Re: 6 weeks of Deprnyl-Status report

[Guest guest]

Very very interesting! I found some info here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selegiline with a good appendix

>

> Mexican sourced, Liguid Cyprenil, actually.

>

> Very strong stuff. My whole life I've always been very sensitive to

> " activating " like caffeine etc.

> This stuff is quite potent, but as reported, tolerance builds up after

> a few weeks. I'm 44 so I started out at 1mg every other day, when that

> was well tolerated moved up to 1mg a day. The effects build over time

> and after a week or so, I had to drop back. Even 1 mg every other day

> was too much, now I cycle .5mg for 2 days then 1 or 2 days off. Its

> just too speedy for me. I can still sleep but I'm hyper activated and

> no one in my life feels like keeping up...

> I also take Cordyceps once a day and DHEA 25mg. all together, I'm

> quite pleased with the results. Before I was having to up the dosage

> of viagra from 25mg to 50 or 75 and that wasn't exactly a solution.

> Now I get occasional morning erections, can have sex without viagra

> (sometimes better than others) and sex daily and twice daily on the

> weekends.

>

> My observations:

> Moderate anti depressive effect

> Clear increase in libido

> mild decrease in apetite

>

> Most interesting is this: After taking Prozac for 1.5 years, I

> developed a strong reaction to high carb meals in which I would yawn

> for 90 minues afterwards and feel very drowsy. After discontinuing the

> prozac, it reduced some but never went away (after 5-6 years)and I had

> to start avoiding carbs at lunch to maintain my productivity at work

> in the afternoon.

> Cyprenil seems to reverse this. Which leads to my question:

>

> Deprenyl etc is described as having a non-reversable effect. In gen'l

> terms I understand this (thats why we're all here...) but nowhere can

> I find any detailed explanation about what exactly is non reversible.

>

> Your thoughts?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Danny,

Where did you read that the effects of depreny are permanent? I've

never seen that before.

I can relate to the carb thing..

Vornan

>

> Mexican sourced, Liguid Cyprenil, actually.

>

> Very strong stuff. My whole life I've always been very sensitive to

> " activating " like caffeine etc.

> This stuff is quite potent, but as reported, tolerance builds up

after

> a few weeks. I'm 44 so I started out at 1mg every other day, when

that

> was well tolerated moved up to 1mg a day. The effects build over

time

> and after a week or so, I had to drop back. Even 1 mg every other

day

> was too much, now I cycle .5mg for 2 days then 1 or 2 days off. Its

> just too speedy for me. I can still sleep but I'm hyper activated

and

> no one in my life feels like keeping up...

> I also take Cordyceps once a day and DHEA 25mg. all together, I'm

> quite pleased with the results. Before I was having to up the dosage

> of viagra from 25mg to 50 or 75 and that wasn't exactly a solution.

> Now I get occasional morning erections, can have sex without viagra

> (sometimes better than others) and sex daily and twice daily on the

> weekends.

>

> My observations:

> Moderate anti depressive effect

> Clear increase in libido

> mild decrease in apetite

>

> Most interesting is this: After taking Prozac for 1.5 years, I

> developed a strong reaction to high carb meals in which I would yawn

> for 90 minues afterwards and feel very drowsy. After discontinuing

the

> prozac, it reduced some but never went away (after 5-6 years)and I

had

> to start avoiding carbs at lunch to maintain my productivity at work

> in the afternoon.

> Cyprenil seems to reverse this. Which leads to my question:

>

> Deprenyl etc is described as having a non-reversable effect. In

gen'l

> terms I understand this (thats why we're all here...) but nowhere

can

> I find any detailed explanation about what exactly is non

reversible.

>

> Your thoughts?

>

[Guest guest]

,

I have read a lot about this med. Again it is supposed to be one of the few good medications. Some of the science looks sound. But who knows. I have ordered a couple of products from International Antiaging Systems (IAS). About a year and a half ago I ordered reboxetine and tianeptine. Reboxetine is a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor and tianeptine is a serotonin reuptake enhancer, which is basically the opposite of an SSRI. I tried the reboxetine but didn't have the nerve to try the tianeptine. I wanted to order some selegiline (deprenyl) but never got around to it. Last year I tried lamictal and it nearly killed me. It left my nervous system feeling hypersensitive. Much like the elavil did. I'm just pretty gunshy about meds right now.

[Guest guest]

Vornan,

After clicking on this link, i am VERY curious about

amygdalin. What do you know about it? I read the post

from the group/you and was interested to find out

more.

http://www.antiaging-systems.com/apruses/deprenylcyprenil.htm

i have read the negative stuff about it not being a

cancer cure, the whole cyanide poisoning, etc etc. I

realize the manufacturer is only going to state the

" wonderful " effects, but they all claim to be helpful

for the various post ssri symptoms i suffer. I also

know i probably shouldnt go for this type of

advertising, its probably a crock, but i am hopeful

there is something to this. Not only do i have the

same sexual side effects--low sensitivity in my

vagina, lower libido, difficulty orgasming, but also

have arthritis (im only 37), and fibromyalgia, rls and

myoclonic jerks at night. It just sound like a cure

all, but the thing is it seems specifically to cure

the very things i suffer from. Dopamine levels being

low, possible hormone problems, etc etc.

You are so intelligent, i thought i would ask you.

Thanks for your time!

lisa

--- " Vornan-19 (moderator) "

wrote:

> Hi Danny,

>

> Where did you read that the effects of depreny are

> permanent? I've

> never seen that before.

>

> I can relate to the carb thing..

>

> Vornan

>

>

> >

> > Mexican sourced, Liguid Cyprenil, actually.

> >

> > Very strong stuff. My whole life I've always been

> very sensitive to

> > " activating " like caffeine etc.

