Magnesium

[Guest guest]

You might try Magnesium Citrate (the best we've found for my ASD grandson

and myself is the NOW brand in capsules - 166 mg each cap). Mag Citrate is the

most soluble, and it loosens stools. By far the best results I've had for

myself even, and I'm old enough to have tried darn near everything!

[Guest guest]

Hi-- I think the main reason for doing the epsom salt baths/creams is

to get the sulfate into the body to help the pst

(phenolsulfotransferase--sp?) issues with ASD. The magnesium comes

along as 'icing on the cake', kind of like a fringe benefit. So if you

want sulfate to help PST, continue to use epsom salts in some form

(i.e. bath, cream, or spray). If you want supplemental magnesium,

magnesium glycinate is a good form.

W

> I'm always reading about epsom salt baths/cream and all of the

positive

> benefits of their use. I'm wondering, could you get the same results

> with supplementing extra magnesium (say, glycinate), or is it the

> sulfate (or the fact that it's absorbed through the skin) that is

> important? We had been doing the baths regularly, but my son prefers

> showers now. I can still do the cream, but supplementing would be

> easier. What is a good amount of magnesium to give on a daily basis

> for general health in an ASD child (50 lbs.)? If I use the cream, is

> once a day too much/too little? Sorry so many ?'s!!!!

>

> Thanks,

> Kim

[Guest guest]

Betty,

I had evaporated milk formula too then we had raw milk from a family cow. Now

I get mucous reactions from casein, milk protein no matter where it is from. Am

almost 50. Fought hypoglycemia for 15 years. Could have been diabetes. My Mom

just lost her second leg to diabetes. Had a short bout of what could be

considered chronic fatigue 17 years ago. Doctor passed off as not physical.

Would it be helpful if it wasn't what your Mom fed you or what the food

industry pushed? What if it were the genes you were born with? Some celiac tests

test for genes, others for intestinal damage with biopsy. Celiac disease is

genetic.

Better news is that even though celiac is the last diagnosis it is linked to

all the other diagnoses. Do a google search on gluten fibromyalgia or any of the

others with gluten and you'll see how the autoimmune system can react.

Within a month of not eating gluten I had a few dozen noticeable improvements.

Some I'd never realized. Magnesium citrate made me weak and nauseous.

Asthma is included in this Brain Allergies article

http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/brainallergies.htm

I had terrible colic and eczema on evaporated milk formula.

Eating gluten and dairy free isn't as terrible as it sounds. Humans have lived

longer historically on meat, veggies, fruits and nuts than they have from

grains, dairy and processed food.

Wanita

Betty Pearson <betty@...> wrote:

I have been told that I am low in magnesium, and that is why I have muscle

cramps and pains. I have a friend who has given me a supplement called,

" CALM " . Has anyone heard of it? It is made from Magnesium Citrate. I'm

trying to improve my health! :-) After fifty years of a not-so-good diet

(I thought it was good), well, time is giving me problems. I have

diabetes, chronic fatigue, fibromylagia, asthma, and now celiac disease and

bursitis. When I exercise to help my diabetes/fibromyalgia, I get bursitis!

Another friend who managed a health food store told me my problems started

when I was fed canned milk as a baby instead of being nursed by my mother.

I grew up in a home that used margarine and vegetable oils. My father sold

candy & snacks for a living, and he'd bring home the old stuff for us to

eat...yep, sometimes rancid. Whether or not this led to my current problems

I guess can be debatable. I hate to blame my poor mother because like most

mothers, food industries have mislead many people. But I sure would like to

fix my problems! ANY suggestions???

Betty in Lehi

Protect your photos from natural disasters

http://bettykarl.myphotomax.com

[Guest guest]

--- In , " Betty Pearson " <betty@...>

wrote:

.... I have

> diabetes, chronic fatigue, fibromylagia, asthma, and now celiac

disease and

> bursitis...

....ANY suggestions???

>

> Betty in Lehi,

I suggest you join this list:

GFCFNN/

I think you will find it very helpful.

B.

