Re: OH MY GOD finally a diagnosis- [Warning: Sorry Triggered!]

November 21, 2006

Oh, Ariel,

I am SO SORRY that you are feeling down! The holidays are the worst for so many

people

because we have created this idea of an 'ideal' family, where everyone gets

together on

Thanksgiving and tosses a football and eats pie, and you and I and most people

on this

board have no idea what that kind of family would be like (well we may have some

idea

from being around other people's families).

It really is scary how different nada's can be when they are home versus when

they are out

in the outside world. Of course if your nada is high society, charity working,

etc, then all

those relationships are superficial anyway and nobody will ever know the real

her. They all

think she is wonderful because they don't know her at all, and they won't ever

realize that.

I am so sorry that you may never get the validation that you need from a doctor

about your

nada's illness.

I really think that the only reason my nada is finally being diagnosed is that

she has gotten

much much worse. See the pattern has broken. Normally she would attempt

suicide, we

would all come running, they would put her in a facility she is familiar with

(she had been

in every single mental hospital in the state where she used to live before), she

would

actually feel safe and secure in there and she would manipulate everyone

(including the

staff) emotionally. We would give her what she wanted---bring her everything

she

needed, dote on her, give her tons of attention, hoping to help her 'get

better'. You see,

this was a LOW STRESS for her situation typically, because then she would have

an excuse

to quit school (like she did last yer) stop working (like she did last year) go

on disability,

and just generally expect us all to be her minions like we were when we were

kids. This

was her way 'out', she never wanted to die, she just wanted a valid excuse to

have no adult

responsibilities.

This time it didn't work that way. She pulled this stunt in a new state, far

away from my

brother and my dad (who saved her and doted on her last time she did this, since

I don't

live there anymore). She was unfamiliar with the hospital, and here in this

state they put

you in the hospital, not the 'in patient treatment center' she was used to.

There is a big

difference b/t a hospital ward and a day camp, and she didn't like it. She

didn't have

anyone to call and order around to bring her things and give her attention, and

the stress

of the situation caused her to abuse anyone she could find, which happened to be

strangers in this instant. So essentially by being NC and not feeding her

desire for

attention, we stressed her out enough to force the queen and then the witch out

where the

doctors could see her and diagnose her.

I fear this kind of stressful situation will be the only thing to ever force

your nada's witch

out, too.

Ariel, I know Thanksgiving and Christmas will be hard for you, but try to

surround yourself

with healthy people who appreciate you,and try to focus on the positive things

in your life.

One of the worst things about my nada is that she ALWAYS focuses on the

negative, and

she taught me to do that too. I find I am alot less depressed if I try to focus

on what is

good and positive in my life. You can't forget the negative,but it can shrink

in dimension

if you look at the good things. You'll get through the holidays because you are

strong and

healthy.....you can do it.

I give thanks everyday for the people on this board (including you) who help me

and listen

to me and encourage and support me.

> >

> > WOW I just got off the phone with the Doctor who I had been going

> > back and forth about calling back. Thanks so much for the advice

> > about whether to call her, you guys. I called her back and I am

> > really glad that I did.

> >

> > Turns out that this Dr is a psychiatrist. She initially talked

> > about how my nada cannot live alone because she cannot ambulate.

> > There was some discussion with one of her friends in DE about her

> > living there, but that fell through. Now they want to know if

> there

> > is anything 'the family' can do to help or else they will have to

> > look into some other option for her living arrangements.

> >

> > I told her under no circumstances was I going to even talk to my

> > nada no less take her in. Then we got into a discussion about her

> > mental problems. I told her that my nada has a long standing

> > diagnosis of bipolar disorder, but that I think there is more

> going

> > on. When I said that, she immediately said " Are you talking about

> > Borderline Personality Disorder? " and I said " OH MY GOD YES I

> AM. "

> >

> > Anyway, she indicated that she was certainly aware that my nada

> was

> > abusive. (Apparently she has been abusive to the staff at the

> > hospital, too.) She also said that BPD is part of my nada's

> > diagnosis, and that she had given my nada some literature about

> > modifying her behavior, but that nada (of course) refused to admit

> > that her problems in relationships were her own doing (of course

> > everyone else is the problem, certainly not her!)

> >

> > I guess she really screwed herself up with this last suicide

> > attempt, the Doctor says that she is in a wheelchair. I hate to

> > think of her in a shelter or something but I cannot take her in.

> > This onyl strengthen my resolve to be NC, because she has a

> > professional diagnosis, and I KNOW that there is NOTHING I can do

> to

> > help her. She HAS to help herself, and since that is highly

> > unlikely, I have to continue to go about the task of healing my

> life

> > and protecting myself and my family.

> >

> > But she FINALLY has a BPD diagnosis! What she will do with it, if

> > anything, I don't know. After 32 years of wondering what was

> wrong

> > with my nada, and after a month wondering why no doctors have

> > recognized her BPD in all those hospital stays (when it took about

> a

> > half hour to figure out on google last month), this is a big deal.

> >

> > Thanks for listening and being there.

> >

>

November 21, 2006

-Greg,

I'm so sorry you've down. I do know how you feel, having no

family. When I left home at 15, I ended up living and moving around

Europe for close to two decades. Although I had friends I visited

at holiday times, no one there celebrated TG and they spent

Christmas Eve and Day with immediate family. Those 3 days were

always long, hard, and bitter ones for me too. I think it had as

much to do with dealing with the ghosts of holidays' past, my family

that never really exhisted, as it did with being alone. Mourning the

candle at both ends, so to speak. I do have my DH and DS 3.5 now,

but I'm still having a hard time this year. I have a lot of grief

and anger after coming face to face with my past and Nada's BPD. I

think a part of me thought somehow it would all be " normal " someday.

I'm grieving for a past that never was, and for stories of a happy

childhood, I can never tell myself again. At least I had my OWN lies

to get me through the holidays before. Isn't that something.

Mourning the ability to lie to myself.

I agree with you that it seems natural for someone with your/my

nada's problems to get cancer. After all, they sit and stew in their

own bile almost as much as they dish it out. It's gotta catch up to

them. All of the women on Nada's side of the family died of natural

causes in their 90's- and we're talking about before they had all

the life saving drugs and treaments. I'm convinced they were

preserved in their own poison, but they all had digestive problems

and diabetes.