> > This stuff is quite potent, but as reported,

> tolerance builds up

> after

> > a few weeks. I'm 44 so I started out at 1mg every

> other day, when

> that

> > was well tolerated moved up to 1mg a day. The

> effects build over

> time

> > and after a week or so, I had to drop back. Even 1

> mg every other

> day

> > was too much, now I cycle .5mg for 2 days then 1

> or 2 days off. Its

> > just too speedy for me. I can still sleep but I'm

> hyper activated

> and

> > no one in my life feels like keeping up...

> > I also take Cordyceps once a day and DHEA 25mg.

> all together, I'm

> > quite pleased with the results. Before I was

> having to up the dosage

> > of viagra from 25mg to 50 or 75 and that wasn't

> exactly a solution.

> > Now I get occasional morning erections, can have

> sex without viagra

> > (sometimes better than others) and sex daily and

> twice daily on the

> > weekends.

> >

> > My observations:

> > Moderate anti depressive effect

> > Clear increase in libido

> > mild decrease in apetite

> >

> > Most interesting is this: After taking Prozac for

> 1.5 years, I

> > developed a strong reaction to high carb meals in

> which I would yawn

> > for 90 minues afterwards and feel very drowsy.

> After discontinuing

> the

> > prozac, it reduced some but never went away (after

> 5-6 years)and I

> had

> > to start avoiding carbs at lunch to maintain my

> productivity at work

> > in the afternoon.

> > Cyprenil seems to reverse this. Which leads to my

> question:

> >

> > Deprenyl etc is described as having a

> non-reversable effect. In

> gen'l

> > terms I understand this (thats why we're all

> here...) but nowhere

> can

> > I find any detailed explanation about what exactly

> is non

> reversible.

> >

> > Your thoughts?

> >

>

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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[Guest guest]

Thanks, . It's nice to be appreciated :-)

Deprenyl does seem to be one of the safest ways to increase dopamine

levels. Velden got good results with it at 1.25 mg/day, fixing some

of the problems you mention (in combination with testosterone, though

I think she's off both now).

Some people don't get such good results, but it could be a dosage

issue. Might be worth a shot.

Did you try switching from tramadol to something else?

Vornan

-- In SSRIsex , lisa hallford wrote:

>

> Vornan,

>

> After clicking on this link, i am VERY curious about

> amygdalin. What do you know about it? I read the post

> from the group/you and was interested to find out

> more.

>

> http://www.antiaging-systems.com/apruses/deprenylcyprenil.htm

>

> i have read the negative stuff about it not being a

> cancer cure, the whole cyanide poisoning, etc etc. I

> realize the manufacturer is only going to state the

> " wonderful " effects, but they all claim to be helpful

> for the various post ssri symptoms i suffer. I also

> know i probably shouldnt go for this type of

> advertising, its probably a crock, but i am hopeful

> there is something to this. Not only do i have the

> same sexual side effects--low sensitivity in my

> vagina, lower libido, difficulty orgasming, but also

> have arthritis (im only 37), and fibromyalgia, rls and

> myoclonic jerks at night. It just sound like a cure

> all, but the thing is it seems specifically to cure

> the very things i suffer from. Dopamine levels being

> low, possible hormone problems, etc etc.

> You are so intelligent, i thought i would ask you.

> Thanks for your time!

>

> lisa

>

> --- " Vornan-19 (moderator) "

> wrote:

>

> > Hi Danny,

> >

> > Where did you read that the effects of depreny are

> > permanent? I've

> > never seen that before.

> >

> > I can relate to the carb thing..

> >

> > Vornan

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Mexican sourced, Liguid Cyprenil, actually.

> > >

> > > Very strong stuff. My whole life I've always been

> > very sensitive to

> > > " activating " like caffeine etc.

> > > This stuff is quite potent, but as reported,

> > tolerance builds up

> > after

> > > a few weeks. I'm 44 so I started out at 1mg every

> > other day, when

> > that

> > > was well tolerated moved up to 1mg a day. The

> > effects build over

> > time

> > > and after a week or so, I had to drop back. Even 1

> > mg every other

> > day

> > > was too much, now I cycle .5mg for 2 days then 1

> > or 2 days off. Its

> > > just too speedy for me. I can still sleep but I'm

> > hyper activated

> > and

> > > no one in my life feels like keeping up...

> > > I also take Cordyceps once a day and DHEA 25mg.

> > all together, I'm

> > > quite pleased with the results. Before I was

> > having to up the dosage

> > > of viagra from 25mg to 50 or 75 and that wasn't

> > exactly a solution.

> > > Now I get occasional morning erections, can have

> > sex without viagra

> > > (sometimes better than others) and sex daily and

> > twice daily on the

> > > weekends.

> > >

> > > My observations:

> > > Moderate anti depressive effect

> > > Clear increase in libido

> > > mild decrease in apetite

> > >

> > > Most interesting is this: After taking Prozac for

> > 1.5 years, I

> > > developed a strong reaction to high carb meals in

> > which I would yawn

> > > for 90 minues afterwards and feel very drowsy.

> > After discontinuing

> > the

> > > prozac, it reduced some but never went away (after

> > 5-6 years)and I

> > had

> > > to start avoiding carbs at lunch to maintain my

> > productivity at work

> > > in the afternoon.

> > > Cyprenil seems to reverse this. Which leads to my

> > question:

> > >

> > > Deprenyl etc is described as having a

> > non-reversable effect. In

> > gen'l

> > > terms I understand this (thats why we're all

> > here...) but nowhere

> > can

> > > I find any detailed explanation about what exactly

> > is non

> > reversible.

> > >

> > > Your thoughts?