[Guest guest]

Betty,

I do know that those little eye twitches we can all get from time to time are

due to low levels of magnesium. Sufficient amounts of magnesium are crucial to

good digestive health as well. I can recommend a book for you to read called

Digestive Wellness by Liz Lipski, phD, CCN. I have heard her lecture on celiac

disease-- and pretty much all of the ailments you listed as having-- and its

genesis in your GI tract. As part of my own holistic health counseling

practice, the digestive tract is often the first place where clients will begin

their healing process. If you'd like to discuss more about this in greater

detail, please let me know. Most likely you only need the tools to begin

rebuilding your digestion, from the inside out...and there are many supplements

that can aid you in the process. It could be that you have low levels of

hydrochloric acid in your stomach, which can lead to calcium and magnesium

deficiencies, due to malabsorption of nutrients.

-Kate Short

http://www.integrativenutrition.com/graduates/KShort.aspx

Betty Pearson <betty@...> wrote:

I have been told that I am low in magnesium, and that is why I have muscle

cramps and pains. I have a friend who has given me a supplement called,

" CALM " . Has anyone heard of it? It is made from Magnesium Citrate. I'm

trying to improve my health! :-) After fifty years of a not-so-good diet

(I thought it was good), well, time is giving me problems. I have

diabetes, chronic fatigue, fibromylagia, asthma, and now celiac disease and

bursitis. When I exercise to help my diabetes/fibromyalgia, I get bursitis!

Another friend who managed a health food store told me my problems started

when I was fed canned milk as a baby instead of being nursed by my mother.

I grew up in a home that used margarine and vegetable oils. My father sold

candy & snacks for a living, and he'd bring home the old stuff for us to

eat...yep, sometimes rancid. Whether or not this led to my current problems

I guess can be debatable. I hate to blame my poor mother because like most

mothers, food industries have mislead many people. But I sure would like to

fix my problems! ANY suggestions???

Betty in Lehi

Protect your photos from natural disasters

http://bettykarl.myphotomax.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Betty,

This is one of my favorite sites when it comes to how micronutrients

effect us in terms of disease:

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/magnesium/index.html

As for what to do about it: I second 's suggestion to join GFCFNN.

-Lana

[Guest guest]

RE: magnesium - epsom salt in your bath is supposed to give you all

the magnesium you need in about 20 minutes. My kids love it.

Not sure low magnesium is the whole cause of your problems, tho. My

husband says " If you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail " to

me, but anyone with chronic fatigue should get checked for lyme.

Some estimates say around 20% of the population have it. You can

read up at www.canlyme.com. Quest lab has about a 70% false

negative rate for lyme, so Igenix or Bowen are better labs.

Other possible causes, are you drinking enough water?

Could you have a candida problem?

Have you had your blood sugar tested lately? The diabetes can cause

the fatigue if your blood sugar isn't managed well. Interestingly,

my grandmother had type II diabetes and it went away when she

watched what she ate. Doctors claim this is impossible, but I've

heard others say they have also recovered from diabetes.

Still, the list of symptoms you gave sound very much like the ones

people coming to the lyme forum list, and when they treat the lyme

they feel much better. A common indicator of lyme is a stiff neck

that crackles when you turn your head, tho not everybody gets that.

Hope this helps!

- Renate

--- In , " Betty Pearson " <betty@...>

wrote:

>

> I have been told that I am low in magnesium, and that is why I

have muscle

> cramps and pains. I have a friend who has given me a supplement

called,

> " CALM " . Has anyone heard of it? It is made from Magnesium

Citrate. I'm

> trying to improve my health! :-) After fifty years of a not-so-

good diet

> (I thought it was good), well, time is giving me problems. I

have

> diabetes, chronic fatigue, fibromylagia, asthma, and now celiac

disease and

> bursitis. When I exercise to help my diabetes/fibromyalgia, I get

bursitis!

>

> Another friend who managed a health food store told me my problems

started

> when I was fed canned milk as a baby instead of being nursed by my

mother.

> I grew up in a home that used margarine and vegetable oils. My

father sold

> candy & snacks for a living, and he'd bring home the old stuff for

us to

> eat...yep, sometimes rancid. Whether or not this led to my

current problems

> I guess can be debatable. I hate to blame my poor mother because

like most

> mothers, food industries have mislead many people. But I sure

would like to

> fix my problems! ANY suggestions???

>

> Betty in Lehi

> Protect your photos from natural disasters

> http://bettykarl.myphotomax.com

>

[Guest guest]

Start eating ANIMAL FOOD with lots of ANIMAL FAT. Cheese, butter, (not

milk) are fine... and are great for making meals that are not boring. Think

of all the dishes one can make with eggs and meat and cheese and butter and

tallow and lard and spices. Sausage and cheese omelets are great with the

right spices! This is a VERY HEALTHY way to eat!