I wish I could give you ideas of how to have a good holiday

season. Maybe try out another religion for a few monthes. Like

Buddhism, or Judism, or try volunteering with some people that are

more unfortunate. This past week, even though I was barely

functioning myself, I went (had already volunteered at an earlier

date) to pack TG baskets for the poor and the elderly in our area.

The people there were great, and I really felt connected to

something bigger than myself for a short period of time, with no

further commitment. It was healthy to stop and get out of the " ME-

mode " for awhile.

I also have a close friend, who is what I call " Devoutly Athiest " .

He spends most of this time of year telling me how the holidays are

all hold-overs from government conspiracies long past. Knows the

whole history of present-day religions being built upon Pagen

traditions ect. He " religiously " has people over for themed film

festivals specifically to forget the holidays. He has parties such

as watching all the " Bond " movies, or the entire series

of " Friday the 13th " . This year I think it's the 6 Star Wars.

I'm not trying to make light of your pain and isolation, just

thinking that maybe you should take all focus off of the " Norman

Rockwell Holiday Pagent " this year and do something different. What

ever you do I hope you feel better and that the next few weeks are

enjoyable and peaceful.

Ariel

-- In WTOAdultChildren1 , G wrote:

>

> Areil,

>

> I spent all of yesterday in bed due to feeling

> depressed about the holidays. That is a first for me.

> My nada is a rich, high society type that does all

> this charity work for " her " church and plays music and

> directs it and etc. And for nearly 3 decades people

> believed that _____________walked on water, or could

> skip a puddle ~ unitil she got breast cancer!!!!!!

> Yes!!!!!!!!! talk about mind-body connection. Even

> though it is all clear and has been for months, I've

> gotten emails from people back there that used to

> scorn me for being such a hateful son, only to say,

> " What has happened to your mother? Has she always

> been this mean?? etc.

>

> Since I went N/C August 1st, I don't know about what

> behavior they are referring other than some emails

> that she mass sent out that were rude and completely

> inappropriate. But with a dx like cancer, she thought

> she could say anything and not hide it in the house.

> She was wrong. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

> For me, these holidays are starting off sad b/c I

> don't have any family left and I moved to Seattle on

> August 1st. So it really is sad and I can live with

> that this year.

>

> So, in a way I have experienced my mom going tooooo

> far and she has done and said some things that

> _____________club won't stand for. But I still don't

> have a mother, a brother, (I do have my nephews when

> they grow older I hope).

>

> Take good care and you're not alone!!

>

> Greg.

> --- whitedkcats2 wrote:

>

> > -- ,

> >

> > That's wonderful, WONDERFUL news! After 32

> > years of

> > invalidation and guilt, you finally have

> > proof-positive you were

> > right-it wasn't you. It's sad that even after we are

> > educated about

> > BPD, and come to KNOW that they have the illness, we

> > doubt out

> > judgement until an outside professional source

> > finally sees it too.

> >

> > I too have this syndrome. No matter how many

> > times Nada re-

> > enforces my conviction, I still slip into doubt. I

> > guess I am still

> > waiting for validation from a doctor, even though

> > friends and

> > collegues connected to Mental Health field all agree

> > with me. The

> > fact is she is the epitome of the gracious,

> > upper-class socialite,

> > and any " royal " tantrums and bullying is seen as

> > just another

> > idiocincracy of the spoiled rich-NOT a disorder. My

> > Nada scarily

> > resembles Joan Crawfords BPD pattern. No

> > suicidal/self-abusive

> > tendencies, which psychiatrists mistakenly, belive

> > HAVE to be

> > present to diagnose the disorder. She is Dr.

> > Jeckel/Mr. Hyde-the

> > perfectly poised public facade-every expression,

> > every word, every

> > action a brilliant performance. At home a

> > manipulative, vicious,

> > psychopath-lunatic rages, abuse, realisty shifting.

> > She has problems

> > keeping up the facade at home even when people do

> > visit, this is

> > where most of the people I know came to realize the

> > truth about her.

> > But publicly, I can honestly say my Nada is

> > praised-almost ADORED

> > for her charity work, her devotion to causes,

> > organizational

> > skills. " Oh, it must be wonderful to have a mother

> > like yours! She's

> > SO inspiring! " ...Blah, blah, blah. GOD FORBID I

> > speak badly of Saint

> > Nada! Speaking the truth only makes others pity her

> > and reflest

> > badly on me.

> >

> > I hope someday I experience the same validation

> > you have .

> > Hope..but not holding my breath. I doubt anyone will

> > ever see it.

> > Dishrag sure doesn't-a Harvard Law grad!! I always

> > have

> > Crawford in the back of my mind-how villified she

> > was after DARING

> > to put out such a vicious book slandering one of

> > America's best-

> > loved celebrities-her own MOTHER TOO! HORRERS!! Even

> > if she hadn't

> > been famous our society still buys into the fantasy

> > that no one but

> > lower classes have psychiatric problems. Unless it

> > is extremely

> > obvious, people for the middle and upper-classes

> > behavior is

> > excused. If yor famous-it's anything goes! And LORD

> > KNOWS, in our

> > society saying anything negative against our parents

> > is treated with

> > scorn and critism, in general. Honor thy father and

> > mother. Turn the

> > other cheek. I'm sure they LOVE you,despite what

> > they say or do. It

> > couldn't be THAT bad if you think about it...

> >

> > Sorry this message is becoming about me. I think

> > I've been

> > triggered, somehow. My depression is also kicking-in

> > before the

> > holidays have even begun this year. It may have

> > something to do with

> > my discovery this year of the reality of Nada- and

> > processing

> > memories of a past I had forgotten about for 25

> > years. So many

> > losses I've had in my life-due to childhood abuse

> > that no one will

> > ever accept is real. Knowing that forgetting the

> > past only resulted

> > in re-living it over and over in other ways-and

> > blaming myself for

> > doing so. If I do speak out, with my diagnosis, Nada

> > justs tells

> > everyone I'm delusional, and if you know her

> > publicly and believe

> > her version of me, I DO sound crazy! Also, I've been

> > gone for two

> > decades, and she's had plenty of time to trash my

> > reputation with

> > lies- which everyone believes MUST be true. After

> > all I'm Crazy!!

> > God knows I feel like I am. The worst thing is that

> > she relishes the

> > fact that she'll never be blamed. Everyone sees

> > things HER way, and

> > she's accomplished what she has spent years doing-

> > to win over me.

