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Re: Minimization Sucks!

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Ah, so my answer to that would be " well, I just don't want to see or

talk to her more than once a year, and so you should accept THAT "

>

> The most recent one I received from dishrag was " Well, that's just

> the way she is and I've accepted it. " The implication, loud and

> clear, is that I have to " accept " it, too. (His translation

> of " accept " is put up with her crap and never call her on it.)

>

> -Kyla

>

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I'm lucky I guess that my mom's BPD is atleast lessened by a

conscience and morals and she has said " I'm sorry " before. She

sincerely didn't know how to be a mother and did some pretty

horrible things. Which, she seems to have forgotten. But, she

can apologize at times when things are pointed out to her. Other

times though she's just cruel.

> >

> > Yes it does! OK, let's solve this once and for all! Has anyone

here

> > EVER received a sincere apology/admittance of wrongdoing from

their

> > BPD parent? Or even from the nonBPD parent about the BPD parent?

> > Anyone? Bueler?

> >

> > I know when my momster browbeat me into telling her " why do you

hate

> > me " , when I told her one incident that hurt me, she laughed in my

> > face. BTW, " why do you hate me " was my punishment for

saying " Mom, I

> > know you're angry at my aunt, but it feels like you're yelling

at me

> > and I can't listen anymore, so maybe you should contact a

therapist "

> > after listening to her for 15 minutes say " she has no morals.

she has

> > no values. she has no scruples. she has no morals. she has no

values.

> > she has no scruples......etc "

> >

> > So my punishment for refusing to let her puke her anger on me

was for

> > her to laugh at my pain!

> >

>

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yes, I expect I will get this this summer when we go there for his 85th

birthday...but I'll say " well *I* don't have to "

Jackie

The most recent one I received from dishrag was " Well, that's just

the way she is and I've accepted it. " The implication, loud and

clear, is that I have to " accept " it, too. (His translation

of " accept " is put up with her crap and never call her on it.)

-Kyla

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This is what I got from the foo. Just accept it, she isn't going to

change. They must be getting a very big payoff from accepting it.

Sylvia

>

> The most recent one I received from dishrag was " Well, that's just

> the way she is and I've accepted it. " The implication, loud and

> clear, is that I have to " accept " it, too. (His translation

> of " accept " is put up with her crap and never call her on it.)

>

> -Kyla

>.....

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Yup, that's a definite LOL. -

sleddog wrote: LOL yeah, me too...and looking back,

isn't that almost funny, in a sick way

??

Jackie

Never. Although I have apologized to her for putting her in the position

that made her feel like she had to lash out at me. -

---------------------------------

Ahhh...imagining that irresistible " new car " smell?

Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

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UGGGGH! i used to get " she cant help it! "

nan

>

> I never received acknowledgement or apology from my father - just

> the global statements of 'she doesn't mean it', 'don't upset her',

> etc.

>

> Sylvia

>

>

> all my life dad has always said those things, " you know she loves

you " HOW

> would I know that ??? " she doesn't mean it " etc, but 3 years ago

his eyes

> opened ( they have since shut again, though ) and he did say he was

sorry

> for not protecting us from her and for letting hr get away with

this

> behavior....so he KNOWS!! he's just back in the comfortable

denial again

> :-(

>

> Jackie

>

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Hi Kyla, Sylvia, Jackie, and All,

Yes, the minimization sucked big time. For me,

minimization is part of DENIAL. The worst thing my

dishrag-and-as-abusive-in-his-denial-as-my-nada did

was tell me hundreds of times, " Don't hate your

mother. " By the time I was a teenager, I had a

MOUNTAIN of rage piled up about her abuse and her

enablement of the rest of my FOO's abuse of me. It

took me MANY YEARS to get rid of and work through that

rage, which remains in my psyche as smoldering

remnants of the thousands of fires of abuse I tried to

avoid and codependently put out in my childhood and

teen years with my FOO. I finally realized last year,

because of the good people in this group, that it was

worse for the long-term than the overt abuse.