Diabetes is the result of the immune system sensing the widespread tissue

damage from insulin, targeting the source cells in the pancreas and

destroying them. Insulin resistance type diabetes is the result of the

tissues themselves rejecting insulin. Neither form is found in any other

animal in nature, man's carnivorous pets fed a grain based diet may also

suffer this syndrome.

In the absence of dietary carbs, the body does not need to produce insulin

and the diabetes essentially 'disappears'. You will never be told this by a

doctor because then you would be free of the need for medical intervention

and your daily ration of drugs. All the assorted ills diabetics suffer are

actually caused by insulin, cataracts, heart attacks, bad joints, etc. These

are the kind of damages done to the tissues by insulin, and the injected

kind is a far more powerful damaging agent than the endogenous hormone.

Blood monitoring on a zero-carb regime will quickly confirm the stability of

blood glucose.

You don't need all these insulin producing carbs from veggies and fruit and

grains and legumes. Meat and organs have all the nutrients (the true

nutrients) you need.

Dean

_____

I have been told that I am low in magnesium, and that is why I have muscle

cramps and pains. I have a friend who has given me a supplement called,

" CALM " . Has anyone heard of it? It is made from Magnesium Citrate. I'm

trying to improve my health! :-) After fifty years of a not-so-good diet

(I thought it was good), well, time is giving me problems. I have

diabetes, chronic fatigue, fibromylagia, asthma, and now celiac disease and

bursitis. When I exercise to help my diabetes/fibromyalgia, I get bursitis!

Another friend who managed a health food store told me my problems started

when I was fed canned milk as a baby instead of being nursed by my mother.

I grew up in a home that used margarine and vegetable oils. My father sold

candy & snacks for a living, and he'd bring home the old stuff for us to

eat...yep, sometimes rancid. Whether or not this led to my current problems

I guess can be debatable. I hate to blame my poor mother because like most

mothers, food industries have mislead many people. But I sure would like to

fix my problems! ANY suggestions???

Betty in Lehi

[Guest guest]

They have lived longer on meat and fat from animals... with NO other

foodstuffs longer than any other diet.

Dean

_____

Eating gluten and dairy free isn't as terrible as it sounds. Humans have

lived longer historically on meat, veggies, fruits and nuts than they have

from grains, dairy and processed food.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

More true than my statement. We wouldn't be here, doing what we do, if not for

that. Was thinking more on the gatherer line than the agricultural for the

plants.

Wanita

Dean <dean@...> wrote:

They have lived longer on meat and fat from animals... with NO other

foodstuffs longer than any other diet.

Dean

_____

Eating gluten and dairy free isn't as terrible as it sounds. Humans have

lived longer historically on meat, veggies, fruits and nuts than they have

from grains, dairy and processed food.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

I have not thought about Lyme disease. Don't you catch it from a tick?

They are rare in the West, I think. I've never heard of anyone here getting

that disease.

Betty in Lehi

[Guest guest]

Right... for a LONG time humans ate pretty exclusively from hunted game...

then came a shorter period of hunter-gatherer, then agriculture (ugh!)... it

just all came to fast for our poor bodies to adjust quick enough! :-(

_____

More true than my statement. We wouldn't be here, doing what we do, if not

for that. Was thinking more on the gatherer line than the agricultural for

the plants.

Wanita

Dean <dean@...> wrote:

They have lived longer on meat and fat from animals... with NO other

foodstuffs longer than any other diet.

Dean

_____

Eating gluten and dairy free isn't as terrible as it sounds. Humans have

lived longer historically on meat, veggies, fruits and nuts than they have

from grains, dairy and processed food.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

The hunter-gatherer period was longer than than the 12,000 years since

agriculture but shorter than the hunter, human brain development period.

Pastoral period pre agriculture for some while many remained hunter- gatherer.

Wanita

Dean <dean@...> wrote:

Right... for a LONG time humans ate pretty exclusively from hunted game...

then came a shorter period of hunter-gatherer, then agriculture (ugh!)... it

just all came to fast for our poor bodies to adjust quick enough! :-(

_____

More true than my statement. We wouldn't be here, doing what we do, if not

for that. Was thinking more on the gatherer line than the agricultural for

the plants.

Wanita

Dean wrote:

They have lived longer on meat and fat from animals... with NO other

foodstuffs longer than any other diet.