> > Just as the witch/queen in Snow White she has

> > finally proven that

> > she is indeed the fairest in the land- after

> > thoroughly anhilating

> > me her " rival " . Anything I say now is just

> > vindictive insanity,of

> > course. Trying to avoid taking responsibility for

> > my own failures

> > by blaming my wonderful, devoted, generous, martyr

> > of a mother, who

> > has invested SO much time and effort in me when

> > others would have

> > thrown a wretched thing like me away. How could I be

> > so ungrateful!

> >

> > WHEW! Boy do I feel better after spewing out all

> > that poison from

> > my psyche! Thanks to anyone who gets through this

> > rambling vent.

> > Sorry,to hit you all so early in the day. I've been

> > up since 4:00

> > am, on my 2cd cup of coffee with a heavy dollop of

> > sadness and self-

> > pity. I'l probably feel a little better after the

> > sun rises.Don't

> > know how I'll hold up for Thanksgiving.

> >

> > Ariel

> >

> > - In WTOAdultChildren1 , " julieag75 "

> > <julieanngiles@> wrote:

> > >

> > > WOW I just got off the phone with the Doctor who I

> > had been going

> > > back and forth about calling back. Thanks so much

> > for the advice

> > > about whether to call her, you guys. I called her

> > back and I am

> > > really glad that I did.

> > >

> > > Turns out that this Dr is a psychiatrist. She

> > initially talked

> > > about how my nada cannot live alone because she

> > cannot ambulate.

> > > There was some discussion with one of her friends

> > in DE about her

> > > living there, but that fell through. Now they

> > want to know if

> > there

> > > is anything 'the family' can do to help or else

> > they will have to

> > > look into some other option for her living

> > arrangements.

> > >

> > > I told her under no circumstances was I going to

> > even talk to my

> > > nada no less take her in. Then we got into a

> > discussion about her

> > > mental problems. I told her that my nada has a

> > long standing

> > > diagnosis of bipolar disorder, but that I think

> > there is more

> > going

> > > on. When I said that, she immediately said " Are

> > you talking about

> > > Borderline Personality Disorder? " and I said " OH

> > MY GOD YES I

> > AM. "

> > >

> > > Anyway, she indicated that she was certainly aware

> > that my nada

> > was

> > > abusive. (Apparently she has been abusive to the

> > staff at the

> > > hospital, too.) She also said that BPD is part of

> > my nada's

> > > diagnosis, and that she had given my nada some

> > literature about

> > > modifying her behavior, but that nada (of course)

> > refused to admit

> > > that her problems in relationships were her own

> > doing (of course

> > > everyone else is the problem, certainly not her!)

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

_____________________________________________________________________

_______________

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>

November 21, 2006

Ariel,

I am so happy to hear that your husband's sense of

humor helped you get out of nadaville!!!!!!!!!

Yes!

I didn't realize that she called you 3-5 times a day.

So did mine before I went n/c. She would call to tell

me how her cat was eating its cat food!!!!! No WONDER

I didn't have a life of my own. No wonder I didn't

feel or see myself ---MYSELF---- as IMPORTANT! Who

would when they have this other person invading on

their space, into their head, vying for first place.

I was so relieved to get her out of my life. Ariel,

if you do want to really get to know more of yourself,

if you're like me and a lot of people here, you could

set a boundary to limit the calls to one a week. In

truth, they never will keep it, but it's worth a try -

setting a boundary, following through with it,

reinforcing it, she suffers the consequences when she

breaks it, and you have more peace on earth!

All my best,

Greg.

--- whitedkcats2 wrote:

> > and just generally expect us all to be her minions

> like we were

> hhen we were kids.

>

> Oh ! I just LOVE the word " Minions " ! That

> is so,

> deliciously, appropriate for members of my FOO! Sort

> of flying

> monkey's to her wicked-witch-of-the-west. My oldest

> brother would

> make a GREAT flying monkey, always flying around her

> like a punch-

> drunk bat!. I'll remember to use this imagery for TG

> on thursday.

>

> A pot of coffee, and a shower and I feel 100%

> better-although

> that's really not saying I'm even close to normal.

> Just don't feel

> like slamming my head in a car door, anymore.

>

> Get this! Nada called this morning, not unusual

> as she calls me

> at least 3-5X every day! This time, I answered

> knowing that she

> wanted to give me the annual " instructions " as to

> what my role in

> this years TG festivities were. YEP-I'm in charge of

> making the

> pies, the rolls, and( ruining) the GREEN BEANS!! She

> sounded as if

> she was giving some sort of Honor! " THIS year I'm

> going to LET you do

> the Green Beans! " (Unlike to the last decade, when I

> did the Green

> Beans, Huh?!)

>

> Well, DH saw the number on the caller ID, and

> proceeded to go

> back and forth next to me in the kitchen doing his

> rendition of the

> song " Cruella DeVille " ; playing the air-trombone and

> high-kicking

> like a Russian soldier too!( he can be such a nut!).

> Nada's on the

> phone saying, " What is WRONG with him?! Why is he

> always singing

> that dreadful song! I would think he would have

> better things to do

> with his time then watching frivolous Disney movies!

> I think he

> should seriously consider contacting a mental health

> specialist.

> Your father knows some important ones, not like the

> " people " YOU

> know! " . The incredible thing was her words didn't

> even faze me, even

> after this morning! It was all I could do to keep

> from bursting out

> laughing!

>

> DH left for work and hour ago. I'm still

> chuckling! Maybe there's

> hope for this holiday after all! Just need to have a

> pot of coffee

> and a good laugh Thursday morning, before we head

> over there!

>

> Ariel

>

> >

> > >

> > > -- ,

> > >

> > > That's wonderful, WONDERFUL news! After 32

> years of

> > > invalidation and guilt, you finally have

> proof-positive you were

> > > right-it wasn't you. It's sad that even after we

> are educated

> about

> > > BPD, and come to KNOW that they have the

> illness, we doubt out

> > > judgement until an outside professional source

> finally sees it

> too.

> > >

> > > I too have this syndrome. No matter how

> many times Nada re-

> > > enforces my conviction, I still slip into doubt.

> I guess I am

> still

> > > waiting for validation from a doctor, even

> though friends and

> > > collegues connected to Mental Health field all

> agree with me.

> The

> > > fact is she is the epitome of the gracious,

> upper-class

> socialite,

> > > and any " royal " tantrums and bullying is seen as

> just another

> > > idiocincracy of the spoiled rich-NOT a disorder.

> My Nada scarily

> > > resembles Joan Crawfords BPD pattern. No

> suicidal/self-abusive

> > > tendencies, which psychiatrists mistakenly,

> belive HAVE to be

> > > present to diagnose the disorder. She is Dr.

