Re: Re: Listening to Madness

[Guest guest]

1. In light of the info mimim provided here, 'listening to madness' may make more sense.The article below is scary in the sense that so many parents are unwilling or unable to challenge the doctor's 'wisdom' in prescribing meds for behaviour, or maybe even to investigate alternatives.2. It's ironic that so many parents are anti-vaccine! (discussed in previous posts)Possibly it is because there is still a stigma to differences, mental illnesses even if mild, etc but apparently less stigma to haveing an unvaccinated child who may spread disease.3. society 'needs' conformity in schools and workplaces.(said with both sarcasm and slight agreement)a) when I was a warehouse supervisor, I hired eccentrics, people who told me they had a mental illness, a homeless person, people who spoke almost no english, peopl on

government $ assistance for mental or physical reasons (they are allowed to earn a certain amount) etc etc.My criteria was that they presented documentation identifying their legal status to work in Canada, their SIN, and that they were willing to try and learn the work. (there is a probationary period and standards to be maintained)Most of these people did OK, some excelled; unfortunatly 2 of them became unstable and unreliable, thus were terminted (after I left that position) Any job needs reliable workers, even one as informal as the warehouse.c) a freind who works in retail said she could not hire some of the eccentrics whom I hired, as her business deals with the public, and her customers would not accept a clerk who happily talked to themselves etc.d) some jobs require more conformity than others, not all of us can run our own business, thus we need to adapt to some

extent. e)The previous supervisor in the warehouse, (she trained me), believed that there was a suitable job for everyone, and that they nneded to keep trying until they find it.On this encouraging note, I will say goodbye for now.(will hav more to 'say' later.renaissanzelady"My cat Rusty is a servant of the Living God."(adapted from a poem by Smart)Subject: Re: Listening to MadnessTo:

FAMSecretSociety Received: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 9:34 AM

>

> http://www.newsweek .com/id/195694

>

> Listening to Madness

>

> Why some mentally ill patients are rejecting their medication and making the case for 'mad pride.'

>

along the same lines:

The Wholesale Sedation of America's Youth

By M. Weiss, Skeptical Inquirer. is.gd/yXAW

In the winter of 2000, the Journal of the American Medical Association published the results of a study indicating that 200,000 two- to four-year-olds had been prescribed Ritalin for an "attention disorder" from 1991 to 1995. Judging by the response, the image of hundreds of thousands of mothers grinding up stimulants to put into the sippy cups of their preschoolers was apparently not a pretty one.

Most national magazines and newspapers covered the story; some even expressed dismay or outrage at this exacerbation of what already seemed like a juggernaut of hyper-medicalizing childhood. The public reaction, however, was tame; the medical community, after a moment's pause, continued unfazed. Today, the total toddler count is well past one million, and influential psychiatrists have insisted that mental health prescriptions are appropriate for children as young as twelve months. For the pharmaceutical companies, this is progress.

In 1995, 2,357,833 children were diagnosed with ADHD (Woodwell 1997) -- twice the number diagnosed in 1990. By 1999, 3.4 percent of all American children had received a stimulant prescription for an attention disorder. Today, that number is closer to ten percent. Stimulants aren't the only drugs being given out like candy to our children. A variety of other psychotropics like antidepressants, antipsychotics, and sedatives are finding their way into babies' medicine cabinets in large numbers. In fact, the worldwide market for these drugs is growing at a rate of ten percent a year, $20.7 billion in sales of antipsychotics alone (for 2007, IMSHealth 2008).

While the sheer volume of psychotropics being prescribed for children might, in and of itself, produce alarm, there has not been a substantial backlash against drug use in large part because of the widespread perception that "medically authorized" drugs must be safe. Yet, there is considerable evidence that psychoactive drugs do not take second place to other controlled pharmaceuticals in carrying grave and substantial risks. All classes of psychoactive drugs are associated with patient deaths, and each produces serious side effects, some of which are life-threatening.

In 2005, researchers analyzed data from 250,000 patients in the Netherlands and concluded that "we can be reasonably sure that antipsychotics are associated in something like a threefold increase in sudden cardiac death, and perhaps that older antipsychotics may be worse" (Straus et al. 2004). In 2007, the FDA chose to beef up its black box warning (reserved for substances that represent the most serious danger to the public) against antidepressants concluding, "the trend across age groups toward an association between antidepressants and suicidality . . . was convincing, particularly when superimposed on earlier analyses of data on adolescents from randomized, controlled trials" (Friedman and Leon 2007). Antidepressants have been banned for use with children in the UK since 2003. According to a confidential FDA report, prolonged administration of amphetamines (the standard treatment for ADD and ADHD) "may lead to drug dependence and must be

avoided." They further reported that "misuse of amphetamine may cause sudden death and serious cardiovascular adverse events" (Food and Drug Administration 2005). The risk of fatal toxicity from lithium carbonate, a not uncommon treatment for bipolar disorder, has been well documented since the 1950s. Incidents of fatal seizures from sedative-hypnotics, especially when mixed with alcohol, have been recorded since the 1920s.

