Work on our loved ones' acceptance of death

[Guest guest]

Dear Lynn and All,

Thank you for your posts these helped looked at my parents and my difficulties again

My Mum is not well and Dad had told me that they are not certain of what time there is left he implies maybe a few years. We have struggled for a number of years in our relationship ( mainly since a I had some counselling ) As I have said in a previous posting because of what I said to him before christmas he has told me not to contact him until he says so .

One of the things I said then was that i wanted to see him sometime over the christmas period and wanted myself and my children to be able to speak to him and mum on Christmas day , neither of which he wanted preferring to see us a couple of months later. In trying to explain why i wanted to see and speak to them more I said that I did not know how much longer we would have, or more precisely whether they would both be here in 15 years time. This was one of the things he later found disgusting and why I now haven't spoken to him or mum for 5 months!!!

In your postings I saw my issue of how can they love me if they don't want to see me they say they do. And in what you said I am seeing that maybe they do and maybe I can leave the issue of their dying ( or not ) to God and their love to them. Maybe I'll ring them today anyway , for me.

Thank you

Love Rob

Work on our loved ones' acceptance of death

Hi All,As you read this, I invite you to do the work on your mom or your dad or your spouse or your child being willing to let you go because of death, if you would like to do that work. Thanks, Katharine, for being so open about your experience. Much love to you, and even more love for you from me is waiting for me to get over my judgments and mother projection. I'm looking forward to that!I had a reaction, so I did some Work with it. I will trust that my reaction, when Worked on, is useful to put into the light rather than to keep hidden.(Judge your neighbor, write it down)"Do not go gentle into that good night!"Anybody who does not take the attitude of that quote when confronted with death is not living life deeply enough to appreciate its preciousness. Or they are in denial or shock. Or they really are enlightened already. Let me personalize this more, and not impersonalize it like my mom liked to.It was a Thanksgiving vacation the first time I saw my mom after her cancer diagnosis (she was told she had 3-6 months to live, which was off by 7 years (!) as it turned out). My mom was acting like she was fine about going. I believe my mom was out of touch with her love for life and her adult children. I think she had been mildly depressed for a long time, especially once the nest of 5 children was empty. I think she was afraid of life and she had long before solved her unmet needs by getting "beyond" things, getting "beyond" anger, "beyond" being in touch with her needs. (She didnt even let herself get a dog because sometimes she and Dad would be travelling and she didnt want to leave the dog so miserable in the kennel then. She thought it was kinder/safer not to have any needs. This is one of the gifts I inherited that invites me to do the Work.) She had a soft heart but she let it dry out slowly slowly slowlyperhaps because she was afraid of the pain. (I write as if she had a choice!) There wasn't much juice after awhile. She didnt have the kind of support and tools to deal with her feelings that I have. She had different ones, with different solutions. (I was going to do some Work that was personalized to mom?):My mom was not living life deeply enough to appreciate its preciousness. Or she was in denial or shock. Or she was enlightened already. (Try again)My mom was out of touch with her feelings and meaning in her life; otherwise she would have not been quite so accepting of leaving us all behind. (Is it true?) I think so. Can I afford to consider otherwise? Maybe not. What is this story,that someone can be "out of touch" with feelings? Maybe she just usually didnt have those feelings, but occasionally she did, and I like to hope she felt them strongly on those occasions.(Try again. Want to go another level down?)My mom was not quite there for me. (Is it true?) First I wanted her to really listen to her own needs, now I want her to always be there for me!Perhaps I believe if she listened to her needs, she would have wanted to be in relationship with me more, which would have been "there for me". I wanted her to be in relationship with me more, and then I would have been there for her more.? Maybe she was there enough for me until I left for college, and then she stopped being there for me, because she could not sustain intimacy without living with someone, since she didnt have deep enough connection through short conversations over the phone. I went to college;I seized my life and she didnt stop me. She didnt know how to seize her own life, but she made d--- sure not to stop me. But later I sensed something was a little off there; I wanted her to be a little upset about me moving across the country after college. I was hurt and confused that it seemed so easy to let me go. And when she was accepting of the idea of impending death, I was hurt and confused again.And it inspired me to want to accept her death, but with the apparently big difference that I wanted to really feel it, feel the feelings about her death and accept it all. For me, I thought the only way "beyond" losing her was right into it. I have a story that that turned out to be a really tall order.