Like many of you, I work every day to continue

recovering and rewire my brain to maintain good

self-esteem, calm my soul, get some serenity back and

let go of those thoughts and feelings. To this day, I

have a very low bull**** tolerance level. Since much

of regular communication and conversation has bull****

in it, from advertising to politics to social talk and

more, I’m regularly challenged about this. I know

most people usually don’t even register minimization

and other bull****. For me, red flags quickly start

waving and bells go off. I’ve still got a lot of work

to do on me.

Funny but not-so-funny, when I see overt abuse, like a

caregiver talking unnecessarily harshly to a child,

that’s a no-brainer for me about being inappropriate

and abusive, and I can easily understand and deal with

that because, among other things, I know my anger

about it is appropriate. I’ve made tremendous

progress since joining this group a while back, but

when I hear someone bull****ing me or a child, I’ve

still got to go somewhere else and calm down as soon

as possible before my irritation or mild anger becomes

strong anger. I know how to and do it, but I still

often resent that I have to do it. That’s part of my

fada’s legacy of minimization to me, and work I still

have to do. You all understand, don’t you?

One Non-BP Recovering Man

--- kylaboo728 wrote:

> Good post, Sylvia. Your words resonate with me,

> too.

>

> " Having nada and dishrag totally ignore the

> truth of what was happening in our family was the

> biggest betrayal

> to me. "

> That statement hit me between the eyes -- I keep

> trying to put my

> finger on what is so hurtful to me about our family

> dynamic. I

> think you captured it!

>

> My nada's apologies are subtle -- if at all. After

> she threw me out

> of the house back in my college days, her " apology "

> was a meek " I

> don't know what got into me. " A statement, which,

> if you think

> about it, tries to enlist the sympathy of the victim

> for the

> perpetrator, and not the other way around!

>

> Also, it bears mentioning that she STILL had dishrag

> make to call to

> get me to come home. If she had gotten ahold of

> herself, realized

> the horrible thing she'd done, taken responsibility

> for cleaning up

> her own mess (with me), then I would have probably

> been able to

> forgive her. But she and dishrag kept the spotlight

> and sympathy on

> HER. He " betrayed " me, as you aptly put it, by

> further chastising

> me for daring to call her " crazy " as I left the

> house.

>

> Like I said, you captured it: It was a BETRAYAL.

> They stood

> together, and I was out in the cold. It's only

> taken me 20+ years

> to see it!

>

> (hugs)

> Kyla

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Yes it does! OK, let's solve this once and for

> all! Has anyone

> > here

> > > EVER received a sincere apology/admittance of

> wrongdoing from

> their

> > > BPD parent? Or even from the nonBPD parent

> about the BPD parent?

> > > Anyone? Bueler?

> > >

> > > I know when my momster browbeat me into telling

> her " why do you

> > hate

> > > me " , when I told her one incident that hurt me,

> she laughed in my

> > > face. BTW, " why do you hate me " was my

> punishment for

> > saying " Mom, I

> > > know you're angry at my aunt, but it feels like

> you're yelling

> at

> > me

> > > and I can't listen anymore, so maybe you should

> contact a

> > therapist "

> > > after listening to her for 15 minutes say " she

> has no morals.

> she

> > has

> > > no values. she has no scruples. she has no

> morals. she has no

> > values.

> > > she has no scruples......etc "

> > >

> > > So my punishment for refusing to let her puke

> her anger on me

> was

> > for

> > > her to laugh at my pain!

> > >

> >

>

>

>

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gosh yes thats where i been at for years. getting over the physical

and emotional abuse itself was a peice of cake compared to dealng

with the continuing enablement, denial and gerneral FOG thath the FOO

dals out. as if i am a sacrificial lamb with one pourpose in life.