Psychotropics carry nonfatal risks as well. Physical dependence and severe withdrawal symptoms are associated with virtually all psychoactive drugs. Psychological addiction is axiomatic. Concomitant side effects range from unpleasant to devastating, including: insulin resistance, narcolepsy, tardive dyskenisia (a movement disorder affecting 15–20 percent of antipsychotic patients where there are uncontrolled facial movements and sometimes jerking or twisting movements of other body parts), agranulocytosis (a reduction in white blood cells, which is life threatening) , accelerated appetite, vomiting, allergic reactions, uncontrolled blinking, slurred speech, diabetes, balance irregularities, irregular heartbeat, chest pain, sleep disorders, fever, and severe headaches. The attempt to control these side effects has resulted in many children taking as many as eight additional drugs every day, but in many cases, this has only compounded the problem.

Each "helper" drug produces unwanted side effects of its own.

The child drug market has also spawned a vigorous black market in high schools and colleges, particularly for stimulants. Students have learned to fake the symptoms of ADD in order to obtain amphetamine prescriptions that are subsequently sold to fellow students. Such "shopping" for prescription drugs has even spawned a new verb. The practice is commonly called "pharming." A 2005 report from the Partnership for a Drug Free America, based on a survey of more than 7,300 teenagers, found one in ten teenagers, or 2.3 million young people, had tried prescription stimulants without a doctor's order, and 29 percent of those surveyed said they had close friends who have abused prescription stimulants.

In a larger sense, the whole undertaking has had the disturbing effect of making drug use an accepted part of childhood. Few cultures anywhere on earth and anytime in the past have been so willing to provide stimulants and sedative-hypnotics to their offspring, especially at such tender ages. An entire generation of young people has been brought up to believe that drug-seeking behavior is both rational and respectable and that most psychological problems have a pharmacological solution. With the ubiquity of psychotropics, children now have the means, opportunity, example, and encouragement to develop a lifelong habit of self-medicating.

Common population estimates include at least eight million children, ages two to eighteen, receiving prescriptions for ADD, ADHD, bipolar disorder, autism, simple depression, schizophrenia, and the dozens of other disorders now included in psychiatric classification manuals. Yet sixty years ago, it was virtually impossible for a child to be considered mentally ill. The first diagnostic manual published by American psychiatrists in 1952, DSM-I, included

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wrote, excerpted

With a history of mental illness in the family, it is quite possible that if he was actually the more grounded person among them, him being in that position can have the unfortunate effect of making him moody and emotional, and sometimes violent.

my response; for many years I was emotionally bound to my mom,

(a counsellor called it emotional incest, as mom treated me as a confidant, while i was groing up)

it was not till I was in my 30's that I viewed things more objectively, realized that my mom would provoke my dad, even when he nicley said 'i'm tired after work, let me read the newspaper' she would keep bugging him till he 'exploded'

My dad and his sister woud have heated arguments and not speak for years, her bi-polar condition may have been a factor.

wrote excerpted:

A person looking at my relationship with her might think it rude, or disrespectful, but they did not see the hypocrisy of her not making the effort to listen to me while striving to appear normal to people outside of the family. If she can work so hard to listen to and pay attention to people that do not matter, then why can't she work that hard for the family?They would not see all the embarassing things she has said or done which have alienated friends of mine, like how when I was young I avoided bringing them over for fear of my mother saying or doing something stupid during her drinking binges.

My response:After I grew up, people would ask WHY I did not go to visit my parents, but some did not really want to hear my reasons, even when recounted briefly.

My husband accused me of trying to turn him against my dad,

After my dad died, my husband suggested that I pursue trying to become my mom's legal guardian, bring her to live in our city and go to counselling MYSELF to learn to cope with her, after I had told him I was NOT going to become involved with her again.

To avoid a hastle, I learned to not discuss my family of origin, or would come up with a semi truthful reply if questioned.

In one sense, this self imposed secrecy is unfortunate because ther was a lot of good in my parents, they taught me a lot;

but when I would tell people about the good things, then there woud be questions of; do you visit often etc etc...

Maybe most people want to 'see' family as unilateraly good, and not admit that some families have both good and bad things in them.

