Re: Quick fix therapy

[Guest guest]

I can learn social skills, but I need to be told exactly what to say and what to

do. If the information is too general, it is not useful to me. If you learn any

more things that we are suposed to say, let me know. I would appreciate it.>

>

> Date: 2004/07/06 Tue AM 10:32:28 EDT

> To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Subject: Quick fix therapy

>

>

[Guest guest]

Anas wrote:

> He is helping me to control my stress and social skills etc.

>

> This councelor asked me to imagine

>

> I am not sure this man can help me. He is treating me like an NT. From

> where I am standing, if I haven't been able to learn what to say after

> 36 years, how can I learn now.

> So I was wondering does anyone think that it is possible for me to

> devolop these social skills or am I wasting my time with him.

Yes it is possible but only if you believe in it. I started my personal

growth journey after I was 40. It is definitely harder as you get older

and many times harder with AS but it can happen. The other option but I

don't accept as viable is to go with what some on this list claim, that

they are perfect the way they are and nothing needs fixing. That it is

the rest of the world that needs fixing.

Many things we will never learn but if we concentrate on those things

that matter most we can manage to blend in better. Many times it will

mean thinking about and studying something that for others comes as

instinct. I think the place to start is simply to recognize those areas

where others go by instinct and you don't have any clue. Accept that and

study it. Practice. One of the greatest features many of us has is the

ability to focus on one specific project to where we know it better than

anyone else. If we can harness that power to learn the instincts we are

missing then we would become the expert.

Yes this is a simplistic approach but it could work.

[Guest guest]

I want to know what kind of 'skills' your counsellor thinks he is talking about.

Sounds

like he wants you to take a course in mindreading to me. When NTs think they

are

doing what they call 'empathising' (probably what your counsellor wants you to

do),

they are just projecting what they think they would feel onto others. I think

one of the

best qualities autistic people have is that they are prepared to admit that

other

people's minds are uncharted territory, which is incredibly honest, in my

opinion.

Funnily enough, we were talking about what people should say when somebody's

close relative dies today, and we concluded that, actually, most people - NTs,

that is -

manage to make pretty stupid and fatuous comments. Death is a tricky topic, and

rather too much to use as a first example, I feel. My father died recently and

people

talked a right load of old nonsense. I think the best thing to say is 'that's

terribly sad

- if there's anything at all I can do to help, please let me know'. That would

be good,

because it's about practical solutions. It means that you don't have to make

judgements about their emotional state, but that you do care enough about them

to

do something for them.

There might be a case, however, for learning - from a book or anywhere else -

the

kind of things people usually want to hear (in less serious situations than

bereavement). Now, you may not be comfortable with this, and it's up to you how

much you take on board. I find it hard to say things that I do not believe are

true. For

example, when people say 'how are you?' and I feel rotten, I can't say 'fine'.

It would

be a lie. But that's what they want to hear, for some reason. I can't figure

out why! I

wouldn't ask somebody how they felt unless I really wanted to know the

truth...........

I don't see the problem this guy has with you getting a book. After all, don't

NTs

learn all these social skills as if by wrote when they're growing up? I mean,

they're not

sincere half the time when they're communicating, are they? They must learn how

to

say things they do not mean.

I don't know if this guy can help you or not, but if you don't hit it off with

him, it'll put

a barrier in the way. I wouldn't be too phased by their failing to give you a

diagnosis

- after all, they probably have to allocate funds to people officially diagnosed

with

Asperger's, and they'll be reluctant to do that. Just take on board from him as

much

as is beneficial. You don't have to take on everything he presents you with.

Anyway, on the bright side, at least now we have the internet we can get access

to lots

of different points of view - which means that we can have a more balanced

outlook

than if we were exclusively in contact with one professional. That said, it can

be nice

to have face-to-face support (providing, as far as I am concerned, that

face-to-face

doesn't mean eye contact!!!).

Good luck and best wishes,

.

[Guest guest]

> Yes it is possible but only if you believe in it. I started my

> personal growth journey after I was 40. It is definitely harder as

> you get older and many times harder with AS but it can happen. The

> other option but I don't accept as viable is to go with what some on

> this list claim, that they are perfect the way they are and nothing

> needs fixing. That it is the rest of the world that needs fixing.