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________

> Get your email and see which of your friends are online - Right on

the New Yahoo.com

> (http://www.yahoo.com/preview)

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

As Vornan said, I had some positive results with Deprenyl. I took it

for about four months at 1,25 mg a day-- I cut the lowest dose

tablet in quarters. I had some return of nipple sensation, a bit of

an imporvement in orgasm quality, but not much else w/re: to

sexuality ( I have had nearly numb genitals, no libido, difficulty

with arousal, variable but usually low intensity orgasm for ten

years after stopping Prozac.) I also felt mentally sharper. My GP

was willing to prescribe deprenyl after I brought her information

about it and a rationale for why I thought it would help my

symptoms. I discontinued it becasue it eventually seemed to be

producing pretty severe insomnia-- I have had lasting sleep

problems post Prozac and was afraid of making that worse. The

improved nipple sensation seems to have endured after stopping.

Velden

> > > >

> > > > Mexican sourced, Liguid Cyprenil, actually.

> > > >

> > > > Very strong stuff. My whole life I've always been

> > > very sensitive to

> > > > " activating " like caffeine etc.

> > > > This stuff is quite potent, but as reported,

> > > tolerance builds up

> > > after

> > > > a few weeks. I'm 44 so I started out at 1mg every

> > > other day, when

> > > that

> > > > was well tolerated moved up to 1mg a day. The

> > > effects build over

> > > time

> > > > and after a week or so, I had to drop back. Even 1

> > > mg every other

> > > day

> > > > was too much, now I cycle .5mg for 2 days then 1

> > > or 2 days off. Its

> > > > just too speedy for me. I can still sleep but I'm

> > > hyper activated

> > > and

> > > > no one in my life feels like keeping up...

> > > > I also take Cordyceps once a day and DHEA 25mg.

> > > all together, I'm

> > > > quite pleased with the results. Before I was

> > > having to up the dosage

> > > > of viagra from 25mg to 50 or 75 and that wasn't

> > > exactly a solution.

> > > > Now I get occasional morning erections, can have

> > > sex without viagra

> > > > (sometimes better than others) and sex daily and

> > > twice daily on the

> > > > weekends.

> > > >

> > > > My observations:

> > > > Moderate anti depressive effect

> > > > Clear increase in libido

> > > > mild decrease in apetite

> > > >

> > > > Most interesting is this: After taking Prozac for

> > > 1.5 years, I

> > > > developed a strong reaction to high carb meals in

> > > which I would yawn

> > > > for 90 minues afterwards and feel very drowsy.

> > > After discontinuing

> > > the

> > > > prozac, it reduced some but never went away (after

> > > 5-6 years)and I

> > > had

> > > > to start avoiding carbs at lunch to maintain my

> > > productivity at work

> > > > in the afternoon.

> > > > Cyprenil seems to reverse this. Which leads to my

> > > question:

> > > >

> > > > Deprenyl etc is described as having a

> > > non-reversable effect. In

> > > gen'l

> > > > terms I understand this (thats why we're all

> > > here...) but nowhere

> > > can

> > > > I find any detailed explanation about what exactly

> > > is non

> > > reversible.

> > > >

> > > > Your thoughts?

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

_____________________________________________________________________

_

> ______________

> > Get your email and see which of your friends are online - Right

on

> the New Yahoo.com

> > (http://www.yahoo.com/preview)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Danny,

>

> Where did you read that the effects of depreny are permanent? I've

> never seen that before.

Read here: http://tinyurl.com/y84l86

Does this mean that using deprenyl permanently raises Nor-ep and

Dopamine levels beyond treatment?

BTW, please note that I think the herbs and the fact that I've always

been smoked some grass moderately are part of the equation here and

that its not just the Selegeline, but that the selegeline was the

missing piece of the puzzle...

> I can relate to the carb thing..

Its well known that high carb meals tend to boost serotonin in the

brain, and SSRIs are thought to permanently down regulate neuronal

uptake of same. Since Serotonin is supposed to be calming, I always

took this to be a symtptom of the permanent down-reg, soimplistic as

my analysis might be.

[Guest guest]

Hi vornan and velden,

Thanks for the info. Insomnia is something i suffer

from as it is, i dont know whether to go ahead and try

it or DHEA, both sound like they MIGHT have a

positive effect. Apricot seeds SOUND natural, although

i dont want to give myself cyanide poisoning. I have

read very different things on wikipedia when i enter

any of the many names deprnyl has, some negative some

positive.

Vornan,

I am slowly weaning myself off of the Ultracet

because i have the tingly lips/fingers and dizziness

the second i am late on a dose. When i was first put

on it years ago i took 8- 500 mg tabs a day. I am down

to 3 now, it still helps my arthritis and i am having

a LITTLE less trouble with the sexual side effects. I

still have them, though. The most recent being the

numbness most people here describe. My libido is OK,

but i think that is mostly due to the newness of my

current relationship (1 year). It is still VERY

difficult to achieve orgasm without bizarre thoughts.

told me that is probably due to low dopamine

levels. I also suffer from the myoclonic jerks and rls

at night. I am so freaked out about taking ANY

medicine now that i cant bear the thought of going to

the doctor, who spends about 1 minute listening to my

problems and just wants to throw any medicine at all

at me, most of which i am too scared to take.

Especially the neuroleptics--(zyprexa) and others i

have tried with many strange effects (neurontin), even

Vioxx when i started having the arthritis. I had

hallucinations the first time i took ONE celexa. I am

med shy for obvious reasons. I also have the type

(like most of them are) who act like you are crazy

when you research ANYTHING on the internet and go into

detail about the problems you have. I think most

doctors only listen to about the first 3 symptoms you

say--after that i think they all think we have

somataform disorders or hypochondria. Its dumb, like

any of us would choose to be this way.

Thank you so much for all the help and the time you

spend helping us all in this group. MAYBE, someday,

somehow, dateline or someone will break this story. I

dont know, the pharmaceutical companies would go broke

from all the class action lawsuits. Hopefully,

research will help us get out brain chemistry ironed

out and we can all experience a more normal existance.