> Jeckel/Mr. Hyde-the

> > > perfectly poised public facade-every expression,

> every word,

> every

> > > action a brilliant performance. At home a

> manipulative, vicious,

> > > psychopath-lunatic rages, abuse, realisty

> shifting. She has

> problems

> > > keeping up the facade at home even when people

> do visit, this is

> > > where most of the people I know came to realize

> the truth about

> her.

> > > But publicly, I can honestly say my Nada is

> praised-almost

> ADORED

> > > for her charity work, her devotion to causes,

> organizational

> > > skills. " Oh, it must be wonderful to have a

> mother like yours!

> She's

> > > SO inspiring! " ...Blah, blah, blah. GOD FORBID I

> speak badly of

> Saint

> > > Nada! Speaking the truth only makes others pity

> her and reflest

> > > badly on me.

> > >

> > > I hope someday I experience the same

> validation you have

> .

> > > Hope..but not holding my breath. I doubt anyone

> will ever see

> it.

> > > Dishrag sure doesn't-a Harvard Law grad!! I

> always have

>

> > > Crawford in the back of my mind-how villified

> she was after

> DARING

> > > to put out such a vicious book slandering one of

> America's best-

> > > loved celebrities-her own MOTHER TOO! HORRERS!!

> Even if she

> hadn't

> > > been famous our society still buys into the

> fantasy that no one

> but

> > > lower classes have psychiatric problems. Unless

> it is extremely

> > > obvious, people for the middle and upper-classes

> behavior is

> > > excused. If yor famous-it's anything goes! And

> LORD KNOWS, in

> our

> > > society saying anything negative against our

> parents is treated

> with

> > > scorn and critism, in general. Honor thy father

> and mother. Turn

> the

> > > other cheek. I'm sure they LOVE you,despite what

> they say or do.

> It

> > > couldn't be THAT bad if you think about it...

> > >

> > > Sorry this message is becoming about me. I

> think I've been

> > > triggered, somehow. My depression is also

> kicking-in before the

> > > holidays have even begun this year. It may have

> something to do

> with

> > > my discovery this year of the reality of Nada-

> and processing

> > > memories of a past I had forgotten about for 25

> years. So many

> > > losses I've had in my life-due to childhood

> abuse that no one

> will

> > > ever accept is real. Knowing that forgetting the

> past only

> resulted

> > > in re-living it over and over in other ways-and

> blaming myself

> for

> > > doing so. If I do speak out, with my diagnosis,

> Nada justs tells

>

=== message truncated ===

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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November 21, 2006

- Yes,she calls all day long at intervals. She's usually the first

and last call of the day. Every phone we have has caller ID, so her

calling doesn't mean I answer, and only after I screen her messages

to seeif iwarrents a conversation. Even then, I don't really to talk

TO her, she talks AT me. Most of the time neutral stuff, like a play-

by-play of the latest Dr Phil Show, or her opinion of the new mail

carrier. She either can't stand to be alone with her own thought, or

she constantly needs an audience. I haven't really figured out

which. A lot of the times our conversations start out in " human " and

then eventually her voice fades into droning. You know, like all the

adults sounded in the old " Charlie Brown " cartoons-Wah,wah, wha-wha-

wha, WHA! People always comment how my father and I have the same

inpenetrable attention-span. You can literally stand next to us and

shout, when we're in the middle of doing something and we don't hear

a thing. Sometimes it is literally impossible to NOT tune her out.

At this point in my life, I'm sorry to say, speaking to her one

time a week is about as probable as flying to the moon on a

skateboard. That's why I've got to start making future plans to

remove myself from this entanglement. I know it never will, just

wishing and waiting for it to happen on it's own.

Ariel

-- In WTOAdultChildren1 , G wrote:

>

> Ariel,

>

> I am so happy to hear that your husband's sense of

> humor helped you get out of nadaville!!!!!!!!!

>

> Yes!

>

> I didn't realize that she called you 3-5 times a day.

> So did mine before I went n/c. She would call to tell

> me how her cat was eating its cat food!!!!! No WONDER

> I didn't have a life of my own. No wonder I didn't

> feel or see myself ---MYSELF---- as IMPORTANT! Who

> would when they have this other person invading on

> their space, into their head, vying for first place.

> I was so relieved to get her out of my life. Ariel,

> if you do want to really get to know more of yourself,

> if you're like me and a lot of people here, you could

> set a boundary to limit the calls to one a week. In

> truth, they never will keep it, but it's worth a try -

> setting a boundary, following through with it,

> reinforcing it, she suffers the consequences when she

> breaks it, and you have more peace on earth!

>

> All my best,

>

> Greg.

> --- whitedkcats2 wrote:

>

> > > and just generally expect us all to be her minions

> > like we were

> > hhen we were kids.

> >

> > Oh ! I just LOVE the word " Minions " ! That

> > is so,

> > deliciously, appropriate for members of my FOO! Sort

> > of flying

> > monkey's to her wicked-witch-of-the-west. My oldest

> > brother would

> > make a GREAT flying monkey, always flying around her

> > like a punch-

> > drunk bat!. I'll remember to use this imagery for TG

> > on thursday.

> >

> > A pot of coffee, and a shower and I feel 100%

> > better-although

> > that's really not saying I'm even close to normal.

> > Just don't feel

> > like slamming my head in a car door, anymore.

> >

> > Get this! Nada called this morning, not unusual

> > as she calls me

> > at least 3-5X every day! This time, I answered

> > knowing that she

> > wanted to give me the annual " instructions " as to

> > what my role in

> > this years TG festivities were. YEP-I'm in charge of

> > making the

> > pies, the rolls, and( ruining) the GREEN BEANS!! She

> > sounded as if

> > she was giving some sort of Honor! " THIS year I'm

> > going to LET you do

> > the Green Beans! " (Unlike to the last decade, when I

> > did the Green

> > Beans, Huh?!)

> >

> > Well, DH saw the number on the caller ID, and

> > proceeded to go

> > back and forth next to me in the kitchen doing his

> > rendition of the

> > song " Cruella DeVille " ; playing the air-trombone and

> > high-kicking

> > like a Russian soldier too!( he can be such a nut!).

> > Nada's on the

> > phone saying, " What is WRONG with him?! Why is he

> > always singing

> > that dreadful song! I would think he would have

> > better things to do

> > with his time then watching frivolous Disney movies!

