Inclusion Hey guys....I am about to open a can of worms but I would love some input on your views on the " mandatory inclusion " coming in courtesy of NCLB. Our school district is on a three year plan to total inclusion. One jr high that I know of so far is going total inclusion this year. I know alot of posters are in the Metroplex or the Houston area. Have ya'll started down this road yet? How is going so far? As a parent I feel that the teachers(general ed) are being forced to do something that they don't want to do. Plus I'm not seeing any sessions for how to work with special ed kids set up for general ed. I'm also concerned that parents of NT kiddos will resent our guys for taking attention from the teacher. Don't get me wrong, I believe our kids can be mainstreamed and succeed if done correctly with aides, supports and training on both sides of the fence. But the experiences we have had so far with our boys leaves alot to be desired. Any input that ya'll have would be great. Thanks Robin Shinn Quote
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2006 Report Posted June 9, 2006 I absolutely could not agree more with Candis. My husband and myself are the parent's to 6 children. 5 of our children are autistic. All of them are inclusioned. I had to fight very hard for this. Our oldest just finished middle school with 3 full years of inclusion. Even the " mean " kids took care of her. She was respected for her knowledge. They knew how to calm her down when she would stem and scream. She also has a full-time attendant with her and has since Kindergarten. Our other 3 older kids are less severe and do not need attendant supervision. Our youngest goes into Kinder next year with an attendant. We are always complemented for our children's behaviors in public and at school. They still have issues, but I believe they are more able to handle social situations better because of inclusion. All of our children are A and B honor roll student's. They have regular class work and two have modified testing. Caitlin gets oral tests and gets smaller test groups. Thanks for letting me give my 2 cents also. Jeanette Quote
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2006 Report Posted June 9, 2006 I absolutely could not agree more with Candis. My husband and myself are the parent's to 6 children. 5 of our children are autistic. All of them are inclusioned. I had to fight very hard for this. Our oldest just finished middle school with 3 full years of inclusion. Even the " mean " kids took care of her. She was respected for her knowledge. They knew how to calm her down when she would stem and scream. She also has a full-time attendant with her and has since Kindergarten. Our other 3 older kids are less severe and do not need attendant supervision. Our youngest goes into Kinder next year with an attendant. We are always complemented for our children's behaviors in public and at school. They still have issues, but I believe they are more able to handle social situations better because of inclusion. All of our children are A and B honor roll student's. They have regular class work and two have modified testing. Caitlin gets oral tests and gets smaller test groups. Thanks for letting me give my 2 cents also. Jeanette Quote
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2006 Report Posted June 9, 2006 -You asked for my opinion, so your going to get it;) INclusion should be mandatory...now let me explain what I mean; first the problems with inclusion: 1) lack of understanding a purpose 2) kids are means and so are adults Reasons we need it: 1) for the kids who are healthy, they must learn how to be tolerant and cannot learn that being among the same population they represent.- There is no balance otherwise. 2) Segregation is not good for anyone- We as a country have been there MANY times and it never produced the best or brightest of anyone whether- healthy, disabled, or ethnically different. 3) INclusion gives our children the opportunity to pick up more than their ABC's over and over again for 15 years.- That's the truth-we all know it. Life Skills is glorified babysitting. It's too hard to " teach " with meaning and progression when ALL of your students are are various academic, emotional, and physcially developmental levels. 4) WE as a society have not learned how to " teach " the majority- which are those who are grossly underrepresented- those with disabilties and learning differences. My child is accepted at home and activities, at church and among friends despite her abilities to interact and take part in certain activities, she needs to be ALLOWED as all citizens of the United Stated of America (and even illegal immigrants) are ALLOWED to be and that is educated in the public system with all the same rights and priviledges given their best and brightest students. Overall, unlike the same arguement that surfaces continually INclusion is NOT just about whether your child can do 8th grade math like everyone else, it's about giving them the opportunity to be among typcial kids so that they learn in every facet available to typcial kids. This should never be a discussion. Candis -- In Texas-Autism-Advocacy , Robin Shinn wrote: > > Hey guys....I am about to open a can of