I sat down and wrote each one of my FOO relatives a leter outlining

how abusive Nada was and what they each did to hurt me and encourage

the abuse. I got different reactions. or none at all. They still

wanted me to " Find it in my heart " , " shes your mother " , " she misses

you " or one time i had to phone my aunt asking what was going on tha

was so important because nada was trying to call me again (at dads

house, of course i'd hang up) this was AFTER i explained to ALL of

them why and how i went NC. Auntie had the gall to say " oh honey do

you want me to give you her number so you can call her? "

gggaaaaagggggh! I just said NO way as THAT relation ship was over and

you all should figure that out by now. she just said " okie dokey? "

anyways what i am trying to say if this is any help is that if you

can find a way to confront each and every relative on your own terms

what she did and what they could have done. (but dont come to them

with tears and pain - they wont believe you) They will deny, ignore,

or pay you lip service etc, or even run tell nada eveything. Then of

course she will just say you are exagerrating, etc and say more

things to discredit you. But my point is you have stood up for your

self and told them for your own peice of mind. That is where i am at

now. And i feel better and better each day about it. It doesnt matter

so muchto me what they think of me it matters what i think of me.

They are not going to be there for you so why should you care what

they think.

nan

throw to the

> > > >

> > > > Yes it does! OK, let's solve this once and for

> > all! Has anyone

> > > here

> > > > EVER received a sincere apology/admittance of

> > wrongdoing from

> > their

> > > > BPD parent? Or even from the nonBPD parent

> > about the BPD parent?

> > > > Anyone? Bueler?

> > > >

> > > > I know when my momster browbeat me into telling

> > her " why do you

> > > hate

> > > > me " , when I told her one incident that hurt me,

> > she laughed in my

> > > > face. BTW, " why do you hate me " was my

> > punishment for

> > > saying " Mom, I

> > > > know you're angry at my aunt, but it feels like

> > you're yelling

> > at

> > > me

> > > > and I can't listen anymore, so maybe you should

> > contact a

> > > therapist "

> > > > after listening to her for 15 minutes say " she

> > has no morals.

> > she

> > > has

> > > > no values. she has no scruples. she has no

> > morals. she has no

> > > values.

> > > > she has no scruples......etc "

> > > >

> > > > So my punishment for refusing to let her puke

> > her anger on me

> > was

> > > for

> > > > her to laugh at my pain!

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest guest

" Well, it served you right " was the one I heard the most and still do in lieu of

an apology. Recently, with a push from my husband, I bought a new car...my dream

car. A cherry red mustang... (excuse me I'm drooling) I never thought I'd

actually own one, that was never a " realistic " expectation for me... dreams are

just dreams, they don't happen for real... or so I thought for so many years. I

was vey nervous about nada finding out. I hid it for a while from my family.

When they know something, nada will soon find out. Once she did, and she

actually saw the car, she said(hesitantly and slightly snobishly) " Well... It

serves you right " . Of all the things to say! It actually fit that time. Who

knew!? :)

Re: Minimization Sucks!

" Yes it does! OK, let's solve this once and for all! Has anyone here

EVER received a sincere apology/admittance of wrongdoing from their

BPD parent? Or even from the nonBPD parent about the BPD parent?

Anyone? Bueler? "

NEVER! Nada constantly gaslights me and my brother, saying we make

this stuff up, and that our memories are tainted or poisoned. Then she

throws up the whole " nobody's perfect " or " I never did that " or " you

kids had it pretty good " or " you guys turned out all right, and I think

I had something to do with that " or " why can't you just let it go "

or " that's in the past " . Deny, gaslight, minimize, rinse, repeat.

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> Recently, with a push from my husband, I bought a new car...my dream car.

> A cherry red mustang... (excuse me I'm drooling) I never thought I'd

> actually own one, that was >never a " realistic " expectation for me...

> dreams are just dreams, they don't happen for >real...

congratulations !! my hubby wants an ice blue one !! and dreams can come

true, they're realistic....fantasies are what never come true..