> > I think he

> > should seriously consider contacting a mental health

> > specialist.

> > Your father knows some important ones, not like the

> > " people " YOU

> > know! " . The incredible thing was her words didn't

> > even faze me, even

> > after this morning! It was all I could do to keep

> > from bursting out

> > laughing!

> >

> > DH left for work and hour ago. I'm still

> > chuckling! Maybe there's

> > hope for this holiday after all! Just need to have a

> > pot of coffee

> > and a good laugh Thursday morning, before we head

> > over there!

> >

> > Ariel

> >

> > >

> > > >

> > > > -- ,

> > > >

> > > > That's wonderful, WONDERFUL news! After 32

> > years of

> > > > invalidation and guilt, you finally have

> > proof-positive you were

> > > > right-it wasn't you. It's sad that even after we

> > are educated

> > about

> > > > BPD, and come to KNOW that they have the

> > illness, we doubt out

> > > > judgement until an outside professional source

> > finally sees it

> > too.

> > > >

> > > > I too have this syndrome. No matter how

> > many times Nada re-

> > > > enforces my conviction, I still slip into doubt.

> > I guess I am

> > still

> > > > waiting for validation from a doctor, even

> > though friends and

> > > > collegues connected to Mental Health field all

> > agree with me.

> > The

> > > > fact is she is the epitome of the gracious,

> > upper-class

> > socialite,

> > > > and any " royal " tantrums and bullying is seen as

> > just another

> > > > idiocincracy of the spoiled rich-NOT a disorder.

> > My Nada scarily

> > > > resembles Joan Crawfords BPD pattern. No

> > suicidal/self-abusive

> > > > tendencies, which psychiatrists mistakenly,

> > belive HAVE to be

> > > > present to diagnose the disorder. She is Dr.

> > Jeckel/Mr. Hyde-the

> > > > perfectly poised public facade-every expression,

> > every word,

> > every

> > > > action a brilliant performance. At home a

> > manipulative, vicious,

> > > > psychopath-lunatic rages, abuse, realisty

> > shifting. She has

> > problems

> > > > keeping up the facade at home even when people

> > do visit, this is

> > > > where most of the people I know came to realize

> > the truth about

> > her.

> > > > But publicly, I can honestly say my Nada is

> > praised-almost

> > ADORED

> > > > for her charity work, her devotion to causes,

> > organizational

> > > > skills. " Oh, it must be wonderful to have a

> > mother like yours!

> > She's

> > > > SO inspiring! " ...Blah, blah, blah. GOD FORBID I

> > speak badly of

> > Saint

> > > > Nada! Speaking the truth only makes others pity

> > her and reflest

> > > > badly on me.

> > > >

> > > > I hope someday I experience the same

> > validation you have

> > .

> > > > Hope..but not holding my breath. I doubt anyone

> > will ever see

> > it.

> > > > Dishrag sure doesn't-a Harvard Law grad!! I

> > always have

> >

> > > > Crawford in the back of my mind-how villified

> > she was after

> > DARING

> > > > to put out such a vicious book slandering one of

> > America's best-

> > > > loved celebrities-her own MOTHER TOO! HORRERS!!

> > Even if she

> > hadn't

> > > > been famous our society still buys into the

> > fantasy that no one

> > but

> > > > lower classes have psychiatric problems. Unless

> > it is extremely

> > > > obvious, people for the middle and upper-classes

> > behavior is

> > > > excused. If yor famous-it's anything goes! And

> > LORD KNOWS, in

> > our

> > > > society saying anything negative against our

> > parents is treated

> > with

> > > > scorn and critism, in general. Honor thy father

> > and mother. Turn

> > the

> > > > other cheek. I'm sure they LOVE you,despite what

> > they say or do.

> > It

> > > > couldn't be THAT bad if you think about it...

> > > >

> > > > Sorry this message is becoming about me. I

> > think I've been

> > > > triggered, somehow. My depression is also

> > kicking-in before the

> > > > holidays have even begun this year. It may have

> > something to do

> > with

> > > > my discovery this year of the reality of Nada-

> > and processing

> > > > memories of a past I had forgotten about for 25

> > years. So many

> > > > losses I've had in my life-due to childhood

> > abuse that no one

> > will

> > > > ever accept is real. Knowing that forgetting the

> > past only

> > resulted

> > > > in re-living it over and over in other ways-and

> > blaming myself

> > for

> > > > doing so. If I do speak out, with my diagnosis,

> > Nada justs tells

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

_____________________________________________________________________

_______________

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> http://yahoo.degrees.info

>

November 21, 2006

Greg,

I'm there for you bruh! I know the Holidays aren't easy and I know

what they never were, we made them fun and enjoyable. This year I'm

making it fun and enjoyable but without blacking out things and

avoiding recall that makes blood ooze out of my ears(kidding, Louis

Black is to politics as Greg or is to Nada's with Christmas). I

know I've had my days since I've gone NC, one question I asked my

therapist is why am I ashamed of my past and why does this past hunt

me in the present. She let me answer it myself: I look back and see

all the chaos and can't explain all the opportunity lost and happiness

blown away. I know what has happened and I know that it is reference

for me to work with to acknowledge things and be aware of how I want

to live now. Nada's dilapidated construct has become a framework for

me to know what I want in my life. I'm not afraid of demanding things

that are rightfully mine. Like a happy Christmas.

I don't know what its like to have the holidays alone in the physical

sense, but I do remember me gazing out the window last year crying

thinking about idealized holidays of Christmas past, that is before

the BPD ship rolled and sent everybody in different directions. I

don't know if I'll ever have a Christmas where I'm not haunted by her

and my insane childhood, but the ones I have left give me hope because

out of this mess I have a recovering dishrag dad 12yrs NC (I'd say he

was more of sponge with lye because my mother couldn't dominate him,

until she pulled a knife on him then he got away and became reclusive

after the divorce) a sister that carries a bit of my mother's traits

as I do and a brother that is held at the way side by me for his

irrational thought that mom is a paradox of normalcy. If you've ever

seen the movie Under the Tuscan Sun, well that is what my life is a

lot like. It's that these interesting relationships of these

hodgepodge of persons in my life that keep growing; I'm in a new area

of the country total different from Michigan. During Easter I took my

first river boat ride, I laughed about it " what am I doing here? " I

love some of these individuals like family now that I'm able to

connect with people more deeply and freely. Hell, I consider you guys

like a family also, you especially Greg. On Christmas eve or

Thanksgiving when I miss some idealized thing and my heart aches

because of it or when I step outside to take a deep breath (because

its exhausting to be myself and comfortable in my own skin while

around an accepting, non-evil genius family, I have to remind myself

that there is no need for me to heighten the personal terror alert

system even though it's a crummy idea in the first place ). I'll think

of you guys and how were going through the same thing and I won't feel

so lonely anymore.