worms but I would love some input on your views on the " mandatory inclusion " coming in courtesy of NCLB. Our school district is on a three year plan to total inclusion. One jr high that I know of so far is going total inclusion this year. I know alot of posters are in the Metroplex or the Houston area. Have ya'll started down this road yet? How is going so far? As a parent I feel that the teachers(general ed) are being forced to do something that they don't want to do. Plus I'm not seeing any sessions for how to work with special ed kids set up for general ed. I'm also concerned that parents of NT kiddos will resent our guys for taking attention from the teacher. Don't get me wrong, I believe our kids can be mainstreamed and succeed if done correctly with aides, supports and training on both sides of the fence. But the experiences we have had so far with our boys leaves alot to be desired. Any input that ya'll have would be > great. Thanks > > Robin Shinn > > Quote
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2006 Report Posted June 9, 2006 The only problem I see with inclusion, is that the teachers aren't qualified enough. Teachers are qualified to teach regular ed. In 4 years of college, they get one semester of special needs, and it's broad based. You would have to teach every teacher special ed in order to make inclusion work the way it should for our kids. JMO, Anne -- Re: Inclusion -You asked for my opinion, so your going to get it;) INclusion should be mandatory...now let me explain what I mean; first the problems with inclusion: 1) lack of understanding a purpose 2) kids are means and so are adults Reasons we need it: 1) for the kids who are healthy, they must learn how to be tolerant and cannot learn that being among the same population they represent.- There is no balance otherwise. 2) Segregation is not good for anyone- We as a country have been there MANY times and it never produced the best or brightest of anyone whether- healthy, disabled, or ethnically different. 3) INclusion gives our children the opportunity to pick up more than their ABC's over and over again for 15 years.- That's the truth-we all know it. Life Skills is glorified babysitting. It's too hard to " teach " with meaning and progression when ALL of your students are are various academic, emotional, and physcially developmental levels. 4) WE as a society have not learned how to " teach " the majority- which are those who are grossly underrepresented- those with disabilties and learning differences. My child is accepted at home and activities, at church and among friends despite her abilities to interact and take part in certain activities, she needs to be ALLOWED as all citizens of the United Stated of America (and even illegal immigrants) are ALLOWED to be and that is educated in the public system with all the same rights and priviledges given their best and brightest students. Overall, unlike the same arguement that surfaces continually INclusion is NOT just about whether your child can do 8th grade math like everyone else, it's about giving them the opportunity to be among typcial kids so that they learn in every facet available to typcial kids. This should never be a discussion. Candis -- In Texas-Autism-Advocacy , Robin Shinn wrote: > > Hey guys....I am about to open a can of worms but I would love some input on your views on the " mandatory inclusion " coming in courtesy of NCLB. Our school district is on a three year plan to total inclusion. One jr high that I know of so far is going total inclusion this year. I know alot of posters are in the Metroplex or the Houston area. Have ya'll started down this road yet? How is going so far? As a parent I feel that the teachers(general ed) are being forced to do something that they don't want to do. Plus I'm not seeing any sessions for how to work with special ed kids set up for general ed. I'm also concerned that parents of NT kiddos will resent our guys for taking attention from the teacher. Don't get me wrong, I believe our kids can be mainstreamed and succeed if done correctly with aides, supports and training on both sides of the fence. But the experiences we have had so far with our boys leaves alot to be desired. Any input that ya'll have would be > great. Thanks > > Robin Shinn > > Quote
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2006 Report Posted June 9, 2006 The only problem I see with inclusion, is that the teachers aren't qualified enough. Teachers are qualified to teach regular ed. In 4 years of college, they get one semester of special needs, and it's broad based. You would have to teach every teacher special ed in order to make inclusion work the way it should for our kids. JMO, Anne -- Re: Inclusion -You asked for my opinion, so your going to get it;) INclusion should be mandatory...now let me explain what I mean; first the problems with inclusion: 1) lack of understanding a purpose 2) kids are means and so are adults Reasons we need it: 1) for the kids who are healthy, they must learn how to be tolerant and cannot learn that being among the same population they represent.- There is no balance otherwise. 2) Segregation is not good for anyone- We as a country have been there MANY times and it never produced the best or brightest of anyone whether- healthy, disabled, or ethnically different. 