I am responsible for my own well being, and too much contact with my parents, even as an adult, would result in my becoming really upset. then it would take me weeeks to return to a semblance of stability.

While growing up, I hesitated to bring friends over, not wanting them to hear my mom go into a paranoid rant to my dad, or to my freind and I, and my dad then tell her to shut up, whic then led to more ranting from her, escalation, etc etc.

My mom also would not listen to me, then wonder why i stopped telling her things. OR she would twist what I told her and use it as a weapon against me.

Eventually I said i could be like an 'arms length casual friend to her" but not discuss personal problems either hers or mine with her. She was an interesting writer, when we wrote about plants and birds, weather. books and authors, her dog, my cats etc. My mom was probably quite intellegent BUT lacked some life skills and was paranoid.

This casual friends thing did not work for long, she would tell me people who were out to get her, or she would criticize me for not writing more etc. etc.

so i eventually stopped writing, would send an very occasional card.

wrote: (excerpted)

The dynamics of a situation really are not that hard to understand. There are plausible reasons for everyone's behavior. A person just needs to get inside their heads.

my response;

We each live in our own world view, maybe people don't really want to get inside some one else's head. (when their world view is so different from ours)

for example: I find it difficult to understand those who have an undying loyalty to an abusive family (inspite of abuse)

second example: people who grew up in a genuinley happy family may not be able to comprehend the view of someone who grew up with an alcoholic parent or a mentally ill parent, or it may distress them to consider those situations.

This is a very thought provoking discussion......

renaissanzelady

"My cat Rusty is a servant of the Living God."(adapted from a poem by Smart)

From: environmental1st2003 <no_reply >Subject: Re: Listening to MadnessTo: FAMSecretSociety Received: Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 9:27 AM

"my dad was very volatile, moody, emotional, and was violent at times. i do not know if he was ever diagnosed with a mental problem."With a history of mental illness in the family, it is quite possible that if he was actually the more grounded person among them, him being in that position can have the unfortunate effect of making him moody and emotional, and sometimes violent. I can tell you that my mother drives both my sister and I nuts. My mother is not senile, nor does she present with Alzhiemer's symptoms, but she is an alcoholic. I believe she has killed off many of her brain cells. These past two days I have sent e-mail letters to her which have resulted in replies that indicated she did not

understand the gist of my letters. I write to her in very plain English. Much plainer than I do here to forestall a lack of understanding on her part, and nothing frustrates me more when she STILL fails to understand me. Do I have to write along the lines of a "See spot. See spot run." story?What is especially frustrating for me is that her alcoholism has ALWAYS stood as a barrier between her understanding me, my sister, or what's going on around her. She is not that intelligent to begin with, pile on the alcoholism, and dealing with her all these years has resulted in me having a short fuse. It is hard for me to honor and respect her with each passing day.A person looking at my relationship with her might think it rude, or disrespectful, but they did not see the hypocrisy of her not making the effort to listen to me while striving to appear normal to people outside of the family. If she can work so hard to listen to and pay

attention to people that do not matter, then why can't she work that hard for the family?They would not see all the embarassing things she has said or done which have alienated friends of mine, like how when I was young I avoided bringing them over for fear of my mother saying or doing something stupid during her drinking binges. The dynamics of a situation really are not that hard to understand. There are plausible reasons for everyone's behavior. A person just needs to get inside their heads. Administrator

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If she can work so hard to listen to and pay attention to people that do not matter, then why can't she work that hard for the family?It sounds like you had a horrible time and nothing can make that up to you, but from my experience of sustaining a mask before dx, the public effort you make cannot be sustained 24/7. Although the consequences cannot be compared, it is a bit like someone coming home and taking off a business suit and putting on a track suit. Unfortunately, with personality/alcoholic/mental health issues, the consequences of getting comfy at home can be tragic for others.

Re: Listening to Madness

"my dad was very volatile, moody, emotional, and was violent at times. i do not know if he was ever diagnosed with a mental problem."

With a history of mental illness in the family, it is quite possible that if he was actually the more grounded person among them, him being in that position can have the unfortunate effect of making him moody and emotional, and sometimes violent. I can tell you that my mother drives both my sister and I nuts. My mother is not senile, nor does she present with Alzhiemer's symptoms, but she is an alcoholic. I believe she has killed off many of her brain cells. These past two days I have sent e-mail letters to her which have resulted in replies that indicated she did not understand the gist of my letters. I write to her in very plain English. Much plainer than I do here to forestall a lack of understanding on her part, and nothing frustrates me more when she STILL fails to understand me. Do I have to write along the lines of a "See spot. See spot run." story?