(Was I going to do some Work?) My mom was not quite there for me.(Is it true?) Yes, she was not there for anyone, including herself.(Can you really know that it is true?) No....Are you asking me to get existential with that question? If I do that, if I question my ability to know anything, it is easy to answer the way you want, with a "no". But that tends to leave me floating in space with nothing to hang onto, it leaves me with NOTHING there for me at all.(Can you really know that your mom was not quite there for you? What is your answer if you do not get existential, if you fight the habit you picked up from your mom of not being there for yourself, if you feel your feelings?) Well, I think I referred to this above. It occurs that she tried to be more there for me than she was for herself, by making sure not to stop me when the time was to seize my life. That was her way of being quite there for the "deep" me, I suppose. That was unconditional love?This is weird, because I'm saying the most loving thing she did was to go beyond her personal love for me and unconditionally let me go. I'm back to her story about the best love is impersonal love, and I am not there for that, I am kicking and screamingly not there. I want love to be as personal as it can get. When I say she was "there" for me by letting me go,I am still coming up with a mental-dissociation kind of a "no" to "Is it true?".[returning to the Work later]No, when you considered that your mom made d--- sure she didn't stop you from seizing your life, you are saying that deep down she probably did care deeply, enough to not show it, which she thought might make a young graduate feel guilty for going away. Oh.Hmm.OK.And she left room in your life for people who could love you with more juice, more needs, more immediate life. She couldnt relate to you that way but she could allow you to find people who would.Or maybe her life did not revolve around me, maybe she did not know how to help me, and it was a relief to finally be off a hook she had put herself on for 22 years that she hadn't felt up to handling. Maybe after codependently raising 5 kids she was burnt out on needing to be there for us.(Want to try again, this time less literally? Can you really know that your mom was not quite there for you? What is your answer if you do not get existential, if you feel your feelings?) Oh, gosh, of course it is AS true that she was there for me. I feel she always loved me! It's a feeling I have in my chest, it's soft and juicy and warm, I have it either because she loved me or because I loved her or both ( would say, except when we didn't). What more can I ask for? If, in order to "be there" for someone, a person must not have found themselves in emotional states like depression or not allowed themselves to face their own death in the way that comes to them, then who has ever been there for anybody?So the belief I'm getting at is:My mom SHOULD have been there for me. (Is it true?) Ha! Of course not.Turnarounds:No one is there for me. Yes.No one should be there for me. Yes.Everyone is there for me. Yes.I am there for me. OK, I'm working with that one.I am not there for me. OK.I am not there for anyone. Yes.I am there for everyone. Yes? Feels like a stretch.I am not there for everyone. Yes.I am there for someone. When I am.Well, I skipped some of the questions. The turnarounds were freeing, but getting a little existential/dissociated, perhaps because they are so abstract and because I skipped the questions that would have gotten me in touch with pain.It comes that it doesn't matter whether my mom was "there" for me or not, what matters is that now my energy is dwelling on this issue. I suppose this mental place is as fine a place as any (anytime I say "suppose" we know it is only a mental awareness, not internalized) and yet I still do have preferences, and I imagine there are mental places I could be right now that I would prefer. I guess it has been my business to explore some painful feelings that were ignored while having my story about my mom (it is my business to be in her business until I get at my feelings behind my wondering what she thought and felt), and when the feelings have been seen and loved enough, it will be my business to be where I am then. And I enjoy the fact that the Work lets me go on to another tune running in my head and in my heart, and another tune after that, rather than staying on one tune so very long. Actually, rather than staying on one tune so long that then I go to a more painful tune about how I am never going to get over the first tune.I plan to touch on the questions I skipped. Having typed the questions, I am going to take a break from this now, being there for me in gentleness....What do I get from holding this belief that my mom was not there for me?Can you think of one reason to let go of this belief?Can you think of a painfree reason to hold onto the belief? How do I react when I hold this belief? [Ok, it's a day later and here's my first response:] I feel selfpity, I feel alone, I relate to others in the polarity terms of us being there/not being there for each other.Who would I be without this belief? I would be me, being here with me and the world, only and as much as we are being here, but not even focussing on that reality.Turn it around.When I focus on mom not being there for me, I put a wall up against knowing us being there for each other always, alive or dead.But that is way too enlightened for me, that turnaround is not my truth yet. Except it was true enough for me to conceive of it.love, lynn