>Once she did, and she actually saw the car, she said(hesitantly and

>slightly snobishly) " Well... It serves you right " . Of all the things to

>say! It actually fit that time. Who >knew!? :)

what a weird thing to say...you should have come back with " thanks, I do

deserve it ! "

Jackie

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My nada's favorite line when confronted on her behavior is, " I am

really sorry that you feel that way. " Uggh!! No accountability on

her part whatsoever! It's infuriating.

You are a better person than I am for letting go and moving forward.

I don't know if I will ever totally let go of my desire for my

parents to get how they caused my NC decision.

patinage

> >

> > I never received acknowledgement or apology from my father - just

> > the global statements of 'she doesn't mean it', 'don't upset her',

> > etc.

> >

> > Sylvia

> >

> >

> > all my life dad has always said those things, " you know she loves

> you " HOW

> > would I know that ??? " she doesn't mean it " etc, but 3 years ago

> his eyes

> > opened ( they have since shut again, though ) and he did say he

was

> sorry

> > for not protecting us from her and for letting hr get away with

this

> > behavior....so he KNOWS!! he's just back in the comfortable

denial

> again

> > :-(

> >

> > Jackie

> >

>

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dasn my nada wouldnt be THAT nice. She says, " YOU made me " , or if you

react to anything she says and does " you need to get over that

destructiveness "

urrrgh

nan

> > >

> > > I never received acknowledgement or apology from my father -

just

> > > the global statements of 'she doesn't mean it', 'don't upset

her',

> > > etc.

> > >

> > > Sylvia

> > >

> > >

> > > all my life dad has always said those things, " you know she

loves

> > you " HOW

> > > would I know that ??? " she doesn't mean it " etc, but 3 years

ago

> > his eyes

> > > opened ( they have since shut again, though ) and he did say he

> was

> > sorry

> > > for not protecting us from her and for letting hr get away with

> this

> > > behavior....so he KNOWS!! he's just back in the comfortable

> denial

> > again

> > > :-(

> > >

> > > Jackie

> > >

> >

>

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Oh, my nada is exactly the same!... " YOU made me this way! I was so

sweet before I had you! " or " Nobody is perfect, you need to get over

it! " is also as close as she's ever come to apologizing.

Becky

>

>

>

>

>

>

> dasn my nada wouldnt be THAT nice. She says, " YOU made me " , or if you

> react to anything she says and does " you need to get over that

> destructiveness "

> urrrgh

>

> nan

> > > >

> > > > I never received acknowledgement or apology from my father -

> just

> > > > the global statements of 'she doesn't mean it', 'don't upset

> her',

> > > > etc.

> > > >

> > > > Sylvia

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > all my life dad has always said those things, " you know she

> loves

> > > you " HOW

> > > > would I know that ??? " she doesn't mean it " etc, but 3 years

> ago

> > > his eyes

> > > > opened ( they have since shut again, though ) and he did say he

> > was

> > > sorry

> > > > for not protecting us from her and for letting hr get away with

> > this

> > > > behavior....so he KNOWS!! he's just back in the comfortable

> > denial

> > > again

> > > > :-(

> > > >

> > > > Jackie

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

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Although this " may " sound unrelated, I felt compelled to write that I'm

first, an ONLY CHILD. For years I fantasized having sibling(s) and the

possible potential that would have for taking some of the heat off of

me...or realistically, DISPERSING some of the energy which came to roost

squarely on me. Once when I asked why she never had but me, I was told,

" You were too much for me, so why would I want any more? " You have to

understand that when she said that, I was the PERFECT child...the MODEL

child...NEVER doing ANYTHING wrong...truly...'cuz I wouldn't DARE.

SO...how could my perfection be challenged by this statement? I don't

recall, exactly when this all went down, but I had to have been

somewhere around 15 or so.

Upon reflecting on this, I now realize how hurt I was and how this

greatly impacted the once PERFECT child. Gawd, the things we had to

endure, huh?