Your drive to help is appreciated more than you will

ever know.

lisa

--- velden22 wrote:

> Hi ,

> As Vornan said, I had some positive results with

> Deprenyl. I took it

> for about four months at 1,25 mg a day-- I cut the

> lowest dose

> tablet in quarters. I had some return of nipple

> sensation, a bit of

> an imporvement in orgasm quality, but not much else

> w/re: to

> sexuality ( I have had nearly numb genitals, no

> libido, difficulty

> with arousal, variable but usually low intensity

> orgasm for ten

> years after stopping Prozac.) I also felt mentally

> sharper. My GP

> was willing to prescribe deprenyl after I brought

> her information

> about it and a rationale for why I thought it would

> help my

> symptoms. I discontinued it becasue it eventually

> seemed to be

> producing pretty severe insomnia-- I have had

> lasting sleep

> problems post Prozac and was afraid of making that

> worse. The

> improved nipple sensation seems to have endured

> after stopping.

> Velden

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > Mexican sourced, Liguid Cyprenil, actually.

> > > > >

> > > > > Very strong stuff. My whole life I've always

> been

> > > > very sensitive to

> > > > > " activating " like caffeine etc.

> > > > > This stuff is quite potent, but as reported,

> > > > tolerance builds up

> > > > after

> > > > > a few weeks. I'm 44 so I started out at 1mg

> every

> > > > other day, when

> > > > that

> > > > > was well tolerated moved up to 1mg a day.

> The

> > > > effects build over

> > > > time

> > > > > and after a week or so, I had to drop back.

> Even 1

> > > > mg every other

> > > > day

> > > > > was too much, now I cycle .5mg for 2 days

> then 1

> > > > or 2 days off. Its

> > > > > just too speedy for me. I can still sleep

> but I'm

> > > > hyper activated

> > > > and

> > > > > no one in my life feels like keeping up...

> > > > > I also take Cordyceps once a day and DHEA

> 25mg.

> > > > all together, I'm

> > > > > quite pleased with the results. Before I was

> > > > having to up the dosage

> > > > > of viagra from 25mg to 50 or 75 and that

> wasn't

> > > > exactly a solution.

> > > > > Now I get occasional morning erections, can

> have

> > > > sex without viagra

> > > > > (sometimes better than others) and sex daily

> and

> > > > twice daily on the

> > > > > weekends.

> > > > >

> > > > > My observations:

> > > > > Moderate anti depressive effect

> > > > > Clear increase in libido

> > > > > mild decrease in apetite

> > > > >

> > > > > Most interesting is this: After taking

> Prozac for

> > > > 1.5 years, I

> > > > > developed a strong reaction to high carb

> meals in

> > > > which I would yawn

> > > > > for 90 minues afterwards and feel very

> drowsy.

> > > > After discontinuing

> > > > the

> > > > > prozac, it reduced some but never went away

> (after

> > > > 5-6 years)and I

> > > > had

> > > > > to start avoiding carbs at lunch to maintain

> my

> > > > productivity at work

> > > > > in the afternoon.

> > > > > Cyprenil seems to reverse this. Which leads

> to my

> > > > question:

> > > > >

> > > > > Deprenyl etc is described as having a

> > > > non-reversable effect. In

> > > > gen'l

> > > > > terms I understand this (thats why we're all

> > > > here...) but nowhere

> > > > can

> > > > > I find any detailed explanation about what

> exactly

> > > > is non

>

=== message truncated ===

________________________________________________________________________________\

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[Guest guest]

> Apricot seeds SOUND natural, although

> i dont want to give myself cyanide poisoning. I have

> read very different things on wikipedia when i enter

> any of the many names deprnyl has, some negative some

> positive.

>

Am I missing something or are you confusing apricot pits (and the

Laetrile cancer treatment made from them and available for sale online

along side of selegeline) with selegeline??

IOW, are you saying that you can treat PSSD with laetrile?

[Guest guest]

OK, now I understand what you mean. The " irreversible " effect is the

action of selegiline on the monoamine oxidases. Selegiline

irreversibly inactivates them, thereby increasing the levels of

monoamines (dopamine etc.). But monoamine oxidase is continuously

being made by the body, so once you stop taking the selegiline, there

will be new molecules of monoamine oxidase that are no longer

inhibited. I hope that makes sense.

It's like if you set up a dam to block the flow of a river - you will

get a build up of water, and it is irreversible until you break the

dam (i.e. stop taking the drug). That's what the irreversibility

refers to. But that doesn't mean of course, that selegiline does

*not* have permanent effects by changing gene expression. Only that

the irreversibilty they are referring to is the emzyme reaction.

Vornan

> >

> > Hi Danny,

> >

> > Where did you read that the effects of depreny are permanent?

I've

> > never seen that before.

>

> Read here: http://tinyurl.com/y84l86

> Does this mean that using deprenyl permanently raises Nor-ep and

> Dopamine levels beyond treatment?

>

> BTW, please note that I think the herbs and the fact that I've

always

> been smoked some grass moderately are part of the equation here and

> that its not just the Selegeline, but that the selegeline was the

> missing piece of the puzzle...

>

> > I can relate to the carb thing..

>

> Its well known that high carb meals tend to boost serotonin in the

> brain, and SSRIs are thought to permanently down regulate neuronal

> uptake of same. Since Serotonin is supposed to be calming, I always

> took this to be a symtptom of the permanent down-reg, soimplistic as

> my analysis might be.

>

[Guest guest]

So Vornan, speaking strictly on ssri's, is there any

permenant damage done by these drugs say to your gene

expression? Basically, is there any permeamnet damage

done to the brain that you know of, caused by ssri's?

--- " Vornan-19 (moderator) "

wrote:

> OK, now I understand what you mean. The

> " irreversible " effect is the

> action of selegiline on the monoamine oxidases.

> Selegiline

> irreversibly inactivates them, thereby increasing

> the levels of

> monoamines (dopamine etc.). But monoamine oxidase

> is continuously

> being made by the body, so once you stop taking the

> selegiline, there

> will be new molecules of monoamine oxidase that are

> no longer

> inhibited. I hope that makes sense.

