Guest guest Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 In a message dated 3/18/2004 12:59:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, AngiesHerbarie@... writes: classical bar soap I guess this is commercial beef fat soap? Andree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 In a message dated 3/18/04 2:16:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, AndreeTerry@... writes: > classical bar soap > > I guess this is commercial beef fat soap? > Hi Andree, I don't know, it could be. But you make a good point, we may be comparing apples and oranges when we look at the " classical bar soaps " and some of the veggie super-fatted soaps. I'm not aware of any studies that specifically state a comparison between the superfatted ones and the others. Who knows, maybe it makes a difference? There's certainly lots of anectodal evidence to support that it does Angie The Herbarie Natural Source Ingredients for Toiletries & Cosmetics http://www.theherbarie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 Hi Angie, I already buy from you and love your stuff. I agree that some of the new surfactants are wonderful, especially after battling trying to make an acceptable liquid soap (using potassium hydroxide) that was gentle but not sticky. I gave up after many months of frustration. The problem with the initial question is that it mentioned surfactants and chemicals. I actually tried to steer towards a commentary on classic 'lye' soap vs. detergents. As for chemicals, I am through talking to anyone who wants a product without chemicals, as EVERYTHING is composed of chemicals, both natural and synthetic. (I know no one on this list would make such a faux pas, but I hear it all the time...) But a comparison of 'soaps' is not sufficiently specific to make a valid argument. This is my list of ingredients for Ivory soap: sodium cocoyl isethionate paraffin sodium cocogylceryl ether glycerin water magnesium stearate stearic acid magnesium carbonate coconut acid sodium isethionate sodium sulfate sodium chloride magnesium laurate lauric acid sodium laurate trisodium etidronate masking fragrance (in a soap claiming to be unscented) PEG-90M titanium dioxide In comparing to my INCI files, I don't see any classic soap in this. How about Dove? Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate Stearic Acid Sodium Tallowate (beef tallow soap) Water Sodium Isethionate Coconut Acid Sodium Stearate Cocamidopropyl Betaine Sodium Cocoate or Sodium Palm Kernelate (coconut oil soap or palm kernel oil soap) Fragrance Sodium Chloride Titanium Dioxide Tetrasodium EDTA Trisodium Etidronate BHT Sodium Dodecylbenzenesulfonate I would never touch beef tallow in a body soap, it is too drying -- the industry uses it as a by-product of the beef industry, so it is very cheap. As for Coconut oil and PKO, they are standard ingredients in CP soap for hardness and lather, but rarely does one use them alone. As an example, I would add 25-35% olive to the coconut and PKO and probably some castor or shea or something else that is rich and distinctive (not going into specific characteristics of the oils themselves here.) All of my soaps are superfatted 5% and many contain goat's milk in addition. While home-made soaps have been around forever, the cottage industry has changed tremendously in the past year or so. I now regularly use exotics like Tamanu oil, Neem, Karanja, and Emu/Ostrich. These weren't readily available two years ago in quantities the home crafter could afford. As for comparisons, I doubt the testing industry made any distinction among CP type soaps, and all home made soaps are not equal. I always check out my competition, and I was just about floored the other day when I tried a home-made soap with what smelled like rancid peanut oil once wet; and besides stinking, it felt drying, which I refuse to accept in a CP soap. This soap was selling in a medium sized health food store. I would put up a massive argument if anyone compared my soap to this... Gillian In a message dated 3/18/04 2:16:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, AndreeTerry@... writes: >> classical bar soap >> >> I guess this is commercial beef fat soap? >> > > Hi Andree, I don't know, it could be. But you make a good point, we may be comparing apples and oranges when we look at the " classical bar soaps " and some of the veggie super-fatted soaps. I'm not aware of any studies that specifically state a comparison between the superfatted ones and the others. Who knows, maybe it makes a difference? There's certainly lots of anectodal evidence to support that it does Angie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 Hi Angie, I already buy from you and love your stuff. I agree that some of the new surfactants are wonderful, especially after battling trying to make an acceptable liquid soap (using potassium hydroxide) that was gentle but not sticky. I gave up after many months of frustration. The problem with the initial question is that it mentioned surfactants and chemicals. I actually tried to steer towards a commentary on classic 'lye' soap vs. detergents. As for chemicals, I am through talking to anyone who wants a product without chemicals, as EVERYTHING is composed of chemicals, both natural and synthetic. (I know no one on this list would make such a faux pas, but I hear it all the time...) But a comparison of 'soaps' is not sufficiently specific to make a valid argument. This is my list of ingredients for Ivory soap: sodium cocoyl isethionate paraffin sodium cocogylceryl ether glycerin water magnesium stearate stearic acid magnesium carbonate coconut acid sodium isethionate sodium sulfate sodium chloride magnesium laurate lauric acid sodium laurate trisodium etidronate masking fragrance (in a soap claiming to be unscented) PEG-90M titanium dioxide In comparing to my INCI files, I don't see any classic soap in this. How about Dove? Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate Stearic Acid Sodium Tallowate (beef tallow soap) Water Sodium Isethionate Coconut Acid Sodium Stearate Cocamidopropyl Betaine Sodium Cocoate or Sodium Palm Kernelate (coconut oil soap or palm kernel oil soap) Fragrance Sodium Chloride Titanium Dioxide Tetrasodium EDTA Trisodium Etidronate BHT Sodium Dodecylbenzenesulfonate I would never touch beef tallow in a body soap, it is too drying -- the industry uses it as a by-product of the beef industry, so it is very cheap. As for Coconut oil and PKO, they are standard ingredients in CP soap for hardness and lather, but rarely does one use them alone. As an example, I would add 25-35% olive to the coconut and PKO and probably some castor or shea or something else that is rich and distinctive (not going into specific characteristics of the oils themselves here.) All of my soaps are superfatted 5% and many contain goat's milk in addition. While home-made soaps have been around forever, the cottage industry has changed tremendously in the past year or so. I now regularly use exotics like Tamanu oil, Neem, Karanja, and Emu/Ostrich. These weren't readily available two years ago in quantities the home crafter could afford. As for comparisons, I doubt the testing industry made any distinction among CP type soaps, and all home made soaps are not equal. I always check out my competition, and I was just about floored the other day when I tried a home-made soap with what smelled like rancid peanut oil once wet; and besides stinking, it felt drying, which I refuse to accept in a CP soap. This soap was selling in a medium sized health food store. I would put up a massive argument if anyone compared my soap to this... Gillian In a message dated 3/18/04 2:16:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, AndreeTerry@... writes: >> classical bar soap >> >> I guess this is commercial beef fat soap? >> > > Hi Andree, I don't know, it could be. But you make a good point, we may be comparing apples and oranges when we look at the " classical bar soaps " and some of the veggie super-fatted soaps. I'm not aware of any studies that specifically state a comparison between the superfatted ones and the others. Who knows, maybe it makes a difference? There's certainly lots of anectodal evidence to support that it does Angie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 Hi Angie, I already buy from you and love your stuff. I agree that some of the new surfactants are wonderful, especially after battling trying to make an acceptable liquid soap (using potassium hydroxide) that was gentle but not sticky. I gave up after many months of frustration. The problem with the initial question is that it mentioned surfactants and chemicals. I actually tried to steer towards a commentary on classic 'lye' soap vs. detergents. As for chemicals, I am through talking to anyone who wants a product without chemicals, as EVERYTHING is composed of chemicals, both natural and synthetic. (I know no one on this list would make such a faux pas, but I hear it all the time...) But a comparison of 'soaps' is not sufficiently specific to make a valid argument. This is my list of ingredients for Ivory soap: sodium cocoyl isethionate paraffin sodium cocogylceryl ether glycerin water magnesium stearate stearic acid magnesium carbonate coconut acid sodium isethionate sodium sulfate sodium chloride magnesium laurate lauric acid sodium laurate trisodium etidronate masking fragrance (in a soap claiming to be unscented) PEG-90M titanium dioxide In comparing to my INCI files, I don't see any classic soap in this. How about Dove? Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate Stearic Acid Sodium Tallowate (beef tallow soap) Water Sodium Isethionate Coconut Acid Sodium Stearate Cocamidopropyl Betaine Sodium Cocoate or Sodium Palm Kernelate (coconut oil soap or palm kernel oil soap) Fragrance Sodium Chloride Titanium Dioxide Tetrasodium EDTA Trisodium Etidronate BHT Sodium Dodecylbenzenesulfonate I would never touch beef tallow in a body soap, it is too drying -- the industry uses it as a by-product of the beef industry, so it is very cheap. As for Coconut oil and PKO, they are standard ingredients in CP soap for hardness and lather, but rarely does one use them alone. As an example, I would add 25-35% olive to the coconut and PKO and probably some castor or shea or something else that is rich and distinctive (not going into specific characteristics of the oils themselves here.) All of my soaps are superfatted 5% and many contain goat's milk in addition. While home-made soaps have been around forever, the cottage industry has changed tremendously in the past year or so. I now regularly use exotics like Tamanu oil, Neem, Karanja, and Emu/Ostrich. These weren't readily available two years ago in quantities the home crafter could afford. As for comparisons, I doubt the testing industry made any distinction among CP type soaps, and all home made soaps are not equal. I always check out my competition, and I was just about floored the other day when I tried a home-made soap with what smelled like rancid peanut oil once wet; and besides stinking, it felt drying, which I refuse to accept in a CP soap. This soap was selling in a medium sized health food store. I would put up a massive argument if anyone compared my soap to this... Gillian In a message dated 3/18/04 2:16:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, AndreeTerry@... writes: >> classical bar soap >> >> I guess this is commercial beef fat soap? >> > > Hi Andree, I don't know, it could be. But you make a good point, we may be comparing apples and oranges when we look at the " classical bar soaps " and some of the veggie super-fatted soaps. I'm not aware of any studies that specifically state a comparison between the superfatted ones and the others. Who knows, maybe it makes a difference? There's certainly lots of anectodal evidence to support that it does Angie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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