3) INclusion gives our children the opportunity to pick up more than their ABC's over and over again for 15 years.- That's the truth-we all know it. Life Skills is glorified babysitting. It's too hard to " teach " with meaning and progression when ALL of your students are are various academic, emotional, and physcially developmental levels. 4) WE as a society have not learned how to " teach " the majority- which are those who are grossly underrepresented- those with disabilties and learning differences. My child is accepted at home and activities, at church and among friends despite her abilities to interact and take part in certain activities, she needs to be ALLOWED as all citizens of the United Stated of America (and even illegal immigrants) are ALLOWED to be and that is educated in the public system with all the same rights and priviledges given their best and brightest students. Overall, unlike the same arguement that surfaces continually INclusion is NOT just about whether your child can do 8th grade math like everyone else, it's about giving them the opportunity to be among typcial kids so that they learn in every facet available to typcial kids. This should never be a discussion. Candis -- In Texas-Autism-Advocacy , Robin Shinn wrote: > > Hey guys....I am about to open a can of worms but I would love some input on your views on the " mandatory inclusion " coming in courtesy of NCLB. Our school district is on a three year plan to total inclusion. One jr high that I know of so far is going total inclusion this year. I know alot of posters are in the Metroplex or the Houston area. Have ya'll started down this road yet? How is going so far? As a parent I feel that the teachers(general ed) are being forced to do something that they don't want to do. Plus I'm not seeing any sessions for how to work with special ed kids set up for general ed. I'm also concerned that parents of NT kiddos will resent our guys for taking attention from the teacher. Don't get me wrong, I believe our kids can be mainstreamed and succeed if done correctly with aides, supports and training on both sides of the fence. But the experiences we have had so far with our boys leaves alot to be desired. Any input that ya'll have would be > great. Thanks > > Robin Shinn > > Quote
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2006 Report Posted June 9, 2006 I think that was a very well stated opinion. I become concerned when the philosophy of " inclusionism, " becomes a greater focus then what is best or appropriate to meet the current needs of the individual child. In the same vein, total " inclusionism, " from the ISD's (or state schools) position appears to be more of a smoke screen to cut costs and under serve the child, or adult, than a method of providing a FAPE under IDEA. Trends- OT/Speech therapy becomes " consultation; " behavioral therapy becomes behavioral " consultation; " services when provided are inadequate in time committed (ST 30 minutes 2x monthly); elimination of support through content mastery or special education therapists; lack of training and in-service for professionals and paraprofessionals for special needs; reduction/elimination of behavior interventions and assessment; difficulty obtaining augmentative communication devices and staff trained to use, teach, and coordinate their use; attempts to minimize testing and evaluation; etc. Even if one can obtain a reasonably adequate IEP- what is being done in the classroom is another story. Even with the best intentions the higher the student ratio the more difficult it is to reasonably implement individualized modifications and interventions-unfortunately in my experience the IEP is just too often dropped. Is the future a reduction of special education teachers to replace with lower cost paraprofessionals? Beyond the concerns that total inclusion can result in increased risks for inadequate IEPs ( " we can't do this " ), inadequate implementation (too many children, not enough trained people) and consequently the inadequate education, the concern is that the child is going to be harmed through negative treatment by the environment (staff, peers, even parents of classmates) or by the bureaucracy inappropriately " addressing " a child's behavior through disciplinary methods (ISS, sent home, police). Inclusion as a goal is wonderful and ultimately in the best interests for the child and society. It requires an understanding of the child as well as proper training, resources, planning and especially ongoing program evaluation. I certainly support parents that have struggled to provide the level of inclusion appropriate for their child. Another opinion. Pete Re: Inclusion My opinion is that you just can't place children who have disabilities in a mainstream classroom without alot of planning and preparation on the part of the general education teacher. They must be trained on modifications, behavior intervention/ABA, etc., or have a para-professional from the " special education " setting in that classroom to assist. I don't see that happening any time soon because that will require time, money, and effort that is not a priority in the