Guest guest Posted February 16, 2006 Report Posted February 16, 2006 > > Toni, > Thankyou for your noble reply. > The 'between' of the words are there and the tone of your > communication is felt. Crazy way of saying it but yes! there is heart > in your reply. I share that with you. It was not the dream per se that > I went public on here although I agree with you Dreams on the web are > like showing ones inners to a butcher...Mmmmm...(not sure I like my > own analogy there! The issue itself is the stuff that was raised in > the dream still rattles for me.. Its about getting the gift > relationship right - in balance- a common enough problem maybe... To > give in a state of thankfulness- indeed Quadah- night of power gift > indeed. So the topic per se is one to expand- to explore as an > extention of a host of notions- even taking into account Jung's four > functions- feeling = value= money= what is valued individually > reflected by money=giveing and receiving same.. and so on.. the notion > of possession of wealth and its burden. letting go.. Thankyou again. > stephen F. > > > > > > Dear , > > > > Relax, this is the last l-o-n-g post. I do get wound up. > > > > I should say, at the beginning I do not help others with their > > dreams, because I do not know them well enough to know what > > amplification may be right for them. I also almost never speak my > > dreams in public. I had to for a while I was in a " dream " group run > > by a Jungian psychologist, but I found it embarrassing sometimes > > being truthful,not at all helpful,and essentially a process for > > one-on-one. So my analyst and I went through them. I could bare my > > soul to her and needed to be absolutely honest. I am no analyst, and > > as Jung says, only the dreamer can know that what he/she is told is > > true for her/him.I have read every book I could find on the subject > > of dreams written with Jung in mind, and that is always helpful. ( > > Now I have confided very occasionally for what i considered an > > " important " dream, but I went to someone much wiser than I who had > > much more training and understanding, yet found many of the same > > things important.) > > > > Now for your other observations: > > I was carrying on your metaphor which was: > > " it is a gift- not yours or mine- held like the wind in a winters > > tree- " > > > > I liked the sound of it, so I used it to. I used it in my own > > context...lovely phrase. > > > > " pain " > > My instinct is to say " thank G-d, its gone! " And that is what i > > always have done. Sometimes I remember the idea of vicarious pain > > being good for another, but i always come back to , I have a lot to > > atone for. myself...if we use traditional language > > > > I am not at all sure I understand what you mean by what you do with > > pain afterwards. After the pain is gone? To me the main benefit of > > pain is to know what other people are experiencing; " I have an idea > > of how you feel, and it is awful isn't it? " That's what compassion > > does, use one's own pain for " feeling with " the sufferer. > > > > gifts: > > I feel we miss-communicated according to this remark???: > > " Another time maybe vis giving and receiving as the energy from each > > person in the gift> relationship is different----- in spite of what > > you conclude. What did I conclude that was different? > > > > > > You said: > > " So Childlike would refere to the need to belong. And that's ok > > too. " This is answer to religious organizations, no? isn't that a > > very common human need " to belong " ? I believe that is how we were > > made...my remedy is after all these years, what Augustine felt: " > > Our hearts are lonely until they find their rest in Thee " It was > > meant, he felt , to be so. > > > > Having spent many unhappy times " trying to fit into the expectations > > of others " I have weighed the comradeship of belonging, to being > > true to myself. Both were never possible at once, since I was so > > often in the teacher's mode, or in a leadership role in the > > organization. It became too much for me. I ended up crying after > > every Mass. No, I an not too crazy, but I knew I had to leave and it > > was with great sadness and some fear of ego. I finally left and > > after a long time, I was at peace, yet missed the sacraments very > > much. Yes, I was alone...but then i had felt alone even amongst > > others. I refused to be recreated in the community approved > > style.And I knew the danger of either being unacceptable, or > > leaving,As for leaving, in fact I had taught the reason not to, " do > > not separate yourself from the believing community " > > > > Loneliness is the heritage of every human being. Existential > > loneliness is the prod we need to start searching. And it remains > > until we finally find what we are looking for, always with the help > > of huge dollops of grace. If we never find it,we continue to feel > > compassion for all the other terribly lonely people on this earth. > > With great hope, we may finally come to the conclusion that we are > > not a separated individual, and that we are part of the One, the > > All. That, at least to me is a reason for the long " way " the " path " > > > > But we will all devise along with spirit how we should go, if we > > wish to, and realize that alone is the only way in the end. At least > > that is my conclusion, and it must be right for me, or I would not > > be at peace with the decision. ( I still have a great urge to stop > > when I pass a church in my car, to go in and pray. I don't, > > because...... > > > > Thinking:It is getting so, my mind gets foggy in discussing the > > spiritual..thinking about these subjects make it so. Words just > > don't " do' it for me..why I continue I am not sure..Truth does not > > come from one's thoughts anyway. Maybe I am not understandable??? > > > > > > > > Toni > > > > Original Message ----- > > > > To: <JUNG-FIRE > > > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:04 AM > > Subject: Re: Re: Your reply Toni > > > > > > > Toni > > > my statement was - it is what you do with the pain afterwards- > > > Didn't use the word Hang- vis the Gift of healing-needs re-reading > > > > > > But sure! We read what we want to see. > > > My initial intent was to explore a dream through amplification... > > > Another time maybe vis giving and receiving as the energy from > > > each person in the gift relationship is different.. in spite of > > > what you conclude. and agreed- there is a huge commonness among > > > the different 'faiths' in relation to what comes from beyond- and > > > each seem to have a unique claim over these wonderful experiences > > > we human have. So Childlike would refere to the need to belong. > > > And that's ok too. F. > > > > > > > > > > " Our highest duty as human beings is to search out a means whereby > > beings may be freed from all kinds of unsatisfactory experience and > > suffering. " > > > > H.H. Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th. Dalai Lama > > > > > > Quote
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