Dean

_____

Eating gluten and dairy free isn't as terrible as it sounds. Humans have

lived longer historically on meat, veggies, fruits and nuts than they have

from grains, dairy and processed food.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

So, Wanita,

How long do you think the hunter-gatherer period was? And, due to the last

ice age, how could it have been very long at all for many people in the far

north? I think they would have continued scavenging and hunting during the

ice age time (after a couple million years of the same).

_____

The hunter-gatherer period was longer than than the 12,000 years since

agriculture but shorter than the hunter, human brain development period.

Pastoral period pre agriculture for some while many remained hunter-

gatherer.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

>

> Right... for a LONG time humans ate pretty exclusively from hunted

game...

> then came a shorter period of hunter-gatherer, then agriculture

(ugh!)... it

> just all came to fast for our poor bodies to adjust quick enough! :-(

I don't know if I can believe humans, or their descendants were

exclusively hunters at one point. I think there had to have been some

type of gathering in all of human history. I mean, we didn't evolve

from completely carnivorous primates then get smarter and decided to

only hunt and not gather any of natures bounty, did we?

I dunno, I could be wrong, but I don't think humans or the descendants

of humans were ever just hunters. Just doesn't make sense that it

would happen that way.

-

[Guest guest]

On 3/2/06, gdawson6 <gdawson6@...> wrote:

>

> >

> > Right... for a LONG time humans ate pretty exclusively from hunted

> game...

> > then came a shorter period of hunter-gatherer, then agriculture

> (ugh!)... it

> > just all came to fast for our poor bodies to adjust quick enough! :-(

>

>

> I don't know if I can believe humans, or their descendants were

> exclusively hunters at one point. I think there had to have been some

> type of gathering in all of human history. I mean, we didn't evolve

> from completely carnivorous primates then get smarter and decided to

> only hunt and not gather any of natures bounty, did we?

>

> I dunno, I could be wrong, but I don't think humans or the descendants

> of humans were ever just hunters. Just doesn't make sense that it

> would happen that way.

>

> -

Yes, I'd also say the idea that we were all once eating exclusively

animal foods is ludicrous. Especially on the timescales given above,

which would seem to say that in the time since the last ice age we

evolved, say, incisors for eating fruit. It seems clear that humans

have been so successful precisely because we are so adaptable, and

that such adaptability could not have been developed without a varied

diet since the " beginning. " Otherwise, why would closely-related

ancestral species found in archaeological digs also show varying

versions of the dentition of an omnivorous animal?

Carl Sauer (an older source, but one whose work is worth reading for

its amazing insight and beautiful prose) posits that humans must have

evolved along the coasts of Africa rather than the inland savanna (as

was usually argued) -- we're the only primates who are particularly

adapted to swimming (float easily, relatively hairless, appendages

well-suited), we seem particularly healthy with seafood in our diets,

etc, and most importantly that there seemed to be a niche there for an

omnivorous gatherer species that could eat a large variety of the rich

foods available along coastlines. There's lots of other evidence

cited, of course, but that's the beginning of the argument. The point

being that omnivorous roots had to have been there well before

agriculture and the ice age.

[Guest guest]

Do you believe cats were obligate hunters? Do you know why this would be

the most efficient means of survival, and only available to the ones on the

top of the food chain? Now, once we started scavenging (a LONG time ago)

cat kills, to get the bone marrow and brains, we began to grow bigger

brains. Once we got bigger brains and started organized hunting practices

(which then in turn contributed to our ever expanding brain via using our

brains) we got better at hunting. This obviously didn't happen overnight.

The " bounty " you refer to would have been the game meat that was plentiful

way back. The game being plentiful is what drove our evolution, and our

migration over the whole globe. But, when the " bounty " is animal food,

everything else is " food for animals " . It is a simple mathematical equation

of energy expended to get energy. If you drive a bunch of wild herbivores

over a cliff, you get a LOT of energy with very little expended. Eating

animal fat would satiate you so much you would not be hungry and would not

seek out other food sources. Only when game got scarce did humans resort to

" food for animals " . This is just pure logic.

Now, later, when the game did get scarce, if we had only had the brains of

cats we would not have been able to adapt and start eating omnivorously.