[Guest guest]

Dear Lynn and all,

Yes , I think it is the " for me " bit that helped me so much. I actually went ahead and rang my parents. Of course there was no reply, ( more work !!!!!). Then yesterday I tried again and Mum answered. I spoke to her and then to Dad. I was able to speak to them without expectations, without resentment. They were both glad to hear from me. I was able to make some amends towards them without attaching to the but you did this and didn,t do that stuff. For months I have not " been able to speak to them" ( years?) now just two weeks after coming across the work I am able to enjoy what I have with them, not have the pain that I have chosen to have for so long and it has all just fallen away. I think it would all have fallen away if they had not wanted to speak to me as well.

I think this is what calls living with the work and its as amazing as doing it.

Love Rob

Re: Work on our loved ones' acceptance of death

Hi Rob, Katharine and All, Rob wrote:>In your postings I saw my issue of how can they love me if they don't want to see me they say >they do. And in what you said I am seeing that maybe they do and maybe I can leave the issue of >their dying ( or not ) to God and their love to them. Maybe I'll ring them today anyway , for me.I'm glad our postings were useful. For me that affirms my connectedness with others, that my experience/Work resonated with someone, on a day that was quite a rollercoaster.You inspire me with your considering what you may or may not do regarding your parents, "for you". Yesterday I was surprised and pleased to find I could behave towards others in a more real way "for me" with some strangers (are they such a "strangers"?, I'll cal them "familiars" perhaps) and I think that could be a babystep to behaving towards my dad in a more real way "for me".Katharine, I loved reading about your medical testing experiences. I was getting medical testing today and noticed my process and the choices I had as to how I wished to relate with some people whose work placed them before my eyes (and in some of my orifices!). It was nice to stay pretty human and to peek at them "through" their professional roles and see some nice humans in there going through a regular day and enjoying a chance to be a little real during it.love, lynn

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

As you read this, I invite you to do the work on your mom or your dad or your

spouse or your child being willing to let you go because of death, if you would

like to do that work.

Thanks, Katharine, for being so open about your experience.  Much love to you,

and even more love for you from me is waiting for me to get over my judgments

and mother projection. I'm looking forward to that!

I had a reaction, so I did some Work with it. I will trust that my reaction,

when Worked on, is useful to put into the light rather than to keep hidden.

(Judge your neighbor, write it down)

" Do not go gentle into that good night! "

Anybody who does not take the attitude of that quote when confronted with death

is not living life deeply enough to appreciate its preciousness.  Or they are in

denial or shock.  Or they really are enlightened already.  

Let me personalize this more, and not impersonalize it like my mom liked to.

It was a Thanksgiving vacation the first time I saw my mom after her cancer

diagnosis (she was told she had 3-6 months to live, which was off by 7 years (!)

as it turned out).  My mom was acting like she was fine about going.  I believe

my mom  was out of touch with her love for life and her adult children.  I think

she had been mildly depressed for a long time, especially once the nest of 5

children was empty.  I think she was afraid of life and she had long before

solved her unmet needs by getting " beyond " things, getting " beyond " anger,

" beyond " being in touch with her needs.

 

(She didnt even let herself get a dog because sometimes she and Dad would be

travelling and she didnt want to leave the dog so miserable in the kennel then.

