Guest guest Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Very very interesting! I found some info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selegiline with a good appendix > > Mexican sourced, Liguid Cyprenil, actually. > > Very strong stuff. My whole life I've always been very sensitive to > " activating " like caffeine etc. > This stuff is quite potent, but as reported, tolerance builds up after > a few weeks. I'm 44 so I started out at 1mg every other day, when that > was well tolerated moved up to 1mg a day. The effects build over time > and after a week or so, I had to drop back. Even 1 mg every other day > was too much, now I cycle .5mg for 2 days then 1 or 2 days off. Its > just too speedy for me. I can still sleep but I'm hyper activated and > no one in my life feels like keeping up... > I also take Cordyceps once a day and DHEA 25mg. all together, I'm > quite pleased with the results. Before I was having to up the dosage > of viagra from 25mg to 50 or 75 and that wasn't exactly a solution. > Now I get occasional morning erections, can have sex without viagra > (sometimes better than others) and sex daily and twice daily on the > weekends. > > My observations: > Moderate anti depressive effect > Clear increase in libido > mild decrease in apetite > > Most interesting is this: After taking Prozac for 1.5 years, I > developed a strong reaction to high carb meals in which I would yawn > for 90 minues afterwards and feel very drowsy. After discontinuing the > prozac, it reduced some but never went away (after 5-6 years)and I had > to start avoiding carbs at lunch to maintain my productivity at work > in the afternoon. > Cyprenil seems to reverse this. Which leads to my question: > > Deprenyl etc is described as having a non-reversable effect. In gen'l > terms I understand this (thats why we're all here...) but nowhere can > I find any detailed explanation about what exactly is non reversible. > > Your thoughts? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Hi Danny, Where did you read that the effects of depreny are permanent? I've never seen that before. I can relate to the carb thing.. Vornan > > Mexican sourced, Liguid Cyprenil, actually. > > Very strong stuff. My whole life I've always been very sensitive to > " activating " like caffeine etc. > This stuff is quite potent, but as reported, tolerance builds up after > a few weeks. I'm 44 so I started out at 1mg every other day, when that > was well tolerated moved up to 1mg a day. The effects build over time > and after a week or so, I had to drop back. Even 1 mg every other day > was too much, now I cycle .5mg for 2 days then 1 or 2 days off. Its > just too speedy for me. I can still sleep but I'm hyper activated and > no one in my life feels like keeping up... > I also take Cordyceps once a day and DHEA 25mg. all together, I'm > quite pleased with the results. Before I was having to up the dosage > of viagra from 25mg to 50 or 75 and that wasn't exactly a solution. > Now I get occasional morning erections, can have sex without viagra > (sometimes better than others) and sex daily and twice daily on the > weekends. > > My observations: > Moderate anti depressive effect > Clear increase in libido > mild decrease in apetite > > Most interesting is this: After taking Prozac for 1.5 years, I > developed a strong reaction to high carb meals in which I would yawn > for 90 minues afterwards and feel very drowsy. After discontinuing the > prozac, it reduced some but never went away (after 5-6 years)and I had > to start avoiding carbs at lunch to maintain my productivity at work > in the afternoon. > Cyprenil seems to reverse this. Which leads to my question: > > Deprenyl etc is described as having a non-reversable effect. In gen'l > terms I understand this (thats why we're all here...) but nowhere can > I find any detailed explanation about what exactly is non reversible. > > Your thoughts? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 , I have read a lot about this med. Again it is supposed to be one of the few good medications. Some of the science looks sound. But who knows. I have ordered a couple of products from International Antiaging Systems (IAS). About a year and a half ago I ordered reboxetine and tianeptine. Reboxetine is a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor and tianeptine is a serotonin reuptake enhancer, which is basically the opposite of an SSRI. I tried the reboxetine but didn't have the nerve to try the tianeptine. I wanted to order some selegiline (deprenyl) but never got around to it. Last year I tried lamictal and it nearly killed me. It left my nervous system feeling hypersensitive. Much like the elavil did. I'm just pretty gunshy about meds right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Vornan, After clicking on this link, i am VERY curious about amygdalin. What do you know about it? I read the post from the group/you and was interested to find out more. http://www.antiaging-systems.com/apruses/deprenylcyprenil.htm i have read the negative stuff about it not being a cancer cure, the whole cyanide poisoning, etc etc. I realize the manufacturer is only going to state the " wonderful " effects, but they all claim to be helpful for the various post ssri symptoms i suffer. I also know i probably shouldnt go for this type of advertising, its probably a crock, but i am hopeful there is something to this. Not only do i have the same sexual side effects--low sensitivity in my vagina, lower libido, difficulty orgasming, but also have arthritis (im only 37), and fibromyalgia, rls and myoclonic jerks at night. It just sound like a cure all, but the thing is it seems specifically to cure the very things i suffer from. Dopamine levels being low, possible hormone problems, etc etc. You are so intelligent, i thought i would ask you. Thanks for your time! lisa --- " Vornan-19 (moderator) " wrote: > Hi Danny, > > Where did you read that the effects of depreny are > permanent? I've > never seen that before. > > I can relate to the carb thing.. > > Vornan > > > > > > Mexican sourced, Liguid Cyprenil, actually. > > > > Very strong stuff. My whole life I've always been > very sensitive to > > " activating " like caffeine etc. > > This stuff is quite potent, but as reported, > tolerance builds up > after > > a few weeks. I'm 44 so I started out at 1mg every > other day, when > that > > was well tolerated moved up to 1mg a day. The > effects build over > time > > and after a week or so, I had to drop back. Even 1 > mg every other > day > > was too much, now I cycle .5mg for 2 days then 1 > or 2 days off. Its > > just too speedy for me. I can still sleep but I'm > hyper activated > and > > no one in my life feels like keeping up... > > I also take Cordyceps once a day and DHEA 25mg. > all together, I'm > > quite pleased with the results. Before I was > having to up the dosage > > of viagra from 25mg to 50 or 75 and that wasn't > exactly a solution. > > Now I get occasional morning erections, can have > sex without viagra > > (sometimes better than others) and sex daily and > twice daily on the > > weekends. > > > > My observations: > > Moderate anti depressive effect > > Clear increase in libido > > mild decrease in apetite > > > > Most interesting is this: After taking Prozac for > 1.5 years, I > > developed a strong reaction to high carb meals in > which I would yawn > > for 90 minues afterwards and feel very drowsy. > After discontinuing > the > > prozac, it reduced some but never went away (after > 5-6 years)and I > had > > to start avoiding carbs at lunch to maintain my > productivity at work > > in the afternoon. > > Cyprenil seems to reverse this. Which leads to my > question: > > > > Deprenyl etc is described as having a > non-reversable effect. In > gen'l > > terms I understand this (thats why we're all > here...) but nowhere > can > > I find any detailed explanation about what exactly > is non > reversible. > > > > Your thoughts? > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Get your email and see which of your friends are online - Right on the New Yahoo.com (http://www.yahoo.com/preview) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Thanks, . It's nice to be appreciated :-) Deprenyl does seem to be one of the safest ways to increase dopamine levels. Velden got good results with it at 1.25 mg/day, fixing some of the problems you mention (in combination with testosterone, though I think she's off both now). Some people don't get such good results, but it could be a dosage issue. Might be worth a shot. Did you try switching from tramadol to something else? Vornan -- In SSRIsex , lisa hallford wrote: > > Vornan, > > After clicking on this link, i am VERY curious about > amygdalin. What do you know about it? I read the post > from the group/you and was interested to find out > more. > > http://www.antiaging-systems.com/apruses/deprenylcyprenil.htm > > i have read the negative stuff about it not being a > cancer cure, the whole cyanide poisoning, etc etc. I > realize the manufacturer is only going to state the > " wonderful " effects, but they all claim to be helpful > for the various post ssri symptoms i suffer. I also > know i probably shouldnt go for this type of > advertising, its probably a crock, but i am hopeful > there is something to this. Not only do i have the > same sexual side effects--low sensitivity in my > vagina, lower libido, difficulty orgasming, but also > have arthritis (im only 37), and fibromyalgia, rls and > myoclonic jerks at night. It just sound like a cure > all, but the thing is it seems specifically to cure > the very things i suffer from. Dopamine levels being > low, possible hormone problems, etc etc. > You are so intelligent, i thought i would ask you. > Thanks for your time! > > lisa > > --- " Vornan-19 (moderator) " > wrote: > > > Hi Danny, > > > > Where did you read that the effects of depreny are > > permanent? I've > > never seen that before. > > > > I can relate to the carb thing.. > > > > Vornan > > > > > > > > > > Mexican sourced, Liguid Cyprenil, actually. > > > > > > Very strong stuff. My whole life I've always been > > very sensitive to > > > " activating " like caffeine etc. > > > This stuff is quite potent, but as reported, > > tolerance builds up > > after > > > a few weeks. I'm 44 so I started out at 1mg every > > other day, when > > that > > > was well tolerated moved up to 1mg a day. The > > effects build over > > time > > > and after a week or so, I had to drop back. Even 1 > > mg every other > > day > > > was too much, now I cycle .5mg for 2 days then 1 > > or 2 days off. Its > > > just too speedy for me. I can still sleep but I'm > > hyper activated > > and > > > no one in my life feels like keeping up... > > > I also take Cordyceps once a day and DHEA 25mg. > > all together, I'm > > > quite pleased with the results. Before I was > > having to up the dosage > > > of viagra from 25mg to 50 or 75 and that wasn't > > exactly a solution. > > > Now I get occasional morning erections, can have > > sex without viagra > > > (sometimes better than others) and sex daily and > > twice daily on the > > > weekends. > > > > > > My observations: > > > Moderate anti depressive effect > > > Clear increase in libido > > > mild decrease in apetite > > > > > > Most interesting is this: After taking Prozac for > > 1.5 years, I > > > developed a strong reaction to high carb meals in > > which I would yawn > > > for 90 minues afterwards and feel very drowsy. > > After discontinuing > > the > > > prozac, it reduced some but never went away (after > > 5-6 years)and I > > had > > > to start avoiding carbs at lunch to maintain my > > productivity at work > > > in the afternoon. > > > Cyprenil seems to reverse this. Which leads to my > > question: > > > > > > Deprenyl etc is described as having a > > non-reversable effect. In > > gen'l > > > terms I understand this (thats why we're all > > here...) but nowhere > > can > > > I find any detailed explanation about what exactly > > is non > > reversible. > > > > > > Your thoughts? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________ > Get your email and see which of your friends are online - Right on the New Yahoo.com > (http://www.yahoo.com/preview) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Hi , As Vornan said, I had some positive results with Deprenyl. I took it for about four months at 1,25 mg a day-- I cut the lowest dose tablet in quarters. I had some return of nipple sensation, a bit of an imporvement in orgasm quality, but not much else w/re: to sexuality ( I have had nearly numb genitals, no libido, difficulty with arousal, variable but usually low intensity orgasm for ten years after stopping Prozac.) I also felt mentally sharper. My GP was willing to prescribe deprenyl after I brought her information about it and a rationale for why I thought it would help my symptoms. I discontinued it becasue it eventually seemed to be producing pretty severe insomnia-- I have had lasting sleep problems post Prozac and was afraid of making that worse. The improved nipple sensation seems to have endured after stopping. Velden > > > > > > > > Mexican sourced, Liguid Cyprenil, actually. > > > > > > > > Very strong stuff. My whole life I've always been > > > very sensitive to > > > > " activating " like caffeine etc. > > > > This stuff is quite potent, but as reported, > > > tolerance builds up > > > after > > > > a few weeks. I'm 44 so I started out at 1mg every > > > other day, when > > > that > > > > was well tolerated moved up to 1mg a day. The > > > effects build over > > > time > > > > and after a week or so, I had to drop back. Even 1 > > > mg every other > > > day > > > > was too much, now I cycle .5mg for 2 days then 1 > > > or 2 days off. Its > > > > just too speedy for me. I can still sleep but I'm > > > hyper activated > > > and > > > > no one in my life feels like keeping up... > > > > I also take Cordyceps once a day and DHEA 25mg. > > > all together, I'm > > > > quite pleased with the results. Before I was > > > having to up the dosage > > > > of viagra from 25mg to 50 or 75 and that wasn't > > > exactly a solution. > > > > Now I get occasional morning erections, can have > > > sex without viagra > > > > (sometimes better than others) and sex daily and > > > twice daily on the > > > > weekends. > > > > > > > > My observations: > > > > Moderate anti depressive effect > > > > Clear increase in libido > > > > mild decrease in apetite > > > > > > > > Most interesting is this: After taking Prozac for > > > 1.5 years, I > > > > developed a strong reaction to high carb meals in > > > which I would yawn > > > > for 90 minues afterwards and feel very drowsy. > > > After discontinuing > > > the > > > > prozac, it reduced some but never went away (after > > > 5-6 years)and I > > > had > > > > to start avoiding carbs at lunch to maintain my > > > productivity at work > > > > in the afternoon. > > > > Cyprenil seems to reverse this. Which leads to my > > > question: > > > > > > > > Deprenyl etc is described as having a > > > non-reversable effect. In > > > gen'l > > > > terms I understand this (thats why we're all > > > here...) but nowhere > > > can > > > > I find any detailed explanation about what exactly > > > is non > > > reversible. > > > > > > > > Your thoughts? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ _ > ______________ > > Get your email and see which of your friends are online - Right on > the New Yahoo.com > > (http://www.yahoo.com/preview) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 > > Hi Danny, > > Where did you read that the effects of depreny are permanent? I've > never seen that before. Read here: http://tinyurl.com/y84l86 Does this mean that using deprenyl permanently raises Nor-ep and Dopamine levels beyond treatment? BTW, please note that I think the herbs and the fact that I've always been smoked some grass moderately are part of the equation here and that its not just the Selegeline, but that the selegeline was the missing piece of the puzzle... > I can relate to the carb thing.. Its well known that high carb meals tend to boost serotonin in the brain, and SSRIs are thought to permanently down regulate neuronal uptake of same. Since Serotonin is supposed to be calming, I always took this to be a symtptom of the permanent down-reg, soimplistic as my analysis might be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 Hi vornan and velden, Thanks for the info. Insomnia is something i suffer from as it is, i dont know whether to go ahead and try it or DHEA, both sound like they MIGHT have a positive effect. Apricot seeds SOUND natural, although i dont want to give myself cyanide poisoning. I have read very different things on wikipedia when i enter any of the many names deprnyl has, some negative some positive. Vornan, I am slowly weaning myself off of the Ultracet because i have the tingly lips/fingers and dizziness the second i am late on a dose. When i was first put on it years ago i took 8- 500 mg tabs a day. I am down to 3 now, it still helps my arthritis and i am having a LITTLE less trouble with the sexual side effects. I still have them, though. The most recent being the numbness most people here describe. My libido is OK, but i think that is mostly due to the newness of my current relationship (1 year). It is still VERY difficult to achieve orgasm without bizarre thoughts. told me that is probably due to low dopamine levels. I also suffer from the myoclonic jerks and rls at night. I am so freaked out about taking ANY medicine now that i cant bear the thought of going to the doctor, who spends about 1 minute listening to my problems and just wants to throw any medicine at all at me, most of which i am too scared to take. Especially the neuroleptics--(zyprexa) and others i have tried with many strange effects (neurontin), even Vioxx when i started having the arthritis. I had hallucinations the first time i took ONE celexa. I am med shy for obvious reasons. I also have the type (like most of them are) who act like you are crazy when you research ANYTHING on the internet and go into detail about the problems you have. I think most doctors only listen to about the first 3 symptoms you say--after that i think they all think we have somataform disorders or hypochondria. Its dumb, like any of us would choose to be this way. Thank you so much for all the help and the time you spend helping us all in this group. MAYBE, someday, somehow, dateline or someone will break this story. I dont know, the pharmaceutical companies would go broke from all the class action lawsuits. Hopefully, research will help us get out brain chemistry ironed out and we can all experience a more normal existance. Your drive to help is appreciated more than you will ever know. lisa --- velden22 wrote: > Hi , > As Vornan said, I had some positive results with > Deprenyl. I took it > for about four months at 1,25 mg a day-- I cut the > lowest dose > tablet in quarters. I had some return of nipple > sensation, a bit of > an imporvement in orgasm quality, but not much else > w/re: to > sexuality ( I have had nearly numb genitals, no > libido, difficulty > with arousal, variable but usually low intensity > orgasm for ten > years after stopping Prozac.) I also felt mentally > sharper. My GP > was willing to prescribe deprenyl after I brought > her information > about it and a rationale for why I thought it would > help my > symptoms. I discontinued it becasue it eventually > seemed to be > producing pretty severe insomnia-- I have had > lasting sleep > problems post Prozac and was afraid of making that > worse. The > improved nipple sensation seems to have endured > after stopping. > Velden > > > > > > > > > > > > Mexican sourced, Liguid Cyprenil, actually. > > > > > > > > > > Very strong stuff. My whole life I've always > been > > > > very sensitive to > > > > > " activating " like caffeine etc. > > > > > This stuff is quite potent, but as reported, > > > > tolerance builds up > > > > after > > > > > a few weeks. I'm 44 so I started out at 1mg > every > > > > other day, when > > > > that > > > > > was well tolerated moved up to 1mg a day. > The > > > > effects build over > > > > time > > > > > and after a week or so, I had to drop back. > Even 1 > > > > mg every other > > > > day > > > > > was too much, now I cycle .5mg for 2 days > then 1 > > > > or 2 days off. Its > > > > > just too speedy for me. I can still sleep > but I'm > > > > hyper activated > > > > and > > > > > no one in my life feels like keeping up... > > > > > I also take Cordyceps once a day and DHEA > 25mg. > > > > all together, I'm > > > > > quite pleased with the results. Before I was > > > > having to up the dosage > > > > > of viagra from 25mg to 50 or 75 and that > wasn't > > > > exactly a solution. > > > > > Now I get occasional morning erections, can > have > > > > sex without viagra > > > > > (sometimes better than others) and sex daily > and > > > > twice daily on the > > > > > weekends. > > > > > > > > > > My observations: > > > > > Moderate anti depressive effect > > > > > Clear increase in libido > > > > > mild decrease in apetite > > > > > > > > > > Most interesting is this: After taking > Prozac for > > > > 1.5 years, I > > > > > developed a strong reaction to high carb > meals in > > > > which I would yawn > > > > > for 90 minues afterwards and feel very > drowsy. > > > > After discontinuing > > > > the > > > > > prozac, it reduced some but never went away > (after > > > > 5-6 years)and I > > > > had > > > > > to start avoiding carbs at lunch to maintain > my > > > > productivity at work > > > > > in the afternoon. > > > > > Cyprenil seems to reverse this. Which leads > to my > > > > question: > > > > > > > > > > Deprenyl etc is described as having a > > > > non-reversable effect. In > > > > gen'l > > > > > terms I understand this (thats why we're all > > > > here...) but nowhere > > > > can > > > > > I find any detailed explanation about what > exactly > > > > is non > === message truncated === ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business (http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 > Apricot seeds SOUND natural, although > i dont want to give myself cyanide poisoning. I have > read very different things on wikipedia when i enter > any of the many names deprnyl has, some negative some > positive. > Am I missing something or are you confusing apricot pits (and the Laetrile cancer treatment made from them and available for sale online along side of selegeline) with selegeline?? IOW, are you saying that you can treat PSSD with laetrile? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 OK, now I understand what you mean. The " irreversible " effect is the action of selegiline on the monoamine oxidases. Selegiline irreversibly inactivates them, thereby increasing the levels of monoamines (dopamine etc.). But monoamine oxidase is continuously being made by the body, so once you stop taking the selegiline, there will be new molecules of monoamine oxidase that are no longer inhibited. I hope that makes sense. It's like if you set up a dam to block the flow of a river - you will get a build up of water, and it is irreversible until you break the dam (i.e. stop taking the drug). That's what the irreversibility refers to. But that doesn't mean of course, that selegiline does *not* have permanent effects by changing gene expression. Only that the irreversibilty they are referring to is the emzyme reaction. Vornan > > > > Hi Danny, > > > > Where did you read that the effects of depreny are permanent? I've > > never seen that before. > > Read here: http://tinyurl.com/y84l86 > Does this mean that using deprenyl permanently raises Nor-ep and > Dopamine levels beyond treatment? > > BTW, please note that I think the herbs and the fact that I've always > been smoked some grass moderately are part of the equation here and > that its not just the Selegeline, but that the selegeline was the > missing piece of the puzzle... > > > I can relate to the carb thing.. > > Its well known that high carb meals tend to boost serotonin in the > brain, and SSRIs are thought to permanently down regulate neuronal > uptake of same. Since Serotonin is supposed to be calming, I always > took this to be a symtptom of the permanent down-reg, soimplistic as > my analysis might be. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 So Vornan, speaking strictly on ssri's, is there any permenant damage done by these drugs say to your gene expression? Basically, is there any permeamnet damage done to the brain that you know of, caused by ssri's? --- " Vornan-19 (moderator) " wrote: > OK, now I understand what you mean. The > " irreversible " effect is the > action of selegiline on the monoamine oxidases. > Selegiline > irreversibly inactivates them, thereby increasing > the levels of > monoamines (dopamine etc.). But monoamine oxidase > is continuously > being made by the body, so once you stop taking the > selegiline, there > will be new molecules of monoamine oxidase that are > no longer > inhibited. I hope that makes sense. > It's like if you set up a dam to block the flow of a > river - you will > get a build up of water, and it is irreversible > until you break the > dam (i.e. stop taking the drug). That's what the > irreversibility > refers to. But that doesn't mean of course, that > selegiline does > *not* have permanent effects by changing gene > expression. Only