Re: Bulgarian Lifting Methodology - Coach or Athlete Decision?

[Guest guest]

,

By doing a variation of the competition lift sounds like westside and loui

simmons system, he has learned a lot from olympic lifters. Just something I

recognized.

Doug Fairbanks

Boston, MA

>>> " This meant that while the muscles’ where going to the maximum the nervous

system was, practically, only going to 75% to 85%. Certainly loads that an

American Athlete could tolerate, especially if it was for singles.Now the

challenge was how to relate doubles and singles in the lifts with pulls, squats

and presses for the rest of the training.” " "

To: Supertraining@...: Carruthersjam@...: Sun, 2 Nov

2008 09:44:16 +0000Subject: Bulgarian Lifting Methodology -

Coach or Athlete Decision?

The below extracts are taken from the USA Lifting Magazine: " " For more than a

decade top USAW Coaches Mike Burgener and Steve Gough have been promoting the

idea of Bulgarian Training. Gough was influenced by what he experienced when

attending the Spassov Seminars. Burgener was first exposed to this concept when

he attended a USOC Weightlifting Symposium in January of 1992. At first each of

them attempted to stay right with the program expectations and while they did

experience success the cultural differences began to show and they began making

modifications. The following is Burgener’s comments about the first adjustment.

“We had always heard that the Bulgarians always lifted to the maximum each and

every session. The first goal was to find out what this meant. In reality we

discovered that this maximum was a relative term. The athlete was “maxing out”

but in a power movement, a hang movement or another movement that was a

variation of the classical lift.This meant that while the muscles’ where going

to the maximum the nervous system was, practically, only going to 75% to 85%.

Certainly loads that an American Athlete could tolerate, especially if it was

for singles.Now the challenge was how to relate doubles and singles in the lifts

with pulls, squats and presses for the rest of the training.” " " During heavy

sessions Bulgarian lifters will build up to their daily max (Spassov, 1997). The

latter max is the starting point of their training: the daily max is used to

calculate the training load for the rest of the session. Aján and Baroga also

refer to a similar (Hungarian-Romanian) perspective in their book.Regarding the

" maxing out " sessions does the coach look at the athlete and analyse their

performance during the worksets and tell him or her to go heavy that workout or

are maximum sessions planned in advance? Or does the athlete make an informed

decision based upon how they feel? OR a combine approach including the athlete,

coach and possible objective indicators. CarruthersWakefield, UK

==============================

[Guest guest]

Im really curious how those guys quantified (even approximately) the

follwing:

QUOTE*********************

This meant that while the muscles' where going to the maximum the

nervous system was, practically going to 75% to 85%

**************************

I feel that all this talk about " neural fatigue " and " CNS fatigue " is

pretty much off base and the terms used very loosely , and maybe

without too much link to reality.

Opinions ?

Dan Partelly

Oradea, Romania

>

> ,

>

> By doing a variation of the competition lift sounds like westside

and loui simmons system, he has learned a lot from olympic lifters.

Just something I recognized.

>

> Doug Fairbanks

> Boston, MA

>

>

> >>> " This meant that while the muscles' where going to the maximum

the nervous system was, practically, only going to 75% to 85%.

Certainly loads that an American Athlete could tolerate, especially if

it was for singles.Now the challenge was how to relate doubles and

singles in the lifts with pulls, squats and presses for the rest of

the training. " " "

>

> To: Supertraining@...: Carruthersjam@...: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 09:44:16

+0000Subject: Bulgarian Lifting Methodology - Coach or

Athlete Decision?

>

>

>

>

> The below extracts are taken from the USA Lifting Magazine: " " For

more than a decade top USAW Coaches Mike Burgener and Steve Gough have

been promoting the idea of Bulgarian Training. Gough was influenced by

what he experienced when attending the Spassov Seminars. Burgener was

first exposed to this concept when he attended a USOC Weightlifting

Symposium in January of 1992. At first each of them attempted to stay

right with the program expectations and while they did experience

success the cultural differences began to show and they began making

modifications. The following is Burgener's comments about the first

adjustment. " We had always heard that the Bulgarians always lifted to

the maximum each and every session. The first goal was to find out

what this meant. In reality we discovered that this maximum was a

relative term. The athlete was " maxing out " but in a power movement, a

hang movement or another movement that was a variation of the

classical lift.This meant that while the muscles' where going to the

maximum the nervous system was, practically, only going to 75% to 85%.

