Re: Re: Stevia?/oxalates

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for taking the time to really flesh this out.

Any idea how the people who don' have any trouble gaining weight are

responding to the diet? My son is in no way suffering from inability to gain

weight. On the one hand, he doesn't seem like one of those severe " gut

kids " . On the other, his improvement on gfcf was so dramatic, I'm always

looking for ways to refine his diet, since it yields such results. So in a

way, he really is a gut kid.

Liz

>

> Reply-To: csb-autism-rx

> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 01:15:42 -0600

> To: csb-autism-rx

> Subject: Re: Re: Stevia?/oxalates

>

> Liz,

>

> Since I am the head of the oxalate project, perhaps I can answer you. We

> are still at the beginning of understanding the role of oxalates in

> producing symptoms seen in autism and we are still at the beginning of

> understanding how oxalates relate to the sulfur, methylation, yeast and

> dysbiosis issues seen in autism as well. Certainly, at this stage, we are

> learning the most from our moms who are noting the changes in their

> children that have been accomplished by lowering the oxalate content of the

> diet. Our findings have been a shock to the oxalate scientists, and we are

> now scrambling to get the science done to catch up with the experience. I

> don't think the diet is likely to become as orthodox as gf/cf until more

> have tried it and we have learned who improves and who doesn't, but right

> now, we don't know all that because we don't know the selection criteria

> doctors are using for their referrals. (Is is the short list, or the long

> one?)

>

> It is important to know that the same leaky gut that may make gluten and

> casein an issue is what makes oxalates an issue so I really do expect that

> the list of responders will be similar. Oxalates ARE absorbed when there

> is a leaky gut, gut inflammation, or steatorrhea. The literature on that

> is quite clear, which is why I started this project when I found that set

> of literature that told us we had really missed something that might be

> important. Now after so many GI docs have scoped children with autism,

> there isn't much debate that most kids with autism have GI issues or leaky

> guts.

>

> I'd also like to note that not everybody with a leaky gut has obvious GI

> problems. I had myself tested after I was already on the g/f c/f diet and

> had already experience a huge benefit from that diet. My peptiduria even

> at that stage still looked worse than the slide Shattock uses to show

> peptiduria in severe autism. I have never had any obvious GI issues and I

> don't know why I have a leaky gut, but I obviously do. Did it create

> oxalate issues for me?

>

> A few years ago, I had a minor heel injury that ended up being a major

> problem with continual pain in the years that followed, and I got some

> slight relief with B12 or magnesium, but it always came back and got me

> limping again. After I read the literature about how oxalates are also

> absorbed through a leaky gut, and when I heard that injuries to tissues are

> provoked and made worse by oxalates adhering to the site of injury, I

> thought it would be worthwhile for me to try lowering oxalates to see if it

> would help me get rid of the heel pain. Sure enough, with this minor

> change in diet, the pain in my heel vanished, but this time

> permanently. It has been almost seven months now with absolutely no hint

> of pain. This relief came after three years of limping and feeling like a

> very old woman.

>

> Science has determined the conditions that lead to excess absorption of

> oxalates. There have been loads of study on the potential consequences to

> the kidneys, but not much analysis has been done of the effects of

> absorbing excess oxalates to other organs of the body. Even so, it is

> known that oxalates collect in the thyroid causing hypothyroidism, in the

> pancreas, in the liver, in the heart, and even in the brain, In all these

> places, they can wreak havock....but doctors have not been trained to

> recognize these issues because no one had really thought that you could get

> a problem in these other organs unless you first had AWFUL problems in the

> kidneys. Work from the Vulvar Pain Foundation found otherwise, because the

> women improved in their vulvar pain on the diet, but they didn't have any

> kidney issues first. Their big surprise was that some women trying the low

> oxalate diet also saw improvements in conditions like fibromyalgia and

> chronic fatigue syndrome. Clearly, we have much to learn!

>

> I don't know what causes the GI issues in autism...maybe the original

> insult could vary from child to child. Even so, oxalates by their nature

> seem to find and exacerbate problems with inflammation wherever they find

> inflammation. Maybe uninjured tissues are rather exempt. That may be why

> absorbing excess oxalates will not produce the same problems in

> everybody....It may depend on where your injuries originally took place,

> and that could come from something as simple as an infection that

> concentrates on a particular organ.

>

> What there is no debate about is that oxalates are present in certain

> foods, and they do cross into circulation under situations of gut

> inflammation, leaky gut or steatorrhea. I will have to leave it to parents

> and doctors to decide whether one of those three situations apply, because

> those very simply are the reasons to consider a low oxalate diet, and to

> see if it will help to change things in the right direction.

>

> That said, part of this is tricky. When you reduce oxalates, this

> encourages cells in the body to release oxalates that have been stored in

> tissues. The symptoms of the release can be as bad or worse than the

> symptoms you experienced while you were eating oxalates. Gradually, as the

> body does release oxalates, and they are excreted or lost in the stool, you

> start to see improvements. Since we are only into the seventh month of

> this project, all we've seen so far is the effects in some children of

> seven months of dietary reduction of oxalates. and for most people the

> period they have been on the diet is much shorter.

>

> In people with genetic reasons that their own bodies produced excess

> oxalates, removing the offending liver and transplanting a good one,caused

> a release of oxalates from the rest of the body that sometimes took years

> to complete to the point where their blood levels were as low as a normal

> person. For that reason, we don't know how long is long enough in those

> who have been absorbing excess oxalates for a long time because of gut

> inflammation coupled with dietary choices. It does seem, though, at this

> point of hearing stories, that those who were on diets with high oxalates

> for a long time previous to reducing oxalates...they are the ones who find

> this putative " dumping oxalates " stage the most difficult because of added

> symptoms of bowel issues, periodontal issues or even eye pain as their

> bodies go into what we are assuming is the " release " stage. We are working

> very hard to develop testing that will help objectify these observations

> with some hard data.

>

> Right now there are almost 600 people on the low oxalate list, and most are

> coming from doctor's referrals. I don't know how many of those actually

> have started the diet, but this is a pretty good chunk of people to

> assemble together in just six months. The influx did not happen from the

> mention of this diet at the last DAN! conference, as we didn't really see a

> big influx at that time. It has actually been a very steady increase of

> people since we started with a bit of a slowdown at Christmas as people got

> busy.

>

>

>

> At 06:44 PM 1/16/2006 -0800, you wrote:

>> I'd like to know just how orthodox the idea of oxalates has become. Is this

>> something that is becoming accepted as something we all need to avoid? Or is

>> this like the SCD diet or the blood type diet­something that some of us find

>> works well, but isn't necessarily useful for everyone?

>>

>> As someone who responded very well to gfcf, I've never had a problem with

>> the list of foods described as high-oxalate, unless they're otherwise

>> contraindicated for me.

>>

>> Liz

>>

>>>

>>> Reply-To: csb-autism-rx

>>> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 22:14:41 -0000

>>> To: csb-autism-rx

>>> Subject: Re: Stevia?

>>>

>>> My thought (rationalization?) is that even if it has oxalates, the

>>> quantity used is so small that it may not be an appreciable dietary

>>> source.

>>> Suzanne

>>

>>

>>

>> Many frequently asked questions and answers can be found at

>> <http://forums.autism-rxguidebook.com/default.aspx>

>>

>>