that > the irreversibilty they are referring to is the > emzyme reaction. > > Vornan > > > > > > > > Hi Danny, > > > > > > Where did you read that the effects of depreny > are permanent? > I've > > > never seen that before. > > > > Read here: http://tinyurl.com/y84l86 > > Does this mean that using deprenyl permanently > raises Nor-ep and > > Dopamine levels beyond treatment? > > > > BTW, please note that I think the herbs and the > fact that I've > always > > been smoked some grass moderately are part of the > equation here and > > that its not just the Selegeline, but that the > selegeline was the > > missing piece of the puzzle... > > > > > I can relate to the carb thing.. > > > > Its well known that high carb meals tend to boost > serotonin in the > > brain, and SSRIs are thought to permanently down > regulate neuronal > > uptake of same. Since Serotonin is supposed to be > calming, I always > > took this to be a symtptom of the permanent > down-reg, soimplistic as > > my analysis might be. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ __________ Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 Hi , Sorry to hear you're still struggling to get off the ultracet. I can imagine that's very difficult. Did you ask your doc about any other type of pain killer you could take that doesn't raise serotonin levels? However, I'm not sure I trust him because I can't imagine why he would prescribe you a neuroleptic. That would just make the restless legs and myoclonic jerks worse. If anything you could try a dopamine agonist like requip or mirapex which work the opposite way to neuroleptics (i.e .mimic the effects of dopamine.). They are the standard treatment for those symptoms (though obviously have their own side effects). Thanks very much for your compliments. It feels good that you appreciate my efforts. Vornan > > > > > > > > > > > > Mexican sourced, Liguid Cyprenil, actually. > > > > > > > > > > > > Very strong stuff. My whole life I've always > > been > > > > > very sensitive to > > > > > > " activating " like caffeine etc. > > > > > > This stuff is quite potent, but as reported, > > > > > tolerance builds up > > > > > after > > > > > > a few weeks. I'm 44 so I started out at 1mg > > every > > > > > other day, when > > > > > that > > > > > > was well tolerated moved up to 1mg a day. > > The > > > > > effects build over > > > > > time > > > > > > and after a week or so, I had to drop back. > > Even 1 > > > > > mg every other > > > > > day > > > > > > was too much, now I cycle .5mg for 2 days > > then 1 > > > > > or 2 days off. Its > > > > > > just too speedy for me. I can still sleep > > but I'm > > > > > hyper activated > > > > > and > > > > > > no one in my life feels like keeping up... > > > > > > I also take Cordyceps once a day and DHEA > > 25mg. > > > > > all together, I'm > > > > > > quite pleased with the results. Before I was > > > > > having to up the dosage > > > > > > of viagra from 25mg to 50 or 75 and that > > wasn't > > > > > exactly a solution. > > > > > > Now I get occasional morning erections, can > > have > > > > > sex without viagra > > > > > > (sometimes better than others) and sex daily > > and > > > > > twice daily on the > > > > > > weekends. > > > > > > > > > > > > My observations: > > > > > > Moderate anti depressive effect > > > > > > Clear increase in libido > > > > > > mild decrease in apetite > > > > > > > > > > > > Most interesting is this: After taking > > Prozac for > > > > > 1.5 years, I > > > > > > developed a strong reaction to high carb > > meals in > > > > > which I would yawn > > > > > > for 90 minues afterwards and feel very > > drowsy. > > > > > After discontinuing > > > > > the > > > > > > prozac, it reduced some but never went away > > (after > > > > > 5-6 years)and I > > > > > had > > > > > > to start avoiding carbs at lunch to maintain > > my > > > > > productivity at work > > > > > > in the afternoon. > > > > > > Cyprenil seems to reverse this. Which leads > > to my > > > > > question: > > > > > > > > > > > > Deprenyl etc is described as having a > > > > > non-reversable effect. In > > > > > gen'l > > > > > > terms I understand this (thats why we're all > > > > > here...) but nowhere > > > > > can > > > > > > I find any detailed explanation about what > > exactly > > > > > is non > > > === message truncated === > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________ > Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business > (http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 Hi , Yes, I think so. Though I'm reluctant to use the word " permanent " since gene expression changes are theoretically reversible. I prefer " persistent " ! Here's a good article on epigenetics (the science of gene expression): http://www.ehponline.org/members/2006/114-3/focus.html There's also a good article in this month's " Discover " magazine. Vornan > > > > > > > > Hi Danny, > > > > > > > > Where did you read that the effects of depreny > > are permanent? > > I've > > > > never seen that before. > > > > > > Read here: http://tinyurl.com/y84l86 > > > Does this mean that using deprenyl permanently > > raises Nor-ep and > > > Dopamine levels beyond treatment? > > > > > > BTW, please note that I think the herbs and the > > fact that I've > > always > > > been smoked some grass moderately are part of the > > equation here and > > > that its not just the Selegeline, but that the > > selegeline was the > > > missing piece of the puzzle... > > > > > > > I can relate to the carb thing.. > > > > > > Its well known that high carb meals tend to boost > > serotonin in the > > > brain, and SSRIs are thought to permanently down > > regulate neuronal > > > uptake of same. Since Serotonin is supposed to be > > calming, I always > > > took this to be a symtptom of the permanent > > down-reg, soimplistic as > > > my analysis might be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ____________________ > Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. > (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 Vornan, Thank you so much for your concern and all the great information. It is partially my own fault i am not on anything for the PLMD. I dont even remember WHY the doctor gave me Zyprexa, to be quite honest. I havent been to him for the myoclonic jerks and RLS, so its my own fault i am not on anything to help. The reason is