> It's like if you set up a dam to block the flow of a

> river - you will

> get a build up of water, and it is irreversible

> until you break the

> dam (i.e. stop taking the drug). That's what the

> irreversibility

> refers to. But that doesn't mean of course, that

> selegiline does

> *not* have permanent effects by changing gene

> expression. Only that

> the irreversibilty they are referring to is the

> emzyme reaction.

>

> Vornan

>

>

> > >

> > > Hi Danny,

> > >

> > > Where did you read that the effects of depreny

> are permanent?

> I've

> > > never seen that before.

> >

> > Read here: http://tinyurl.com/y84l86

> > Does this mean that using deprenyl permanently

> raises Nor-ep and

> > Dopamine levels beyond treatment?

> >

> > BTW, please note that I think the herbs and the

> fact that I've

> always

> > been smoked some grass moderately are part of the

> equation here and

> > that its not just the Selegeline, but that the

> selegeline was the

> > missing piece of the puzzle...

> >

> > > I can relate to the carb thing..

> >

> > Its well known that high carb meals tend to boost

> serotonin in the

> > brain, and SSRIs are thought to permanently down

> regulate neuronal

> > uptake of same. Since Serotonin is supposed to be

> calming, I always

> > took this to be a symtptom of the permanent

> down-reg, soimplistic as

> > my analysis might be.

> >

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Sorry to hear you're still struggling to get off the ultracet. I can

imagine that's very difficult. Did you ask your doc about any other

type of pain killer you could take that doesn't raise serotonin

levels?

However, I'm not sure I trust him because I can't imagine why he

would prescribe you a neuroleptic. That would just make the restless

legs and myoclonic jerks worse. If anything you could try a dopamine

agonist like requip or mirapex which work the opposite way to

neuroleptics (i.e .mimic the effects of dopamine.). They are the

standard treatment for those symptoms (though obviously have their

own side effects).

Thanks very much for your compliments. It feels good that you

appreciate my efforts.

Vornan

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Mexican sourced, Liguid Cyprenil, actually.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Very strong stuff. My whole life I've always

> > been

> > > > > very sensitive to

> > > > > > " activating " like caffeine etc.

> > > > > > This stuff is quite potent, but as reported,

> > > > > tolerance builds up

> > > > > after

> > > > > > a few weeks. I'm 44 so I started out at 1mg

> > every

> > > > > other day, when

> > > > > that

> > > > > > was well tolerated moved up to 1mg a day.

> > The

> > > > > effects build over

> > > > > time

> > > > > > and after a week or so, I had to drop back.

> > Even 1

> > > > > mg every other

> > > > > day

> > > > > > was too much, now I cycle .5mg for 2 days

> > then 1

> > > > > or 2 days off. Its

> > > > > > just too speedy for me. I can still sleep

> > but I'm

> > > > > hyper activated

> > > > > and

> > > > > > no one in my life feels like keeping up...

> > > > > > I also take Cordyceps once a day and DHEA

> > 25mg.

> > > > > all together, I'm

> > > > > > quite pleased with the results. Before I was

> > > > > having to up the dosage

> > > > > > of viagra from 25mg to 50 or 75 and that

> > wasn't

> > > > > exactly a solution.

> > > > > > Now I get occasional morning erections, can

> > have

> > > > > sex without viagra

> > > > > > (sometimes better than others) and sex daily

> > and

> > > > > twice daily on the

> > > > > > weekends.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My observations:

> > > > > > Moderate anti depressive effect

> > > > > > Clear increase in libido

> > > > > > mild decrease in apetite

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Most interesting is this: After taking

> > Prozac for

> > > > > 1.5 years, I

> > > > > > developed a strong reaction to high carb

> > meals in

> > > > > which I would yawn

> > > > > > for 90 minues afterwards and feel very

> > drowsy.

> > > > > After discontinuing

> > > > > the

> > > > > > prozac, it reduced some but never went away

> > (after

> > > > > 5-6 years)and I

> > > > > had

> > > > > > to start avoiding carbs at lunch to maintain

> > my

> > > > > productivity at work

> > > > > > in the afternoon.

> > > > > > Cyprenil seems to reverse this. Which leads

> > to my

> > > > > question:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Deprenyl etc is described as having a

> > > > > non-reversable effect. In

> > > > > gen'l

> > > > > > terms I understand this (thats why we're all

> > > > > here...) but nowhere

> > > > > can

> > > > > > I find any detailed explanation about what

> > exactly

> > > > > is non

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________

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>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Yes, I think so. Though I'm reluctant to use the word " permanent "

since gene expression changes are theoretically reversible. I

prefer " persistent " !

Here's a good article on epigenetics (the science of gene expression):

http://www.ehponline.org/members/2006/114-3/focus.html

There's also a good article in this month's " Discover " magazine.

Vornan

> > > >

> > > > Hi Danny,

> > > >

> > > > Where did you read that the effects of depreny

> > are permanent?

> > I've

> > > > never seen that before.

> > >

> > > Read here: http://tinyurl.com/y84l86

> > > Does this mean that using deprenyl permanently

> > raises Nor-ep and

> > > Dopamine levels beyond treatment?

> > >

> > > BTW, please note that I think the herbs and the

> > fact that I've

> > always

> > > been smoked some grass moderately are part of the

> > equation here and

> > > that its not just the Selegeline, but that the

> > selegeline was the

> > > missing piece of the puzzle...

> > >

> > > > I can relate to the carb thing..

> > >

> > > Its well known that high carb meals tend to boost

> > serotonin in the

> > > brain, and SSRIs are thought to permanently down

> > regulate neuronal

> > > uptake of same. Since Serotonin is supposed to be

> > calming, I always

> > > took this to be a symtptom of the permanent

> > down-reg, soimplistic as

> > > my analysis might be.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

____________________

> Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and

get things done faster.