So, good thing for that. But, I don't think we have adapted well to

non-animal food yet. At least some of us haven't... especially those from

northern Europe who would have come out of the last ice age very recently,

and still then would have adopted animal husbandry for their subsistence. I

for one do much better on a totally animal food diet. That doesn't mean

that I eat only this food, but if I could I certainly would. I try to

anyway, and when getting plenty of good animal fat, it is much easier.

Dean

_____

I don't know if I can believe humans, or their descendants were

exclusively hunters at one point. I think there had to have been some

type of gathering in all of human history. I mean, we didn't evolve

from completely carnivorous primates then get smarter and decided to

only hunt and not gather any of natures bounty, did we?

I dunno, I could be wrong, but I don't think humans or the descendants

of humans were ever just hunters. Just doesn't make sense that it

would happen that way.

-

[Guest guest]

,

The development of our teeth was important for speech. We do have

carnivorous teeth as well. We DID adapt to eating other food when we needed

to. Probably more easily due to those " omnivorous roots " , as you point out.

We are still adapting to this day, though. And, for some of us, we haven't

adapted as much as others. It would be great if I could eat all the fruit

and nuts I wanted and never gain a pound of body fat, or never have any

digestive issues eating all other plants. But, this is not reality (at

least not for me).

And seafood from the coastline... hmmmm... sounds like lots of animal food

to me! ;-)

Dean

_____

Yes, I'd also say the idea that we were all once eating exclusively

animal foods is ludicrous. Especially on the timescales given above,

which would seem to say that in the time since the last ice age we

evolved, say, incisors for eating fruit. It seems clear that humans

have been so successful precisely because we are so adaptable, and

that such adaptability could not have been developed without a varied

diet since the " beginning. " Otherwise, why would closely-related

ancestral species found in archaeological digs also show varying

versions of the dentition of an omnivorous animal?

Carl Sauer (an older source, but one whose work is worth reading for

its amazing insight and beautiful prose) posits that humans must have

evolved along the coasts of Africa rather than the inland savanna (as

was usually argued) -- we're the only primates who are particularly

adapted to swimming (float easily, relatively hairless, appendages

well-suited), we seem particularly healthy with seafood in our diets,

etc, and most importantly that there seemed to be a niche there for an

omnivorous gatherer species that could eat a large variety of the rich

foods available along coastlines. There's lots of other evidence

cited, of course, but that's the beginning of the argument. The point

being that omnivorous roots had to have been there well before

agriculture and the ice age.

[Guest guest]

Dean,

Great post! is this the way you eat? do you eat any vegetables?

do you eat any carbs at all or just animal products? I'm reading

Life Without Bread.

Carolyn

--- In , " Dean " <dean@...>

wrote:

>

> Start eating ANIMAL FOOD with lots of ANIMAL FAT. Cheese,

butter, (not

> milk) are fine... and are great for making meals that are not

boring. Think

> of all the dishes one can make with eggs and meat and

cheese and butter and

> tallow and lard and spices. Sausage and cheese omelets are

great with the

> right spices! This is a VERY HEALTHY way to eat!

>

> Diabetes is the result of the immune system sensing the

widespread tissue

> damage from insulin, targeting the source cells in the

pancreas and

> destroying them. Insulin resistance type diabetes is the result

of the

> tissues themselves rejecting insulin. Neither form is found in

any other

> animal in nature, man's carnivorous pets fed a grain based

diet may also

> suffer this syndrome.

>

> In the absence of dietary carbs, the body does not need to

produce insulin

> and the diabetes essentially 'disappears'. You will never be

told this by a

> doctor because then you would be free of the need for medical

intervention

> and your daily ration of drugs. All the assorted ills diabetics

suffer are

> actually caused by insulin, cataracts, heart attacks, bad joints,

etc. These

> are the kind of damages done to the tissues by insulin, and

the injected

> kind is a far more powerful damaging agent than the

endogenous hormone.

> Blood monitoring on a zero-carb regime will quickly confirm the

stability of

> blood glucose.

>

> You don't need all these insulin producing carbs from veggies

and fruit and

> grains and legumes. Meat and organs have all the nutrients

(the true

> nutrients) you need.

>

> Dean

>

[Guest guest]

This is the way I try to eat. And, it gets easier all the time. One must

like to cook different meats with different spices and such. When I do eat

consistently like this, I feel FANTASTIC! You should try it for a few

weeks. Make sure to eat PLENTY of animal fat! BTW... animal food is all

dairy fat and eggs too.

" Life Without Bread " ... what a GREAT book!