 She thought it was kinder/safer not to have any needs. This is one of the

gifts I inherited that invites me to do the Work.)  

She had a soft heart but she let  it   dry    out     slowly      slowly        

   slowly

perhaps because she was afraid of the pain. (I write as if she had a choice!)

There wasn't much juice after awhile.

She didnt have the kind of support and tools to deal with her feelings that I

have.  She had different ones, with different solutions.

(I was going to do some Work that was personalized to mom?):

My mom was not living life deeply enough to appreciate its preciousness.  Or she

was in denial or shock.  Or she was enlightened already.

(Try again)

My mom was out of touch with her feelings and meaning in her life; otherwise she

would have not been quite so accepting of leaving us all behind.  

(Is it true?)

I think so. Can I afford to consider otherwise?  Maybe not.  What is this

story,that someone can be " out of touch " with feelings? Maybe she just usually

didnt have those feelings, but occasionally she did, and I like to hope she felt

them strongly on those occasions.

(Try again. Want to go another level down?)

My mom was not quite there for me.  

(Is it true?)  

First I wanted her to really listen to her own needs, now I want her to always

be there for me!

Perhaps I believe if she listened to her needs, she would have wanted to be in

relationship with me more, which would have been " there for me " . I wanted her

to be in relationship with me more, and then I would have been there for her

more.?

Maybe she was there enough for me until I left for college, and then she stopped

being there for me, because she could not sustain intimacy without living with

someone, since she didnt have deep enough connection through short conversations

over the phone.  

I went to college;I seized my life and she didnt stop me.  She didnt know how to

seize her own life, but she made d--- sure not to stop me.    But later I sensed

something was a little off there; I wanted her to be a little upset about me

moving across the country after college.  I was hurt and confused that it seemed

so easy to let me go.  And when she was accepting of the idea of impending

death, I was hurt and confused again.

And it inspired me to want to accept her death,  but with the apparently big

difference that I wanted to really feel it, feel the feelings about her death

and accept it all.  For me, I thought the only way " beyond " losing her was right

into it.  I have a story that that turned out to be a really tall order.

(Was I going to do some Work?)

My mom was not quite there for me.

(Is it true?) Yes, she was not there for anyone, including herself.

(Can you really know that it is true?) No....Are you asking me to get

existential with that question?  If I do that, if I question my ability to know

anything, it is easy to answer the way you want, with a " no " . But that tends

to leave me floating in space with nothing to hang onto, it leaves me with

NOTHING there for me at all.

(Can you really know that your mom was not quite there for you?  What is your

answer if you do not get existential, if you fight the habit you picked up from

your mom of not being there for yourself, if you feel your feelings?)  

Well, I think I referred to this above.  It occurs that she tried to be more

there for me than she was for herself, by making sure not to stop me when the

time was to seize my life.  That was her way of being quite there for the " deep "

me, I suppose.  That was unconditional love?

This is weird, because I'm saying the most loving thing she did was to go beyond

her personal love for me and unconditionally let me go.  I'm back to her story

about the best love is impersonal love, and I am not there for that, I am

kicking and screamingly not there.  I want love to be as personal as it can get.

When I say she was " there " for me by letting me go,I am still coming up with a

mental-dissociation kind of a " no " to " Is it true? " .

[returning to the Work later]

No, when you considered that your mom made d--- sure she didn't stop you from

seizing your life, you are saying that deep down she probably did care deeply,

enough to not show it, which she thought might make a young graduate feel guilty

for going away.

Oh.

Hmm.

OK.

And she left room in your life for people who could love you with more juice,

more needs, more immediate life. She couldnt relate to you that way but she

could allow you to find people who would.

Or maybe her life did not revolve around me, maybe she did not know how to help

me, and it was a relief to finally be off a hook she had put herself on for 22

years that she hadn't felt up to handling. Maybe after codependently raising 5

kids she was burnt out on needing to be there for us.