because of hating to go to the doctor and hating to even think about trying a new med. I am just so worried i will be screwed up more in the end. I have good intentions in my mind, i THINK about going to the doctor, i talk to my friend about it alot, i just cant seem to get the gumption to do it. It all goes back to when i first went to the doctor for all the strange symptoms, the anxiety/panic attacks, the joint pain, the soreness and stiffness. I also got very ill from a tick bite, which i think was misdiagnosed as rashless rocky mountain spotted fever--i actually think it was lyme or ehrlichiosis--western blots and ELISA tests are sometimes wrong. ANYHOO, long story short, after the paxil for anxiety debacle, going through many SSRI's, going through all the benzodiazapines, all the blood tests, all the bills and little relief, i am just tired of it all and scared to take new pills. I live in an area of the country that has meth problems, so most doctors arent hip to prescribe Xanax or Oxycontin. I think there are much better pain relievers, but i dont want to even ask, for fear of being " flagged " as someone who might be a pill abuser, etc etc. so there it is, i am med shy and doctor shy. BUT, i am trying to stop the tramadol, but SLOWLY. I hate the withdrawal effects so much, it makes me think of the cold turkey/paxil cessitation, which was a NIGHTMARE. I am sorry to go on and on--i want the same thing everyone else wants here, a magic pill that just resets everything to normal, like before SSRI's. I know that is highly unlikely. It always seems like there is something just out of reach, that would easily explain what it would take to reverse all of these effects. I dont even know what to blame sometimes. Some days I blame paxil, some days i blame persistent lyme effects, some days it tramadol. It sucks, thanks for letting me vent. lisa --- " Vornan-19 (moderator) " wrote: > Hi , > > Sorry to hear you're still struggling to get off the > ultracet. I can > imagine that's very difficult. Did you ask your doc > about any other > type of pain killer you could take that doesn't > raise serotonin > levels? > However, I'm not sure I trust him because I can't > imagine why he > would prescribe you a neuroleptic. That would just > make the restless > legs and myoclonic jerks worse. If anything you > could try a dopamine > agonist like requip or mirapex which work the > opposite way to > neuroleptics (i.e .mimic the effects of dopamine.). > They are the > standard treatment for those symptoms (though > obviously have their > own side effects). > Thanks very much for your compliments. It feels good > that you > appreciate my efforts. > > Vornan > > > > > > > > > > > > Vornan, > > > > > > > > > > After clicking on this link, i am VERY > curious > > > about > > > > > amygdalin. What do you know about it? I read > the > > > post > > > > > from the group/you and was interested to > find > > > out > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.antiaging-systems.com/apruses/deprenylcyprenil.htm > > > > > > > > > > i have read the negative stuff about it not > > > being a > > > > > cancer cure, the whole cyanide poisoning, > etc > > > etc. I > > > > > realize the manufacturer is only going to > state > > > the > > > > > " wonderful " effects, but they all claim to > be > > > helpful > > > > > for the various post ssri symptoms i suffer. > I > > > also > > > > > know i probably shouldnt go for this type of > === message truncated === ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business (http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 Danny, OK, well i got excited about selegeline and clicked on this link... http://www.antiaging-systems.com/apruses/deprenylcyprenil.htm it says Deprenyl tablets are selegiline hydrochloride the link also calls deprenyl Cyprenil, Selegiline in citrate form since it said cyprenil in the article, i searched cyprenil and got to this mexican pharmacy at this link http://www.cytopharmaonline.com/ which also calls cyprenil amygdalin. All the while, i am trying to find these on wikipedia. Most arent there, including cyprenil. i found amygdalin there with all the cancer hoax type stuff. Now i am really confused. Wikipedia doesnt have all of these, the first website called deprenyl cyprenil in liquid form, cyprenil comes up as amygdalin, i just have no idea now, i am so confused. I dont have a clue now if these are related or what!!!! Can someone out there find out if these are close or not?? Are they related? here are just some of the names i have found referring to each other---Deprenyl / Selegiline / Jumex / Selepryl / Eldepryl / Cyprenil Amygdalin/Laetrile i cant tell. i feel dumb. are these one letter off or spelled wrong or WHAT?? They do sound similar in composition--they both affect the brain, i just dont know! lisa ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 thanks for the information Vornan, but one question..When you say reversiable, what do you mean by that? Do you mean that with time naturally our bodies always regress in some way to its natural state or something? thanks for your help. --- " Vornan-19 (moderator) " wrote: > Hi , > > Yes, I think so. Though I'm reluctant to use the > word " permanent " > since gene expression changes are theoretically > reversible. I > prefer " persistent " ! > > Here's a good article on epigenetics (the science of > gene expression): > > http://www.ehponline.org/members/2006/114-3/focus.html > > There's also a good article in this month's > " Discover " magazine. > > Vornan > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Danny, > > > > > > > > > > Where did you read that the effects of > depreny > > > are permanent? > > > I've > > > > > never seen that before. > > > > > > > > Read here: http://tinyurl.com/y84l86 > > > > Does this mean that using deprenyl permanently > > > raises Nor-ep and > > > > Dopamine levels beyond treatment? > > > > > > > > BTW, please note that I think the herbs and > the > > > fact that I've > > > always > > > > been smoked some grass moderately are part of > the > > > equation here and > > > > that its not just the Selegeline, but that the > > > selegeline was the > > > > missing piece of the puzzle... > > > > > > > > > I can relate to the carb thing.. > > > > > > > > Its well known that high carb meals tend to > boost > > > serotonin in the > > > > brain, and SSRIs are thought to permanently > down > > > regulate neuronal > > > > uptake of same. Since Serotonin is supposed to > be > > > calming, I always > > > > took this to be a symtptom of the permanent > > > down-reg, soimplistic as > > > > my analysis might be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ____________________ > > Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more > powerful email and > get things done faster. > > (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta) > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 There are homeostatic mechanisms in the brain that try to keep things stable, and I think for the majority of people the sexual side effects of SSRIs are reversible. For others they reverse very slowly or not at all. There must be some block in the reversibility of gene expression changes in the latter group. Though I can't tell you exactly what it is. Though I imagine what when we do, it will be easy to fix. I just hope it doesn't take too long to figure it out. V > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Danny, > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did you read that the effects of > > depreny > > > > are permanent? > > > > I've > > > > > > never seen that before. > > > > > > > > > > Read here: http://tinyurl.com/y84l86 > > > > > Does this mean that using deprenyl permanently > > > > raises Nor-ep and > > > > > Dopamine levels beyond treatment? > > > > > > > > > > BTW, please note that I think the herbs and > > the > > > > fact that I've > > > > always > > > > > been smoked some grass moderately are part of > > the > > > > equation here and > > > > > that its not just the Selegeline, but that the > > > > selegeline was the > > > > > missing piece of the puzzle... > > > > > > > > > > > I can relate to the carb thing.. > > > > > > > > > > Its well known that high carb meals tend to > > boost > > > > serotonin in the > > > > > brain, and SSRIs are thought to permanently > > down > > > > regulate neuronal > > > > > uptake of same. Since Serotonin is supposed to > > be > > > > calming, I always > > > > > took this to be a symtptom of the permanent > > > > down-reg, soimplistic as > > > > > my analysis might be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > ____________________ > > > Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more > > powerful email and > > get things done faster. > > > (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________ > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail > (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 , It wouldn't surprise me if you had a persistent Lyme infection. Have you had all of the tests? V > > > > > > > > > > > > Vornan, > > > > > > > > > > > > After clicking on this link, i am VERY > > curious > > > > about > > > > > > amygdalin. What do you know about it? I read > > the > > > > post > > > > > > from the group/you and was interested to > > find > > > > out > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.antiaging-systems.com/apruses/deprenylcyprenil.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > i have read the negative stuff about it not > > > > being a > > > > > > cancer cure, the whole cyanide poisoning, > > etc > > > > etc. I > > > > > > realize the manufacturer is only going to > > state > > > > the > > > > > > " wonderful " effects, but they all claim to > > be > > > > helpful > > > > > > for the various post ssri symptoms i suffer. > > I > > > > also > > > > > > know i probably shouldnt go for this type of > > > === message truncated === > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________ > Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business > (http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 The derenyl from antiaging systems is most likely real (also known as Jumex,Selepryl, Eldepryl, Cyprenil etc.). But the cyprenil from Mexico is *laetrile*. It has got nothing to do with deprenyl but just has the same name. Don't confuse them! They have very different properties. I can't imagine that laetrile could help PSSD, but deprenyl might for some people (though I would not take it with tramadol). In fact it's best to consult your doc before taking anything, especially if ordered online. V > > Danny, > > OK, well i got excited about selegeline and clicked > on this link... > > http://www.antiaging-systems.com/apruses/deprenylcyprenil.htm > > > it says Deprenyl tablets are selegiline hydrochloride > the link also calls deprenyl Cyprenil, Selegiline in > citrate form > > since it said cyprenil in the article, i searched > cyprenil and got to this mexican pharmacy at this link > > http://www.cytopharmaonline.com/ > > which also calls cyprenil amygdalin. All the while, i > am trying to find these on wikipedia. Most arent > there, including cyprenil. i found amygdalin there > with all the cancer hoax type stuff. Now i am really > confused. Wikipedia doesnt have all of these, the > first website called deprenyl cyprenil in liquid form, > cyprenil comes up as amygdalin, i just have no idea > now, i am so confused. I dont have a clue now if these > are related or what!!!! Can someone out there find out > if these are close or not?? Are they related? > > here are just some of the names i have found referring > to each other---Deprenyl / Selegiline / Jumex / > Selepryl / Eldepryl / Cyprenil > Amygdalin/Laetrile > > i cant tell. i feel dumb. are these one letter off or > spelled wrong or WHAT?? They do sound similar in > composition--they both affect the brain, i just dont > know! > lisa > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________ > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail > (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Vornan, I think i have persistent lyme as well. This is not something my doctor believes can happen, however. He said the tetracycline should have taken care of everything, the rest is just all in my head. Of course i think he is wrong. Do you have any suggestions on what i should do? When doing research on this topic, it doesnt seem that there are many doctors out there willing to believe, or are willing to prescribe antibiotics for such a long time. I can say, without a doubt, that every time i take a round of antibiotics for anything else, i feel crappy for a few days (i think its a herxheimer reaction) and