Greg you're a very likable guy and interesting too. Have you made some

good connections with individuals out your way? I want to see your

happiness as much as my own. Your in my thoughts. Thanks for being

there for me Greg.

3 months 11 days " NC "

> > >

> > > WOW I just got off the phone with the Doctor who I

> > had been going

> > > back and forth about calling back. Thanks so much

> > for the advice

> > > about whether to call her, you guys. I called her

> > back and I am

> > > really glad that I did.

> > >

> > > Turns out that this Dr is a psychiatrist. She

> > initially talked

> > > about how my nada cannot live alone because she

> > cannot ambulate.

> > > There was some discussion with one of her friends

> > in DE about her

> > > living there, but that fell through. Now they

> > want to know if

> > there

> > > is anything 'the family' can do to help or else

> > they will have to

> > > look into some other option for her living

> > arrangements.

> > >

> > > I told her under no circumstances was I going to

> > even talk to my

> > > nada no less take her in. Then we got into a

> > discussion about her

> > > mental problems. I told her that my nada has a

> > long standing

> > > diagnosis of bipolar disorder, but that I think

> > there is more

> > going

> > > on. When I said that, she immediately said " Are

> > you talking about

> > > Borderline Personality Disorder? " and I said " OH

> > MY GOD YES I

> > AM. "

> > >

> > > Anyway, she indicated that she was certainly aware

> > that my nada

> > was

> > > abusive. (Apparently she has been abusive to the

> > staff at the

> > > hospital, too.) She also said that BPD is part of

> > my nada's

> > > diagnosis, and that she had given my nada some

> > literature about

> > > modifying her behavior, but that nada (of course)

> > refused to admit

> > > that her problems in relationships were her own

> > doing (of course

> > > everyone else is the problem, certainly not her!)

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

> Sponsored Link

>

> Compare mortgage rates for today.

> Get up to 5 free quotes. www2.nextag.com

>

November 21, 2006

Yeah I also had enough of the Oprah, Dr.Phil play-by-play. I'm very

happy for you! I've taken that journey recently. I was very ill for a

good bit and then I given the remedy of therapy, phlosophy and this

resource to spell out the transformation I was making. If you do it

this might help: 1.be gentle with yourself and 2.the unknown is a

scary thing, even if it is TRUELY BETTER than what is known.

> > > > >

> > > > > -- ,

> > > > >

> > > > > That's wonderful, WONDERFUL news! After 32

> > > years of

> > > > > invalidation and guilt, you finally have

> > > proof-positive you were

> > > > > right-it wasn't you. It's sad that even after we

> > > are educated

> > > about

> > > > > BPD, and come to KNOW that they have the

> > > illness, we doubt out

> > > > > judgement until an outside professional source

> > > finally sees it

> > > too.

> > > > >

> > > > > I too have this syndrome. No matter how

> > > many times Nada re-

> > > > > enforces my conviction, I still slip into doubt.

> > > I guess I am

> > > still

> > > > > waiting for validation from a doctor, even

> > > though friends and

> > > > > collegues connected to Mental Health field all

> > > agree with me.

> > > The

> > > > > fact is she is the epitome of the gracious,

> > > upper-class

> > > socialite,

> > > > > and any " royal " tantrums and bullying is seen as

> > > just another

> > > > > idiocincracy of the spoiled rich-NOT a disorder.

> > > My Nada scarily

> > > > > resembles Joan Crawfords BPD pattern. No

> > > suicidal/self-abusive

> > > > > tendencies, which psychiatrists mistakenly,

> > > belive HAVE to be

> > > > > present to diagnose the disorder. She is Dr.

> > > Jeckel/Mr. Hyde-the

> > > > > perfectly poised public facade-every expression,

> > > every word,

> > > every

> > > > > action a brilliant performance. At home a

> > > manipulative, vicious,

> > > > > psychopath-lunatic rages, abuse, realisty

> > > shifting. She has

> > > problems

> > > > > keeping up the facade at home even when people

> > > do visit, this is

> > > > > where most of the people I know came to realize

> > > the truth about

> > > her.

> > > > > But publicly, I can honestly say my Nada is

> > > praised-almost

> > > ADORED

> > > > > for her charity work, her devotion to causes,

> > > organizational

> > > > > skills. " Oh, it must be wonderful to have a

> > > mother like yours!

> > > She's

> > > > > SO inspiring! " ...Blah, blah, blah. GOD FORBID I

> > > speak badly of

> > > Saint

> > > > > Nada! Speaking the truth only makes others pity

> > > her and reflest

> > > > > badly on me.

> > > > >

> > > > > I hope someday I experience the same

> > > validation you have

> > > .

> > > > > Hope..but not holding my breath. I doubt anyone

> > > will ever see

> > > it.

> > > > > Dishrag sure doesn't-a Harvard Law grad!! I

> > > always have

> > >

> > > > > Crawford in the back of my mind-how villified

> > > she was after

> > > DARING

> > > > > to put out such a vicious book slandering one of

> > > America's best-

> > > > > loved celebrities-her own MOTHER TOO! HORRERS!!

> > > Even if she

> > > hadn't

> > > > > been famous our society still buys into the

> > > fantasy that no one

> > > but

> > > > > lower classes have psychiatric problems. Unless

> > > it is extremely

> > > > > obvious, people for the middle and upper-classes

> > > behavior is

> > > > > excused. If yor famous-it's anything goes! And

> > > LORD KNOWS, in

> > > our

> > > > > society saying anything negative against our

> > > parents is treated

> > > with

> > > > > scorn and critism, in general. Honor thy father

> > > and mother. Turn

> > > the

> > > > > other cheek. I'm sure they LOVE you,despite what

> > > they say or do.

> > > It

> > > > > couldn't be THAT bad if you think about it...