Certainly loads that an American Athlete could tolerate, especially if

it was for singles.Now the challenge was how to relate doubles and

singles in the lifts with pulls, squats and presses for the rest of

the training. " " " During heavy sessions Bulgarian lifters will build up

to their daily max (Spassov, 1997). The latter max is the starting

point of their training: the daily max is used to calculate the

training load for the rest of the session. Aján and Baroga also refer

to a similar (Hungarian-Romanian) perspective in their book.Regarding

the " maxing out " sessions does the coach look at the athlete and

analyse their performance during the worksets and tell him or her to

go heavy that workout or are maximum sessions planned in advance? Or

does the athlete make an informed decision based upon how they feel?

OR a combine approach including the athlete, coach and possible

objective indicators. CarruthersWakefield, UK

>

>

> ==============================

>

[Guest guest]

> " We had always heard that the Bulgarians always lifted to the

maximum each and every session. The first goal was to find out what

this meant.

> In reality we discovered that this maximum was a relative term. The

athlete was " maxing out " but in a power movement, a hang movement or

another movement that was a variation of the classical lift.

> This meant that while the muscles' where going to the maximum the

nervous system was, practically, only going to 75% to 85%. Certainly

loads that an American Athlete could tolerate, especially if it was

for singles.

> Now the challenge was how to relate doubles and singles in the

lifts with pulls, squats and presses for the rest of the training. " " "

>

****

Below are relevant extracts from various articles by Ivan Abadjiev:

Abadjiev Training Lecture

....Before Abadjiev became head coach in 1969 there were more than 19

ways of lifting weights, including jumps, running. Eventually,

almost all of those exercises dropped away from the weightlifting

program. They used to do camps at altitude in winter, and do a lot

of skiing to build the heart and lungs. As a result, he started

scientifically exploring why adaptation works the way it does and why

the primary muscle groups should be supported. Weightlifters who

were the most physically developed, who had the most achievement, he

had them carry a piano up to his apartment on the fifth floor, and

they could not make it past the second floor. Little gypsy boys who

were not very developed carried it all the way to the fifth floor,

and that was very embarrassing.

The exercises dropped first to 8, and in Vittoria in Spain, we had 6

gold medals, which were two more than the Russians had.

And then in 1986, we started doing only 5 exercises, and then we had

seven golds, and the Russians had two.

And in events the next year we had seven again and the Russians had

two.

This shows clearly that by limiting the exercises we got better

results.

You could be doing those four exercises and still not achieving

anything because it depends on your lifting the maximum weight you

could lift. In many situations, you don't know what your maximum

weight is, I mean you think that something is your maximum weight is

and it isn't, because the athlete can be wrong about his maximum

achieving state. ***We can use pulse rate to discover the maximum

weight. If the athlete has a pulse of less than 180, it means that

he can do more.***

========================================

Ivan Abadzhiev: Very Heavy Weightlifting

by Yelena Vaytsehovskaya, November 1999

Translation by Arthur Chidlovski

http://www.chidlovski.net/liftup/a_interview_abadzhiev_111999.asp

…. There were different interpretations. Some said that Bulgarian

training methods didn't make any sense - no diversity in training, no

basic training, no conditioning. Only weightlifting. Maximum weights

to be lifted in the training. Someone came up with the saying: " Had

Paganini instead of playing violin 15 hours a day played also a

flute, he would have never become the greatest. " There were talks

about Bulgarian lifters using banned anabolic substances. Although,

everybody knew that the Soviets were following the pharmacological

prescriptions with the same extend.

- Because of your methodology?