> > > > >

> > > > > I never received acknowledgement or apology from my father -

> > just

> > > > > the global statements of 'she doesn't mean it', 'don't upset

> > her',

> > > > > etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sylvia

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > all my life dad has always said those things, " you know she

> > loves

> > > > you " HOW

> > > > > would I know that ??? " she doesn't mean it " etc, but 3 years

> > ago

> > > > his eyes

> > > > > opened ( they have since shut again, though ) and he did say

he

> > > was

> > > > sorry

> > > > > for not protecting us from her and for letting hr get away

with

> > > this

> > > > > behavior....so he KNOWS!! he's just back in the comfortable

> > > denial

> > > > again

> > > > > :-(

> > > > >

> > > > > Jackie

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

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Yes they say the most thoughtless selfish things. nada told me " you

have allways been dificult " meaning she could not have complete

control over my every thought, breath and action.

nan

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I never received acknowledgement or apology from my

father -

> > > just

> > > > > > the global statements of 'she doesn't mean it', 'don't

upset

> > > her',

> > > > > > etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sylvia

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > all my life dad has always said those things, " you know

she

> > > loves

> > > > > you " HOW

> > > > > > would I know that ??? " she doesn't mean it " etc, but 3

years

> > > ago

> > > > > his eyes

> > > > > > opened ( they have since shut again, though ) and he did

say

> he

> > > > was

> > > > > sorry

> > > > > > for not protecting us from her and for letting hr get

away

> with

> > > > this

> > > > > > behavior....so he KNOWS!! he's just back in the

comfortable

> > > > denial

> > > > > again

> > > > > > :-(

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jackie

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

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Nan ... well put ... her control issues, well, let's just leave it at

that. I still believe she controls me from the grave on occasion!!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I never received acknowledgement or apology from my

> father -

> > > > just

> > > > > > > the global statements of 'she doesn't mean it', 'don't

> upset

> > > > her',

> > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sylvia

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > all my life dad has always said those things, " you know

> she

> > > > loves

> > > > > > you " HOW

> > > > > > > would I know that ??? " she doesn't mean it " etc, but 3

> years

> > > > ago

> > > > > > his eyes

> > > > > > > opened ( they have since shut again, though ) and he did

> say

> > he

> > > > > was

> > > > > > sorry

> > > > > > > for not protecting us from her and for letting hr get

> away

> > with

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > behavior....so he KNOWS!! he's just back in the

> comfortable

> > > > > denial

> > > > > > again

> > > > > > > :-(

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jackie

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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> > > > > >

> > > > > > I never received acknowledgement or apology from my

father -

> > > just

> > > > > > the global statements of 'she doesn't mean it', 'don't

upset

> > > her',

> > > > > > etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sylvia

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > all my life dad has always said those things, " you know

she

> > > loves

> > > > > you " HOW

> > > > > > would I know that ??? " she doesn't mean it " etc, but 3

years

> > > ago

> > > > > his eyes

> > > > > > opened ( they have since shut again, though ) and he did

say

> he

> > > > was

> > > > > sorry

> > > > > > for not protecting us from her and for letting hr get

away

> with

> > > > this

> > > > > > behavior....so he KNOWS!! he's just back in the

comfortable

> > > > denial

> > > > > again

> > > > > > :-(

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jackie

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

my mother's favorite line is: " I'm sorry you feel that way. " She gives

it to me all the time. She has even admitted she loves to use it

because it " suggests that I'm listening to you, but allows me to

refuse ownership of other people's problems. "

But her ANTHEM has to be " I did it all for YOU. If it hadn't been for

your father I would have been the perfect mother! I am in the

pathetic state I am in today because I sacrificed everything for YOU.

You OWE me because if it weren't for me you'd be living in the

streets, on drugs, and/or dead! " (It doesn't dawn on her that I am

not in those places DESPITE her!)