Yah, I try to eat as close to zero carbs as possible, and pure animal food.

I call it the " antivegan diet " . ;-)

Dean

_____

Dean,

Great post! is this the way you eat? do you eat any vegetables?

do you eat any carbs at all or just animal products? I'm reading

Life Without Bread.

Carolyn

[Guest guest]

I should point out that you DO need to TRANSITION into this WOE! It is NOT

something that you should jump right into!

But, after a few weeks or even months of bringing your carbs down, you will

notice a HUGE difference in your health (your hair, skin, eyes, and of

course the way you feel!).

Dean

_____

This is the way I try to eat. And, it gets easier all the time. One must

like to cook different meats with different spices and such. When I do eat

consistently like this, I feel FANTASTIC! You should try it for a few

weeks. Make sure to eat PLENTY of animal fat! BTW... animal food is all

dairy fat and eggs too.

" Life Without Bread " ... what a GREAT book!

Yah, I try to eat as close to zero carbs as possible, and pure animal food.

I call it the " antivegan diet " . ;-)

Dean

_____

Dean,

Great post! is this the way you eat? do you eat any vegetables?

do you eat any carbs at all or just animal products? I'm reading

Life Without Bread.

Carolyn

[Guest guest]

On 3/2/06, Dean <dean@...> wrote:

> The development of our teeth was important for speech. We do have

> carnivorous teeth as well. We DID adapt to eating other food when we needed

> to. Probably more easily due to those " omnivorous roots " , as you point out.

> We are still adapting to this day, though. And, for some of us, we haven't

> adapted as much as others. It would be great if I could eat all the fruit

> and nuts I wanted and never gain a pound of body fat, or never have any

> digestive issues eating all other plants. But, this is not reality (at

> least not for me).

I agree with all of this-- your statement from the original post

sounded much more extreme, as if it was saying that people had never

eaten non-animal foods until after the last ice age, so that's what I

was responding to.

> And seafood from the coastline... hmmmm... sounds like lots of animal food

> to me! ;-)

Yes, definitely-- I mean that was a big part of the lesson to be

learned from Price et al. But he does also document them eating quite

a lot of other things IIRC, like various seaweeds etc. Also

interesting to me is Cabeza de Vaca's accounts of the natives along

the Texas coast and the various tubers they dug etc.

Of course the natives in the plains had basically been farming grass

for big game (and hence eating a ton of big game!) by annual burns

that actually shaped the landscape much more than people generally

imagine. It's always talked about as if it was some pristine

untouched wilderness before the whites arrived, when really the great

plains were probably created by the natives themselves. But even they

(the natives) were semi-cultivating things like specific pecan groves

and migrating according to the cycles of various fruit and nut trees.

I don't really have an argument here, I just think such foodways are

really interesting.

> Dean

>

>

> _____

>

> Yes, I'd also say the idea that we were all once eating exclusively

> animal foods is ludicrous. Especially on the timescales given above,

> which would seem to say that in the time since the last ice age we

> evolved, say, incisors for eating fruit. It seems clear that humans

> have been so successful precisely because we are so adaptable, and

> that such adaptability could not have been developed without a varied

> diet since the " beginning. " Otherwise, why would closely-related

> ancestral species found in archaeological digs also show varying

> versions of the dentition of an omnivorous animal?

>

> Carl Sauer (an older source, but one whose work is worth reading for

> its amazing insight and beautiful prose) posits that humans must have

> evolved along the coasts of Africa rather than the inland savanna (as

> was usually argued) -- we're the only primates who are particularly

> adapted to swimming (float easily, relatively hairless, appendages

> well-suited), we seem particularly healthy with seafood in our diets,

> etc, and most importantly that there seemed to be a niche there for an

> omnivorous gatherer species that could eat a large variety of the rich

> foods available along coastlines. There's lots of other evidence

> cited, of course, but that's the beginning of the argument. The point

> being that omnivorous roots had to have been there well before

> agriculture and the ice age.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I think that non-animal food was cultivated when it was needed, but I really

think that humans ate as much animal food as they could get their hands on.

Their whole ways of living revolved around being organized hunters. There

are no cave paintings of people planting corn, or picking berries! :-) This

way of life they had... it's how our brains evolved.