- It wasn't like any other system in the world. It contradicted every

basic principles. In Bulgaria, many other sports disciplines are

build on the methods developed by the Soviet experts. The main

concept is distinct periodization, preparation stage, interim stage,

competition stage... I threw it away at once. When a rabbit is being

chased by the wolf, does he have an interim stage for running? Yes,

he can hide in the bushes but he is ready to start running 100

percent at any time. Is it logical to achieve outstanding results by

hard work and then to stop and to go back to a lower level?

I began to think about it and then I saw a very interesting research

study of Swedish scientists. You know each muscle consists of various

textures. The fast ones - the ones that the lifters need the most,

and the slow ones. Under certain training intensity, the slow ones

can turn into the fast ones and the other way around. The first

process requires a long-term work and high intensity, the latest

happens instantly... just decrease the intensity. That's what happens

in the interim stage.

- But it's very hard to train with a constant high intensity and

stress.

- And how about the adaptation theory? It's a science by the way: if

you place a body into a certain environment, it begins to adapt to it.

- Too tough.

- Professional sport is a tough activity overall.

- But Olympic weightlifting is not the sport where competitions go

one after another one. I know that the Russian lifters have three to

four competitions per year.

- I tried to set up as many competitions for my lifters as I could.

Even in the old times, when our team was definitely the best in the

world, we had nine to ten competitions per season. The first one was

always the national championship. We mixed the big sports

competitions with the commercial ones. So, the lifters had a better

motivation.

- Do you think that the lifters should always lift their maximum

weights on the platform?

- It's a good question. On the one hand, I don't like heroics - it's

just too easy to get an injury. Boevsky simply didn't lift what he

was ready for. Many people blame me that I overload lifters in the

training. 15-20 kilos more than needed for the win. They say that

it's enough to lift 2.5 kilos more than your opponent does and you

are a champion. What is 2.5 kilos? Nothing. You get a light cold

before the competition or a small injury and that's all. Someone else

will win. Even if you win, 2.5-5 kilos doesn't give you any

psychological advantage.

===================================

The Preparation of International Class Weightlifters

Ivan Abadjiev

Bulgaria

Bearing in mind the importance of the positive changes in the body as

a result of raising its function and the role of intramuscular

coordination for the increase in its efficiency, we have devised

training programmes in accordance with the above mentioned

requirements for the Bulgarian weightlifters.

MONDAY:

9.00 - 9.30 Front squat

9.30 - 10.00 Break

10.00 - 11.00 Snatch

11.00 - 11.30 Break

11.30 - 12.30 Jerk

12.30 - 13.00 Front squat

16.30 - 17.30 Jerk

17.30 - 18.00 Break

18.00 - 19.00 Snatch

19.00 - 19.30 Front squat

19.30 - 20.00 Snatch pulls each 5 times repetitions and jerk pulls 5

x 3

TUESDAY.

9.00 - 9.30 Back squat

9.30 - 10.00 Break

10.00 -10.45 Power snatch

10.45 - 11.45 Break

11.45 - 12.00 Power jerk

12.00 - 12.30 Front squat

12.30 - 13.00 Both pulls /5 x 3 each/

WEDNESDAY and FRIDAY like MONDAY

THURSDAY and SATURDAY like TUESDAY

What are the characteristics of these training programmes?

Well, they assure a great volume of work, by which is assured powerful

functioning of the working organs, as well as the execution of a

large total number of repetitions.

=============================

Hobman also wrote on the ST list:

The great Bulgarian coach Abadzhiev was constantly tinkering with his

system and addressing flaws and individual variations, just as

Medvedyev and all great coaches do. In Turkileri's book " The Pocket

Hercules " the problem of injury under his coaching was addressed (AIR

in and around 1984 when Blagoev was injured). Abadzhiev still felt

that the crucial training parameter for adaptation of weightlifters

was intensity, but he did back off the volume of training. In many

cases volume was reduced primarily in assistance work. For Abadzhiev

assistance work either had to relate directly to the classic lifts or

address a technical problem. Suleymanoglu was doing snatches from the

hang and jerks off stands even in the 80's to address a technical

(motor) problem.

=========================

Carruthers

Wakefield, UK