This is why we call her, " Cleopatra, Queen of Denial. "

Here's another recent issue: everyone on her side of the family

suffers from heart problems. She had a heart attack in 1990 and to

this day swears that it was simply a nervous breakdown and the doctor

was making the heart attack up so he could get more money out of her.

Last week her brother had chest pains, went to the hospital, and

ended up getting a quadruple bipass surgery. She wears he didn't need

it, there is no such thing as heart disease- it is a myth made up by

doctors so they can make more money. She is furious that the doctors

put him through such a dangerous surgery just so they could make a

few bucks and she is SUPER furious at us for not jumping on her

bandwagon- we must not care about her brother as much as she does!

Also, she has COPD and emphasema, and smokes like a chimney. She

can't hardly walk- sits in her chair all day smoking and watching TV-

but she insists that there is no such thing as health problems

associated with smoking (including cancer!) and that the " PC people "

are just making it up to make smokers look bad. She says it's

prejudice adn that there is nothing wrong with her. She also said she

is not worried about her health (she is 59) because she knows when

she gets " really bad " that I will quit college and move back home

(3000 miles away) to take care of her! Boy, is she in for a

surprise!!!

Okay, I'm done venting. Thanks for the soap box. :)

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Hello,

That is horrible and i cringed when I read it. I had those same things said

to me. I have always felt guilty just for being alive. It's so horrible. And I

know what you mean about being perfect that you wouldn't dare start trouble.

Just want you to know someone totally believes you! I always felt like I had to

defend myself all the time so people wouldn't believe her lies.

Anyway, hope it helps

westwindspirit wrote:

Yes they say the most thoughtless selfish things. nada told me " you

have allways been dificult " meaning she could not have complete

control over my every thought, breath and action.

nan

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I never received acknowledgement or apology from my

father -

> > > just

> > > > > > the global statements of 'she doesn't mean it', 'don't

upset

> > > her',

> > > > > > etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sylvia

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > all my life dad has always said those things, " you know

she

> > > loves

> > > > > you " HOW

> > > > > > would I know that ??? " she doesn't mean it " etc, but 3

years

> > > ago

> > > > > his eyes

> > > > > > opened ( they have since shut again, though ) and he did

say

> he

> > > > was

> > > > > sorry

> > > > > > for not protecting us from her and for letting hr get

away

> with

> > > > this

> > > > > > behavior....so he KNOWS!! he's just back in the

comfortable

> > > > denial

> > > > > again

> > > > > > :-(

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jackie

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

---------------------------------

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Oh yes, I totally understand that! I was a " good girl " too and she

still hated me! My MERE EXISTENCE filled her with such anger, hatred

and disgust. It was all over her face, and she saved that face just

for me.

It really wasn't that I, or you, did anything wrong. It was just that

they could not handle their own emotions, and so they sure couldn't

properly care for another person.

-Deanna

>

> Although this " may " sound unrelated, I felt compelled to write that I'm

> first, an ONLY CHILD. For years I fantasized having sibling(s) and the

> possible potential that would have for taking some of the heat off of

> me...or realistically, DISPERSING some of the energy which came to roost

> squarely on me. Once when I asked why she never had but me, I was told,

> " You were too much for me, so why would I want any more? " You have to

> understand that when she said that, I was the PERFECT child...the MODEL

> child...NEVER doing ANYTHING wrong...truly...'cuz I wouldn't DARE.

> SO...how could my perfection be challenged by this statement? I don't

> recall, exactly when this all went down, but I had to have been

> somewhere around 15 or so.

>

> Upon reflecting on this, I now realize how hurt I was and how this

> greatly impacted the once PERFECT child. Gawd, the things we had to

> endure, huh?