school systems it seems..... I don't think " mandatory " is an appropriate pharasing. The whole purpose of IDEA is to do what is APPROPRIATE and do that with the PROPER modifications and assistance. If it's NOT appropriate and the best for the student to be " mainstreamed " then we shouldn't force that on any student. My son would be sent into a regressive tail-spin if he were " forced " to be in a typical classroom all day. We have done well to get him in his typical peer classroom for 3 hours. But that is pushing it for him sensory-wise. Now - the flip side - is that inclusive settings are GREAT when done with proper planning and preparation for ALL concerned. Typical peer students NEED to have that elbow to elbow experience. THEY are our future - they will be appropriating money to special education, they will be the lawmakers looking out for the rights of kids with disabilities. They NEED that experience of knowing and understaning the value of individuals with disabilities. Every student with a disability being placed in a broom closet or farthest corner of the school building -- is doing NO ONE any justice. A deliberate, planned, integration is what is needed..... Sincerely, Guppy Robin Shinn wrote: Hey guys....I am about to open a can of worms but I would love some input on your views on the " mandatory inclusion " coming in courtesy of NCLB. Our school district is on a three year plan to total inclusion. One jr high that I know of so far is going total inclusion this year. I know alot of posters are in the Metroplex or the Houston area. Have ya'll started down this road yet? How is going so far? As a parent I feel that the teachers(general ed) are being forced to do something that they don't want to do. Plus I'm not seeing any sessions for how to work with special ed kids set up for general ed. I'm also concerned that parents of NT kiddos will resent our guys for taking attention from the teacher. Don't get me wrong, I believe our kids can be mainstreamed and succeed if done correctly with aides, supports and training on both sides of the fence. But the experiences we have had so far with our boys leaves alot to be desired. Any input that ya'll have would be great. Thanks Robin Shinn Quote
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2006 Report Posted June 9, 2006 I think that was a very well stated opinion. I become concerned when the philosophy of " inclusionism, " becomes a greater focus then what is best or appropriate to meet the current needs of the individual child. In the same vein, total " inclusionism, " from the ISD's (or state schools) position appears to be more of a smoke screen to cut costs and under serve the child, or adult, than a method of providing a FAPE under IDEA. Trends- OT/Speech therapy becomes " consultation; " behavioral therapy becomes behavioral " consultation; " services when provided are inadequate in time committed (ST 30 minutes 2x monthly); elimination of support through content mastery or special education therapists; lack of training and in-service for professionals and paraprofessionals for special needs; reduction/elimination of behavior interventions and assessment; difficulty obtaining augmentative communication devices and staff trained to use, teach, and coordinate their use; attempts to minimize testing and evaluation; etc. Even if one can obtain a reasonably adequate IEP- what is being done in the classroom is another story. Even with the best intentions the higher the student ratio the more difficult it is to reasonably implement individualized modifications and interventions-unfortunately in my experience the IEP is just too often dropped. Is the future a reduction of special education teachers to replace with lower cost paraprofessionals? Beyond the concerns that total inclusion can result in increased risks for inadequate IEPs ( " we can't do this " ), inadequate implementation (too many children, not enough trained people) and consequently the inadequate education, the concern is that the child is going to be harmed through negative treatment by the environment (staff, peers, even parents of classmates) or by the bureaucracy inappropriately " addressing " a child's behavior through disciplinary methods (ISS, sent home, police). Inclusion as a goal is wonderful and ultimately in the best interests for the child and society. It requires an understanding of the child as well as proper training, resources, planning and especially ongoing program evaluation. I certainly support parents that have struggled to provide the level of inclusion appropriate for their child. Another opinion. Pete Re: Inclusion My opinion is that you just can't place children who have disabilities in a mainstream classroom without alot of planning and preparation on the part of the general education teacher. They must be trained on modifications, behavior intervention/ABA, etc., or have a para-professional from the " special education " setting in that classroom to assist. I don't see that happening any time soon because that will require time, money, and effort that is not a priority in the school systems it seems..... I don't think " mandatory " is an appropriate pharasing. The whole purpose of IDEA is to do what is APPROPRIATE