then almost all of my pain and arthritis subsides (some arthritis pain, just a bit) for a period of a couple of weeks. The last time (a couple of months ago) was oral antibiotics for a high pitched ear whine i had for a couple of months. The antibiotics did not help the whine, but my arthritis sure felt better for a little while. It was GREAT. I would love to see a doctor for this, but i cant find any in my area (SW Missouri) who believes in and treats persistent lyme. Do you know of any? Do you think a new western blot or ELISA or maybe a PCR would catch persistent lyme? The spirochete bacteria that causes this is strong and hard to kill, i think it hides in my body somehow, it always comes back and seems to wax and wane according to hormones/time of the month. I know i can get fish penicillin from the feed supply store, but i am chicken to try and self treat. I have considered it MANY MANY times, yet i havent gone that route. I thought about it when i travelled to mexico and belize last year, i didnt then either. I dont know how harmful it is to take antibiotics persistently. I know when i read the symptoms for persistent lyme i have almost all of them. thanks for any help! --- " Vornan-19 (moderator) " wrote: > , > > It wouldn't surprise me if you had a persistent Lyme > infection. Have > you had all of the tests? > > V > > > > > > Vornan, > > > > I am slowly weaning myself off of the > Ultracet > > > > because i have the tingly lips/fingers and > > > dizziness > > > > the second i am late on a dose. When i was > first > > > put > > > > on it years ago i took 8- 500 mg tabs a day. I > am > > > down > > > > to 3 now, it still helps my arthritis and i am > > > having > > > > a LITTLE less trouble with the sexual side > > > effects. I > > > > still have them, though. The most recent being > the > > > > numbness most people here describe. My libido > is > > > OK, > > > > but i think that is mostly due to the newness > of > > > my > > > > current relationship (1 year). It is still > VERY > > > > difficult to achieve orgasm without bizarre > > > thoughts. > > > > told me that is probably due to low > dopamine > > > > levels. I also suffer from the myoclonic jerks > and > > > rls > > > > at night. I am so freaked out about taking ANY > > > > medicine now that i cant bear the thought of > going > > > to > > > > the doctor, who spends about 1 minute > listening to > > > my > > > > problems and just wants to throw any medicine > at > > > all > > > > at me, most of which i am too scared to take. > > > > Especially the neuroleptics--(zyprexa) and > others > > > i > > > > have tried with many strange effects > (neurontin), > > > even > > > > Vioxx when i started having the arthritis. I > had > > > > hallucinations the first time i took ONE > celexa. I > > > am > > > > med shy for obvious reasons. I also have the > type > > > > (like most of them are) who act like you are > crazy > > > > when you research ANYTHING on the internet and > go > > > into > > > > detail about the problems you have. I think > most > > > > doctors only listen to about the first 3 > symptoms > > > you > > > > say--after that i think they all think we have > > > > somataform disorders or hypochondria. Its > dumb, > > > like > > > > any of us would choose to be this way. > > > > Thank you so much for all the help and the > time > > > you > > > > spend helping us all in this group. MAYBE, > > > someday, > > > > somehow, dateline or someone will break this > > > story. I > === message truncated === ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 This guy is supposed to be an expert at treating chronic Lyme infections (scroll down until you see the articles on Lyme disease). Though I can't vouch for him personally, it might be worth having a phone consult. http://www.personalconsult.com/pubindex.html#lyme_disease Vornan > > > > > Vornan, > > > > > I am slowly weaning myself off of the > > Ultracet > > > > > because i have the tingly lips/fingers and > > > > dizziness > > > > > the second i am late on a dose. When i was > > first > > > > put > > > > > on it years ago i took 8- 500 mg tabs a day. I > > am > > > > down > > > > > to 3 now, it still helps my arthritis and i am > > > > having > > > > > a LITTLE less trouble with the sexual side > > > > effects. I > > > > > still have them, though. The most recent being > > the > > > > > numbness most people here describe. My libido > > is > > > > OK, > > > > > but i think that is mostly due to the newness > > of > > > > my > > > > > current relationship (1 year). It is still > > VERY > > > > > difficult to achieve orgasm without bizarre > > > > thoughts. > > > > > told me that is probably due to low > > dopamine > > > > > levels. I also suffer from the myoclonic jerks > > and > > > > rls > > > > > at night. I am so freaked out about taking ANY > > > > > medicine now that i cant bear the thought of > > going > > > > to > > > > > the doctor, who spends about 1 minute > > listening to > > > > my > > > > > problems and just wants to throw any medicine > > at > > > > all > > > > > at me, most of which i am too scared to take. > > > > > Especially the neuroleptics--(zyprexa) and > > others > > > > i > > > > > have tried with many strange effects > > (neurontin), > > > > even > > > > > Vioxx when i started having the arthritis. I > > had > > > > > hallucinations the first time i took ONE > > celexa. I > > > > am > > > > > med shy for obvious reasons. I also have the > > type > > > > > (like most of them are) who act like you are > > crazy > > > > > when you research ANYTHING on the internet and > > go > > > > into > > > > > detail about the problems you have. I think > > most > > > > > doctors only listen to about the first 3 > > symptoms > > > > you > > > > > say--after that i think they all think we have > > > > > somataform disorders or hypochondria. Its > > dumb, > > > > like > > > > > any of us would choose to be this way. > > > > > Thank you so much for all the help and the > > time > > > > you > > > > > spend helping us all in this group. MAYBE, > > > > someday, > > > > > somehow, dateline or someone will break this > > > > story. I > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________ > Yahoo! Music Unlimited > Access over 1 million songs. > http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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