>

>

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yes i know what you mean. and when you find yourself being so

defensive about what is true, even to normal people then because of

how anxious you apear, they tend not to beleive you! urrrrgh

nan

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I never received acknowledgement or apology from my

> father -

> > > > just

> > > > > > > the global statements of 'she doesn't mean it', 'don't

> upset

> > > > her',

> > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sylvia

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > all my life dad has always said those things, " you know

> she

> > > > loves

> > > > > > you " HOW

> > > > > > > would I know that ??? " she doesn't mean it " etc, but 3

> years

> > > > ago

> > > > > > his eyes

> > > > > > > opened ( they have since shut again, though ) and he

did

> say

> > he

> > > > > was

> > > > > > sorry

> > > > > > > for not protecting us from her and for letting hr get

> away

> > with

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > behavior....so he KNOWS!! he's just back in the

> comfortable

> > > > > denial

> > > > > > again

> > > > > > > :-(

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jackie

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Give spam the boot. Take control with tough spam protection

> in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

>

>

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I hear you with dispersing the nada misery. That is a bummer that

you had to take it on all by yourself. You were probably the black

and white sheep of the family all at the same time. I was the last

of 3 kids and when my 2nd brother went off to college, I was left to

be my mom's counselor and confidant all by myself. It was the worst

2 yrs of my life. I developed an eating disorder during this time.

It is hard enough to be a teenager, then add the responsibility of

raising your parent and meeting their emotional needs on top of it is

a recipe that will mess up a kid.

patinage

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I never received acknowledgement or apology from my

> father -

> > > > just

> > > > > > > the global statements of 'she doesn't mean it', 'don't

> upset

> > > > her',

> > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sylvia

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > all my life dad has always said those things, " you

know

> she

> > > > loves

> > > > > > you " HOW

> > > > > > > would I know that ??? " she doesn't mean it " etc, but 3

> years

> > > > ago

> > > > > > his eyes

> > > > > > > opened ( they have since shut again, though ) and he

did

> say

> > he

> > > > > was

> > > > > > sorry

> > > > > > > for not protecting us from her and for letting hr get

> away

> > with

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > behavior....so he KNOWS!! he's just back in the

> comfortable

> > > > > denial

> > > > > > again

> > > > > > > :-(

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jackie

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> my mother's favorite line is: " I'm sorry you feel that way. " She

gives

> it to me all the time. She has even admitted she loves to use it

> because it " suggests that I'm listening to you, but allows me to

> refuse ownership of other people's problems. "

>

> But her ANTHEM has to be " I did it all for YOU. If it hadn't been

for

> your father I would have been the perfect mother! I am in the

> pathetic state I am in today because I sacrificed everything for

YOU.

> You OWE me because if it weren't for me you'd be living in the

> streets, on drugs, and/or dead! " (It doesn't dawn on her that I am

> not in those places DESPITE her!)

>

> This is why we call her, " Cleopatra, Queen of Denial. "

>

> Here's another recent issue: everyone on her side of the family

> suffers from heart problems. She had a heart attack in 1990 and to

> this day swears that it was simply a nervous breakdown and the

doctor

> was making the heart attack up so he could get more money out of

her.

>

> Last week her brother had chest pains, went to the hospital, and

> ended up getting a quadruple bipass surgery. She wears he didn't

need

> it, there is no such thing as heart disease- it is a myth made up

by

> doctors so they can make more money. She is furious that the

doctors

> put him through such a dangerous surgery just so they could make a

> few bucks and she is SUPER furious at us for not jumping on her

> bandwagon- we must not care about her brother as much as she does!

>

> Also, she has COPD and emphasema, and smokes like a chimney. She

> can't hardly walk- sits in her chair all day smoking and watching

TV-

> but she insists that there is no such thing as health problems

> associated with smoking (including cancer!) and that the " PC

people "

> are just making it up to make smokers look bad. She says it's

> prejudice adn that there is nothing wrong with her. She also said

she

> is not worried about her health (she is 59) because she knows when

> she gets " really bad " that I will quit college and move back home

> (3000 miles away) to take care of her! Boy, is she in for a

> surprise!!!