and do that with the PROPER modifications and assistance. If it's NOT appropriate and the best for the student to be " mainstreamed " then we shouldn't force that on any student. My son would be sent into a regressive tail-spin if he were " forced " to be in a typical classroom all day. We have done well to get him in his typical peer classroom for 3 hours. But that is pushing it for him sensory-wise. Now - the flip side - is that inclusive settings are GREAT when done with proper planning and preparation for ALL concerned. Typical peer students NEED to have that elbow to elbow experience. THEY are our future - they will be appropriating money to special education, they will be the lawmakers looking out for the rights of kids with disabilities. They NEED that experience of knowing and understaning the value of individuals with disabilities. Every student with a disability being placed in a broom closet or farthest corner of the school building -- is doing NO ONE any justice. A deliberate, planned, integration is what is needed..... Sincerely, Guppy Robin Shinn wrote: Hey guys....I am about to open a can of worms but I would love some input on your views on the " mandatory inclusion " coming in courtesy of NCLB. Our school district is on a three year plan to total inclusion. One jr high that I know of so far is going total inclusion this year. I know alot of posters are in the Metroplex or the Houston area. Have ya'll started down this road yet? How is going so far? As a parent I feel that the teachers(general ed) are being forced to do something that they don't want to do. Plus I'm not seeing any sessions for how to work with special ed kids set up for general ed. I'm also concerned that parents of NT kiddos will resent our guys for taking attention from the teacher. Don't get me wrong, I believe our kids can be mainstreamed and succeed if done correctly with aides, supports and training on both sides of the fence. But the experiences we have had so far with our boys leaves alot to be desired. Any input that ya'll have would be great. Thanks Robin Shinn Quote
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2006 Report Posted June 9, 2006 Furthermore, every teacher has to be informed and trained in every single disability..How is that feasible. We don't even have special ed teachers that are so qualified. At one of the Dr. Sundburgs workshops, he was talking about teachers as he has a degree in education, and teachers are taught about each disability and what it is but they are not taught how to teach the children. I hope this helps in someway. That is why the teachers are at a loss when it comes to teaching or working with the child and only see the label. Quote
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2006 Report Posted June 9, 2006 Furthermore, every teacher has to be informed and trained in every single disability..How is that feasible. We don't even have special ed teachers that are so qualified. At one of the Dr. Sundburgs workshops, he was talking about teachers as he has a degree in education, and teachers are taught about each disability and what it is but they are not taught how to teach the children. I hope this helps in someway. That is why the teachers are at a loss when it comes to teaching or working with the child and only see the label. Quote
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2006 Report Posted June 10, 2006 I think you would like the motto that I had put on our teacher's shirts at school .... " STUDENTS THAT LEARN TOGETHER, LEARN TO LIVE TOGETHER " It is parents like you that have such a strong opinion and personal experience with inclusion that all teachers need to hear from. Every year teachers are required to take staff development. If I were you, I would get a group of parents like yourself together and present a class on inclusion to teachers. You could contact the special education directors in surronding districts and let them know you are available. In almost all staff developments we go to we hear from the " experts " . I think it would be more helpful to teachers to hear from the real experts, the parents. > > > > Hey guys....I am about to open a can of worms but I would love > some input on your views on the " mandatory inclusion " coming in > courtesy of NCLB. Our school district is on a three year plan to > total inclusion. One jr high that I know of so far is going total > inclusion this year. I know alot of posters are in the Metroplex or > the Houston area. Have ya'll started down this road yet? How is > going so far? As a parent I feel that the teachers(general ed) are > being forced to do something that they don't want to do. Plus I'm > not seeing any sessions for how to work with special ed kids set up > for general ed. I'm also concerned that parents of NT kiddos will > resent our guys for taking attention from the teacher. Don't get me > wrong, I believe our kids can be mainstreamed and succeed if done > correctly with aides, supports and training on both sides of the > fence. But the experiences we have had so far with our boys leaves > alot to be desired. Any input that ya'll have would be > > great. Thanks > > > > Robin Shinn > > > > Quote
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