(Want to try again, this time less literally?  Can you really know that your mom

was not quite there for you?  What is your answer if you do not get existential,

if you feel your feelings?)  

Oh, gosh, of course it is AS true that she was there for me.  I feel she always

loved me! It's a feeling I have in my chest, it's soft and juicy and warm, I

have it either because she loved me or because I loved her or both ( would

say, except when we didn't). What more can I ask for?

If, in order to " be there " for someone, a person must not have found themselves

in emotional states like depression or not allowed themselves to face their own

death in the way that comes to them, then who has ever been there for anybody?

So the belief I'm  getting at is:

My mom SHOULD have been there for me. (Is it true?) Ha! Of course not.

Turnarounds:

No one is there for me. Yes.

No one should be there for me. Yes.

Everyone is there for me.  Yes.

I am there for me. OK, I'm working with that one.

I am not there for me.  OK.

I am not there for anyone.  Yes.

I am there for everyone.  Yes?  Feels like a stretch.

I am not there for everyone.  Yes.

I am there for someone.  When I am.

Well, I skipped some of the questions.  The turnarounds were freeing, but

getting a little existential/dissociated, perhaps because they are so abstract

and because I skipped the questions that would have gotten me in touch with

pain.

It comes that it doesn't matter whether my mom was " there " for me or not, what

matters is that now my energy is dwelling on this issue. I suppose this mental

place is as fine a place as any

(anytime I say " suppose " we know it is only a mental awareness, not

internalized)

and yet I still do have preferences, and I imagine there are mental places I

could be right now that I would prefer. I guess it has been my business to

explore some painful feelings that were ignored while having my story about my

mom

(it is my business to be in her business until I get at my feelings behind my

wondering what she thought and felt),

and when the feelings have been seen and loved enough, it will be my business to

be where I am then. And I enjoy the fact that the Work lets me go on to another

tune running in my head and in my heart, and another tune after that, rather

than staying on one tune so very long. Actually, rather than staying on one tune

so long that then I go to a more painful tune about how I am never going to get

over the first tune.

I plan to touch on the questions I skipped. Having typed the questions, I am

going to take a break from this now, being there for me in gentleness....

What do I get from holding this belief that my mom was not there for me?

Can you think of one reason to let go of this belief?

Can you think of a painfree reason to hold onto the belief?

How do I react when I hold this belief?

[Ok, it's a day later and here's my first response:] I feel selfpity, I feel

alone, I relate to others in the polarity terms of us being there/not being

there for each other.

Who would I be without this belief? I would be me, being here with me and the

world, only and as much as we are being here, but not even focussing on that

reality.

Turn it around.

When I focus on mom not being there for me, I put a wall up against knowing us

being there for each other always, alive or dead.

But that is way too enlightened for me, that turnaround is not my truth yet.

Except it was true enough for me to conceive of it.

love, lynn

[Guest guest]

Hi Rob, Katharine and All,

Rob wrote:

>In your postings I saw my issue of how can they love me if they don't want to

see me they say >they do. And in what you said I am seeing that maybe they do

and maybe I can leave the issue of >their dying ( or not ) to God and their love

to them. Maybe I'll ring them today anyway , for me.

I'm glad our postings were useful. For me that affirms my connectedness with

others, that my experience/Work resonated with someone, on a day that was quite

a rollercoaster.

You inspire me with your considering what you may or may not do regarding your

parents, " for you " . Yesterday I was surprised and pleased to find I could

behave towards others in a more real way " for me " with some strangers (are they

such a " strangers " ?, I'll cal them " familiars " perhaps) and I think that could

be a babystep to behaving towards my dad in a more real way " for me " .

Katharine, I loved reading about your medical testing experiences. I was

getting medical testing today and noticed my process and the choices I had as to

how I wished to relate with some people whose work placed them before my eyes

(and in some of my orifices!). It was nice to stay pretty human and to peek at

them " through " their professional roles and see some nice humans in there going

through a regular day and enjoying a chance to be a little real during it.

love, lynn