What is especially frustrating for me is that her alcoholism has ALWAYS stood as a barrier between her understanding me, my sister, or what's going on around her. She is not that intelligent to begin with, pile on the alcoholism, and dealing with her all these years has resulted in me having a short fuse. It is hard for me to honor and respect her with each passing day.

A person looking at my relationship with her might think it rude, or disrespectful, but they did not see the hypocrisy of her not making the effort to listen to me while striving to appear normal to people outside of the family. If she can work so hard to listen to and pay attention to people that do not matter, then why can't she work that hard for the family?

They would not see all the embarassing things she has said or done which have alienated friends of mine, like how when I was young I avoided bringing them over for fear of my mother saying or doing something stupid during her drinking binges. The dynamics of a situation really are not that hard to understand. There are plausible reasons for everyone's behavior. A person just needs to get inside their heads.

Administrator

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Fellowship of the Aspergian Miracle is the last series of message boards founded by an original Aspergia member to carry the Aspergia name with the www.aspergia.com website owner's permission. To contact the FAM forum administrator, use this e-mail address: FAMSecretSociety-owner

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Ditto to this. Mine will never admit fault for anything, even if caught red handed in the act. Very annoying.

In a message dated 5/14/2009 11:47:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes:

My mother is like this also. She always misremembers events in her favor. Fortunately, I have occasionally been able to prove her wrong with home videos and pictures. But I notice that after time passes, she forgets that I have shown her the home videos or pictures that disproved her remembrance of events and goes back to believing things happened the way she remembers them. Dell Mini Netbooks: Great deals starting at $299 after instant savings!

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grobertson said, excerpted:

my experience of sustaining a mask before dx, the public effort you make cannot be sustained 24/7. Although the consequences cannot be compared, it is a bit like someone coming home and taking off a business suit and putting on a track suit. Unfortunately, with personality/ alcoholic/ mental health issues, the consequences of getting comfy at home can be tragic for others.

my reply: That's a neat analogy, but as you say the consequences are vastly different.

renaissanzelady"My cat Rusty is a servant of the Living God."(adapted from a poem by Smart)

Subject: Re: Re: Listening to MadnessTo: FAMSecretSociety Received: Thursday, May 14, 2009, 3:33 AM

If she can work so hard to listen to and pay attention to people that do not matter, then why can't she work that hard for the family?It sounds like you had a horrible time and nothing can make that up to you, but from my experience of sustaining a mask before dx, the public effort you make cannot be sustained 24/7. Although the consequences cannot be compared, it is a bit like someone coming home and taking off a business suit and putting on a track suit. Unfortunately, with personality/ alcoholic/ mental health issues, the consequences of getting comfy at home can be tragic for others. Re: Listening to Madness

"my dad was very volatile, moody, emotional, and was violent at times. i do not know if he was ever diagnosed with a mental problem."

With a history of mental illness in the family, it is quite possible that if he was actually the more grounded person among them, him being in that position can have the unfortunate effect of making him moody and emotional, and sometimes violent. I can tell you that my mother drives both my sister and I nuts. My mother is not senile, nor does she present with Alzhiemer's symptoms, but she is an alcoholic. I believe she has killed off many of her brain cells. These past two days I have sent e-mail letters to her which have resulted in replies that indicated she did not understand the gist of my letters. I write to her in very plain English. Much plainer than I do here to forestall a lack of understanding on her part, and nothing frustrates me more when she STILL fails to understand me. Do I have to write along the lines of a "See spot. See spot run." story?

What is especially frustrating for me is that her alcoholism has ALWAYS stood as a barrier between her understanding me, my sister, or what's going on around her. She is not that intelligent to begin with, pile on the alcoholism, and dealing with her all these years has resulted in me having a short fuse. It is hard for me to honor and respect her with each passing day.

A person looking at my relationship with her might think it rude, or disrespectful, but they did not see the hypocrisy of her not making the effort to listen to me while striving to appear normal to people outside of the family. If she can work so hard to listen to and pay attention to people that do not matter, then why can't she work that hard for the family?

They would not see all the embarassing things she has said or done which have alienated friends of mine, like how when I was young I avoided bringing them over for fear of my mother saying or doing something stupid during her drinking binges. The dynamics of a situation really are not that hard to understand. There are plausible reasons for everyone's behavior. A person just needs to get inside their heads.

Administrator

------------ --------- --------- ------

Fellowship of the Aspergian Miracle is the last series of message boards founded by an original Aspergia member to carry the Aspergia name with the www.aspergia. com website owner's permission. To contact the FAM forum administrator, use this e-mail address: FAMSecretSociety- owner@yahoogroup s.com

Check the Links section for more FAM forums.