> > > > >

> > > > > Sorry this message is becoming about me. I

> > > think I've been

> > > > > triggered, somehow. My depression is also

> > > kicking-in before the

> > > > > holidays have even begun this year. It may have

> > > something to do

> > > with

> > > > > my discovery this year of the reality of Nada-

> > > and processing

> > > > > memories of a past I had forgotten about for 25

> > > years. So many

> > > > > losses I've had in my life-due to childhood

> > > abuse that no one

> > > will

> > > > > ever accept is real. Knowing that forgetting the

> > > past only

> > > resulted

> > > > > in re-living it over and over in other ways-and

> > > blaming myself

> > > for

> > > > > doing so. If I do speak out, with my diagnosis,

> > > Nada justs tells

> > >

> > === message truncated ===

> >

> _____________________________________________________________________

> _______________

> > Sponsored Link

> >

> > Degrees online in as fast as 1 Yr

> > MBA, Bachelor's, Master's, Assoc

> > http://yahoo.degrees.info

> >

>

November 21, 2006

> > >

> > > > -- ,

> > > >

> > > > That's wonderful, WONDERFUL news! After 32

> > > > years of

> > > > invalidation and guilt, you finally have

> > > > proof-positive you were

> > > > right-it wasn't you. It's sad that even after we

> > are

> > > > educated about

> > > > BPD, and come to KNOW that they have the

> > illness, we

> > > > doubt out

> > > > judgement until an outside professional source

> > > > finally sees it too.

> > > >

> > > > I too have this syndrome. No matter how

> > many

> > > > times Nada re-

> > > > enforces my conviction, I still slip into doubt.

> > I

> > > > guess I am still

> > > > waiting for validation from a doctor, even

> > though

> > > > friends and

> > > > collegues connected to Mental Health field all

> > agree

> > > > with me. The

> > > > fact is she is the epitome of the gracious,

> > > > upper-class socialite,

> > > > and any " royal " tantrums and bullying is seen as

> > > > just another

> > > > idiocincracy of the spoiled rich-NOT a disorder.

> > My

> > > > Nada scarily

> > > > resembles Joan Crawfords BPD pattern. No

> > > > suicidal/self-abusive

> > > > tendencies, which psychiatrists mistakenly,

> > belive

> > > > HAVE to be

> > > > present to diagnose the disorder. She is Dr.

> > > > Jeckel/Mr. Hyde-the

> > > > perfectly poised public facade-every expression,

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

_____________________________________________________________________

_______________

> Sponsored Link

>

> Online or Campus degree Associate's, Bachelor's, or Master's

> in less than one year.www.findtherightschool.com

>

November 22, 2006

Ariel,

did you ever see " Delores Claiborne? " If not, there

is a wonderful line in there, " Sometimes an accident

can be a woman's (she was referring to her husband's

affairs) best friend. " hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Greg.

--- whitedkcats2 wrote:

> - Yes,she calls all day long at intervals. She's

> usually the first

> and last call of the day. Every phone we have has

> caller ID, so her

> calling doesn't mean I answer, and only after I

> screen her messages

> to seeif iwarrents a conversation. Even then, I

> don't really to talk

> TO her, she talks AT me. Most of the time neutral

> stuff, like a play-

> by-play of the latest Dr Phil Show, or her opinion

> of the new mail

> carrier. She either can't stand to be alone with her

> own thought, or

> she constantly needs an audience. I haven't really

> figured out

> which. A lot of the times our conversations start

> out in " human " and

> then eventually her voice fades into droning. You

> know, like all the

> adults sounded in the old " Charlie Brown "

> cartoons-Wah,wah, wha-wha-

> wha, WHA! People always comment how my father and I

> have the same

> inpenetrable attention-span. You can literally stand

> next to us and

> shout, when we're in the middle of doing something

> and we don't hear

> a thing. Sometimes it is literally impossible to NOT

> tune her out.

>

> At this point in my life, I'm sorry to say,

> speaking to her one

> time a week is about as probable as flying to the

> moon on a

> skateboard. That's why I've got to start making

> future plans to

> remove myself from this entanglement. I know it

> never will, just

> wishing and waiting for it to happen on it's own.

>

> Ariel

>

> -- In WTOAdultChildren1 , G

> wrote:

> >

> > Ariel,

> >

> > I am so happy to hear that your husband's sense of

> > humor helped you get out of nadaville!!!!!!!!!

> >

> > Yes!

> >

> > I didn't realize that she called you 3-5 times a

> day.

> > So did mine before I went n/c. She would call to

> tell

> > me how her cat was eating its cat food!!!!! No

> WONDER

> > I didn't have a life of my own. No wonder I

> didn't

> > feel or see myself ---MYSELF---- as IMPORTANT!

> Who

> > would when they have this other person invading on

> > their space, into their head, vying for first

> place.

> > I was so relieved to get her out of my life.

> Ariel,

> > if you do want to really get to know more of

> yourself,

> > if you're like me and a lot of people here, you

> could

> > set a boundary to limit the calls to one a week.

> In

> > truth, they never will keep it, but it's worth a

> try -

> > setting a boundary, following through with it,

> > reinforcing it, she suffers the consequences when

> she

> > breaks it, and you have more peace on earth!

> >

> > All my best,

> >

> > Greg.

> > --- whitedkcats2 wrote:

> >

> > > > and just generally expect us all to be her

> minions

> > > like we were

> > > hhen we were kids.

> > >

> > > Oh ! I just LOVE the word " Minions " !

> That

> > > is so,

> > > deliciously, appropriate for members of my FOO!

> Sort

> > > of flying

> > > monkey's to her wicked-witch-of-the-west. My

> oldest

> > > brother would

> > > make a GREAT flying monkey, always flying around

> her

> > > like a punch-

> > > drunk bat!. I'll remember to use this imagery

> for TG

> > > on thursday.

> > >

> > > A pot of coffee, and a shower and I feel

> 100%

> > > better-although

> > > that's really not saying I'm even close to

> normal.

> > > Just don't feel

> > > like slamming my head in a car door, anymore.

> > >

> > > Get this! Nada called this morning, not

> unusual

> > > as she calls me

> > > at least 3-5X every day! This time, I answered

> > > knowing that she

> > > wanted to give me the annual " instructions " as

> to

> > > what my role in

> > > this years TG festivities were. YEP-I'm in

> charge of

> > > making the

> > > pies, the rolls, and( ruining) the GREEN BEANS!!

> She

> > > sounded as if

> > > she was giving some sort of Honor! " THIS year I'm

> > > going to LET you do

> > > the Green Beans! " (Unlike to the last decade,

> when I

> > > did the Green

> > > Beans, Huh?!)

> > >

> > > Well, DH saw the number on the caller ID, and

> > > proceeded to go

> > > back and forth next to me in the kitchen doing

> his

> > > rendition of the

> > > song " Cruella DeVille " ; playing the air-trombone

> and

> > > high-kicking

> > > like a Russian soldier too!( he can be such a

> nut!).