>

> Okay, I'm done venting. Thanks for the soap box. :)

>

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Deanna,

You said it so well, you must've known my nada, sorry!

I got it from more than one person in my FOO. Anyone

else here get that " MERE EXISTANCE " treatment from

more than one person in their FOO? If so, how many

people and, (if you feel comfortable saying it) what

was their role (nada, fada, sibling, aunt, uncle,

etc.)?

One Non-BP Recovering Man

--- vegdeanna wrote:

> Oh yes, I totally understand that! I was a " good

> girl " too and she

> still hated me! My MERE EXISTENCE filled her with

> such anger, hatred

> and disgust. It was all over her face, and she

> saved that face just

> for me.

>

> It really wasn't that I, or you, did anything wrong.

> It was just that

> they could not handle their own emotions, and so

> they sure couldn't

> properly care for another person.

>

> -Deanna

>

>

> >

> > Although this " may " sound unrelated, I felt

> compelled to write that I'm

> > first, an ONLY CHILD. For years I fantasized

> having sibling(s) and the

> > possible potential that would have for taking some

> of the heat off of

> > me...or realistically, DISPERSING some of the

> energy which came to roost

> > squarely on me. Once when I asked why she never

> had but me, I was told,

> > " You were too much for me, so why would I want any

> more? " You have to

> > understand that when she said that, I was the

> PERFECT child...the MODEL

> > child...NEVER doing ANYTHING wrong...truly...'cuz

> I wouldn't DARE.

> > SO...how could my perfection be challenged by this

> statement? I don't

> > recall, exactly when this all went down, but I had

> to have been

> > somewhere around 15 or so.

> >

> > Upon reflecting on this, I now realize how hurt I

> was and how this

> > greatly impacted the once PERFECT child. Gawd,

> the things we had to

> > endure, huh?

> >

> >

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

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oh geez, grustel, jackie, silvia..... it's always so bittersweet to

hear the uncanny similarities we all have. i understand the only child

thing - it's awful to feel so invalidated and so alone. the

minimization crap sucks, too. i was in a pretty bad haze of depression

all throughout highschool - and i kept telling nada that i felt sad

all the time and all i did was sleep. she laughed at me and said that

it would be impossible to be happy all the time and that i had nothing

to be sad about, otherwise i would be crazy. funny advice coming from

a crazy person.

love to you guys (gals),

christine.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I never received acknowledgement or apology from my father -

> > > just

> > > > > > the global statements of 'she doesn't mean it', 'don't upset

> > > her',

> > > > > > etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sylvia

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > all my life dad has always said those things, " you know she

> > > loves

> > > > > you " HOW

> > > > > > would I know that ??? " she doesn't mean it " etc, but 3 years

> > > ago

> > > > > his eyes

> > > > > > opened ( they have since shut again, though ) and he did say

> he

> > > > was

> > > > > sorry

> > > > > > for not protecting us from her and for letting hr get away

> with

> > > > this

> > > > > > behavior....so he KNOWS!! he's just back in the comfortable

> > > > denial

> > > > > again

> > > > > > :-(

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jackie

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

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As an only child, I always wanted a sibling who would agree with me that our

upbringing had far too much craziness involved!

is

---------------------------------

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not all of them would...so you may have one like my oldest brother, who is

nadas favorite child...he was not treated as badly as the rest, and he

refuses to talk about it...he calls his mommy every week, he's a mama's boy.

he does what she tells him to do...and gushes over her..(even when I did

what I was told to do, I was still the hated child..) but it IS nice to

talk with my sisters as they had the same experiences I did with the Evil

One...my other brother did too, but he died before I knew about BPD and

NPD...although I do think the 5 of us had her " thinned " out..but I was the

last, and got it all the last years I was and " only child " before I left..

Jackie

As an only child, I always wanted a sibling who would agree with me that our

upbringing had far too much craziness involved!

is

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