If you look closely, I don't think anyone is saying that. I think

people are saying that personal growth may happen in *different ways*,

in possibly *different directions*. It seems to be the #1 Myth of

anti-cure attitudes -- that they mean that people don't need to grow

or change or learn. What is meant is that this growth or change or

learning does not take the same *shape* as growth or change or

learning would for someone of different neurology, and that there is

nothing inherently *bad* about autistic neurology.

> Many things we will never learn but if we concentrate on those

> things that matter most we can manage to blend in better.

Is blending in more important, or is leading the life one wants to

lead, in an ethical way of course, important? I have found that

blending in is completely impossible, and for me it would *stunt*

personal growth. I had years of training, including some heavy

aversives, in how to blend in and at the best I could pass for " crazy

" . Those who do pass often find after awhile that they burn out,

like the woman was taking care of and like many on this list.

Passing has been tried -- it does not accomplish what a person wants

to accomplish.

If I were to try my hardest to blend in, I would not only fail

completely at blending in, but I would use up all that energy that I

could have been using on things that actually were of some use to me

or other people. Forcing myself to try to blend in results in very

conspicuous and loud meltdowns. Those are much less frequent if I am

not doing that. People need to accept *all kinds of people* in the

world, and I know that it's possible because I've seen small pockets

of the world in which it's happened. Society is neither fixed nor

neutral of value.

Some people seem to *take this* as " But that would mean we don't grow!

" or " But that would mean we don't improve our character! " I have

gone through a lot of personal growth in the last few years, and none

of it has been in the direction of blending in, fitting in, or

passing. I know that unfortunately there are autistics who can only

survive by passing, but I have also seen firsthand the price they pay.

I don't want them to have to pay that price, and I consider some of

what I do to be work toward making it easier for those who now have to

pass, to be accepted in a very non-passing way.

I try to be nice to people I meet in person. This does not require

being able to read their body language, nor being able to send out the

same body language as everyone else. I think trying to be nice (by

which I don't mean " acquiescent " but rather " respectful " ) does not

translate to passing as well as I can for NT, nor is it an NT trait to

be nice to people. I am *very* conspicuously non-NT, yet people at

Meeting (my only in-person social thing at the moment, the Quaker

equivalent to church) have told me explicitly that they view me as an

important part of their community, and not at all as a bad person. I

actually don't think I'd *get* quite that response out of them if I

were trying to pass, but through doing things *other* than trying to

pass, I can expend my energy on (in this case) *relating* to them. As

someone different from them, to people different from me.

Which takes a lot of energy (which I consider worthwhile) but would be

totally impossible if I were using that energy trying to pass. They

view me as an equal, but most do not minimize the degree to which my

neurology differs from theirs. Most of them seem to know that I'm not

being insensitive if there are certain things I don't notice or

certain signals I don't send in the same ways they do. If I had to

act like them in order to be accepted by them, that would not be true

equality.

There are all kinds of ways autistic people can do things that are

good, without having to do them *in NT ways*. And that is what

autistic people tend to mean when we say that we are good *as we are*.

We don't mean no change, no growth, or any of those other things.

We're just trying to talk about the *direction* that this change and

growth takes. Autism is dynamic, not static -- autistics grow too;

autism itself does not consist of stagnation.

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>...If I had to act like them in order to be accepted

>by them, that would not be true equality.

Exactly! Very well said.

>There are all kinds of ways autistic people can do things that are

>good, without having to do them *in NT ways*. And that is what

>autistic people tend to mean when we say that we are good *as we are*.

> We don't mean no change, no growth, or any of those other things.

>We're just trying to talk about the *direction* that this change and

>growth takes. Autism is dynamic, not static -- autistics grow too;

>autism itself does not consist of stagnation.

Hear, hear!

And as you also said (in the parts I snipped), many of us

can do a better job of growing into better selves (each

unique) if we are not trying to focus our core energies on

how we " appear. " Who we are is more than how we appear to

others. Being " good " in appearnace is worth far less than

achieving an ethical understanding of one's self in relation

to one's own world and the " wider world " (and, from that,

clearer ideas of how to live/act ethically).

Jane