> > > Nada's on the

> > > phone saying, " What is WRONG with him?! Why is

> he

> > > always singing

> > > that dreadful song! I would think he would have

> > > better things to do

> > > with his time then watching frivolous Disney

> movies!

> > > I think he

> > > should seriously consider contacting a mental

> health

> > > specialist.

> > > Your father knows some important ones, not like

> the

> > > " people " YOU

> > > know! " . The incredible thing was her words

> didn't

> > > even faze me, even

> > > after this morning! It was all I could do to

> keep

> > > from bursting out

> > > laughing!

> > >

> > > DH left for work and hour ago. I'm still

> > > chuckling! Maybe there's

> > > hope for this holiday after all! Just need to

> have a

> > > pot of coffee

> > > and a good laugh Thursday morning, before we

> head

> > > over there!

> > >

> > > Ariel

> > >

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > -- ,

> > > > >

> > > > > That's wonderful, WONDERFUL news! After

> 32

> > > years of

> > > > > invalidation and guilt, you finally have

> > > proof-positive you were

> > > > > right-it wasn't you. It's sad that even

> after we

> > > are educated

> > > about

> > > > > BPD, and come to KNOW that they have the

>

=== message truncated ===

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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November 22, 2006

Happy Thanksgiving, !!

Thank you for your caring thoughts and, as always,

your wise words. I love your perspective and LOL at

the Black analogy. It is sooo true; he is funny

and his truth is sharper than a scalpal ~ kinda like

ours with nada and Christmas. 3 months and 22 days

here! Thank you , God!! Even though I was sad about

accepting the loss of family this holiday, after

reading your post, I feel better and I was able to let

in and feel your sentiments. I agree that we make our

own family when ours is so messed up. And I feel like

you are part of my new, chosen family; you are a great

guy and very special to me, too, . I am working

on making friends here in Seattle and I care about

your happiness as much as mine, too. I hope you have

a great Thanksgiving tomorrow. You deserve it, so do

I, and will be sending Snoopy Dance Happiness your way

tomorrow.

Greg.

--- wrote:

> Greg,

>

> I'm there for you bruh! I know the Holidays aren't

> easy and I know

> what they never were, we made them fun and

> enjoyable. This year I'm

> making it fun and enjoyable but without blacking out

> things and

> avoiding recall that makes blood ooze out of my

> ears(kidding, Louis

> Black is to politics as Greg or is to Nada's

> with Christmas). I

> know I've had my days since I've gone NC, one

> question I asked my

> therapist is why am I ashamed of my past and why

> does this past hunt

> me in the present. She let me answer it myself: I

> look back and see

> all the chaos and can't explain all the opportunity

> lost and happiness

> blown away. I know what has happened and I know that

> it is reference

> for me to work with to acknowledge things and be

> aware of how I want

> to live now. Nada's dilapidated construct has become

> a framework for

> me to know what I want in my life. I'm not afraid of

> demanding things

> that are rightfully mine. Like a happy Christmas.

>

> I don't know what its like to have the holidays

> alone in the physical

> sense, but I do remember me gazing out the window

> last year crying

> thinking about idealized holidays of Christmas past,

> that is before

> the BPD ship rolled and sent everybody in different

> directions. I

> don't know if I'll ever have a Christmas where I'm

> not haunted by her

> and my insane childhood, but the ones I have left

> give me hope because

> out of this mess I have a recovering dishrag dad

> 12yrs NC (I'd say he

> was more of sponge with lye because my mother

> couldn't dominate him,

> until she pulled a knife on him then he got away and

> became reclusive

> after the divorce) a sister that carries a bit of

> my mother's traits

> as I do and a brother that is held at the way side

> by me for his

> irrational thought that mom is a paradox of

> normalcy. If you've ever

> seen the movie Under the Tuscan Sun, well that is

> what my life is a

> lot like. It's that these interesting relationships

> of these

> hodgepodge of persons in my life that keep growing;

> I'm in a new area

> of the country total different from Michigan. During

> Easter I took my

> first river boat ride, I laughed about it " what am I

> doing here? " I

> love some of these individuals like family now that

> I'm able to

> connect with people more deeply and freely. Hell, I

> consider you guys

> like a family also, you especially Greg. On

> Christmas eve or

> Thanksgiving when I miss some idealized thing and

> my heart aches

> because of it or when I step outside to take a deep

> breath (because

> its exhausting to be myself and comfortable in my

> own skin while

> around an accepting, non-evil genius family, I have

> to remind myself

> that there is no need for me to heighten the

> personal terror alert

> system even though it's a crummy idea in the first

> place ). I'll think

> of you guys and how were going through the same

> thing and I won't feel

> so lonely anymore.

>

> Greg you're a very likable guy and interesting too.

> Have you made some

> good connections with individuals out your way? I

> want to see your

> happiness as much as my own. Your in my thoughts.

> Thanks for being

> there for me Greg.

>

> 3 months 11 days " NC "

>

> >

> > > -- ,

> > >

> > > That's wonderful, WONDERFUL news! After 32

> > > years of

> > > invalidation and guilt, you finally have

> > > proof-positive you were

> > > right-it wasn't you. It's sad that even after we

> are

> > > educated about

> > > BPD, and come to KNOW that they have the

> illness, we

> > > doubt out

> > > judgement until an outside professional source

> > > finally sees it too.

> > >

> > > I too have this syndrome. No matter how

> many

> > > times Nada re-

> > > enforces my conviction, I still slip into doubt.

> I

> > > guess I am still

> > > waiting for validation from a doctor, even

> though

> > > friends and

> > > collegues connected to Mental Health field all

> agree

> > > with me. The

> > > fact is she is the epitome of the gracious,

> > > upper-class socialite,

> > > and any " royal " tantrums and bullying is seen as

> > > just another

> > > idiocincracy of the spoiled rich-NOT a disorder.

> My

> > > Nada scarily

> > > resembles Joan Crawfords BPD pattern. No

> > > suicidal/self-abusive

> > > tendencies, which psychiatrists mistakenly,

> belive

> > > HAVE to be

> > > present to diagnose the disorder. She is Dr.

> > > Jeckel/Mr. Hyde-the

> > > perfectly poised public facade-every expression,

>

=== message truncated ===

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Re: OH MY GOD finally a diagnosis- [Warning: Sorry Triggered!]

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