> (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta)

>

[Guest guest]

Vornan,

Thank you so much for your concern and all the great

information. It is partially my own fault i am not on

anything for the PLMD. I dont even remember WHY the

doctor gave me Zyprexa, to be quite honest. I havent

been to him for the myoclonic jerks and RLS, so its my

own fault i am not on anything to help. The reason is

because of hating to go to the doctor and hating to

even think about trying a new med. I am just so

worried i will be screwed up more in the end. I have

good intentions in my mind, i THINK about going to the

doctor, i talk to my friend about it alot, i

just cant seem to get the gumption to do it. It all

goes back to when i first went to the doctor for all

the strange symptoms, the anxiety/panic attacks, the

joint pain, the soreness and stiffness. I also got

very ill from a tick bite, which i think was

misdiagnosed as rashless rocky mountain spotted

fever--i actually think it was lyme or

ehrlichiosis--western blots and ELISA tests are

sometimes wrong. ANYHOO, long story short, after the

paxil for anxiety debacle, going through many SSRI's,

going through all the benzodiazapines, all the blood

tests, all the bills and little relief, i am just

tired of it all and scared to take new pills. I live

in an area of the country that has meth problems, so

most doctors arent hip to prescribe Xanax or

Oxycontin. I think there are much better pain

relievers, but i dont want to even ask, for fear of

being " flagged " as someone who might be a pill abuser,

etc etc. so there it is, i am med shy and doctor shy.

BUT, i am trying to stop the tramadol, but SLOWLY. I

hate the withdrawal effects so much, it makes me think

of the cold turkey/paxil cessitation, which was a

NIGHTMARE. I am sorry to go on and on--i want the same

thing everyone else wants here, a magic pill that just

resets everything to normal, like before SSRI's. I

know that is highly unlikely. It always seems like

there is something just out of reach, that would

easily explain what it would take to reverse all of

these effects. I dont even know what to blame

sometimes. Some days I blame paxil, some days i blame

persistent lyme effects, some days it tramadol. It

sucks, thanks for letting me vent.

lisa

--- " Vornan-19 (moderator) "

wrote:

> Hi ,

>

> Sorry to hear you're still struggling to get off the

> ultracet. I can

> imagine that's very difficult. Did you ask your doc

> about any other

> type of pain killer you could take that doesn't

> raise serotonin

> levels?

> However, I'm not sure I trust him because I can't

> imagine why he

> would prescribe you a neuroleptic. That would just

> make the restless

> legs and myoclonic jerks worse. If anything you

> could try a dopamine

> agonist like requip or mirapex which work the

> opposite way to

> neuroleptics (i.e .mimic the effects of dopamine.).

> They are the

> standard treatment for those symptoms (though

> obviously have their

> own side effects).

> Thanks very much for your compliments. It feels good

> that you

> appreciate my efforts.

>

> Vornan

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > Vornan,

> > > > >

> > > > > After clicking on this link, i am VERY

> curious

> > > about

> > > > > amygdalin. What do you know about it? I read

> the

> > > post

> > > > > from the group/you and was interested to

> find

> > > out

> > > > > more.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > >

> >

>

http://www.antiaging-systems.com/apruses/deprenylcyprenil.htm

> > > > >

> > > > > i have read the negative stuff about it not

> > > being a

> > > > > cancer cure, the whole cyanide poisoning,

> etc

> > > etc. I

> > > > > realize the manufacturer is only going to

> state

> > > the

> > > > > " wonderful " effects, but they all claim to

> be

> > > helpful

> > > > > for the various post ssri symptoms i suffer.

> I

> > > also

> > > > > know i probably shouldnt go for this type of

>

=== message truncated ===

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[Guest guest]

Danny,

OK, well i got excited about selegeline and clicked

on this link...

http://www.antiaging-systems.com/apruses/deprenylcyprenil.htm

it says Deprenyl tablets are selegiline hydrochloride

the link also calls deprenyl Cyprenil, Selegiline in

citrate form

since it said cyprenil in the article, i searched

cyprenil and got to this mexican pharmacy at this link

http://www.cytopharmaonline.com/

which also calls cyprenil amygdalin. All the while, i

am trying to find these on wikipedia. Most arent

there, including cyprenil. i found amygdalin there

with all the cancer hoax type stuff. Now i am really

confused. Wikipedia doesnt have all of these, the

first website called deprenyl cyprenil in liquid form,

cyprenil comes up as amygdalin, i just have no idea

now, i am so confused. I dont have a clue now if these

are related or what!!!! Can someone out there find out

if these are close or not?? Are they related?

here are just some of the names i have found referring

to each other---Deprenyl / Selegiline / Jumex /

Selepryl / Eldepryl / Cyprenil

Amygdalin/Laetrile

i cant tell. i feel dumb. are these one letter off or

spelled wrong or WHAT?? They do sound similar in

composition--they both affect the brain, i just dont

know!

lisa

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[Guest guest]

thanks for the information Vornan, but one

question..When you say reversiable, what do you mean

by that? Do you mean that with time naturally our

bodies always regress in some way to its natural state

or something? thanks for your help.

--- " Vornan-19 (moderator) "

wrote:

> Hi ,

>

> Yes, I think so. Though I'm reluctant to use the

> word " permanent "

> since gene expression changes are theoretically

> reversible. I

> prefer " persistent " !

>

> Here's a good article on epigenetics (the science of

> gene expression):

>

>

http://www.ehponline.org/members/2006/114-3/focus.html

>

> There's also a good article in this month's

> " Discover " magazine.

>

> Vornan

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi Danny,

> > > > >

> > > > > Where did you read that the effects of

> depreny

> > > are permanent?

> > > I've

> > > > > never seen that before.

> > > >

> > > > Read here: http://tinyurl.com/y84l86

> > > > Does this mean that using deprenyl permanently

> > > raises Nor-ep and

> > > > Dopamine levels beyond treatment?