Dean

_____

Of course the natives in the plains had basically been farming grass

for big game (and hence eating a ton of big game!) by annual burns

that actually shaped the landscape much more than people generally

imagine. It's always talked about as if it was some pristine

untouched wilderness before the whites arrived, when really the great

plains were probably created by the natives themselves. But even they

(the natives) were semi-cultivating things like specific pecan groves

and migrating according to the cycles of various fruit and nut trees.

I don't really have an argument here, I just think such foodways are

really interesting.

[Guest guest]

On 3/3/06, Dean <dean@...> wrote:

> ,

>

> I think that non-animal food was cultivated when it was needed, but I really

> think that humans ate as much animal food as they could get their hands on.

> Their whole ways of living revolved around being organized hunters. There

> are no cave paintings of people planting corn, or picking berries! :-) This

> way of life they had... it's how our brains evolved.

>

> Dean

Well, there are relatively very few paintings of people alltogether.

Not disputing what you're saying, I just think it's interesting.

There are quite a few engravings of what look like seed heads and

various types of plants. Just looking at Leroi-Gourhan's table of

" styles " of markings from the Upper Paleolithic I found several

(though he wants to call them all penises or vaginas, I forget which).

Interesting though that, at least in this set in front of me, the

plantlike shapes start to appear only in the Upper Paleolithic, say

30,000-10,000 years ago.

Here's an ivory rod from Espélugues in the Hautes-Pyrénées that's in

the shape of a plant with kernels, and another from Moravia, both

" Upper Magdalenian, " i.e. pretty damned close to agriculture. But

here's another from the Aurignacian (say 30,000ish years ago... I

don't know if these definitions are deprecated or changed since this

source in the 70s) that's got grain heads next to a long list of lunar

tallies (according to this author, Marshack), as if to

record when grains appeared or somesuch.

Fun stuff.

> _____

>

> Of course the natives in the plains had basically been farming grass

> for big game (and hence eating a ton of big game!) by annual burns

> that actually shaped the landscape much more than people generally

> imagine. It's always talked about as if it was some pristine

> untouched wilderness before the whites arrived, when really the great

> plains were probably created by the natives themselves. But even they

> (the natives) were semi-cultivating things like specific pecan groves

> and migrating according to the cycles of various fruit and nut trees.

>

> I don't really have an argument here, I just think such foodways are

> really interesting.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry, but although this makes sense in theory, that eating no

carbs means you use no insulin, it is not true in practice. I have

gone on no-carb diets, and I still needed to inject insulin to keep my

blood sugars from being high. They do not go as high as with carbs,

but they stay high much, much longer because protein takes a long time

to digest.

I also feel ill and dizzy on no carbs, and my eyesight becomes blurry.

So I think that shows everyone is different -- it may work for one

person and not another, and it is not a cure for diabetes, though it

may be a helpful management tool if your system tolerates it. Sorry.

I feel best on the type of diet that has 65 to 70% healthy animal fats

and coconut oil, 20% carbs and 10-15% protein. And raw milk is great

for my diabetes, and is the main source of my carbohydrates. Eating

this way makes my blood sugars very stable and they come down easily

into the normal range when I inject insulin appropriate to the small

number of carbs in my meals.

Yes, I do believe the synthetic insulin is not the greatest thing for

the body, but it's what we have, and it works better than just letting

blood sugar run high all the time. I don't have the money to chase

after beef and pork insulin, since the American Diabetes Assn. decided

synthetic was better and it's so hard to get animal insulin these days.

By the way, vegetables do NOT need insulin to be digested, except

peas, potatoes and corn. Green veggies have so little carbs and so

much fiber that they do not raise blood sugar at all.

Ann

> --- In , " Dean " <dean@>

> >

> > In the absence of dietary carbs, the body does not need to

> produce insulin

> > and the diabetes essentially 'disappears'. You will never be

> told this by a

> > doctor because then you would be free of the need for medical

> intervention

> > and your daily ration of drugs. All the assorted ills diabetics

> suffer are

> > actually caused by insulin, cataracts, heart attacks, bad joints,

> etc. These

> > are the kind of damages done to the tissues by insulin, and

> the injected

> > kind is a far more powerful damaging agent than the

> endogenous hormone.

> > Blood monitoring on a zero-carb regime will quickly confirm the

> stability of

> > blood glucose.

> >

> > You don't need all these insulin producing carbs from veggies

> and fruit and

> > grains and legumes. Meat and organs have all the nutrients

> (the true

> > nutrients) you need.

> >

> > Dean

> >

>