> > > >

> > > > BTW, please note that I think the herbs and

> the

> > > fact that I've

> > > always

> > > > been smoked some grass moderately are part of

> the

> > > equation here and

> > > > that its not just the Selegeline, but that the

> > > selegeline was the

> > > > missing piece of the puzzle...

> > > >

> > > > > I can relate to the carb thing..

> > > >

> > > > Its well known that high carb meals tend to

> boost

> > > serotonin in the

> > > > brain, and SSRIs are thought to permanently

> down

> > > regulate neuronal

> > > > uptake of same. Since Serotonin is supposed to

> be

> > > calming, I always

> > > > took this to be a symtptom of the permanent

> > > down-reg, soimplistic as

> > > > my analysis might be.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

______________________________________________________________________

> ____________________

> > Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more

> powerful email and

> get things done faster.

> > (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta)

> >

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

There are homeostatic mechanisms in the brain that try to keep things

stable, and I think for the majority of people the sexual side

effects of SSRIs are reversible. For others they reverse very slowly

or not at all. There must be some block in the reversibility of gene

expression changes in the latter group. Though I can't tell you

exactly what it is. Though I imagine what when we do, it will be

easy to fix. I just hope it doesn't take too long to figure it out.

V

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hi Danny,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Where did you read that the effects of

> > depreny

> > > > are permanent?

> > > > I've

> > > > > > never seen that before.

> > > > >

> > > > > Read here: http://tinyurl.com/y84l86

> > > > > Does this mean that using deprenyl permanently

> > > > raises Nor-ep and

> > > > > Dopamine levels beyond treatment?

> > > > >

> > > > > BTW, please note that I think the herbs and

> > the

> > > > fact that I've

> > > > always

> > > > > been smoked some grass moderately are part of

> > the

> > > > equation here and

> > > > > that its not just the Selegeline, but that the

> > > > selegeline was the

> > > > > missing piece of the puzzle...

> > > > >

> > > > > > I can relate to the carb thing..

> > > > >

> > > > > Its well known that high carb meals tend to

> > boost

> > > > serotonin in the

> > > > > brain, and SSRIs are thought to permanently

> > down

> > > > regulate neuronal

> > > > > uptake of same. Since Serotonin is supposed to

> > be

> > > > calming, I always

> > > > > took this to be a symtptom of the permanent

> > > > down-reg, soimplistic as

> > > > > my analysis might be.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

______________________________________________________________________

> > ____________________

> > > Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more

> > powerful email and

> > get things done faster.

> > > (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta)

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________

> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail

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>

[Guest guest]

,

It wouldn't surprise me if you had a persistent Lyme infection. Have

you had all of the tests?

V

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Vornan,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > After clicking on this link, i am VERY

> > curious

> > > > about

> > > > > > amygdalin. What do you know about it? I read

> > the

> > > > post

> > > > > > from the group/you and was interested to

> > find

> > > > out

> > > > > > more.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> http://www.antiaging-systems.com/apruses/deprenylcyprenil.htm

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i have read the negative stuff about it not

> > > > being a

> > > > > > cancer cure, the whole cyanide poisoning,

> > etc

> > > > etc. I

> > > > > > realize the manufacturer is only going to

> > state

> > > > the

> > > > > > " wonderful " effects, but they all claim to

> > be

> > > > helpful

> > > > > > for the various post ssri symptoms i suffer.

> > I

> > > > also

> > > > > > know i probably shouldnt go for this type of

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________

> Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business

> (http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com)

>

[Guest guest]

The derenyl from antiaging systems is most likely real (also known as

Jumex,Selepryl, Eldepryl, Cyprenil etc.). But the cyprenil from

Mexico is *laetrile*. It has got nothing to do with deprenyl but

just has the same name. Don't confuse them! They have very

different properties. I can't imagine that laetrile could help PSSD,

but deprenyl might for some people (though I would not take it with

tramadol). In fact it's best to consult your doc before taking

anything, especially if ordered online.

V

>

> Danny,

>

> OK, well i got excited about selegeline and clicked

> on this link...

>

> http://www.antiaging-systems.com/apruses/deprenylcyprenil.htm

>

>

> it says Deprenyl tablets are selegiline hydrochloride

> the link also calls deprenyl Cyprenil, Selegiline in

> citrate form

>

> since it said cyprenil in the article, i searched

> cyprenil and got to this mexican pharmacy at this link

>

> http://www.cytopharmaonline.com/

>

> which also calls cyprenil amygdalin. All the while, i

> am trying to find these on wikipedia. Most arent

> there, including cyprenil. i found amygdalin there

> with all the cancer hoax type stuff. Now i am really

> confused. Wikipedia doesnt have all of these, the

> first website called deprenyl cyprenil in liquid form,

> cyprenil comes up as amygdalin, i just have no idea

> now, i am so confused. I dont have a clue now if these

> are related or what!!!! Can someone out there find out

> if these are close or not?? Are they related?

>

> here are just some of the names i have found referring

> to each other---Deprenyl / Selegiline / Jumex /

> Selepryl / Eldepryl / Cyprenil

> Amygdalin/Laetrile

>

> i cant tell. i feel dumb. are these one letter off or

> spelled wrong or WHAT?? They do sound similar in

> composition--they both affect the brain, i just dont

> know!

> lisa

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________

> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail

> (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/)

>

[Guest guest]

Vornan,

I think i have persistent lyme as well. This is not

something my doctor believes can happen, however. He

said the tetracycline should have taken care of

everything, the rest is just all in my head. Of course

i think he is wrong.

Do you have any suggestions on what i should do?

When doing research on this topic, it doesnt seem that

there are many doctors out there willing to believe,

or are willing to prescribe antibiotics for such a

long time. I can say, without a doubt, that every time

i take a round of antibiotics for anything else, i

feel crappy for a few days (i think its a herxheimer

reaction) and then almost all of my pain and arthritis

subsides (some arthritis pain, just a bit) for a

period of a couple of weeks. The last time (a couple

of months ago) was oral antibiotics for a high

pitched ear whine i had for a couple of months. The

antibiotics did not help the whine, but my arthritis

sure felt better for a little while. It was GREAT.

I would love to see a doctor for this, but i cant

find any in my area (SW Missouri) who believes in and

treats persistent lyme. Do you know of any? Do you

think a new western blot or ELISA or maybe a PCR would

catch persistent lyme? The spirochete bacteria that

causes this is strong and hard to kill, i think it

hides in my body somehow, it always comes back and

seems to wax and wane according to hormones/time of

the month. I know i can get fish penicillin from the

feed supply store, but i am chicken to try and self

treat. I have considered it MANY MANY times, yet i

havent gone that route. I thought about it when i

travelled to mexico and belize last year, i didnt then

either. I dont know how harmful it is to take

antibiotics persistently. I know when i read the

symptoms for persistent lyme i have almost all of

them.

thanks for any help!

--- " Vornan-19 (moderator) "

wrote:

> ,

>

> It wouldn't surprise me if you had a persistent Lyme

> infection. Have

> you had all of the tests?

>

> V

>

>

> > > > Vornan,

> > > > I am slowly weaning myself off of the

> Ultracet

> > > > because i have the tingly lips/fingers and

> > > dizziness

> > > > the second i am late on a dose. When i was

> first

> > > put

> > > > on it years ago i took 8- 500 mg tabs a day. I

> am

> > > down

> > > > to 3 now, it still helps my arthritis and i am

> > > having

> > > > a LITTLE less trouble with the sexual side

> > > effects. I

> > > > still have them, though. The most recent being

> the

> > > > numbness most people here describe. My libido

> is

> > > OK,

> > > > but i think that is mostly due to the newness

> of

> > > my

> > > > current relationship (1 year). It is still

> VERY

> > > > difficult to achieve orgasm without bizarre

> > > thoughts.

> > > > told me that is probably due to low

> dopamine

> > > > levels. I also suffer from the myoclonic jerks

> and

> > > rls

> > > > at night. I am so freaked out about taking ANY

> > > > medicine now that i cant bear the thought of

> going

> > > to

> > > > the doctor, who spends about 1 minute

> listening to

> > > my

> > > > problems and just wants to throw any medicine

> at

> > > all

> > > > at me, most of which i am too scared to take.

> > > > Especially the neuroleptics--(zyprexa) and

> others

> > > i

> > > > have tried with many strange effects

> (neurontin),

> > > even

> > > > Vioxx when i started having the arthritis. I

> had

> > > > hallucinations the first time i took ONE

> celexa. I

> > > am

> > > > med shy for obvious reasons. I also have the

> type

> > > > (like most of them are) who act like you are

> crazy

> > > > when you research ANYTHING on the internet and

> go

> > > into

> > > > detail about the problems you have. I think

> most

> > > > doctors only listen to about the first 3

> symptoms

> > > you

> > > > say--after that i think they all think we have

> > > > somataform disorders or hypochondria. Its

> dumb,

> > > like

> > > > any of us would choose to be this way.

> > > > Thank you so much for all the help and the

> time

> > > you

> > > > spend helping us all in this group. MAYBE,

> > > someday,

> > > > somehow, dateline or someone will break this

> > > story. I

>

=== message truncated ===

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[Guest guest]

This guy is supposed to be an expert at treating chronic Lyme

infections (scroll down until you see the articles on Lyme disease).

Though I can't vouch for him personally, it might be worth having a

phone consult.

http://www.personalconsult.com/pubindex.html#lyme_disease

Vornan

> > > > > Vornan,

> > > > > I am slowly weaning myself off of the

> > Ultracet

> > > > > because i have the tingly lips/fingers and

> > > > dizziness

> > > > > the second i am late on a dose. When i was

> > first

> > > > put

> > > > > on it years ago i took 8- 500 mg tabs a day. I

> > am

> > > > down

> > > > > to 3 now, it still helps my arthritis and i am

> > > > having

> > > > > a LITTLE less trouble with the sexual side

> > > > effects. I

> > > > > still have them, though. The most recent being

> > the

> > > > > numbness most people here describe. My libido

> > is

> > > > OK,

> > > > > but i think that is mostly due to the newness

> > of

> > > > my

> > > > > current relationship (1 year). It is still

> > VERY

> > > > > difficult to achieve orgasm without bizarre

> > > > thoughts.

> > > > > told me that is probably due to low

> > dopamine

> > > > > levels. I also suffer from the myoclonic jerks

> > and

> > > > rls

> > > > > at night. I am so freaked out about taking ANY

> > > > > medicine now that i cant bear the thought of

> > going

> > > > to

> > > > > the doctor, who spends about 1 minute

> > listening to

> > > > my

> > > > > problems and just wants to throw any medicine

> > at

> > > > all

> > > > > at me, most of which i am too scared to take.

> > > > > Especially the neuroleptics--(zyprexa) and

> > others

> > > > i

> > > > > have tried with many strange effects

> > (neurontin),

> > > > even

> > > > > Vioxx when i started having the arthritis. I

> > had

> > > > > hallucinations the first time i took ONE

> > celexa. I

> > > > am

> > > > > med shy for obvious reasons. I also have the

> > type

> > > > > (like most of them are) who act like you are

> > crazy

> > > > > when you research ANYTHING on the internet and

> > go

> > > > into

> > > > > detail about the problems you have. I think

> > most

> > > > > doctors only listen to about the first 3

> > symptoms

> > > > you

> > > > > say--after that i think they all think we have

> > > > > somataform disorders or hypochondria. Its

> > dumb,

> > > > like

> > > > > any of us would choose to be this way.

> > > > > Thank you so much for all the help and the

> > time

> > > > you

> > > > > spend helping us all in this group. MAYBE,

> > > > someday,

> > > > > somehow, dateline or someone will break this

> > > > story. I

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>

>

>

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